You know, I'd never thought about the contrast between Robbie/Mary and Lucy/Jeremy. Good point. I know Lucy got pretty crazy and self centered in Seasons 6 and 7, but I think she came out of it in later seasons, and became more of a caring, giving person. I think she kind of patterned herself after Eric, which isn't a bad thing.

Also, I don't think Kevin did anything he didn't want to do, whether Lucy whined about it or not. He didn't propose to her any earlier, or get a new partner, or anything like that, even when Lucy went ballistic.

As for Ruthie, yea, in Season 11 she went off the rails. The selfishness was always there, though, if you ask me. She was the baby of the family (Yes, even after the twins came, she was still the baby of the family.), and the baby is always spoiled a little bit. However, up to Season 11, she always had a giving streak to go with her selfishness, even up to the point where she was the only one who could get Sandy out of the car at Thanksgiving in Season 10. All Eric told her was "Do what will make you feel good about yourself" And she couldn't feel good about herself being selfish and spiteful.

To be honest, I just can't stand Lucy. I try to like her character, because I think she's well-intentioned most of the time, but she's way too self-centered, whiny, and needy for my taste, and she's been that way since Season 1. It's always a "poor little me" act with her, it seems, and yet the show tries to portray her as this sweet, goody-goody type of girl. I was hoping she'd calm down after Kevin finally proposed to her and married her, but that didn't happen. She was a little better when she had Savannah, but then when she miscarried her twins, it started all over again, being all about her. There were so many times when I wanted to shake her and tell her to get over herself already. I mean, come on, she's not the only one who's got it rough. Plus, I never really felt like she "grew up" as an adult. By the series finale, she had a husband and a toddler and was talking with Kevin about having more kids, and she was still practically living with Mom and Dad!

Like I said, I try to like Lucy, but it's hard sometimes All things considered, though, Beverley Mitchell is a great actress and did an excellent job of portraying an over-the-top emotional young girl from pre-teenhood to mid-twenties (approximately). I could never pull off the emotional range that she did.

I understand your point of view, and I agree that Lucy is certainly not the only Camden kid who had selfish moments. Ruthie, for example, built quite an ugly name for herself in the final couple of seasons by being so self-absorbed. I think it's basically a matter of perspective when you consider Lucy's character. I think she always tried to be sweet and care about others, and when the chips were down, she was always there for her family and the community, and she probably grew up to be the kindest out of all her siblings. And you're right--when Eric got sick, nobody was more supportive or loving than Lucy. When Ruthie was acting the way she was about that whole thing, Lucy was the only one strong enough to tell her the truth--that she was being an ungrateful brat who needed to realize just how rare it was to have parents like Eric and Annie. I just feel that Lucy's overly emotional moments were way too overdone. It's understandable that some people just have that emotional quality in them, but with her, it was a little too much. At some point, she needed to grow up and realize that she was an adult with a family of her own, but she was willing to put Kevin's needs and wants on hold to leech onto her parents, like she couldn't let go, even though she had a toddler and was planning on having more children with her husband.

But I would have to say that after she moved on from the pain of her miscarriage, stopped alienating her husband and pulled herself together, she was a little better. I always liked it best when she could just let go and enjoy her life with Kevin and their baby daughter. That brought out the best in Lucy.

Truce Sorry I go on kind of long with some of my posts. It's always fun to have a good debate or general discussion when neither side gets too out of hand, which is what I like about this forum. I do like Lucy's character in certain ways. I like that she was a Camden kid who really didn't get into trouble and respected her parents. She was a true family girl--like me

You know, I have to agree with both of you.

I do think Lucy is selfish, and it shows more because after Simon left, and even before, she was the main girl on camera all the time.

When Mary had her 'issue' where she was being so selfish, she wasn't on camera a lot.

I'll tell you what, though, that Rose is the most selfish person I've EVER seen.

And, I'm seeing some of Ruthies, too. When Sandy is having the baby (which is where I'm up to now), that day should have been about her and Martin. Instead, Ruthie had to push herself right in, and make her parents let her go.

I also agree that Lucy does a lot for her family, friends and community, but she just has her moments. Know what I mean?

And, miscarrying (even though I'm not that far) is no peaches and cream. So, her issues then may very well stem from that.

I'm talking like this is a real person. Sometimes it's hard for me to remember, even though I'm almost 30, and know that there's no Santa Claus.

Yeah, I guess Rose's off-the-wall behavior was written for comedic effect, but boy, it drove me up a tree most of the time! I don't want to spoil it for people who haven't gotten that far in their 7th Heaven viewing yet, but I never really liked where Annie ended up in her attitude toward Rose. It wasn't her actual attitude toward her that bothered me; it's more of HOW she reached that point. In essence, it was interesting, but on the whole, it made no sense and seemed really forced. I love Annie's character, but she annoyed me a little in those final episodes of Season 10.

One of my favorite moments is when Simon is on the phone with Ruthie, telling her what an amazing "bird-like" singing voice Rose has, and Ruthie turns to Eric and says, "Rose can sing," and he says sarcastically, "Well, it's a glorious day!" It was so dead-on the way he said it--gets me every time!