Click Here

Forums: Ask the Editors: Product Spoofing: Allusion or Trivia?

 

Product spoof: where should it be categorized?

  • Avatar of Angus_Mac

    Angus_Mac

    [1]Oct 29, 2006
    • member since: 04/29/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 12,107
    One of the subs I received recently was a Trivia item concerning the spotting of the Sony logo, except that the word was spelled SANY. I've been putting related product logos (e.g. Boca-Cola, Cantury 13) for the show in Allusions, arguing that the company misspelled it on purpose, so I rejected it. But the person made a case that goofs should be in Trivia and that it isn't a reference to media (books, movies, tv programs) and pointed to the guidelines as being clear about it.

    Here's the verbiage from the Submission Guidelines.
    ----
    Trivia

    Trivia is any small detail or goof that might not be known to people who view an episode. Trivia is attached at the episode level, not the show level. It should be specific to what aired in the episode and not deal with off-camera events, which should be submitted in the "notes" form. A car license-plate number is trivia, and a producer walking off the set is a note. (Back)

    Allusions

    Allusions: An allusion is an indirect or passing reference to an existing form of media, be it to another TV program, a movie, a piece of music, or a book. Allusions are prevalent in television shows, and some shows, like The Family Guy, make extensive use of this kind of humor. When submitting allusions, always credit the original media being referenced with as much detail as possible. (Back)
    ----

    So where does it belong? :-/
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SabotFox

    SabotFox

    [2]Oct 29, 2006
    • member since: 02/02/05
    • level: 42
    • rank: General Lee
    • posts: 1,242
    I think this should go into Allusions. Even though it's misspelled, it's instantly recognized as the Sony logo. (Another example of this is the WacDonald's from Inu-yasha) It's an indirect reference to an existing form of media, in this case a logo, which is a form of advertising.

    You should have the submitter resubmit it as an Allusion, IMO.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of maritimer00

    maritimer00

    [3]Oct 29, 2006
    • member since: 06/07/05
    • level: 70
    • rank: Movin' On Up
    • posts: 4,825
    I would say Trivia. An image or a name uttered/visible that refers to something corporate or a celebrity, by definiton, goes there.

    I do think Trivia and Allusion definitions need more clarification though for all editors as I think there is a great deal of confusion for stuff like this that falls in the grey areas....
    Edited on 10/29/2006 8:32pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of studog2961

    studog2961

    [4]Oct 29, 2006
    • member since: 07/19/05
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 8,733

    My vote: Allusion~

    IMO it is not a goof it is misspelled for the sake of copyright infringement, Sony is a registered trademark. Therefore IMO it is not really a goof since it was done for a tactical/legal reason.

    Had it not been easily recognized as a company logo then I would say sure add it as Trivia.

    I agree that there is a huge gray area…and staff input would be appreciated on this.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of khaki_dojo

    khaki_dojo

    [5]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 04/23/05
    • level: 57
    • rank: Mr Biggles
    • posts: 961
    I probably would have put it in trivia, but now I'm thinking about it. In the case of Sany, I don't know if I would think too much about it (mainly because I would just consider 'Sany' a brand name existing within the realm of the series), but suddenly I started thinking about an old Treehouse of Horror episode of The Simpsons where a character has The Shinning rather than The Shining (and they actually joke on-air about copyright issues). In that case, it would clearly be an allusion ... even though the fact that he has it is trivia. There does still seem to be a huge gray area as to what is what. I finally gave up on a lot of things and went with what it ultimately is. If it is a production note, it goes in notes -- no exceptions. (I know there are editors who want production notes in trivia, but I just can't do it.) The allusions still trip me up from time to time because sometimes there's something that deserves to be there put doesn't really fit, so I usually take a few minutes to find a way that it does fit if I really want it in there.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of layle1

    layle1

    [6]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 05/22/06
    • level: 70
    • rank: Movin' On Up
    • posts: 2,778
    I believe it depends on the context. In khaki's example there's a line of dialogue that easily converts to allusion. If the item is stand alone - no line or obvious reference to it in the episode - I think a mention in trivia might be more appropriate. Now we're into that gray area... but a blurb such as "the stereo on the shelf reads SANY, possibly a legal dodge around SONY" or something like that could be used. IMO this falls under the "small detail" part of the trivia definition given.

    An allusion, to me, requires a specific reference. Usually this is dialogue, but sometimes an action will also make the association. If it's just part of the props it's significance is minimal to nothing. The only time I don't have something from the episode attached to an allusion is when it's an episode title.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jekyll

    jekyll

    [7]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 05/24/02
    • level: 85
    • rank: 85. Urkel
    • posts: 12,522

    Here's my vote: it's nothing. If it's not a clear parody, but just a tweak in a name for some copyright/trademark reason, that's such a convention in the television industry that I don't feel it belongs being mentioned in the guides here at all. Just like rear-view mirrors being removed from cars so you can see the passengers better—it's not a goof or a flub, it's just something commonly done in the television industry.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dju010

    dju010

    [8]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 06/17/05
    • level: 88
    • rank: Punky Brewster
    • posts: 12,022
    First: I basically agree with jekyll.

    Second: If it is important to the story, it clearly belongs to the Allusion section, since it is not a goof! It is made intentional - a goof is baiscally an accident.

    So such things are just a reference to the real world and would be an alluison, when it even has to be mentioned / is important.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of layle1

    layle1

    [9]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 05/22/06
    • level: 70
    • rank: Movin' On Up
    • posts: 2,778
    But trivia isn't always goofs. The "small detail" portion of the guideline encompasses things like the home address of the characters, contents of a note briefly shown, that type of thing. If it's prominent but not referenced I think it could fit into the trivia section.

    That said, since this is all a beastly gray area we're wading through, the editor would certainly be within bounds to deny if he/she didn't think it was important. It's just if he/she agrees with the submitter on its importance, then a placement in trivia would be the answer, IMO.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dju010

    dju010

    [10]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 06/17/05
    • level: 88
    • rank: Punky Brewster
    • posts: 12,022
    layle1 wrote:
    But trivia isn't always goofs. The "small detail" portion of the guideline encompasses things like the home address of the characters, contents of a note briefly shown, that type of thing. If it's prominent but not referenced I think it could fit into the trivia section.

    That said, since this is all a beastly gray area we're wading through, the editor would certainly be within bounds to deny if he/she didn't think it was important. It's just if he/she agrees with the submitter on its importance, then a placement in trivia would be the answer, IMO.


    But then you would have to write something like this:
    In this episode electronic equipment is shown labeled with the brand Sany.

    So that would be the trivia item. Not trivia worth in my eyes.
    It isn't a goof, so you can't put it in as that.

    The only possibility I see, is that you write something like this:
    The electronical equipment shown is labeled with the brand Sany, what is a alteration of the real world brand Sony.

    Or something like that, and that would be an Allusion.
    Again, is it really necessary, but you can add it...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Gilmoreism

    Gilmoreism

    [11]Oct 30, 2006
    • member since: 07/18/06
    • level: 37
    • rank: Cylon
    • posts: 2,060
    Yeah I think that the allusion needs to be edited to include "Pop Culture" references and brand names. Because I think that if a show referenced OJ Simpson, or Paris Hilton... then this isn't really trivia it's an allusion but it isn't a show movie, or TV show... AS far as the Sany thing... I don't see how it's important unless it is prominent. But if I was going to put it somewhere I would put it as an allusion because it isn't an actual Sony VCR... If he had a particular model of a Sony TV/VCR then that would be Trivia, but because it is misspelled to me that's an allusion.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.