Forums: Downloading Television: is downloading TV shows legal(e.x. itunes)

 
  • Avatar of priest17

    priest17

    [1]Apr 8, 2006
    • member since: 07/29/05
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 45
    Emm so the question is if I download a episode of smallville or something with a bittorrent is it legal? Actually is taping TV shows legal? It does kinda cantcel out the point of DVDs
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of mikecanada

    mikecanada

    [2]Apr 8, 2006
    • member since: 03/27/04
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 847
    It depends on were you live
    If you you live in the U.S then it is illegal
    but in most other countrys it is not illegal
    Edited on 04/08/2006 5:37pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [3]Apr 8, 2006
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 101
    • rank: Grand Poobah
    • posts: 23,876
    Making a copy for personal use is allowed. Making copies for hundreds of people without the owner's permission is not "personal use."
    Edited on 04/08/2006 8:11pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ruthieluver77

    ruthieluver77

    [4]Apr 8, 2006
    • member since: 07/06/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 3,451
    u also can not sell tapes, that is illegal.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of LSyd

    LSyd

    [5]Apr 9, 2006
    • member since: 11/24/05
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 4,418
    mikecanada wrote:
    but in most other countrys it is not illegal

    That's a bit misleading. Most other countries have variations in what is legal and what isn't with regards to copyright material. In Canada, it is not illegal to download the file as long as you don't distribute it. This would effectively mean that Bittorrent is illegal there, because you upload the file as well as download it.

    In Australia it's certainly illegal. Technically, it's even illegal to record a broadcast show - the only exemptions for making a copy of copyrighted material relate to personal study and criticism/review (and a few other ones that I can't think of right now).

    In the UK, the exceptions are non-commercial research and criticism/review.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of DsSGame

    DsSGame

    [6]Apr 11, 2006
    • member since: 02/08/05
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 1
    It's not illegal if you are paying for them. Itunes is well known everywhere..

    If it was then you would think that iTunes would be shut down just like WinMX.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of LSyd

    LSyd

    [7]Apr 11, 2006
    • member since: 11/24/05
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 4,418
    DsSGame wrote:
    It's not illegal if you are paying for them. Itunes is well known everywhere..

    That's wrong. Even if you pay for them, it's illegal if the person who is making copies and selling them doesn't have permission from the copyright owner. Itunes has permission from the people who made the shows they sell, so it's legal in their case.

    For instance, if I recorded a TV show, started making copies and selling it, in most places those copies would be illegal even though the people paid for them.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of VincentXtreme

    VincentXtreme

    [8]Apr 12, 2006
    • member since: 07/18/03
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 5
    If it is through iTunes and the network is promoting the download and you are paying for it, then it is legal. Why else would networks like Disney and Comedy Central advertise it?
    If you are downloading them through WinMX and then giving them to thousands of people, yeah, that's illegal.
    Here's a question though: if you download a TV show episode that you could've just used a VCR to tape while it was playing live, is it illegal?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of LSyd

    LSyd

    [9]Apr 13, 2006
    • member since: 11/24/05
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 4,418
    VincentXtreme wrote:
    Here's a question though: if you download a TV show episode that you could've just used a VCR to tape while it was playing live, is it illegal?

    It would have the same legal status as if you downloaded without it being broadcast. You're only able to make a copy of the original broadcast, not someone else's copy of the broadcast (which might even have the commercials taken out).

    Think of it this way - if that legal, there wouldn't be a market for the DVDs of the TV shows because most people would download them instead (since most people would have been able to tape them if they wanted to). Because the networks are still able to make money from them, it normally wouldn't be allowed (except in Canada).
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dju010

    dju010

    [10]Apr 13, 2006
    • member since: 06/17/05
    • level: 88
    • rank: Punky Brewster
    • posts: 5,715
    I disagree. The people buy DVDs even though they've seen films or shows in TV. People are just to passive to do anything by them self, so they buy the DVD.
    And as far as I know I think it's legal to make a copy of a video someone else recorded. The problem is indeed that with the internet there's no personal relation to the person you copy from and that you share with thousands or even mor people. That's illegal. The entire legal thing isn't really finalised yet.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of LSyd

    LSyd

    [11]Apr 13, 2006
    • member since: 11/24/05
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 4,418
    dju010 wrote:
    I disagree. The people buy DVDs even though they've seen films or shows in TV. People are just to passive to do anything by them self, so they buy the DVD.
    And as far as I know I think it's legal to make a copy of a video someone else recorded. The problem is indeed that with the internet there's no personal relation to the person you copy from and that you share with thousands or even mor people. That's illegal. The entire legal thing isn't really finalised yet.

    In the US, recording a show falls under the category "copying for personal use". This only refers to time-shifting (i.e. recording the show to watch later), space-shifting (i.e. copying your music onto an MP3 player) and personal research.

    So technically, if you are going to record a TV show, you're not actually supposed to hold onto the tape and watch it an unspecified number of times in the long-term. They're never going to really do anything about that right now, but it's technically illegal, as would be copying the recording for another person (because that wouldn't constitute "personal use"). But in some places the laws differ - technically I'm not even supposed to record a show at all, but nobody enforces that and they're likely to change the law to allow it in the near future anyway.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [12]Apr 15, 2006
    • member since: 05/24/02
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 11,760
    The only legitimate downloading services I'm aware of are iTunes and AOL's new service, In2TV. It offers streaming video of entire episodes as well as downloads of higher-quality video. They are all Time Warner shows so they already have the rights to them.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of mikecanada

    mikecanada

    [13]Apr 16, 2006
    • member since: 03/27/04
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 847
    there is also google video
    Edited on 04/16/2006 10:46pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of marvelfan89

    marvelfan89

    [14]Apr 22, 2006
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 39
    • rank: Fonzerelli
    • posts: 2,677

    DsSGame wrote:
    It's not illegal if you are paying for them. Itunes is well known everywhere.. If it was then you would think that iTunes would be shut down just like WinMX.

    A correction here. Only Winmx.com shut down via the owners but the software and service is still very much alive with millions of users still using it via a workaround with patches and so forth.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of marvelfan89

    marvelfan89

    [15]Apr 22, 2006
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 39
    • rank: Fonzerelli
    • posts: 2,677

    LSyd wrote:
    So technically, if you are going to record a TV show, you're not actually supposed to hold onto the tape and watch it an unspecified number of times in the long-term. They're never going to really do anything about that right now, but it's technically illegal, as would be copying the recording for another person (because that wouldn't constitute "personal use"). But in some places the laws differ - technically I'm not even supposed to record a show at all, but nobody enforces that and they're likely to change the law to allow it in the near future anyway.

    Recording a show and watching it an unlimited number of times via your personal home is not technically illegal, , if that's the case thousands of Americans have committed a crime for the past forty years.And actually holding on to the tape to rewatch it is exactly why the VCR was built for constant playback just like with digital cameras , DVD players, and camcorders. The medium has changed but the function is still the same, constant playback for viewing.  However as others have stated this all pretty sketchy and there doesn’t seem to be a law or people enforcing until we come up to the area of making copies which is an entirely different ballgame obviously  

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [16]Apr 22, 2006
    • member since: 05/24/02
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 11,760

    Actually there is a law. It's called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) passed by the U.S. Congress. Some sections of the law place restrictions on the creation and use of digital technology that can be used to enable copyright violations.

    The European Union passed a similar law in 2001. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the Sony Betamax case that VCRs were legal. That's why Americans haven't been in violation of the law for the last "40 years" by taping shows. The DMCA was passed because it was recognized that digital recordings don't degrade each time they are transferred the way that videotaped recordings do.

    The Supreme Court and other federal courts have handed down more recent decisions in this area. The cases involving Napster and (MGM v.) Grokster are some of the important ones. If anyone is interested in what the law is, it would be worth reading about these two cases and the DMCA.

    Many of you may have heard about the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) lawsuits against private individuals suspected of making copyrighted audio material available on peer-to-peer networks. Though the percentage of people using the networks that get sued is relatively low, getting sued can be an expensive proposition. Most of the cases settle for thousands of dollars. It's likely that TV and movie studios will look at the RIAA's actions as an example of a possible enforcement strategy as more and more people get broadband and begin sharing TV shows and movies online. You can complain about it and say it's unfair but that won't really help you if you get sued. A judge or jury isn't seriously going to listen to someone whine about how they deserve to get anything for free. You won't go to jail but think about trying to explain to your parents why they have to pay $5,000 in a settlement because of your illegal file trading activity.
    Edited on 04/22/2006 4:36am
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of marvelfan89

    marvelfan89

    [17]Apr 22, 2006
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 39
    • rank: Fonzerelli
    • posts: 2,677

    Haha did your homework  I forgot all about Beta but it does make sense otherwise no one would have been able to use a vcr for so long. Most people will continue to use P2P programs nonetheless.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of LSyd

    LSyd

    [18]Apr 22, 2006
    • member since: 11/24/05
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 4,418
    marvelfan89 wrote:

    Haha did your homework  I forgot all about Beta but it does make sense otherwise no one would have been able to use a vcr for so long. Most people will continue to use P2P programs nonetheless.


    Well, here in Australia it's technically illegal to tape a TV show for any reason (except if you only tape 10% or one episode for private study, review etc.) because the law hasn't made any exceptions in the case of recording a broadcast (but the copyright laws are expected to have an overhaul later in the year to allow this).

    The reason that VCRs (and other recording devices) are available and legal here is that when the TV stations went to court over it, the court decided that although the VCRs could be used to break the law, they also have legitimate uses and therefore it is the responsibility of the VCR's owner to make sure that they do not use it in order to break the law. Of course, there is a complete lack of interest in enforcing this section of the law nowadays and it's generally acceptable provided you don't distribute the recording to other people (although there are some exceptions). Furthermore, in some cases, the networks do encourage the recording of their programs (the main pay TV company is now offering DVRs).

    A similar decision was recently made for PS2 modchips, where it was decided that although they had uses which encouraged illegal activity (allowing the console to play pirated games), they also had legal uses (playing imported games) and so it is not illegal to have the modchip, only to use it in a manner which breaks a law.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [19]Apr 23, 2006
    • member since: 05/24/02
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 11,760
    marvelfan89 wrote:

    Haha did your homework I forgot all about Beta but it does make sense otherwise no one would have been able to use a vcr for so long. Most people will continue to use P2P programs nonetheless.


    That may be true but that's not a good thing. Advertising revenue supports almost all television programming (with pay channels like HBO being the key exceptions). If P2P use destroys this revenue model, there isn't going to be much free TV in the future. Or else the advertising will be completely blended into the programming. For example, we might see something like "The Nokia X-Files" and have Mulder talk about his NOKIA cell phone every 10 minutes or "Proctor & Gamble's CSI" featuring extensive discussion of the latest cleaning agents from P&G as used in certain cases on the show. Either that or shows will only appear on pay channels or HD-DVD/Blu-Ray only. After all, who is going to spend millions of dollars on a television show if they have no hope of even breaking even?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of StarlightMaker

    StarlightMaker

    [20]Apr 27, 2006
    • member since: 05/25/05
    • level: 33
    • rank: Borg Queen
    • posts: 1,185
    Okay... what about when you upload/download a video that has lossed all it's lisences in North America and you upload/download in the US? Is it okay then?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.