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    • FringeFanatic Mar 17, 2014

      Damn, show. DAMN! Just when I start to think I'm completely desensitized an episode like this comes along and smacks me in the face with a tidal wave of the feels. I thought after overcoming the unprecedented carnage that was The Red Wedding that I was now impervious to television related shock and sadness. I was like "Bring it on, TV! My heart is forever hardened to your fictional torments!"

      Ha! How naive I was. Also, apparently killing thousands of people in creatively disturbing ways (I'm an artist with an RPG) while playing Grand Theft Auto 5 DOESN'T turn you into a murdering sociopath. Thanks a lot, game! Now I have to... feel.

      Oh, and feel I did. But I DID NOT cry. I'm a man and us men suppress our feelings like the emotionally evolved gender that we are... Ah hell, that's complete bullshit. This was basically me after the episode:

      Brighton Sharbino (Lizzie) and Kyla Kenedy (Mika) are two incredibly talented young actresses and should be commended for a phenomenal performance. This one ranks right up there in tragic TV deaths and those two girls made it possible. Well done, Brighton and Kyla.

      The entire episode was a sublime example of gut wrenching tragedy. From the very beginning (similar to Arya staring achingly, desperately and longingly at the Twins) I felt that eerily familiar sense of impending dread. And just like GoT, there were signs of the deaths to come. Lizzie playing with that desiccated zombie was a foreboding flash forward and a retrospectively telling intro. Mika mentioning early on that Lizzie wasn't afraid of mutilated rabbits. Carol saying that Sophia "didn't have a mean bone in her body", then saying the exact same thing about Mika. The tempting possibility of happiness and settling down. And the overall theme of the episode reminding us of the theme of the show. All dark clouds gathering before a terrible storm.

      The creators have repeatedly stated that TWD has never been about the zombies, walkers, biters, lurkers etc., but that it was always about the people still alive and what it takes to survive in this new, harsher world.

      This show constantly probes and asks the audience certain questions: What would you be willing to do to survive? How far could you go? How many could you kill? How many could you leave behind? Would you retain your humanity in a world that breeds ugliness and mistrust? Are you a realist? A pragmatist? An optimist? Are you a fighter? A loner? A follower? A leader? What are you? Who are you?

      These questions are intrinsically tied to the very nature of the zombie apocalypse. It pushes us into introspection and forces us to confront the darkness of our own humanity. Because we all know it's not the zombies that are the biggest threat in this apocalypse.

      What fan among us hasn't made our own internal decisions as we've watched The Walking Dead unfold? It's one of the morbidly voyeuristic aspects of this show. With every death we can ask ourselves another very simple question: Would I have done it differently?

      Lizzie was a mentally ill little girl who had an inability to differentiate between zombies and people. Her mind was broken from reality and she had become a danger to herself and others. She wasn't evil. She didn't deserve to die. Nor did the beautiful and innocent Mika. Yet the question is still posed to the audience, hanging in the air, urging us to answer:

      Would you have killed Lizzie?

      Hey, no one said the zombie apocalypse was easy.


      - Considering the separation of the main group into several sub-groups, I can't believe they didn't have a some sort of set rally point if everything went to shit. That is just basic stuff. And don't even get me started on how everyone should have a serviceable melee weapon on them at ALL times! That's like the 4th rule in my zombie plan.

      - I've read that more than a few people haven't particularly cared for the split story lines, but I would argue that even though at times it's been slow and tedious, it's also greatly helped define each main character in a way that could not have been done in a group setting. Think about everything we've learned since the prison. The character progression has never been stronger.

      - Where the hell is Beth?! She better be okay. Oh, and are there any Darryl and Beth shippers in the house?

      - I was watching the Talking Dead and wondering when Rick became a punching bag. He was referred to as a "farmer" several times and generally derided. First of all, most of the main characters on the show would already be dead if Rick hadn't united them. He saved them time and time again, but now he's just a farmer who's weak and indecisive? Fuck that narrative! He's proven he can make the tough decisions and was right to banish Carol. Just because Tyreese forgave her doesn't mean he would have also done so under less emotionally devastating circumstances. Screw off Rick haters.

      - I haven't been on in a while, so I'll close by saying that it's good to be back. Oh, and that Maggie and Glenn have become one my favourite television relationships. That scene when Maggie realized Glenn wasn't on the bus was sooooooooo good!

    • MichaelMegalo Mar 19, 2014

      I just love it when I come to and scroll down directly to the comments to find realistic and so spot on reviews of the show I love like this one! Good job Fringefanatic, keep it coming!

    • FringeFanatic Mar 19, 2014

      That's so nice of you to say! You must have had to scroll WAY down. Thanks, man.

    • chadwulf Mar 18, 2014

      Also has anyone mentioned the ending? The flashback voiceover of Carol talking about change. Felt like the message was Lizzie and Mika did change her, for the better.. somewhat.

    • chadwulf Mar 17, 2014

      Oh damn FringeFanatic, you basically did Tim's job for him! XD

      Fantastic episode, strongest of the season even.
      I was not expecting Lizzie to be killed off so quickly, but I knew it had to come eventually. Of course Carol the realist brought that little plot point straight home so we could have a fully emotionally charged then spent episode.
      No loose ends, everything came to a head and that was just such a relief.

    • FringeFanatic Mar 18, 2014


    • Rolamb Mar 17, 2014

      Good to have you back FF, comments like this add to the site!

    • FringeFanatic Mar 18, 2014

      Thank you! Coming from a super contributor like you that means a lot.

    • headclub Mar 17, 2014

      Lizzie had to go. Plain & simple. I was just questioning if the show would have the balls to shoot such a scene. They did. And I was genuinely shocked....

      Go Carol btw. MVP of said episode. I was getting restless, I admit it...but the last 10 minutes were iveting!!

    • FringeFanatic Mar 18, 2014


    • No1Slayerette Mar 17, 2014

      Glad to have you back @FringeFanatic, we missed you dearly!

      Excellent point about The Walking Dead's ability to raise thought-provoking questions. Many have recently voiced their concern about 'where' the show is headed plot-wise (myself included), but the writers have always been adamant, like you mentioned, that the series it about the characters and what they do to survive and how it may or may not change them for better or worse. While I personally prefer plot-driven stories, I think episodes like this prove that the series can be excellent without the need to focus on plot - as long as they continue to raise introspective questions for its characters, and therefore it's audiences, because they really have the profound ability to suck you into the show and really make you think.

      Interestingly enough, the biggest question for me this episode wasn't would I have killed Lizzie, because I know I would have, and I probably would have done it as soon as I had the gun out of her hands to (none of that anxious and painful waiting). Maybe I'm heartless, but I think that's what I'd do in that situation. Anyway, my biggest question would have been: Would I want to stay at the grove, or continue on to Terminus? That would be a much tougher decision for me because the house offered them a lot of things that could have lead to a stable future, something that they may not be able to find again, but the allure of a larger and stronger group, with possibly an even more provisions and shelter would seriously make me think long and hard about whether I would decide to stay or not.

      Anyway, you raised all these philosophical questions @FringeFanatic, but you sneakily never answered them yourself... So would you have killed Lizzie?

    • FringeFanatic Mar 18, 2014

      Hey, thanks Slayerette! It seems like every time I return from a hiatus you're right there to welcome me back. You're awesome.

      As for the show, and the question of killing Lizzie or not, I believe it had to be done. Lizzie would have killed Judith if she had more time and would have been an ongoing danger to Carol and Tyreese, as well. Her particular kind of mental illness almost made it inevitable she was not long for this world, and I think Carol did the right and humane thing (just leaving here alone would have only served as a longer more painful death sentence).

      One interesting point another commenter brought up was that if Carol and Tyreese were true survivalists, they would have killed Judith and kept Lizzie for her headshot skills. Even though I disagree (as Carol pointed out, Lizzie could kill them in their sleep) it's these kind of morally repugnant decisions that make this show a continually fascinating take on how far people would go to survive.

      Now onto The Grove vs. Terminus debate, I've always been of the mind in the zombie apocalypse that there is strength in numbers. The Grove had several attractive qualities and I'm quite sure it could have supported them, but so did The Farm, and The Prison. What if a horde came through? What if a marauding band of rapists and murderers (a la Darryl's current group) showed up? If any problems arose two adults and a finite amount of ammo probably wouldn't be adequate for survival.

      I mean, look at what the Governor did in Woodbury. He had created a bonafide civilization and they were going strong until his psychopathic ways and Rick's group fucked it all up. I think TWD has demonstrated that the more people you can surround yourself with the better chance you have at surviving the perils of this apocalypse.

      (P.S. If you've ever read World War Z, READ, not watched the movie, because that was a pile of crap, then you'd look at TWD in a completely different light. First of all, I don't think the entire structures of civilization would have broken down with zombies so slow and meandering. Humanity would have won out. Also, if these people would just plan better they could beat back the apocalypse with a vengeance. Ah well, I guess it's easy to be a Monday morning apocalypse survivor.)

    • Rolamb Mar 18, 2014

      As you I like to believe there still is a possible future humankind, although it maybe some time until they reach that point. Too many think they're just doomed and it's only a matter of time. See my short comment discussion with fujin_mage a few comments above.

    • smorbie Mar 17, 2014

      Hey, slayerette, my dark-souled-friend. I was looking for your reaction. I knew you would have put her down without thinking about it, since you earlier were in favor of smothering the baby.

    • LeePierce Mar 17, 2014

      The house did have a lot to offer, but it also served as a reminder of what they had to do. Most families choose to not stay in the same house if one of their kids die, this was the same thing.

    • smorbie Mar 17, 2014

      I also think Tyreese didn't want to be alone with Carol anymore, not because he was afraid of her. I think he just wants to be away from her

    • LeePierce Mar 19, 2014

      I wouldn't blame him, either. Getting hit with the news that you're trekking with the one person responsible for the death of your girlfriend has gotta be hard to take. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't fully forgiven her yet, he just said that he did because everyone needed a moment of civility.