12 Monkeys Season 1 Finale Review: May the Circle Be Broken

12 Monkeys S01E13: "Arms of Mine"

12 Monkeys has played an interesting game with us all season long, prompting the interminable debate about the little blink of existence we call life and the push and pull between fate and free will. But the series cheated a bit by playing everything as fate even when the characters believed they were acting of their own accord. Oh, you shot that guy? Well, you were SUPPOSED to shoot that guy.

The evidence was right there in Cole's kickass opening voiceover: "Where are you right now? Somewhere warm? Safe? Next to someone you love? Now what if all that was gone, and the only thing you could do was survive? You would, right? You'd try. You'd do things, horrible things. Until you have that last thing you have left: yourself. But what if you could take it back? All of it. A reset switch. You'd hit it, right? You'd have to. Even if you didn't want to. Because sometimes the choice isn't even yours, it's fate."

The basic idea is that everything that's transpired during 12 Monkeys' first season is part of a master plan, and each step Cole thinks he's taken toward stopping the plague has actually been a step toward starting the plague. That's how it was, that's how it's always been, and that's how it always will be. Everyone is being corralled like rats in a maze. While previous episodes have hinted at this, "Arms of Mine" hit it home like a ton of bricks to the old noggin, as if every one of 12 Monkeys's characters has been following a set of predetermined tracks instead making their own decisions. Or maybe not! Maybe one of those characters jumped the tracks. Way to spoil the meticulously crafted plan, Cole!

Let's have dessert first and begin at the end of the episode, because that's where the critical moment occurred. Olivia had just said there was nothing more powerful than fate, as her cabal's plan to keep the time circle unbroken was going smoothly: Ramse's body would be found in Raritan National Labs with the early version of the time-travel machine, and he'd be identified as his big-time investor cover Ethan Seckie. Cole would disappear into obscurity. And Olivia and her pals would hide in a bunker in Colorado to wait the plague out.

But just as Olivia spoke about fate, the camera lingered on Cole as he paused, backtracked to Ramse, and carried his frenemy out of the Raritan Lab. That wasn't supposed to happen, according to Olivia. And that was after Cole sent Cassie—who was suffering from a gunshot wound, and taking it like a champ, I might add—forward to 2043, where Jones would be able to save her. Was sending Cassie to the future also not supposed to happen, according to Olivia's plans? Did Cole's free will intervene? Did Cole break the chain of fate that everyone was supposed to abide by? And if so, when? It's impossible to identify the exact moment in which Cole exited the circle Olivia was harping about all episode—if that is indeed what he did—but we should try to pinpoint it anyway. It's part of the fun of watching a show as "interactive" as 12 Monkeys, even if it's pure guesswork.

In a scene just before the gun showdown, Cole had his piece drawn on Ramse and Ramse told him to pull the trigger. Was Cole supposed to shoot him then? Did Cole's refusal to pull the trigger alter what was supposed to happen, allowing Cassie to enter the standoff and join the gunfight herself when she wasn't meant to be there? It would seem, for some reason or another, that Cole found a way to depart from the destiny that had been set for him. Or was it Cassie who modified things? Ramse seemed content to have Cole shoot him ("Atari," as in, it was the only move left), but he flipped his lid when his security man aimed his gun at Cassie, begging him not to fire. Did Ramse tell Cole to send Cassie ahead to 2043 so she wouldn't die there with him, messing with Olivia's plans and hurting his son's chances of existing in the future? Another detail to remember: 2017 Cassie—the one who told Cole they'd been through so much together—is still out there somewhere, ready to give Cole the address to Dr. Jones' house in 2015 so that 2015 Cassie can use it to save Cole's life after he splinters from 1987 Tokyo. But did sending Cassie to 2043 break that chain, too? So many questions to ponder.

There's still a lot happening on 12 Monkeys that's way above my pay grade (or I've been defeated by all this complex mythology), and the show isn't in any rush to answer our pressing questions. The red forest? I have no idea what's up with that, or what it meant when Cassie was walking through that indoor hydroponics display of red-leafed ivy. Did Aaron actually die in that fire? It would seem so, but the popular TV rule of, "If you didn't see him die and you didn't see a body, you shouldn't assume he died" definitely applies.

And what do you make of those chalky hooded men? At one point, their leader said to Jones, "We represent the future, Madame. We do not wish to be relegated to the past." That would appear to support my theory from last week about them being time travelers from beyond 2043—or perhaps they operate outside of time and space, like the Observers from Fringe (same complexion, too!). However, camera edits made it seem like these 12 men (yes, there are 12, despite only 11 showing up on camera last week) were the babies of "the coming of the 12" that Olivia was so excited about in 2015. Although they also looked much older than 28 years old. Are they the 12 Monkeys? Gosh, it's hard to say no.

In the final moments of the finale, we saw Jennifer Goines—who acted deliciously wacky all episode long—jetsetting around the globe with the intent to disperse the virus. The scene marked another deviation between 12 Monkeys and its source material, where Dr. Peters (and not Brad Pitt's character) was revealed in the last few frames to be the one who spread the virus all over the world. The show is implying that Jennifer was working with Olivia's group for at least a while; Jennifer was also telling someone, probably Olivia, that, "It's done, he knows," which could mean she gave Cole the information that would lead him to Ramse at Raritan National Laboratory.

Finally, we have to consider the element of camera trickery. In a previous episode, camerawork strongly suggested that Ramse was the Witness, but in "Arms of Mine," he was like, "Whaaa? I ain't no Witness." All it confirmed was that Cole believed Ramse was the Witness, not that Ramse was the actual Witness. Can we trust any of 12 Monkeys' camera cues? Are those 12 pale dudes the grown-up versions of the babies? Was Jennifer really spreading the virus? Did Aaron actually die? At this point, no answer would surprise me.

This is how "Ams of Mine," and really the entirety of 12 Monkeys' first season, made me feel:

Good lord, thinking about this stuff makes me want to crawl into the brains of series creators Terry Matalas and Travis Fickett and dig around in search of answers. I was hoping for a finale that would fill in some of the blanks of 12 Monkeys' complex story, but "Arms of Mine" managed to avoid doling out answers while still being an entertaining hour that sucked me in even further. While it's possible that the series is spiraling too far out of control to present anything coherent when all is said and done, so far, it's shown a remarkable capability for tethering its mythology to the story it's trying to tell. 12 Monkeys may not always be clear or straightforward, but Season 1 was incredibly compelling; if only we could jump forward to 2016 and start watching Season 2 right away...


NOT QUITE 12 NOTES

– Buh-bye, Aaron! You tried so hard to save Cassie's life that you got yourself killed.

– "He made his choice" was muttered twice, once by Cole as Aaron was about to burn to death while pinned under the shelf, and once by Cassie, when she was about to shoot Ramse. Who's actually making the choices, though?

– Dang! Kirk Acevedo was intense in this episode! He's one of the more underrated actors working today.

– Who was the Dr. Jones fella we met in 2015? Katerina Jones' husband was out of the picture by then, and that guy definitely wasn't her dad. So who was it? And was he the one sending ivy into the future since he could only send things into the future?


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Jul 02, 2016
As far as when Cole subverted fate, this is one case in which I choose to believe the camera work and assume that it was that moment in the hallway when he chose to turn around and save his "brother". I think other characters are just following their pre-ordained paths, but that he is the one person able to change fate which is why he was fated (hmm, contradicting myself) to be the one to be sent back by the machine in the first place. On the other hand, as others have said below, perhaps he didn't subvert fate, perhaps either the Witness didn't KNOW that Ramse survived, or LIED to his followers. (Speaking of the Witness, many were theorizing last year that Cassie might be the Witness, but I realized while re-watching that his followers call him a "he" a couple times in earlier episodes, so I don't think so.)

The camera work did STRONGLY suggest that the 12 babies grew up to be the 12 pale dudes, and this is another time that I choose to believe it until we see evidence to the contrary.

Considering that I no longer think Ramse or Cassie can be the witness, nor Cole (no proof, just don't think so), and since I believe the Witness to be male, and also to be someone from the future timeline who has access to the machine, my current guess is Marcus, because he's the male character we have left who has been in on all of the nitty gritty details. It could also be Deacon, as he would be a great bad guy and has reason to keep the future as it is, but someone would have to fill him in on all of last season's happenings in terms of Cole's missions, so it seems less likely.

Finally, it may be Aaron, though I was CERTAIN he was dead, since we heard him screaming as he burned to death. But he's another that knows the necessary details (and could have read newspapers/done some research to find out about 2015 events he wasn't present for). I don't want it to be him, because I was happy to see him go, but if he did survive he's going to be an extremely disfigured burn victim, which might make him seem more frightening, and make him considerably more bitter and angry. Still, Olivia seemed to be much more interested in using Aaron to get to Cassie, and less interested in Aaron himself, when she was arranging for Cassie's kidnapping, so it seems unlikely. We've seen how she acts when she's talking to someone actually important to her plans (like Jennifer and Ramse).

Season 1 of 12 Monkeys was AMAZING, the most I've enjoyed anything Sci-Fi in years, and I can't wait for the second season, though without spoiling myself I have discovered that a lot of people are saying the second season isn't as good. I guess I'll find out. . . now.
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Jul 07, 2015
The hooded folk are the 12 babies in the finale, eventually I assume being underground changes them?
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Jun 03, 2015
The show is a mess. The writers appear to be writing it on the fly as it were. It bears no relationship to the movie at all other than the name.. The emperor is not wearing any clothes.
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Jul 15, 2015
So, you wanted to watch the movie spread into 13 episodes? With the same story, characters, begining, end, etc... Why would you want that?
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Apr 25, 2015
Well, I finally got to watch the finale and I must say, I'm somewhat speechless. So what just happened? Here is what I think:
1. Aaron is dead (even though we didn't see him die.) it's hard to imagine he got out. (Btw, I won't miss him.)
2. Cassie sent to the future. I guess she will get patched up and sent back to 2015 down the road, if those 12 hoodies let her (since they now control the time machine).
3. The 12 hoodies In 2043 i believe were the 12 babies from 2015.
4. Cole's free will messes with fate by saving Ramsey.
5. Ramsey and Cole are brothers again.
6. Jennifer is an amazing actress, and she heads out to release the virus to 12 cities because she doesn't want mankind to live. (It's an animal's world!)
7. Olivia thinks she has everything figured out but may be in for an awakening thanks to Coles decisions.
8. I'm not sure why the 12 hoodies want the time machine. I'm thinking maybe to stop people from time traveling so they won't mess up the plans.
9. I still have no clue as to who the witness is, but it can't be Ramsee. He made that clear.
10. Am I the only one who missed the Pallid Man?

I can can add more but I probably am boring you too much as it is.
tm
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Apr 19, 2015
Isnt it obvious when cole exit his circle ? when he was reborn ? He cant time travel anymore but maybe he can sense the loops so he can break them.
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Apr 14, 2015
I still have "These Arms Of Mine" stuck in my head all these days later. And that is most certainly not a bad thing!
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Apr 13, 2015
THIS! 1000 times this!

This is how "Ams of Mine," and really the entirety of 12 Monkeys' first season, made me feel


"I was hoping for a finale that would fill in some of the blanks of 12 Monkeys' complex story, but "Arms of Mine" managed to avoid doling out answers while still being an entertaining hour that sucked me in even further."

Make that 1001

"Dang! Kirk Acevedo was intense in this episode! He's one of the more underrated actors working today."

Find me something Kirk Acevedo has done where he ISN'T intense. That's his move. He is to to intensity what Zeljko Ivanek is to sneaky underhanded villainy. That they're both on the same show doing what they do best is just part of what makes 12 Monkeys so damned awesome!
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Aug 01, 2016
Kirk Acevedo
He kinda reminds me of Nicholas Cage...
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Apr 13, 2015
Yes, that was Katrina's ex-husband, Dr. Elliot Jones. He built the machine,while she developed the serum. They're already separated at this point, which is why he told Ramse that it was difficult for him to procure a vial.
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Apr 13, 2015
Ramse didn't want his goon to shoot Cassie because it would mean that she wouldn't have been able to leave the message for Cole and that would've messed up the future for Ramse and his kid. He needed Cassie to survive.
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Apr 14, 2015
Or maybe she's the witness!
Think about it, why Olivia thought Ramse was to be found dead near the machine but he wasn't, it could be because Cassie knew she shot him there and thought he died, but since she splintered before Cole took him out of the building that information is not correct. She couldn't have known that. Maybe her future self is the witness. Maybe that's why Olivia sent (or at least agreed with) Aaron to save her.
She's the only person besides Cole and Ramse who could actually witness anything. Well, there's Jones and the 12 ghouls but I don't think any of them is the witness...
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Jul 08, 2015
That definitely occurred to me, too! Though I'm hoping she's not the witness, 'cause I get the feeling the witness is evil, and so far she seems good, good, good. Though shooting Ramse. . . that was the first time she's done something outside of the normal (non-virus experiencing) human moral code, if I remember correctly.

I don't care about Aaron enough to want him to be the witness, but that also occurred to me, because I wouldn't mind hating him and having him be the bad guy.

I actually wanted it to be Ramse, only because Kirk Acevedo is fun evil, and is good at being the nuanced evil and good at the same time. Still, to me it's clear he's not.

We already know Cole isn't exactly a good guy when his back's against the wall, so maybe he's going to be the witness, considering Ramse is "the traveler".

I want to know whose body that is, the source! I'm thinking it's someone from the future, probably Cole. He was acting really weird around it, down in the night room, wasn't he?

Haha, I love time travel shows/movies. They're too much fun!
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Jul 09, 2015
How could Cassie be The Witness when she was the who leaves the message to find Cole and started the whole cycle.
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Jul 15, 2015
Well, you're probably right, but it was just a thought after an intense episode now, after I watched the season again (twice) I'm not so sure she's the witness...
(FormerNathanShouldDie = NathanShouldDie, something went wrong with my computer and it forgot all of my passwords... Stupid AI!!!)
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Apr 18, 2015
Makes sense !

Olivia did say to Aaron "Cassie is very important to us"... I understand Cassie is important to Cole and Aaron in different ways, but important to Olivia? How? Why? That must be it... the Witness!
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Apr 22, 2015
Olivia seems very concerned with protecting the cycle, which meant keeping Cassie alive because it meant Ramse would travel back in time and assist their mission. I don't think Cassie was even supposed to travel to 2043.
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Apr 14, 2015
I'm pretty sure the whole breaking of the cycle meant that the witness was from the original timeline, went back in time and knew everything that had/would happen, up until the ending of the season finale. That would mean that the witness didn't actually have to be there to see Ramse get shot, he would know simply because it had been in the news during his timeline which has now changed.
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Apr 22, 2015
There was no reply button on your latest comment, so...

Well, that's another theory... And it could be no more true than mine.

I'm not saying I am 100% right, just speculating about it, the witness could be anyone and from any time.

Anyway, I started rewatching the episodes and there are lots of things that I missed the first time:
-For example, when Jenniffer meets Cole for the first time she appears to recognize him, she says something like "...can't talk about the monkeys, temple, light in my head..."
This light in my head made me think if she went through time at some point and lost her mind during the process, but then we see she ages, IDK.

-Also when Pallid man first met Cole, he expected Cole to recognize him, but I assume that was because Cole cut his cheek years before...

-When Jones sends Cole two days back in time by accident and Deacon catches him he drugs him with the same thing Olivia drugged Cassie - Cole starts seeing red forest and such...

-When the witness is mentioned first time it was Pallid man who tells it to Cole, then Cole asks to meet him and Pallid man's facial expression is as if he's confused by this request or something...

- Jones' daughter was most certainly not aborted but born and then died of the plague, it is mentioned in one of the episodes that she died in Jones' arms.

-Also there is a scene in an episode after they take the core from the Spearhead where Jones burns some files and pictures, there's one shown to the right but the inscription is not visible and the other is shown to the left on which it's written that Spearhead had the cure for one strain(we knew that) but it made me wonder what if they had the cure for all of the mutations but Jones decided to ignore it - Ramse's girlfriend seemed to be convinced in it.

-In one of the last episodes Olivia talks to Jennifer about her(Olivia's) father, she says something like "there was the thing in the box with printed instructions" WTF?

etc.
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Apr 15, 2015
Not sure what you're saying. Do you mean the witness is from 2043 or 2015 or something else? If he/she is from 2043 then he should have traveled back to 2015 at some point, but that does not explain why (s)he possesses the knowledge only to this point in time. If it's someone from 2015 then (s)he must be someone who traveled trough time either backward or forward or both in order to know future events (up until 2015) and tell them to Olivia (in the past so she could use them)...

I don't know, I'm not saying that I'm right or anything, just I see more evidence that say Cassie is the witness then there is for somebody else.

In my opinion, even if it was not Cassie, it must have been someone who appeared or was at least mentioned in this season, I don't think they'll pull someone new out of their hats just to surprise us...

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Apr 22, 2015
Well the witness could be someone from 2080 for all it mattered. If they had knowledge of all events that happened up to their time and they went back in time, then they'd know everything that happened. They knew everything work a specific way, up until the time line was broken by Cole changing his mind and making a different choice, which could potentially make the Witness stop existing if his timeline was broken.
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Apr 18, 2015
Man the story line or should I say time line has gotten so convoluted that at this point I doubt even the writers know who the witness is LOL! But it wouldn't surprise me if they reveal the witness to be Cole
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Apr 14, 2015
The same thought had occurred to me, since only Cassie would have that particular mix of information/misinformation. But then I recalled that she has to eventually return to 2017 to leave that message for 2041 Jones and give post-Chechnya the address. And then die, obviously. Plus, she says she spent two years with Cole in the past. None of that seems like the behavior of the Witness.
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Apr 14, 2015
That's because you see the actions of the witness as those of a villain. Maybe the witness only appears to work with the bad guys but actually ensures that Cole succeeds in his mission.... in a long run.
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Apr 13, 2015
Precisely!
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Apr 13, 2015
Man, I wish I could see this series the way most of you see it. To me it is the most forgettable, unintelligible show I've seen in a while. I guess the main problem for me is that because 12 Monkeys is one of my all-time favorite movies, I was already prejudiced against this.

Honestly, I'm blown away by the amount of praise this show gets. I tried watching this trying to mentally disconnect it from what I know to be 12 Monkeys, but for whatever reason, they kept trying to tie this to things from the movie.I can't help wishing that they named it something more along the lines of Time Splinter and simply called it a series based on the movie 12 Monkeys which was based on the short film La Jetee; or even if they just based it completely on La Jetee.

I will say if there's anything I like about the series, I do like Kirk Acevedo's Jose Ramse. I think he's just a terrific (and in agreement with Tim) underrated actor. But other than that, there seems to be absolutely no need to rewrite or recreate Cole or Dr. Railly or Jeffrey Goines. They were already done perfectly- there was no need to bastardize them and cash in on name recognition.

I know a lot of people are really happy about this series, but just to make these comments a little more fair and balanced, I gotta say- I think it sucks. Sorry...
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Jul 08, 2015
I liked the movie 12 Monkeys, but I guess it didn't make such a huge impression on me as it did on you, because I haven't seen it in YEARS and don't remember it at all. That probably helps me enjoy the series. I'll watch the movie again sometime, but will wait until this whole series has played out. I know the movie won't suffer, since it's a classic, but I do think my enjoyment of the show could suffer from seeing the movie right now. Couldn't you just pretend that the show is all original, pretend it's not related to the movie? They're so different, you might be able to convince yourself. :)
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Jul 15, 2015
But the point actualy was to make something original that is based on the film, it would be dumb to make it the same... I don't know how some movies got away with doing that thing - Quarantine for example is not a remake of Spanish film REC but almost an exact word for word copy (just in English and with non-Spanish actors)...
Also, there are many other TV shows or films based on books that share very little with them, for example, TV show Haven is based on the short story by Stephen King (Colorado Kid) and it shares only the (first) names of two characters from it, and those characters are not even main characters in the show, so...

In the end, I don't know why I wrote this as a reply to your comment, lol, I agree with what you said 100%.

(FormerNathanShouldDie = NathanShouldDie, something went wrong with my computer and it forgot all of my passwords... Stupid AI!!!)
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Apr 14, 2015
Maybe you people should stop comparing these two. Both movie and the show are great - when I first saw the movie my mind was blown, it was one of the best movies; and when I heard that there would be a show I kinda wished for something like this. I mean, if you wanted a tv show that would copy paste the movie and just stretch it a bit to fit the tv show format then that's your opinion and choice, but to me that would be incredibly stupid and unwatchable. The point is in making them different, and in doing that not ruining the movie and making the show as great as the movie. Which, btw, they succeeded in doing.
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Apr 14, 2015
They invited comparison by using the name 12 Monkeys. I didn't expect a show that would copy the movie, but if you're going to co-opt the name of a very good piece of work, you should be damn sure it's as good as or better than the original. You feel they have. Our opinions differ there. I feel that for a show of this mediocre-caliber, they might have been better off choosing a different name and acknowledging that it was inspired from the movie. I could hardly fault them for that. Afterall, that's what 12 Monkeys the movie did. But they weren't confident enough in their own story and ideas, or that audiences would give it a chance. So instead they chose to use the same name, hoping to piggyback off it's success and tap into its pre-established audience, so comparisons are fair game. Again, I have no hard feelings against anyone who likes the show- I just have a hard time understanding why. But glad you're satisfied with it.
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Apr 15, 2015
I think the creators originally wanted to use the title Splinter or something similar with a footnote of sorts that it was based on the film, but the higher powers decided to use 12 Monkeys probably to draw in viewers.

It's too bad you are not enjoying the show. I never saw the film and really have no desire to see it at this point. Maybe after the TV series ends, I will go back and watch the movie, but I'm not a big fan of either Bruce Willis or Brad Pitt.
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Apr 16, 2015
@shunsai, Oh, thanks for that article! I apologize for the misinformation in regard to the 12 Monkeys adaptation. It's a wonder they didn't just remake the original movie themselves. That seems to be a big trend these days--unfortunately!
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Apr 16, 2015
Thanks for that bit of information. I researched what you said and found this article which explains that it actually was a show called Splinter at first. Then the company that holds the rights to 12 Monkeys approached the showrunners and asked them to adapt their story to a 12 Monkeys series. So it seems it's not the showrunners who are responsible for this transparent, opportunistic cashgrab, but the 12 Monkeys movie rights holders themselves.
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Apr 13, 2015
I love the movie too. But I have to say that this series is leaps and bounds better than the movie. As much as I loved Brad Pitt's Jeffery Goines....Jennifer Goines is a lot funnier and more interesting character. Maybe it plays better that she is female to Cole's male but I pick this Goines over the other. Also, Cole's character in the series has more depth. It could be that the series has more time to develop his character traits but Bruce Willis's Cole was a schizophrenic with anger issues who connected with Railey but never grew. In the last episode you saw how Cole has changed in that he didn't kill Ramse. Previously he didn't have a reason to kill Ramse even though Deacon wanted him too. Here he had a clear reason now, Ramse is going to end up causing Cassie to die. Yet he didn't kill him. That is character growth. But aside from the characters, the biggest reason this series is better than the movie is the themes they are presenting. This series is presenting the relationship between time and fate and how they converge to consipre against any attempts to change history. The movie also did this in a subtle way. But the series is explaining it alot more coherent. Cole begins by taking Jone's shots to essentially move around time or have time move around him. We see that time is not in order but that doesn't stop fate from still appearing to be overwhelming. But after Cole's paradox he seems to now be moving around fate.

Youre bias may be causing you to miss the genius that is going on in this series. If you truly loved the movie, I cannot see you hating this after you take off your shades of hate. I didn't think I would like the series either but it is very very good.
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Apr 14, 2015
With the exception of the "shades of hate" jab, I appreciate your comments. I happen to not agree with them, but appreciate them all the same. I don't find this series more coherent or the characters better developed. As a matter of fact, I find them a lot less believable than the characters they were based on. Cole from the movie was schizophrenic and violent for sure. He lived in a world where BILLIONS of people had died and he was being held as a prisoner and used as a lab rat. I wonder where his mental problems and violent behavior stemmed from?

"This series is presenting the relationship between time and fate and how they converge to consipre against any attempts to change history."

I find their approach to the fate vs. self-determination argument partly ridiculous. At the end of the season finale, Olivia said something along the lines of 'Nothing is more powerful than fate.' How much do you want to bet that in season 2 they're going to pull an Interstellar and tell us that "Love is more powerful than fate"- particularly Cole and Cassie's love. Sorry, but I don't find that particularly original or deep. The psychology of the movie was far above this recreation that somehow manages to be both rudimentary and pedantic at the same time.

And I don't even want to get started on the pseudo-intellectual idea of it taking 'time travel to create time travel'. No, I think this series took a brilliant idea, came up with something inferior and tried to pass it off as better than the original. In talking to a friend last night who likes the series, I found the analogy I was looking for: this is basically what the Airbender movie was to the source material: not nearly as good or intelligent as it thought it was. Yes, 12 Monkeys is a Shyamalan'ed version of the original. I don't find anything particularly "genius" about this version.
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Apr 14, 2015

Thanks for the reply.I guess I thought your distaste for the show was biased but it seems like your thoughts are pretty grounded.

I think the show will end up in tragedy somewhat like the movie.Love will not be strong enough to avoid that.It seems that Cole is the origin and when he realizes it will have to die.That line I just wrote actually reminds me of Harry Potter’s fate.I actually sounded like Dumbledore in my head when he was telling Snape that Potter must die.That was pretty cool.

Anyway, I think you are underestimating the theme of fate vs. self determination.I could be wrong but just because the show has elicited this theory from me has me excited about it.I see it as time is out of order therefore fate must intervene to keep things on track.“There are no straight lines” so fate must awaken and get involved.There have been a few lines such as “Mother nature doesn’t like when you move the furniture around.” Olivia said, nothing is stronger than fate.But what if a paradox can cause a man to not be bound by fate?It seems to me that fate was working like auto correct.Someone messed up the timeline with time travel and fate auto corrects even if it means “it took time travel to create time travel”.

I think the genius of the show is in making the viewer think through the science of what is happening.The characters and actors have been very good which also helps.I’m totally all-in with Dr. Railey which is another reason why I love the show.I absolutely didn’t want her to get shot.

Don’t get me wrong if they come up with a explanation for the whole affair which doesn’t pass the eye test I will not be as fond of the show.But the journey is definitely fun.

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Apr 13, 2015
Very well said!!

I too am a huge fan of the movie...absolutely hated the idea when I first heard about it, and hated the actors that were chosen ( Except for Kirk.......Dude is so awesome in everything he does...needs his own series). How dare they touch such a classic, I thought. I had dialed up my hate meter to max.....by the end of the 1st episode.....hate meter was gone, and I decided to give it a fair chance....very glad I did.....cause I was dead wrong on all counts. I love the growth of the characters....Cole choosing not to kill.....Cassie choosing to kill.......Jones giving up on time travel.
I love where this show has taken us in the first season.....and hope they can keep it up for the 2nd.
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Apr 14, 2015
Sounds like we went through the same thing. I'd like to think I gave it a fair chance but didn't feel any different after it was over. I actually stopped watching after just 2 episodes, but my friend convinced me to try again. I watched all 13 episodes and I pretty much feel the same way I did from the start.

I admit I do find Jones giving up on time-travel and Cole choosing to save Ramse mildly intriguing, but Cole being healed by a time-travel blood transfusion and Cassie being sent to the future seem like a shark-jump to me.

Either way, I'm glad you could enjoy it even as a fan of the movie. I somewhat envy that.
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Apr 14, 2015
Well Shunsai, I would say that you gave more than a fair chance, and I totally understand where you are coming from(insert time joke here). At this point I see them as 2 separate things and am able to enjoys each for their own merits.
You should check out the movie Predestination(2015)....I think you might enjoy it.
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Apr 13, 2015
Jennifer's dodo speech was deep! glad Cole went back for Ramse and so the silver dudes are the army of the 12! didn't see that coming
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Apr 13, 2015
Ramse is now wearing 2 gloves....I wonder if his hands are getting all pasty and chalky like our friends 2043.
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Apr 14, 2015
Ooh, very interesting theory!
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Apr 12, 2015
I mentioned this in my previous post, but it was buried in a longer post.

I just think that Cassie would die in 2043 because she's not to be supposed to be immune to the virus, unlike everybody else who survived and is alive in that year. I hope they address this issue in the second season.
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Apr 13, 2015
Perhaps that is why she dies in 2017? She contracts the virus in the future. Mind = blown!
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Apr 13, 2015
That wouldn't be an issue because the facility is sealed off from outside contaminates. Cassie just couldn't go outside.
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Apr 13, 2015
Yes, that might work. but I wouldn't like to be in her place. Very risky situation.
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Apr 12, 2015
She's not immune to the 2015 variant, but it has mutated a number of times since then; she may be immune to the 2043 virus?
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Apr 12, 2015
I doubt the mutations would be more benign than the original strain. But let's see what explanation they come up with on the show.
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Apr 12, 2015
It happens, eg. HIV...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30254697
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Apr 12, 2015
I thought Jones said the virus was becoming more aggressive, not more tame, and soon everybody would be contaminated, so finding a solution was urgent. The story wouldn't make much sense otherwise.
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Apr 12, 2015
As Cole and Cassie enter the venue to listen to Jennifer's speech......on the outside.....there are 5 posters. The 2nd one.....I can only make out the words particle splintering, but on the 5th poster it says " Open Forum.........Particle Splintering.....with Dr Elliot Jones"


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Apr 13, 2015
Nice catch!
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Apr 12, 2015
If anybody wants to make sense or understand the time-travel issues on the show, here there is an explanation from one of the Executive Producers in a very good interview
"The thing he says right after “took time travel to create time travel” is “there’s no straight lines.” That’s Doc Brown drawing on a chalk board to show how they went into a parallel universe to say we went back in time and we created this alternate timeline. I don’t think any timeline when you’re involved with time travel is straight lines. It’s instead just a giant ball of crazy string and you have trouble seeing the beginning and seeing the end and the concept of beginnings and endings and cause and effect gets all messed up in a way that our traditional, human understanding of experience can’t quite articulate or comprehend"
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/11/12-monkeys-executive-producer-on-season-1s-finale-and-what-to-expect-in-season-2
Hints for next season in the interview.
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Apr 14, 2015
Excellent find, thank you!
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Apr 12, 2015
Thank you very much for the link :)
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Apr 12, 2015
Awesome and fun; I particularly loved Jennifer's Steve Jobs impression, "One more thing - dodobirds! And unicorns!"

I'm sticking to future Cole as being the Witness - at some point he goes back in time even further, writes up a history of the future for Olivia, and gets himself frozen in the Himalayas (given the same weird effect he experienced when being next to the corpsicle and his younger self last week).

One more thing that did occur, maybe Cole isn't defeating fate by saving Ramsee; maybe the Witness lied to Olivia; her account of future history is wrong?

*clapclapclap* SyFy; bring on next year!
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Jul 08, 2015
I had definitely already hypothesized most of your post, but I hadn't thought of the last bit. The witness may have been lying to his followers all along, and is on our side!
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Apr 12, 2015
12 Monkeys came out of nowhere...SyFi has churned a lot of disappointing shows in recent years. The 12 Monkeys appeared. What makes it special?
Casting with great leads and the best supporting cast around. Kudos to the casting people.
The writing is tight and has a plan... we might not be able to follow all of the plan but I have full trust that the writers and show-runners know exactly what they are doing. No filler episodes.
Production values are excellent. Never an impression of the show going cheap in that area.
After one season I would put it up with Battlestar and Fringe. Difficult to compare because there are so many flavors of Sci-Fi but 12 Monkeys does it's 'flavor' very very well.
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Apr 12, 2015
Fringe got better and better til the end. One of my favourite shows. 12 Monkeys is a very good show. But I could not compare 12 Monkeys to Fringe for so many reasons. Fringe had something special that few shows have.
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Apr 13, 2015
Not saying it was better than Fringe or Battlestar... just that 12 Monkeys has had an exceptional first season.

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Apr 13, 2015
I agree!
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Apr 12, 2015
Good finale! Cole challenged fate twice, I think. First when he sent Cassie to the future and second when he saved Ramse. I am not sure whom Olivia thinks killed Ramse--probably Cole.

The 12 pale blue people are the babies from 2015, and they are the Messengers, not the army of 12 monkeys. Obviously they are test tube babies, and I am thinking they were created to be immortal but something is going wrong with that plan--hence their pallor and cracked skin. Even though they should be just 28 in 2043 when they arrive at Project Splinter, the leader said that they represent the future. I think there is a big problem in the distant future, and they have traveled back to 2043 for help. They need the core or the serum or both.

Dr. Jones in 2015 is Kat's ex-husband and probably sent the ivy to the future.

Jennifer may not be as crazy as she pretends to be. In fact, I think she is faking it, and it appears she is in cahoots with Olivia's group and has set off to spread the virus to 12 cities. Of course, she could be faking her alliance with Olivia as well. She is a tough cookie to figure out.

Cassie will have to deal with Aaron's supposed death next season. It is going to haunt her, I'm sure. However, I expect Aaron is still alive but of course, Cassie will not know that while she is in 2043. Perhaps Aaron is the witness, or as someone else posted here Cole could be the Witness if there even is a Witness.

We had a few answers from this episode, but also many more questions. It will be a long wait until 2016.
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Jul 08, 2015
Seriously, this IS going to be a long wait!!
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Apr 14, 2015
Olivia is likely a time traveler herself, seeing as she hasn't seemed to age since 1987. I'm thinking Aaron, Jennifer, or both could be her parent(s)!
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Apr 14, 2015
Interesting! I feel sure Aaron is still alive so there is a purpose for him yet. Maybe he is a parent.
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Apr 14, 2015
No one else seems to see the possibility that Cassie might be the witness. My theory is that whoever the witness was he/she knew the future up until the shooting of Ramse. The same person didn't know that Ramse survived. Who could that be then - only Cassie, since only three of them were there and only she didn't know the Ramsey didn't die.
I don't think that 12 pale ghoulish men were the monkeys or from the distant future for that matter, that would be overcomplicating. But I think they are those babies that were shown.
We only saw Jennifer get in the plane with the virus, not her actually spreading it. If my theory of Cassie being the witness, maybe the future Cassie told Jennifer to transport (steal) the virus before it falls into the wrong hands, or something similar (just guessing here). Also it is possible that Jennifer is talking to Cassie on the phone calling to tell her that the timeline is not interrupted (she sent Cole and present Cassie to the place they should be).
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Apr 14, 2015
I think Cassie could be the Witness as easily as anyone except that she saw the Witness in a hallucinogenic state, which makes me wonder if the Witness really exists. Perhaps the witness is just "an idea" or "a vision." Anyway, if she saw the witness, would she be able to BE the witness? Possibly!

The 12 pale men are not the monkeys; they are the messengers as stated by the show's creators. I assume the messengers are part of the Army of 12 Monkeys. Who knows? And, yes, those 12 were the babies shown at Olivia's place, so they were born (or created) in 2015, but maybe they are coming back to 2043 from the future. However, Olivia did say they needed 28 years to be prepared for whatever their purpose is, so you're probably right that 2043 is their original timeline. The leader just looks a lot older than 28 to me.

As I stated, Jennifer was setting off to spread the virus, or at least that's what we are led to believe, but she may have a different agenda. I do not see an alliance between Cassie and Jennifer, but I suppose it is possible. Who knows with this show? It's crazy! lol!
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Apr 15, 2015
One can interpret anything in any way they see fit (just like Jim Carrey in Number 23), that's why one can interpret the Cassie hallucinating as her remembering or something similar. You know, when they gave her that drug, it could be the serum they use on Cole for time traveling... There are thousands of possibilities and I am sticking with Cassie as a witness - everyone is free to have his theories. We won't see who's right until next year... :(

On the messengers part - I think you are right, not because of what the creators said but because I think the 12 monkeys does not represent 12 people but an organisation that's just called like that. Like those Tamil Tigers (terrorists) are not actually tigers :)

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Apr 15, 2015
I've heard several people on different forums suggest Cassie as the witness, so you may be right! Olivia did seem to think Cassie was pretty important earlier in the season. Maybe it was to make sure she interacted with Cole to avoid changing the timeline, or maybe it was to make sure Cassie killed Ramse, which didn't happen but who knows that besides Cole and the viewers?

I, too, wonder if there really is such a thing as The Army of 12 Monkeys. Jennifer was the first one to use that term, wasn't she? The Pallid man did use it in one of the early episodes, so I think there is something to it, but as you stated, it could be just the organization name. I would call it a cult.
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Apr 12, 2015
What? This show doesn't have a community yet? That must be corrected.
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Apr 12, 2015
What a finish!!! My mind was blown all over. I still cant wrap it around the whole events in that final episode. Wow. There better be a season 2 cause I still got tons of questions! Can I just say these set of actors did immense justice to the Bruce Willis, Madeline Stowe and Brad Pitt characters and Cole bro You redeemed yourself. ....I think its pertinent to listen to his lament that after all he had done he couldn't recall his sons face anymore and his future (or past) was blurring too for him. That was powerful!
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Apr 12, 2015
Syfy has already announced the show's renewal, so our minds can be blown all over again next year.

BTW, do you know where I can find a time machine so I can skip straight to next year right now?
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Apr 14, 2015
Right! A whole year to wait until next season, damn, I want it now.
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Apr 11, 2015

I think Jennifer might be the witness and it would be hilarious.If you remember the Divine Move episode Ramse asked her straight if she knew who started the plague.First she says “yes” then she said “no there’s only one who truly knows….sees…did see will see….the witness”.Anyone who has been watching and listening to Jennifer knows that she tries not to lie but tells half truths.She says she knows but no she doesn’t know the witness knows.If she is talking about starting the plague by releasing the plague then she is probably the witness.If she means who started the origin of the plague than she is probably not the witness.

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Apr 11, 2015
Can someone explain to me why Olivia was so certain that the cycle "has been completed" ?
She mentioned something like: "Ramse will be found dead next to the facility, and Cole just heading to security..."
But he didn't, Cole actually came back to carry his friend. Does that mean the cycle is not as presumed by Olivia anymore?

Second question, was it mentioned where did the 12 babies come from?

A lot of things are not very clear to me and my boyfriend has a lot of his own theories which I don't agree with. I think we need a re-watch for season 1.
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Apr 14, 2015
My theory - Cassie is the witness and she didn't know if Ramse died because she already splintered. She assumed so and told Olivia (for some reason we'll find out next year) and Olivia assumed she was right... I don't think there was any chain or circle or whatever broken.
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Apr 11, 2015
I guess the cycle was broken by Cole's choice to save Ramse. By the way I like the brothers on the same team again!
As for the babies those ladies outside their room were their mothers or just nannies!? Don't know yet! Season 2 will reveal all these. The babies were genetically modified probably since in 2043 they have special abilities to say the least!
We are surely rewatching season 1 because I think we might have missed crucial things.
Wow, I haven't done this much analysis for a show in ages!
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Apr 11, 2015
One subtle change from the movie that I liked...which really has nothing to do with anything.... was the changing Dr Railly's name from Kathryn to Cassandra......Because in Greek mythology "Cassandra" was given the gift of Prophecy by Apollo....when she rejected him, he cursed her.....leaving her with the knowledge of future events, but unable to alter these events nor convince others of the validity of her predictions.
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Apr 14, 2015
One more thing that adds to my theory of her being the witness...
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Apr 11, 2015
There is one like from me, for someone who actually read books :P
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Apr 11, 2015
Some thoughts on the twelve pale men...

1.) Their skin tone is bluish, similar to the light emitted by the Project Splinter machine.
2.) It is implied that they are from the past, not the future. Their dressing style and fighting style appear to be influenced by the titular assassin in the Assassin's Creed video games. Deacon also comments on their leader's use of the word "sentry." He says it's "so old timey", if I recall correctly.
3.) Did anyone else notice flashes of blue light, again similar to the light emitted by the Project Splinter machine, when they were fighting the soldiers at the Raritan National Laboratory? Also, did anyone see the look of horror on Deacon's face during that same battle?
4.) The line "We represent the future, Madame. We do not wish to be relegated to the past." was difficult to wrap my head around.
5.) The pale men need or want the Project Splinter Machine for something and they need Dr. Katerina Jones to help them accomplish it, but they are willing to give the Raritan National Laboratory to Deacon.

Some other thoughts...
1.) The light emitted by the Project Splinter machine was golden in the present day instead of blue.
2.) Peter Outerbridge is 48 years old in real life. He was aged down in this episode, just like Barbara Sukowa last week.
3.) Dr. Elliot Jones was sending the plants forward in time. Didn't he say something to the effect of it being impossible to send things back in time? (Also, it's a minor annoyance, but what evidence do you have that your plants arrived 28 years in the future, Dr. Jones?)
4.) Barbara Sukowa was listed as a guest star this week.

My theory is that the twelve pale men are from the future. They travelled back in time and got stuck in 2043. They just want Katerina Jones to send them home, but she can only send things back in time and call them back to the "present." Next season, the pale men will need to track down Elliot Jones so they can go home. I think Peter Outerbridge is going to take over Barbara Sukowa's role in 12 Monkeys and the 2015 and 2043 plots are going to deviate. Cole, Ramse, and hopefully Cassie will try to stop the plague in 2015 while the Joneses try to send the pale men home in 2043.

I also think the pale men may have some time travel abilities like the mimics in Edge of Tomorrow. In the first episode, it was implied that Cole may be biologically enhanced or super human but the Pallid Man, whom appears to be much older than Cole, was able to best him in a fight. Maybe Olivia and the Pallid Man are from a time past 2043 (both are kind of pale) and the pale men are from a time past their time period.
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Apr 14, 2015
Ok, now you contradict (paradox) yourself. You say that 12 men are from the past because of the 'sentry' word but then you say that your theory s that they are from the future and that they are stuck in 2043.

...
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Apr 12, 2015
The 12 pale men are the babies from 2015, and they are The 12 Messengers per the series' creators.
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Apr 13, 2015
This is what I originally thought.....then I read something that changed my mind...now I'm back with my 1st option and do agree with you
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Apr 14, 2015
I'm just going by the interview I read, but I certainly am not the expert on the series or the mythology. :)
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Apr 12, 2015
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Apr 13, 2015
In one interview he says,

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the blue man group were the babies bred by the Army of the 12 Monkeys.
TERRY MATALAS:
They are known as The 12 or as Oliver Peters (Ramon de Ocampo) called them, The 12 Messengers.
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Apr 12, 2015
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Apr 11, 2015
"3.) Did anyone else notice flashes of blue light, again similar to the light emitted by the Project Splinter machine, when they were fighting the soldiers at the Raritan National Laboratory? Also, did anyone see the look of horror on Deacon's face during that same battle?"

Yes I did, which is why I think they're time travelers and assassins. The question is, are they the babies, or are they their descendants? Or are they something else entirely?
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Apr 12, 2015
They could technically be both (their own children) but they'd have to overcome the paradox-explosion-thing for that.
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Apr 11, 2015
Excellent episode!
I hear there's a planned crossover between Stargate and 12 Monkeys, where... no I didn't.
But I do love this show!
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Apr 11, 2015
I made a remark during mid season that the show cannot just be about Cole going back and always failing. As it turns out, they quickly switch gear and now it is a crazy ride with so many possibilities.

My patience almost ran out but the last two episodes have given me faith again. I like this finale enough to want to watch a second season.

So we have mostly confirmed 12 monkeys is a better than average show, it could even be awesome. However shows like this reminds me of shows like the 4400. They started off awesome and there were so many questions.

I just hope it does not suffer the same FATE and there better be smart answers and syfy better NOT cancel it before that.
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Apr 12, 2015
Oh, yes, the cancellation of The 4400 with such an inconclusive cliffhanger is a dark moment in the history of television executives' decisions.
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Apr 11, 2015
I never understood why certain conversation didn't looked like this:

Foster: We have the cure.
Jones: Seriously? We have time machine!
Foster: Seriously? Because - YES
Jones: YES! Are you thinking what i am thinking?
Foster: If you are thinking that we send the cure back in time and kill the virus, then we do!
Jones: YES, we are thinking the same thing! You are so awesome colonel.
Foster: No, doctor, you are so awesome.
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Apr 12, 2015
I think Foster had the cure for the current (2043) strain of the virus, or one that had muted a couple of years ago, as Jones claimed, but not the original strain. As I understand, according to my Medicine degree from Google University, with PhD from TV.com College, each strain needs its own cure.
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Apr 13, 2015
Actually, her argument were that he cured that old strains, cant produce cure for current and future mutations.
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Apr 13, 2015
That's why I said "I think Foster had the cure for the current (2043) strain). I THINK that because she burned the pictures and data that would prove Foster was much closer to the cure of had even found it. Anyway the point I was trying to make is that whether Foster had the cure for the 2043 strain or an earlier one, he shouldn't have the cure for the original strain, so using the cure and the time machine together wouldn't work.
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Apr 12, 2015
If I recall correctly, Foster strongly believed that the past could not be changed. It was a religious belief for him and we all know how religious extremists react when logic and reasoning contradict their beliefs. They could have shown the conversation on screen, but the writers were trying to present Foster as a well-intentioned anti-villain. They wanted to show what Katerina Jones was willing to do to prevent her daughter's death. It would have been harder for viewers to sympathize with Foster if he screamed no when presented with a rational idea because reasons and lalalalala I can't hear your logic.
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Apr 12, 2015
True...but then Jones kills Foster and sends cure back. Go team Time Machine!

To show how far Jones would go for her daughter, that last part where she burns evidence of finding cure is so frakking unnecessary, and creates giant logic black hole, which irks me like hell although i enjoy this show a lot.
When you have above average, maybe even quite good writing things like this pop out like a knife in the eye.
What were they thinking!?
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Apr 11, 2015
I'm going to take a giant leap and call out that Cole is actually the witness. The whole circle of fate will show us that he's the one behind everything and he's the one that ensures the plague happens.

The witness needs to be someone who has information on all the details of key moments throughout time which will lead to the creation and spreading of the plague. And, realistically, Cole is the only constant in the story. He's the only one that really has been a part of each key event in order to know so much. I'm assuming there's some event/trigger which leads to Coles' change of mind to start the plague and set all this in motion.

Of course...I could just be so far down the rabbit hole, that I'm talking crazy.

Great first season :)
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Apr 12, 2015
Does the witness have to be someone who wants to spread the plague? Perhaps the witness wants to prevent it? Or let it happen and then prevent it...... for some reason.
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Apr 11, 2015
Or it could be Jennifer or even Cassie :-)
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Apr 12, 2015
Cassie has more points from me, after this episode. She is there all the time and now she has also apparently met the 12 monkeys.
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Apr 13, 2015
Glad you made it to the finale :-)
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Apr 13, 2015
a little late, but I did :) It got more interesting towards the end, but I cannot help but think that it could have been so much better. Anyways, when a second season arrives, there is always a chance for a major improvement, so I'm going to stay hopeful :)
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Apr 11, 2015
We know the show is good because everyone wants to jumps to 2016 right away.
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Apr 11, 2015
I'll stay away from the big theories. My head hurts just to think about them. Better just enjoy the ride instead.

About the actors...

Now, considering the whole first season, I'm very happy with this show. First I thought Aaron (Stanford,the actor, not marker, the character) wasn't the right type to fill Bruce Willis's shoes, and I had great doubts about Brad Pitt in a skirt. But good professional actors do exactly that. They adapt to the role and own it. Sometimes we have this preconceived idea of what the protagonist/hero should look like, but it's nice to see that Aaron broke these notions. He's no longer just Birkhoff in my mind.

I already expected great things of Amanda Schull. I've always been a fan of her, and was waiting for a show for her to have one of the main roles.

Emily Hampshire is a very nice surprise. her character is crazy, unpredictable, likable, sexy, and potentially lethal, as it was confirmed in the end. It's a delight to see her on the screen.

Kirk Acevedo always has a remarkable performance. You can love or hate his character (well, usually hate...), but it's hard to be indifferent to him.

Noah Bean is nice, but he's being sort of type-cast as the mild-mannered guy, whether he's doing something good or bad. I'd like to see him do something different one of these days.

Tim Noonan is a great actor and deserved more screen time. He's being wasted.

Alisen Down (Olivia) is one of those Canadian actors who seems to be in every show I like playing a secondary work. I always recognize her, but never know from where. I think this is a role she'll be remembered for.

Barbara Sukowa was one of my favorite actresses and babes in the 1980s, when I was into German films. I'm glad to see her again.

Now, about the episode...

I'd suppose Cassie would die in 2043, since she, in principle, isn't immune to the virus, and everybody else who survived until then is. I imagine they'll have to address that issue in season 2.

So, Ramse basically was good, then turned evil, now he's good again. I mean, is he going to help Cole now? Can we trust him? I was already comfortable with the idea of hating him.
Speaking of hating, Aaron got what he deserved. And worst of all, his character became useless and he had nothing more to do in the show. When Cole was beating Aaron and some blood congealed below his nose, and his black or dark brown hair seemed sticky and sweaty, I thought Aaron sort of looked like Hitler. I imagined Cole saying "And about your tux," (punch!) you'll never see it again!" (punch!) But at this point I don't think this version of Cole even knows about the tux.

It's interesting that Cole and Cassie seem to love each other, but no far have made no attempt of demonstrating that physically even in the smallest way. I suppose that Cole grew up in a ruthless world and has problems dealing with feelings, and Cassie is the scientist who leads a reserved personal life and that makes it difficult for both.

All in all, I'll hop into my time machine and splinter into the future, because I don't know if I can wait for the next season to begin!
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Apr 11, 2015
Before the series started...I really didn't think Stanford could bring justice to the role of Cole.....but I was totally wrong and sold him short....He has been outstanding, and so has been the rest of the cast.
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Apr 11, 2015
Outstanding finish! DEFINITELY the 'dessert', as Tim put it, in that moment with the excellent use of voice over and saying "Nothing is stronger than fate" JUST when Cole hesitates and goes directly against it (we think). And how could you NOT be happy he saved his bud on top of everything else? He's literally the superhero, and this was done VERY well -- even the background music that went with the voice over and Cole's slow-mo running was PERFECTLY timed.

The show as a whole has been great, and definitely underrated for the first part of its run, and maybe still the latter, but those last moments in the finale put it above pretty much everything else out there at the moment. Brilliant.
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Apr 11, 2015
Oh look it's Dr. David Sandstrom! Only this time he goes by Dr. Jones, it's obvious he's Katrina's ex who it consumed by his work. I will say I’m wrong about Ramse being the witness, I should’ve known better since it was explicitly stated. For someone that wanted to go back to his kid was in no hurry to jump in the machine, I found that strange. This show likes so infer most its answers. I don't get why some people ignore that. Take the 12 babies at Olivia's (another nod to Fringe) place they are the 12 pasty white guys who want to take over the time machine and shape the future and not be held down by the past. When they were trained in the past they were clearly told to be patient. The one that talks clearly knows who Cassie is. I’m guessing Jones will patch her up and be allowed to go back to her time bringing some juice back for Cole. I like Whitley telling Jones to put him in the machine, it still seems retarded to me to stop sending people back. I hope they do a lot time traveling next season.
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Apr 11, 2015
This show is the sh*t. I have way to many thoughts and theories so I won't even bother to post them but I am very happy about this show.
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Apr 11, 2015
I very much agree!, this is the smartest scifi show in years!, can we jump to 2016 and watch season 2 now please?
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Apr 11, 2015
This is how confused the whole thing looks like. In my head:

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Apr 11, 2015
where it says 2071 it should say 2015 - 2043. Photoshop made a mistake ;)
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Apr 11, 2015
Did I miss something where did the year 2071 come from?
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Apr 11, 2015
No, it is a mistake. Sorry.
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Apr 14, 2015
May not be a mistake since they seem to be using 28-year cycles. 1987 to 2015 = 28 years; 2015 to 2043 = 28 years; 2043 to 2071= 28 years.

The 12 messengers were born/created in 2015 but may be coming back to 2043 from some point in the future--most likely 2071 which is another 28-year cycle.
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Apr 15, 2015
@Nathan ShouldDIE, look up the number 28. There are lots of neat associations such as 28 days in lunar cycle, 28 years of growth for a man, etc. I think "cycles" are important to Olivia and her people. 28 is a perfect number. I read some about the math and physics associated with 28, but most of it is over my head. lol!
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Apr 15, 2015
What's with the number 28? If I remember right in tv show Haven it is also a significant number...
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Apr 11, 2015
12 weird dudes are wrong. They are the 12 babies that Olivia had at her place. You need some lines for the time travel experiments with the plants from 2015 to 2043. maybe some multi directional arrows ;)
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Apr 12, 2015
They still look like 12WD to me. Enough line in the wannabe graphic. Great season, just a bit confused at times. But fun, a lot of fun.
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Apr 16, 2015
I loved the graphic, I understand it just fine.
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Apr 11, 2015
Kat ...."It's a prototype serum that I designed for Project Splinter just the one."
Dr Jones to Ethan............."This took a lot to procure."

Did Dr J marry Kat ....only to get his hands on the serum , so he could give it Ramse?


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Jul 07, 2015
Yeah he definitely did something sinister, I have no idea where this is going to spiral off to. The time jumps are giving me headaches and I'm not even the one jumping.
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Apr 11, 2015
Nice theory. But I thought she said to her father that she was going to work for project Splinter, why would she be planning to work for a group her former ex husband is a leader off?
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Apr 11, 2015
"It has nothing to do with my husband.
Raritan Valley is the only facility in the world focused on quantum splintering."


I'm guessing by her comment.....that her desire to work on the project outweighed whatever she was ...or wasn't feeling for Dr. Jones.....she also didn't seem to mind keeping his name.
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Apr 11, 2015
That would explain why Katerina wanted to get rid of "every part of him" by smoking herself into emphysema and COPD.
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Apr 11, 2015
One happy thought I have: Cassie can't age now right? so she and Cole can live for many years together!!!!!!!!! At least we have that!
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Apr 11, 2015
Not if 2017 happens the way it did before.
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Apr 11, 2015
I believe Cassie is immune to the virus (Maybe she died in 2017 from splintering-but we now know how to cure that!) so she won't die in 2017.
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Apr 11, 2015
We don't know how old that version of Cassie is, for all we know she is decades older than she looks.
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Apr 12, 2015
Very nice!! I hadn't considered that till now!
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Apr 11, 2015
What a spectacularly well done show. It's great that they spent the first season setting it up that there's no way to change the future, only to have something as insignificant as one different choice give the viewer hope that they can be successful. Such a bummer we have to wait for another 9 months. (Does anyone here have a time travel machine i can borrow?) My favorite line of the series so far, "It took time travel to create time travel." Hahaha, The ultimate chicken and egg scenario!
On one hand, i can't help but asking if it is possible that Cassie is the Witness and that's why Olivia been calling her important all the way through and that's why Ramse knew she had to go to 2043. I know it can't be, since she was seeing a person in the old house in the middle of red forest when Olivia drugged her. I also don't believe Cassie was necessarily intended to be sent to 2043 either, since the Army of the 12 Monkeys also seemed to feel that the circle was complete when Jones handed over the detonator -- and then Cassie shows up. I think we're on a new loop, kids. This is game changing. My only question, won't Cassie contract the virus by being sent to 2043? I'm pretty sure she's not immune.
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Apr 11, 2015
About Cassie being the Witness, I don't think so. At the beginning of "The Red Forest", Cole finds out the future was altered because the 12 Monkeys killed Cassie not long after capturing her. Yet the plague still happened. So Cassie obviously isn't that important to them.
And I think the onlyreason Ramse let Cole send her 2043 is because he knew that Jones would save her. I don't think Ramse knew she was gonna get shot. If she wasn't shot, what would he have said to get Cole to get him to send her to 2043?



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Apr 11, 2015
"won't Cassie contract the virus by being sent to 2043?"
I think at one point we saw how Cole and Ramse were scanned when returning to the base, before being let inside. There were also some canaries there, they might be more sensitive to the virus than humans are and might have been used like in real life mines: if the canaries die, there's trouble.
So the virus is probably not everywhere and the base should be safer, but I don't know how strict the rules of coming in have been lately, considering how the base has been invaded more than once.
So yeah, you're right, she might get sick.
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Apr 11, 2015
This episode was CRAZY. And I LOVED it.

1. I expected that in the finale episode of season 1 Cole and Cassie will track Aaron down. However, 12 Monkeys just jumped the time to a moment when Cole is beating a crap out of Aaron? For a moment I was like WTF is going on? Did I miss an episode?

2. Cole sent Cassie to 2043! I did not expect that. Will Cassie in season 2 take over Cole's role - meaning she will travel through time and Cole will be in 2015? (or 2016) I wouldn't mind that twist / making Cassie the main character of the show. Shame Cole didn't kiss Cassie before she splintered though.

3. So is Jennifer the one to release the virus? If so then she's already in the plane = game over for stoping the plague.

4. Ramse is not the Witness - it looks like "the Witness" will be 12 Monkeys' "A". If we ever find out the identity of the witness - it will be in the series finale.

5. So these 12 guys were born in 2015 and sent into the future? Why are they all grey and wrinkled?

6. I was right saying that the time machine was build before the plague started. Also now we know where these red plants came from.

7. I loved how Cassie slaped Jennifer. She was like "I don't have time for this bullsh!t."

I can't believe we have to wait till freaking 2016 to find out if Cassie survives (fingers crossed!) and to see what will happen to her. I want season 2 NOW dammit!

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Apr 11, 2015
If Cassie dies, then she can't give Cole the address. Of course, if she wasn't supposed to get shot, then she has to go back to at least 2017.
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Apr 12, 2015
It's possible Cassie and Cole have just created a new / alternative time line in which Cassie and Cole may not even see each other in 2017.
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Apr 12, 2015
That's an intriguing possibility.
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Apr 11, 2015
Cassie cannot die. If she dies now, then she cannot give the Address to Cole in 2017, which means Cole die in 2015 without the help of Young Jones. Which also means, Young Cole remains with his dad, since his dad would survive, and All of this Never happened !

So... Sending Cassie back to 2043 was also part of fate, and Jones will send her back with the address - This made sense to me.

I don't understand why didn't Cole ask Ramsie "then who the F is the F'ing Witness?" he had enough time to ask this important question.

I also don't know why didn't anyone, especially Cassie and Cole wonder how did Cole's Mom who knew about the 12 Monkeys? Huge co-incidence? I don't think so.. They should have tried to find her.

And to the 12 Babies, I don't think they are the "Army of the 12 Monkeys" because, as Jennifer used to draw, they really were "Monkeys" (animals)... So it cannot be 12 humans.
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Apr 15, 2015
Monkeys are people, but they are not 12. 12 monkeys is the name of the organisation, cult, whatever, and I think there aren't only 12 people within it.
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Apr 11, 2015
If Ramse doesn't know who the Witness actually is (and I believe he doesn't), then maybe the writers just spared us the time of asking a question and getting a useless answer.

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Apr 11, 2015
There a lot of questions to answer, to be sure. But the question of who is Cole's mom will be a crucially important reveal at some point in the show's future.
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Apr 11, 2015
The season finale sure was Cassie's episode. She got to shoot someone AND travel in time. Who says a girl can't have it all?

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Apr 11, 2015
Only thing missing was the kiss from Cole just before sending her to 2043.
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Apr 11, 2015
AND slap someone. :-)
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Apr 11, 2015
LOL @ the slap... Jennifer always pisses her off. It's hilarious
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Apr 11, 2015
Kirk Acevedo is an amazing actor, but he always get killed or written off in all the shows he's in. Its a shame, I wonder how it work out for him here in 12 Monkeys and in Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D
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Apr 11, 2015
That's because he's always cast as a prick in every single shows i've seen him played in.
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Apr 12, 2015
Yeah that's true
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Apr 11, 2015
He was mostly non-evil in Fringe!
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Apr 11, 2015
That's true. Dude plays a good jerk.
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Apr 11, 2015
I LOVED IT!!!! I have so many theories on my mind right now and while reading all the posts I have new ones, my mind will explode! Thank you 12 monkeys for a brilliant 1st season which i will rewatch many many times!
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Apr 11, 2015
Seeing as Katherine was only married for 6 days before he left....and she wanted "every part of him gone"......I find it kind of surprising she kept his name.....I wonder if there is anything to that.
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Apr 11, 2015
She probably wanted to have the same last name of her daughter.
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Apr 11, 2015
Anyone else notice the computer cases and motherboards attached to the time machine? Looks a bit cheap. I like the show though.
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Apr 11, 2015
"– Who was the Dr. Jones fella we met in 2015? Katerina Jones' husband was out of the picture by then, and that guy definitely wasn't her dad. So who was it? And was he the one sending ivy into the future since he could only send things into the future?"

I'm pretty sure he's her ex-husband. They split up but he's still working on the project.
And yes, he says he sent them 28 years into the future which makes 2043, so that's the explanation for the plants in the machine: a test run.
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Apr 11, 2015
I'm still not getting why they had a lot of red plants in the lab in 2015. One of the 2015 scientists mentioned that "green turned to red"; were these plants they'd sent through time already, maybe just back/forward a few days so they could retrieve them?
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Apr 15, 2015
I think that those are the plants collected at the places where paradoxes occurred, that's the only way to create them.
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Apr 12, 2015
I don't think they can send them forward in time only a few days, because very small and very large jumps require a lot of energy, if i recall correctly. That's probably why they picked 28 years instead of something easily testable.
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Apr 11, 2015
The plants also turn red when exposed to temporal energy, like when Cole splintered in the restaurant and the plants behind him turned red, and the bushes that turned red after being exposed to the paradox in the garden.
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Apr 11, 2015
So they weren't just extraordinarily lazy - there is a reason Ramse and the woman don't age. I don't see why they couldn't have chucked in an explanation before.
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Apr 11, 2015
Wait, what is the reason again?
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Apr 11, 2015
Jones, mentioned in the episode that the serum causes time to slow down or move around them, thus they either don't age at all or just very slowly.
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Apr 11, 2015
Something something serum wibbly wobbly timey wimey.
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Apr 11, 2015
Interesting Finale. Maybe Olivia is Khatharina's daughter. I think the writers themselves haven't yet figured out how everything will come together in the end.
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Apr 12, 2015
They have already written 3 seasons and I believe they have already filmed season 2.
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Apr 12, 2015
If that's the case, then the story should be cohesive and most, if not all, questions should be answered.
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Apr 12, 2015
I don't think they know whether or not there will be a season 3 that will depend on the season 2 ratings
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Apr 11, 2015
And now Ari Tasarov. I wonder how many Nikita actors are going to appear next season.
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Apr 11, 2015
You mean David Sandstrom?
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Apr 11, 2015
So Ramse back in Team Cole? I didn't count but I won't be so sure that those 12 babies are actually the Hooded dudes because the camera work of this show has been totally misleading. The year long wait would be unbearable but it would be fine as long as they don't screw it up the way they did with Helix.
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Apr 11, 2015
Helix is in a whole other whack-a-doo universe from 12 Monkeys. And this is from a fan of both shows.
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Apr 11, 2015
two vastly different shows.
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Apr 11, 2015
What an exceptional first season. This show is destined to become a Sci-Fi classic.
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