Arrow "Haunted" Review: Back to the Here and Now

Arrow S04E05: "Haunted"

Before I dig into "Haunted"—not that there's a huge amount to dig into since the episode was still stuck in hashing out the emotional aspects of Sara's return, and the show was still unable to find much character traction—I wanted to just sort of marvel at the state of TV today. Shared narrative universes on TV really aren't a new thing; technically, Love, American Style is the mother universe of Happy Days, and that show spun off five other sitcoms. The PracticeAlly McBealBoston Legal, and Boston Public are all in the same David E. Kelley universe. I mean, when you just stop and think about about how John Munch has been a character on HomicideLaw & Order: SVUThe Wire, and The X-Files (just to name dramas Munch has appeared in), then John Constantine jumping from his canceled NBC show doesn't really seem that impressive (and I'm not even wading into of the Tommy Westphall Universe Hypothesis).

But we're all about shared narrative universes on TV having an intense continuity now, which is largely what differentiates the examples above from the current crop of TV shows that share universes. It's why the first question about Supergirl wasn't so much, "Who's going to be in it?" so much as it was "Will it be connected to Arrow and The Flash?" It's why some of us were excited by Gotham's unsanctioned green Q (for Queen Industries/Consolidated) appearing in the Gotham City skyline one time. Now, retroactively, Constantine is a part of the Arrowverse despite it previously having no association with The CW's television shows or even their producers and showrunners.

And so there's some fun to be had with this set up. Fans of the Constantine show were able to see Matt Ryan back in action, and people who hated Matt Ryan as Constantine have the opportunity to complain about him some more (and they also get to complain that Constantine still can't smoke on screen). Everybody wins! As for me—someone who liked Ryan's work (largely because I have no connection to the character) but found Constantine to be a so-so show—I was mostly just concerned about how Constantine would fit into Arrow's universe. I generally sort of liked, tonally, how he fit. Even after folks like Barry and Felicity and Ray, Constantine is his own "very specific kind of unique" to everyone else, but Arrow's sort of at its best, oddly, when its characters are faced with other characters who don't totally fit into the mold. They're a little injection of energy, and they create fun little dynamics for everyone.

The decision to bring in Constantine also made narrative sense given the mystical and occult nature of things so far this season, between Darhk's powers and retrieving Sara's soul. Sure, the show could've used out a different mystically-connected DC character, but Constantine a) already "existed" and b) is probably the best choice to slide into Arrow given the character's world-traveling nature and his sort of "streetwise" approach to dealing with the dark arts. Basically, Dr. Fate would've been a much harder sell to set up and make work, even as Arrow continued to expand its scope.

That being said, just because Constantine fits into Arrow doesn't mean his presence in the show was seamless. Choosing to put Constantine on Lian Yu to establish a previous relationship with Oliver was actually pretty darn smart, and it even furthered the flashback's plot a bit to vaguely indicate that Reiter has motives outside of the drug trade. Constantine also gave Oliver some Chekhov's tattoos as a parting gift for when the flashbacks kick into a higher gear. It also set up the flashbacks to hopefully provide some more connection to the present day storyline than how things ended up last season.

But the actual payoff of "Constantine owes Oliver a favor for saving his life" felt pretty forced. They have one another's phone numbers? When did that happen? Oliver probably didn't even have a phone number when they met on Lian Yu. Were those tattoos actually Constantine's digits (he would do something like that)? There was just a large gap between explaining how Oliver would know Constantine and that, even though Oliver did save his life, Constantine would feel compelled to get himself to Star City ASAP. There's more to their story, obviously, but it was a little hand-waved here. Finding out those other bits may or may not happen—Mark Guggenheim described Constantine's appearance as a "one-time dispensation"—but the show at least set up the possibility that Constantine could come back and play again given his knowledge (and fear) of Damien Darhk.

Okay, right, Sara and Laurel and judgemental Oliver and lying and everything else. One thing I didn't get across as well as I wanted in last week's review was that doing bad things for the right reasons, but also lying and keeping secrets, comes with a price. That price is often a person being perceived as being a pretty horrible human being by others. Sometimes it's pretty darn justified, like Diggle's anger over Oliver's shenanigans last season. Other times, it results in glass houses getting smashed up, like Oliver's confrontation with Quentin last week. Basically, most everyone on the show is bad/horrible in one way or another, and each of them throwing past mistakes into one another's faces has gotten really tired when it doesn't feel dramatically significant or motivated.

Which was basically where we found ourselves again this week, since the show was still grappling with Laurel's reasoning for bringing Sara back from the dead. Again, it just doesn't make any sense that she'd stick Sara in the Lazarus Pit given everything she went through last season and learned about the pit this season. So while it resulted in some tough exchanges between Oliver and Laurel, I just couldn't buy any of it given the context in which all of this was happening. For example, this idea of not seeing Laurel as an equal is a really fascinating one, and one that makes sense given Oliver's treatment of Laurel since Season 3, but how it came up and was then followed up with Laurel calling Oliver out for not thinking about what Laurel had been going through just robs it of any real potency, mainly because the show itself has not really cared about what Laurel's been going through in regards to bringing Sara back to life. 

The show, as a whole, has struggled to fully care about Laurel, and while it sometimes has done a marvelous job, it isn't doing one right now (she's ready to shoot Sara after all of this?! C'mon, Arrow, nobody was buying that), and it's ruining large chunks of the show.

I want to avoid delving too deeply into this closing thought since when I get ahead of Arrow, I run out of things to write about when they catch up to my thoughts, but I want to bring it up here since it's relevant given this line from Thea: "I know why you're here. I want you to know it's okay. I want you to do it." This is remarkably significant for Thea on a character level, and it's a string I truly hope the show pulls on and plays out because instead of just bloodlust making her reckless, a death wish could drive Thea to achieve some release from it entirely. She doesn't want to live as someone who needs to kill to remain sane. Remember when Oliver was just concerned about Thea having the guilt of indirectly being responsible for Malcolm's death? Simpler times.

But it also made me think about Sara. So much of Sara's development was based in her not feeling like she deserved to be happy and that her family would not accept her because of the killer she had become. While she had sort of come to grips with it by the end of Season 2, she hadn't entirely allowed herself to have that sense of belonging outside of being an assassin. I can't help but wonder, as in the case of another blonde woman who could kick some ass, died, and was then brought back to life, if Sara's going to be entirely happy to be back living with that pain again. While it'll be something for Arrow to kickstart, I imagine I'll just have to wait until Legends of Tomorrow to see where it all goes.



FROM THE QUIVER


– Hey, Diggle! I hope you appreciated learning more about your brother in a real dead-end of a C-plot (yeah, I feel like Lian Yu ended up as the B-plot this week). If there's one person I sometimes feel like this show cares about less than Laurel, it's Diggle. At least it's progress. Maybe after they save Ray from whatever trouble he's in, Diggle's issues with Darhk and HIVE will have some room to breathe.

– Since he reviewed Constantine for the site, I asked Nick if he wanted to fill in for me this week, and he just laughed at me because he hasn't watched Arrow since "Year's End." That's Season 1, Episode 9. But just know that I tried!

– Glad they kept Curtis's Olympic athlete background from the comics.

– Hi, Parker Young! Your presence probably made this Tim's favorite episode of Arrow... if Tim were still watching Arrow. Which I don't think he is.

– "What do you want?" "Oh, a new beginning for the world, a nice glass of merlot. Not necessarily in that order."

– "This is your overlord, Felicity Smoak."

– "Are you sticking around for a cupcake or something?"

– "Oh, I'm just glad that the latest person from Oliver's past is not another gorgeous woman."

– "Oh, you've heard of him." Amell's delivery of this was on a level I never thought the show would allow Oliver and by extension Amell to reach. I'm having my issues with this season, but them loosening up Oliver is not one of them.

What did you think of "Haunted"?


Comments (234)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
Dec 01, 2015
Why did Reiter care about Oliver being killed by Constantine?
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 11, 2015
They totally dropped the ball by not having Constantine either a) help Thea deal with her own spirit-related issues, or b) at least having him mention how her problems run deeper than "a simple resurrection" or something.

By not addressing it at all, they're inviting us viewers to see behind the curtain and walk away with the sense that these characters are written, and not "real". When literally any real human being in the same situation would have asked Constantine to fix Thea, the Arrow crew for some reason doesn't. And that's because the writers didn't want them to without giving us any good reason why not, which makes two-dimensional characters who spend all their time whining about "pain" and "darkness" and "saving this city", all that less relateable.

Also: is it just me, or wouldn't it be cool to see Constantine join Heroes of Tomorrow? The team already has tech guys and metas and ninjas. I think this season of Arrow (and any with the League of Assassins, really) proves that every super hero team in the DC universe needs a spiritualist on hand.
Reply
Flag
Nov 10, 2015
Maybe now Backstrom will make an appearance on Arrow too. #wtfconstantine?

Reply
Flag
Nov 09, 2015
Since Constantine could help Sara come back, why not let him help Thea as well with her "Bloodlust", or is this being saved for a future episode?
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 08, 2015
I hope The CW make JOHN CONSTANTINE show :)
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
OK-I am no political expert but if Oliver is running unopposed, why does he need a POLITICAL STRATEGIST? He has no competition. If he gets any votes at all he gets more than the non-existent other guy.
Reply
Flag
Dec 01, 2015
Oliver and the strategist addressed this. Does Oliver want to govern with 11% of the city having come out and voted for him, or 90%? Being able to govern is different from being able to win an election.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 08, 2015
I wondered the same but perhaps there is some oposition after all? I am not sure. I didn't understand why he needed so many campaign employees.
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
Parker Young was hilarious in Suburgatory.
"Like that game in Harry Potter?
Constantine was badass as usual! hope he appears in future episodes and his dead peacock feather scene was pretty funny.
"Any of you squabblers got a cigarette?"
"These aren't prayers mate."
"Unless you want to redecorate your lovely hut with his brains"
"I'm on the side of the angels mate."
"You know if I knew you were surrounded by so many pretty girls Oliver I would've stopped by sooner."
"Any helpful advice?" "Ya leave town."
have to admit I kinda laughed when Thea fell down the stairs
"That's okay, I think I might be having a cardiac incident anyway."
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
The dead peacock feather scene - such a burn aimed at NBC. I wonder did they noticed? x)

Origin of one of Oliver's tattoos + his super confused look = lots of cute and awesome ;]

Thea: "Well, he is a very specific kind of yummy." - ooh, I so agree with you girl!

Oliver response: "Oh! I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear you just say that." + the face he made - Constantine needs to come to Star City for longer simply to irritate the hell outta Ollie ;D

Oliver to John: "How about, anytime, anywhere you need me, I'll be there." - perhaps that's over-interpretation, but it looked to me like Stephen Amell's and Arrow creators assurance they will do whatever they can to bring Constantine back. I'd like that very much :3
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 08, 2015
I would love to have more Constantine! And yes, I was very happy one of the tattoos were explained.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
Heh, of course they would find a way to send Constantine to the island and appear in the flashbacks. The present day is never enough, plus Oliver's past is a gold mine with limitless supply. It's a revelation I was only midly surprised by as a result, but I also think that it worked out alright.

My main issue with the flashbacks right now is the same one as last week - Conklin clearly has Oliver figured out with so much proof that randomly and accidently fell into his hands, which makes for insufferable dynamics if our protagonist's infiltration is to continue throughout the season. It does make the Big Boss look like an idiot if he keeps refusing to look at the evidence. Unless he is playing Oliver, that might be one angle to salvage that story.

I've never seen Constantine while it was airing, but I thought Matt Ryan did pretty well as far as first impressions go. Nonchalant behavior at its highest. Wouldn't mind if the show decided to use him again in the future.
It is too bad that they couldn't exorcise Thea while they were at it with Sara's restitution. A two-for-one package would be pretty sweet. Because now it's not going to make a whole lot sense if Sara is fully cured and literally back from the dead, while Thea only continues getting worse.

Really liked Laurel in this episode, she was very genuine in her horror over what Sara had become, her care for Thea, or in that speech she gave Oliver. At the same time it was nice to see a non-jerk Oliver getting around.

The political strategist was a sound option, and while his general theory was mostly on point, his specific advice was completely senseless. What the public also loves are the tales of redemption, and there is no better one for Oliver than being backed by the Lances. That friendship with Laurel should be in the spotlight, to show that he was forgiven for all his wrongdoings in the past. This way no one can do any damage to him by dragging that particular skeleton out of the closet. Distancing himself from Laurel would only ever made sense if she was still the drunk who keeps embarrasing herself. So either the writing team doesn't know the politics as well as they would like to believe, or the advisor guy was meant not to be very good at his job for missing this rather obvious fact.

I appreciated how Diggle's brother didn't turn out to be some hero who died an innocent death, but rather the complete opposite. It's painful for our man, yet not nearly as black and white at the same time.

All in all, a second fairly decent episode in a row.
More+
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
They can't exorcise Thea because she is not possesed. Also, I don't think Sara is cured, she just knows who she is and is better. I agree with several of your points but definitely not about Laurel. She was improving lately but since she decided to bring Sara back she is as awful as ever.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
This show getting comical every episode you got a polical strategist trying to advise Oliver stay away from one of your ex girlfriends. Oliver saying nah why bother you know nothing wtf Then Sara smashing through windows (producers really pushing the boundaries wardrobe malfunction) beating up thea lookalikes rip off terminator but sillier. Constantine turns up nice character get rid of diggle and the show will be more interesting . What annoyed me most for the part where Sara got her soul back 2 half minutes really .
Reply
Flag
Nov 17, 2015
Wardrobe Malfunction?
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 17, 2015
If that scene had been in 3d I be blinded by the boobs LOL
Reply
Flag
Nov 20, 2015
can't say i seen any of the boobage (Bar a lot of cleavage) haha!
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Now can we please send Sara off never to return to Arrow again?!! Can't stand her!
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
This was fucking awesome.. more crossovers please...
5
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
He goes around giving his card to people and you are asking how Oliver got his phone number.........REALLY!!!!!! REALLY NOW!!!!!!!!! And please don't dumfoundedly ask "Vell when did he peek it up? hurrrrrrrrrrrrrr?" SERIOUSLY just no!!!!
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Calm down. The question was more about how Constantine has a number from Oliver, who didn't have a cellphone when he was in the island. My take is that they talk to each other a few times since they met.
3
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
Ah that would make more sense. Well that means we will see more of them meeting each other. Thank you for clarifying
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Constantine was great! And I am glad people spoke to each other and some secrets were revealed. I've found the episode more or less ok with shining moments, the Constantine ones. And I want more Constantine in the Arrowverse! Bring him back! "He is a very special kind of yummy".
6
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
All I could do is smile and nod in agreement when thea said that about Constantine.
4
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
"Oh, I'm just glad that the latest person from Oliver's past is not another gorgeous woman."


I guess Serinda Swan was not available.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Wasn't sure who Serinda Swan, so I googled the name and my first reaction was: oh the one that kept me watching graceland :-D
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
She played Zatana Zatara in smallville for a few episodes. She had magic but Constantine is the occult guy.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
It was gr8 seeing Constantine doing his thing again. Loved his part in this episode-truly refreshing.
4
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
you would think with having Supernatural on the same network, that they could upgrade the special effects for JOHN FUCKING CONSTANTINE. but nope they show him have bullshit magic. He deserves better CW. SHAME!!
3
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
They can get John Constantine back as Vandal Savage is also a magic user. Oh yes, the reviewer probably doesn't know that 'cause they never read the comics. So, now you know...
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Recap: Laurel locked Demon Sara up in her basement and told her dad and he flipped out cuz DUH. His dead daughter is back. He then tried to kill her because she's like literally a demon or something or but Laurel being dumb as f*ck as per usual stopped him and like guilt-tripped him in to not killing her only for Sara to up and escape. She will almost certainly kill everybody. There was also a lame storyline about some rogue cops but I didn't care about it to much other than the fact that Tara was in it. And Oliver did find out about Quentin working with Neal McDonough and he got made cuz he always looked up to Quentin as better than him and he didn't like seeing the guy he thought was the gold standard wallowing in filth with a supernatually powered bad guy. Also Felicity finally listened to the message from Ray and hopefully we'll find out if he was able to tell her that he's alive.

Eeww, who are these creeps.

Damn, she stabbed the sh*t outta him.

Dang girl, you gonna kill her too?!

Alex Davis is a cutie!

Oliver, you have no idea what the f*ck you're talking about and you clearly need Alex.

I started fast forwarding through the flashback but then I saw Constantine so I had to go back and watch it. Damn.

JOHN CONSTANTINE!!! I'M SO GLAD TO SEE YOU!! Hopefully if this episode goes over well, The CW will bring your show to their line up where it should have been all along.

So you mean to tell me, this dumb bitch i.e. Laurel, knew Sara was missing for days and DIDN'T TELL HER FATHER?! This is why the f*ck I can't stand Laurel.

Did Stupid-Ass Laurel (I'm calling her Stupid-Ass Laurel from now on until she gives me a reason not to. J/k, like that's gonna happen) really just brush off the fact that her sister has killed 5 people since she escaped? Did this bitch really just "well you tried to kill her last week Dad!" Way to flip the script bitch.

Idk how I feel about the fact that Curtis reads Nicholas Sparks.

I kinda like seeing Oliver and Thea sparring, that's nice family bonding.

Thea: "....his advice was a little harsh. Distancing yourself from Laurel?"
Me: well, she's a dumbass and nobody likes her soooo...........

Wait, so it hasn't occurred to Thea that the blonde woman killing people might be Sara even though she knows that Sara was revived and she knows what the Pit does to people?

TELL HER OLIVER! I can't believe Stupid-Ass Laurel has the audacity to try and give attitude to Oliver right now in light of the fact THAT HER RESURRECTED SISTERS IS LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE. UGH.

These Constantine flashbacks are some of the only flashbacks I've seen all season.

Dang, now Diggle is mad at Quentin too.

I'm glad that Felicity is finally telling Oliver about Ray's message.

It's nice that Oliver is opening up about missing his parents and Tommy. I don't remember him ever talking about it like this.

All the victims look like Thea. So, Thea still hasn't told Stupid-Ass Laurel that Sara is obsessed with killing her? Why would Thea not tell this to Stupid-Ass Laurel? What kinda sense does that make?

Damn, Sara is throwing Thea all around like a rag-doll!!

RUN BITCH RUN!! SARA IS NOT PLAYING AROUND!!

Stupid-Ass Laurel: "You don't see me as an equal!"

What Oliver Should Have Said: "Yea, lets have this convo outside the hospital room where my sister is laying beat the f*ck up at the hands of your dead-ass semi-demonic sister that you didn't tell anyone escaped from your basement forever ago."

Stupid-Ass Laurel: "My sister is out of her mind right now, because of something that I did. A decision that I made. Did you ever just stop and think for one second, what I might be going through?"

Me: I'M SORRY, BITCH WHAT?. Did you really just "But what about my feelings" this situation? Tell me if I'm wrong but here's what my ears heard "I know I was told by MULTIPLE PEOPLE NOT TO DO THIS AND I DIDN'T LISTEN AND NOW MY SISTER IS SLASHING PEOPLE LEFT AND RIGHT LIKE SOME KINDA JACK THE RIPPER AND I KNOW SHE JUST PUT YOUR SISTER IN THE HOSPITAL..........BUT WHAT ABOUT ME?!?!" NOPE, don't give a sh*t. Because you were straight up told exactly what would happen (she'd soak in the murderous souls of thousands and would be evil), you saw first hand what the Pit was doing to Thea, and you were told by your sister's lover that the Sara that would emerge would not be the real Sara........and you ignored all of that and did it anyway. YOU LITERALLY DID NOT GIVE ONE SH*T ABOUT QUENTIN, THEA, NYSSA, OR SARA'S FEELING WHEN YOU DID THIS SH*T. AND NOW WHEN YOUR SISTER IS KILLING PEOPLE AND HAS HOSPITALIZED A FAMILY FRIEND, YOU HAVE THE DISRESPECTFUL AUDACITY TO FIX YOUR STUPID-ASS LIPS TO SAY "BUT WHAT ABOUT ME?" BITCH, IF YOU DON'T GET THE F*CK OUTTA HERE WITH THAT BULLSH*T. What you're "going through" is the most irrelevant thing in the entirety of Arrow's universe.

I am loving seeing Constantine! I'm just so freaking happy.

DIGGLE'S BROTHER'S NAME WAS ON THAT LIST OF PEOPLE GETTING DELETED BY NEAL MCDONOUGH'S VIRUS. Guys, what if Diggle's brother worked for HIVE?

How the hell did Sara get in to Thea's room without both Stupid-Ass Laurel and Oliver seeing her?

Why does Sara keep speaking in another language? Is there someone else's soul in her body?

Neal Mcdonough: "Are you sticking around for a cupcake or something?" I love him.

So Andrew was a criminal? Diggle is not gonna be happy about that.

DAMN! SARA BEATING EVERYBODY'S ASS.

OLIVER JUST CALLED CONSTANTINE! WE GET TO SEE HIM IN PRESENT DAY. IS ANYONE ELSE AS HAPPY AS I AM ABOUT THIS?

I'm glad that Quentin is being included. I was gonna be annoyed if they did this without telling him. THEY NEVER TELL HIM SH*T.

WAIT WAIT WAIT....WAIT A MINUTE. SO THEY WENT TO THE OTHER SIDE........AND SOMEHOW ENDED UP IN THEIR SUPER HERO COSTUMES?!! SHENANIGANS.

Of course as soon as they get to the other side, Stupid-Ass Laurel immediately runs off.

I hope Constantine is calling up Manny (that was the angel's name right?)

Aaaww, no Manny.

Who are these people holding Sara? They look like previous Ra'ses (how do you pluralize Ra's?)

CAN Y'ALL HURRY UP?! DAMN. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO PULL SOMEBODY OUT OF A SWIMMING POOL?!

Constantine has heard of Damian? That can't be good.

What did Constantine just do to Oliver? What's with that tattoo?

Aaww, poor Diggle. I can only imagine what it must be like to find out your brother was a super criminal.

HOW MANY F*CKING ENERGY DRINKS DID CURTIS DRINK!!?? I MEAN DAMN. HOW IS HE NOT DEAD OR SOMETHING?

Felicity finally knows that Ray is alive!!!

THE PROMOS SHOW THAT NEAL MCDONOUGH HAS RAY!!! HOW THE HELL DID HE EVEN FIND HIM?!

Final Thoughts: I enjoyed this episode mostly because of Constantine. It was great seeing him and he actually made the flashbacks interesting which they haven't been for like 2 seasons. Let's all cross our fingers and hope that the CW adds Constantine to the lineup, it fits perfectly with Arrow and Flash as well as Supernatural. Or add him to the roster on Legends. MAKE IT HAPPEN.
More+
3
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I'm with you on both Constantine and on Laurel's diatribe about how raising her soulless affects her feelings. Yeah, I'm so not impressed with Laurel on this entire plot line.

Constantine should have always been on the CW, it's right in that genre.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Dude, Laurel can kick boulders. I am so completely over her. Her decision to raise Sara has had zero affect on her. It has affected Lance and Nyssa who had to see someone they love as this soulless monster, it affected Thea for obvious reason, and it affected the 5 people she murdered. For Laurel, the only affect it may have had was it maybe kinda sorta made her feel a little bit bad when her sister was murdering and trying to murder Thea. Other than that....nothing. I don't understand why the writers go out of their way to make Laurel so damn dumb and clueless. Why?

If the CW can't give him his own show, they could put him on Legends. I really think that could work.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Thank you for mirroring my feelings at the "what about my feelings" speech. And I love Constantine too! The tatoo was always on Oliver's body and now we know how he got it. I am so pleased.
Now I wonder if someone is going to tell Dinah Lance that Sara is alive again.
4
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Laurel's "what about me" speech was the literal worst thing she could have said in that moment and the fact it did not occur to her at all is just horrible. This is why people continue to dislike her. I totally never noticed that tattoo before but I'm glad there's a valid reason for it.

They will probably tell Dinah after she's been alive for like a year cuz that's when they writers will remember she exists.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
I understand that they probably can't have Alex Kingston only for a moment but they could include a scene where Laurel tells Oliver something like "mom really can't believe it when I told her". It would be silly but at least it would have more sense than not telling her anything. Or forgot about her like they forgot Syn
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Oh yeah, is that fancy knife of Damien's going to prove to be the only thing that can kill him? If so, I like the fact it's tantalisingly on display...
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I'm suggesting a new drinking game, have a shot every time Oliver apologizes.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
why dos it always feels ruched and i mean not the action part,it most of the time has a cheesy dialog comments,and in the action you dont see much of the actaul fightning would like to see a longer action part with out the shaking cam,but then again i do love the show :)

but as far for Constantine living in this world eum arrow has angels to now? little weird







Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
think arrow is a garenteed long running show now,so with next season i realy would like to see clark kent as superBOY they could do that and barry it would be an green arrow superboy flash party who would not want that

the liqued stuff that makes people stronger then strong could be a mix of kryptonite as it was green,could explore that more,as we all know kryptonite is still around evrywhere
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Oh yeah, you can count on Arrow being around for some time because Stephen Amell has built a big enough fanbase through social media who will stick around to sustain the show even if it gets completely shit. Smart move by Amell. I doubt we will see Superboy though.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
i was looking forward to this ep because Constantine is in it but came out to be real lame. am glad sara is alive again and all
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Lame? I think most people liked Constantine in here. I know I did.
4
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
me too
Reply
Flag
Feb 24, 2016
I like him to, but i was hoping for more action from him on that ep.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I don't know if it is the show's directors, the editors, if the budget got cut (or reappropriated to SFX), or what - but episode after episode of this season has just felt poorly constructed. This week it was the pacing, I don't know if they were planning for it to be a two-parter at first or something, but it just felt so off.

On a concept level, I don't really dislike anything they're doing this season, but the execution... yeah, it hasn't been very good.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
The quality of this show is progressively going downhill, and it's picking up speed.
I despised season 3 and season 4 isn't really exciting me so far. They really need some better writers.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I can't really judge season 4 because most if it is still undoing or cleaning up season 3's messes (to launch the new series).

If I exclude all that, season 4 might be looking pretty good, but we have only gotten 1 or 2 episodes worth of that story so far.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Agreed. For example, Quentin getting back on track this week greatly helped for me.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I found that Caity Lotz was great as crazy soul-less Sara. Better than regulat Sara.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
She looked like she was having a blast doing it, and I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that there'll be at least one of those moments in the S4 blooper reel--as easily as the other actors have cracked up in the S1-S3 bloopers.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
indeed! she looked really confident, a better fit for the actress probably, although I do like regular Sara.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Darhk actually flinched at the mention of Andy, so it's highly unlikely he was telling the truth about his assasination.

3
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Plus, if Darhk has any contacts inside or any A/V access to the server center, it wouldn't take long at all to connect the dots.

Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Have we seen that tatoo (that Constantine transferred to Oliver) on Oliver's abdomen before? Or do we assume he somehow "activated" it before returning home and thus removing it?

Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Look at the banner image on the right-hand side of this very page (with Oliver suspended by chains) - you can see that it is there.

It's always been one of the multiple tattoos that started out as being part of Oliver's mysterious past (along with the replica of Shado's tattoo that Slade gave him in S2's flashbacks, and the Bratva Star that we don't know how he got yet, but can probably assume has something to do with KG Beast who we've already seen in flashbacks).
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I don't think he still has it, so ya, it's probably gone after it was used for whatever it was used for.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I am sure the tatoo was there when he was "killed" by Ra's and in the first episode of this season, when Felicity mentioned that he removed the Heir of Demon tatoo, she didn't mention any other tatoo disappearing.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
It's definatly still there on his torso he had it on him the episode before last when he was working out, the only tattoo that he has removed is the dragon from his back.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Maybe if he used it on the island in the final fight in flashback land and it's still on his body than maybe he can use it again. Prefebly with contantine next to him
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
So, I wonder if it will end up getting used in the fight against Darhk. Hmmm...
1
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I wish I could go back and watch the ep from last week or the week before when he was doing the pull up ladder jumps. Felicity walks in, looks at him, and says, "I'm so glad we're back!"

That would have had a clear view of his torso and we could see if it was there or not.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I was kind of hoping Constantine would help Thea with her blood rage while he was there.

3
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
So, we found Sara's soul in an other-world Lazarus pit, being held captive by demons.

Do you think her sould was always there? Or, did the lazerus pit snatch her soul from where it was and give it to the pit?

Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Maybe that demon entity resurrected Sara's body through Lazarus Pit (escaping it's captivity). But there has to be balance to all things, therefore Sara's soul got trapped, taking demon's place. Or maybe we'll find out next week :P
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I loved seeing Constantine, but in all honesty, how does that one exposure to John give Oliver the confidence that he can actually bring back Sarah's soul?

IF he's seen him in action doing various things or maybe kept in contact with him, that would be one thing, but their phone call suggested they'd not had contact since that island adventure.

Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I'm presuming that the tattoo Constantine gave him got Oliver out of something by using magic it could be a protection spell or it could have been johns phone number that is something John would do.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
No. Apparently, he still has that tattoo, suggesting he may use it against Darhk.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
And yet, Constantine has him on his caller Id. I think they talked a couple of times since his first encounter. Constantine probably told him something about exorcisms and the likes.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Let's just presume that they chatted for a bit under the tunnel. An that Oliver track him down when he left the island to come home.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
How is Love, American Style the mother of Happy Days in any way, shape or form? As I recall, LAS was a series of skits that pushed the envelope about love and sex in the 70s. I don't see the spin off or shared universe to Happy Days (a show about the 50s) at all. What am I missing?
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhFDkatc-e4
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
But, Wikipedia backs you up! :) Color me dumbfounded.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
That was on the Love American Style TV show? That's such an odd departure of their norm.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I liked Constantine enough to keep watching but I wasn't particularly sad when it was cancelled... but this episode kind of made me miss the show. It doesn't surprise me that he was on it though, it might have been an NBC show but it was produced by WB like Gotham is even though it's on Fox and really, production company is all that matters. If Constantine was still on air it might have been different, networks not wanting to basically cross promote each other. The whole owe you one scenario is kind of lame but I think it might have been the best case since the two characters don't really hang in the same circles, even though it was obviously from near star that he'd have to help Sarah get her soul back using magic.

I also like how Oliver has seemed to loosen up this season, sometimes Stephen Amell's delivery when he was too stern kind of came off bad-actory.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Constantine's crossovers in the comics were generally one-offs, he wasn't someone you could rely upon, so having him appear here and not be part of the larger story feels appropriate to the Hellblazer. That said, this was fun enough and Constantine's warning about Dahrk big enough that it seemed like we wouldn't be best served by never seeing him on Arrow again.

Oddly, I have no concerns over Laurel's actions regarding Sara, they don't weigh on me at all during the episode. Laurel is impulsive and wracked with guilt over Sara's first disappearance and Tommy's death and all sorts of Laurel material, growing isn't always the ability to not look back. Ollie's reaction to learning what Laurel did even felt fairly clean, she stated the premise of what he might do in the past as a buffer, then he turned that on its ear with instead a very practical, reasonable retort. And I liked that, it's organic character growth.

Didja notice Barrowman's name in the credits? What was that about? Has it been there all season and I never noticed?

I watched all of Constantine and liked it (he got a ciggy on the show at least once), I'd say this Arrow episode got the character beats right, but didn't bring the tone that surrounds the show's John Constantine with him, so it's like watching Indiana Jones do a cameo on Marvel's Agents of SHIELD.

Parker Young was such a weird casting choice, I can almost guarantee you he's going to be a baddie, but I kinda wish they'd red-herring his character into being a normie.
More+
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Barrowman was promoted to series regular over a year ago and has stayed there. @atomicphlea made a joke about his expected longevity with the show in her photo recap of "The Climb" last season.

If you've caught his panel interviews, he has no intentions of leaving, as he's having too much fun chowing down on the scenery.

(Although you never know when he'll cross paths with a certain Time Lord again.)

Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I really, really hope he makes a new appearance in Doctor Who, probably with Arya Stark
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I hadn't noticed in all this time, that's crazy because he's barely on half the episodes.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
While TV crossover are not a new thing, I was totally surprised as Constantine was on NBC and a different show runner. I gave up on Constantine after 2 episodes but I liked him here so perhaps he is better as a supporting character.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
It was a really great episode! Team Arrow-Constantine was awesome!

Arrow's season 4 is significantly improved! Episode 5 and it remains focused and energetic! So, it's a fact; Arrow has officially entered the realm of supernatural, great move!

Damn... I so missed Matt Ryan's Constantine! NBC canceled Constantine, I hope CW will keep him alive and above all coming back!

I had great time today! It was a delightful episode!
7
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
The beginning of this season has been one long introduction to Legends of Tomorrow. And they still have to solve the mystery of Palmer. Sigh...
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I smirked at Constantine using a dead peacock's feather to scratch his back. Nice one, Berlanti.
9
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Holy Shit! I thought that was a really odd part, But I totally get it now!! WOW thats amazing and hilarious!!!
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
His lower back, to boot (as I noted earlier). ;)
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Thanks for pointing out that meta symbolism, I missed it, and am glad I can now fully enjoy it.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
This was a very good episode in many ways.

It finally resolved Sara's return to the world.

The flashback gave Oliver and John an excellent and plausible reason for their connection and present day familiarity.

In turn, using Constantine in order to help Sara regain her 'soul' was a good gambit, predictable in that I knew of this the moment the Legends of Tomorrow show was advertised with Sara's character as the "White Canary" and that Constantine was going to be a guest on the Arrow show, so, the anticipation is now over.

What isn't sure, is whether or not Constantine will show up again in order to help Team Arrow deal with Damien Darhk. I think he will, it would be a waste of a good character and resource not too.

This episode also provided some form of resolution for Diggle's obsession with his brother's death.

The last part of the show was the message from Ray Palmer. Now we know that the next few shows will definitively deal with rescuing Palmer from where ever he is. He shrank, that much we can easily ascertain, but he must be in trouble, we've not seen him reappear anywhere.

Now, it will be interesting to see how Thea and Sara will deal from the repercussions of being resurrected. Thea is always fighting, because she can't face her killer, but Sara.. will she be cured? or will she have to fight impulses to 'not' kill Thea?

Detective Lance, I wonder if this will be his last season, surely, because of involvement with Darhk, whatever resolution happens at the end of this, will not be all happy endings.

Also we need to remember that the end of the first episode of Arrow where someone dies... Definitively.

Who will it be?

Felicity, Thea, Detective Lance or Diggle.. he would shed a tear for all of them except Lance.. anyways, as far as i know.
More+
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Lance too. HAven't you seen how affected he was for Lance working with Darhk? He means a lot to Oliver, even when he didn't say it ofteb,
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I didn't realize Constantine was another show, I assumed he was going to be a new character in Legends of Tomorrow. Is he not crossing over? That would be a bummer considering I thought, "Hey cool, ONE good character will be on Legends."

"So while it resulted in some tough exchanges between Oliver and Laurel, I just couldn't buy any of it given the context in which all of this was happening" THIS. I could not agree more. No one gives a sh*t what Laurel is going through. She's a freaking idiot and makes reckless decisions, including this one. This did not feel meaningful in any way. I think Oliver has considered Laurel an equal. He's let go tremendously on trying to keep them all safe, even telling Detective Lance that she can take care of herself (Despite her getting her a$$ kicked week after week.) Of all the dumb a$$ decisions Laurel has made, this was definitely one that deserved the group's backlash. Her talking about HER feelings after all of this was just annoying, not moving.

The magic stuff is not working for me. I half expected Oliver and Constantine to run into the characters from the Vampire Diaries after mentioning his grimoire.
More+
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
He probably got Constantine's number off of his business card that the black boss on lian yu took from him.. its pretty much the 2nd thing Constantine says is:"That's what it says on my card that your boss took from me" so is it hard to believe that he got the number from that?

He even hands a card to Laurel before he performs the restorisim(sp?)
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I think the question was how Constantine had Oliver on his caller ID, as Oliver probably didn't have that number when he was on the island. But I think they talk a couple of times by phone. For instance, Constantine didn't seem surprised to see Oliver in a Robin Hood costume :-)
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Handing out his business cards as a Master Of The Dark Arts is part of Constantine's schtick.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I actually enjoyed this episode for the most part. I tried to watch Constantine but gave it up after a few episodes. He was fine here though, and it would be nice to see him make another appearance since he's relevant to the current mystical plot with Darhk. I understand why they gave him the island meeting with Oliver, but that island must be the worst kept secret deserted island in the history of ever lol. I will never stop being amused by the "deserted island" thing. I just hope Felicity's line of "I'm just glad he's not another gorgeous woman" isn't foreshadowing some more ladies from Oliver's past popping up. For someone who was supposed to still be in love with Laurel, he sure did get around (before and after - ugh, this backstory is sooooo icky.) I'm never sure if this is the writers retconning the whole Lauliver love story or if (more likely) we're meant to assume that it just wasn't meant to be, but they've totally unraveled their star-crossed lovers story at this point. I sincerely hope they don't try to retread that ground later because that horse is definitely dead.

I like Curtis Holt a lot and I'd like to see more of him. I thought Thea had some interesting scenes in this episode as well, and I'm interested in seeing how she deals with her blood lust. Diggle is still being woefully underused, but those were some very fine scenes between Ramsey and Blackthorne. More of that, please, and more of Diggle's story. That can't be the end of the Andy/HIVE story. And Ray's alive! Yeah, sorry, Ray - don't really care. But I will be happy to get this spinoff going so we can concentrate on the Arrow characters. I admit I laughed when I realized that despite reports of a blonde woman killing people, Laurel had failed to tell anyone that Zombie Sara was on the loose. I swear Katie Cassidy must have run over someone's dog in the Arrow lot or something because the writers give her some of the worst stories on this show. I honestly don't think she's as bad as she used to be - in the interest of being fair, at least she's relevant to the main plot now and not just drifting idly in and out of scenes - but her characterization is still all over the place and unfortunately, they still write her in a way that makes her appear selfish. After everything they put her (and frankly, us the audience) through last season in order to stuff her into that suit by mid-season, they've now made decisions that undid what little, organic character growth she managed to experience in season 3. None of this makes sense, and then she was ready to just shoot Sara after all that? WTH, Arrow writers? KC isn't my fave actress or anything, but she deserves better than this. While Oliver rarely has a moral high ground (and yeah, that Oliver doesn't see her as an equal is apparent) she didn't really come off any better in their scenes. The only time I can remember thinking she was 100% in the right was when Oliver decided to read her the riot act back in season 2 after attending the Lance family dinner with Sara. Sure, Laurel was being a bitch but I thought she had a right to be upset there, and it was clear that her anger over the Oliver/Sara situation had never allowed her to properly grieve. You can only bury your feelings for so long before they blow up. At another time I would have thought Oliver was justified in telling it to her straight, but in that moment it all came off as a pretty douchewad move "Sorry I showed up at your family dinner and I'm sleeping with your little sister (again) and hiding it (again) but let me tell you what sucks about you!" Geez - never was it more apparent that the showrunners were a bunch of dudes because that whole backstory and Oliver sleeping with Sara again screamed Dude Fantasy.
More+
5
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
" I swear Katie Cassidy must have run over someone's dog in the Arrow lot or something because the writers give her some of the worst stories on this show" BAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I was going to say that in my post above- it really seems like the writers just don't like her as a person. It almost seems like a personal grudge against her as a person that she gets such terrible plots. Sadly, I don't think that it can be remedied at this point. I think they mis-cast her in the first place and she was the wrong person to play Laurel. They realized it but it was just too late. That happens from time to time on shows. But I guess I don't understand why they keep writing them in and either forcing it or having no real story for them. Why don't they just release the actor from their contract and move on?
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
They way they've been writing her, I can't tell between them abusing her because they know so much of the fan base hates on her character, and making her look bad because they're going to kill her off the show (literally* or figuratively).

*no, I don't mean they're going to murder Katie Cassidy, grammar nazis, I just meant 'literally' as in killing Laurel vs. writing the character off.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Well, joking aside (I'm sure it's nothing personal against the actress) I think it's clear they just don't, and likely never will, have a good handle on her character. She was more or less a Rachel Dawes rip-off from the beginning, and she was there to be the love interest, which was disrespectful to the source material since Dinah Lance's story never revolved around Oliver in that way - she should have had her own story/destiny that started evolving from the very first season, and they wasted a lot of potential on OTP crap and bizarre, weirdly incestuous love triangles (I read Kreisberg is a V.C. Andrews fan, so I blame him for this since he also wrote some of the worst GA/BC books.) Whether it's because they don't care enough to dig into the character or whether they're just too busy with Oliver's story and managing their spinoffs to do anything interesting with her, I don't know - I suspect the latter. I don't think they ever had a clear plan for her, and after the abuse both the character and the actress got in season 2, I think they thought they should just put her in the costume as quickly as possible and be done with it. There's no other reason for her origin story to have been as rushed and half-assed as it was in the beginning of season 3. I feel sorry for KC - I don't know her from anything other than Arrow since I never watched Supernatural or the CW soaps she appeared in, but I agree she was just a miscast here. I got that feeling as early as the second episode of season 1 (I think I said as much in my comments here back in 2012) and I've never really changed my mind. But even with another actress in the role, we'd still be dealing with terrible story, so I don't know that another actress would have made a difference anyway.
More +
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Waah! Where do I reply, when there's no reply button? TV.com needs to fix that, too (aside from the edit button). ^^
This is the answer to your previous post: "I was really impressed by the evolution of the character Major on iZombie. I was annoyed by his presence at first because he was boring and felt completely superfluous to the plot - he was hot,..."
Again, I absolutely agree with you. iZombie has proven, that (fast) character development is possible. (Although, Major never really bothered me, because I saw him as a reminder of what Liv has lost.)
Then again, it's the creator of "Veronica Mars" we are dealing with, so I was expecting a lot of character development. I wish, Arrow had at least one writer with that kind of talent on his team.
With Laurel they seem to have gone "Well, let's pick some sexy actress, who looks good in a tight leather gear", without thinking about everything else Black Canary stands for. The role asks for much more than just being pretty.
I'm constantly asking myself, if KC has lied on her resume, so that she was picked for the role. Kind of "yeah, I do kickboxing, can lift 400 lbs and do parkour and freerunning on the side...". :D
When I see Laurel now, I just think: "There's a pretty headstone waiting to be decorated with your name...."


More +
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Completely agree with you. The Black Canary is one of my favorite superheroes, but on Arrow I just despise her character. I wish, that Alex Kingston had played the first BC, she has such a great screen presence, that she'd overcome the physical parts, easily (and that way, it would have made much more sense to handle the mantle down to her daughter).
I think, that Arrow made a big mistake in casting Laurel Lance with KC . If it was a show like, say, Supergirl, you can go for the skinny type with no muscle-tone whatsoever, but not on a show, where you need to be physically convincing. The moment Sara entered the stage, KC's lack of, well, everything, was too apparent to ignore. Sara maybe lacking in the acting department (although I find her greatly improved), but I don't care, because I love watching her fight. After all, it's a show based on a comic. I expect fight scenes not to look too ridiculous and the actors not to stumble around like they're drunk.
So, I can live with the fact, that Laurel has been written into a corner, because I don't care for her and I'm happy, if I don't have to endure too much scenes with her (which I tend to fast forward).
I'm glad, that Sara's back (her death was so stupid and insulting), but sad to see her go. Hopefully, they make good use of her in Legends of Tomorrow.
And by the way, I'm loving the lack of romance drama, which we can enjoy right now. It's nice to see some relationship stuff with Oliver and Felicity, but it has taken the back seat, as it should be. Please keep it that way!
(But Olly sure is allowed to pop that question and blind Felicity with a real big one! ^^)


P.S.: Please! I need an EDIT button!
(I don't want to remove my posts constantly, because I can't stand to have typos in them. :D)
More +
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I was really impressed by the evolution of the character Major on iZombie. I was annoyed by his presence at first because he was boring and felt completely superfluous to the plot - he was hot, but that's about it. The first season is only 13 episodes, and that guy went from yawn-worthy to one of the most interesting characters in about 10-11 episodes, and the writers made his transition believable. His character development was beautiful. If they had tried to tell me he'd achieve that sort of growth in 10 orvso episodes, i wouldn't have believed it was possible. That's the kind of story arc Laurel needed but after 3 seasons, I doubt we'll ever get it. I totally agree with you on Sara. No, Caity Lotz isn't the best actress on the show but she's gotten better IMO, and her physicality is perfect for the role of BC. Watching her do her own fight scenes is such a pleasure.
1
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I don't know the comic, but early on, I felt the writing for female characters on the show was really weak and that Cassidy had mainly been chosen because she looked like she was actually drawn by a comic artist and they assumed the audience would mostly be fanboys who would be satisfied by that. She was never believable as a tough cop's daughter, as a capable attorney, a real crimefighter, even as an alcoholic--I still can't tell if this is a failure of writing, casting, or acting, but the lack of chemistry with Ollie was the biggest dealbreaker. And boy did they completely waste Alex Kingston. The only 3d female character early on was Felicity, and that seemed to be because they wrote a male nerd in a cute girl's body, which was maybe less alien to the writers. But it did get better, maybe due to the luck of casting but definitely due to improved writing; Sarah became quite good, Thea's role developed beautifully, Nyssa was great, etc.

I feel sorry for KC as well. I said after Restoration that it must have really rankled for her to have to play out that garbage approach to resurrecting Sarah. I would like to see her off Arrow but I also would like for her to end up on a show where she's a good fit, better appreciated and likes what she's doing. The show runners' failure with Laurel should not stain her career forever. But I do suspect Stephen Amell has really stuck up for her because he's a decent guy and she's part of the Arrow family. He can only do that so much though.
More +
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I still miss Moira, a strong character. But there were others, Shado, Katana, Dinah Lance. It's a pity they kill them or send them off (is someone going to tell Dinah that Sara is back??)
2
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
@poetgirl925 You're right, I forgot about Moira, though I can't remember if she was one that started off kind of 2d and improved along with the writing, like others did. Susanna Thompson was very good. I agree about 'strong' female characters not necessarily needing to be kickass like men. And I don't think they've avoided creating strong female characters, I just feel they weren't very good at it off the bat. But happily it's improved, and fortunately most of the cast were talented (or a good enough fit to run with those improvements.
1
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Early on I thought Moira was the strongest female character. I almost dropped Arrow but kept watching for Moira and Diggle - by mid-season I was also invested in Felicity, and later in the flashbacks with Slade and Shado. I think Moira and Felicity proved early on that they could write strong female characters, and Shado, Sara and Nyssa all had a strong presence, so I don't understand why they struggled so much with Laurel - they seemed to think having her bust out a basic self-defense move or shoot a gun made her strong, and I'm starting to resent this idea of what makes a female character 'strong' - a lot of shows are guilty of this now. And they managed to develop Thea realistically. She wanted to learn to defend herself after watching her mother be murdered - she didn't want to be a vigilante. That psychological step was important in her evolution and it was believable.
2
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Well I think the writers realized, as the rest of us did, that they completely miscast her. The storyline for the entire season isn't written at the beginning, they change it throughout and the obvious lack of chemistry, I'm sure, changed the writers plans with her. Then they were stuck with this character that they started a story with but know it isn't working and so they're sort of changing it as they go, resulting in what we have seen in the past several seasons. And this is obvious in them ditching Laurel for Felicity and Katie Cassidy has actually been very vocal on twitter and in interviews about basically being shelved as a character. She doesn't seem too happy about it. They definitely just scrapped their original plans for her character.Had they cast someone that could have pulled the role off as they imagined, it would have looked very differently. On screen chemistry is a huge part of it and Oliver and Felicity just have it in LOADS. The chemistry between Olive and Laurel was never believable and then to throw in something with her sister was just the worst decision ever. Super gross- as you noted. Especially because he moved back and forth between the two a couple times, between the flash backs, etc.
More +
3
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Chemistry is subjective, but I never saw it between them either. Still, scrapping the love story between Oliver and Laurel shouldn't have had any bearing on her role as Black Canary AT ALL. In my opinion, they could still have evolved her character in that direction in a better way - I know that Dinah Laurel was always the second BC in comics (after her mother) but the problem is that they didn't introduce Sara as a way to jumpstart Laurel's path - not really. I think they wanted their BC right away, and they wanted drama, and so they brought Sara in. Now, I love Sara's character, and I think she was a good addition to the Arrow world (icky sister swapping aside) but that wasn't the best thing for Laurel's character. Really, I don't blame KC if she's unhappy because she's not wrong - her character did get shelved and then they fridged Sara and rushed Laurel through all the superhero stages in a few episodes. Very little of that reflected well on Laurel as a character, but she managed to achieve some character growth from it. Only now they threw that out the window "because spinoff." You're right - it's probably too late to really make Laurel the character she should have been. I just try to find something positive in her from episode to episode so that I'm not so annoyed by what could have been.
More +
1
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
This was easily one of my fave episodes of Arrow since S2.

Constantine was as awesome as he was on his show! Please bring his show back on CW. He could have fun crossovers with Oli and Sara on Legends.

I loved how Sara wiped the floor with Thea. She gave the kid a great reality check on her fighting skills, something Oliver's been too nice to do.

Laurel...well, at least she's being consistent.

Lance and Constantine should've shared quips about that dead peacock feather. ;p
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Actually, Thea did so badly because she was drunk when they faced off in the apartment.

Slurring her speech and saying "drunk things" while hanging up on Ollie.

That's not to say that Thea is definitely on equal footing with Sara, but they're probably not that far apart. I mean, Laurel trained for a few weeks with Nyssa and could take on simultaneous Assasins without breaking a sweat. I imagine Merlin's instructions were at least as strict.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
It was good to see Quentin back to his pre-back half of S3 self pulling into the Arrowcave and especially giving Dig respect by eating humble pie. Paul Blackthorne nailed all of his scenes with David Ramsey.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
I need to see a crossover Dresden Files - Constantine
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
:Sigh: Any progress they made with Laurel just went out the window these last 3 episodes

You never saw me as an equal!
Really? You're making this all about you, while my sister is in the hospital room nextdoor due to your mistake. Fine, let's go down the list

+Because you tried to fight crime before you knew how to fight?
+ Then you took some kickboxing lessons for a few weeks, and STILL tried to fight crime with weak-sauce skills?
+ Then you maybe had decent skills for a few weeks before I left to live a happy ending and have been at this for a couple months while I was gone

Friend? Sure. Ally? Sure. Equal... nope.

But it's fine to use the pit on Thea?!

Umm, Thea was just dying of a mortal wound.

Your sister was a corpse for around half a year; a decayed husk long since passed. You literally saw and learned everything you needed to know, INCLUDING more than I did about how f'ed up the pit is... and you chose to do it anyway.
9
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Yep.

2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Man, who in the hell is Thea's stunt double? She earned a years worth of pay in that episode alone. Fantastic work, as Sara kicked Thea's ass all over Star City last night. The apartment, hospital, and that toss against the stairs in the club.

Great episode.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
This episode Melissa Jin doubled for Willa Holland but she's not Willa's only double.
2
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Thanks.
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Every time I've seen casting info regarding Parker Young I've always wondered, "Is this going to be the role where he plays a serious character?"

I cannot tell you how hilarious (and awesome) I find it that the first time I've seen him take on a dramatic role (dramatic in the sense that everything else I've seen him in he's played a dummy) is Arrow. Haha, I hope he sticks around for a while.

As for the rest of this episode:
-Matt Ryan is great as Constantine, and it would've been cool if this was a two-part episode so the writers could've fleshed out the Oliver/Constantine connection better
-Laurel continues to be written terribly, recently, for the sake of LoT
-Lance gave the security at that federal facility his name and position, and then just took off with Diggle... which isn't suspicious at all
-I'm with everyone else who've mentioned how weird it is that no one bothered to ask Constantine if he could help with Thea's problem
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
NOW I get it! It all makes sense now. Laurel is acting like a complete twit in bringing Sara back to life and the producers are doing the exact same thing with Constantine. Sara and Constantine, neither should have died when they did, but both should have stayed in the ground. So, who still thinks this was a good idea?

Wait, Laurel didn't even tell anybody Sara escaped? {sigh}

Thea having to explain why distancing himself from Laurel further confirms that dbag Oliver from season 3 has been carried over to season 4.

FINALLY, somebody calls out Oliver on his hypocrisy! Unfortunately is dumbass Laurel who's argument is completely wrong. As for the rest of her whoa is me speech...STFU

Should I ask on what floor Thea's room was to figure out how far Sara's fall out the window was? Probably not.

WTF? Man, Laurel sure is fickle when it comes to changing her mind about killing Sara.

I forget how long ago the announcement came out about this Constantine crossover. Unfortunately, that means they've had months to concoct this absurd story arc and decided to go ahead with it anyway. And in all that time, the best they could come up with was a cheap ripoff of 'What Dreams May Come'?{sigh} This show is SO bad...lol

HOLY CRAP! Did Oliver just have a moment of self awareness about his secret keeping? Huzzah!

Thea: "I know why you're here. I want you to know it's okay. I want you to do it."

THIS makes me very nervous that it's her headstone we saw in that flash forward. Thea being one of the few characters left on this show who, more often than not, demonstrates some level of basic sense, losing her would be highly problematic for me. Though, even with her, Arrow is a complete gong show so I suppose it doesn't much matter now that i think about it.

"Hey, Diggle! I hope you appreciated learning more about your brother"

After ALL that. Two years of carrying that thread forward, they resolve it with a, "He basically had it coming"? Ugh, this show.
More+
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
That better not be Thea's headstone, but I had the same thought. And yeah, the Andy Diggle thing was problematic for me because that was anticlimactic for a mystery that's been going on for so long. I assume that's not the end of it. Oddly enough, while I couldn't watch Constantine the show (I gave it up after a few episodes) I didn't mind him so much here.
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Two seasons to sort out the Diggle brother arc and the best they could come up with is, "That's what you get"? Furhter evidence as to how bad the writing on this show really is.

But, in the words of Simon Gruber, "Yes, he was an asshole. But there's a difference, between not liking one's brother and not caring when some dumb Irish flatfoot drops him out of a window"

Diggle will still want his revenge.
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
I wasn't a fan of Constantine and this crossover was just enough of it.

How did Sara get in to Thea's hospital room when Laurel was right outside the room and all the windows were closed?
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Ever play any of the Batman Arkham video games?
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Nope. Soooooo, how?
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Ventilation ducts are the most common.
Reply
Flag
Nov 07, 2015
It's also very lame. But you are right it is a possibility.
Flag
Nov 05, 2015
Why can't Constantine be recruited by Legends? I mean in some incarnations Savage has magic doesn't he?
1
Reply
Flag
Nov 06, 2015
Because on LOT, Arthur Darvill gets to wear the trenchcoat.
Reply
Flag
Load More Comments