Arrow "Lone Gunmen" Review: Mostly Dead On

Arrow S01E03: "Lone Gunmen"

I admit that I sort of don’t know where to start this week, if only because there were a number interesting and exciting things at work in “Lone Gunmen.” So let’s start a bit with the issues of morality that were addressed. (And judging from the tease, will also carry over into next week.)

There’s been considerable discussion, both in the comments on last week's review and elsewhere on the internet, about Oliver loosing arrows on the bodyguards and other security forces of the folks on the list. There is, as has been noted, an odd disconnect between the fact that Oliver is targeting the corrupt Richie Riches of Starling City, but is leaving them in the hands of the law, and how he seems to have no problem firing arrows into the working class of the private security world.

The episode kind of addressed this, but it was hardly in a useful, let alone clarifying, way. Oliver’s voiceover intoned that Deadshot “has no morality, no code. He doesn't kill for justice.” Is this how Oliver is justifying filling bodyguards with arrows...? Later on, during the big fight, there was a brief, “We’re not so different, you and I” moment between the two accuracy pros, and Oliver maintained the unselfish nature of his quest compared to Deadshot’s mercenary ways.

We don’t know whether the mooks Oliver’s shooting are dying or not, so it seems presumptuous to presume either way (though most folks seem to be leaning toward they’re dead as doornails). The issue then is grounded in the extent of the violence that Oliver inflicts, and that’s where the dissonance is. These security guys may or may not be aware of the corruption of their bosses, but they’re (potentially mortally) wounded by Oliver while the bosses get carted off to jail based on evidence that would be examined in court (in our world, anyway).

As I’ve said in comments, I think that part of this is the show angling to darken and grim things up, but it’s also irresponsible to dismiss it purely as that; unfortunately the show doesn’t offer a clear, in-narrative answer. Oliver’s “it’s for justice” perspective isn’t fleshed out enough to make any solid comments, but it puts him more in line with someone like Marvel’s The Punisher than it does with other, less lethal heroes/vigilantes. It’s something to keep an eye on, and I’ll make sure to bring it up in my reviews as we go forward (and I’m sure you all have thoughts as well, and I want to read them!).

So what about the episode as a whole? It was a big step up from last week’s second episode-itis, as the plot didn’t feel squeezed into the second half of the episode. I think we’re also getting a sense of what this show is going to be, which is a superhero procedural mixed with some decent character work. I freely admit that this approach works for me as both elements are things that I respond to in narratives.

The procedural aspect is probably the one that needs the most amount of work, but it’s still largely satisfying. I enjoyed Oliver working through toxicity and ballistic reports (including from wall climbing) in the Arrow Cave, running it through Interpol to get Deadshot's name, and then strolling up to the headquarters of Starling City’s RUSSIAN MOB, flashing his RUSSIAN MOB CAPTAIN TATTOO, and then heading in to confront Deadshot. It was all pretty easy, I admit, but I liked that there was a process involved, some investigative work.

The show has been less successful with Quentin, and I’m becoming convinced that it doesn’t exactly know what it wants to do with him yet. His scenes with his partner (I know he’s named Hilton, but have they actually said his name on the show?) feel very information-delivery-focused, and that’s never a good thing. And Quentin’s visit to the pool here seemed... pointless? Maybe I missed something while he gazed at buildings, but still.

But it’s the character stuff that I imagine we’ll be talking about a good bit, so let’s get to it: Diggle knows, guys. And it’s awesome. I’m giving serious kudos to the series for not dragging this out for several episodes. Not only does it give Oliver an ally, but it continues to develop the show’s most engaging character dynamic. Diggle’s a smart guy—I loved his bit about Oliver being the white/White knight of the Glades—and keeping this a secret for even a couple more episodes would’ve strained that thread’s credibility. It should be interesting to see where things go from here. I don’t think that Diggle’s going to be thrilled with this whole endeavor, but I also think he’s not going to get in the way (too much).

Speaking of allies, Oliver has enlisted the charmingly babbly Felicity Smoak as his tech expert. I’m not familiar with Smoak in the comics, save for the fact that she’s a software business guru, so I can’t offer much comparison, but I liked Emily Bett Rickard’s work in her few scenes. Along with Tommy, I suspect that Felicity will bring a nice bit of levity to the show.

The other big things in this episode weren’t necessarily as exciting as the Diggle stuff, or as potentially enticing as Felicity’s arrival. The show quickly dispatched with the Laurel and Tommy secret (also kudos for that), so that relationship is moving forward. Katie Cassidy and Colin Donnell seem to have a bit more chemistry than Cassidy and Stephen Amell are proving to (my enjoyment of them in the pilot aside), so their pairing should at least be a bit more interesting.

Based on last week's comments, I can only imagine how the Thea stuff played for many of you (let’s not call the character a ‘bitch’ this week, or any other time in the future, mmmmkay?). I’ll concede that her wild-girl behavior isn’t the most fleshed-out aspect of the character, but I do like that the show is being consistent with it, and that it’s giving Moira something to do other than be all secretively evil. The family stuff is probably the weakest aspect of the series so far, but there’s still plenty of time for it grow, so I’ll be patient.


NOTES


– Have at it about the island stuff in the comments. I have next to nothing to say about it this week beyond, “Oh. Look. The bottom halves of guys in generic mercenary outfits. They’re probably with Deathstroke.”

– I didn’t really talk about Deadshot! But that’s largely because he existed even less than China White did last week. The tattoo thing, to my knowledge, is unique to the show, but the wrist-mounted gun and the huge eye scope (cool image of the arrow implanted in there, and poetic, too) are from the comics. I am sad that he won’t be back. (Also: Everyone else thought Moira hired him, right?)

– Hey, so Laurel can fight a bit. One step closer to a blonde wig (or hair dye) and fishnets.

– I was all set to start an Arrow’d Mook Counter this week, but with the exception of dispatching Holder’s security force off-screen, the only person who was shot on-screen was Deadshot. Maybe I’ll start it next week?

– I rather like the idea of Oliver starting a club above the Arrow Cave. It’s a nice way to give himself something to do, keep his cover, and provide story opportunities.

– I'm going to assume the Jurgens file was named for Dan Jurgens, a comic book artist and writer. He’s worked on Green Arrow, but Jurgens is probably best known for creating the character of Booster Gold, and also for his run on the “Death of Superman” storyline of the 1990s.

– Fun fact: In the comics, Big Belly Burger is the favored fast food chain of the DC Universe and is a subsidiary of LexCorp.

– I watch shows I review with the closed captioning on so I can get spellings of locations and names when needed, and I was thoroughly amused when it spelled Felicity’s last name as Smoke instead of Smoak.

– In case you’re even passingly curious, I’ve been writing these reviews while listening to the Batman: Arkham City and Downton Abbey soundtracks. Yes, I’m very all over the map in my tastes.

Arrow "Lone Gunmen" Photos

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Did no one notice that Deadshot likely killed Diggle's brother
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I missed it above (sitting too far from the TV + taking notes), but folks have commented on it throughout the comments section. :)
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I'm fine with this episode, but I don't see how it was so much better than the second. Pretty much all the same stuff happened, minus the spoken Mandarin-Learned-In-Five-Hours (the Asian guy was fine). The ex-girlfriend, who was the screaming, shell-shocked damsel-in-distress last episode, is now a Krav Maga trained daughter of a cop, who can take care of herself. I know what's supposed to be in store for her, but if she can already fight, they should pick a role for her that matches her current skills. The sister sucked last episode and still does. If there's one thing we've learned from Terra Nova and Revolution, it's that we can't get enough of annoying teen carry-ons that do what they want, when they want.

I don't really remember when the voiceover diary segments ended in TVD, but I remember they didn't go on for too long. Voiceovers are almost always a bad thing, and there are better, more silent ways of getting the same plot points in. Ehh...CW.

Also, Oliver climbs a building in broad daylight without any kind of disguise, but then finds a baseball cap later to walk around a similarly shady place. I get that some people really like the guy's face, but in the story, he's kind of a recognizable celebrity. He should be more consistent with his 'disguises.'

Oliver did (officially) find out about his best friend and the ex, but he doesn't seem to care any more about it than I do, so while it didn't add a whole lot of that 'character advancement' for Oliver, at least, I liked that very much.

Diggle in the loop is certainly a quick twist. A lesser show would've stretched that out at least until the end of the fall season, and Arrow certainly gets points for pacing, but it'll really depend on what they do with Diggle now that he knows.

There are several ways it can go. 1) Diggle can pretty much do what he's been doing: watching Oliver's back when he can, but not freaking out about having eyes on him 24/7. Now that he knows, he can give Oliver a little more breathing room, provided that he checks in with him. 2) Diggle can give Oliver a whole lot more breathing room, accepting that Oliver can take care of himself. This sounds more like an Alfred role, where Diggle is mostly in the LZ, and only involved once Oliver's done with the good stuff. 3) With Diggle's newfound knowledge comes power, and he insists on a more active role (as the action sidekick), fighting and shooting Arrow's enemies...and slightly defeating the purpose of Oliver using arrows in the first place. Honestly, only the first scenario appeals to me.

So it was another solid episode, but I don't see why anyone that was let down by the last episode would be so much happier about this one.
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It wasn't that the same things happened, it was how those events were structured. "Honor Thy Father" barely gave scenes time to breathe (especially in the first half) as it tried to cram in as much information from the pilot as it possibly could. It left the episode feeling unbalanced and rushed.

"Lone Gunmen," thankfully, is more balanced from a structural standpoint (the procedural aspect helps this immensely because it forces a chain of events) and worked in its more premise-y bits more organically into the dialog. This is one of the reasons this episode worked, for me anyway, better than "Honor Thy Father."

As far as Diggle goes, I think option 1 the likeliest, with option 3 being the unlikeliest.

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Eh, everything you describe seems the same to me here, though I did say this episode was a bit better. The main differences with the procedural this week is that he didn't spend all his time taking a guy on his list down, instead, taking down a guy who was killing guys on his list. Also instead of speaking Mandarin to the bad guys, this week, he speaks Russian, and happens to be a Vor (Captain) in the Mafia. And finally, joining forces with his ex's dad for that reluctant bromance we CW'ers gotta have. Again, I don't see it, but w/e gets us both to Ep. 4.

As for option 1, I think a lot of people would be disappointed if Diggle got on the inside just to not really do anything with it. Again, it's what I prefer, I just hope they don't overdo it to make a big deal where there shouldn't be one.
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DIGGLE IS A BADASS HE IS A SOLDIER SO WILL HE FIGHT ALONG SIDE OLIVER THAT WOULD BE DOPE
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Diggle knows - hopefully that means that Arrow has somebody to talk to and we can dispense with the voice overs....
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Just two things: i don't think it's necessary to point out whther arrow is killing security guys or not, it doesn't make a big difference to me, if he feels he has to do it to bring justice, then that's the way it is (and screw morality)



And the other thing is that i'm actually very impressed with the visual quality of the action sequences, i think they're probably better than what any other show has (and that's even more impressive considering it's on the CW, right?)



oh, and a last thought: kill those voiceovers, they are so annoying!
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I really like this show, I do. But those voice overs, oh please do something about those voice overs?! And I don't like Oliver's stony face. Yes, he's been through a lot. Yes, he has to keep up this faade, but dude... Don't become a robot. So I really hope we'll see some more character development. Though, with more scenes from the island, I think that's a given :-)
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Abs like that AND acting talent? That's a bit much to ask....;)
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you really hit the spot! Those voice overs are so annoying....!!!!
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Beter episode than the 2d, more of the island story wil be a pleasure. A beter effort for the music please.
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I actually like how they are developing a lot of characters including the sister (who will be the sidekick eventually) and the mother. IMO the family is not the weakest aspect of the show. Maybe the dialogue, but definitely not character development. I watched all three episodes in one sitting after putting it off. As a DC Comics and Smallville fan, I'm liking the show really much. But what I can do without are the workout video scenes. Yes he is muscly, but why do they have to show a different workout session every single episode. I like the action scenes and I like how each episode ends with a cliff hanger. No wonder the ratings for the show is pretty stable.
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For me, less family and more Island flashbacks would do the trick.Kinda anti-Losty as Lost was good to watch. Considering we're just 3 eps in, it's pretty good already. Keep the darkness, CW - in the comic books I read Queen was more deadly(eager to kill) than Wayne. So into Felicity Smoak already.

I also like Noels balance between comic book history/background and tv-show review! Way to go!
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I've actually never seen the Emerald Archer portraid so dark before! Kinda reminds me of Batman. In fact Stephen Amell does a much beter version portraing this dark version of Oliver Queen than Christian Bale does portraing the current weak-ass incarnation of Batman. I'm just saying that to me this show is a monumental SUCCESS! Dare I say it, it's even better than Smallville!! o.0
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You and I must have watched different batman movies, I like this show a lot, but better than Cristopher Nolan's Batman? I don't think so
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I kinda like Arrow so far, but there's no possible comparison between Arrow and Christopher Nolan's Batman, and even between Stephen Amell and Christian Bale...

They play in a completely different league....
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I agree that Diggle has to go along for the ride in order for the show to even continue, although given the brief clip from the preview for next week, his very first reaction isn't a big bear hug thank-you to Oliver (more like a still-hazy attempt at a KO--looked like Batman swinging at Bane in round one).



Moira seemed pretty easily convinced that Oliver "knows nothing" (ep 2), although the preview for next week shows she's aware of "the list" and that the Hood has his own copy. Darn, just when you thought she had an epiphany about her parenting.



Thea's comments to Moira about the previous five years make it seem like she might know more than Oliver does about dear old mum.



Quentin got his arm twisted by Oliver during their first "chat," but didn't even put forth much effort into catching him right after, whereas in Batman Begins all Bruce Wayne did to Jim Gordon was to hold a stapler to the back of Gordon's head, and Bruce wound up cracking a rib in the chase that ensued (Ok, granted, Gordon thought it was a gun, as was intended).



I agree with your comments about the bodyguards, which would make Quentin's acceptance of "The Hood" more difficult if Oliver was giving lethal shots, although that's always been a bit of a sticking point (pardon the pun) for DC and Marvel (Hawkeye) alike in making their archers live-action. The animated ones have of course used the more kid-friendly trick arrows, but what works in animation doesn't always transfer well to live action. I also agree that it seems like the writers are having trouble deciding themselves (probably trying to wait for public reaction), as Oliver's dismissive comments clarify nothing when you don't know the body count (and seem contradictory when the bosses are given a chance, but the help is apparently dispatched without a thought).



I'm too much of a DC fan to not wait and see on this one though. I just hope (for the sake of dialogue if nothing else) that they make up their minds very soon.





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To be perfectly honnest, I'm not too concerned about the morality aspect of the show. It's not a show that's meant to be realistic ; it's from a sci-fi comic book.

In shows that are meant to be realistic, killing, whether it's bad or good guys, bothers me. If the morality aspect is adressed here, I will be happy, if it's not, I won't much care.

As for this episode, I liked it very much ! One storyline that develops with a cliffanger (sort of) at the end, the flashbacks that give us some information (but not too much , it would be sad to spoil that so early!).

I also like the many characters of the show : Diggle, his background and of course his interaction with Oliver (can't wait for next week), Thea the lovely and so human teenager, Walter and his ambiguity... I also like the many faces of Oliver Queen.

Good scenario, good action, somewhat good actors, this is the perfect show to relax and not think too much !

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I'll contend that just because something's operating in a sci-fi genre (or any other genre) that doesn't mean we can shrug off the morality issue. Even if the plot isn't meant to be realistic (while having elements of realism in it), that doesn't mean it can't address serious issues.

I, for one, am keeping an eye on the racial issues that were brought up in this episode since it's kind of shocking for any show on broadcast TV, let alone the CW, to acknowledge issues of white privilege and gentrification. They back off it fairly quickly, but that it was there is a promising sign.

So sitting back and not thinking too much is fine, but just know that if you keep reading me here, I'll still be thinking. :)
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Am not familiar with the comic at all... Soooo is the island some sort of training ground for a triad or something like that?

Really liking the show! Every time I see the stunts I look at my gym gear sitting quietly in a corner of my room LOL!
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No worries on not being familiar with the comic! The island's always been the place where Oliver picked up his skills, typically training himself. The show seems to be tweaking this origin story a bit, so we'll see how it plays out. :)
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Hey Noel! Really nice you take the time to read and commend on our comments LOL!
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Happy to. Have to earn my big freelancer bucks somehow.
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Wow, doesn't look like Digs is going to be an ally yet! He's pretty upset in the preview for Ep4!



Also, about Ollie's attacks on bodyguards. I really don't think they are lethal shots. Just like on the island, the other green archers knew how to make non-fatal shots (on Oliver himself). It wouldn't fit at all with Ollie's morals/ethics to kill all those people, although he has killed a couple (I guess they were trying to kill him!) Plus the Adam Hunt guy mentioned that Arrow put his guys in the hospital, not in the cemetery or the grave.



More broadly, it is sad how much corrupt people who are rich and powerful can get away with, and the law doesn't seem to get them often. A Green Arrow would feel satisfying in some ways, but in real life all the Green Arrows would be dead awfully fast!
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In TVLand where people expect the expected, it would be wise to default to the notion that simply because he's a comic book superhero, he would shy from killing.



In spite of those comforting default positions that many people hold, If the season continues to be done in the spirit it's intended, outdated notions like that will die soon enough.
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I like that Diggle find out Ollie's secret identity but I'm afraid that Diggle will be Ollie's sidekick and that something we don't want it to happen 'cause it's early for Ollie to have a sidekick and it would be better if Diggle helps Ollie with other stuff like covering for him or something like that.



Green Arrow killed Deadshot !! I wasn't happy about this. I don't want them to kill every Villain who gets in Green Arrow's way because in the end of the season there will no Villain to stop.

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Hmm who knows.. I mean he looks dead, but in some of those pictures of the comic version deadshot seems a bit...cyborg like.. they could always pull a smallville kind of thing and revive the guy who knows though I was bummed that the deadshot thing ended fast.. I was expecting him to run away like China White did.
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There's a big gang of villains slated for....episode 6, so I suspect some villains will survive. And don't forget that China White's still lurking around, too!
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I don't think the family aspect is weak, Greg Berlanti was in familiar ground while dealing with an angry teenager after four seasons of everwood and Willa Holland does a great job but there are simply way too many stories to deal with at once and sadly the show can focus enought on the family aspect.



As for the morality issue I don't think it's actually such a problem. Arrow kills peoples that are armed because they represent a physical threat to him. The "bad guy" is not armed so he doesn't kill him and since he wants to help people he has to target his money instead of his life. Clearly his behavior is moraly questionnable and I too believe it's gonna be one of the main themes of the show but I don't think he only kills people from "the working class".
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Quite good fun for a comic. Totally silly, of course. - That was a nice climb up the wall to retrieve the bullet (parcour style, as someone noted). - You said you liked it when Arrow did a little bit of research. Not that I understood how a 7.62 caliber (a common NATO round) would lead to the Russian mob. Also, Deadshot's wristgun didn't need reloading. Nifty trick, that.

I can also confirm that the first city night shot was indeed Frankfurt, Germany.

Intrigued by the Asian cave guy on the island. Did someone catch the language - was it Japanese?
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We've settled a complaint from last week. Ollie is NOT bulletproof.
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That's one of the memes from television that goes back as far as the TV Westerns. The hero can be shot, but it's usually in the arm or leg and is almost always a flesh wound.
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I will put forth my only complaint about this series so far...so, we have seen Oliver don the Arrow outfit a couple of times now and never the eye makeup? How does that work? Does he carry it around? I get it is so much more useful than a mask which might cut down your peripheral vision, but when does this happen?
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I pointed out last week that the mask seems to be only sporadically applied. I don't really find this to be a sticking point for me.
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Thank you for bringing that up. I wonder (and chuckle to myself) about it every time he has a close up in costume. Are we just supposed to believe that when he pulls down his hood the make up just mystically falls into place? And for that matter I feel it brings up a whole new problem I feel like if anyone wants to find out who the Arrow is just look up receipts for whoever has been raiding Claire's for all the green eye shadow.
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I believe your concern regarding GA's morals misses the target. In the "we're not so different, you've taken lives" scene, I would've written GA's response as: "I've taken lives, but I've never murdered anyone." The bad guys on the list aren't the ones shooting at GA. GA puts arrows in peole shooting at him. He'll kill in self-defense, but once he's cornered the unarmed bodyguard less badguy, he doesn't murder them.
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By that logic, he'll kill an armed person on the list? I kind of don't see that happening.
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If they're firing at him, trying to kill him, of course he would.
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Good episode and i like your reviews. I am not concerned about Oliver shooting down some security. Well, no i would be concerned about Oliver shooting at security but, imo that's not what he does. These guys are trying to kill him. Maybe they are called security by their bosses but i get the feeling that they are more payed killers then actual bodyguards. Wasn't it last episode that one guy ordered them to kill Arrow? That imo makes them enforcers not security. Even if they really wouldn't be aware of their respective bosses dealings.
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I like that this origin story starts after Smallville ends. It really shows how Clark grew up w such a loving family, while Oliver didn't. I know in the comics they are suppost to both be dead (& were in Smallville too) but her..like wow! He's been off the island MAYBE a month? These ppl don't show any sympathy for him.
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I don't know about the bodycount, but in the first episode, when he first threatens the "mark of the week" in the parking garage and takes out to of his bodyguards (one with an arrow to the centre-left side of the chest (heart-ish), the second off-screen but with two arrows, it's later stated that "he put two of my men in the hospital".

Meaning that they're apparently doing a little bit of "TV magic" and making his arrows as deadly as the plot requires - meaning not all the poor "muscle" is getting killed off. ;)
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I'd say they did the tattoo thing for Deadshot so they could show he was the one who shot Diggle's brother whose name I guess was Andrew and whose widow we met at the cafe. Should make it easier for him to sympathise with Oliver's vigilante ways now that he knows about them.
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I like this show but it was a little bit toooooo over the top with the guy tattooing himself. Oliver is starting to become to robotic but I'm going to keep watching.
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Over the top? I wouldn't be surprised if real life hitman people did that.. well then again you'd have to be pretty insane to tattoo the names of your victims on your body...and deadshot was exactly that way and he seemed arrogant.
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YES! Diggle is in!! That was pretty much the highlight of the episode for me. I think that's the best relationship that Oliver has with anyone on the show, and certainly the best chemistry. They do a fantastic job of having that enigmatic, cryptic way about them and how they communicate with one another and their is a hint of mutual respect thrown in their too. Now we can bypass more of the "Diggle knows and Oliver knows that Diggle knows but neither of them will speak of it directly" bit. Now I fully expect for Diggle to try and run interference and balance out being both an asset and a hindrance to his vigilantism. They will continue to keep me intrigued.

I think outside of those two the other characters have yet to really grab my interest. His friend seems like the quirky friend but minus the quirky presence. Thea is...a witch. She's insufferable in that stereotypical way that they make most teens on television. I get why she's meant to be that way. She's Oliver's past...a reminder of how he was and how he used to be, and what he's trying to maintain as cover while fixing and correcting it in her. It doesn't make it any less irritating to watch however. And Laurel. I don't really see any chemistry with her and Oliver and I find her to be at least a hair less self righteous than her father, but she doesn't hold my interest much either. I'm assuming that it just may take longer for these characters to develop more, be tweaked, and fleshed out.

-The action and case aspect of things was pretty interesting. I loved how they at least brought out there just what he's doing and that it can be more morally ambiguous than he could ever imagine. Enlisting help was great as an acknowledgment that he won't be able to do all of this alone. I liked the standoff with him and Dead shot and thank God I loved that Dead Shot took the dude out before Oliver made his speech. The voiceover thing still grates the nerves a bit and I really did enjoy the flashbacks.
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I just said it up there, but I'm happy that they didn't take forever for Diggle to find out the inevitable. We'll just have to wait and find out what he gets to do with that knowledge. Could be pretty good, could be not.

And in case you missed it from last week, welcome aboard. We got a show!
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:) Hellz yeah!
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Yes, Diggle finding out was also the highlight for me.

That, Deadshot being pretty cool, and the awesome battles between him and Arrow, saved the episode for me. The rest was good, but nothing special.

Anyway, back to Diggle, I have said in previous posts that I think Diggle will end up like Kato in the Green Hornet. For those unfamiliar with Kato, he was the Green Hornet's butler/driver, but he was also his sidekick and whopped all sorts of ass. In addition he had a great car, and was a great getaway driver. These are all characteristics I expect Diggle to have, plus whatever else TPTB deem appropriate.

I very much look forward to seeing their relationship evolve.
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Yes!
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I really like that Diggle is in on the secret now! And the island flashbacks are keeping me intrigued.

I think a lot of the problem with Thea's character stems from the actress seeming like a nice, lovely person but the character keeps doing incredibly bratty and selfish things. There seems to be a total disconnect in her personality. She really just needs to be developed into a more consistent, sympathetic character. Similarly with Tommy, he's supposedly a smart ass playboy, but he kind of comes off as an annoying, kinda dorky, hanger-on. Just seems to be some weird casting that happened on this show.

And look! The Green Arrow got his own Takeda this episode!
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Is this a safe space to say I kind of like Deadshot better on Smallville?
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NO. GET OUT OF HERE, CORY.

What was he like on Smallville?
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More cartoony. I want to say he wore a maroon leather outfit as well.
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Also, he was more like a cowboy; the clothes he wore and the way he talked.

I like both versions of the character though.
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I like that the writers seem to be fans of the comics and are bringing in lesser known characters in new ways. I for one have never really heard of Felicity Smoak until this episode but will go and do some research on her. That is why shows like this work because they can introduced these characters to a larger audience then they would have in just comic form.



Theas character arc is the hardest to predict right now. She is an original character with no comic analogue that I can think off so it is hard to see where she is going, much like Chloe was on Smallville. However, she seems to share qualities with the Speedy's. She has a drug problem like Roy Harper in the comics. Perhaps Oliver will take her under his wing in order to save her from the path she is on, a path she is very much patterning on his from before he went to the island. I wonder if the show will go truly dark with her character and have her partying and drug use lead to something like HIV. Mia Dearden, the second Speedy was HIV positive after years of prostitution. That kind of thing would really change the tone of the relationship.
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still early to tell, but episodes are consistent and I like to watch it atm.



would like to see that mother gets whacked rom the show,though:D

nothing personal against her or actress who is playing her,just that Ollie's parents ain't in comic books I read ( though I didn't read every version of GA comic,but I think it has been consistent,that he had no parents,no?)
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Oliver had parents in one continuity (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Moira_Queen_%28New_Earth%29) but apart from there, I don't think his parents have ever really mattered.
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I am appreciating that they are acknowledging the moral problems (like Arrow appeared sort of distressed when Deadstroke said they were the same, like that will become a major discussion between him and Dig and perhaps between Oliver and his island guide). I am curious if there is going to be a force that moves against Arrow citing this at some point (like on a more silly scale, the newspaper editor who thought Spiderman was a menace). I think the writers sort of didn't deal with it because mostly in the first two episodes the other guys have been mobsters or clearly go to guys for the main bad guy and then specifically not showing whatever may have happened between Arrow and Holder's guards, like wouldn't the cops when talking mentioned the guards that he killed?



I have a feeling that as Oliver starts to get more personally involved with the city again, he will find this harder and harder, like on the island it was easy to just think of the names on paper as not being attached to real people.



I have a feeling Deadstroke isn't dead and I don't know if Arrow was sure either, but he got distracted by Dig. I imagine there are many who could measure the shaft that was coming out of the monocle thing and say that only the end of the arrow broke the lens and then the force of the arrow just knocked him unconscious.
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I am so surprised how much I love this show. Too bad that Supernatural cannot be this good.
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I continue to enjoy the show. It is just kind of fun. I like that Diggle knows now. And I like that I am not sure where they are going to go with it. Are they going to try to make him a sidekick, or just the driver that sometimes kicks some arse.



I think the overall story is going well, I like that Laurel know that Oliver knew before hand. It will make her wonder why and perhaps further her inevitable turn to Black Canary. So there is that. And I agree her and Oliver's friend I think are better matched. But we shall see what comes of that. But it is progressing well.



As for Speedy. I think there is going to be a show and tell from Oliver. Or the club is going to be built and in a drunken stumble she is going to find the lair and then train to become Speedy. I don't know if that is going to happen this season. But I agree her drunken party girl bit is tiresome and I would appreciate a more in depth look at why she currently dislikes her brother. And maybe something more than "Sis, time to go home" and then "party, WOOO". If she is going to be the Speedy of the comics then i think they need a better story than that.



As for the island. I am still all for the past and how he turned into the Green Arrow. Especially now that he is in the Bratva. And a Captain at that. It all seems convenient, and if gives the writers too easy of an out to just write something crazy and then say oh well he learned it on the island.



But overall I continue to lie the show and look forward to the further episodes.
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I'm really enjoying this show (questions of morality aside.) And now that Diggle knows, which is awesome, I think he could be a good influence on Oliver both personally and as Arrow. I can't wait to see more of Diggle's reaction next week! I also loved the introduction of Felicity's character since she has the potential to add some humor. I thought they could have done more with Deadshot's character, especially since now, unlike China White, he's dead and we won't see him in future. Personally, I'd prefer less time spent on Detective Lance and Laurel Lance because right now I'm bored when they're on the screen, though I do agree Laurel seems to have more chemistry with Merlyn and that might provide more entertainment. But I still wonder about Merlyn because Det. Lance implied he'd roofied someone in the pilot, and right now I mostly get a charming rogue vibe off of him rather than creepy sex offender. He seems to genuinely care for both Laurel and Oliver. The family dynamics need more fleshing out, but I find Mama Queen interesting because though she appears to love her family, she also seems to be mixed up in some dirty business dealings. How far will she go? LOVE the idea of a night club masking Arrow's secret lair lol. As for a name.... maybe Rogue's Gallery or something with 'rogue' in it since that defines the perception of Green Arrow at the moment, and it's how Oliver wants everyone to see him. Good episode - I'll be watching next week!
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I liked the ep. I hope Deadshot isn't dead, but I can't see how he survived an arrow to the brain. I assume that arrow went pretty deep and wasn't just stopped by the lens so he only loses an eye or something like that. Also, did anyone else get this feeling...

Oliver: "Felicity Smoak?"

Felicity: "Why yes, I am a comic book character and thank you for introducing me in a way so everyone will know."

Overall Im pleasantly surprised by this show.
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Question: In the pilot episode when he faces off vs. Hunt for the first time in the parking garage he merely injures the 2 security guards. So are we suppose to believe the first time he visits the people on his list list he injures then when they fail to follow through he becomes lethal? Just something to ponder about.

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It was cute that they put the names of the crew on Deadshot's body as his former victims. But... they also put Andy Diggle (Green Arrow Year One writer, John Diggle's namesake) on there.



So... did Deadshot kill John Diggle's brother, who was named Andy?
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Tattoos are pretty painful, aren't they? You'd think the guy would wait until he had some down time rather walking around trying to assassinate people while in pain.



Also, writing the names of your victims on your body doesn't seem to be the smartest move if you're ever arrested for something else.
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Diggles sister in law did say that Diggles job got his brother killed. Maybe both of the brothers were bodyguards and Andy was killed protecting a target. Either that or Andy saw something as a bodyguard that made him a target for Deadshot which would explain why his name is tattooed on Deadshots body while it would at least seem that collateral victims were not.



Nice catch on the name, I wonder if there were any other visible names that are easter eggs like writers or characters. If they really wanted to mess with our heads they could have thrown in Martha and Thomas Wayne, just for kicks and to get the forums buzzing.
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One of the problems with Burton's Batman was the fact that they retconned Joe Chill away.
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Better episode, but after watching it I think the writers should spend some time watching Person of Interest which manages to have complex character drama, dark brooding heroes, nice story arc while still maintaining a quality threat of the week story. It really could be a blueprint for this show.



With that in mind they should really streamline by getting rid of the father cop plot line, lawyer girl friend (why is this even part of the show), useless best friend (particularly the useless slept with the GF plot) and sister drama (works about as well as a trip to the dentist) . There is a lot to work with in the mother/son relationship, the bodyguard, recurring villains, etc and these other characters are at best empty filler.
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Although the cop dad is pretty unimportant right now, I'm hoping it'll turn into a Spiderman type situation where he comes to respect the vigilante a little bit, then unmasks him and finds out it's the guy who's dating his daughter, and then he has to decide whether to turn him in or help him out. Considering it's a comic book show that's probably the way this is going.

And with Thea, she'll probably get the motivation to become Arrow's sidekick after their parents are tragically killed in season 3. That's just the way these things work!
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Some of it is probably just there to pay homage to the source, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of it is there to set up future story arcs. Dinah Lance is Black Canary and GA's main love interest and Speedy is GA's "sidekick" in the cannon. Im pretty sure those two things will be plot points. Stories like this also needs that cop who doesn't trust the hero at the start but eventually becomes their partner (POI has this too) so the cop storyline makes sense.



Also, you know what happens when writers watch established shows and try to "learn" from them. You get Mad Love, which by all accounts wasn't bad, but was so much like HIMYM people just didn't give it a chance. Plus, Arrow and POI are actually quite different. POI is a vigilanti show while Arrow is a superhero show. Sure they go around fighting crime and beating people up, but it's like how SP2 and Supernatural are technically both about two people going out there looking for the paranormal and stopping bad things from happening, but they are completely different.
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So, essentially, you want to remove the more CW-esque aspects of the show and make it a CBS procedural...?

I understand that impulse, but I don't think that'll happen. The show just needs to get better at balancing these elements. They won't drop Laurel or Tommy due to their connections to characters from the comics; losing Quentin, at this point, probably wouldn't be a huge loss, but there's still room to improve the character's place in the narrative (though I'm not sure what that would be right now).

I hear you, and others, about Thea, but I really think there's some value in Oliver facing a version of his past self, as it were, and trying to remedy that issue. It's not just about saving the city, as Moira's little speech about the baby tiger and Daddy Queen made clear, it's also about fixing this family as well. And Thea, for better for worse, is part of that equation. Does it need strengthening? Absolutely. But I'm not ready to dismiss it after 3 episodes.
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Quentin gets killed/injured which spurs Laurel to seek justice... Would be where I thought the writers would take that arc, but I read they are introducing The Huntress so Im not so sure now. Also, you could have the "one of them knows Arrow is Queen but has to keep it from the other" plot line. Or the "promise me as Im dying you will stay away from my daughter" thing. Lots of good stuff there =)

I actually don't mind the sister. I like the whole, this is what you were like 5 years ago thing they have going on with her and Oliver. Plus, it's always fun seeing Oliver giving some speech about family and responsibility and then have to go off and pretend to be a douche to keep his cover (though this can get old fast).
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As others have said, Diggle finding out about Oliver being Green Arrow is good for a few reasons. It prevents the "Will Diggle find out?" idea from being stretched too far, progresses their developing relationship, and gives someone to talk to about what's happening, potentially getting rid of the need for voice-overs. Also, as you mentioned, Oliver operates in a kind of gray area, which doesn't really get questioned in too much depth. But now that Diggle knows the truth, he can question Oliver's methods of taking down the people on the list, particularly when it comes to the people who work for them. This could be a good way to push Oliver's character progression in the future. Anyway, as far as this episode goes, I liked it. I thought that Deathstroke was a nice addition to the show. Before this episode, I only knew him from playing Batman: Arkham City, but even from that I found his character very interesting, and was looking forward to seeing him on here. I do hope that the other people are right, and he really isn't dead, because I think he can add a lot, especially given the parallels that can be drawn between him and Oliver. I do think that the character drama was somewhat weaker this episode than the first two though. I do like that they gave Oliver's mother more of a human side in the episode, and even though I didn't really love the scenes, I do appreciate they revealed Tommy's relationship with Laurel to Oliver (even though he already knew). In the first two episode, I wasn't really bothered by Thea's character like a lot of other people were, but she did really annoy me this episode. I hope that her character develops past this rebelling with alcohol and drugs stage soon. So, overall, I thought that the character stories weren't that great overall, but I did like the progression they made with the stories, and really liked the Deadshot story.
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Alright, so how long before Laurel discovers Ollie's secret and falls for him again? I figure the fact that her dad hates Ollie AND Arrow will practically make him irresistible to her.

I figure Merlyn will also discover the truth, but he'll be overcome with jealousy when Laurel chooses Ollie/Arrow. Merlyn will then disappear, only to return some time later as an assassin-for-hire, thinking the murderous archer persona is what won Laurel over.
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I remember in the pilot the bodyguards for the target mentioned that the vigilante put his men in the hospital but did not kill them so some of them at least survive. Oliver is a crack shot so he could easily take out security without killing them. Maybe it is only when he knows of their criminal ways that he takes them out like he did Drakon in the pilot.



Kind of sad that Deadshot got taken out so quickly and will not be back. I also would have liked a more faithful version of the costume for him. Both Smallville and Arrow ditched the costume almost entirely. At least the eyepiece was retained for this one but it just seemed huge and out of place without the mask.



Good to see a bit more of Diggles back story and now that he knows of Olivers identity, he will have to balance his duties as bodyguard with what is likely going to be his agreement with Olivers mission. Maybe he will be the one that spurs Oliver to try and help the city beyond just what is on the list.



I do hope that we see a little more of Dinah (yes I am calling her Dinah because that is her name) kicking butt. Maybe not this season or the next if it is a renewed, but I do hope this leads to her becoming Black Canary. Of course since the series is avoiding any mention of super powers it would have to be minus the Canary Cry. It would also be cool if we found out that Dinah's Mother was a vigilante in the past, the original Black Canary just like in the comics.
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The problem with the eyepiece that it served no purpose. You'd put the light-enhancement and telescopic vision in the rifle sight, not try to wear an eyepiece and look into the rifle sight.
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Doesn't matter how crack his shot is. In order to incapacitate a person, the shot has to be near lethal or employ some high tech solution a'la Batman (and the comic Green Arrow). Even if the arrows aren't killing them they are likely crippling them for life and no matter how good the shot is someone can always bleed out, keel over from shock, etc.
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You mean the arrows that have a big green boxing glove on them?
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See, last week everyone was all, "He's killing people!" and now this week, when I talk about it, everyone's all, "He just wounding them." Can I have a bit of consistency?! ;)

I'm not attached to Deadshot, though I think the biggest fault is just that he was really dull. But there's a degree of appeasement in the wrist-mounted gun, so I'll take what I can get.

They could always do an electronic Canary Cry, which was used in the comics during Birds of Prey for a bit (I think it was Birds of Prey; it was post-Grell, that I know for sure.)
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He's both killing and merely wounding them! Some have been obviously killed, like all the ones shot in important places like the heart.

We should have a moment of silence for the members of the waitstaff who were killed this episode, even if that was Deadshot's doing.
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We *are* being consistent--by disagreeing with you!! ;P

I too was a bit sad to see Deadshot being taken out so quickly, but I thought he was a Batman villain anyway, so I guess it makes sense that he'd be a minor player on Arrow. I figure guys like Merlyn, Vertigo, and Deathstroke will be the ones with story arcs.
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Which raises the question, is Tommy Merlyn going to become ace archer comic-book villain Merlyn? Tommy doesn't seem like the type to suddenly turn into a mercenary assassin who is as good with a bow as Oliver.
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Well, he seems to be in love with Laurel, and seemed to think he had a shot with her once Ollie gave him his blessing. If Laurel discovers Ollie is Arrow and falls for him again, Tommy could go crazy with jealousy, and assume that the rogue archer persona is what appealed to Laurel. He leaves town for a bit, and returns as an assassin-for-hire. *shrugs* I mean, there has to be a reason why they specifically used Merlyn, right? I think we'll see him fall into villainy like we did with Lex in Smallville.
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Good episode. Am glad Diggle knows Olivers secret now instead of the whole will he or won't he find out through the entirety of the season. Please, please producers keep with this pace up. Three good episodes in the book don't muck it up.
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They have GOT to either get rid of Thea or "nice" her up. Way too much of the spoiled

brat, even if it's just seconds rather than minutes, can spoil this show...
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An appropriate name for Oliver's night club, The Killing Ground.
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I still like 'Queens'. They were too quick to dismiss that.
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Oh, this is an excellent idea for a game. What else could he call it?
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Hard Knocks
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Well once upon a time in the comics Dinah ran a shop called Sherwood Florist, no prizes for guessing what they sold but hopefully the club has a much better name.



As the new club is inside an old steel factory, I'm leaning towards The Ironworks as a possible name, keeping up the trend for inside references to DC comics.
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I imagine it'll be some sort of nod at a character, sort of how Laurel works at CNRI. Maybe The Arsenal? Or Artemis? Arrowhead? The Shaf-- no, probably not that one... I don't know, The Arsenal sounds kind of edgy, no?
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Why is he killing people! That's not what Green Arrow does! I get that they're trying to make the show 'dark', but Batman was dark and he didn't openly kill people! Arrrggggghhhhh...
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It depends on the story arc and the run in the comics. In the late 1980's there was the Longbow Hunters in which Oliver became far more violent and used deadly force often. Like the show, he did not often wear a mask and had little contact with the rest of the DC universe. Also like in the show, he did not go by any alias, Green Arrow or otherwise.So it seems that the show is taking its tone from that run of the comics.



Batman and Arrow may both be dark but the difference in depiction regarding killing fits with the characters. Bruce Wayne saw his parents killed by crime in his city so he made a vow never to kill so as to never become the same kind of man who would do that. It is villains like the Joker challenging this resolve that makes the tone dark. Oliver made no vow to avoid killing on that island. To him, criminals are a plague on his city and he is going to cut that virus out.

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good episode

did any1 notice in the last episode Oliver was shot on the island in the shoulder, but in this episode it looked more like a lung, which would be deadly on a deserted island, lung colapses and... bye bye
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Consistencies of set details have been terrible in this show.
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Considering the fact that the chief police guy called olive a murderer from the episode before that should point out that he's indeed killing some of those guards. And as for not serving that same fate to the crime bosses, well it's quite possible that he feels having to bring them down publicly for everyone to see will do a greater impact than outright killing them. But Whatever the cause, i could care less about because i'm really enjoying how driving dark the show is and i seriously don't want to see another smallville.



And i should add, ain't there no way deadshot is dead and won't back. That would be the first stupidest thing in the show if they ever did.
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what was wrong with Smallville? that Clark wasn't a killer? that he was an alien and wanted to change world for better, then just act like human and kill anyone he can?
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Really enjoyed this episode, though the fight scene was a bit short but who am I to complain haha?



On the bodyguard issue, the last episode, they were mentioned to be in hospital rather than being dead seeing as they are not the main target in that list Oliver has. Also, I don't think that is the last of Deadshot, probably just the last time he will have that eye lol.



On another note, Felicity Smoak(e) in the comics (pre-New 52) is the stepmother of Ronnie Raymond better knonw as Firestorm, just for anyone who wasn't sure about her comic background, and in the comics, was also into computer software, running a firm as the manager.



Diggle knowing the identity at this stage is indeed better than dragging it out, but would that make him 'Speedy' of this show (even though Thea is nicknamed and has attributes to the Speedy mantle)?
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Aah. Firestorm's supporting cast is well outside my knowledge base (I'm not even very familiar with Firestorm on the whole).
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Sooo glad that Diggle is in on it, now we can get rid of the voice overs of exposition (think when he was explaining about the poison). Now he can just say it to Diggle.
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It'll be interesting to see how Diggle reacts. He's obviously not going to out Ollie because... well, then so much for the show... but we can't assume he'll share Ollie's sense of justice. We know he's willing to kill in order to protect, but he might have an issue with the murderous vigilante angle. I'm sure he's going to stick around since they just introduced his sister-in-law, and it would be kind of wasteful/random to introduce that development without it leading somewhere, but I also don't see Digs as a sidekick, you know?

Also? Man, Diggle sure made it over there quickly, didn't he? I mean, last we saw, he was follow Ollie up the stairs, and he didn't zipline through the window, which means he got up to the floor OIlie jumped out of, went back down, crossed the street, and went up to where Arrow and Deadshot were having it out just in time to take a bullet to the chest. Pretty impressive, Diggle.

So how long before Thea gets sent off to rehab or an all-girls boarding school? She's cute and all, but I'm starting to grow a little tired of her attitude.
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I agree that Dig won't be a sidekick, but I imagine he'll start running interference for Oliver's extracurriculars. And as Gully_Foyle pointed out below, it'll give Oliver someone to talk to instead of voiceover stuffs.

Diggle did move quickly. And they got back to the Arrow Cave equally quickly, and without problems. "Oh, that's just a guy in a green hood helping his drunk buddy...?"
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Wow, good point. I didn't think about how quickly Ollie got Dig back to the Arrow Cave (is that what we're calling it?), considering the shootout that had taken place with police covering the entire block. Ollie's a freaking ninja.

I'm still not sure about Dig's role... I mean, I can see him running interference, sure, but he's also supposed to keep Ollie safe... there might be a little conflict of interest there if he just lets him run around getting shot at, you know?
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I'm calling it the Arrow Cave purely because back in the 40s GA actually had an Arrow Cave. I have no other name for it. The Arrow Basement?
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