Arrow Season 4 Premiere Review: The City on the Edge of Darhkness

Arrow S04E01: "Green Arrow"

I feel like I've been here before. Arrow comes out of the gate with a strong premiere, and I'm all, "Hey. Yeah. This is exciting! This has promise! Let's see where this goes!" And then I'm dreading my Wednesday nights. Or the episode (or season arc) makes it appear as if Arrow is actually going to dig into the concept of a city's (or neighborhood's) collapse only to get right to the edge of that idea and say, "Ooh! Look at that shiny thing over there." And then I'm writing 250 to 400 words a week about how Arrow, despite being in part about saving a city, has failed to define its city in any meaningful way beyond it needing saving. 

I don't want to do that. Again. And yet here we are. Again. Apart from one thing that made me want to pull my hair out (made all the worse by producers' comments) and one thing that basically only works at all because of the performances, I found myself not just intrigued but somewhat excited about Arrow thanks to "Green Arrow."

So, please, go ahead and mark your calendars: I expect to feel like Damien Darhk has sucked the life force out of me three episodes into the back half of the season, if not by the mid-season break.

In fact, the best analogy I can give you is basically how Diggle feels about Oliver right now is how I feel about Arrow. There used to be appreciation and trust, but all that was betrayed and now there's resentment and harsh judgements about the core of its existence being sort of rotten. Diggle's not wrong about Oliver—in no small part because Oliver was aware of it last season and he discussed it with Felicity this week—and Diggle's entirely justified in his feeling about the man who put his wife and child in extreme risk and refused to trust his allies. I feel I'm entirely justified in my pessimism because Season 3 became such a mess of poor plotting, on both character and story levels.

So, like Diggle by the end of the episode, a good performance on a train and a sign of a different Oliver isn't enough for me to break out the forgiveness balloons and the forgiveness cake. I'm not, in Diggle's words, "quite there yet." Whether or not Diggle and Oliver's strained relationship at this point is a tacit acknowledgement on the show's part of the overall response to last season within critical and fan communities I can't say, but it certainly feels like one to me as both a critic and a fan while still being a consistent and believable story thread carrying over from the events of last season.

In terms of what I was responding positively toward, obviously it's the idea of the newly named Star City trying to rebuild itself. They can't get a mayor, people are leaving the city in droves using the high-speed rail that takes them to the much sunnier Central City (though why you'd want to go to a city that had a big black hole open up above it six months ago I'm not entirely sure...), businesses are boarded up and abandoned, and the police are barely keeping their eyes above water. I asked in one review a while back why anyone would want to stay in the city, and the answer is that apparently they don't any longer.

So, yes, of course, I love this concept. It is, as I said at the top, something Arrow has consistently danced around, this struggle to have a vision for Star(ling) City. Even in Season 1, when Diggle challenged the notion of building Verdant in the Glades, there was an impulse to explore the best ways to save the city, and that impulse is generally ignored in favor of the destruction of the city, or at least the poor section of it.

I don't expect Arrow to suddenly go all David Simon on us and frame the collapse of Star City within the tradition of other struggling cities. I'm not that insane. But when an entire scene at the start of the season is devoted to a discussion of rehabilitating the city or putting it out of its misery like a tortured, writhing puppy, I expect it be a big part of what the core of this season is going to be about. Oliver hijacked TV signals to announce that he's going to be a symbol of hope to the city (Oliver's still a dick after all this time; dude didn't let Diggle, Laurel, and Thea appear in the broadcast! Not cool, man) and I want to see how this message plays out and what it means for Damien Darhk's plans.

Speaking of Darhk... just, yes. More, please. Neal McDonough is just one of those insanely reliable character actors, and he's very good at playing these sorts of well-dressed, well-spoken evil assholes. His casting did create a glimmer of hope, and I'm glad to find that both his performance and the writing for Darhk delivered. He's just a confident, clearly horrible human being, and McDonough plays to the cheap seats, noshing on the scenery. It's as if Arrow's writers looked at the fun The Flash was having with the likes of Wentworth Miller and went, "Oh. Hey. There's a good idea. Let's just have someone who is unhinged and does not give a fuck." Darhk is already a step up from their staid Ra's and given that Darhk's likely not too interested in explaining himself—or at least not caring if you understand his motivations—he'll be a different sort of vileness than John Barrowman's Malcolm.

Darhk's presence also introduced the whole mysticism angle to the show, or at least is going to ramp it up in some big ways since the tail end of Season 3 set the stage with the Lazarus Pit. Darhk's abilities at least are a new facet this concept, so they felt fresh even with the Pit's powers previously established. Obviously this aspect of things is important for not only keeping Arrow fresh and giving Oliver yet another bit of nonsense to be vaguely knowledgeable about, it's important in setting up the Legends of Tomorrow spin-off.

Those were the big good things in "Green Arrow" for me. Smaller things, like Thea finally showing some signs of Lazarus Pit craziness—and just Thea in general—or Diggle keeping the whole H.I.V.E. thing to himself—and just Diggle in general—will likely get more space in upcoming episode, so I'll save some digital ink for when they're more prominent. Instead, let's turn to the previously mentioned items that made me make faces that, had my mother seen them, she'd tell me that my face would freeze like that.

The first bit wasn't really all that bad, but since it's built on silliness from Season 3, it's sort of a mixed bag for me. I'm taking about Felicity and Oliver's relationship. On the one hand, I sort of love them in couple mode. "You have failed this omelette" is a funny line, and the very easy chemistry that Emily Bett Rickards and Stephen Amell have always had translated much better as a happy couple than it ever did as jilted would-be lovers. Amell, in particular, has again really dialed in to a new side of Oliver. Whatever I may say about the flashbacks, Amell's always made sure that the many different versions of Oliver have felt very distinct from one another, and Season 4 Oliver had a lighter tone of voice, talked with his hands, and, hell, he even sold the quip on the train. 

On the other hand, I've never felt like the writing on the show has earned this relationship to this point. Part of this is just that I've never seen what Felicity saw in pre-Ivy Town suburbia Oliver other than a really rockin' bod and his deeply rooted sense of purpose. But he's also an angry jerk who put her life in serious danger to trick the leader of an assassin cult. So. You know. Again, the series is coasting on the chemistry of its couple, and that's... well, it's not fine, but it at least makes it easy enough to watch. Am I looking forward to the whole "When is he going to ask her to marry him?" thing? Nope. And while I think it's reflective of the fissure that being back in Star City may cause in their relationship, I'm not also not entirely sure I want to watch them break apart sometime in the back half of the season. 

As for the hair-pulling out thing, well, if you didn't guess it's the whole "WHO DIED?!" thread they dangled, then you might be new around here. On one level, I just think it's narratively frustrating to tease this because now lots of folks are going to be looking for bits of foreshadowing trying to figure out who it could be, and of course the writers are going to lay bread crumbs all over the place. Which, of course, they have to do, since the producers are already saying they don't know whose headstone that is yet (obviously, don't click that link if you're looking to avoid spoilers and other season teases). I mean, they could be lying, but it's not a real confidence booster that this will go well.

On a second level, I just don't like knowing someone is going to die. Now I'm going to start detaching myself from basically everyone who isn't Oliver, and that's a really unpleasant experience. Instead of theorizing about who it is, I'm just going to spend the rest of the season steadily scaling back on caring about other characters. There's still a good chance that even with a season's worth of warning I won't be emotionally prepared, but I feel like the blow has already been lessened with this knowledge, and that's frustrating.

So, yes, stuff to be excited about, stuff to be frustrated about. Pretty typical Arrow. Let's see which stuff ends up winning out in the end this season, shall we?



FROM THE QUIVER



– The Parks and Recreations pun is all Andy, so go yell at him for that. However, the (double?) Star Trek riff is all me.

– So .. not sure my theory of Darhk being Felicity's dad is going to prove to be correct now. But who knows. Still plenty of time!

– Oliver had some of his tattoos removed, and I feel like this is a sure sign we'll see more shirtless Amell since the make-up requirements will be lessened.

– If the flashbacks want to go back to Lian Yu, fine. Anything's better than them trying to convince me they're in Hong Kong.

– Diggle's helmet. Awful even on screen. Clearly inspired by the character the Guardian from the comics, but nowhere near as good. Meanwhile, I really like the Green Arrow costume. 

– That entire bit at the train station was sort of awful. Thea's "serious hero" voice isn't great (no voice scrambler for her?), and while Quentin's delayed presence telling people to be calm made sense by the end, I'm not sure I needed two instances of him trying to calm a panicking crowd with a megaphone. The entire thing just felt like poorly planned padding, or it was a much longer scene that got cut into ribbons. Either or.

What did you think of the Season 4 premiere?


Comments (295)
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Nov 24, 2015
Oliver Queen: high-pitched voice = happy suburban life voice. I just thought it funny how higher pitch his voice was when happy.
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Nov 08, 2015
Felicity. Of COURSE it will be Felicity. Green Arrow's love interest in the comics is Black Canary, but Felicity was put in because A.) the Laurel we currently have was dull when she was the #1 love interest, whereas Felicity was a great character, and B.) the fans DEMANDED Felicity be Ollie's official love interest and got pissed when Ollie's first declaration to her was a fakeout, then got pissed AGAIN when the writers decided to actually make Felicity the love interest and turned her into a whiny shrew, JUST as Laurel FINALLY becomes an interesting character as the Black Canary.

Also, superheros and wedding rings are usually a flag that the love interest will die/get sen to another dimension. Marriage makes characters boring, which is why the main character of NCIS, for examplem are pretty much monks and nuns. (Yes, I know Diggle's married and has a daughter, but how long will Lilah last until she gets killed off?)
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Oct 19, 2015
My money on Felicity.
But we know that dead doesn't necessarily means the end of it in the kind of shows. A bath in the Lazarus pit, but after what it did to Speedy I doubt it and Oliver is not Laureen he would have done it before the burial not when the body is cold and ready to be in the Walking dead :D. So maybe Barry go go back in time for some reason and reset once again the timeline.
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Oct 18, 2015
My initial thought about the headstone was that it's Felicity's. Based solely on Barry Allen showing up there. But they can't get rid of her, the show would not be worth watching anymore 😪
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Oct 18, 2015
Did anyone catch the quick glimpse of the guy in a pilot jacket at the bar with bad wig Olivier. The name on the pilot jacket is Jordan as in Hal Jordan aka Green Lantern.
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Oct 15, 2015
I can't believe how that final scene just killed the entire episode for me.....dam...just as I was about to have hope for the show again...they killed it in just 10 seconds.....well done show...well done! xDD
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Oct 14, 2015
Only just watched the episode. I think that tombstone moment at the end there was a moronic thing to do, naturally... As a whole... I kinda enjoyed it. Though that was really not even up for debate. The previous season was such a disappointment that pretty much anything would have been better than what I was expecting. So... Yeah. I'll keep watching. Not expecting anything fantastic though.
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Oct 12, 2015
Overall I give this premiere a "Meh".

Headstone/Funeral guesses:
some rando "innocent" Ollie fells guilty about
Capt. Lance
Malcolm Merlin
Felicity's mom

....and like 85 names later on the list is anyone who appears in the opening credits as a regular cast member
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Oct 12, 2015
Eh, I guess it's only fair to start with that final scene. Such a horrible, horrible idea. I still can't believe how anyone thought it would be a good dramatic move. They absolutely managed to take me by surprise with just how awful of a turn it was, and now whatever death might eventually come (plus the goodbyes, the grief, the consequences) is going to be massively cheapened as a result. On top of that we've entered this insufferable period of having the knowledge of the unavoidable future far before it occurs (midseason finale, penultimate episode, one of the final three or four?), forced to wait for the inevitable. It's actually harder to give a damn about characters on the show this way, and it's only going to get worse with each inconsequential episode.
This reeks of desperation and the desire to garner some free publicity, because it's not like anyone is going to praise the show for its quality instead.

There was a lot of silliness everywhere, in large ways spilling over from season 3. The Arrow is dead, long live Green Arrow! And people in the city are all going to be dumb enough to take it at face value after Quentin spilled. the beans on Oliver Queen. With the latter all but showing his well lit face to the public during his speech.
Diggle's helmet looked stupid indeed, Laurel and Thea must've a huge invisible windshield in front of their motorcycle, for these pretend bullets surely failed to hit anything, Quentin was once again insufferable and should just be killed off. Working with the Big Bad, willingly or not, doesn't exactly help his case.

Neil McDonough seemed alright in the role, even if it reminded me of the character he played on Justified a tad too much. The same fondness for monologues.

I quite liked Felicity and Oliver together, and it made sense that she would be helping the rest behind his back. Her motivations were believable too, along with getting bored by the typical suburban life. But I fear there is some fake drama prepared down the line, for these writers seem to think that the only way to write a good reliatonship is to cause inevitable cracks in it (it's a wonder Diggle is still holding onto his wife).
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Oct 11, 2015
{Who Died} Who is going to die can easily be narrowed down via some details. 1) Assuming the person who is going to die is part of the Green Arrow's team, then 2) it probably won't be any comic book superhero's like Speedy, the Red Arrow, or Canary. Thus leaving either Diggle, or Felicity.

If the person who is going to die is not on the team, then I would say it might end up being the Cop who is secretly working with Darkh, getting killed because he decided to work with the Arrow rather than him.
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Oct 11, 2015
Barry needs to go back in time and prevent whatever it was that happened at the end there...
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Oct 10, 2015
Not, happy about that headstone scene. I personally like to be completely taken off guard by character deaths, more emotional punch that way. So I wish they just hadn't even done that. You wanna kill someone off? Go right ahead, it's your show I can't stop you, but please, please don't try to make me guess who it is. I'm not playing that game.
Otherwise, a strong opener. Darhk is gonna make for an interesting villain (unlike someone we know *cough* Ra's *cough*). I love Oliver and Felicity together, please let that be for awhile. Diggle annoys me, he has always annoyed me. Thea is much less annoying than usual. Apparently, being a lil superhero suits her. Laurel is also much less annoying. Her father on the other hand, needs to drop the 'tude and focus on teamwork.
Is it just me or did the Ghosts kill like 5 cops in the police station scene? Five officers down in like 5 seconds and no one mentions it. I guess Star City PD is hiring? Any takers?
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Oct 10, 2015
AM i MISSING SOMETHINGGGGGGG??


WTF WAS THAT ENDINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!

WHO DIEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!


ZOOM KILLED WHOOOOO???


They went to the future?? AAAAAAAAAHHRGGGGGGGGGH

i HATE THIS, now i have to endure aalmost 10 episodes until it gets to that scene with oliver and barry. WHO THE F**** DIED..

EXPLAIN!!!!!
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Oct 12, 2015
Welp, its a CW show. So the dead person clearly isn't anyone important because, CW drama.
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Oct 10, 2015
I hope the grave isnt thea, as her arc is good now and her acting has improved a ton since season one or mabey its the writing but what ever it is it is working with her!!!
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Oct 10, 2015
Say, i know what would be fun. Let's blow up a train load of people. That sounds like a lot of fun. We're going to save two lives at the empty train station by killing hundreds on the train. Who cares about defusing bombs or whatever. That's just too much work, and really we just wouldn't have the time. And you know what, all those guys at Star City will finally start recognizing us as the super smart people we really are. We'll be geniuses. They'll probably even give us some real tasty hero breakfast Honey Smacks afterward.

But we're first going to have to catch that train. It's a high speed rail thingy, so we can definitely catch it in our beat up truck going 40 mph. We can't go faster, cause I might blow off the truck's roof. It will be a breeze, so don't worry about that.

You know what would also be fun. Let's put my mug on the tv so everyone can recognize me. I'll just stare right at the camera so no one can make a mistake about my secret identity. They'll have a clear shot of my fuzz face and everything. Then we can all laugh when everyone in town won't be able to say it's me even though they all caught a clear shot of my face.

So let's go team. Yeah!

--Memo from the desk of the greenish Green Arrow.

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Oct 10, 2015
Plus the tv producers brought back M. Bison from the movie Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li, the greatest movie ever made.

The Arrow is well on its way to becoming one of the funniest comedies on tv.
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Oct 10, 2015
LOL, I noticed that too, GOOD ONE compfx!
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Oct 10, 2015
"Felicity Smoak, you have failed this omelette." hah
"This is so cool! This is so awesome!!" go Thea!
I'm still not digging Diggle's helmet!
I swear I heard Felicity say samosas during that lunch scene
I'm liking Damien Darkh! so I'm assuming he's getting his powers from that shrine
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Uma
Oct 10, 2015
I think I might be over this show, I really don't enjoy Amell as an actor, same for Rickards. I find myself missing Malcom already, I still really like Thea and Laurel but I'm looking forward to the Flash and Legends of Tomorrow much more.


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Oct 10, 2015
yeah, if your a fan of laurel its time to stop watching.
I have to watch in spite of that poop bomb she calls acting. She wasnt near as bad in season one when all she did was drink and bitch, but know that she has to do fighting scenes and have good dialog she is and anchor holding every one else back.
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Oct 10, 2015
I guess my thing about oliver and diggle is, Every one is like, well he should have trusted them and told them the plan???? But seriously, how many times have they known a plan and went rogue because they thought they knew better??? Knowing oliver had a plan now diggle should no his wife wasnt really in danger as arrow would have never hurt her. I love diggle but he has to get over this, If it was "the green diggle" than i would say oliver has to better but its not.
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Oct 09, 2015
Well that, was horrible!
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Oct 09, 2015
Nonono folks, it's no longer Arrow.. it's the Greeeeeeeeeeen Arrow, ait! Sometimes he shoots lanterns.... this show... moving on.
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Oct 09, 2015
Yeah, Arrow is really going to have to work to get me to trust the show again, too. I just find that instead of looking forward to the premiere, feeling hopeful that it will be better this year, I'm really struggling to care at all. I'm still watching the show, but we'll see how it goes.
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Oct 09, 2015
First, love that we FINALLY have the arrow back (ooops, the green arrow)!!!! But i really thought it would take a few innocents killed and some thousands of dollars of city destroyed with some of team diggle hurt and at least 2 -3 episodes before the arrow came back but it just took thea and laurel talking about how they had a bad day to get him back?????? Not saying i am un happy as we seen the green arrow sooner but that was kinda fast for some one who really believed he needed to be, and live a different life like ollie did at the end of seson 3.
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Oct 09, 2015
My first thought was, like a lot of people, that the grave must be Felicity's, but I really hope it's not. And like Noel, I wish this scene hadn't taken place at all. Thanks a lot for being the hundredth show to pull out the "a hero will die this season, but whooooo might it be" trick, Arrow.
I really enjoyed the lighter tone Felicity and Oliver as a couple provided to the episode, and the last thing Oliver needs is another dead girlfriend to mope about. Killing Felicity off might not sign the death warrant of the show, but it would take away a lot of its energy, and the few bits of fun it still has. I know my hopes are probably foolish, but I generally wish Arrow would lighten up a bit. Here's hoping that Oliver's new identity and Thea and Laurel's inclusion in the team will help.
Loved Darhk, and generally liked the episode. I am almost ready to believe this season is going to be good.
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Oct 10, 2015
I agree with you. I don't think it'll be Felicity only because Barry was late to the funeral and didn't seem too upset. He was sad for sure but not heartbroken. If it were Felicity I imagine he'd be more effected. His presence seemed more as a sympathetic friend than someone who is equally mourning. In any event, I wish they'd not foreshadowed that death.
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Oct 09, 2015
Hmm ... No mention of Hal Jordan's small appearance, and the connection between Quentin and Darkh ? Too bad ...
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Oct 09, 2015
There was something off of this premiere...i don't know..it had a very different feeling about it...don't like to see Ollie so nice and normal...
In his new suit, he looked nice, but even the fighting was softer, don't know the right word for it...
I liked the bad guys better then the gang..
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Oct 09, 2015
Hal Jordan's easter egg was nice.
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Oct 09, 2015
So someone is up to destroy the city? AGAIN????!!!!!!


Where did I see this before? Oh, yeah! IN ALL THE PREVIOUS SEASONS!!!


C'mon, Warner! Do better!


Gotham was so easy to let go, Arrow is going the same way.


My wish is that someone on Warner would give me a compeling reason not to give up on Arrow.


Now I'm looking to the sky and hoping Supergirl won't be another disappointment.
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Oct 09, 2015
Well, the arrow is there to save the city, so attacking said city is a sure fire way to pull the star back into the fold??? Im not sure i believe it either haha????
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Oct 14, 2015
You're right, I guess. But it's not as if they are trying to come up with better, more ingenious ways to do that tough.
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Oct 09, 2015
Jordan! Haven't you seen Green Lantern cameo???
Alsom I liked the episode but I am angry at what they did to Lance. He knew the leadership was going to be killed? That's terrible!
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Oct 09, 2015
I have to say that I felt much as you did Noel, I almost felt reluctant at the prospect of watching the premiere, but compelled as well. It was like a medicine that I needed to take and I'm glad that I did. Because I really do like "coupley Felicity and Oliver". And much like you I wondered at the forced romance of her falling for him. And I, for one, was completely and utterly surprised to learn that he returned her affections. it seemed forced, but seeing them together it definitely seemed and felt more organic.

The thing w/Diggle & Oliver bothers me. Any time there are things that drive the team apart, it's painful to watch. Because we love all of them. And we love them most of all when they're working together to defeat some foe: Agents of SHIELD, The Flash, & countless other shows with that formula. So Diggle's observation about Oliver's character was disturbing. Not necessarily wrong, just disturbing.

I really enjoyed Damien Darhk. He was pompous and full of himself and creepy and mysterious. All the things a villain should be. And that was a really nice suit. He may be just the sort of baddie to come along and bring our team back together again.
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Oct 09, 2015
I am with you, i think they could use another way to make the team look fractured other than the two most important people going at it like that.
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Oct 09, 2015
In my mind when I watched it there was no question that it was Felicity's grave. Just the way the scene cut from the wedding ring to the gravesite, and Barry was there (he is friends with Felicity). Also, I was so excited to see Neal McDonough playing Dahrk! He was great in Red2!

And no mention of the reveal at the end that Lance is working for Damien??? That totally threw me!
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Oct 09, 2015
I immidiately thought it was felicity's grave as well (and expected oliver to put the ring on the headstone or something like that) but barry is a very good friend of felicity and would look more devastated if it's her.

but I hate that we need to play this guessing game now.
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Oct 09, 2015
I think that the timeline will be changed by Barry so that it never happens. That's the only reason I can think of to show a mysterious death in advance - to then alter it. Psych!!
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Oct 09, 2015
{taking warm cashmere throw out of the dryer to drape around Noel's shoulders} bebbe, I know you've been hurt, but it's time to dust off your heart and get back out there.

I really enjoyed this episode, much more than the Flash premier (though I liked that too and don't feel a need to play comparesies between the two). Maybe I just think I'm over worrying about what might happen and can be in the mo and enjoy things while they're good, but yeah, that's where I am, with TV anyway. And I do feel optimistic about the coming season. McDonough is bringing Robert Quarles to the Damien Darkh party and I will show up to that with bells on every week. The weak spots didn't bug me that much and there was plenty to enjoy, including the kind of choreography that made me so impressed with Arrow in the beginning (that train scene was excellent). I didn't even pick on Laurel that much, and this was probably the least terrible flashback wig we've seen. The worst offender for me was Diggle's helmet and we knew that was happening well in advance so there was time to immure myself against it. It's going in the same file as having to drive a minivan because you have a small child, want to take common sense precautions, and don't care how it looks. So long as he stays alive for his family I'll allow it.

Can't say I love that they threw in the grave scene, but I'm not going to let it snarl my knickers just yet. This show reminds me of the Arrow I fell in love with, and I'm jumping in with both feet.
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Oct 09, 2015
Of course I say I'm all 'go-where-the-TV-wind-takes-me', while sharpening a dirty stick for Steven Moffat in my darker moments. Ah well. Maybe Arrow will remind me soon enough why we almost broke up there for a while, but no need to rush it. I'm sure @atomicphlea will get us over the rough patches :)
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Oct 09, 2015
They know a lot of people hated season 3 and it's understandable that they wanted to wheel out Neal McDonough quickly, but they're pacing themselves all wrong and they'll start doing lame filler episodes they could have avoided. The thing is that anyone who is still sticking with the show has metahuman patience and won't mind if they take some time to build up to Darhk. For starters, they didn't even need him to make an appearance yet, let alone hand Oliver his ass.
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Oct 09, 2015
One thing I'm glad they rushed was Oliver getting back to Lian Yu. He'd better sit his ass there until there's no more time to flash back to.
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Oct 09, 2015
I did enjoy this episode... First time that I liked Oliver and felicity as a couple.. Too cute... I laughed so hard when Oliver said... Felicity smoke you have failed this omelette... Hahaha... I liked the element of magic... Yeah overall it was a great season premiere 4 me.
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Oct 09, 2015
Wow people really HATE this show. Even the reviewer isn't interested lol. Even though it's not as good as it once was I am excited about this season, I am excited to see how Oliver changes. Can we please give him a chance to prove to us he has changed? I mean this guy was fully willing to stay in the suburbs and marry Felicity and make omelettes and have dinner with the neighbours because he never wanted to be Dark Olivier again. This was only the first episode , let's give him a chance to see who he becomes. Don't get me wrong I didn't like the Ra's stuff last season but this season gives me hope that it will be surprisingly better. Olivier doesn't make the best decisions and he has been selfish in the past and Dig does have reason to be upset but we all no why he did what he did and yes he should have trusted everyone and told them his plan but we all no he has issues and maybe finally he has learned that to 'save the city' he has to work with his team and he has to trust them and he has to stop being such a dick. It annoyed me to see everyone not give him a chance to really talk to them but hopefully it eventually smooths over because I'm not interested in watching a whole season of "everybody hates Olly." Also I follow Stephen Amell on Facebook and he seems to be very excited about finally being the Green Arrow and being able to change his bad habits. so I really hope that this season is great. Maybe great is too big a word. Good . I hope this season is at least good
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Oct 08, 2015
Great premiere! I think it is going to be a fantastic season for Arrow!!!!
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Oct 10, 2015
me to
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Oct 08, 2015
"Felicity Smoak,You have failed this omelette!"
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Oct 09, 2015
That was hilarious
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Oct 08, 2015
I dont have much hope for this season either. They all are so whiny. They sound whiny. And come on we all know who is gonna die....F*******
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Oct 08, 2015
I like happy Oliver! He was doing so well rigggghhttt until the end... Hoping the flash does some timey wimey stuff in 6 months to undo whatever trajedy awaits us.
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Oct 08, 2015
I'm hoping it's a mass grave containing everyone on the show. After visiting the grave, Oliver goes home, and being really bummed he slams some VO and a hallucinogen. Looking in the mirror while his brain cells are doing backflips he thinks he's Steve Martin and shoves an arrow through his head. Fade to green.
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Oct 10, 2015
LOL, VERY LOL;-)
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Oct 12, 2015
Thanks!
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Oct 09, 2015
Okay I totally don't agree but that would be hilarious to see.
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Oct 08, 2015
Why the heck hasn't Oliver killed Waller? In fact, why didn't he off her years ago?
Good to know the stunt people from Buffy and Angel are still in employ, what with all the OTT spinny bad guys flailing like dying fish. I'm all for girl power (or should that be woman power?!) but come on, simple punches from a 90lb woman aren't going to knock out a large man.
The voice enhancer thing even made Oliver sound a bit toy town when it flicked to his voice, let alone Thea etc. trying to sound like they smoke 80 cig's a day.
Diggles helmet...cough...Judge Dredd attempt.
Lance , poor Lance and that long over baked hate Oli at all costs.
I like Darhk but let's hope someone doesn't knock over his serial worship ornaments and lose his powers. And if Oliver knew of his powers, why did he bother fighting him and not just set forth the cheap CGI?
But seriously, when are they going to release their best secret weapon, namely, Felicity's buns-o-steel?
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Oct 09, 2015
-Why the heck hasn't Oliver killed Waller?

Three sound reasons why Oliver (or anyone else in the DCU) has never killed Waller:

1. Having the FBI, CIA, and the whole military trying to hunt down costumed vigilantes is not the end result that any hero wants.

2. They'd just replace her with someone else (likely worse).

3. He basically knows what to expect (or not expect) from her.

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Oct 09, 2015
I hear what you're saying but he could kill her in stealth mode. He's been turned into the B.A. Baracus of the programme!
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Oct 09, 2015
And she'd probably see it coming from a mile away.
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Oct 08, 2015
First of all, let me start by saying that I did not think last season was totally horrible. It had a few bumps here and there but it started and ended well. That being said, I thought that this episode was a good continuation of the story from last season and pretty busy at that, updating us on what had transpired over the last six months.
I do agree that showing the headstone was a bad piece of foreshadowing that came out of nowhere and was probably not well thought out.
However, unlike Noel, I will speculate as to whose it is, although I believe that it can only be one of two people, and either one would go against comic book continuity as I know it.
First, it almost certainly has to be one of the women, and only Felicity or Thea make sense. I think they use the presence of the Flash to make us think it might be Felicity, but it is possible that by the end this season Barry knows Thea pretty well also and may fall while fighting at his and Oliver's side. From a comic book continuity point it would make more sense to be Thea, as I believe Speedy died in the comics while Felicity lives to be come Oracle.
As for Felicity, she is the only sure link to keep creating crossovers between this show and the Flash, but it would be the gutsy writing move to kill her off.
If it is anybody else, then this was a horrible piece of writing, as no one else would command that kind of attention from those two characters.
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Oct 08, 2015

Happy now?
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Oct 08, 2015
You know the producers fucked up with that helmet when they don't even show Diggle putting it on or taking it off! Must take a while to get it just right so the poor guy can see what he's doing!
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Oct 08, 2015
I am surprisd to say this, but I agree with most of what the reviewer stated here. Minus Diggz. helmet in action, I thought it looked better live, than in still shots. I think why peole keep coming here to talk shit about GREN ARROW (Finally they got his name right.) is because they, like me enjoy the Flash, and know it ties into GREEEN ARROW, from time to time. For those Hating on the HATERS, just remember not everyone can be a good tv writer/producer, but it doesn't make them incapable of telling the difference between quality,and DOG SHIT, though at the end of the day it's all just personal tastes. Also @jonbon321 until Flash stops the continual crossovers, expect non fans of GREEN ARROW to stop by from time to time to Hate, or maybe even give props to the show (Stranger things have happened so you never know!) especially the week the underrated Constantine shows up. Now that's the first episode of GREEN ARROW (Mish-Mash of tones, and DC universes will be intriguing to say the least.) that I'm actually excited about to watch. HATE WATCH or not, that's at least something for the C DUBBS ratings counters isn't it?
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Oct 08, 2015
Well first thing ty for answering me without being a dick about it like most ppl would online lol,i guess ic were you coming from but still some ppl are just meh.
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Oct 08, 2015
LMAO one of the main reason i love this site is watching ppl go crazy in there reviews and keep watching.They hate this and that and say the writing is bad and yet every episode i come look and here they are and they will be here for next episode and the next season lol,If the show is so bad real question not to be mean why keep coming back just wondering,when a show gets bad that i watch i just stop and move on.Also alot of ppl seem to think writing a good tv show that keeps ppl coming back every week is easy, plz make a show and get it on air i would love to see your show lol.As for the episode i liked it and will be back next week see ya then.
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Oct 09, 2015
You know, it's kind of a silly argument to bring up. If people could only criticize the very thing they themselves do for a living, a large portion of journalism (especially of the cultural, political, or sport type) simply wouldn't exist. Writing a show isn't easy, but if a viewer can list glaring mistakes, plot holes, or solutions that simply don't work, I'd say that their points might have some foundation. Some will agree, some disagree, but that's hardly the same as expressing a blind hate towards something. Many people don't actually hate the show and don't want it to fail per se, they just hate how poor it's become and wish it had found a way to improve. It's fair to express such sentiment over a false praise.

Not everyone is going to just a drop a show they've invested time in the moment it takes a wrong turn. There is always hope it might stop sucking, or the need to have a complete picture. Or in the case of Arrow, the relevance of crossovers with Flash and (perhaps) Legends of Tomorrow.

Personally I'm just in the camp that bemoans the wasted potential. It seemed like Arrow could be something more back in season 1, able to work out its mistakes as it went. Season 2 also didn't signal an impending catastrophe, despite a greater dose of silliness. But after the disaster that was Season 3 and this somewhat lackluster premiere, the future seems really uncertain.
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Oct 08, 2015
I stop watching AoS and Gotham (along with millions of viewers ), I don't like wasting my time. The trolls here have way too much free time for sure.

Back on Arrow, the show will never be as good as it was during the first two seasons, when it was more grounded and less silly. Quentin Lance working with Damien was out of character, what a stupid way to ruin the character.

Oliver and Felicity's soap opera cliché got old already, for how long are they going to drag out the proposal? The whole season? Some people think these producers, that love pandering to Olicity shippers, are going to kill Felicity off? Really? I'm sorry, but I don't think they have the balls to do it, but if they do, then bravo. Lets see other potential candidates:

Thea: It would devastate Ollie, but Thea is just starting as a vigilante, it would feel like a waste of the character.

Diggle: Oliver would cry for him too, Dig is like a big brother to him, but Diggle has his own storyline with HIVE, finding who killed his brother, etc. They would have to close Diggle's arc before he's killed.

Laurel: Ollie loves her too, she's like family, but she's also the Black Canary, one of DC's main female superheroes.

Quentin Lance: He's already in danger for working with Darhk, but he's Arrow's Commissioner Gordon, it could go either way though.

Roy Harper: These producers are capable of bringing him back just to kill him off for shock value.

Lyla: It would destroy Diggle more than Oliver, but if it is true that the producers don't know yet who's going to die, she's another easy option for them.

This one would be a big cop out, but with Arrow's writing, completely possible:
Jessica Danforth (Moira's friend and the Queen family): The new character portrayed by Jeri Ryan will run for mayor, reason enough to get killed on Arrow. lol





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Oct 08, 2015
"If the show is so bad real question not to be mean why keep coming back"
Well Noel and the staff have an excuse, in that they are paid to watch shows they might not be 100% behind but that generate page hits for the site. But people who dislike everything about every episode but keep on coming back for more, well they're just idiots.
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Oct 08, 2015
Ha, gotta love those HATE WATCHERS!
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Oct 08, 2015
I feel the same way when a show leads in with a future character death--especially when the writers/producers don't even have a god damn plan set in stone for who it will be! And then, on that end, who's to say this dead character won't come back? They seem to enjoy doing that far too much--he's dead!--he's back!!--she's dead!--she's back!!--it makes it seem like writer's can't commit to their own story. In Fringe John Noble's character at least says 'death is only relative' and that pretty much gave that show free license to bring back who they wanted, and I respected that. Now we all have to sit there and pull back on who we care about that isn't Oliver and analyze every single detail, and I really don't want to do that. I have a love/hate relationship with character deaths. On one hand, they're necessary for plot direction/casting issues/scheduling conflicts/contractual arguments, and I get that. On the other, often times it becomes a wasted investment for X amount of years on a fully developed, perfectly good character. I've stopped watching shows for two reasons: 1) their initial premise was amazing, but after going on for too long, they've lost all concept of what they were and have become nothing more than filler muddling along until their inevitable axing, or 2) unnecessary character death. I have a bad feeling I'll stop watching Arrow because of number 2.

As it whole, it wasn't the best but it wasn't the worst. I think another reviewer said it well; the men are acting like whiny little girls and the women have really stepped it up. I really like Thea. She's grown on me so much and her costume is great. Diggle needs to get over his issues. Lance needs to get over his issues. And also, at this point, 4 years into the show, can we stop bitching that it's "not like the comics." They hear you. They don't care. Blame the casting director for hiring a terribly mis-cast Laurel and let it go already.
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Oct 08, 2015
Preach! Ha, in all seriousness though you do make some good points here, even though I don't fully agree with everything stated.
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Oct 08, 2015
Oliver is still a dick. Diggle's helmet is truly awful. I'm kinda hoping it's Felicity's grave, much as that would have pained me to say 2 seasons ago. At least they rectified the sucking hole of nothing R'as, by casting someone eminently capable of stealing every scene he's in.
Also, needs more Nyssa. Like, waaaay more Nyssa.
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Oct 08, 2015
I find it very hard to believe that people prefer The Flash to Arrow

The characters are better
the action is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY better (CGI or not)
the stories are better

Arrow is just an all round better show, yet the amount of fanboys The Flash had last season really grated on me

Arrow has had it's problems, last season was without a doubt the worst of it's three seasons so far but the hatred towards it is blown way out of proportion - it wasn't THAT bad - i think it was because it was coming off of the heels of season 2 (the show's best so far) so people expected the same amount of quality, not to mention The Flash was new so people were comparing them a lot
I do admit, it had it's problems, most notably why Ra's wanted Oliver in the first place, but there were some great episodes - it just wasn't as consistent as some people wished it was
As for The Flash, the main story arc had the most obvious twist i have seen yet people were STILL up inside it like it was amazing, when in reality, it was the equivalent of Smallville's first season, mostly lackluster but a few decent episodes here and there - overrated is an overstatement for The Flash's first season

Now onto the premiere, what a return that was, great villain, some good conflict between Oliver and Diggle that made sense, some great action scenes and a great twist involving Quentin and Damien Darhk - but if the grave is NOT Felicity's, i won't be happy, she is the obvious choice but i'd rather it be obvious and mean something (evident with Barry being there) than it being Diggle (whom is also theorised right now)
plus it would make Oliver WANT to kill which is what some people want from Arrow - maybe Oliver killing the weekly villains will get people to stop whining

Arrow is already 1 up on The Flash - the villain completely ruined The Flash - despite my love for Adam 'Edge' Copeland, Atom Thrasher sucked ass (the CGI was atrocious too) and the singularity scene was rushed, as expected - but people still managed to fanboy over it - amazing
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Oct 08, 2015
Sorry kevbuffylost, but I totally disagree. Batman is one thing, but making a serialized soap/drama out of a character like the Bats, but not as good is just not that appealing to the comic fans, if they EVER cared for that demographic. Flash is fun, epic, comic book goodness ( with some well written type soap/drama thrown in sure,but Gustan is a true performer through and through.) that you can't help but enjoy. Just sayin is all.
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Oct 08, 2015
Maybe the point here is i am not a comic-book fan, i think you have to have not grown up to be seriously butthurt over a bunch of cartoon characters on paper - i like the TV shows because they are more applicable and more adult

I dunno how long Green Arrow has been about but i definitely do know a tv show isn't the first instance of him being compared to a poor-man's Batman - but the people that want a live action Batman TV show will have to deal with the fact that it is not gonna happen anytime soon - Gotham is the closest thing the fanboys are gonna get to a Batman show and that show effing sucks so go to the next best thing - Arrow

I do think the comic-book fans can get very hypocritical when it comes to the soapy elements of a comic-book adaptation - the love stories are pre-existant through the source material - a TV show is an ENTIRELY different medium to a comic-book, so having the soapy elements be a big part of a show makes a lot more sense - otherwise it is just a knob in a costume beating someone up for 40 minutes a week and THAT DOES NOT WORK IN THE SLIGHTEST

I actually find this hilarious in regards to The Flash
"( with some well written type soap/drama thrown in sure,but Gustan is a true performer through and through.)"
i am sorry But Grant Gustin is NOT a good actor - he is embarrassing, Stephen Amell has more range than him and he is only passable as a DECENT actor
and you truly believe the writing in the soap/drama in The Flash is well written? it is no different to Arrow's writing in that area - i do NOT care about Caitlin and Ronnie and i would easily take Oliver/Felicity over Barry/Iris

And The Flash is NOT in the least epic, the stories are contrived messes, and the villains are like Smallville rejects - there was ONE aspect in The Flash that i LOVED and that was Tom Cavanaugh's Harrison Wells, the rest ranged from 'seen it all before on Smallville' to 'decent'

I would would rather see the Green Arrow kicking some ass than The Flash running about like a turd every week - sorry but i will never stop arguing that Arrow is a much better show - The Flash has potential but i couldn't care a less about any character than isn't named Cisco
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Oct 09, 2015
I am going to put this shortly as I can, since you have no attention span,& I have better things to do. I have D.L.H. as my pic for a number of reasons you would never understand, nor care about obviously, I give 0 fux about staying HIP&NEW. You are a hypocrite to think Buffy, and Cisco are cool, and to keep this childish argument going over your one true tv love Arrow, but not think YOUR a fanboy. NewsFLASH you are one! Plus the hypocrisy of your statement mocking me for wanting more REALISM in a tv program is ridiculous because if you remember Arrow season 1 was shooting for a more grounded (REALISTIC) approach of the story before getting desperate for ideas, and started to bring in the more FANTASTIC elements of the DCU. I believe Grant's first appearance as Barry was one of Arrow's highest rated episodes that season. So what is it, the MAJORITY of people are crazy, and have no taste? Or is it the other way around? So at this point I take your childish opinions/responses also with a grain of salt, since you are incapable of having a polite ADULT discussion expressing YOUR OPINIONS,w/o the insults & ( Your also in the minority in thinking Arrow is the BEEZ KNEEZ of tv shows. i.e. ratings drop EVERY single episode, and season.) ignore the solid FACTS I brought up POLITELY. So laterz kevbuffylostTROLL, because I am done feeding you!!!!;-)
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Oct 09, 2015
Actually Arrow isn't even my favourite comic-book show on TV so fail

Also Barry's first appearance in Arrow was highly rated for good reason, cause it was a great episode - but as a spin-off it is highly overrated and not nearly as good as people claim - I call it rejects of Smallville because it is much more similar to that show than Arrow - Arrow is darker, which i though comic-book fans wanted, now that The Flash is around, they are happy about the lightheartedness - then Daredevil comes around and they are glad that it is dark - the whole comic-book fanboys tend to contradict themselves and be hypocritical every chance they get

I mentioned Cisco because he is the best character in a show with too many bad characters to even count

Arrow was a great example of realism in it's first season - but the show has evolved (despite your protests that the writers are desperate for ideas, even though they are using the source material as blue-prints - so fail)

Not only that but i am one of those very few that do not care in the slightest how realistic a show is - i watch it for entertainment, for escapism, because i fall in love with the characters and the stories - my favourite sitcom of all time is Friends and suspension of disbelief has to used a lot through that show - one of the main characters gets pregnant around May and doesn't have the baby until May the following year - that is 12 months of 'how the hell is this happening' - if i don't care about that realistic inconsistency i am certainly not gonna care about any unrealistic thing that happens in a show about a guy in a green hood, who uses a bow and arrow, and a voice changer to hunt down bad guys am i?
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Oct 09, 2015
HA, HA, HAAAA your very funny.
First, I am not butthurt at all about Arrow, UNLESS they are being covertly racist/sexist, which in this case I think they are not. So lets get that out of the way rite now.

Secondly, If it wasn't for FANBOYS you supposedly look so down on, then you wouldn't have your precious ARROW/AMMEL. We like adult situations too I might add ( Dark Knight?), just have it come from a place of, I don't know, REALISM of what a real human being might do, or not do it with, in these spectacular kind of circumstances.

Third, for you to come here and show your irritation for those who dislike something you like ( calling people you don't know childish is not only RUDE, but unneeded. ) just really shows your immaturity. Ironic don't you agree?

Fourth, remember BUFFY? I sure do, and the epic spin-off? Wow, Angel like the Flash are IMHO better than the flagships! Now those shows had a lot of FANBOY/GIRLS who still not only hope for a reboot/reunion, but still fondly look back on in pop culture today. Are those people immature too? No probably not, because that would put you in their camp kevbuffylost wouldn't it?

Finally, fifth ( idk 5 is a good number to stop on, just like Arrow I predict will stop on when it comes to seasons. You know once the C DUBBZ gets that precious 100 episode count.) Arrow, and Smallville are NOT as good as Flash( currently anyway, because I don't know what tomorrow will bring in quality.) IMHO because they are not, truly attempting to be what they were originally written to be. A show of super heroes fighting those the regular humans can't. Not stretched out arc's, that destroy the initial stories that were being attempted to tell( Here's looking at you the Strain), plus forced love triangles, which Flash doesn't do as much of, or as badly i.e. unbelievable romantic subplots, and bad casting choices on Arrow. Laurel who? Ollie seems to have forgotten!

Gustan's everyman look, appeal( the guy can sing too!), and acting as a REAL human being with emotions, is IMHO better than Amell's capacity to do so. I am glad you have found a show that gives you SOOO much joy, and I would never attempt to change your mind. Well because, it's just like you said, it's just a tv show, a COMMENT board to share/express your personal views. Plus IMHO, at the end of the day it's just an a opinion. See what I did there?;-) All I am saying is it's seems the majority ( MAJORITY RULES) of the world, that actually know of this shows existence, aren't very fond of the happenings in Star(ling) City. I would think that this comment board, and weekly ratings of it would tell you this. Do you know how long Arrow would last on bigger networks? Constantine sure found out, so now he gets to show up here. Best believe theirs gonna be some HATE WATCHIN goin on when that happens! Seeya then;-)
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Oct 09, 2015
Hahaha :) sorry but you lost me at
"Fourth, remember BUFFY? I sure do, and the epic spin-off? Wow, Angel like the Flash are IMHO better than the flagships!"

The rest i just skim read because i was actually crying with laughter about your ridiculous statement -
But this is coming from someone who still has DL Hawkins (one of the WORST characters ever to exist) as a profile pic - so i take your opinions as a pinch of salt

ridiculous statement mate -
You're watching TV and you want realism - there lies the problem

Grant Gustin is clearly a good looking lad, if he looked like the actor who plays Cisco - he wouldn't be cast as The Flash - he was cast solely on his looks (that's how the CW work)
he has no range, and i still stick by that - i have seen him in three things - 90210, Arrow and The Flash - and his acting range is no different to those that people call 'wooden'
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Oct 08, 2015
I'll be very suprised if it isn't Felicity's grave. Felicity & Oliver relationship always upset my stomach. I always hoped they'd never go there, but they went and it only meant one thing. If you are not familiar with the comics that's fine. But i can see how forced it is to keep Oliver having girlfriends. Frankly, he shouldn't find the time to be with anyone. But they had to have the bad drama from soap operas. Now we have to suffer because he has to be with his "the one".
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Oct 08, 2015
Sorry, just wasn't that in to it. Love Neal McDonough though. Plays a great psycho. Hopefully the season gets better, and Diggle gets a better mask.
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