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Fringe: When Over There Comes Over Here

Fringe S04E12: "Welcome to Westfield"

Fringe got all Twilight Zone on us tonight with "Welcome to Westfield," which started out genuinely creepy. Like, peek-through-my-hands scary. But by the time the whole thing was over, we'd seen many signs that Season 4 is about to get 10 kinds of crazy, and I really like where this is headed.

Our Universe A Timeline B Fringe Division trio of Walter, Olivia, and Peter examined a hot spot of unusual electro-magnetic activity, which had been brought to their attention by a plane that fell out of the sky like a hailstone after its instruments went wacky. A hankering for rhubarb pie sent them to the town of Westfield, Vermont, a quaint spot with less than a thousand residents. But all was not right in Westfield; and one could even say it was all wrong. The server at the diner greeted Walter with small-town charm, took his order, then quickly came back and started the entire process all over again, this time pulling a knife and trying to poke Walter with the pointy end. Peter, who was in the can, found a man named Cliff in the back of the restaurant who'd been beaten to near death, then returned just in time to save Walter's life. Then Olivia, who'd been outside trying to find a working phone because her cell wasn't getting any signal, shot the knife-wielding small-town nutjob to death. And did I mention that the guy's eyes were totally weird? As in, he had two irises. I'm no ophthalmologist, but that ain't right.

But wait, it gets even freakier. While driving to get Cliff some medical attention, our team exited Westfield. Then re-entered Westfield. Then exited Westfield. Then re-entered Westfield, all while driving in the same direction. Team Fringe was stuck in Westfield with no way to communicate with the outside world and a town full of people slowly going insane. It was like a mediocre horror movie!

Cliff eventually took the group to his safe house, a high school where a dozen other survivors were holed up, and that's when Walter figured out what was going on: The two universes were being smashed together, and the overlap was happening in Westfield. As a result, people in Westfield were merging with their counterparts in the alternate universe version of Westfield, physically and mentally. That meant recounting memories that weren't theirs and, in some cases, growing an extra set of various body parts. I'm not too sure about the science of it all, but it was gross.

Peter and Walter used great teamwork to deduce that the safest place to be was in the epicenter of the universes' smush room (to quote Snooki) because "the sum of equal and opposite vectors is zero." At that point, "Welcome to Westfield" moved from freaky horror movie to pretty standard disaster action movie as the team fought their way to safety. Case of the week: SOLVED! It was a pretty easy way to wrap up that story, but the case wasn't what made this episode so good.

What was REALLY interesting about "Welcome to Westfield" was how it began to turn the tables on Peter's appearance in this universe. In recent episodes we've seen Walter and Peter really start to connect like they did in the good old days. But the change in Walter hasn't just been limited to how he acts around Peter; Walter has become a changed man around everyone, his passion for life renewed, his appetite for unusual sweets bigger, his interest in getting out of the lab greater. And best of all, he's no longer hammering railroad spikes into his own eye in an attempt to lobotomize himself. This Walter, as Peter noted, is a lot like the old Walter.

The same thing has slowly been happening with Olivia. It started several episodes ago, when she asked Peter about her counterpart being incredibly important to him; she's continued to grow since then. Granted, Olivia's case is different from Walter's. While Walter is merely feeling like he's reconnecting with his son, Olivia is having steamy sex dreams about Peter, possibly due to crossover from the Other Side. I'm going to assume that Walter isn't having similar dreams, though I'm sure some slash-fiction writers want to see it happen. But as Peter spends more time with Olivia, and possibly because of all the universe intermingling in tonight's episode or Nina's experiments, Olivia from the old timeline is bleeding through. Which allowed "Welcome to Westfield" to culminate in that final kiss and take-out Italian dinner she had prepared. ZOMG. So great to see old Olivia but also so weird, and Peter's face agrees.

What I love about this is that it really rewards the viewers who didn't complain about this Olivia and this Walter not being the same Olivia and Walter we knew from the other timeline, therefore demolishing the relationships those characters had built. I think those who did complain about that development may have missed the point of the series. Fringe is still very much about those relationships, and though it's examining them in a very unusual way, it's much more powerful and unique as a result. The idea was to show what kind of impact Peter has had on these people, no matter what part of time and space he's in. It was to show us that we'll always remain true to our true selves. It was to show us that Peter is either a really great guy who's destined to be with Olivia and Walter from the other timeline, or that he's some cosmic force that's meant to correct whatever universe he's in. Remember, Olivia and Walter didn't really care for Peter that much in the beginning of the series. It was over time that their relationships with him grew, and that's exactly what's happening again in Season 4. Clearly, Jeff Pinkner and J.H. Wyman have known what they were doing all along, because Season 4 is heading into some fascinating science-fiction and philosophical territory.

With these relationships moving closer toward what we were familiar with in Season 3, it raises the question of whether or not Peter might be able to stick around with this Olivia—who for all intents and purposes is identical to the old Olivia—and be happy. That same question arose when Fauxlivia was pretending to be Olivia in Season 2, but this time the stakes are a bit higher. This time it isn't someone fooling Peter, it's someone who actually believes she's the woman Peter loves (has anyone seen Solaris?). And with Walter extra keen on Peter now, will there be new resistance to him leaving? Will this Walter and Olivia push him to stay? How about instead of a fight between universes and Olivia vs. Fauxlivia, a fight between Olivias from different timelines? Yikes!

"Welcome to Westfield" raised a lot of questions, but they were the right kind of questions that extend beyond just what's happening on the screen.

Notes from the Other Side:

– Did you know that rhubarb is a vegetable? I always think of it as a fruit, mostly because of its pie-ability. But here's where it gets weird. In the United States rhubarb is classified as a fruit because we use it as a fruit. Isn't that totally ridiculous? Stop being such a snob, United States!

– Olivia's apartment number: 2A! As in Timeline 2 Universe A! Maybe?

– Plane crash. Whole town leveled. I'd like to see how the FBI covers this one up. And if it all happened over here, what happened in the other universe?


Follow TV.com writer Tim Surette on Twitter: @TimAtTVDotCom

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I loved every single moment of this one. Definitely my favourite of the season so far. Can't wait for next week to see what happens next.
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Thanks Tim, now I want rhubarb pie.



This was the most entertaining episode of this season for me thus far, but maybe that is because I love cheesy horror movies. As soon as the gentleman taking Walter's order repeated himself, I knew we were in for a real treat! I loved the pacing of this episode, and enjoyed that they found the solution, wrapped up the plot, and left the last scene between Peter and Olivia as the cliffhanger. THAT WAS AWESOME. I CANNOT wait until the next episode.



You are right Tim, THIS is the big payoff we have been waiting for. I personally didn't mind the characters being different from the ones we originally fell in love with on the show, because I had faith in the writers that they would either eventually get Peter back to his timeline or somehow slowly make these characters become more like the originals. Fringe is a sci-fi show with a slow unraveling of brilliant story telling, and I'm just grateful to be along for the ride.



I have to say that since the moment we saw Peter pop up out of Reiden Lake, I have been pondering if this is not a different timeline at all, just one without the presence of Peter. With his return, this universe can slowly start to change back to the way things were before he disappeared. This is what 'ekwartler' has suggested below, and it is definitely a theory that has merit.



Lastly, did the two-faced man that popped up on the bus remind anyone else of the creepy man from the beginning of Jacksonville? Isn't that essentially what sort of happened during that episode but for a shorter duration of time?
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Did you know that rhubarb is a vegetable? Yes.

Did you know there is an albino rhubarb??
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I squeed so much. There was a whole tertiary universe of squee. This is my reward for loving this show.
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I LOVE FRINGE so MUCH

I just hope that they didn't kick Peter out in the end in the season by making him sacrifice for Olivia :(
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I have a theory about that................. From what the Observer said, and given the fact that TV series do not kill off a 3rd of the main characters, I suspect Altlivia will be the one to go....... We've got a lot less invested in her.
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I agree that Walter & Olivia are starting to behave like A universe A timeline Walter & Olivia, but if Walter AB is changing and is starting to resemble the old Walter AA, does that mean that Walternet BB will change as-well and become evil as BA Walternet?
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@RebeccaDemers That's what I think as well! The longer Peter's still in Universe A the more memories will continue to come back to the people he knows! And of course it would have to start with Olivia and Walter. Solid season so far!
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This actually proves what i have been thinking right from the beggining of this season and that is that this is his Universe,the only difference is that he was suppose to not exist and the memories of Olivia Walter etc etc... about him erased.And now im definitely 100% sure that whe gonna see season 5 from Fringe.
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I see you'd already said pretty much what I just posted as a reply below. Yes, right, it makes sense because he is supposed to not exist. So now it is the best of everything - the timeline is correct but Walter and Olivia still get Peter.
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I seriously think that there are only 2 universes and the Olivia and Walter of season 4 are the same people just who they would have been had both Peters died as children. The memories bleeding thru are because Peter did not truly vanish 100% from existence.
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To add this..... there is some logic here as well. In fact, this series 4 timeline is the real timeline. He shouldn't have lived. The Observer saved him, but was not supposed to.



Not to get too squishy here..... but perhaps a key thing is the strength of love. Maybe we are being shown that, even though he was taken from existence, to the people that loved him, he still has some presence.



Either way, I'm with 14815524 on this, even if he /she does have a silly name :). We've now invested in these new versions. I don't think we should go back now.
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this is my theory as well. otherwise they will dump these characters in "timeline b" just to go back to another set of the whole cast and scrap all the character development in this season, which is turning out to become very much like the old timeline.
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That's what I think as well! The longer Peter's still in Universe A the more memories will continue to come back to the people he knows! And of course it would have to start with Olivia and Walter. Solid season so far!
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oh tim, you time and time again make me, laugh ALOT, and yet also make me think more than I would have before about an episode I just watched a few days ago.....I have also read your weekly episode recaps of supernatural, lost and true blood when you did them too....and of course the always funny new briefs.....



I hope you read this.....lol
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Does anyone know of a flow chart or weird graph thinger, like the ones seen back when Lost was in it's prime, showing the relationship of every one and all their versions with each other? Including Universe 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B and the future/past versions, that were briefly shown at some point during the show (I forget when exactly that happened).
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My, personal, thought process on the current plot line of fringe is complex so I'm going to try to say this as simple, and forward as I can think to. Let me begin by reminding Lost friends of a major tricked used to catch the viewers off guard. Between the finale cliff hanger season finale ( season 5 ) we see the core characters trying to alter the time line of events which caused the chain effect of their time on the island. We as viewers believed the opening sequence of season 6 to be tied to the events of season 5 finales when in reality the opening plane flight sequence was in reference to the end of the show or rather after all the events of season 6 played out. When dealing with time as if it where plato; we as audience members forget that all fixed variables are no longer fixed. Air go, what we believe to be proven, in reality, is just as unknown as the facts clearly unknown. What does any of this have to do with fringe?? If you've made it this far thank you, and I promise a point is coming soon.

At the end of fringe season 3 we watched Peter attempt to fix destroying one universe for the sake of another. Peter deduces that if he can take himself out of the given timeline from the moment he created the rip then he can prevent all the events which led up to the B Universe being destroyed.

Starting to see the relevance of my LOST comment yet??)

We watch Peter use the machine for this purpose, and after expecting to not exist, he finds himself in a room filled with all the important characters from universe a & b. Long behold Peter is existing on a plane (or is it plain ) of existence not detectable by the human eye or mind. Thus far everything explained fit's the events. Simply put, Peter had successfully removed himself from both timeline.

Now we arrive to season 4 where throughout the episodes thus far we've discovered a couple things which to me are not fully contestant.

1) Peter is neither in his A or B universe, but rather some other set of universes ( being as their is an infinite amount of them ).

2)Peter did in fact, willingly, remove himself from his original two universe's, and moved himself to a universe where he was not a factor or rather an anomaly.

Number two has a very important point which you must keep in mind. It helps to think of Peter as Neo from The Matrix. The Matrix was a splendid reminder that the universe ( like a computer program ) is govern by the laws of nature which can be seen through the math. As with all math there is always a .1 percent which does not follow the rules govern by the universe. In The Matrix we see Neo as a representative of the anomaly. At the core of this philosophy we witness how a single anomaly that go as far as alter the laws of nature. Thus far, everything truly fringe related is the effect of an anomaly, Peter.

Which bring me to the whole point of this rant, can you believe this is the simple & shorter version of this thought?? Scary!!

So then.. my theory or thought process is as followed:

Peter is in fact in his own timeline. Peter did not move across the board of universes, but rather altered his own. As a result of his return to said universe, I believe, Peter is correcting the changes made by the lack of appearance simply by existing again. The universe does not know how to compute this new change, and as a result it is resetting itself to the old universe. This of coarse will bring us back to the issue of only one universe can survive. Air go, the observes are afraid the existence of this single Peter could inadvertently destroyed ALL universes.

Well, I'm done! If you've made it this far then thank you. I only hope you haven't finished this comment thinking to yourself that this was gibberish. Tim.. I WOULD LOVE to hear what you think about my theory. I personally see some issues, but thats where it leaves room for conversation. Why does the observe say Olivia has to die. If the machine helped Peter remove himself from the said timeline then why is the death of this universes Peter explained by the observer (August or September?) simply having not saved Peter when he fell through the ice. Like I said, room for perspective. I guess in the end you can say this show really is the sister show of lost. Thanks for your time!
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"Air go" Lol. It's "ergo".



But I digress.



I used to believe that this was a different timeline, but after the recent episode that doesn't make sense. Olivia seeing things through different universes, sure. Her being able to cross over randomly during previous seasons is acceptable, but different timelines? I don't like that at all and it doesn't quite make much sense either. Heh, like crossing over multiple universes "makes sense", but you know what I mean.



Remembering what the observers said to each other, September was supposed to take out Peter from the timeline (and yes, there is only one timeline). He apparently didn't "completely" do that because, well... he likes Peter as I'm sure we all do as well.



Instead, September cheated and took him out only to throw him back in again. This is strictly going against the wishes of the other observers and I'm sure this is what caused September to show up wounded to Olivia and warn her of her inevitable death. It appears Peter's removal from the timeline was supposed to balance out and protect both universes, but since he was thrown back in, Olivia's death is now required to balance out both universes. Either that or she's just going to die because her time is up.



With Peter's return, the very nature of physics or what have you, have gone haywire. A man that shouldn't exist, does. Because of that, the universe itself is slowly trying to compensate for this anomaly and trying to figure out what is naturally right, which is the way it was before September removed Peter from existence.
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Well Peter deciding to stay would be a tough call.



He had a life with the "old" Olivia. And "Olivia" that, for all we know, is sitting in her living room and STILL crying over the sacrifice Peter made and her role in it as the "crowbar"



It's like your dog running away, finding a new dog of the same breed that's just as friendly, and knows the old tricks. And deciding NOT to go to the pound to rescue your old friend because you've already settled. You should be thinking of the old dog as well.
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He can decide all he wants. It's most likely that he has nowhere to go, he's here already and there's no other Olivia.
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I've been thinking this might be how it is as well.
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What a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant tv show. I must admit, I was getting frustrated with the lost relationships in series 4. However, this ep, both in the evident growth in Peter's relationship with Walter and Olivia, and the ending, showed something quite inspired.



This is one of those rare occasions when cast and crew together are doing and can do great things, and I so hope Fox sees this amazing potential and clears the way for a series 5 (and beyound?).



I'm wondering whether this ending is pointing towards everyone else, not Peter, being in the wrong timeline. Not sure what difference that makes show-wise though. I can't wait to see how Olivia's kiss is explained. Clearly these writers, directors, producers and actors are well ahead of me. The surprises and great moments just keep coming.
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amazing episode, I really think that it is still the same universe that peter lived in before. Due to the machine, peter was erased from time, and this caused the fact that no one knew him. But now, since he has been living among them for sometime, they are starting to remember him and time is trying to correct the error that happened when Peter was erased. I think Peter will start realizing that he was in the right universe all along.

If you look at the observers, they are pissed that Peter is back because they tried to correct their early mistake of helping Walter save Peter, I can not wait to see what the observers are planning?

What I still don't understand is why Nina is doing what she is doing? what would she gain from destroying both universes?
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So i take it Peter was erased from his timeline and reappeared in this Universe's Timeline A. He wasn't meant to be here, but as he somehow is a force of his own, and very powerful, he somehow started to change this Universe too. Does this mean there won't be 'his universe' anymore at some point as the two are going to merge somehow, or what? Anyway, Fringe is getting better and better, and I already think it's kind of perfect already :)
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Nope. Peter was erased from where he is now. Therefore this Universe got changed. But either the "erasing" was done wrong or Mr September on purpose let Peter back in, him being back is bringing back the memories that in a way have alrady happened just got erased. It's like when you erase something from the harddrive - it's gone but the imprint is still left there somewhere and you can rebuild lost data. Since Peter was immensely important to Olivia, the forces of nature are recovering the lost data.



So Peter didn't and will not lose anything. Just he will have to work for his relationships once more to bring them back the way they were.



Grrr! That's why I hate this multiple timeline idea - it inevitably brings a sense of loss and disappointment since then something is lost : this 'timeline' or the one we saw in seasons 1-3.

I strongly believe the writers WOULD NOT corner themselves like this, they have proven to be too smart for that..
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This all started because Olivia was horny ;)



1) No.. Who cares about rhubarb



2) Interesting.. care to go back and watch prior episode and look for her room number?



3) No nobody knew about Westfield and it didn't be the 11 O'clock news problem solved
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So I'm admitting I didn't read every comment before me but I'll be breaking this down as I see it. Forgive if I'm repeating anyone's ideas here.



1st premiss: For starters, I'll be assuming here one very important thing. In every respect, a different timeline IS another universe. It's a different branch in the tree of causality.



2nd premiss: Peter erased himself from the universe we knew and created a soft spot between two linked universes



3rd premiss: Explaining the one above, these two universes are joined through a bond. That bond should be the action that made the original timeline to split in two different universes.



1st hypothesis: This is the part I have more difficulty wrapping my head around because I can't assume for sure which moment in time created the original rapture. Many people assume it's Peter, but I'm guessing Walter Bishop probably did something previously which separated these sequences. I don't exactly remember everything from the previous seasons but there must be a determinable point in time where the timelines diverged. Maybe we haven't seen it yet, but I'm assuming way before Peter was born.



4th premiss: Supported by the fact that the subconscious is mysteriously harder to erase [citation needed] and that September refused to erase Peter's echoes from existence [citation needed], then his shadow remained in HIS world. However, life went on as it was as if he never overcame his illness and died as a boy. The repercussions echoed.



Random notes 1: Could it be that Peter had second thoughts about removing himself and left those echoes? Or probably had to leave them for what I'll be explaining later...



Random notes 2: When Liv met Peter as kids, was that before or after his illness? I'm unsure about this.



5th Premiss: Eventually the feedback from those echoes reverberated into a physical form. However Peter doesn't remember everything, and if he does he's not letting us know about it. Details like the bond with Olivia with the machine and having used it to clear himself from existence. You know, the important stuff and whatnot.



6th Premiss: Someone made the machine. Someone made the Bio-mechanical interface.



7th Premiss: We know for a fact that Walter sent the machine to the past and wrote "The First People"



2nd Hypothesis: Peter and Walter made the Bio-Mechanical interface that bugged Peter in the previous seasons. We're entering the chicken-and-the-egg paradox here which is quite interesting. It will be nice to see also how Olivia is incorporated also. Could be we'll be into some time-redundancy as well.



Random note 3: Still no idea on what are Nina Sharp's plans and WTH is her mission but i'm ready to assume it will have a big impact.



Random Hypothesis 1: Our villain probably want to build a free soft spot to cross between universes, but how does that work with our town? Does it have a couple doors, one each side, like we get on liberty island?



Hypothesis 3: The echoes from Peter's existance (vs non-existance) are still growing. His physical appearance was just another step that ensured another ripple on the lake. But as his presence (cosmic presence Tim? I liked that term) becomes known to the universe, it does not only ripple forward, but also back, and in all directions in all known dimensions. The world will slowly become aware of his presence. For every action there is a reaction (although admittedly Newton's laws seem to make little sense in the fringe mythology, we saw a practical example of its application on this very episode), and in order to Peter to be physically there, the universe will adapt and rewrite the past to make the present possible.



Sorry for possible redundancies in my speech, it's 4 am as i'm writing this and tiredness is a factor. This is what I remembered and penned down. There might be other stuff i forgot but there are still plenty to be even hypothetically explained. That's what makes this show so good. Makes us think, imagine, wonder, reach out in and outside the box and in the end, we'll either be surprised by the outcome, or proud of having at least made a sustainable prediction. Go Fringe, Eff the ratings
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So, that there's no doubts about my last hypothesis, we should start to see the world slowly changing to what we remembered from it. It will be fun to see how they'll incorporate the last weeks where everything was a blur. We already saw Olivia as she was (not mixing thoughts with another Olivia, just remapping this timeline as if Peter had always been there). Walter is also changing, but he'll be more subtle, as Noble is such an undeniably immense actor in a different dimension (no pun intended) from everyone else, and also because Walter is much less attached to reality. How this process will be handled now that we'll have to wait and see.



That is if i'm in any way right at all... of course xD
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It's strange that it took everyone two thirds of the episode to figure out what was happening, since the same thing already occurred in the Jacksonville episode. Even if that didn't happen in this timeline, at least Peter from the old timeline should have understood what was going on. It was obvious for anyone in the audience, at least when Olivia mentioned the case that tthe Olivia in this timeline wasn't involved with.



Thus it was a half hour wait for Walter to understand what all of us already knew. It would have been so much better if he actually understood at an earlier point, and then dealt with the ramifications of the fact. The merging in itself is of course intriguing, but there was not enough time to explore that in this episode.
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Amazing episode! The best, yet.
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The way I see it, I've never been really convinced about the "two timelines" deal. I think there's actually no place for Peter to "go back to" because he was erased, but somehow the hold he had in Olivia and Walter is soo strong that they caused those echos The Observers talked about. I think that also explains the visions and dreams both Olivia and Walter had about Peter. How do you explain that if this is another timeline?

So I think somehow Peter won't go back anywhere and this Olivia and this Walter will end up going back to being, or merging with, the Olivia and Walter from season 3...

but that's just me =P
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I agree, this is one of my favourite theories as well, and I've been waiting to see if the show will be going in that direction. And right now, it seems to be doing exactly that.

You can see that Walter no longer wishes for Peter to leave, and there's so much epic heartache there it could practically drive the show itself, even WITHOUT the equally epic lovestory between Peter and Olivia.

I'm very curious to see if Nina's experiments has anything to do with Olivia's "bleed-through" memories.

The thing is, I really do believe Peter is some sort of "cosmic trigger", and that Olivia is at the very least some sort of catalyst for him - after all, it took the two of them to work the machine, and they were clearly meant to.

I just can't wait to see where they're taking this, and I HOPE they manage to actually FINISH the storylines wether or not they get another season!
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The episode we've all been waiting for???
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Really scary episode!!! I also thought about Twilight Zone, reminded me when I was 6 and that show used to scare the sh$t out of me!



Murderboy says: "and note Lost fans, it all makes SENSE in a very Sy-Fy sort of way" that's childish but... ROFL!



Never seen rhubarb before, wouldn't recognise even if it bit me bottom, next time I go to the USA will make sure to look for a pie made of it :-)





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the need fringe fans have to compare this show to lost is very disturbing... why so insecure?! fringe stands on its own two feet... well at least until fox cancels it...
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I compare it because Lost was soooooo good and then it got sooooooo bad and became ruined forever. Fringe is on a track to be the better show for all time...
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That is simpy not true. The best seasons of Lost were season 3 and 5, and there were lots of great stuff in the last season as well. The first and second season was really not that great. I actually stopped watching the first season, but started watching again after I was told season 3 was something different altogether.
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Agreed.
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My "universes merging/Event horizon" theory is lookin better n better. ....



I can't wait for the next episode...
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this episode had a different feel to it, very twilight zone indeed

i just love fringe, its candy for my mind

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Abrams have something for planes.. lol very good episode 10/10
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Abrams has a say in Fringe at the moment, the same way he had in the original Star Trek.
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1.1 in the ratings and barely 3 million viewers, from such a beautiful episode and that's all it scored. We're screwed, i really don't see how fringe can be renewed again, and if they cut the budget more they have already i fear the quality of the show will start decreasing fast.
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We ARE screwed. Fox is brainless, what with the awful Alcatraz and Terra Nova shows getting good spots and putting Fringe against Supernatural on Friday. Way to - AGAIN - Fox...
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its sad
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It's the stalk of the rhubarb plant that's eaten, hence it's a vegetable. And what would surprise most is that these plants can have very long lives. We have a plant in the backyard that came from one planted over 100 years ago. That plant is at least 45 years old. Harvesting regularly keeps the plants small so size isn't always a factor in determining age.



It's looking like these two universes are starting to merge with the other two universes.
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This episode gave me new hope about the series, but here's my thing. We all know Fringe is a bubble show, and I don't want Fox to cancel it before we can get the finale Lost never was. I read somewhere that Pinkman and Wyman have it all planned out with some chapters that could stay or go. Fringe deserves to end well for all the loyal fans it does have. Hopefully Fox is decent enough to give them enough notice. The Lost/Fringe showdown really got me thinking. I voted for Lost, but if Fringe can end well I would change my vote.
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Awesome episode, and an amazing show. Fringe really is one of the greats out there right now.
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Didn't the zombie-like guy walking dragging a doll remind anyone of a scene from The Walking Dead? I almost felt like Peter was actually going to blow his head up with that shotgun...
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The whole episode kept reminding me of Supernatural, even the zombie-like guy.
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I think that was the mood they were going for, haha
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Reilly noted, "and we're not in the business of losing money."

Really?? Explain how you can state that and still have Terra Nova last longer than 15 minutes?? Production is phoned in, editing is amateur, acting is only as good as the writing, and the writing is childish at best. The storylines have no continuity. You have the highest salaries going for executives that show up once a week for a head nod or a handshake with a quick stop at craft services and gone. The supposed CGI was better on Land of The Lost. Claymation would be an improvement.

I promise you, if this show returns, a letter campaign is the LEAST of your worries. I will campaign to boycott any advertiser sponsoring this dog for as long as they waste our time. Trust me, I am NOT alone!!



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J.J. has stated that he intends to have a conclusion for the last episode this year!! "Just in case" Fringe is not renewed.

I REFUSE to contemplate that DAMN Terra NO-GOOD returning and this show being cancelled!! That freakin money pit SHOULD be all stills framed in EVERY executive's office with a sign below reading "DON'T let this happen to you!!"

If it does cause Fringe's demise, I will boycott EVERY advertiser and I urge you all to do the same.

Dinosaurs are DEAD, leave it that way!!
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The Observer said Olivia dies in every future version he saw. Does that apply to Bolivia as well?
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good question. I'm assuming not since he didn't visit Fauxlivia like he did Olivia. Although maybe he did and we don't know. We haven't really had an episode that focused on the Other Side completely since One Night In October
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they're the same person with different personality!
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As I`ve been reading here, I, too, wish this were Peter`s original timeline, just with him erased, so nobody remembers him. Then he wouldn`t have any other timeline to come back to, and the events from seasons 1-3 would eventually bleed into people`s memories in this timeline, making it complete again. However, as it has already been pointed out, it`s not just a matter of remembering Peter or not. There are facts that would need to be changed, like Broyel`s death and Bolivia`s baby. What would happen to those events



It would be great if Bolivia`s baby came to exist again because that would create new tension between the Olivias from both universes and Peter would have an extra reason to visit Universe B more often. Besides, I really like Bolivia (or Faux-livia, whatever you call her). She`s fun and sexy, and more outgoing that Universe A Olivia. If I were Peter I wouldn`t be so sure what Olivia to choose.



Another thing. Seth Grabel`s name was in the initial credits but Lincoln was nowhere to be seen this time.



Speaking of universes crossing, I`d like to see Walter somehow getting into the Pie Hole, in. the Pushing Daisies universe. He would have the time of his life with aqll the pies there.
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If Peter just ceased to exist, then no other timeline was created because Peter never existed - no need for two timelines without a Peter. And if Peter never existed then it follows that everything Peter did never happened, except we know that it did because we all saw it. What we have here, then, is a paradox that must resolve itself since Peter returned from wherever he was - or wasn't. Very clever writing, indeed - and note Lost fans, it all makes SENSE in a very Sy-Fy sort of way
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There is this interesting discussion here in the comments about TIMELINES and UNIVERSES. The majority(Tim including) thinks of the universes A & B and timeline 1 in seasons 1-3 and timeline 2 solely altered through Peter's death as a boy and his absence afterwards. Am I right so far ? Easypeasy. Now there are some things I need to wrap my head around ...

1 Peter, who is none the less brilliant than his dad, refers not to his "timeline" but to his "universe", as if there where still His dad and His Olivia and all the things he experienced and interacted with.

2 Olivia who starts to remember things she never experienced - she seems to become the Olivia we knew - but that is formally impossible(the impossible person). The memories and feelings have to come from .. what ? The non-existant past ?

If we presume that September and the Observers changed the timeline from seas 1-3 by removing Peter - they would have altered reality to some great expanse.

That is a logical impossibility, a PARADOX, as some of you correctly insisted. Therefore, as Spock explained quite some time ago, timetravels into the past are logically impossible, because if the timetravel changes anything it desroys the previous timeline and all the reality within binding the responsible timetraveller to a strictly observing position(can watch but no touch). Why should the reality allow dimensional and time travel but at the same time be so picky about the consequences ? That is if you have just one universe , or reality or timeline. If you have multiverses you can travel into other universes but changing anything would either create a new timeline/reality or destroy and alter the old one.

If you think of multiverses, COUNTLESS realities, you can probalby travel through them and in the case of the observers even through time in the same fashion. So instead of going to point whatsoever in your timeline in your universe you go to point whatsoever of a different timeline and a different universe. So from let's say 1278 universes there are 2 realities presented in seas 1-3, BLUE and RED, whereas you have the constellation of individuals naming Walter and Peter Bishop, Olivia, Broyles, RDJ, Nina, Bell etc who are all of interest to the observers because they are responsible and/or entangled in reality changing/destroying events. So from all the realities those two are causing trouble because the clash of those two universes could have started a chain-reaction , not only destroing themselves but also any other universe. That was bad. Peter did what he did by building a constant bridge between the universes, making them stable again, stopping the chain-reaction. Let's call that all happened to the last seconds of seas 3 "reality A".

"Reality B" was firstly presented to us with the last secs of seas 3 and the begin of seas 4 and it is completely possible that either Peter did use (unintentional) the machine to completely destroy reality A instead of "just" the blue or the red universe, which I don't believe he did, or he corrected anyhow reality A. As a side effect of the machine, Peter was not completely erased from every possible reality like the obs expected him to but instead was stuck in the ultimate "between". In a quite poetic fashion Peter was pulled to "reality B" (the stable, connected universes) because of his love to Olivia and his Dad, and reality B was the closest to reality A. Reality B has a stable bridge between 2 very similar universes - either this bridge existed without Peter's doing or because of his.

Olivia B and Walter B rematerialised Peter and since then as Tim pointed out anyone who had an emotional binding with him starts to remember more and more from his/her alternate of reality A.

In Peter's worst case these memories come from the emotional ripple of ceased reality A transcending through reality B mirrored by the individual alternates. In his best case(that is what he is hoping for) reality A still exists and there is this weird connection between all alternates on an emotional, inner level and he might switch back to reality A.

For Olivia, Walter and all the others of reality B the "sole timeline switch theory" would implicate that Peter does not switch between existing realities and just leaving reality B but rather correcting reality B to become reality A.

CHANGING reality by another might be more unsettling to some alternates than another SWITCHING between two realities. Because when A becomes B (again), B doesn't longer exist. And if A is still there - how is A doing ?

Right now I can't say if Peter has to stick with reality B with the chance of new or some of the old happiness he had , or if he will leave for reality A (IF still existing) , or if reality B is just altered reality A and he seeks to undo the alteration even by the risk of destroying all realities. After this episode I'm beginning to hope that Peter will get used to reality B. I am truly excited about the writer's intentions and where we will ultimately end up.
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I say most of you are right on target that Peter is where he's supposed to be and there are only two universes in play here. There's no place like home scarecrow. And you were there and you were there......
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Plane being brought down due to electromagnetism.... How is there no mention of LOST here? I was grinning to myself like an idiot. :D
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I liked the episode, but not as much as I thought I would. I thought it would be creepier. However, I loved Olivia having little moments of her memory rekindling in her. I've always thought that this universe is the same one from the original seasons, but the reset of the timeline is still in effect, even with Peter.
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Oh shit TJ, didn't see that. Sympatico my brother. lol.
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Add a commeFringe just keeps getting better and better, but I'm having a little problem. Every article and comment I read about this show suggests and even demands that there are 3 alternate universes/timelines in play this season. I don't see that. From what I see, Peter is in the SAME universe and timeline he was in, only in THIS universe he simply never existed. Well, not NOT existed, but the whole raiden lake thing just never happened. I mean, everything else is pretty much the same. It doesn't take a genious to figure out that this Walter won't want to send Peter back, until he realized he's NOT sendinig him back, he'll just be putting him into place.
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Also, now that I've read some comments, apparently alot of people agree with me. Awesome
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Ok, I didnt read through 72 comments to see if this has been mentioned, but to me this episode started to make me believe that this Olivia and Walter ARE the original Olivia and Walter. Peter essentially blinking out of existance in the season finale last year caused this whole "its a wonderful life" thing where we see versions of everyone if Peter never existed. But as time goes on, the more people spend time with Peter in this universe, the more the universe begins to correct itself around him, so Walter becomes more social, Olivia starts to remember their life together, etc...



Thoughts?
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Begs the huge question of WHY and what the Observers have to do with it. I am sure they did something (their dialog about Peter having served his purpose). Argh! So many theories and questions.
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-Used to work in the produce department of a grocery store. Knew that about rhubarb. 'Tis a weird creature.

-Maybe, but fun, nonetheless.

-NO CLUE!!! This show is rocking my awesome with a bit of totally rad in there. I just watched the episode and probably need some time to calm down before I can properly and logically evaluate the episode. Keep it coming "Fringe".
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I keep forgetting to pick up some rhubarb from the market. It is super nutritious. I haven't had rhubarb pie or rhubarb anything for decades.



I am not really surprised that this universe/timeline is starting to get wonky. It was wonky from the jump; Peter appearing in the flesh was only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.



There was a reason the Observer boss told September to erase Peter for good. I suspect not doing so will have universal consequences (pun intended).



There is not much to cover up. This was the town no one had ever heard of anyway and a hand full of people with a story no one in their right mind would believe. The plane had mechanical failure, the town had a...spin, spin, spin, etc.
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Was I the only one that was a little freaked out with Walter's eyes? They seemed to glow in some scenes.

I'm not high right now btw.



Great episode of Fringe, how this show gets no ratings is beyond me...the show has been awesome since the second half of the first season.
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I've also noticed that before. Maybe his eyes just reflect the light in some weird way..
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I thought my screen or my eyes were doing something weird.
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Wow, I actually (sort of) predicted this back in January, and I quote

"Maybe, having Peter back in the timeline is slowly making things go back to how they were prior to his minor case of non-existence - ie, more stable Walter, him and Oliver going all doe-eyed for each other (hard luck Lincoln) etc. Maybe this is his original 'verse and there is no other timeline for him to return to?"



The other timeline no longer exists, there is only this one and now that Peter is back in it the timeline is sorting itself to be more consistant with how it was prior to Peter's non-existence.



This was a fantastic episode (and not just because I called it - which usually doesn't happen), the case-of-the-week was a great send back to the days of The X Files, as some commentors have already mentioned, but it was the final scene that really stole the show. I knew something was going to happen like that but I wasn't expecting such a big change so quickly, I thought they'd have strung it out for another episode.



This season has, for me, cemented this series' position in the higher echelons of TV greatness, alongside (or more accurately, surpassing) the aforementioned The X Files. I can't remember a single episode that has disappointed me going all the way back to the pilot. I know it doesn't look good for a season 5 of Fringe, but I truely hope that Fox decide to pull the funding from the dreadful Terra Nova and use the money to allow fringe a final season that everyone could be proud of.
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Dude!



Minor Case of Non-Existence could so be a band name.
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I would so buy their albums!



Also, if next weeks Fringe doesn't pick up THE SECOND this one left off, I'm gonna freak out, big time.
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Same here!
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That's a fantastic idea - I just have to learn how to play an instument.
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I play the trumpet. I'm also an okay singer (good for background vocals, but not so much leads) and an accomplished arranger (not writing music from scratch, but give me the notes and I can set it for any instrument). This is all my way of saying I'd join that band.
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Excellent start. So all we need now are a drummer, a lead guitarist, a bass player, possibly a rhythm guitarist and possibly a keyboard player... oh yeah, and a job title for me!
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Take that, Lost!
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Because characters we've known existing in another place in time slowly starting to remember their past relationships ISN'T reminiscent of Lost?



I love both shows, but this season of Fringe has been doing exactly what the last season of Lost did, and yet people hated that.
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The last season of Lost was a complete mess and nothing like Fringe, now, or ever....
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No, no, no, no. Fringe has NOT done what Lost did. Fringe has used the slight shifts in these characters in order to say something about the nature of their original relationships. These characters are still developing, if in a more subtle way (as in, this is what this person is like in these circumstances versus these other circumstances). Lost just ignored character for an outrageous plot that was clearly poorly constructed.



Drawing such a comparison is an insult to what Fringe has done so well this season. At least I think so.
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While I don't agree with you about Lost and its final season, I have to agree 100% that this is not the same as what Lost did. There are similarities, sure, as there are similarities with other ideas that were used in Lost, but Fringe handles it very differently than Lost did. That's why I feel that Fringe can either be seen as a way to make up for Lost's final season(s) or as a great companion piece to Lost, depending on which side of the Lost argument you stand on. Both do share some elements which work well for each of them, but they also have many of their own respective qualities to appeal to different people.
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And COME ON--who didn't go "SQQUUUUUEEEE!" when Olivia was old Olivia and COMPLETELY in love with Peter? I mean, you'd have to be a complete fogey not to root for these two! AGH SO GOOD!



I'm sorry; I'll stop replying to my own posts now.



EMMYEMMYEMMYEMMYSSSSSSSSS!
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Hear here....
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You're not the only one Buildam2005, I agree with you.
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Yay! Glad I'm not the only one. This show is SO GOOD. Fringe > Lost, no matter what universe you're in!



(And PS, I was a big Lost fan for a long time, so I'm not just throwing sludge.)
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nope still think they are the same Walter and Olivia we've always known
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