Game of Thrones Season 5 Finale Review: Life Sucks and Then You Die

Game of Thrones S05E10: "Mother's Mercy"

Did this episode have dinner reservations at Outback Steakhouse or something? Because it sure seemed like it was in a hurry to tear through story and sometimes not even finish them so it could rush out of the house like there would be no Bloomin' Onions left if it waited any longer. Some stories jumped straight into action without setup, and others ended with only pinkies hanging onto the edge of the cliff, leaving us to wait until next April (probably) to see if the snow was thick enough for Sansa's delicate bottom. 

But these stories... DAMN! 10,000,000 of your favorite characters died in "Mother's Mercy," proving that the so-called "mother" in this case was George R.R. Martin. And we all know his version of mercy is murdering newborn puppies. 

Still, "Mother's Mercy" was potent more than anything. I haven't screamed that much at my TV since, well, last week's Game of Thrones. And as always, these emotions, be they anger, disappointment, or happiness, are a sign of connecting with a show. And connect I did. Was "Mother's Mercy" actually good? I'm still trying to figure that out. But it kicked me in the gut, and maybe I'm into some BDSM stuff, but I liked it. You know what you signed up for after Season 1, so if you're sad that your favorite character died, then why are you watching this show? To watch Game of Thrones religiously is to subject yourself to pain, joy, awe, and more pain.

Anyway, let's all not fall for that Benjen trick and talk about what happened in "Mother's Mercy."

"Go on, do your duty." – Stannis Baratheon

You think YOU had a bad week? How about poor Stannis Baratheon? The guy just lost his daughter, for cryin' out loud, and then all THIS happened! For all the naysayers who were upset at Stannis for killing Shireen, it turned out his sacrifice worked SO THERE. The icicles were melting, and the road to Winterfell thawed out for safe passage just as Melisandre said it would. Okay, maybe it was just an unseasonably warm front moving through the area and Melisandre's magic is actually just fortunate coincidences, but something warmed things up (Shireen's ashes maybe?). Unfortunately, even if the results were there, killing your daughter wasn't a great way to build morale, and half of Stannis' forces took off overnight, probably to go home and hug their own daughters. Then Stannis found his wife swinging by her neck from the trees. And then his mistress priestess rode off and ditched him. Could things get any worse?

Yes they could and did. Stannis pressed on because he literally had nothing else to do, and the Bolton forces met Stannis' before he could set up and kicked his butt. For much of Season 5, we had been building up to this big battle between Stannis and the Boltons and what we got was an all-out slaughter by the truly bad guys. But karma wasn't done kicking Stannis in the balls. A weak and weary Stannis crawled among the dead, when Brienne popped out from behind a tree to get some overdue revenge for Renly. I mean, come on Brienne. That was Season 2. A lot's happened since then, get over it. But nope, Brienne holds onto promises like they're newborn babies and kept hers to Renly by killing Stannis. Dammit.

A lot of you out there were probably like, "Yeah, good riddance you daughter barbecuer!" when Stannis died (probably) here, but all I saw was pointless sadness. Stannis was built up into an intriguing character and one of the few frontrunners for the Iron Throne. And not long after his biggest and most controversial decision unfurled in shocking fashion last week, he was quickly killed off this week. This whole thing happened so fast that it probably didn't get the time to breathe that it deserved, reducing Stannis to a micro sidestory instead of a cautionary tale of overpowering ambition. His fall needed more time. He went from having it all to having nothing in about 10 minutes of screentime, and though Stephen Dillane did as much as he could to convey Stannis' sense of failure amid his growing losses, the last chapter in the tale of Stannis Baratheon was hurried out the door and another victim of Game of Thrones simply having too much to cover. That's a shame because I would have really liked to have seen him reflect more on his actions and wallow in their consequences, as he deserved. That was his whole purpose in the story, wasn't it? Instead, his legacy will be the man who roasted his daughter, which I think sells the character short. I guess deep down somewhere there's still a part of me that's pro-Stannis. 

And F U, Melisandre. This gal knew something was up but didn't say anything. As soon as Stannis' man told him that his army was halved, she made this face: 

That's an "awww crap" face if I've ever seen one. What did you really see in those fires, you gypsy? The flames of destiny and ambition may have burned within Stannis, but it was Melisandre who was throwing logs onto the fire. And when things were sputtering out, she just left. Yes, I'm blaming Melisandre for everything. 

Meanwhile, back at Winterfell, Sansa ran around the castle looking to GTFO. Instead, she ran into Myranda who was ready to start torturing her now on behalf of Ramsay, as if she was really going to amount to anything other than being Ramsay's sex toy (which itself is a step below kennelmaster's daughter). But Theon finally woke up and pulled off the episode's best move when he chucked Myranda over the railing to her death. 

Ha ha, I think this may have been my favorite part of the episode. No one liked Myranda at all, and I'm a sucker for some good dummy technology. Just watch the thud of the body as it hit the ground. Ouch. The spatter of blood on the ground really sold it, though. Maybe there is something to all this talk about Game of Thrones and its violence against women. Just a few minutes before this, they wouldn't even show Stannis get killed, but there's no problem showing a pretty girl smash her face into concrete at a speed of 9.8 meters per second per second. 

Theon grabbed Sansa and for some reason they decided the best way out was to jump from the highest wall of Winterfell onto the ground below and hope there was enough snowpack to cushion their fall. I thought they would have enough time to find a better way out, but apparently I was wrong. Anyway, how'd you feel about this? 

ARGH we have to wait until 2016 to find out what happened? I mean, obviously they made it and are probably halfway to the Iron Islands by now, but sheesh. One thing "Mother's Mercy" did a lot of was not finish the stories it told, which could be a little frustrating for some. They literally could have shaved off a few minutes of Cersei's walk and given Sansa more resolution and things would have been so much better. Even if they landed safely, there's still plenty of intrigue about how they'll make it away from Winterfell with all the Boltons around. But placing the cliffhanger here seemed so unnecessary and, frankly, amateur. Yep, I said it. Anyway, belated congratulations to Theon for deciding not to suck up to the man who cut off his penis and tortured him senselessly. Be strong, bro!


"A girl has taken a life. The wrong life." – Jaqen H'ghar, being totally wrong 'cuz that was the absolute right life to take

If you are the kind of person who likes to skip to the good parts, then Arya's storyline was for you. This part of the episode jumped straight into the craziness without meticulous setup, showing Meryn Trant role-playing Catholic school nun with a ruler of punishment and three (well, two) poor girls unwillingly playing the role of bad, bad schoolgirls. My initial thought of Meryn being a pedophile who liked to deflower tween virgins turned out to be too simple and generous, which made me want to throw up in my mouth. This was a man who liked to pay for the perverse privilege of beating little girls, making him even more of a giant loser than we previously thought. He obviously still needed to work out some issues from that one time he got rejected by the pretty girl in middle school.

Well, you oafish perv, one of those three girls was Arya Stark, and she did not mess around. Wearing the face of the young girl she killed back at the House of Black and White, Arya went undercover and stuck her head in the mouth of the lion to get some sweet revenge. And boy oh boy was she ready for it! Did you see the way she pounced on Meryn like he was wearing Axe body spray? Well, watch it again!

Arya stabbed Meryn in one eye, then the other eye, then stuffed some cloth in his mouth and poked a bunch of holes in his chest the same way I poke holes in the film of my microwavable Trader Joe's Chicken Tikka Masala. All Meryn could do was push out a few whimpers through the blood collecting in his throat. It was SAVAGE. Gratuitous television violence can be a touchy subject, but everyone should really appreciate a young woman eviscerating and tormenting a pedophile in brutal fashion like Arya did. Someone call Timothy Olyphant and Walton Goggins because this was justified.

But while I appreciated it, Jaqen H'ghar did not. Arya snuck back into the Facement to return the girl's face she borrowed (apparently the Faceless Men magically slip on the actual face or something?), and Jaqen was like, "Excuse me, but I ordered a dead insurance fraud guy, not a dead girl abuser." Jaqen told Arya she stole from the many-faced god, and that only death could pay for life. Then he drank some poison and died. Except he didn't die because he was actually the other girl who was there? This was unnecessarily confusing, to be honest. Who actually drank poison and died then? How were all these faces on this corpse? And then Arya went blind? Did the many-faced god do an eye for an eye thing? What's happening? And then Arya said, "What's happening?" And I was like, "THAT'S WHAT I JUST SAID!" The House of Black and White made more sense when Arya was washing the dead bodies of people who randomly died on its dusty floors, and back then I was like, "WTF?" The funny thing about Arya's story in this episode was that it was actually one of the happier endings. YEAH, that's how brutal this episode was.


Next: The Dornish kiss of death, and one tired draggy

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Jul 27, 2017
For Watching Game of Thrones Season 7 Full Episode Click This Link:
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List Of Episode Season 7:
Game of Thrones Episode 1 : Dragonstone
Game of Thrones Episode 2 : Stormborn
Game of Thrones Episode 3 : The Queen’s Justice
Game of Thrones Episode 4 : The Spoils of War
Game of Thrones Episode 5 : Episode 5
Game of Thrones Episode 6 : Episode 6
Game of Thrones Episode 7 : Episode 7
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Feb 23, 2016
I think Episode 8 will be my favourite episode of television of all time - or at least the last 20 minutes- it was beyond amazing and scary as hell. Episode 10 was sooo up and down it left me nauseous. 80% of the episode I was like "WTF is going on here? seriously???" but the other 20% - Arya and Jon Snow - left me screaming at the tv.
I hope they start of season 6 with closure to all of the cliffhangers and Jon Snow better be revived.
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Sep 12, 2015
When Theon tossed Myranda over the rail it seemed like a bit of a shout out to Return of the Jedi when Darth Vadar returns to the light side of the Force and throws the Emperor down the air shaft. Only here, it was Myranda's talk about genital mutilation that made him recall who he once was.

I did not understand how Cersei got so much blood on her. Did the nuns beat the shit out of her after they cut her hair? As soon as she's shown with her new hairdo, we see that she's got some blood here and there. And then it seems as though there is a lot more blood on her the further into the walk of shame she gets. I get that her feet were getting bloody from the barefoot walk, but why everywhere else? Weren't the nuns and the sparrow guys keeping people from actually hitting her?

Are we meant to believe that Jorah has plans for killing Daario while their on their little search for Dany? I thought I saw him give a little look toward Daario after they talked about just the two of them going on the trip together. We know that he's crazy in love with Dany but is has been stuck being Ser Friendzone while Daario gets to bang her and everyone pretty much knows that their an item. Is Jorah gonna come back alone and say, " Damn, Daario got killed by one of the Sons of the Harpy, but that's okay because I can do his job anyway,"?

Lastly, I think its obvious that Trystane is now the Lannister's hostage and they're going to tell everyone in Dorne to give up Ellaria and the cheesy Sand Snakes if they want their prince back alive.
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Aug 16, 2015
Yeah, Jon probably isn't dead. He IS a warg which is established in the books but is barely touched upon in the show (honestly, you could sneeze and miss the reference), so if it happens, it will have had close to zero foreshadowing.
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Sep 12, 2015
Where is the reference to Jon being a worg? I never caught that.
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Jul 22, 2015
Jon Snow isn't dead and the biggest proof of this is Kit Harrington hasn't cut his hair.

The gaps in plot really bugged me this season but especially when it came to Lancel's confession to the High Sparrow. Wouldn't part of his confession have been that he and Cersei killed the king? Basically since he and Cersei confessed then their punishment for regicide is a walk of shame and they called it good? Yet homosexuals are mutilated and murdered with no opportunity for absolution? So basically the Faith is Catholic. The upside to this is if Tyrion comes back all he has to do is "confess" to killing Joffrey and make the sh!tty (literally) walk back to the castle. Although something tells me the peasants would throw flowers and shake his hand.
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Jun 21, 2015
All I can say is... Not Theon... Ric!
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Jul 09, 2015
REEK!
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Jun 20, 2015

There are a number of problems regarding the season 5 finale.

Number one Sansa Stark.

What is the point of dragging this poor girl through hell for five seasons just to have her jump off a high wall. This plotline makes absolutely no sense, I thought she would have escaped and gone looking for her one remaining brother.


Number two Stannis.

A very sloppy storyline in the end. He made so much fuss about taking back Winterfell. Its as if the script writers ran out of ideas and decided just to get rid of him because they couldn’t do anything else with his character. I thought the sacrifice of his daughter in the previous episode was more controversial than Sansa’s rape scene.


Third up, Mother of Dragons.

Again the script writers seemed to run out of steam. She seemed stuck in that city unable to continue on her goal to recapture the Iron Throne. Now she finds herself in uncharted lands surrounded by Rohan style horsemen. Who knowns where this storyline is going?


Number four on the list is Jamie Lannister and Bronn.

These guys are starting to look like some sort of comic relief double act. They need more challenging storylines, running off to rescue a princess just to have her die on the voyage home, WTF to that.



Number five. Tyrion Lannister.

Probably the most popular character in the series. There may be a glimmer of hope for this little fellow. With his trusty side kick, the sneaky bald guy, the possibilities are endless. Try not to make a mess of things with this character. I have often said if they kill off Tyrion, they kill the show.


Number six Cersie Lannister.

I did like her walk of shame, it was a very good scene and not just because she was naked. She has been very manipulative throughout the entire show, good to see her getting her just desserts. But her role in the series in now in question. Where exactly can her character go now?


Number Seven Arya Stark.

What started out as a thrilling storyline about revenge has turned into something of a mystery for our young heroine. Arya has always been able to hold her own against the meanest of bad dudes. However in the final episode we see her character left blind and helpless. Arya has a lot of fans and to see her as a helpless blind girl will annoy most of them.


And finally John Snow.

If I could afford a new television I would have put my foot though mine. The most pointless death of the entire five seasons. John Snow was one of the few characters that went from strength to strength. The ice zombie attack the other week was awesome. In my opinion the knights watch storyline is dead. Sam has gone to Minas Tirith to read books and taken his wildling sweetheart along for the ride. All that’s left at Castle Black are bit characters, including that little shit who put the final knife into John Snow, may his character die a slow death.



There have been many great shows over the years which have gone from strength to strength and Game of thrones is certainly one of them. However this show is in danger of faltering. I think season six with be a decisive moment for the producers. Either kill off more popular characters and reduce the show to a critics heaven or give the remaining characters something to fight for, and perhaps create new characters that people will love to hate. Either way the scrip writers have got their work cut out for them. Naked Women and blood thirsty battle scenes cannot keep the show alive.



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Aug 16, 2015
Re: Cersei, if the show follows the books here (and it looks like it might) Cersei will (SPOILER WARNING!) name zombie-Gregor as her champion in a trial by combat.
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Jun 20, 2015
I don't think Stannis is dead. This show hasn't really been ambiguous about death scenes. If a character dies, you pretty much see the arrow/sword/spear/other method end their life. Brienne also might need him to depose the Boltons (if she doesn't spare Stannis, she's done nothing all season except follow Sansa around and fail to keep her safe).
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Jun 20, 2015
Sansa is not the ultimate goal of the story, so it wouldn't make any sense for Brienne to put her rescue above a vow to Renly, her duty to Margaery or Jaime himself.

Catelyn herself was pretty clear that, when the times comes, she would not hold Brienne back from Stannis. That much we know since season 2.
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Aug 16, 2015
Plus, TV-Stannis is now irredeemable, having immolated his own daughter alive (a sin Book-Stannis has not committed).
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Jun 20, 2015
Well Stannis got fucked....karmically! how come they didn't show his death?
Theon/Reek pushing Myranda off the castle wall to her death was awesome!
glad Arya got her vengeance on that bastard Meryn!
Damn!!!! what kind of sorcery is happening at The House of Black and White? how was Arya's face on that corpse?
"You want a good girl but you need the bad pussy." Tyene is such a tease
and sneaky Ellaria!
"He's the toughest man with no balls I've ever met." haha
It was fun watching Tyrion and Jorah arguing and Varys finally shows up
Damn!! that was a lot of Dothraki!! I'm gonna assume they recognized her
I kinda felt bad for Cersei and wished someone would've shut that giant nun up!
Noooo not Jon Snow!!!!! where is Ghost when you need him? wish the GoT universe had their own lazarus pit!
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Jun 20, 2015
When the young bloke came to ask John Snow to follow him, I know it was a trap: couldn't be otherwise. But I still can't believe JS is dead. This character is like Daryl in TWD: he is a "Do not touch that character, you stupid producer". GoT just lost credibility with Shireen's death and JS's death.
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Jun 20, 2015
To be completely fair, TWD's Daryl was a survivor longe before the zombies became the predators, so it's a matter of logical rather than fanatism.

It just wouldn't make sense for an individual enough to hunt for his own food to die when priests and soccer moms survive.
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Jun 19, 2015
I gave up somewhere in the middle of episode 2. Not even getting it free makes this dog hunt for me any more.
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Jun 19, 2015
I couldn't get to watching the episode until today so needless to say I knew what was coming...really all 3 people who didn't bother to ask if I watched the episode before asking what I thought of Jon's death? Given that, I couldn't enjoy the episode at all because I just kept thinking "when are we getting to Jon?" I'm just so dissapointed in the whole show, this episode seemed like a let down after Hardhome and A Dance With Dragons.
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Jun 19, 2015
In hindsight, the many faces should've been a hint Jaqen wasn't always Jaqen, but I was too upset by his death to do anything other than compete with Arya over who yelled "Don't die!!!" the most.
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Jun 18, 2015
One more thought: how many faces are stored in the House of Black and White? Hundreds, thousands?

So, I ask, how many times in the 50 episodes could this trick have been used on us, the audience, and we did not know we were being punked? Hmmm...something to ponder as you re-watch old episodes

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Jun 18, 2015
Stannis is dead. The cut away from his execution was not a cliff-hanger (but good job to make it look like one) but rather a simple seque to show Ramsey killing some helpless guy.

Stannis' made the ultimate sacrifice of his oh-so-darling daughter because he believed in the magic of the Lord of Light (transmitted by the Red Witch), and because he believed he was the rightful King of the Andals. But his horrible decision -- and he knew it was horrible -- was justified in his mind to save all of the people against the advancing horde of undead.

Looked at that way, he was making a great sacrifice for others.

But he was wrong. He was wrong because he was never King. He was simply Robert's brother, the lord of Dragonstone, the prize given to him by the King after Robert seized the throne from the Targarens. Robert WAS king, and his bastard son Gendry proved it when the Red Witch took his blood via leaches and predicted the deaths of Joffrey and Robb. The same prediction was made for Lord Greyjoy, so watch for confirmation of Gendry's king's blood when Greyjoy goes down next season.

So Stannis was delusional, and his delusion doomed him, his wife, daughter, army and would have cost the Red Witch her life, except she realized that he was not in the favor of the Lord of Light, and she split.

Meanwhile, Roose Bolton in Episode 9 was content to stay within the walls of Winterfell and couldn't leave anyway: "The snow is too deep for calvary."

Well, the Lord of Light is NOT delusional, and did not like his name being evoked with a false sacrifice of a false princess. So he melted the snow, allowing Bolton to get his calvary out and slaughter the pretender to the throne.

Yes, Jon has Kings Blood also -- Targareyen blood. So I smell resurrection...of a real King...
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Aug 16, 2015
I think they also cut away because Stannis asked for his death and knew he was deserving of it, so it was a kind of dignified way of killing him off, I'd guess.
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Jun 19, 2015
Stannis made the same mistake the Night's Watch did regarding the wildlings: Shireen was also part of the Realms of men, she needed his protection too.

And Melisandre made the mistake to think half of the tropes would stay once the weather was good enough to leave: the only reason they stuck with Stannis this long was because they had nowhere else to go.

The man burned his own daughter: what chance a foot soldier had once/if another "sacrifice" had to be made?
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Jun 18, 2015
When Brienne yelled out it seemed to me that someone had stabbed her and saved Stannis. How awesome would it be if it was the Hound?! If Stannis did die, he got what he deserved, and how great it would have been to actually see it! If not, his return to Castle black to come face to face with the fire devil will be a.w.k.w.a.r.d!
I would love to see Sansa live if only so that she could have one season of the strong woman we saw for 10 seconds at the end of season four! Otherwise, let Littlefinger somehow take Winterfell and give Ramsey a bit of his own medicine.
I was not surprised by Myrcella dying, and while I did not know her, I really liked her, she was blossoming into a good woman in spite of her mother! I hope the sand snakes get what is coming to them, all of them, and then we leave there for good!
Cersei's walk of shame was only a little worse than going to work the next day wearing the same clothes you had on the day before. :) But you are right, it was way too long! And as you pointed out, it seemed only the very old man had a.uh, reaction to it, while the two young freaks that were naked were quite um, not reacting. Also I am glad that you said there was a body double. While I know that she has an incredible body, the one we saw had not had even one child, let alone 5! If you are old enough to have a child that would be in their twenties, you need some spandex and lifting to get a body like that! I was a nurse when young and was often determined to keep my young figure, sadly, gravity lets no one survive. I would have good breasts if I could walk with my arms on my head though! :) Instead of making that so long, why not more Varys?? It was so great to see him and Tyrian together again! That alone makes for anticipation for season six!

I thought that Drogon was hurt, not just tired, and Dany was being a royal bitch to him! He saved her life, let him rest and heal for a moment, after all, he looked like a pin cushion for awhile. Man that woman has turned back into the selfish little entitled bitch she was in the beginning!
And last but not least. How sad to see John Snow die by little Olly's hand. Those Crow bastards better not kill SNOW!! That would be unforgivable!!
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Jun 17, 2015

Stannis is alive. That's one of the oldest fake out tricks in the TV and film book. Cuts away just before impact and we hear a thud. Then when we next see it, surprise! He didn't die after all, she hit the tree instead and will spare him.

Yet you seem to think he's dead and don't recognize this as a cliffhanger just as blatant as Sansa and Theon jumping off the wall. Sometimes I really wonder how you got this job.
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Jun 18, 2015
I'm convinced Brienne just killed him in the name of her dead King just as I'm convinced Jaime is bringing his dead daughter home in the name of Cersei.
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Jun 19, 2015
Then why not show it? If she really did kill him, the cliffhanger is pointless.
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Jun 17, 2015
It's hard for me to mourn Jon just yet, given all the theories out there. But with GRRM you can never know for sure... In any case, the Lord Commander certainly didn't take any preemptive measures in an environment where many people didn't have his back. It was asking for an "accident" to happen.

Tyene's line was a great summary of everything that was wrong with the portrayal of Dorne in the series, as well as various weaknesses in the season as a whole. Even the dialogue had to suffer in a show which generally praises itself on its good quality.

Watching how an entire army dissolved around Stannis and how easily Boltons came out victorious made me question whether Weiss & Benioff have even the slightest inkling about warfare. I would go with a resonating no, and expect Mr. Martin to handle this in a much more reasonable way. If nothing else, Stannis was supposed to be a decent strategist and commander..

Sansa' stay at Winterfell eventually proved to be wasteful beyond all doubt. Figures. Chances are they could've had the opportunity to tell more interesting stories for her over in The Vale, while allowing the character to grow. That minus the extra abuse that Ramsay once again got away with (for now at least). It's quite a feat to screw up a plot point in this way.

It does feel like everyone - the team behind the show included - needs GRRM to get book 6 out in its entirety. And before long, since I expect that the time for writing screenplays and shooting is imminent. Otherwise I'm greatly concerned about season 6, since D&D showed that veering off the beaten track so much is a task they are simply not up to. They could always do better, I suppose, but it's a difficult thing to expect when the creators (supposedly) don't take any criticism to heart.
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Jun 18, 2015
Were the horse riding soldiers in Bolton's army the very sellswords that left in the night with all of the horses? I imagine they got food, warmth, and cash for their loyalty to the Boltons. It has been emphasized in the entire series that they fight for who pays them, there is no loyalty.
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Jun 21, 2015
Who could tell, the show definitely didn't seem to give us any indication that the sellswords who had abandoned Stannis might've instead turned towards Boltons.

I still find it rather laughable how apparently Stannis would be so naive as not to have anyone in his regular army watching over these mercenaries (especially as one group of them had already left before), or how they were able to get away with all the horses. Or how they would do so just when the snow had started melting (which could be seen as favor from the Red God given the sacrifice preceding it), etc.
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Jun 17, 2015
I think because Stannis had lost everything he was kinda like fuck it, let's die trying then.
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Jun 21, 2015
I have no doubt that's what the creators were going for: a man who has nothing left, who has been effectively undone. But the way they framed it, how the show arrived at this conclusion: I found this so poorly crafted that it didn't resonate with me in the slightest. The downfall of Stannis wasn't handled believeably enough.
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Jun 18, 2015
I keep thinking about how he didn't want to become a page in someone else's history book.

...and he just did.
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Jun 17, 2015
So when beating little girls to get off, it's the one girl that doesn't cry out that holds your interest? I would of thought the opposite but whatever. If they all cried out would he go for the one that cried the least or most? I'll never understand some psychos.

Seemed every time Stannis turned around the last person he was talking to was on a horse to somewhere else.

So is that "literally" s&*t-shaming? I was waiting for the sparrow club wielding guys to peel off down alleyways and leave Cersei to the mob but to their credit they walked her all the way home clubbing peasants and ringing a bell. You'd think one moat bridge guard would of lent her a cape or stabbed a cabbage throwing peasant or something, they just stood there like she was coming back from a jog or a shopping trip.

Is Sam going to get to the iron throne? That annoyingly well meaning dude survives everything.

So if you were Bronn, even though Jamie's daughter died, would you be tempted to take your next spring break down in Dorn?
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Jun 18, 2015
I am hoping that he got hold of some of that antidote for his own safety, and used it when he saw what was happening. And Oberyn's brother does not believe in third chances, and it sounded like he meant that beyond a doubt!
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Jun 18, 2015
Uuummmm.... OK!
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Jun 17, 2015
HOLY BLOODY F*^%ING CHRIST........ GO ARYA GO YOU KILL THAT CHILD BEATING BASTARD STAB HIM AGAIN. WHY JON SNOW WHYYYYYYYYY....... Ok now stands is not dead as we didn't see a body if there's no body then there's no death. CARMAS A BITCH STANNIS you shouldn't have killed your daughter. I hope JON snow isn't dead dead here's hoping he comes back
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Jun 17, 2015
Tim, I think you conveyed every feeling and emotion I had regarding the episode. Outstanding review!
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Jun 17, 2015
Nice review , it's been an interesting season lots of ups and downs! Some plots were crap-but im thankful to HBO as the wait for the books suck!!!!!!!!!!! Great episode I thought it was very powerful and sad to see Stannis walking/leading first in line to an obvious defeat! He lost , sacrificed it all for NOTHING!?! Cersie will have her vengeance, she better be smart about it. Vary's and Tyrion will crush the Harpies!!! Jon I too think he will be back. All said it was one of the better episodes of the entire season! I am certain some of those who we think are dead definitely aren't .
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Jun 16, 2015
Cersei scene left a sour taste I was kinda of wishing for her torment to go on a bit more but NOOOOOO let her out so she can do more damage. As for Jon Snow anyone else get that caesar deja vu thing going on. And as for that so-called witch don't even get me started. I had all my hopes on Arya getting into the whole revenge thing now she's blind (or is she) kinda ruins it for me because she was a little scrapper from the get go. Oh well roll on season 6.
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Jun 16, 2015
- I think Stannis (dead or not) got what he deserved after last week, but it did feel really rushed. I wonder about Melisandre. Was she lying the whole time? Were her visions wrong? Was it an "If this then that" kind of thing?
- 9.8 meters per second per second is not a speed.
- Yeah, that Theon and Sansa jump was silly.
- JESUS CHRIST, ARYA!
- So, what *was* happening in that facement scene???
- I went "Oh fuck" at the kiss. Then I forgot all about it and went awww. Then she started bleeding and I remembered. Oh fuck.
- That Cersei walk just dragged on... and on...
- Dany's scene was stupid.
- This whole episode just felt like a series of cliffhangers. Not a big fan.
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Jun 16, 2015
After reading several reviews and probably some spoilers (I am not sure if there are any big spoilers at this moment since the show seems to have caught up with the books), it feels like the writers and Martin suddenly realized that with so many complex story lines and plots they have multiple paths they can take from here. I would not be surprised if the books and the show follow entirely different paths from here on out.

In a way Gorge RR Martin gets to tell 2 different stories with the same characters. Thats a awesome to say the least.
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Jun 16, 2015
-Poor jon snow!! I want the white walkers to kill everyone of the night's watch specially olly you damn kid!!
-Cersei's walk of shame was awful and I agree it was too long!
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Jun 17, 2015
That's King Olly , now bend the knee
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Jun 18, 2015
I think is dead man walking Ollye: there are less than 50 men on the Wall already.

The shield that guards the realms of men is officially useless.
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Jun 16, 2015
And about that TV Show will go ahead of Books and sorta have its own ending. Kinda shows they didn't really stretch/fit the story for 10 hour seasons well from the start. I'm wondering how much story they passed and why they thought it wasn't "Juicy" to adapt to TV screen. Why did they scrap Lady Stoneheart as well as Beric Dondarrion ? Did the actress not agree with the terms ? Could very well cast someone similar and solve it with make up. I didn't even read the books and I feel so much left out. (fan reactions and overal story summaries I read) Probably due to 10 hour limit (money problems)

Feels like they dropped the ball after Season 3, no matter what.
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Jun 16, 2015
That walk of shame was utterly AWFUL. If Lena Heady didn't opt for the nude scenes, she could've wore prosthetics, or just shorten it to 30 seconds and not show her body, just showing above bust, or even belly, she's been nude before. That scene DID NOT suit Game of Thrones production values at all.

They should've added extra time to Jon and Sam conversation. Or more build up to the last scene.

Stupid Cersei scene left a sour taste, reduced my curiosity for what happens to Jon in Season 6.
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Jun 17, 2015
Lena Heady is pregnant in real life, so probably opted out of the scene for that reason.

I disagree about the length of the scene since with every step, you could see the look in her eyes;

"YOU'RE ALL DEAD, WHEN I GET BACK"!
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Jun 17, 2015
All the more reason not to go that long. Could even be better with a close up head shot for the entire walk, nonstop noncut. I wouldnt argue why they wouldnt show her body then. That Cgi face could be artfully avoided. S5 as a whole was weak except Jon Snow. Didnt get the regular GoT vibe.
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Jun 16, 2015
The show did do something kind of interesting in this finale it looks like some of the characters are turning back to plot lines I assumed that they skipped. Arya going blind I believe happened in A Feast for Crows Sam's trip to Oldtown started in a Feast for Crows. Potential book spoilers ahead … In the book Dany had an army for her to fight surrounding Mereen and that army has not appeared yet. A casting call went out for Season 6 and while they didn't name anyone from the book's Pyke storyline it seems like some of those casting calls were for those characters. And I was under the impression that they weren't going to do the Pyke storyline in the show. I don't know how much forward progress next season will actually make into a Winds of Winter. Just from looking at where they ended I think if Martin does not finish his book first they may try to drag out things that they have ignored so far from books 3, 4 and 5. HBO certainly wouldn't mind if they dragged out the series.
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Jun 16, 2015
At least if you're a Jon fan, is he really death will not be known till the next book comes out. And i read the interview were Kip and the writers said he was dead but lies are part of the business though I'm leaning towards him being dead in the tv show, not so sure about the books though if he is still alive in the books then that seems that it would mean the tv show would have to make up a lot of the North story from here on out. Maybe it was an intended spoiler of the book. What I was most shocked about was that they included Arya going blind. That was one plot I figured they would abandon, though putting it at the very end makes sense, allows the actor more time to practice acting as a blind person so she hop into the character at the start of next season. Big G better come out with his new book asap because they tv show is now going to pass almost all of the plots he's written, which means either the show will be writing their own version of an Ice and Fire with some guidlines or it will be a ten part spoiler of the next book, as far as the overall plot goes since so much has already been changed but the overall plot remains the same up till now.
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Jun 17, 2015
It is one thing to say nothing, or say "I do not know yet, I am in the dark myself, I can't talk about it!" but to lie to your fans is a stupid move for any show/actor.
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Jun 16, 2015
I actually knew that Jon Snow was, well that that was going to happen to Jon Snow. I hadn't read the books, but knew they were out and wanted to know what happened (the opposite of now, when I want to read the 6th book first and then watch the show). So I was not surprised about that, because as everyone I believed that he was coming back. I was shocked when I read that the actor said he is not returning :( :( :(
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Jun 16, 2015
I think he has only said he won't be returning in season 6.
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Jun 18, 2015
Jaqen was away for season 3 and 4.

And he came back like a pro!
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Jun 16, 2015
I actually knew that Jon Snow was, well that that was going to happen to Jon Snow. I hadn't read the books, but knew they were out and wanted to know what happened (the opposite of now, when I want to read the 6th book first and then watch the show). So I was not surprised about that, because as everyone I believed that he was coming back. I was shocked when I read that the actor said he is not returning :( :( :(
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Jun 16, 2015
I'm so upset. I don't think I was paying much attention to the scene, and BUHBAMM, Jon gets stabbed. O_o I screamed NOOO really loud, shocking myself! It was just reaction... Mouth open, eyes round, look of shock on my face, it's a good thing no one was around. I'm glad i watched this episode alone. I am Not happy with Jon Snow being killed off. I truly hope that Melisandre brings him back. He hasn't told them all about his sword & what it can do. He doesn't know his sister is at Winterfeld, he doesn't even know about his mom and Rob :( Give us/him more time for goodness sake!
I get that this show (like Walking Dead) tends to kill off anyone. I figured Jon Snow would die, BUT NOT LIKE THIS!
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Jun 16, 2015
785 comments. I got nothing more to add except I enjoyed everything. It was an awesome season. I accept all the deaths, life goes on. GOT continues.
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Jun 16, 2015
I totally agree.
This season has its faults like Tim's reviews pointed out, but this is BY FAR MY FAVORITE SEASON.

This season revealed where GoT is going with all this : different kind of zombies, dragons can't be tamed and little girls growing up to become vengeful living, breathing machines.

We are on the verge of some great shift here where we get a glimpse of the endgame and we are still kept in the dark...like every good story.

GoT continues. Long live GoT.

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Jun 17, 2015
Exactly GOT will survive any character death. It's been happening since season one.
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Jun 16, 2015
ironic that you would ask for spoiler not to be posted when the original picture for this article was a big spoiler. I logged onto tv.com yesterday morning to check an episode guide and was quit dissipointed when i saw a picture of cersie with her hair cut and in rags as the pic for this review, like i know that didn't spoil everything but still wtf!!!
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Jun 16, 2015
That's more w(h)ine than Cersei drinks.
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Jun 17, 2015
tkm420 has a valid point! Tv.com writers have a bad habit of putting spoilers out in the open. I'm talking about the title or the picture the they choose for their reviews, those two are hard to avoid especially if you are just trying to check tv listings. Luckily I've found sidereel and it offers 3 day tv schedule listings which allows me to avoid spoilers that are posted on here.
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Jun 17, 2015
Still, Olivia Pope would call that too much w(h)ine.
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Jun 16, 2015
zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor ("a dragon is not a slave").
People keep forgetting that. Even Dany.
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Jun 16, 2015
Where's your logic? they didn't show you Stannis' death, since they want to keep you in the dark about it. Myranda did die.
This programming to find hatered against Women everyewheer is becoming tired.
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Jun 16, 2015
I think there is a reason that we had this "cliffhanger episode to rule all cliffhanger episodes", and that is that GRRM is at the moment slightly lagging behind the show. A lot of stuff in the show hasn't happened in the books yet, and this is especially true for the life or death cliffhangers.

So for one, maybe GRRM hasn't yet decided on the characters' ultimate faith, and also maybe there is an agreement not to spoiler anything for those who prefer the books.
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Jun 17, 2015
"Slightly lagging behind the show" is the understatement of all time.

It's unlikely the next book will be out before the next TV series is all but over and the last book is 6 or 7 years away, given his present writing speed, so it's likely the show will have ended before then.

Therefore, unless he has given the writers a good idea of his thought process, the TV series will inevitably differ greatly from the books.
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Jun 17, 2015
Bla, bla, bla before you make such assumptions check your facts. Last book is 4 years old and GRRM has set appointments and stuff aside to finish the book before next season starts.
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Jun 17, 2015
His timescale between books is now running at nearly 5 years, so while it's possible he might release "Winds of Winter" just before the next TV series starts, he will absolutely need to give the TV writers some indication of how the book will progress, or my premise will still hold true.

That is, that the TV series and book will differ markedly.

The TV series will be in production LONG before "Winds of Winter" is likely to be released. Earliest online speculation I can find is April 2016, certainly NOT this year.

ALso, there is no way, unless he has fooled us all, that the final book will be remotely ready for series 7 of the TV show, that should screen in 2017.
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Jun 16, 2015
With Rhaegal and Viserion left in the dungeon , their mother far away surrounded by the Dothraki, noone seems to remember the enslaved dragons now.

I will not adventure into spoilerland, but there's a nice arc in the story that was almost purposely ignored by the writers this season
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Jun 17, 2015
The dragons in the dungeons got fed with humans. So they "aren't forgotten". Tyrion loves dragons and dreams to ride one :D Nice picture of Tyrion on a Dragon frying Cersei and her Golden Knight of the Kingsguard :D (and is unlike to happen, I know :D )
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Jun 16, 2015
4 previous seasons have taught me, that nothing good can ever happen to any character, so I've just come to constantly expect the worst, which in turn desensitized me to the faith of all characters. When I watched this episode, and didn't even flinch I realized, that I just don't feel any form of attachment to any of the characters anymore, all of them could die in the next season for all I care. Hell, the single thing that made me keep watching this mess was winter, the pace of which is glacial.

This show suffers from some seriously bad writing (I repeat, this show). There are just no turn of events here, only a never ending cycle of misery and death in different contexts on which any catharsis is completely lost, which eventually makes the show dull and boring.

No sense in further elaborating the same thought in differently phrased sentences, Game of Thrones lost me as a viewer. I will watch the whitewalker episodes after the show has concluded, because at this point, the only thing I want to see is how preferably every character - I have been conditioned like Pavlov's dog not care about - is being killed off.
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Jun 16, 2015
"There are just no turn of events here, only a never ending cycle of misery and death in different contexts"

I know... it's so much like real life, without the denial.
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Jun 16, 2015
I think (and hope) that Melisandre will reanimate Jon Snow, bringing him back with the help of her god.
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Jun 16, 2015
When Ned Stark was executed, I was in shock. When Robb, his bride, his mother, his direwolf and all the Stark men were massacred, I was devastated.

Now Jon is murdered in a violent way. I only feel sad. I did not expect this. :-(

I am glad Sam, Gilly and little Sam left. Probably just in time. But Sam will be devastated when he hears about Jon's death.

Still I think it was a dumb move of the Men of the Watch. Only few are left and there are now many Wildlings, who put their trust in Jon. And what about Ghost?

I am soooo glad Theon threw Miranda off the balcony. Horrible bitch.

I agree with other people. Cersei's walk of Atonement was way too long. I hope this High Sparrow storyline end soon in the next season. I am fed up with it. I hope Margaery and her brother survive.

I am glad Varys is back. But how was it possible for him to enter Meereen? With the hostile situation?

Too many cliffhangers. :-(

Sansa/Theon
Arya
Dany and many many Dothraki. Great to see them again!
Stannis/Brienne

Why only 10 episodes and then having to wait for almost a year. :-(


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Jun 16, 2015
He's not dead. He can't be, and there are a million reasons why. It goes against Martin's style for him to be dead.
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Jun 16, 2015
Ok, so WTF did I just watch?
Seriously messed up episode and as far as finales go - very frustrating - yeah let's kill everyone, but change to another scene at the crucial moment, so you don't 100% know for sure; then WHAM make you wait 10 months for the next season - BOLLOCKS I say...

So happy that Tyrion & Varys back together - they are seriously the only 2 humans in the ENTIRE world that seem to have a brain between them. They are both VERY smart and level headed. Looking forward to seeing this - but seriously WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY is Dany back with the Dothraki?
Can't we just get some damn fire-breathing dragons to Westeros already???
Of course not - we have to drag out the crap in Meereen for another season. SIGH

Stannis got everything he deserved - only want Melisandre not to get it right now, as she is the only one even likely to be able to resurrect Jon - btw where was she and Davos, when he was getting killed? Where was GHOST?? GoT writers, you seriously suck.

Poor Davos - you could see it in his eyes, the defeat when she looked at him. He really cared for that kid and at least he won't have to choose to leave - Stannis is gone.

I believe that Jon will end up being resurrected and turn out to be the dude Melisandre thought Stannis was. Forget the name - sounds like Azor??

Arya - wow - that was intense and freaky. Definitely interesting storyline there.

Poor Sansa - missed Brienne again, nearly gets it from Myranda and then trusts theon and they jump off a HIGH wall - really? really?? I hope that was a VERY deep snow bank
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Jun 17, 2015
Davos, Jon Snow, Tyrion are the only decent persons in this world :D Varys doesn't fit to these in my opinion. He is smart but more like the Littlefinger-type. Acting from the shadows. The other do what is right, no matter the consequences.
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Jun 17, 2015
Davos was also sent to Castle Black, wasn't he? At first we thought it was just because of Stannis wanting to kill his daughter. He has left before Melissandre though, so he will arrive before her.It can't be that it is this way in the books. Shereen has not died there yet. Could there be another reason that they chose to send him back at this point? A reason regarding a dead Lord Commander of the Night's Watch?
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Jun 17, 2015
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Davos_Seaworth

"Once Lord Manderly has sent a false report to the Iron Throne and gotten his son and heir, Ser Wylis Manderly, back, he has Robett Glover free Davos and bring him to the New Castle. He tells Davos that he will swear his allegiance to Stannis if Davos retrieves Rickon Stark from Skagos. Manderly has discovered the boy is alive thanks to the testimony of Wex Pyke, but needs a smuggler to retrieve him from the dangerous isle". Its the last event in the books up to date.
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Jun 17, 2015
In the books he is recruiting an army at Lord Manderly who pretends to side with the Lannisters to get his sons back. He kills and burns another person and says it was Davos, but secretly helps Davos. Rickon Starkk is on his way there, too.
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Jun 17, 2015
Yes, I have read that too. But Lord Manderly does not exist in the show.
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Jun 16, 2015
Ghost did not show up in the books either, she was locked up or something. So the show just stayed in line with the books, with the only difference that there was no explanation about it.
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Jun 16, 2015
"btw where was she and Davos, when he (Jon) was getting killed? Where was GHOST??"

I don't what the other two were doing, but Ghost was very badly underused throughout the show. I'm not sure whether it was a fail on the writers' part or the production decided that the expenses for CGI were too high for the direwoilf to be featured in every episode. Whichever it was, it was a bad choice. They decided to have Ghost help Sam but otherwise disappear him? Again, major fail.
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Jun 16, 2015
CGI expenses couldn't have been too high -- there was a dragon in almost every episode. Besides, the direwolves aren't even that much CGI. They're digitally enlarged dogs
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Jun 16, 2015
What can I say? If this is so, then it's an even bigger failure on the production's part.
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Jun 16, 2015
There would have been massive satisfaction on the part of viewers seeing Stannis' head roll in the dust, so why not show it?

GoT has never been shy about heads bouncing around the floor in the past.

I'm increasingly of the belief that he somehow diverts the sword strike and escapes.

I just hope he doesn't kill Brienne in the process.
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Jun 16, 2015
I'd rather expect for Brienne to have hit the tree because at the last moment she realized that she is not a killer.
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Jun 16, 2015
Things I'm looking forward to in the next season:

- How Tyrion and Varys will rock. Finally (hopefully) we will see them again doing what they do best.

- The flight of Sansa and Theon. No more forced inaction, and great character development for both of them.

- More of the White Walkers. Yes, please.

- Cersei's revenge. Nothing else can be expected. And it will be terrible.

- Everything with Davos Seaworth

- Everything with Samwell Tarly

Things I'm not looking forward to:

- Jaime's homecoming. It's going to be so depressing. Cersei will freak out, Jaime will be broken, everything's in shambles.

- Daenerys. Once one of my favourite characters, her self-righteousness and incompetence really put me off. And unlike with Sansa, I see no hint for a change with her.

- The whole Bran Stark/Children of the Forest storyline. For one, i never liked it that much anyway, and also, I'm afraid we will get a deus ex machina solution for the White Walker threat out of it. What else would be the point?

-

-


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Jun 16, 2015
Everyone is kind of in a shock over Jon's death, but when that clears up you will think about Cersei's humiliation and I bet next season she is going to wreak havoc on Kings Landing. I feel sorry for the high priest already.
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Jun 16, 2015
"The flight of Sansa and Theon." So I guess I'm in the minority thinking that they fell to their death, preferring that to falling in the Bastard's hands again?

"Cersei's revenge". At this point, I really want that nun to get it. I will be cheering Cercei on!

"Jaime's homecoming." Do you see him going back to King's Landing right away? Wouldn't he turn back to Dorne (literally 5' away), even if for no other reason but to drop Prince Whatever off and try to get a bit of revenge? In my mind, it would make absolutely no sense if they sailed on like nothing happened.
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Sep 12, 2015
Jamie and them won't turn right back around. Price Trystane's gonna be their hostage now. They'll tell the Dorne king to give them Ellaria and the Sand Snakes for their prince. I bet that's how it will go.
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Jun 16, 2015
I think if they fell to their death we would have heard two resounding SPLATs. :)

Yes, the nun has it coming alright.

But what can he do when he turns around? He will know who did it, but how to prove it? But maybe he doesn't even have to.
I really hope that happens, and it would make much more sense for both his character and the story, you're right.
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Jun 16, 2015
I'm kind of afraid Jaime might actually start a war with Dorne: Trystane's on that boat too, isn't he? How about immediate revenge on the Martells?
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Jun 16, 2015
I'm quite happy for Sansa (if not Theon) to live a bit longer. As weird as it sounds, hers is the story I'm most invested in at this point. I find her development as a person fascinating. From a starry-eyed romantic to, hopefully, a real player in the Game.

As for Jaime, I can't really predict anything (these bad people - GRRM included - exist only to laugh at us and destroy our hopes and dreams) but it would seem reasonable to me that, since the Kiss of Death happened in plain sight, they'd know where to point fingers. And Prince Doran seems to value the alliance with the Lannisters and the throne. Who knows...
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Jun 16, 2015
I forgot to say that seeing Tyrion and Varys together again was bloody awesome!!!
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Jun 18, 2015
And Varys knows! (which was awesome in itself)
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Jun 16, 2015
I agree that Stannis was killed too quickly. That is if he's really dead. We didn't actually see his head chopped off, did we?
Happy to see Myranda got squished. Horrible bitch.
Arya is so badass! You go girl! But what what the hell happened at the very end of the scene?!
Cersei got what she deserved. It's a shame she didn't really repent. You can see that she'll get her revenge, especially on that nun shouting "shame". She's going to get it good.
As for Jon Snow, noooooooo! I don't want to believe that he's a goner but I also have to prepare myself if he really is dead. Sigh... Why do you keep doing this to us, GRRM, why?!!!
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Jun 16, 2015
I'm so sick of seeing all the people whine and complain about their favorite characters dying and them threatening to watch the show. Get over it sheesh spoilers ahead






I'm used to this kind of thing with Jon Snow dying and I will continue watching because I didn't watch the show for just Jon or Robb or Catelyn or Ned but for the whole story and because the show is that good.

24 did a bang up job shaking its cast off and killing long time favorite characters and when Michelle and Palmer ate it I didn't scream and throw a tantrum swearing I would never watch it again because believe they were two of my favorite characters and they weren't the only casualties of Season 5 Edgar Stiles and Tony would later die as well two more beloved characters (and yes I know Tony came back) but still watching it at the time I was floored but I appreciated it for what it was great story telling and because of those deaths it made Season 5 of 24 in my opinion the strongest season of the show and possibly any show that has aired then and since.

So to all crybabies out there fine leave we're better off without you cause you truly didn't love Game of Thrones like the rest of us do. We're in it for the long haul tears and all.
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Jun 16, 2015
I hate this. I really do. Why are you more of a fan just because you accept everything the series does? One could argue that the people being upset and threatning to leave is even more true fans than you, as they're obviously way more emotionally invested in the series.

To most people, Jon Snow is THE main character and the last hope standing. Sure there are way more awesome characters in the show, but lets be real for a second; we're down to a handful these days.
I don't mind killing of characters generally, as long as it has a purpose. Ned Stark floored me, but I saw the point of his death immediately. Lets assume Stannis is dead; what's the purpose? He just sacrificed his daughter that means she's dead for absolutely nothing as well. Why does Jon Snow have to die? I don't see the point. Even the angry Night's Watch-dudes should know, that this is THE worst time to kill a fellow non-White Walker. I get that they feel betrayed(I read the books, which actually explained the reason), but it doesn't make any sense for me that he should die - how does it contribute to the overall story line?

They might have the perfect explanation coming next season. He might come back as Azor Ahai - which I personally think. But for now, I think it's more than justified to be upset at the series and even threatning with not watching it. Right now, it all seems like killing for the sake of killing. Overall, this season is the worst when it comes to the general story line progression if you ask me.
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Jun 18, 2015
To be fair, Jon was an action hero. Not THE hero but one of the many action heroes in an epic filled with them.

I loved him, and I thought the character had a lot of story left to tell, but I don't see him as the main character any more than Daario, Stannis, Tyrion, Davos, Jaime or Jaqen are.
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Jun 16, 2015
I won't go into the "who's the better fan". All opinions and reactions are personal and therefore respected as long as they're expressed nicely (do you hear dolphin_intern?).

I do, however, disagree with the point you make about all deaths being unnecessary to the overall plot. Stannis, for example, had nowhere else to go plot-wise. He had nothing to contribute as a "player" and his demise (IMO obviously) only came too quickly for him to truly suffer for what he did to his daughter. His further "uselessness" is why I think he's really dead.

As for Jon's death, I'm not going near that. Tempers among viewers and fans are too high to have any meaningful discussion about him. His death might even be a bigger shock that the Red Wedding. The only reason the internet hasn't literally exploded yet is because everyone is expecting him to be resurrected next year.

Myrcella's was a gratuitous death, I think. I'll hold judgment until I see next year how they handle this, but I think that her death was not necessary to advance plots. Anyway, we'll see.
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Jun 18, 2015
I don't like it, but I agree with Ellaria. The Lannisters got Oberyn killed in their land. And now the Lannisters have just payed their debt with the death of one of them in Dorne's land.

And the Sand Snakes did so in such way the people at Dorne won't have to go to war for it.
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Jun 18, 2015
You've touched on a bit of a sore spot for me (in both the show and, to an extent, the book) so my answer might be a little long...

It was Oberyn Martell's choice to fight for Tyrion, defending him against the main Lannister family. It was his attempt to "stick it" to them that drove him to that decision. And as far as I remember, Ellaria saw all that and was against the idea. Yes, the Mountain was, in essence, the Lannisters' champion, but Oberyn wasn't murdered in a dark alley or poisoned; hes died in an official trial by combat. He was a skilled warrior who in the end died because of his own mistake, passion and hatred.

Ellaria comes from a powerful and rich family which rules Dorne. Being Oberyn's wife, I don't expect anything different, but she is also letting passion and hatred rule her actions. It seems that in GoT (as in life most of the times) "players" who are guided by emotion and not calculation do not last long. That's a pity because I like Indira Varma and I hate seeing her character making one bad decision after another.

"the Sand Snakes did so in such way the people at Dorne won't have to go to war for it". What do you mean? Ellaria kissed Myrcella in front of everybody, after attempting to kill her just days before and being admonished by her brother-in-law and ruler for that. It is also a well known fact in Westeros (or at least in the right circles of Westeros) that she is good with poisons. Plot wise this was a dumb move. Can I say this one more time? This was a dumb f**ing move! Having some other unsuspecting person kiss her, while wearing the poison and then immediately dying without being able to "tie" her to the act would have been a much cleverer move. I think this was poorly written.

As for war, it will probably be avoided not because Ellaria, her daughters, Cercei (when she finds out) and maybe even Jaime don't want to have war, but because the Lannisters, at this point can't afford to go to war and lose their last allies in Westeros. Otherwise, the blame can be easily placed at Ellaria's feet.

I feel quite strongly about this matter (you can probably tell...), and I don't say stuff like this often, but the writers really dropped the ball with this. They set up the whole Dorne story line (their idea, not in the books) which didn't really work, just to reach this climax, as it turns out. And this "climax" makes sense only superficially. It doesn't hold under just a little scrutiny, which it should. Again, I can't know how this will be "used" next season, but this could have been done in a much better way.
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Jun 16, 2015
I agree about Stannis and with all his build up this season just to have Brienne kill him seems like a waste of more characterization for him and his possible quest for vengeance against Melisandre. I have read the books all of them and while sucky Jon's death makes sense the Men of the Night's Watch have been engrained with a hatred for wildlings since the dawn of time so when a lord commander made choices that went against everything they've ever known I can see why they would take such drastic measures as stabbing him.
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Jun 16, 2015
One might say that the people who thought Jon Snow to be the hero didn't quite get what GoT is all about. Or didn't want to.
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Jun 18, 2015
That might be right but unless you're gonna elaborate, I don't see why you would write that. According to, what one might say, I don't get what GoT is all about, so enlighten me.

I guess there's no such thing as different interpretations then :)
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Jun 18, 2015
If it weren't for the possibility of different opinions I wouldn't have written, "One might say...". It wasn't irony, if that's what you're thinking.
As to what GoT is all about (and what not), there are numerous strong hints, most of all that both "heroes" and "villains" are repeatedly built up, only to be taken down again, in one way or another.
So what GoT is all about, is the setting, i.e. the life in a world like this at a time like this, and the characters, and how they affect each other.
It's like a game of chess: At the beginning of the game you cannot tell which of the pieces are going to be captured, and who will come out on top in the end, all you know is that it's most likely going to be a massacre.
And just like in chess, several pieces can be sacrificed or exchanged for other pieces, all the while approaching the overall goal. And sometimes pieces get captured without any benefit because mistakes were made. And just like in chess you do not plan right from the get-go to get half your board captured just so that one of your bishops can checkmate the king. And sometimes you can foresee the consequences of your actions, and sometimes you cannot, and then they can be dire.
That is I believe what GoT is all about. It is more about the unpredictability of life, and how the character and the actions of a person shape his fate, and less about the wish-fulfillment of a hero in shining white armour to save the day.
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Jun 18, 2015
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Jun 18, 2015
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Jun 16, 2015
"this episode [...] sure seemed like it was in a hurry to tear through story and sometimes not even finish them so it could rush out of the house". Once in a while I agree with Tim and this is one of those times. This was a harrowing hour with many ordeals, deaths and reversals and still it felt a little forced, as if the writers were ticking off boxes from a "to do" list.

Stannis: While not exactly forced, it was too quick. Stannis & army gone, box ticked.

Inside Winterfel: I enjoyed Myrandas fall to death (yeah... something's wrong with me), it felt deserved. But I'm not as optimistic for Sansa's and Theon's fate. It truly looked as though they decided death was the better option and they plunged to it. I am sorry for Sansa; though not the best used character I was growing more fond of her and I do believe she deserved something better. By the way, the only reliable thing in this show (as demonstrated by the candle that Brienne just missed) is that, given any number of options, the worst is always going to happen. This show is the TV equivalent of Murphy's Law.

Dorne: Myrcella's dead. That was heartbreaking, mostly for Jamie. It also felt a bit gratuitous, in the sense that it's just there to shock us and set up plots for next season. Why actually write a plot when by just killing a couple of unsuspecting persons you can have a season's worth of story to tell? Anyway...

Cercei: It was one of the most powerful scenes in this episode and I would dare say season. It deserved its 6 mins. How else to demonstrate what an ordeal it was for this prideful and pampered woman? By the way, is it me or is Mean Nun a man? Nun's the Man! (I'm gonna be stuck with that all day...)

Meereen: I liked the scene inside the castle and what it might set up for next season, but during Danny's scene's I really sympathized with Drogon (i.e. I wanted to take a nap).

The Wall: No, I'm not going there. Jon Snow is - together with Tyrion probably - the biggest fan favorites. I'm pretty sure other people have commented - and will, in perpetuity - on what this means. How else are we gonna fill these ten long months until the show returns?
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Jun 16, 2015
My thoughts exactly. It feels exactly as things that just needed to be done - I lack an explanation or a purpose for at least half the things in this episode.
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Jun 16, 2015
Did anyone else miss the scene with Pycelle and Kevan getting murdered by Varys? That and Jon's betrayal and my assumption that the question of his fate would be answered were what I was most looking forward to this episode and neither happened. I hate to say it but I was kind of disappointed with this episode as a finale. I assume they'll get ventilated and we'll get the answer we're all waiting for in regards to Jon next season but I think they both should have happened in episode.
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Jun 18, 2015
I feel Varys and Tyrion re-inforce the notion that, if there's any civilization left, it would be re-built from slave cities.

The 7 Realms are already lost and The White Walkers know it.
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Jun 16, 2015
Spoilers much?
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Jun 17, 2015
Ah, I wrote a warning and some other stuff before but deleted it, I didn't mean to delete the spoiler warning, sorry. Although, in terms of spoilers this is nothing, I had pretty much every major plot point spoiled for me so I know how frustrating it can be but this is nothing.
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Jun 16, 2015
BTW, can we just agree that the Mad King wasn't mad at all. The people in KIng's Landing are vile and burning them from time to time should be a legitimate option.

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Jun 18, 2015
I think he got the concept right, the timing not so much (you burn the bodies after they turn, not while they are still human)
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Jun 17, 2015
I can't say I understand much about what happened with the Mad King but considering the victors (Lannisters esp.) are the ones writing that history I tend to take it with a pinch (or rather a big bag) of salt...
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Jun 16, 2015
Hahaha.
I wonder.
However, we have Daenarys' rule in Mereen as a comparison. She is strict and kind of naive at times which hints as to how the Mad King might have been. On the other hand, they didn't have the same childhood.

What I want to have is a clearer picture of what happened under the Mad King's rule (maybe as a prequel?)

Since all that discussion is attached to dragons (one of the sure way to win against the only serious threat to the world of GoT), I get why G.R.R. Martin keeps Dany's storyline and anything else pertaining dragons kind of vague and uninteresting at times.
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Jun 16, 2015
Haha, exactly. My friend and I said the exact same thing during this episode. Mad King was probably the only sane person left.
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