Once Upon a Time "Manhattan" Review: In the Name of the Father

Once Upon a Time S02E14: "Manhattan"


Oh Once Upon a Time, what are you doing to me? Like a fickle, chain-smoking French girlfriend in a black and white movie, you drive me mad with love and frustration. This was obviously an important milestone episode, and it set up a clear-cut and nicely conflicted trajectory for all the major characters, and yet why do I feel we should have landed here, on this excellent episode, in the middle of Season 1? Should it really have taken us all a full two seasons to reveal that Henry’s dad was Mr. Gold’s son—something you commenters and myself have been discussing as a given since about four episodes after the series premiere.

As many strides forward as we made last night (Henry met his dad! Mr. Gold found his wee Bae! Cora got a blowout and a pantsuit!), you just KNOW we’re going to spend the next few weeks finding out, like, why Smee’s hat means so much to him or why Tinkerbell has allergies or whatever. Again, like a fickle French movie girlfriend OUAT gives you one magical night you’ll never forget interspaced with three weeks of sighing in a corner, writing slam poetry about her dad and ashing into a Mountain Dew bottle.

But I’m digressing. Let’s celebrate OUAT at its best and most ridiculous, because it was both last night, starting with the line, “My weaving days are behind us!” when Rumplestiltskin came barging into his own house with an exquisitely calligraphy'd draft notice. LOL, he was like, a weaver for realz before he became magical. Mila, learning that her beloved husband had been called to the front, immediately started worrying that he'd act like a coward on the battlefield. Because Rumple’s dad was a coward? Are cowards still a thing? Certainly in this day and time we’d interpret “coward” differently than someone who, say, didn’t want to bare-knuckle fight a herd of ogres, and our cultural model for masculinity has more to do with avoiding adult responsibilities than embracing them yeah, even unto death, but whatever. To follow Young Rumple’s thread (LOL he did not look a day younger in the flashbacks, they don’t do shit for age makeup for guys because no one calls guys out on aging the way they do with women, haha I am going to have a face full of plastic in another 15 years and it’s all society’s fault), he excitedly got dressed up in a chainmail gown and went to the front and then got spooked by a Seer.

I know one thing this Seer saw for sure, and that is Pan’s Labyrinth. Look at this blatantly ripped off character design! Good God, subtlety zero, you effing image plagiarists! ABC better hope and pray that Guillermo del Toro's lawyers don’t watch OUAT because as far as I know Esperanto films isn’t a Disney property.

Anyway, Rumple was so spooked at the idea of abandoning his wee baby that he pulverized his own leg with a sledgehammer and then rolled around screaming in pain as only Robert Carlyle can. Hey, Carlyle, we know you’re a for-real actor but this is basically a children’s show. Maybe tone it down a little? Yikes.

It got really long and awkward and raw, and then he limped home to find out that his child had been born, but Mila had heard about his cowardly ways and, much like Jane Fonda in Coming Home, it turned her way off. Instead of being glad her hubs was alive and well, she plopped the kiddo in his arms and headed out to find some new dick, which as we already knew would arrive aboard some tailored leather pants.

In Storybrooke, those same exact leather pants were making tracks around town as Hook refused to modernize his wardrobe. While Cora had picked up a copy of Glamour magazine and gotten herself on-trend, Hook was still rocking the guyliner, lacy cuffs, and slouchy boots of a true cosplay maniac. He, Regina, and Cora spent the episode basically twirling their mustaches and looking for Rumple’s dagger so they could use the Dark One to kill all the Charmings. Sure, that’s a fair-enough conflict, although by far the evil-est thing Regina did last night was go through Belle’s purse.

The crime would have been the punishment if she had tried that with my purse, such a whirlwind of lint and small change and yes, a smattering of boxcutter blades. I absolutely loved the reveal that sneaky, morally ambiguous Ethan Embry had caught a video of this on his phone, though of course with the special effects and word-of-mouth marketing campaigns popular today he’ll have a hell of a time convincing people it’s not just a viral video tampon commercial.

Anyway, now that we’re 700+ words in, it's time to get to the real meat of the story, namely that Emma found Mr. Gold’s son and learned he was also the car-stealing shower thief she'd had unprotected fun times with all those years ago. The element of surprise was not present, because this was something we’d all predicted and yes, even started to take for granted in our predictions for the season. But the show still gave the moment a huge music sting like it'd BLOWN OUR MINDS. No, no we knew this was coming from way back, but the meeting of Emma and Bae and the reveal to the characters was handled in a completely gratifying way, if only because of Jennifer Morrison’s performance.

Emma seemed legitimately shocked and horrified and happy to see her old flame, and the two actors across from each other in the bar made an implausible scene one of my favorite moments of this season to date. Seriously, all praise is due the actors in this case because some of the lines they had to say in a stricken tone of voice included “Your father Rumplestiltskin,” and “You left me because Pinocchio told you to?!” and no lie, that is not easy. Try saying either of those lines, right now, with a straight face.

Still, they really pulled it off and I loved how Bae called Emma out on still wearing his keychain, and she had the perfect response, that it reminds her not to trust people BURRRN. Less successful was the reveal of what August had in his plot-spackle box that convinced Bae to abandon the love of his life to jail.

Like, what? Writers, why are you so hideously lazy? That August couldn’t just have said this sentence aloud is the first thing wrong with this picture (anyone overhearing someone say “I know you’re Baelfire” in an alley would immediately think, “These tranny hookers and their stage names!” and roll over and go back to sleep). Secondly, to see that sentence and then have absolutely no follow-up questions, as you will remember from the episode, is mind-boggling. Also, what does August knowing he’s Baelfire have to do with August knowing what’s best for Emma? None of that makes a whit of sense. Plot coupon NOT redeemed. Plot coupon EXPIRED. Take that plot coupon and get out of my store.

It was touching that Bae had kept Emma’s dreamcatcher out of love for her all these years (cause he sure didn’t keep it because it looks cool), and I loved when she reacted to it after a little B & E with Gold, and that Gold immediately confronted her on knowing more than she was saying about Bae. And then of course the climactic scene of Bae coming in and Mr. Gold being all warm but sad at the same time and big feelings looming between Emma and Bae and suddenly Henry came in and Bae was all, tears in his eyes, "How old are you, kid?" and suddenly Henry started shrieking “ELEVEN!!! ELEVEN Y’ALL MOTHERF-CKERS AAAHHHHH I HATE Y'ALL SO MUCH!!!” Like, take two kid, take two, maybe try that with a touch less rage. What was the direction there? “In this scene, Henry, you’re just so confused and so riled up you just start screeching like a banshee. I want the people two sets down to hear you scream ‘Eleven’. Then you calmly walk over to the window and hop out.”

I’m going to skip over pointing out that Manhattan was green-screened behind them because it’s apparently more expensive to recreate than a legit enchanted forest and talk about how gray and heartbroken Emma looked when Henry said she was just like Regina, who had always lied to him. Emma take heart, Henry is a master emotional manipulator who punches holes in Regina’s ego as a hobby, so don’t take him too seriously. Also, I can kind of see Emma’s logic in concealing her past from Henry because OMG, is her backstory with Bae seedy. He framed her for stealing watches! Emma went to jail for stealing watches! Like, watches!? Something about that is just so embarrassingly smalltime. Couldn’t the booty at least have been like a nice painting? Something a little classier? No wonder she wanted Henry to believe he was the product of a pity-sex sesh with a firefighter.

While Emma patiently endured a tongue-lashing from an 11-year-old, Bae and Gold had a tete-a-tete in which Bae got really touchy about that one time Rumple let him fall through a portal into the modern world (and presumably a life of embarrassingly smalltime crime). How could he ever, ever forgive his dad for abandoning him?! Except, isn’t that exactly what he did to Emma? Totally abandoned her to jail and a broken heart for um, 11 years?

There was a lot of talk this episode about abandoning your child, which literally every character on this show has done (EXCEPT Cora and Regina, who are admirably ride-or-die for their kids), and of fate. I’d like (begin rant here) to point out that sometimes the feeling of “fate”—that you’re fated to love someone, or succumb to some kind of morally questionable path—isn’t so much the inexorable pull of destiny as being caught up in a destructive compulsive behavior cycle, of modeling the behaviors of your parents subconsciously, even if you consciously don’t approve of them. Sure, it feels big and bigger than you and written in the stars, but it's actually just written in your brain chemistry. That Emma was abandoned as a baby and was drawn overwhelmingly to a man who would abandon her and her baby isn’t fate, it's psychology. That Bae is angry at his own father for abandoning him but just found out he has a kid shows is really self-contradictory. Basically every good guy on this show needs to pull their nose out of their own ass and forget how hurt they are and worry about not passing their ill behavior to their own kids—which in everyone’s case is ultimately Henry. Snow made this point herself on the phone to Emma before suggesting to Charming that everyone being related might “mellow everyone out.” Optimistic! Didn't seem to work the last time you were all living in the same pointy house, tho. And who taught you the word mellow?

Suffice it to say, this was a waaay important—if not-at-all surprising—episode, and while there were plenty of ridiculous elements it was definitely one of the good ones. And if the show would just build off the momentum of this episode we could have a really stunning series to look forward to every week, but I feel like OUAT is fated to focus on filler.


QUESTIONS:

1. Have you ever found yourself in a relationship with someone and realized they were almost exactly like your mom or your dad?

2. How long ago did you figure out that Bae was Henry’s dad?

3. Emma concealing the truth from Henry: unforgivable or the sensible thing to do?

4. Did August’s typewriter reveal make you furious?

5. Will Gold try to kill Henry?

6. WTF how did Charming not realize people have more than one grandpa? What do you think he would score on the SATs?

7. What is Ethan Embry up to?

8. How long until Hook finds a men's H & M or something?

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Ok I am finally getting around to watching this season and I am confused. How is Bae only like a few years older than Emma, he got sent to Earth centuries before she was even born. All the Mr. Gold as a dad and stuff and Bae leaving him was before he even went and killed Mila, than Hook went to Neverland for a while, and Gold taught Cora and Regina magic, that is a lot of time to go by, but Bae is some how almost the same age as Emma? Someone make that make sense please, things like this are why I stopped watching after the first season until now, they just didn't seem to know where they were going with things.
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Did anybody else think that Emma was going to do something with the dreamcatcher when she picked it up? That's how she read Pongo's mind and found out Regina killed Archie, right?
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I really liked this episode - i thought all the acting was excellent - especially Jennifer Morrisons. I guessed Bae was also Henry's father after The Return in Season 1, so while the reveal wasn't a surprise, I think the actors pulled it off. I can't wait to see the rest of the season
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I was amused the entire read. My favorite part of the episode was the seer!
3. Sensible. Henry get over it.
4. Beyond disappointing. Stupid really.
5. Probably. The show almost killed off Henry once. Do it for real!
6. He's charming. He doesn't need a brain!
7. I can't help but wonder if Mr.Gold or someone with magic could just easily erase his memory and dump him outside of the town limits. Just saying.
8. I'm just glad someone pointed that out. He looks ridiculous at this point in the show.
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Your always ranting Lily abt the series and I know it's for good intent as you have high expectations abt the series but sometimes it gets irritating. But I know this is is your job and too bad for me that I'm still reading ur article.
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3. Haven't we all seen enough TV to know that lying about the babydaddy will never ever end well? I can forgive anyone from fairytaleland, they don't have TV's. But Emma grew up in our world! With our soaps! How could she have missed it?
4. Yes, so stupid.
5. Yes, of course. This is the crazy world of fucked up fairytales after all.
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People are making rather a lot of how thick Charming must be not to realise that people have more than one grandfather, but that's not how I read his line. The way he said it, I took it as disbelief (and a bit of horror) that he shares the title of grandpa and the relation to Henry with Rumplestiltskin - with whom they all have such checkered pasts.
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I just had a weird thought...so, Rumple doesn't want to kill Henry because he is both is grandson and a chance to redo what he failed to do with Bae, but what if he sees that as a bigger issue and actually thinks he can control the prophesy by giving Henry the knife (this is all without the knowledge that it has already been found and that the other set of grandparents are already trying to protect it, spoiler pictures...) and so Rumple can control when he dies (though likely with a plan for Whale to revive him) and have Henry take over as a person who has been trained in magic by Rumple.
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i knew since he popped up in the back of Emma's car that he was Henry's father and so ovbs Bae.
You should never hide the truth--especailly who your father is and if they're even alive or what
AUGUST SUCKS THE WRITERS SUCK I WAS SO SURE IT WAS THE DAGGER
will he try to kill Henry? uh, nuh
That line from charming made me laugh so hard and say "dumass"
i want to see Hook in modern clothing and FEAST MY EYES UPON HIM
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Dagger makes the least sense.

Recall: in "present day" August confronted Gold and pretended to be Bae. He thought he successfully tricked Gold into revealing the location of the Dagger... so he could command "The Dark One" At which point Gold pointed out that Bae would never do that. And that the Dagger trick wouldn't work (either fake dagger or no magic... I forget which).

So, how would August have the Dagger 12 years ago but not now?
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Maybe if he gambled it away :) I honestly forgot August's motivations with the pretending to be Bae thing last year. I had a whole conspiracy that August and Neal had found each other fairly quickly in the real world and grew up together and August was feeling out Rumple for Bae.
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Oh, the dagger would have made the most sense and actually might have given us a glimpse that Bae still cares about his father...that is a little too logical and deep...:)
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I don't agree with "never hide the truth" Mostly because I hate the use of the word "Never"

The kid was 11 AND she thought (at the time) that he was having mental and/or emotional problems and not grasping reality well. Since she wasn't a believer in the Fairy Tale Cursed City bit yet.

So what do you tell your 11-year-old kid in various scenarios? The father was a rapist? You don't know who the father was because you were drunk at a party? The father specifically said he left because he didn't want a son? The mother killed herself due to post-partam depression after the kid's birth? Your father is in jail for being a psycho killer?

Sure... maybe eventually tell your kid the various truths... but there's a time and place. Maybe telling a kid a shocking or sad truth while they're seeing a shrink due to their weak grasp of reality... is not a good idea.

On the other hand, I know people that decided to keep a secret permanently... and only relented when the kid found out on his own in his 20's or something. It's really up to the parents to decide what they want to tell their kids.
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To be fair, those watches were expensive.

This episode really made me dislike Mila more. She's such a terrible character. Really? You rather your husband die instead of living to be there for your son? WTH? A good wife would have been happy even if her husband was a coward. If I was Gold I would make Dr. Whale revive her just so I could rip out her heart again. What a b-tch...

Also, Belle with amnesia is getting to be increasingly annoying...

And poor Hook... Everyone just keeps beating him up.

2. Since the episode where Rumple abandoned Bae.

3. Eh... that's a touchy subject. To some people it may seem sensible but to others it may seem like she's overreacting. (To me it seemed like she was overreacting but then again Emma did not have the same knowledge on why Bae left her as the audience did.)

4. That was a lot of buildup for nothing...

5. Yes because this show just has to drive us crazy!

6. Charming and Snow made the episode for me. He can be so charmingly dopey but that just makes him more adorable.

7. This is a plot line I don't care to see. Hopefully Regina or Cora gets rid of him...

8. No! He has to keep his sexy pirate clothes!!
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I totally agree about Milah...I actually think Rumple has kind of terrible taste in women, first Milah (and I wonder if we get any flashbacks with her and Hook that might make us like her at all - heck, just even planning to kidnap Bae from Rumple would be enough) and then Belle who, really, is just interested in changing him.
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Yeah I agree with you. As much as I like Belle and Rumple together, she is trying to change him into someone he isn't. If she truly loved him, she would accept him for the dark lord that he is.
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I know, this past week's episode seemed to really drive that point home further, especially with Gold truly trying to not be himself. I found Regina's threat to him (especially that his son didn't know who he really was) silly because if anyone knows Gold at his worst, it is Bae. Perhaps someone who could figure out down the road that they can't recover Belle fully but they could kind of blend Belle and Lacey, that might be someone who accepts Rumple for who he really is but can be an anchor in the real world if he goes too far. Heck, before Gold left for New York, I thought there had been a change in Belle in terms of her acceptance of Gold's use of magic at least.
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Yeh, it's not like he swiped a box of Timex and Casio watches. Those things were thousands of dollars a pop. Throw in a handful of them, and you're talking about the equivalent price of a high-end car or some expensive jewelry.

I personally love watches and have a couple of expensive ones. Heck, mine aren't even the EXPENSIVE expensive ones... and just one of them was $3,000

So if they were a bunch of Omega's or whatever... then yeh... major felony.
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Drama over simple problems always prevents foresight
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2. A long time ago, but honestly I can't remember when. Even still, the reveal is rewarding and it's good that the characters now know what we all knew.

3. Emma shouldn't have lied. Lying to your child about his father is never a good idea. The truth will come out and he will resent you, which is exactly what happened.

4. No, it didn't make me furious. It was definitely lacking in imagination, but whatever. Someone knowing who he really was apparently scared Bae/Neal off and sent him on the run. But I don't understand how Emma going to jail and being abandoned was best for her.

5. I hope Gold will not try to kill his grandson, but right now it seems as though everyone intends to kill everyone else.

6. That scene between Snow and David was sweet and provided comic relief.

7. I'm not too interested in whatever the stranger is planning to do with his 'magic' information (the B story), but hopefully it won't wreak too much havoc in Storybrooke.

8. At this point, I can't imagine what Hook would like in modern clothes...but I'd like to see it!
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I don't agree with "never hide the truth" Mostly because I hate the use of the word "Never"

The kid was 11 AND she thought (at the time) she thought he was seeing a shrink for not being able to seperate fantasy from reality. Since she wasn't a believer in the Fairy Tale Cursed City bit yet.AND at the time I think they were in the middle of a murder mystery.

So what do you tell your 11-year-old kid in various scenarios? The father was a rapist? You don't know who the father was because you were drunk at a party? The father specifically said he left because he didn't want a son? The mother killed herself due to post-partam depression after the kid's birth? Your father is in jail for being a psycho killer?

Sure... maybe eventually tell your kid the various truths... but there's a time and place. Maybe telling a kid a shocking or sad truth while they're seeing a shrink due to their weak grasp of reality and death of someone they know... is not a good idea.

On the other hand, I know people that decided to keep a secret permanently... and only relented when the kid found out on his own in his 20's or something. It's really up to the parents to decide what they want to tell their kids.

The guy was angry and upset, but eventually realized they were trying to do the right thing. And no, wasn't me.
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6. I don't think Charming was surprised at Henry having two grandfathers. I think it threw him off that Gold is so much older than he is. It is kinda weird.
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Agreed. Though the jokes stemming out of that line of dialog are quite funny...

I took it as just a shock that both he and Gold are both grandfathers. Especially since Gold is was already 100+ years old before they came to Maine and literally called "The Dark One"

I've seen people zone out / freak out when they realize the other grandparent is a lot different than them. Like it "hitting" a 30-something grandmother that the "other" grandmother is like 70 or something. Usually to to tune of "OMG I feel old, I'm in the same classification as HER"
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pfft I figured Bae was Henry's dad back when we first found out Mr. Gold's son was in our world, that was a given, this show hasn't been incredibly creative, which is a let down cause I was so excited about first season, than it started and it has sorta been crashing and burning. I loved all the fairytale land stuff in the first season. Don't know how I feel about this season though.
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My only problem is the age thing with Baelfire....Possibly like the people from this other world do not age as us earthlings do. I mean after 28 years Cora should be in a coffin for reals and Hook should NOT look the way he does. SOO my theory is the people do age differently and because Neal/Bael was born in that land possilbly he is ageing the same ... BUT then Emma was born "overthere" and seems to be ageing correctly soo????? I did not hate the typewriter thing. Clearly the typewriter has some magic and types out what it wants and possilby August just has to type and out comes what the typewriter wants him to know...Possilby we will see how August got the typewriter.. Im thinking from a Grimm??
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Also, I wasn't a fan of the typewriter reveal but you got me on board with it, still don't like the presentation but the idea is growing on me.
I'm no expert but I think the typewriter is a little bit small for something the Grimm Brothers could have used.
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It looks like they're addressing the aging thing in the next episode. Bae went to other lands before earth...probably Neverland. I'm guessing he knows Hook. He could even be Peter Pan! That would be awesome.
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Regarding Cora and Hook: Time was frozen in FTL, too, as mentioned by who was it, Mulan, the prince?
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Cora also mentioned it to Hook when we saw her cast their protective shell.

Now as for Regina / Snow / Charming / etc... part of the Curse was to make them live this existence forever... free of time but never noticing that time wasn't moving forward.

I mean, 30 years... that means Ruby was a banging hot chick when Madonna was a young hit / Regan was President / Bon Jovi released their debut album. But it never occured to her that "Wow, I banged that guy like 6 presidents ago"
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Right there also was that.

I always thought of it as part of the curse, maybe like in a dream where even the most whackiest stuff makes complete sense.
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1. No, luckily...

2. Hmm... I guess I really started thinking about Bae the first time August rolled into town. I really thought he might be Bae for awhile, and while I initially thought Emma recognized him (I doubt she did unless he really was following her). Hmm, I am really not sure, I was still only partially sure Neal was Bae after Tallahassee (but thought he had to be, there are too many characters!).

3. Well, neither, it was the understandable thing to do though, since technically she lied based on someone else's lie...somebody needs to punch August though (it will be humorous to see if the writers remember that Henry should likely be maddest of all at him, he knew the whole truth, he got Henry to trust him, he continued to lie to everyone, he betrayed Emma at least twice, and, he destroyed Henry's chance at a complete, if flawed, family)

4. Yes, and total writer cop out. I am guessing they were sure in the Season 1 Bae flashbacks what exact role he would play in the future, if any. Otherwise they would have given him something, a necklace, a scarf, something we would recognize and that would have been there.

5. Likely at some point, but I think the fact that he is 1) his grandson and 2) a little wiser than he was before that he might really think about the boy being his undoing being somehow more complicated than he thought (i.e., so, Bae decides to travel back to Storybrooke based on Henry and Emma and something starts to get rekindled as Emma learns more about why Bae made the decision he did, and Emma despite whatever magic she might have, seems more likely to me to be anti magic, so they start to really think about staying behind with those who stay in Storybrooke or even leaving the FTL stuff all together as a family, meaning some characters like Regina and Gold have a bigger reason for staying and giving up the whole idea of magic altogether because it can't work here - here would be an interesting reason for both Regina and Gold to start to try and get Hook to really get in with Emma to break up Bae and Emma, even if isn't a relationship, I imagine that will be a strong alliance)

6. Oh Charming, it is good you are so cute...

7. Honestly, I think they just introduced a character who actually would be friends with the guys from The Big Bang Theory and thought, what would happen if Leonard or Howard ended up here? Then they are going to just make him a little more dangerous. I wouldn't be surprised if "Her" is possibly another portal victim from another world, and maybe he knows, but is totally an earth bound human himself (I was thinking last night, that she is Alice or Dorothy, more likely Alice I think).

8. I know, it is so funny. He appears to make it to New York in the next episode (oh, and that to me was the biggest plot twist of the night, those not affected by the curse won't lose their memories...seriously, poor Jefferson) so he still might not be looked at oddly, but I have this thought that he took his boat. There are some fisherman who might have something to say to him...

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I think the biggest question is missed here: If Neal\Bae didn't know about Emma and the curse is broken... Who was the person who got the message in the first episode? And who send it? Since clearly it wasn't August...

Was the guy who got the note the guy in the hospital? And who is this "her" he sends notes to?
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Neal did know about Emma - August told him in the Tallahassee episode what her destiny was, and that's why he abandoned her. Neal is the person who got the note in the first episode, presumably sent by August (why is it clearly not August?). The "her" character is still a mystery, but Greg Mendel is not who received the note from the pigeon in the premiere - that was definitely Bae/Neal.
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Well...
2. Way long...
3. the sensible thing - I mean... Born in prison and stuff.. Pus the ridiculousness of it all.
4. Just highly disappointed, like... Seriously....
5. I really don't know. Supposedly he has learnt that it always ends bad to mess with the puzzle, but then again. What do you know?
6. That was one serious.. WTF.. It was so ridiculous and said with such a straight face, I think I shed a tear laughing at that... ;-P
7. Honestly... That part is so terribly boring so far... I'm completely not sold...
8. I suppose never... It's made to aggravate me. Seriously... Give me some jeans hugged Hook ;-P

The other thing... Mila. However you try to explain all of her actions was a selfish, self-centered bitch... And someone should loop Hook into that little tidbit...
Makes me even more angry about the Belle thing... I hope Hook comes around and leaves the crocodile to just do some tick-tocking... :-P
Oh, and the last thing... I really like the actor who plays Neal... But the character drives me crazy... He's just so... You know, right? Although, the keychain thing I hardly remembered, but when I was thinking about them meeting I did think about the fact that she really must be hang up on the whole thing since she's been driving the bug for.. How long? Eleven years, and I don't think it was brand new when she stole it.. Duh. Great maintenance guys. Miraculous I'd say...
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The more time I spend away from OUAT, the more I'm convinced tuning out was the right move. Like, really.
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Also, love the joke with the Hamburgers being taken out of the purse.

I'd probably also make some ketchup bottles float around since she was in LOVE with the idea of ketchip.
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How did August know that, 11 years ago?
How did Neal/Bea know August/pinochio was typing the truth?
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Well, it's a valid question of "How does August know ANYTHING he knows"

BUT I believe he's including stories with actual art-work of stuff that happened from before he was even created. Assuming that he wasn't a wooden puppet for like 30 years before becoming a real boy.

At least, I'm pretty sure back in Season 1 when we saw the transitions between pages and flashbacks that we were seeing things that he couldn't have witnessed or know what they looked like. Like how would he know the Mad Hatter's story or what he looked like? I forget, were there page-transitions showing Rumple being the Dark One?

So, considering his art work is spot on... perhaps there's more going on that just kid's memory + a type writer + some water colors.
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So instead of making this episode into 20 different universes wrapped into one show, they just made it about 30 different relationships? This show really does stink... and I even watched HEROES to the end, if you can believe that!
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The one thing I couldnt remember was did hook marry Henry's mom or did she just run away with him, if so wouldnt that make hook & mom - mom and stepdad (theres fun Hook a step dad)
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I think you mean Bae's mom (not Henry's mom).

But I don't know. Apparently they were together for a while when Rumple met up with Gold again. But I don't remember if it was said or if we saw any rings.
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yes you are correct so if hook married bae's mom that would make them grandmom and step grand dad thank you
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I think she just ran away with Hook without marrying him. But this is one great family :D poor kid!
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so let me get this straight (spoiler)
in regards to Henry
1/ emma mother
2/ snow white & charming grandparents
3/ regina great grandmother
4/ cora great great grandmother
5/ baelfire is father
6/ rumple is grandfather
hell of a family reunion
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i don't know why they said that, regina was the step grandmother of henry?Am I missing something here???
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She is Snow's step-mom so it makes her Henry's step-grandmother
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first i didn`t get it either. regina is snow`s stepmom.
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First of all Hook looks extremely hot when he is dressed up like this. I really loved this episode it was touching and nice. And it had MRJ in it so I am happy as hell!

1. No.
2. I knew that since the episode we found out that Rumpel had a son, but it is not that I am so mad that the biggest bombshell was the fact that Neal is Bae. It was great actually. Especially taht the characters didn't know that.
3. Emma tried to protect her son, but I don't understand how come he is the bad guy there? I mean, ok, he abandoned her, sent her to jail blah blah blah. Whatever. But she is talking about him as he is a murderer or something. She is heartbroken, I get it, but telling her son that his dad is a bad guy is the worst thing to do.
4. August couldn't say it out loud because it was the big secret. But to be honest what else August could have in his box so he could convince Neal that he is telling the truth? He came here with Emma so he had no magic or magical things so there was nothing he could say or show to convince Neal to leave Emma and believe him. That was the best thing he could have. But the question is: HOW did he know that Neal is Bae? HOW?
5. I don't think he will because Bae would never ever forgive him that. And I think that Henry is no harm to Rumpe. I think he will be the one to break the Dark One course.
6. This part witch Charming was awesome! He is like blonde dumbo :D
7. Don't know, don't care. This is silly with this part. Seriously.
8. Hopefully never. He is just great the way he is now. So back off!
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What's ashing? Pity sex with the firemen where you getting that? Henry is a master emotional manipulator who punches holes in Regina's ego as a hobby, so don't take him too seriously. How is henry that?
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Ashing is tapping or flicking your cigarette ash. Pity sex with a fireman refers to Emma's original story to Henry about who his father was - a nice fireman she met in a diner and finally agreed to bang. Henry is a master emotional manipulator because he calls Regina evil and terrible one minute, then calls her "Mom" another minute to get her to do what he wants, then as soon as Regina has done what he wanted her to do, he runs back to Emma and calls her "Mom" right in front of Regina.
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You would think that I would be frustrated with the "Neal is Bae" reveal because it's something that everyone and their dog figured out ages ago. But I wasn't. I'm glad I didn't turn out to be wrong. Something about full on, Word of God confirmation feels nice.
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With regards to the typewriter reveal, I wasn't furious as much as I was just annoyed. Let's be honest, whatever was in that box was always bound to be stupid. I would have thought it much better if August had just whispered, "I know you're Baelfire" into Neal's ear (a la Dr. Jenner whispering into Rick's ear in the first TWD finale), and just let that simmer over the course of the season.
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I thought the Seer design was impressive and original, Lily.....shaddap you mouth. The only similarity between the Seer and Pan's Labyrinth is the eyes in the palms, and Pan's was not the first to think of that either. Must not have seen "The Gate."
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Manhattan wasn't green screened. OUAT is filmed in Vancouver, Canada. That scene was filmed in a national historic sight called GasTown which is in Vancouver.
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Really? That surprises me. The background didn't look as real as the actors did. Plus I figured they didn't actually have the actors on a fire escape 40 feet in the air.
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Emma had no reason to believe Bae was worth a damn, so not telling Henry to me was still the right call. I hope this paves the way for Henry becoming the big bad, but I really like Rumple and hope he doesn't die or become unpowered for too long. Great (and hilarious) review Lily!
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Hmmm. Big bad Henry sure has a certain ring to it....
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I love your snarky reviews, Lily!! Possibly more than I like the show...

1. I accidentally married my father. and then I realized what I did and filed for divorce. Bad times.
2. Probably figured out who Henry's dad was in the first episode Bae was mentioned.
3. Emma concealing the truth from Henry is sensible and good parenting. Do you think at 11 you could handle that your mom got knocked up by a crook and went to jail for stealing WATCHES?! Less therapy with lies.
4. I thought the typewriter bit was funny!
5. I think Gold might consider killing Henry but Henry is only gonna take away his power, not kill Mr. Gold, so it'll be ok.
6. Not American but can you score a 7 on the SATs? Because I think Mr. Charming might score that.
7. I think Ethan Embry is Luke Skywalker. He's been looking for a way back to Mr Gold/Darth Vader for a while.
8. I think Hook is more a Hot Topic kinda guy.
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Henry: "Hey, thanks for the hot-dog, Mr. Gold!"
Gold: "You're welcome, Henry. Now let me give you one of my famous speeches about ketchup."
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Yay we found out what everyone knew for the past year. Yay we learned more of the Glittery Goblin's pointless back story. OUaT needs to pull a Revenge and just kill a bitch to get things moving again. At the minute the story seems to be stuck moving in slow motion.
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We're not even gonna go into HOW August knew he was Baelfire? Pretty much zero people even knew of Bae's existence so how did the 7 year old find out?
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THAT's what was in the box?! A flipping typewriter with dialogue that could have been spoken! Lazy a$$ m#%(#r f#$*(&^g good for nothing writers. Yeah, I was mad. :) If that's what was planned all along, then why did it brightly glow of gold when August opened the box to show to Neal/Bae the first time but not in the big reveal this time around?

A LOT of ridiculous stuff happened in this episode and a lot of stuff that most of us knew was coming already - yet somehow I still enjoyed it for the most part. But if I spend any more time nitpicking it to death, I'll start to think how awful it truly was (I'm looking at you, Henry).
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Ok, so let's get back to Talahassee. August instead of showing Neal the box is telling him that he knows. What we could have then? Nothing. No big mystery, nothing. We would know that Neal is Baelfire and wow, no Manhattan speculations. The writers knew what they were doing. We were talking about the mysterious box and who Neal is. Yeah, a lot of us knew that Neal is Bae and so what? We weren't sure! And beside what else August could have in his box? Beating heart? Head? He came here without any magical objects and even if he had something I am sure that people who found him took it away from him or whatever. So nothing else could be in this box that could convice Neal to trust August and believe in every word he said.
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I think the problem lies in that the characters on the show aren't supposed to behave as though they are on a TV show. Sure, if August knew there was an audience watching him who needed to be held in suspense as to Neal's identity, the typewriter makes perfect sense. But he's supposed to exist in a world without viewers, and character motivations have to make sense to THEIR situation, not the viewer's situation. The logical thing to do would be to just tell Neal, "I know you're Baelfire." That's why it's a frustrating "reveal" and bad writing.
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You don't understand. August was typing the script for "Once Upon a Time". This is so meta! Like Community meta.
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More like Cult meta.
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But Community has been doing it for a while and in many different ways. It's still the number one meta reference. Let's see how Cult goes.
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Nope, but I probably will...
I saw it first in comments last season but kinda forgot about it. Plus didn't they reveal it earlier this season with teen clepto Emma in prison with a pee stick?
Human thing to do. If the father of my child was a thief and a liar and I didn't think I'd see him again, why tell the truth right away? Let the kid grow up with a pleasant lie and save horrible truths for adulthood... like believing you can be a good athlete without roiding, or Carnival is a poop free cruise line.
It was a bit anti-climactic. Did they have a convo in that ep about what was best for Emma after the 'big reveal?' I can't remember.
Maybe, but probably not (darnit). Rumple was all 'Hey Henry you ain't so bad with your hotdog and your blah, blah. You may call me Grampastiltskin.'
Charming has never been the brightest bulb, but he had the best (and worst) line of the night. 'It's a good thing we don't have Thanksgiving cuz that dinner would suck.' True dat.
Meh, don't care. We're supposed to be threatened by this random stranger with an iphone and the one friend he msgs? 'Her' is probably his cat- 'Her Exalted Rollypollykins.'
I'm starting to feel sorry for Hook, everyone turns on him, and it's making him look really gullible. Wouldn't look bad in a suit, but then he'll immediately die, for why? Cuz he's hot. And hot, decent guys can't last long on this show. Bae too, I called it.


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Can someone explain to me why Rumple can heal any injuries except his own??
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there's also the fact that magic works differently in our world. he healed Belle's gunshot but yet can't heal his injured leg even with magic now in SB. But next week...the answer is easy enough, Hook stabs him outside SB, where he *doesn't* have magic at all.
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He can heal his own injuries. We see him do it in the Season 1 finale when Charming cuts his face. He just can't heal outside of Storybrooke because he has no magic.
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My guess, it has to be fresh. I mean I don't see him going around healing scars.
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That's a pretty common theme in all worlds that use magic. You can heal others but not yourself. Wheel of Time comes to mind of the top of my head. Hell even in Starcraft, medics can only heal others not themselves.
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good point
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Okay this was a good episode. But it did NOT surprise me at all. Even the last 30 seconds did NOT surprise me. Which is amazing because that really should have shocked me. but no, it did not. However, I knew after Emma left Bae in the pub, he was gonna come bursting into the room toip speed as Rumple is yelling at Emma and being all Hero Like, "Leave Her Alone" and pretending to be all macho. Dude, he ran like a wimp as soon as he SNIFFED Rumple. Besides, why was he so shocked to see Emma? She did use his buzzer and TALK INTO IT! He should surely have recognised her voice, even through crappy electronic buzzers. I loved this review, it cracked me up. I was laughing so much my brother decided to come and see what the hell is wrong with me at... nearly 2 in the morning. LOL! Anywho...... time to answer Lily's review questions.

1. Have you ever found yourself in a relationship with someone and realized they were almost exactly like your mom or your dad?

HELL NO! And just.... No!

2. How long ago did you figure out that Bae was Henry's dad?

Uh from the moment I knew that Baelfire had been sent to the real world, I knew he was gonna turn out to be Henry's Dad. I KNEW that shiz was going down straight away. Despite the fact that it's Chronologically impossible (what with Regina not even being born when Bae was sent to the real world) I still knew it was coming.

3. Emma concealing the truth from Henry: unforgivable or the sensible thing to do?

Pfft, please, all Baelfire did was steal. The way Emma talked in season 1 you'd think he killed someone. Okay he got her thrown in Jail too, but even though his reason is idiotic, he at least had one for her. So hiding the truth from Henry was pointless. Although it was NOT unforgivable. Emma is trying to protect her kid as well as herself, and at the end of the day, seeing as she's been let down by the guy, it's only right to assume that he is very likely to let Henry down, so her reaction was not unforgivable. Stupid, but not unforgivable. After all, lies come out into the open. ALWAYS! LOL!

4. Did August's typewriter reveal make you furious?

No, just incredibly disappointed. I was hoping he had a copy for the book or one of Rumples spinning wheels or something. That was pathetic. But the only reason they did that was so we didn't learn that Neal was actually 'Baelfire' (says this while making airquotes because WE ALL KNEW DAMN IT!)

5. Will Gold try to kill Henry?

Actually, I don't think he will. I think he'll try to distance himself from Henry, but I don't think he will try to kill him. My reason for saying this, Rumple is clever. He knows if he kills Henry Bae will NEVER forgive him. Also, he likes Henry, and maybe, having the seer power also allows him to look at the other ways that Henry could possibly be his downfall. It's entirely possible, that like Emma's Mum kiss on Henry's forehead broke the curse, that Rumples fondness and possible love for his grandson could be his downfall, rather than Henry himself. After all, Cora is way power hungry. What if, behind Regina's back, Cora asks Rumple to kill Henry (including dagger of course) Rumple has a choice. He can ill Henry or kill himself. He might just finish himself off to save Henry. Thus Henry would be Rumple's downfall, but not in the way we think. (like evil teenage Henry killing Rumple with his own dagger, that would be hilarious)

6. WTF how did Charming not realize people have more than one grandpa? What do you think he would score on the SATs?

Look, Charming was raised on a farm with no school. In some american states, that means marrying your cousins and staying in the same place for the rest of your life. So one set of grandparents sounds feasible. LOL! No I'm only joking, but Charming can't help being unintelligent. He even said himself in ep 2 "We Are Both" that Snow does his talking for him. SNOW WEARS THE TROUSERS! Can you blame him if he's not that smart?

7. What is Ethan Embry up to?

Supernatural TV Series? Maybe? Hell if I know.

8. How long until Hook finds a men's H & M or something?

NEVER! How dare anyone suggest that Hook change his fabulous Leather Pants. LOL!
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I doubt Bae recognized the voice. A lot of those intercoms stink and you can barely tell who they are. Add to the fact he hasn't seen her in 11-12 years and there you go.

I can tell you, I couldn't recognize my ex-girlfriend's voice and I last spoke to her maybe 8 years ago. The same goes with some college friends. Sure if I KNOW or EXPECT to be hearing from them I would immediately make the connection. But if someone with caller-ID-blocking called me on the phone tomorrow I'd still be like "Who's this?"
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Yeah I had some love/hate issues with this episode as well. I know I really shouldn't, but I still catch myself holding these people to the same set of rules as all of us here in the real world. There were so many things that people did in this episode that were so ridiculous. Regina using magic to look through Belle's handbag, for instance, was just plain lazy on her part. Now that she's embracing magic again, I can see why she would be using it even when she doesn't need to, but even when she was the Evil Queen she only used magic with a purpose. In this instance she wasn't even using some sort of magic filter to see which objects were important to her search, or anything like that. It was incredibly transparent that ti was just there so that Ethan Embry's character could film something magical. And that in itself was ridiculous: the fact that he would be in the right place at the right time to film that without Regina noticing. I realize that this kind of thing happens in TV all the time, but it did push the envelope that he was both spying and filming her doing magic, without her noticing either of those things.

Rumple's whole story was even more ridiculous though. So at first he's all brave and ready to fight in battle, but then he becomes a coward from listening to a creepy girl who says she can see the future, and this results in him wounding himself and hobbling home. (Side note about that girl: those looked like stitches on her face, so were her eyes removed from her head and then put into her hands or something?) First of all, how bad an idea of it was that one soldier to say "hey watch this mysterious prisoner but watch out" before walking away without any further explanation. That's like having your students buy the Monster Book of Monsters without telling them about stroking the spine (that's right Hagrid, you're a kind and lovable person but you really shouldn't be teaching kids). Thankfully, Rumple was sort of smart and told that girl things like "you overheard that from someone," or "you're just saying that so I'll not fight." But then he started believing her, even though it was clear that she was being very choosy with her words.

It was also just ludicrous that he suddenly believed her prediction of the future, because he and the other soldiers were told they would be riding on saddles rather lazily and badly nicknamed "cows" into battle, why they weren't just called "saddles" I don't know (I guess most saddles in FTL are made of woven unicorn hair or something). The important thing is that, of all the pieces of information that the seer told Rumple, the fact they would be riding "cows" into battle is the one thing she was most likely to overhear, and not know through other means. However, this was somehow enough for Rumple to determine that the best thing to do was injure himself so that he could be sent home. Fair enough, that's actually not a bad idea anyway considering that, at least according to that one soldier, literally no one ever survives a day of battle.

But here again my man Rumple wasn't really using his head, because instead of wounding himself during the battle, a safe distance from most of the fighting, he decided to wound himself before any of the fighting took place. And while it's already difficult enough to explain to your superiors how you got wounded in battle the day before the actual fighting, Rumple also wounded himself while still in the camp, and without even having the decency to hide in a tent or something. He was also very loud about it as well, so probably a lot of people saw him drop his hammer and just hobble away from the camp without another word. No wonder his wife heard about what he did; I wouldn't be surprised if he was the talk of the camp, and the war, for years to come. He'd be somewhere at the top of the list of FTL's stupidest people ever, just for that one series of very questionable events.

I'm also a little worried about Regina. What's up with her. Yeah, I can get the whole "Mom loves me" thing, as well as the "I want Henry bit," but still; she's not stupid. Cora's plan is to force Rumple to kill Emma, Charming, and Snow, so that Regina will have Henry all to herself and he'll never know her part in all this. Really? As someone who has carried out a number of brilliant and evil plans herself, surely Regina can see the flaws in this. First of all, just because Charming, Snow, and Emma are dead, that won't actually mean that Regina gets custody of Henry. Considering the ever-present dark past of mass murder, oppression, and general evilness that surrounds her, I doubt the whole town would be fine with Regina having sole custody of Henry, though honestly no one in that town is/would be a good parent. But of course, this still assumes that Cora's plan would go off without a hitch.

There is no way Cora's plan will go off without a hitch. First of all, as we know from the episode where Rumple became the Dark One, you can compel the Dark One to do your bidding, but he/she doesn't have to like it. I doubt Cora could make sure that Rumple would kill those three people without somehow giving away the fact that he isn't able to control his own actions. And even if she did, at some point Henry is probably going to learn the truth about Regina's actions. And I'm pretty sure/I really hope that Regina wants Henry to want to be with her, and that she wouldn't be content with forcing him to live with her. Because we already had an episode dedicated to that very issue. And finally, there's the simple truth that the entire town knows that Cora is on the loose, so they'll be naturally suspicious of any evildoing going on. I'd also like to say that everyone should know of Regina's complicity with her mother by now, since Tiny should have told everyone that Regina was the one who gave him the mushroom. But hey, I should really stop assuming that these people have even a minor amount of intelligence. After all, these are the same people who were turned into a violent mob in five minutes by their former evil King, who technically they should never trust ever again.

Still, I was fine with all these silly shenanigans because the storyline progressed nicely. Rumple knows that Henry is his grandson, Henry and his father know about each other, and there was that nice reveal in the end about Henry being Rumple's undoing. And at least Cora, Regina, and Hook are actually doing something constructive, and not just wreaking havoc everywhere (though remind me that it I ever have to hide a dagger that controls me, just put it somewhere random and hard to find, but memorize that location instead of putting its location on a map, and putting that map in an easily accessible and public place). And while I wish Henry wasn't rash enough to say Emma was just like Regina, and that instead he could keep in mind that lying to someone once is different than telling someone a lifetime of lies, literally holding them prisoner for a bit, framing your grandmother for murder, having a secret vault full of people's hearts, and killing a lot of people. Yeah, there's a bit of a difference there. Oh, and his exit through the window just made me laugh.

But even though this episode was at times wild and crazy in a frustrating way, I did enjoy it for the most part. It brought a lot of storylines together and set up some great plot-lines for the next couple of episodes. And it'll be nice now that there are a lot less secrets threatening to choke everyone to death. Also, now that Rumple has been reunited with his son (for now at least), and now that he knows he's Henry's grandfather and that Emma is practically his daughter-in-law, this will give him much more of a justification to be good, if in fact he continues to be that way.
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I still suspect that Regina is faking an alliance with Cora, on the theory that you keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Probably to protect Henry.
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I've had that theory for a while now as well, but it's getting harder and harder to continue believing that Regina is secretly working against her mother. After all, she's done a lot to progress her mother's plan that wasn't necessary, such as showing her mother and Hook that map in Belle's handbag. Still, she could be planning on taking the dagger for herself, and double-crossing the other two once its found. But if that's the case, then it seems likely that she just has her own villainous scheme up her sleeve, since if she just wanted Rumple to kill Cora she wouldn't need the dagger to do that. He'd happily do away with Cora, and he'd take out Hook as well for shooting Belle.

There's also the problem of Regina unleashing a vengeful giant upon Storybrooke, which is not he way to go toward demonstrating your "goodness." So at this point, I'm hoping that it turns out that Regina isn't really on her mother's side, but it's getting harder and harder to actually believe that 1. She hasn't sided with her mother, and 2. She is still mentally sided with Emma, Charming, Snow, and Henry, at least to the extent that she doesn't want the first three dead. Because while it's a good policy to keep your friends close and your enemies closer, that doesn't mean you should assist your enemies as best you can so that they achieve all their goals. Still, I hope you (and at the moment myself as well) are right.
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Rumple's wife: "How could you, Rumpelstiltskin? Now our son will have to grow with the disgrace of knowing his father is a coward. Well, there's only one thing I can do about it: make him be raised by his cowardly father and have him grow with the additional shame of being abandoned by his cowardly mother who ran away from her responsibilities and went to live with a pirate just like that! Byeeeee!"
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Snow: Rumpelstiltskin is Henry's grandfather.
Charming: Hey, I though I was his grandfather?
Snow: Well, you can have MORE THAN ONE grandfather.
Charming: Come again? Whatcha mean?
Snow: TWO GRANDFATHERS. Ring a bell?
Charming: WTF? Can you draw me a family tree?
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I like the show, I really do...but damn it they make it so difficult to. The show is the definition of frustrating, I really feel that much like S1 yet again there's a lot of filler episodes and dragging things out. I just feel that lately the show keeps repeating itself and it comes to a point where it becomes boring and predictable. This episode proved exactly that, something so predictable and obvious that at times it didn't even make sense. I think that at times the show suffers from the fact that they have to stretch the plot to a 22 episode season, they really have to work on that.
- I like the development of having Rumple have to kill Henry, I mean I'm not complaining. The big downside to that is that it makes Henry a major player in the story again, and as this episode shows, Henry still can’t act. Seriously, the whole argument scene was embarrassing in every sense. I mean, the dialogue and acting was so stiff and unconvincing. When Henry came shrieking for no apparent reason, I just wanted to slap him so much. I seriously just hate the character so much I can't stand him in any way. He' so annoying and makes me want to cut off my fingers.
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I think you may be off the hook (ha!) with Henry being a major player. The seer just said "a boy" who is "more than he appears"... she might have been talking about Pinocchio. I was thinking maybe August set up Henry's adoption and therefore set the events in motion that led Rumpel to his son.
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I was thinking the same thing while watching the show, it has to be August!
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I know that the timeline of the flashbacks to the enchanted forest is debatable, but shouldn't Bae be older than he is. Rumple was the Dark One when he trained Cora which was likely during Regina's younger years and we know it to be when Snow was just a child. Given what the Seer saw it is possible that he targeted Cora to get to Regina in the first place meaning that Bae was likely already gone and we know he was gone by the time Belle came into Rumple's life.

Rumple said that Bae was around 14 or so when he fell through the portal. Say that this happened when Snow White was a child, right when Rumple began to train Regina. Now add about 10 years until the curse is cast. Now add 28 years for the curse to be broken. Bae should be much older, in his fifties at the least. The only explanation would be that he is somehow magically remaining young but I don't see how given that he was never exposed to the curse.

Otherwise the episode was decent, even if the reveal of Henry's father was kind of already known. However, one of the most humorous parts was Snow White and Charming discussing the fact that Bae is Henry's father. Snow's face when she realized that Regina is Henry's adoptive mother and his step great grandmother was great.
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Seriously? Did nobody in this thread waste their youth reading sci-fi? (1) Time can run at a different pace in different lands. (2) Different portals can dump you at different places. Even if Bae was born 50 years before Emma in FTL, 11-yr-old Bae could have been dumped into our world at about the same time Emma arrived.
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I could buy that they the lands ran under different rules of time but no mention of that has been made. In fact, Mulan mentioned that they were frozen in time for 28 years when she and Phillip rescued Aurora meaning that time moves at the same rate in the Enchanted Forest as it does in the real world.

However, you do have a point with the second factor you mentioned. It is possible that Bae was dumped out around the same time as Emma and August were. He would be about 42 years old taking his age as 14 and adding 28 years for the curse but we are never given Neals age and the actor is about 35.
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Rumple was the Dark One for many many years... like over a century. It was confirmed in an interview with the writers that the Ogre war where Rumple turned into the Dark one was like a hundred years before the Ogre's uprising with Belle's father. So there's a question as to how Bae is not super old (or dead).

Bae did drop a line in the episode that "for more years than you can imagine" that he had bad dreams. Perhaps hyperbole. Perhaps he was saying he's old as heck but just ages really slowly.

In which case, perhaps it took many many many years for Rumple to master his future-telling before he could start manipulating the right people: Cora, Regina, etc.

So either Bae's "been around" for a while, the portal worked in time AND space and brought them closer to Bae's entrance into our world, or the writers changed their mind on stuff.
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but time over there passes differently. so those years rumple spent scheming may have only been a couple years for bae. but there is still that whole 28 year curse issue. if that time was 2-3 years for him thats still 30-31 years older so he could 44ish
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Yea Bae's age doesn't add up and I'll doubt they'll explain it. I think he'd be beyond his 50s. I remember it being said Rumple had been around since Regina's birth, or had plans since knowing her as a baby at least. I can't remember exactly though. But that adds a lot of time to Bae.
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I laughed hysterically a couple of times after reading your post. You are killing me!
Anyway, the typewriter thing was REALLY REALLY STUPID. I was watching with my niece and I was like: "So... August couldn't just have said that?!" I mean, what the hell?!?

Other than that, I believe this was the best episode of this season so far! And I really liked the Seer character! It was such an improvement over Chinese monsters and giants and whatnots.

I love what they did with the characters! We have to see how Regina will handle finding out that Cora has manipulated her, and who Henry will turn to now, and what will Rumple do about Henry... I just hope that they make the filler episode less irritating because this episode got me believing that this show still has much to offer.

P.S. Charming is probably just channeling David Nolan's stupidity or something. I'm not even going to go there.
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Yay! I loved this episode. Jennifer Morrison really grew on me as an actress, and she was soooo good in her scenes with Henry and with Neal.

I'm loving what they're doing with Rumpel's story, there are so many callbacks to Oedipus with his character and I love it! Particularly with the whole seer/trying to fight a prophecy thing.

I hated that typewriter reveal...it felt like the writers threw that in last minute when they couldn't think of something more awesome to put in the box. Otherwise, August could've just said that to Neal. I suspected that Neal was Bae for awhile, but I don't really care, it was well done! I also think Charming was just in shock, and it was supposed to be a joke.
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Haha let me just say that I really like your style, you funny dawg.

It also amuses me that Cora had a totally normal outfit and Hook was still parading around in his piratey clothes, I hope he will come across a store one day and then I know he's gonna rock an awesome outfit.

I enjoyed this episode a lot eventhough it was not much of a surprise that Neal was Baelfire, but hey, it's still pretty cool.

Lol what the hell Henry, you're such a weird kid.
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I guess now Emma will finally know how it feels to have your kid cling to a total stranger who pops out of nowhere, demands that he has as much right to your kid as you despite having been nowhere through all the tough years of child-rearing. #REGINA

ALSO I'm going to sound heartless here, but I "kind of" understand why Mila got so angry that Rumplestiltskin didn't fight. She did "her bit" of parental duties by risking her life to give birth to their kid (Since magic doesn't bring back the dead and they seem to be living in medieval times(ish), I'm guessing that the mortality rate for childbirth is just about the same as our medieval times(ish). She was just as likely to die bring their child into the world as he was. Of course that DOESN'T justify her desire that he die. I'm just trying to get through her anger.

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First of all Rumple's wife was an irrational B*TCH!! I know she was all in love with Hook but I really want him to fail at his avenging her death thing 'cause wow she deserved to die.

Meanwhile Rumple could have faked going into battle before he hurt himself....

Baelfire....that was whatever we figured it out already

So the post it randomly thrown into the purse with all the other things was lazy, shouldn't have been in a wallet, a book or crumpled up just much!

August.....no words...I'm mad he was carrying that thing around for one sentence
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