Once Upon a Time "The Miller's Daughter" Review: Sympathy for the Devil

Once Upon a Time S02E16: "The Miller's Daughter"

First off and foremost, and I have to get this out of the way: Congratulations, Snow! Good job, girl. You took an important step this week that might very well have saved the lives of every single person in your family. Finally, someone with the audacity to call themselves a hero took a break from being frozen in time, entranced in a coma, or having their soul sucked into a wraith and took the first damn step toward self-preservation in wrangling the mother-daughter sociopaths who've been playing Storybrooke like a Judds concert from hell.

Secondly, my hubbs watched this episode alongside and it was first time he'd seen OUAT in, I’d say, about six months, and during the last commercial break he turned to me and was like, "Really it doesn’t seem anything has happened since the last time I saw this show." Which arrgh: I love that this last three-episode arc has been so focused and had such meaningful backstory, yet I’ve no doubt the writers dreamed it up in one late-night session and then linked the last three episodes together because all of the little tie-ins (Rumple and Cora being lovers or whatever, Snow's Death Candle) are pretty self-contained. Imagine if they did this all the time! Interwove the logic of episodes, one from the next, as tho 'twere one drama rendered in serial fashion! It would be like, entertaining and stuff.

Now that that’s off my plate, let's get into this episode. The FTL flashbacks were some of the most insane footage broadcast under the guise of primetime entertainment I’ve seen in some years. Masques.

Soooo many masques. Rumple with all of his face paint off his lips.


Whoops! Reapply after kissing scenes, makeup dept., reapply. 

And steamy Rose McGowan swinging for the fences with a series of super-wraught monologues about love and sensuality and child-bargaining. 

I loved it. The gowns, the cleavage, the lip liner. It was magical. And can't you just imagine the moment she and Barbara Hershey had, talking about the character at a donut shop!?

Rose McGowan: Thanks so much for meeting me, Barbara, I know you have your yoga so I definitely appreciate your time. I'm so excited to get on board with the OUAT crew and I just wanted to talk to you about Cora and who she is and what she does.

Barbara Hershey: Yes she’s a beautiful character, a strong woman, a woman with a lot of agency. She falls in love with Rumpelstiltskin because he puts her in touch with her dark side, but then she locks her heart away so she can propel her daughter toward the goal she’s always wanted, such a parable for our times, you know, sort of a commentary on how women feel pressured to balance careers and children and the pressure to have it all, and even though she is a villain, I definitely try to express through the work the sympathy I have with—

Rose McGowan: Excuse me, Barbara, I don’t want to alarm you but I'm pretty sure that guy one booth over just shook a little kernel of feces out of his pant leg and onto the floor. Oh no, he's doing it again—oh, that's awful—

Barbara Hershey: What?! 

Rose McGowan (whispering): Don't look. Don't look, he’ll come over. I thought he was on the phone or something but he’s just talking to someone who isn’t there and shaking turds down his pants. We should go.

Barbaray Hershey: I knew we should have gone to Whole Foods.

Rose McGowan: I’m sorry. Let’s just get out of here.

Barbara Hershey: Okay—FYI for Cora, bottom line, just act all cold and bitchy.

Rose McGowan: Got it. See you on set.

So, magic, it would seem, is all about harnessing emotion, as Rumple revealed both to Cora when he helped her turn straw into gold, and to Emma when he talked her through the biggest sexual release of her life/threw the protection spell.


I appreciated how the writers worked in the original Rumplestiltskin story of the Miller’s daughter spinning the hay into gold to win the hand of the prince and whatnot (although we didn’t see why she was so pissed off about having to kneel before a child; I’m guessing that was Snow’s mom but really, why pretend anyone is keeping track of this?). 

From the promos for next week's episode, I guess Snow is going to feel a lot of angst that she killed off Cora and saved Rumple’s life when she could have simply had Regina put the heart in Cora’s chest, "It would have been enough," and Cora’s pure motherly love would have united all Storybrooke into literally one seriously inbred family and banished darkness forever, but let’s review some facts:

1. Cora was a raving sociopath who raised an army of the undead and was actively planning to kill everyone Snow loved. And let's not forget Snow is hardly a stranger to violence, we’ve seen her fight ogres and threaten to kill MULAN, for crying out loud.

2. The only thing standing between Snow and certain death to all she loved was Charming, who is the dumbest and least effective person in town. I mean, in the midst of the battle to keep Regina and Cora away from the back room of a pawn shop, he somehow ended up locked outside the front door, knocked out cold. 

He’s made a long stream of bad decisions and questionable maneuvers and if he tells you to jump, duck. If he tells you to run, hide.  Snow seemed to kind of "get" that in this episode, and for that I will always love her.

3. Regina killed her dad who had a heart and who loved her and Regina loved him back, so stop telling me that real love keeps everyone happy. It doesn’t keep sociopaths happy.

4. Regina also as-good-as-killed her own mother when she shunted her through a portal into an other-realm abyss, so, let’s not be so judgy.

Whatever. Because Barbara Hershey is just a fantastic actress I was like tearing up when she finally looked at Regina with love in her heart and her heart actually in her chest and Lana Parrilla did this incredible smile back and then Cora died in her arms with that fantastic line, "It would have been enough." 

Meaning, obviously, if she had ever let herself feel, if she had focused on love, power would have been meaningless. Like, let's all sit down and sob forever. I mean, this is high melodrama—this is the sort of high morality tale melodrama Victorians would be sobbing over at a theatre or something but it’s still effective today and I am just at the mercy of Lana's eyebrows and lower lip.

And Neal clenching his dad's hand wordlessly. These effing amazing actors!!! I wish I could be there for the table reads when they have to go through these insane lines for the first time and get out their giggles.

Another moment where a fantastic actor sold me on a sort-of-insane moment: Rumple casually calling up Belle to let her know he was dying. It's sort of a faux pas to break up with someone over the phone so the etiquette here was kind of shaky, but obviously it's Robert Carlyle so his speech to Belle was just insanely romantically gratifying. Seriously you could just hear the shovelfuls of coal being swung into the roaring furnace that powers the Rumpbelle ship. Enjoy it, you maniacs. I really hope he called Belle back the moment Cora crumpled to her feet all, "Hey! Guess who’s still alive!"

Since Cora only showed up a couple weeks ago (hence Barbara Hershey’s "guest star" status), it was a safe bet that she'd be the #OneWillDie victim. And her tragic death ultimately reset the show's premise: Regina hates Snow. Snow just wants to be good and never fight back. Emma must make it all work. 

So essentially we all could have skipped through Season 2 up to this point and picked up next episode and not been too in the dark. Still, what a wild and crazy and emotionally wrought couple of episodes it's been! The last three have been sort of a miniseries unto themselves, and I appreciate it. Although I'll certainly miss Barbara Hershey’s cold, calculating Cora (and Rose McGowan’s steamy sexpot Cora). And the idea that the all-powerful macguffin dagger can always pull other villains to Storybrooke while our heroes endlessly wheedle over who they are and where they belong.

QUESTIONS:

1. So does Rumple just not age, or is he several generations older than Belle?

2. Does Snow sort of understand that Charming doesn't know what he’s doing at all?

3. Does magic = brain sex?

4. When did you start feeling sexually attracted to Robert Carlyle? Was he in or out of the Rumple makeup?

5. Invisible chalk?!?!

6. How did you like this episode?

Comments (265)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
You are such a fucking hypocrite. You really are. In your review of "The Doctor", you still condemned Regina for giving in to revenge, despite learning how Rumpelstiltskin emotionally manipulated her. You even called her a psychopath . . . or a sociopath.

Yet, you congratulate Snow White for succuming to revenge and orchestrating Cora's murder in the most cruel manner. You more or less called her a hero.

You're more concerned with the moral compass of the victim than the moral compass of the person who committed the crime. Especially if the perputrator has been labeled a "hero" like Snow White.

You're a hypocrite through and through.
Reply
Flag
Can I just say Rumple is so hot..I don't know what's wrong with me lol! He is so seductive in this episode!
6
Reply
Flag
Rose McGowan was so great as young Cora, she will be missed. All this time I thought Rumple doesn't have chemistry at all with Belle, and it's still the same. The phone-call scene still proved it. But... Rumple did have chemistry with young Cora (Rose McGowan). I was really intriqued with their scenes. Too bad it was just a one-episode thing.
4
Reply
Flag
1. Rumple is definitely much older than Belle...and he hasn't aged in quite some time (due to magic no doubt, and being the Dark One).

2. Charming is cute, but quite ineffective. Although to be fair, no one without magic could fight Cora and Regina. At least he tries, sigh.

3. No comment

4. I LOVE Robert Carlyle, both in and out of the Rumple makeup. Anyone who doesn't think he's hot just isn't paying attention. I first loved him in The Full Monty.

5. Whatever...not the best part of the episode. I loved the magic candle, and all the ins and outs of how Cora was killed. Great acting on the part of Barbara and Lana. It's okay to kill Cora, but they can never kill Regina!

6. Loved the episode. I was quite confident that Cora would be the one to die...it was the only thing that made sense.

I think you should give the writers more credit, though, Lily. I'm sure they've had these stories planned from the beginning of the season, and are just filling in the details and dialogue from week to week. With a show as complicated as OUAT, you have to have a plan for where you're headed.
More+
10
Reply
Flag
ok so if cora and rumple did have an affair how could she be sooo sure that"any baby i have won't be yours"
5
Reply
Flag
Oh god, what HAPPENED to Rose McGowan? She was so gorgeous on Charmed, and now, something is wrong with her lips. Its like they are constantly trying to make duck face against her will. Either she is obsessed with plastic surgery or she is aging very badly. Also, could Rumple and Cora (the younger) have had any LESS chemistry? Watching them kiss was uncomfortable, and when he mentioned her child being "his" and they fell into bed...major willies zone. Not hot, at all
1
Reply
Flag
I actually really liked her lips, I was amazed at how much they made her look like older Cora.
1
Reply
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
Charmed ended 7 years ago.

Between her now being 40yo and it looks like she had work done, you can't expect her to look the same. She's still hot though.

Plus, I have a feeling they did at least a little bit to make her look like Hershey
Reply
Flag
I just read that she had plastic surgery following a car accident where her glasses were broken on her face?

ITA that her lips are just gross though...
Reply
Flag
We didn't even get to really know Cora... other than she was obessed with power, so when she died... it was okay... that just happened, and moving on now.

What the hell Rumple... he totally immediately sold Snow out, even though she saved his life.
I wonder if he saw that he was going to live and Cora die, which is why he asked her if she ever loved him. You know.... since he can see the future.... I hope more of that comes.

I was really hoping they'd have the invisible chalk break. I mean she was really pressing down on it hard, and it didn't break? All chalk breaks... then it would have been hilarious watching her try to find the broken peice, or having Charming trip from it because he's utterly aloof.

Still waiting for The Little Mermaid to show up...... just sayin....
2
Reply
Flag
I don't think we've necessarily seen the last of Rose McGowan's Cora...or possibly even Barbara Hershey's in the alternate universe.
There's too much back story there, and I doubt they'll have trouble getting the actresses to come back if there are ending contracts and such.
2
Reply
Flag
She was 5th in line. Like Rose Mcgowan said, it would've taken a lot of bloodshed. ;) We may see her yet again.
1
Reply
Flag
Lily! OUAT just posted on facebook: "Guess who's back this Sunday?" with a picture of Graham!!!
1
Reply
Flag
Staff
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! They must have gotten my threatening, tear-stained letters.
4
Reply
Flag
1. So does Rumple just not age, or is he several generations older than Belle?

Both, actually. Eddie and Adam have said that he's something like 300 years old. I imagine that the Dark One curse prevents one from aging until either the curse is broken or passed on to someone else.

2. Does Snow sort of understand that Charming doesn't know what he’s doing at all?
I certainly hope so. Charming implied at some point early in Season 2 that Snow is the smarter one of the two. I think it was during We Are Both, but I'm not completely certain of that.

3. Does magic = brain sex?
That would explain so much wouldn't it?

4. When did you start feeling sexually attracted to Robert Carlyle? Was he in or out of the Rumple makeup?
Um....never, in fact. I go for more of the adorkable-sweetheart types, generally. Meh, to each their own.

5. Invisible chalk?!?!
I'm going to admit I laughed like crazy when the chalk clinked in the jar and Emma gave that amazing WTF face she has. Even SHE thought it was ridiculous...and then proceeded to scribble with the invisible - and apparently, never shrinking - chalk anyhow.

6. How did you like this episode?
It was okay. I'm with you on Snow's decision, although I think it was a little short-sighted to trick Regina. Also, I'm not convinced that Cora really felt any love for her daughter. Maybe it was one last manipulation to ensure Regina stayed on the powerful queen path? Cora is severely narcissistic before she removes her heart, so I don't see how restoring it changes anything. (Also, anyone else thinking about the Warlock's Hairy Heart at that moment?)
More+
1
Reply
Flag
1. So does Rumple just not age, or is he several generations older than Belle?
Rumple is several generations older--Adam and Eddy mentioned in a podcast that Rumple is 300 years old. So in terms of age, Rumple is the oldest, then Hook (who went to Neverland anyway), then Bae/Neal, followed likely by Granny, Cora, Regina, Belle, and Snow. Belle and Snow would most likely be in the same generation, given that they all encounter Mulan/Aurora/Philip at some point, and given that Aurora was cursed around the same time too.

2. Does Snow sort of understand that Charming doesn't know what he’s doing at all?
I'm pretty sure they both do. Even Charming knows that he's the brawn and she's the brains. (Hello, We Are Both)

3. Does magic = brain sex?
Which begs the question--what were Emma and Regina doing in Broken when they were trying to make the hat work?

4. When did you start feeling sexually attracted to Robert Carlyle? Was he in or out of the Rumple makeup?
I never thought I'd find a man covered in glitter paint and leather even remotely attractive, but hello, Robert Carlyle.

5. Invisible chalk?!?!
Somebody needs to go back to the drawing board. I'm pretty Emma could've just done a spell.

6. How did you like this episode?
I was hoping that I'd be overwhelmed, but somehow the impact felt short, although that last sequence with Cora, Regina, Rumple, Snow, and Charming was easily the best part of the entire episode for me.
More+
9
Reply
Flag
You know who I really feel for, Regina's dad Henry.

Fate just really shafted this guy. His father bascially auctioned him off to pay for the failing kingdom, he marries a woman who not only did not love him but turned out to be a literal heartless bitch, his once loving daughter turns into the most hated woman in the kingdom and as nutty as her mother, he is abducted at least once, and he gives up his own heart for his daughter's psychotic curse.
11
Reply
Flag
The poor guy is fifth in line from the throne- four brothers ahead of him? I don't know whether sisters and heirs count in this. I mean, if his older brother has 3 sons that would account for it. So he's kinda second fiddle.

Then after he marries Cora, she takes over. I'm guessing there's a lot of backstory about what happpened during their marital spats (Fireball!) Still second fiddle. Plus his wife is ambitious, so he's probably entertaining constantly when he'd rather be just reading a book or something.

It's possible the royal family was deposed at some point- the house was nice, but not quite a castle. But it could also have been their country estate. Not really sure.

Do you wonder if this guy would rather have just been a peasant?
Reply
Flag
As far as the bigger question of killing... It's a tough call. For example, since we're talking about a fictional universe, let's use Batman as an analogy.

The Joker, in the Comics, is evil incarnate. He has killed or tortured hundreds (perhaps thousands) of innocent people. His punishment: get locked up in an asylum over-and-over, which he routinely breaks out of. He cannot be contained (much like they can't contain Regina / Cora if they wanted to). If anybody deserves to die, it's Joker.

Batman doesn't kill him. He has his reasons (depending on the author that month) and many make sense. Part of him would LIKE to kill Joker, and if he feeds that part then it will start a cycle where HE will turn into a monster (killing other criminals).

But, would a citizen of Gotham care if Batman killed Joker... perhaps by tricking Harley to do it in a situation he couldn't reach in time to stop Joker from killing loads of people? Like Batman knows he couldn't do two things at once (disarm Nuke A and killing Joker to prevent Nuke B from going off). So he tricks HARLEY into poisoning Joker.

Harley loves Joker and such an act would crush her. Getting someone to kill the one they love, but to save others, is sad. But now YOU'RE a citizen in Gotham that gets to live a little longer and without the fear of getting ganked by Joker on your mind every day.

In the real world, we don't really have an analogy to Regina / Cora and the Joker. We don't keep letting killers go free over and over and OVER. We don't have magical women or crazy killer GENIUSES that constantly escape to kill again. They may get out of jail once but if they do it again they're put back forever (or killed). Terrorists... well, we tend to try to deal with them once-and-for-all (permanent jail or death). So it's not quite the same.

So at some point, in some weird fantastical situation like this, you have to step up. Do you put YOUR morality above the many many lives you know will be lost?

As for the happy-ending option (give her uncursed heart) well there's no gaurantee that would work. Cora was pretty dark with her heart, and Regina supposedly HAS her heart and has still done evil. So there was no gaurantee Cora would actually say "this would have been enough"
More+
1
Reply
Flag
I disagree. We do have an analogy. Because these people represent evil incarnate and keep getting released, they themselves aren't perpetrating actions in perpetuity: they represent that people themselves will always continue to do them. Therefore Batman represents the other side of that, that there will always have to be someone vigilantly guarding against the evil and psychotic. There will always be someone who wants to watch the world burn, and always someone who will need to string him up by the ankles, and there's the rest of us in between.

That's really what I've always taken away from the "costume/alias" dynamic in comics, and the "character/plot" dynamic in shows. They are far more representative of human struggle over the long term than the short.
Reply
Flag
Just one question. . . . why is belle still in the hospital when rumple cured her with magic?
Reply
Flag
After she crossed the town line, she lost her memory and reverted back to her cursed persona. If she is let out of the hospital, she would be surrounded by recently awoken fairytale characters in a town full of magic. Even if the town residents act normal, she would likely see something and freak out.

Also, given the fact that her cursed persona was kept in a mental ward, she may be mentally unstable or at the least be scarred by her time in the ward. Combine that with possible exposure to magic and you have the potential for a harmful mental break down.
3
Reply
Flag
There's also the time element here- all the action of the past few episodes takes place within a few days; definitely in the same week. Belle's freakout when Ruby came to visit was simultaneous with the plane trip, remember? And I surely wouldn't be letting a girl who reacted that way out onto the streets of Storybrooke AFTER Rumplestiltskin announced he'd kill them all if any harm came to her.

You don't need the Dagger to get Rumplestiltskin to kill the entire Charming clan- just hurt Belle. So Snow and Charming have very good reason to leave Belle where they can keep her safe.
4
Reply
Flag
Still, she should have been kicked out by now.

At the very least, they wouldn't let her be hanging out in bed all the time.

1
Reply
Flag
Was it just me, or did anyone else see Bette Davis in "Jezebel" when Cora walked into the ball in that red dress? I figured young Cora was about 20-25; and the King was just calling her "girl" because "wench" was no longer in fashion.

Princess Eva/Ava- twins? Maybe the same setup as James and David? Because Snow's mom sounded a little too good to be true, when you think about it, with that line about respecting everyone. When they gave her title as Princess of the North, I wondered whether we'd see "The Snow Queen" worked in somewhere...

If Prince Henry is fifth in line for the throne, could he be King George's younger brother? They did say the country was chronically short of money...I'd probably retire to the country for my health if George was doubting my loyalty- he'd be likely to choose a permanent solution to any question of usurpation. And there was the whole business about a fairy godmother to his family line (at least until Rumplestiltskin got involved), which could account for why Cora didn't just assassinate him.

Alternatively, there could have been a war of some sort dethroning Prince Henry's family. Heck, maybe Leopold was Henry's older brother!

But the best part of this IMHO was the deathbed scene. How can Belle, amnesiac or not, resist a man who says such amazing things when staring eternity in the eye? (Even if he is ten times her age!) If that doesn't jar something loose, her memories are gone forever.

I have been in love with Mr Gold/Rumpelstiltskin since about episode 4- love the elegant menace of the suits, but the saucy leather pants and the dragonskin jacket sure get my attention! NO ONE but Robert Carlyle could pull this stuff off. The scenes at the spinning wheel made me seriously consider buying one, if that's what spinning lessons would be like...Hotter than "The Full Monty"

On a totally different note- could Joanna have traded the candle for the tiara? Or did Cora trade the candle for her heart back? Because I'd have sworn that she gave Rumples the box during her goodbye speech...Literally giving him her heart, how could he not realize she loved him? Oh you foolish imp!
More+
8
Reply
Flag
I am thinking that the Ava that tripped Cora at the castle was the same one who would become Snow's mother. Something that will likely be touched on later will explain how she became the kind woman we saw after her younger self was so rude, possibly tying to her courtship with King Leopold who was depicted as a kind and loving king to his people.

Of course, this gives more backstory as it explains why Cora chose Ava's throne as her target. It all began that day when Ava tripped Cora and the hatred carried on for years, eventually being passed to Regina and Snow who have continued the war.
1
Reply
Flag
You're so right, Carlyle is a genius! He makes someone who is supposed to be contemptible and serpent-like seem completely hot and tempting. I guess they are trying to say that darkness can be very alluring. Out of all the stars and guest stars in their buff 20s and 30s, I would pick Carlyle over all of them. *swoon*!
3
Reply
Flag
Did you see the tears in Belle's eyes?

OMG that was sooo good! Who doesn't want to hear those words from someone?

I'd be like, I still don't remember but it really doesn't matter anymore! Come get me now! We'll make your last moments memorable!
7
Reply
Flag
the rush was so they could have a reason to finally admit that his son is no other that peter pan!!!!!!!!!
Reply
Flag
What was the point of rushing Rumple to Storybrooke if he couldn't even heal himself? Wasn't that the whole point anyway? to get to Storybrooke so that he could use his magic to heal himself but for some reason he was powerless..
Reply
Flag
No, I think he realized that things were getting out of hand and that he HAD to kill Cora immediately, so he realized that he could get Snow to do it by giving her the candle thing, which was in his shop, which was in Storybrooke.

So naturally he had to go back their to get the candle and end everything finally with Cora
1
Reply
Flag
He must have had at least a seed of a backup plan, in case he wasn't able to heal himself.

Or he thinks very fast 'off' his feet. ;)
2
Reply
Flag
Kind of a plot hole. I guess part of it could have been he was too weak to use magic, hence using Emma's force field. I mean, I don't know about you but I wouldn't put my life and the life of others in someone trying something FOR THE FIRST TIME unless I was too weak to do it myself.

But, as you said, it makes no sense. If he's immortal to anything except the dagger, and crossing the Storybrooke town line restored his power, then you'd think that crossing the threshold would restore his health since it wasn't the dagger that hurt him.

Healing himself: perhaps too weak. But the dagger's rules should have protected him.
1
Reply
Flag
Killing Rumplestiltskin with the Dagger makes you the new Dark One. But Cora was afraid that all the power would boil away into the atmosphere (maybe an explosion?) if he wasn't killed with the Dagger. So it's possible. I think Hook would have been less successful in Storybrooke, where Rumplestiltskin's magic was active. The genius of the plan was to attack outside the magical boundary, where he was essentially powerless (and preoccupied with Bae, thus not expecting an attack).

I think there might have been something else useful in the shop. But why not take advantage of Emma's powers? They'd worked better than anything else against Cora and Regina in the past...
Reply
Flag
Cora didn't want Rumple to die before she could stab him with the dagger because then she wouldn't become the dark one and get his powers.
1
Reply
Flag
What if he knows that taking off the talisman scarf actually took away his magic? He would never admit that to anyone because it would make him totally vulnerable, so he says he needs to get back to SB to use magic (knowing all the while he's going to have to get Emma to do it). Maybe his storyline moving forward is going to be how to conceal the fact that he's lost his power - maybe there's enough left to keep him from aging, but not enough to wield magic. This would allow him to have true love with Belle and Bae without fear of losing his dark powers, but he's going to have to keep up the charade so that Regina doesn't pummel him! Or it's just a plot hole. :)
Reply
Flag
That would be interesting but I kinda doubt that the show would go in that direction. It seems more likely it's a plot hole, considering the rest of the show, but who knows.
Reply
Flag
I kind of get the feeling watching the show that the character is letting certain things happen, anyway. Like, he's more surprised when things work than that they happen. He can see the future, after all. I'm sure that's all full of surprises in it's own way. Point being, I feel like he's always telling people one thing to get them places, then doing something different. I don't think this time is any different than any other.
Reply
Flag
I am wondering if anyone is going to confront Regina about her logic when she tries to kill Snow White again over killing Cora and likely still because of her accidentally causing Daniel's death. I mean lets look at the track records here.

Cora: (1) treated Regina like crap for about 99% of her life, (2) killed Snow's mother (3) killed Daniel, (4) framed Regina for damned murder, and (5) murdered an entire village of people including a knight of the round table. Now Regina is going to go all Punisher on Snow because she put Cora down when she herself would have done it no more than 4 episodes ago.

Of course Regina has quite the track record herself. (1) She cursed the entire kingdom to living in the real world in a time lock, (2) Crushed the heart of the sheriff because he stopped being her love slave, (3) Locked a girl in a tower and asylum just to piss off an imp, (4) ripped a man from his daughter and left him to die in Wonderland, (5) Sent her own mother through the looking glass to Wonderland, (6) killed her own father!, and the biggest one that should tip her off that she should not go after Snow for killing her mother (7) She killed Snow's father.
More+
5
Reply
Flag
Are you trying to apply logic to this show?? Have you SEEN this show?! Ain't nobody got time for that!
9
Reply
Flag
Good point. I am just looking for a little jab at Regina's motives since she is obviously going to go after Snow. At the very least, someone should point out that while Snow killed Regina's mother, Regina killed Snow's father. Heck, Henry read the book, let him call Regina out on her BS. In his warped 11 year old mind, he would likely see them as being even.
1
Reply
Flag
Rumple never ages, which is fine. But there's another problem with aging: Hook. Let's walk through this:

1) Rumple's wife leaves with Hook when Rumple is still human.
2) Rumple becomes the Dark One and gets his revenge on Hook.
3) Then, Rumple hatches a plan with young Cora (and, by the way, I *still* think it's possible that Gold is Regina's father, but we'll leave that aside for now) that doesn't work out.
4) Then Cora gives birth to Regina, who GROWS UP until she's, like, 18 or older, and meets Rumple and blah blah blah we know what happens.

That means Hook has supposedly aged *at least* 18 years (and probably more, given that Regina enters Storybrooke at what appears to be her early to mid-30s) by the time he meets Cora and Emma and Mulan and Snow and climbs the bean stalk and all that.

Except he clearly hasn't aged much, if at all. And if doesn't help if Rumple takes his vengeance on Hook sometime AFTER he makes the deal with Cora -- not only would we have to buy that Rumple is cheating on the wife he thinks was kidnapped from him with young Cora, but it still wouldn't change the fact that, pre-Regina and pre-Rumple-as-Dark-One, Hook looks the same as he does at least two decades later.

Perhaps you're going to say I'm over-thinking OUaT, but the writers have spent not-insignificant effort establishing the weird little rules of their many different realms, and people growing up so far seems pretty normal: Emma ages normally here on Earth, and Bae seems to as well (although if he *is* Peter Pan, all bets are off -- he may have spent decades in Neverland, not growing up, before arriving in New York), and people clearly age normally in Fairy Tale Lands, magic powers and racial differences (dwarves, fairies, etc) notwithstanding.

So what does Hook do for all that time between losing his hand and his wench, and meeting up to work with the more matured Cora, that stops him from getting older? I suppose Neverland must be the answer, and I suppose they'll establish that everyone stays young there, and not just Lost Boys.

Which means we're going to be delving into the Peter Pan stories here soon, which makes me wonder -- who are they going to cast as Tinkerbell, and could she please somehow show up as a villain?
More+
Reply
Flag
NEVERLAND...UH DUH!
Reply
Flag
I think it is a nobody ages in Neverland kinda of thing.
5
Reply
Flag
Most likely that's going to be the case, but in the original stories (and I think the Disney one) Peter doesn't age, but nothing's said about Hook, or it's implied that he actually does age (because he's not childlike at heart). But in OUaT we have Peter aging (assuming Bae is Peter) but Hook not. So that's weird, is what I'm saying.
Reply
Flag
1. I just don't want to think about it. We can safely say that all age barriers have been broken in this series. Henry might even start dating Granny and I wouldn't be surprised!
2. Well, she certainly did in this episode. Sometimes I feel like he does do something, but I can understand your reasoning.
3. If that's the case, does casting a curse with a wand = masturbation?
4. Hmm, not really my cup of tea. But I will say that from early on, he's my favourite character on the show.
5. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Don't forget about the mystical boardwiper...
6. I liked it, even though I only watched semi-concentrated. You kind of got the feeling that everything was going the way you thought it would... so not that many surprises.
7. Just want to add, what's with all the cleavage costumes ??!!?? Not that I'm complaining or anything, but when it get's obvious to guys, it's becoming too much.
It's almost annoying in Game of Thrones Nudity terms...
2
Reply
Flag
The cleavage thing is period, oddly enough- some of the 30s outfits haven't been. But it's got to be tough to concentrate on filming when someone bends over too far...
Reply
Flag
And it's an equal opportunity attraction to his characters, both in and out of makeup
(ie: Gold and Rumpel).
2
Reply
Flag
I felt so shameful watching this episode with my mom while she was all "oh, he's just such an ugly guy" while I'm curled up on the couch biting my nails trying not to get lost in the sexy.
I'm too attracted to a fifty year old in leather who's painted gold!
why am I like this? someone diagnose me.
11
Reply
Flag
haha DITTO!!!!! I thought I was the only weirdo who found Rumple so sexy he is so seductive especially in this episode <33333333
2
Reply
Flag
Rumplestiltskin truly works magic! The voice, the eyes, the leather pants... what's a little glitter among friends? And Mr Gold being the richest man in Storybrooke is its own kind of sexy (didn't you want to help him out of that Armani suit?). More intelligent than Charming, and more character than Hook.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the view, my dear.
4
Reply
Flag
the fact that he's a fifty year old who still looks good in leather says a lot...
7
Reply
Flag
Regarding Robert Carlisle: not sure I'm attracted to the actor so much as to his portrayal of characters.
Watching this episode again: his line delivery is just so phenomenal!
ie: " Funny you should ask--Can you read?" (showing young Cora the contract)

So stylistic--you've just gotta love him.

Watching him on the videos of the cast's panel discussions at the festivals, he's not so charismatic. But when he gets into character--MAGIC!!
2
Reply
Flag
and i realy realy realy realy realy would love to see full on Rumple in our world
kinda like jackyl &hide

mr gold and Rumple :)
Reply
Flag
the Rumple makeup is freaking hot!
love the show,the only thing i find hard is the backgrounds they realy should try better.
make a decor half decor half effects and you get better results.

same with the show v damn that was worse than any b movie.
ouat is doing it a lot better,but still it could be much more
3
Reply
Flag
4. When did you start feeling sexually attracted to Robert Carlyle? Was he in or out of the Rumple makeup?

hhhhhhhhh yeh, ii didn't' get it either
Reply
Flag
Why is there no mention that Regina and Snow are 1/2 sisters? Because based on the ending where Regina was obviously sired by the prince who we have assumed is Snow's future father... that would make them related. Unless it was a different prince. So confused!
Reply
Flag
Different prince. The prince was named Henry and Snow's father is King Leopold.
5
Reply
Flag
Thanks. I was super confused there for a moment!
Reply
Flag
I'm getting tired of this show... We're being told to prepere for "battle" but these battles are always the same.

Why did Cora even bothered shooting fireballs or shoving charming out the door if she could just teleport everyone far away like she did with Neal and Emma?!?

They really need to start working on decent fights (or avoid them)

Cora's backstory made no sense. She had to choose between love and power? WHY?!?
Why couldn't she have both at the same time?
I mean she could have spinned straw into gold. That's practically infitine wealth (Fairy tales don't deal with inflation) and with Rumpel's magic? She could have easily taken over the entire kingdom if she wanted to.

Let's say she was afraid that love is a weakness, then she took out her own heart. She wouldn't love Rumpel anymore... But she still marries the prince out of self intrest... Why not marry Rumpel out of pure intrest?!? She had far more to gain from him.

And if they loved each other, which they clearly implied, why didn't that break the curse?
Belle did and Cora didn't? Cora confessed she really did love Rumpel...
6
Reply
Flag
Maybe Cora wanted to conserve power because she didn't know how much she'd have to fight through to get to Rumplestiltskin?

Cora couldn't have both at the same time because she wanted the title and the lineage- as so many wealthy Americans found when they went into European society, you can't get into the game without the proper ancestors. If she'd seen magic as the ultimate power, rather than a means to an end, she'd have stayed with Rumplestiltskin. But she wanted her daughter to be Queen- and I doubt she could have gotten Rumplestilitskin to conquer her a kingdom, no matter how persuasive she was.

That's why I'm intrigued by Storybrooke being in Maine- will the democratic process rub off on the FTL characters? Will they eventually "vote out" their royals?
Reply
Flag
"Fairy tales don't deal with inflation"

haahaahaa :)
2
Reply
Flag
She not only wanted power she wanted the respect only a higher beeing like a royal could receive (that's why kneeling down was so hard for her). She might have remained with Rumple and scared half the land into submission but she would have still be scorned by those in power (the same goes for doing it on her own. in the past there were merchants ten times richer than royals that didn't receive half the respect a lord did so they had to marry their sons and daughters to blue blooded people to gain respect... so her having gold wouldn't have solved her kneeling problem). Like this, with the king (secretly enslaved) accepting her as family and keeping her in high regard, she gained so much more than she could have with Rumple (even from the political standpoint).

Also, Rumple had different plans. All his actions and machinations were mainly to get Bae back so I don't think he would have stopped to live a happy life and terrorize the kingdom and fight the battles needed to ensure it

The kiss didn't work because it wasn't true love. Cora said she loved him the most but i believe her bitter and resentful heart was incapable of really loving him ( i bet she partly loved the possibilities he could offer her)
More +
6
Reply
Flag
Except that if you recall... Cora was in the enchanted forest kingdom until Regina banished her to Wonderland... Then she became queen there...


Clearly she can take over a kingdom by her powers alone.
So she and Rumple definitly could have taken over the entire kingdom as king and queen.
2
Reply
Flag
But she probably did it by stealing the heart and marrying the king of Wonderland... if I remember right, in the real story, there was a king even if the queen was the real ruler. And by that time she was already a queen... respect and position doesn't go away just because you change realms
1
Reply
Flag
1. Ever since Rumple became the Dark One, he just doesn't age. Since the only way to kill the Dark One is to stab him with that dagger, death by old age just isn't possible. And the other Dark One we saw was looking pretty good, and wasn't some shriveled old bad of bones who was barely held together, so I think aging just stops. Which means that he is old enough to be Belle's great great great something or other.

2. I like to think that these characters are a little aware of each other's flaws. I notice that a lot of their pep talks go along the lines of "we did what we thought was right" or "I love you and nothing else matters" or even "our hearts were in the right place." All of these are similar in that they are often used as excuses for people failing a lot or causing something bad to happen. Which means that they've realized by now that they fail quite a bit, and are pretty ineffective at getting things done. Also, Charming even said in the second episode of this season "Snow did the talking and I did the fighting." So he knows that he's really the muscle on the team, and should probably leave the leading and ruling to someone else. And if he knows this about himself, then Snow probably knows this as well.

3. Pretty much. You meld your emotions with your desires and thoughts, all of which are located in the brain, and you can make big physical things happen. If that doesn't give you a rush then I don't know what will.

4. Well before this show, I can tell you. So...out of the make-up then. Though I have to say... let me just say that he pulls off that look surprisingly well.

5. Yeah, that one makes no sense. It's not like the chalk is supposed to make things invisible, it's supposed to give them protection. So it would make more sense if the chalk were hard and sturdy, and could stop bullets, or something like that. Besides, whoever invented that stuff is just plain stupid. Losing it is almost certainly a given, and it's a major choking and tripping hazard. I can only guess that the writers plan on there being a lot of invisible chalk somewhere that we've already seen, and we were looking at it and didn't realize it. Either that or the props department was feeling very lazy that day and they just didn't do their jobs.

6. Well...I did enjoy it for the most part. I think it was a good move to kill Cora, since otherwise it would just be an awkward little dance for the next several episodes until the finale, but now things have and can actually happen. And I did like the poetic way in which she died, and how it worked very well with her backstory. However, I really don't like how Cora's death is going to make Regina a villain again, because it really shouldn't. Regina should be celebrating with everyone else over this. She really should. But now she's going to go back to her old evil self. And while I guess some people are pumped about that, because they like her as the evil queen, I'm not that excited. I thought Regina was more interesting when she was trying to be a good person and fighting for the light.

And I also thought the writers could have at least come up with a realistic reason why she did a full 180 back to evil. Both her suddenly siding completely with her mom and firmly supporting a plan she herself said wouldn't work, and being angry at Snow for killing her mom when she was trying to kill Snow and pretty much the entire town, after she realized that her mom just wanted the power of being the Dark One and nothing else, just makes no sense. The only way it kinda works is that all the actors involved are really good at their jobs, but this just isn't enough for me. And I'll especially be annoyed if Snow actually goes along with the accusations that Regina will inevitably throw her way. But let's be honest, she probably will.

Anyway, I still enjoyed this episode more than I usually do, and I almost always enjoy this show. In general I like where this show has gone and where it is going, I would just like it if the writers didn't have so many awkward/unrealistic transitions between their major arcs. It would be nice if some of the vendetta and hatreds on this show were born out of seeds that had actual substance, like "this person killed my parents," and not "this woman humiliated me in front of a crowd so I'm going to kill her and ruin the lives of her entire family" or "this girl didn't keep a secret so I'm going to kill everyone she loves and haunt her her entire life." Yeah, that would be nice.
More+
2
Reply
Flag
Actually I think Regina's problem with Snow is not that she killed her mother, it's that she tricked Regina (basically told her she could have a loving mother and a family) into doing it herself and that's twisted...badly. Regina thought she was helping and ended up killing her own mother by doing it. It was devious move from Snow because manipulating someone into killing her loved one is different from going there and straight doing it herself.
10
Reply
Flag
I really enjoyed this episode, and this review, but I really wish that I could talk to these characters some times and show them how convoluted most of the things they say and do are. And in this episode my "Really?! Are you serious?! Really?!" awards go to Cora, Snow, and especially Regina. First of all, I have this to say to you, Cora. Really?! The big reason why you hate Snow Whit's mother so much is that one time you made her trip? Really? That's the big reason why you went on a life-long vendetta against her entire family? Why you killed her, almost made her daughter perform dark magic, manipulated event so that your daughter would marry the king that you made widowed? Really? You didn't even kill the other king who actually was crueler to you than anyone else among all the royalty. I mean, that prince was actually kind to you. But just because you were a commoner, some girl made you trip, and a king was cruel to you in front of everyone you determined you would do whatever was necessary to make all these people bow before you? Really?

And why were you so surprised in the first place when the king "put you in your place?" You'd presumably been in that palace several times before and had grown up in that kingdom, and yet you actually talked back to the king like that? The king? Really? I'm not saying that the society you lived in was good or just or anything, but it's common sense to not talk back to an actual king, in his actual kingdom, while he's surrounded by a ton of his subjects. Don't actually argue with him and say that he's wrong, that's just going to piss him off. Be happy he wasn't King George, because that guy would probably have had you executed on the spot. Actually, he probably wouldn't do something like that, since he's sort of kind that way. But you know who would? You know who's such a crazy cruel ruler who is known for executing people for minor reasons like that? The Queen of Hearts. Yeah, she would have said "off with her head" before you were even done arguing with her. Oh wait, that's right. You are the Queen of Hearts. Wait, really? You didn't even stay consistent with your past self even a little by determining that when you ruled a kingdom you would actually let commoners speak their mind and not treat them like your playthings that you could just kill on a whim for no reason? Not even as a way for you to give a small shout out to your past self? Really? Even Rumplestiltskin, who became the straight-up Dark One, stayed true to his past self in some ways, by taking care of his son and still caring for him and all that. But you even used your daughter and manipulated her to continue your vendetta that was borne from one woman tripping you one time. Really, Cora? Really?

And then there's Snow. Look at you. You've fought and killed countless enemies on the battlefield. More importantly, you killed a bunch of werewolves, who were mostly all-right folks, out of self defense. And you've always been able to bounce back from these acts of killings, sometimes with barely a bounce needed, and still think of yourself as a good person. And yet, killing someone who is arguably the most evil and vile person in the universe is something that gives you pause? Really? This is the woman who you know for a fact killed your mother. She also killed your friend Lancelot and what looked to be more than a hundred of your subjects in FTL. And those more than a hundred subjects died recently, I might add. You are a fairy tale heroine, it is in your job description to kill evil villains.
Emma, your daughter, killed a dragon who was actually a woman and that was fine. Maleficent was similar to Cora in that she was an evil ruler/witch who maybe could change, but it was fine that Emma killed her and she didn't suddenly become evil or something. And while I realize that in the past Charming had to stop you from killing Regina because that would have made you evil, that was in FTL, and our world has very different rules. Things aren't so black and white with good and evil, and killing someone who is "evil" doesn't suddenly made you "evil." But even if killing someone evil is a bad thing, it's not like you're standing over Cora while she's sleeping and stabbing her with a knife. Because Cora was in the act of trying to kill pretty much everyone except for Henry. That means Emma, Charming, Rumple, Red, Grandma, all the dwarves (which now includes a giant for some reason), and various other people who would generally try and fight against evil. So killing Cora was not only self defense for you, but your entire family except for Henry. And yet you feel bad about it because it "isn't you." Really?! Saving the lives of everyone isn't you? Really?! I mean, I get that you're not happy you killed someone, but just consider her as a soldier in a war, which she is, and mentally deal with her murder like you do all the countless soldiers that you've killed, who were all better people anyway. Seriously.
And finally we come to Regina. Yeah, don't think I've forgotten you, girl. What the hell is going on inside your head?! Seriously, what kind of craziness is moving your cogs up there. So I get that you got mad at the end of this episode when your mother died in front of you. I get that, I really do. And yeah, it was sad that you were the one that dealt the killing blow. But then you looked at Snow and said "look what you did" like you were accusing her of killing Cora. What the hell did you expect?! Seriously. You're angry at Snow for killing your mother? You're treating her like she betrayed your trust or something? Really? Do you realize that you were just planning to kill everyone that Snow loved besides Henry, and that includes her? What did you expect would happen? Did you honestly think that a trained warrior who has killed countless soldiers in battle would never in a million years kill a woman who was planning of killing off or oppressing the town that she is pretty much Queen of? Really?

And Regina, have you forgotten who your mother is? This is the woman who killed Snow's mom. You now know that she set everything up so that you would become the Queen. You and Snow just found out that Cora tried to get Snow to use dark magic when she was a girl, and that she tortured the mind of that little girl by making her hate the fact she didn't do something evil in order to save her mom. How do you think you have the right to blame Snow for killing your mom? Of course you can be mad at her, go ahead. But self-righteous? Really? And honestly, what is up with you missing your mom so much? This is the woman who killed the man you loved. And don't try and tell me that losing Daniel is all in the past, because you just saw him about five episodes ago. This is also the woman who kept you prisoner as a child, the woman that you genuinely wanted to kill. She is the woman that you just realized was manipulating your throughout your entire life, even up to the present. You know that the whole reason for her wanting to get the dagger was so that she could become the Dark One. You know that. She had no interest in what you wanted whatsoever. The only actual moment of genuine love she showed you was right before she died, and that was it. So honestly, why are you angry at Snow for killing the woman who has done more than anyone to ruin both your lives?

And while we're on the subject of you hating Snow, why did you even hate her in the first place? When she was a girl she didn't keep a secret? Really? You wanted to ruin Snow's entire life because you trusted a little girl with a secret? It's not like Snow killed Daniel; your mother did. And while I'd normally buy the idea that you blame Snow for Daniel's death because you could never do anything against your mother, you killed your mother. Or at least you tried to kill her. So if you got your revenge by killing your mother, why does Snow get a worse treatment? Why kill her father and try and kill everyone she loves, and eventually kill her as well, because when she was a girl your mother tricked her into telling her something? Why did you try and get more revenge on Snow for being a little naive when she was a girl, then you got on your mother for actually killing Daniel and in general ruining your life? Seriously, why?
So feel free to be angry at Snow for killing your mom, go ahead. Feel free to start doing evil things again and become the big bad of the show once more, the choice is yours. But remember that the choice is yours. Don't do bad things and tell Snow it's her fault like I know you will, because it's not her fault. Seriously, it's not. In the past couple of episodes you unleashed a giant upon Storybrooke with the hope that he would kill a bunch of people (including Snow), you stole a dagger so you could force Rumple to kill a bunch of people (including Snow), and you just assisted your mother so that she could try and become the Dark One in order to kill a bunch of people (again, including Snow). Which means that once an episode for the past three episodes, you and your mother have tried to kill Snow. So don't try and tell me that this is all Snow's fault. Just don't. I mean, you won't, because I'm not on the show, but don't try and make it seem like Snow is somehow responsible for anyone you kill or otherwise harm in the future. Because if someone pointed a gun at you and fired three times in a row, each time trying to kill you, you would have no problem killing them for that, and you would consider it to be self defense. And if the daughter of that person got mad at you for doing that, even though she was feeding her mom ammunition this entire time and taking pot shots at you as well, and starting trying to ruin your life and saying that it was all your fault, you would probably think she was crazy. So really, Regina?! You're going to do what you yourself, or anyone for that matter, would say is crazy? Really?
More+
20
Reply
Flag
AAAAAAHHHHH Graham's in the next episode!!! <3

youtubeDOTcom/watch?v=y_3nQp81Vl4
1
Reply
Flag
1. I think he does not age. I bet it's a spell too.

2. I don't even think he knows what he's doing.

3. Does magic = brain sex?Um, yes.

4. I'm not attracted to him in that way, that goes to the Sheriff and the Madd Hatter, but he's fairly good looking in that leather for sure.

5. I can has some?

6. I rather liked it. It was paced well. I swear Rose and Barbara could be mother daughter. The look so much alike! I thoroughly enjoyed the story, due to me loving the 'stiltskin story as a child. To this day, I still think the king was a moron.

Bae still having love for his Dad, despite the kind of person that his father is, was interesting.

Cora's death, can we first talk about rad they looked in slacks, please?! Seriously, they looked great and then the fire through the door was so good.

Snow being tempted or rather going to that side was nice to see.

I liked this episode and wanted more. It ended too soon for.
2
Reply
Flag
Seems you can live forever as the Dark One, but as Rumple lay dying I was worried Cora was going to burst into a Taylor Swift song... we're never getting back together, like ever.
Snow understands Charming doesn't have it in him to manipulate or fight dirty... so maybe he's the better half? Also it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, he's Gryffindor, she's Slytherin.
If it's all about 'feeling' it with your mind...then I guess.
The glitter makeup has always creeped me out, and thx for making it worse by showing it rubbed off his lips. Robert Carlyle is far sexier as himself and I loved him first in The Full Monty.
Yah, what was that?! Eh, next will be the magic toe nail clippers of destiny.
Overall good ep. I was wondering when we'd get the original Rumplestiltskin story, also glad Rumple wasn't Regina's real father, too much inbrededness as it is. My beef was the lame fight scene, again, you guys think swords are a good defense here? Plus Cora and Regina aren't casting to kill? Never stun the heroes thinking you'll come back to finish later... Avada Kedavra people!

You're right tho, amazing, stunning acting in the deathbed scenes. These actors get some weird crap and make it real. Kudos.
More+
5
Reply
Flag
Haha Cora and Taylor Swift songs...
3
Reply
Flag
When Rumple shifted Cora as childish as it was I found myself shrieking, "GROSS!" at the TV. Not even The Fully Monty could make me think Carlyse was someone to fancy.
Reply
Flag
Thought Rose McGowan was spectacular and wish she could be a regular. And Barbara Hershey will be missed. I have thoroughly enjoyed the season so far.
3
Reply
Flag
This is just my opinion: I love this season. I was very apprehensive of where this show would go in a second season coming off a very successful first season. I've enjoyed the back stories and most of the new characters. I do admit that it seems like they may need to reign in the history in the fairy tale land a bit better. It's getting a little sloppy and even just a tad bit hard to follow sometimes. Just little discrepancies here and there. Next season i would like to see the show get even darker and more serious and maybe have some of the main cast take a back seat to some newbies.
Reply
Flag
The invisible chalk acted like a protection spell, but Cora was able to get through it the first time around with her ball of fire, but took forever to break it the second time. Seemed contrived. Thumbs up to Rose McGowan for her intriguing appearance, uncanny since OUAT is about magic like Charmed.
1
Reply
Flag
I thought maybe Emma's ability to perform magic was getting stronger each time. The first protection spell she cast was a piece of cake to break, then the first chalk line a bit harder, then the final chalk line took a lot of dark magic to break. Omg, I can't believe I'm actually arguing that this episode made sense - either proof that it was an excellent ep or that I've finally drunk the koolaid! :-0
2
Reply
Flag
first time around she had regina helping her
Reply
Flag
Yup, first time both she AND Regina took out the shield in like a couple of fireballs.

For the second one, Regina had to leave to rescue Cora's heart. Though I don't recall if they both tried for a few seconds before she left.

Just because 2 people took X seconds to do something, doesn't mean 1 person will take 2*x seconds. By yourself, it may take you weeks/months to bend a carbon steel rod into a pretzel with your bare hands because you're just not strong enough to get passed the rod's strength. But put a few people together and it might just hours.
Reply
Flag
ok! So it takes Rumple days to die, but Cora just a few seconds...I am devastated Cora was the best, now all we have left is Regina and (steamy) Hook. Let's hope Rumple doesn't kill him to.
5
Reply
Flag
I imagine the candle transferred what was killing Rumple at the exact "place" it was to Cora. So, Rumple was moments away from dieing, transferred just in time to have Cora die instead. Which Rumple was close to dieing, the Dagger showed that only part of the 'n' was left of his name on it, which means he was close enough for that to be a plausible conclusion to why she died so fast.
5
Reply
Flag
Agreed
Reply
Flag
This episode had a serious time line issue! If Rumple was already the dark one when Cora was young, wouldn't Belfire be way older than Regina? How would Neil/Belfire be the same age or so close in age to Emma when he would really be older than Regina?
Reply
Flag
He pointed out the fact that he'd be a couple hundred years old if he had come straight here. He mentioned it in the last episode when rumple got stabbed and he said he could steer the ship.
2
Reply
Flag
Probably Bael showed up in this world but got scooped up as a Lost Boy by Peter Pan and spent several hundred years not aging in Neverland, then came back with Pixie Dust-- excuse me, Tamara.
1
Reply
Flag
No. Remember that Bae knows who Capt Hook is. That means he's been living in NeverLand for quite some times.(he said so last episode or so) so that's why he still looks young when in fact, he's a few centuries old.
1
Reply
Flag
Neverland.
1
Reply
Flag

3 points and other question?
1. I don't think the make up artist got rumples make up wrong, it is more a way to show that as he falls in love with cora he becomes more human like.
2. Cant Regina break the spell bringing her mother back to life, as Emma did with Henry? (true loves kiss).
3. the need for Cora's heart to be in her was part of the spell switch one life for another,
3
Reply
Flag
My only weird bit was, I THOUGHT in this depiction Rumple was more toad-like. More bumps and warts and things.

But in other/past appearances he was more like "Yogurt" from "Space Balls" Mostly just gold painted with some minor details. Or at least, not as many bumps/warts.
Reply
Flag
#2 only worked for Henry because it was a sleeping spell. Cora's straight-up dead now.
6
Reply
Flag
Best episode of the season!
4
Reply
Flag
I wanted to be disgusted whenever Rumple and Cora made out...but then I remembered that Rose McGowan spent 3 years on the arm of Marilyn Manson.
9
Reply
Flag
you know whats funny in this episode ?
that diaper the baby is wearing
i didnt know they made pampers in fairy tale land
7
Reply
Flag
I forgive that, I mean it's a baby, and it's "working"...
1
Reply
Flag
its 10 second scene .. how many cuts the director have to shout before the baby crap herself ?

they could have at least cover the diaper !
but noooo .. she had to lift the baby up like simba and Rafiki in lion king to show the diaper !
1
Reply
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
First things first, I never felt sorry for Cora at any point. Plenty of people have started out being poor and risen to higher social levels without resorting to becoming power-hungry sociopaths. The one I feel sorry for is Regina whose mother, like many, lived her dreams vicariously through her child. But it was nice to get to see Cora's backstory and see how she first met Rumple and where her lust for power came from. I was surprised that she was able to outsmart Rumple so easily by saying she'd run away with him and then getting him to change the terms of her "contract" with him, I supposed he's not the master of trickery after all. Not that he'd ever admit that to anyone. Speaking of Rumple, I liked the scenes with him and Bae/Neal. They felt somewhat disingenuous because it was so out of character for him to be so emotional, but when it comes to dying 10 seconds after you found your long-lost son I guess I can let slide. I hope Neal will stay in Storybrooke because it'd be good for Henry to have his dad around, actually it would be good for the whole family to get to be together for a while. Except Regina. She deserves nothing at this point in time. But I suspect she'll be grieving for her mother/plotting revenge against Snow for a while. I can tell it's going to be something big. I want to find out what's been happening to Hook all this time and how he plans to get back to Storybrooke from NYC with no ship and no cash. Maybe he'll have to thumb it, that could be an interesting story I think that Rumple will still have his revenge though.
More+
7
Reply
Flag
I'm kind of hoping that Emma will get her head on straight and take Henry to live OUT of Storybrook so he can at least have a father and a mother without these magical feuds. I foresee emotional moments: Emma nobly rejecting the possibility of having real parents in her life; Snow deciding that she'd rather be with Emma and Henry outside of SB, even if it means she'll lose Charming and her memory and become MM again; Charming making a characteristically bad decision to give up Snow and stay in Storybrooke to guard the beans for 100 years from Regina so he can eventually return to what's left of FTL....
Reply
Flag
Regina would have to be taken out first. As she was never effected by the spell, she could leave Storybrooke at any time and follow Emma and Henry to their new home.
Reply
Flag
It's amazing how in almost every episode the writers first get Regina and Snow closer together and then put a grenate between them to blow them far apart of each other.
I'm glad Cora is now out of the way, she was in control way too much leaving Regina to act like a little girl, while before Cora arrived, Regina was a powerfull woman (superbly played by Lana Parilla).
5
Reply
Flag
1. Age doesn't matter with Rumple. But he is a generation older than Belle, really. I ship it like a mofo.
2. I DON'T CARE, I LOVE HIM AND HIS BLUSHING CHEEKS AND TOTES ADORBS SMILE, KAY?
3. I wonder if she thought of Neal and Rumple when she tried to protect each other.
4. When he was in it. The creepy laugh really did a number on me.
5. Hmm...
6. OH
MY
GOSH
YES
1
Reply
Flag
i watched episode lst nght wat bout yall
Reply
Flag
Great episode all around but I find myself a little torn
on one hand I really feel proud of Snow for finally doing something smart for once and get Regina to put Cora's heart and not her usually dumb innocent self
but on the other hand I hate to see Cora die I mean she was a really good character and I was hoping to find out more about her I hope we see more back flashes of her in the following episodes (I really think the story we saw does not explain how she became so powerful if she said goodbye to Rumple so quickly I thought he would teach her everything about magic)
1
Reply
Flag
There's a lot more back story there- I'd love to see more of Rumplestiltskin and young Cora (hint, hint) Would Belle be jealous if she found out?
Reply
Flag
1. I guess because he's immortal thats why he doesnt age.
2. Charming is just charming thats it. lol
3. kinda confuse with this one. so if someone who wants revenge on someone and just think of ways to kill that person or what not then they become magical?
4. first time I saw him was in the full monty and for some reason I couldn't forget his face. he gets better with age :)
5. i want one haha
6. I liked it very much. so where back from the beginning then Regina hating Snow. nice! :)

So is Regina Rumple's daughter??? O_O
2
Reply
Flag
The writers were interviewed at Paleyfest and said Regina is definitely not Rumple's child. Thank God. At that point, Regina would have been Henry's adoptive mother, his aunt, and his step-grandmother.
4
Reply
Flag
I've been repeating the three things that Regina would be to Henry and although I obviously understand the adoptive mother I've been running though the family tree and I'm apparently having a brain melt because I can't figure out how she could be the other two if the above where true.
I also sound like a crazy person cause I'm sitting at the laptop drawing invisible lines in the air and mumbling random names!
2
Reply
Flag
I agree it is confusing at times, these characters have all gone through their promiscuous phase.

Ok so if Rumple had been Regina's dad then Regina would have also been Henry's aunt because she would have been Bae's half-sister (and of course Bae is Henry's father).

Regina is actually Henry's step- GREAT grandmother because she was married to the King, Snow's father and Henry's great-grandfather.

That last one doesn't have anything to do with Rumple so maybe that's where some of the confusion came from? Honestly, this whole show tends to confuse me on a weekly basis, so I don't blame you :)
2
Reply
Flag
Oh right I completely forgot about Bae when I was trying to figure it out. It's late though so I should probably just quit before the sun comes up again and my brain becomes compete mush!
2
Flag
that would have been a little messed up for her to be all of those things, ha ha.
Reply
Flag
Eh. For me Rumplestiltskin remains the biggest hypocrite on this show. At least Regina was actually shown trying to change her ways and whatnot, Rumple always been and basically still is a selfish, magic-obsessed kinda jerk. Just cause he's good around Belle doesn't make him an entirely good person. I hate how we're supposed to treat him like an anti-hero now.

Also, when is anyone gonna tell Bae that he killed his mother?
7
Reply
Flag
Rumple is also cursed to be "The Dark One" I doubt that title is just there for giggles. Between power corrupting and the title, I think it really is an up-hill battle to do anything good. Sure, as he mentioned... he's still a weak coward... he's just using the magic as a crutch.

He's done a lot of rotten things: probably WAY more than Regina and Cora combined. But they're not cursed.

I agree, it's kind of hard to see him as an anti-hero. He might be an ally now but he's not exactly "good" However, if Belle is able to break his curse he might become more of a normal person again.
Reply
Flag
Bae will find out once Hook tells him. I mean, really, I don't see anyone else telling him about Mila's death other than Hook.
3
Reply
Flag
I don't think Regina was actually trying to change. She put up a good facade for Henry and everyone who wanted to think she was trying to change, but I don't think she can. I don't think any differently of Rumple now than I did before. He's still a wild card in that you never know what's going to happen next or who he's going to manipulate into being his ally.
1
Reply
Flag
I agree with GrimAriel; Regina was trying to change before her mother got hold of her again. I'm not sure Regina believed her mother's version of events, or bought into her schemes- I kinda think she just wanted the mother-daughter bond that Cora was promoting. And what Snow took from Regina was the chance for that relationship to ever exist. While telling her that it could happen- no wonder Regina is pissed! Snow seems to have learned something from Henry...
2
Reply
Flag
If she was doing it purely for Henry, then why did we get all those private scenes of her struggling alone in her home? The purpose of those private scenes are to show what's going on inside the character's head. It was very clear that she'd been struggling. Rumple, on the other hand, never struggled with his "magic problem" once, never without Belle in the scene.
7
Reply
Flag
Load More Comments

Like TV.com on Facebook