Orphan Black: Get In Here and Discuss "Unconscious Selection"!

Some of you have made it very clear that you want more Orphan Black coverage on the site, and I do not blame you—I'm currently catching up on the series and it's great! Also great: The civilized and intelligent discussion about the show in last week's FTW vs. WTF comments, which inspired us to give you the open thread you've been asking for! So please consider this story a dedicated space to talk about this week's episode, "Unconscious Selection." 

Also: I've made it through five episodes so far and by the time you read this there's a decent chance I'll be up-to-date, so if everything lines up correctly, I will be weighing in on next week's finale. So to those of you who wandered in here and are wondering what the big deal is about this show because you haven't seen it, now would be a good time to check it out.

Alright, have at it!

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I'm just contributing to add to our general cause of keeping this on the front page until after Saturday....so here is a comment about the episode synopsis for the season finale. And heck the commercial for it. One of the sentences says, Sarah faces down the enemy. So, my question...they don't usually write these just before the episode airs, so I am going to presume it was before this one. I can't figure out which enemy Sarah is facing down...I mean, she clearly is going to be busy with Art and the police next week and as much as I don't like Ang, Art is clearly not the enemy. I know there are clips of her walking into that office, so I guess we are clearly identifying Lekee and them as the enemy? My first other thought was they were still talking about Helena.

Then, Helena seems imprisoned again...I fear in attempting to help, she returns to Tomas with 'proof' that Sarah isn't an imposter but she as just as real as Helena is because they are twins. Then Tomas somehow captures her again and informs her that is even more reason for them to have Kira. I can only hope that Siobhan does actually have legal guardianship of Kira, so the police don't take her when they arrest Sarah, and that Siobhan is there to stop him.

The actual thing that bothered me the most was Alison saying to one of the others that she doesn't want answers anymore and just wants her life back. I am worried because it strikes me that she might be able to help the most since Cosima appears sick and Sarah will likely be prisoner.

Oh, and I know there were some early or even pre season concepts that some of the twins had cystic fibrosis, proven by the German. As Cosima tested them both for that and it didn't come up, and since the German had someone very close on her tail (based on the destruction of her hotel room) and Cosima might have caused some panic by pushing Delphine away (though not far) that they might have been poisoned or even have something in their system that there monitor keeps tabs on that gets set off when they separate from their monitors. Although, and I know they haven't had a lot of time to talk over things, but Paul would have mentioned.
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I watched Cosima closely and she is sniffing and hoarse when she broke up with Delphine, but I thought that was just from crying.

I probably won't get to see ep10 for another day.
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"I can't figure out which enemy Sarah is facing down". Haha I know - doesn't she face down an enemy every week?

I didn't notice Cosima was sick - thanks for that. I'll look out for that when I watch it again today.
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When "spoiler" happened last week, I screamed so loud that DH came running into the room to make sure I was ok…"just a .TV scene dear, sorry". And how they resolved "spoiler" this week deepened the intrigue!
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on the main page there is a section saying something like most popular articles but they all have less comments then this page....do they mean most popular articles written/posted between time x and time y?

I don't suppose this can be pinned to the main page until the review of the finale comes out....those freaking arrested development articles (4 were on the main page yesterday)--lol! Great for AD fans but really--four separate articles. Well, if there had been 4 separate articles on Orphan Black I wouldn't blink an eye so kudos to the AD fans (now get out of here..lol, j/k).

I can't believe how wonderful all the comments have been...even when someone posted they didn't like the show, people were respectful and the original commenter who has said they didn't like the first episode went back and watched a couple more. How wonderful that people were so nice and even the non-fan(s) tried a couple more episodes (which they didn't have to since we can all have different tastes...good on them for being so open-minded. This site has some of the best users/commenters! I love that there haven't been any flame wars or trolls--this site is very good about that.

We fans should be proud! Look at the polls!
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This show gets better with every episode, and it started off incredibly well. It's going to suck waiting for the next season after this Saturday.
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Best new show (so far) of 2013.
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Just want to comment and say this series is amazing and I love we get to discuss things now.
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Most commented post at the moment on the site and only 9 people did not like it in the poll. A post about kittens or nuns would get more dislikes, That should say something about the show. Pretty good thinking whoevers idea it was to put up a discussion page!
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Remember, these comments are for the whole show, 9 episodes so far. To compare with another show, eg The Americans, you'd have to add up the number of comments for each episode.
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who wants a cat if you can have a great tv-show. no hair, no potty-training, no expenses for food, no scratching - I'll take OB over a cat any day :D

Well...and I don't really have ANY use for a nun :D:D
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Full of intelligent surprises. Men and women will have interest in this show. One of the best on TV ever. I never expected the twins and birth mother. Wow...... wonder about Allison and the science clone, are they twins too. The plot thickens, and Fe is a marvelous actor.
Along with Sarah aka all others, wow, can she act or what, fabulous, hard to remember she is the same person playing all of them sometimes. FANTASTIC
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So, I randomly looked up an interview with Tatiana Marsely (?) just because I was curious if she ever actually used her own voice because toward the last few episodes, I started to guess, and I was right! Cosima is actually pretty close to the way she actually speaks.
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I know, I know we are in the worst week to judge this, but look at the number of comments!!
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keep it up everyone;-)
Yesterday there were 4 Arrested Development articles on the main page--sorry to any AD fans but OB needs to stay on the main page until the review of the finale comes out! I hope they do a review of the finale!!
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Well I just spent an hour denying sleep to read all of the 190 comments... Really good stuff you guys. Thanks to Tim for allowing us the space and a big round of applause to all the fans going into depth about the show and the science.
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I ran across this show about a month ago and started watching it..It is so good and different. Have to say Felix if my most favorite person on this show. He is always making me laugh..and yeah fetch me something gay remark was hysterical...Poor nutty Helena I feel sorry for that fruit cake. No wonder she is the way she it....The science one bugs me...but the soccer mom one is funny...I really like this show and hope it stays on awhile...But Helena cutting the guys tail off really got me...
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About Helena, it is not very often that we get to see a woman being a serial killer - that gives points to the show as well, as this character is quite remarkeable.
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I find it hard to imagine Helena being trained to use a sniper rifle. We have never seen her with one, and all the evidence that points to her being the sniper is circumstantial. I wouldn't rule it out, but it always niggles at me.
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I'm a bit late but here are some things I love about the episode
- Kira the Indestructible!
- Loved the elevator music while Alison cleaned Fe's apartment because of course she would = A whole drawer for drug paraphernalia and washing the sex toys haha
- Felix being Allison's wingman "I need to change. Fetch me something gay."
- Tomas is insane and locking up Helena in a cage is clearly going to be a bad move.
- Mrs. S with a shotgun
An intervention?... This is bullshit
Hello, Felix, Gay friend.
Acting Coach
Oh that's perfectly fine here
Which one?
- Glad to see Cosima grow a pair
- Good to see Felix and Alison bonding. Sharsies? This is backstabbing 101.
- Alison bringing the FIRE at the intervention.
- That woman on the phone with Leeki was definitely the Original
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I would like to encourage those that liked the series to like it on Facebook. I have and they sent me a link to claim for prices in items signed by Tatiana herself.Being from another continent makes it impossible for me to apply for the presents , but I am sure you can and would enjoy owning something signed by Tatiana in her moment of glory. Also the online BBCA page on Orphan black has great pages on cloning and related human "enhancements". They seem to consider the Clones as a Hive which is interesting. I am thinking of writing a review on whether it is indeed a Hive or a Gestalt for her page here if I find the time.Still, this opens yet another interesting interrogation and perspectives.
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Liked on Facebook, hope it helps promotion :) And yes, there are several interesting questions that can be developped here, I'm so curious to see where the show will decide to go...
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Btw, these are weekly tweet sweeps, but since I have no smartphone or twitter account I can't apply. But it is great to be able to own something signed by Tatiana. I am curious what we will bw able to discuss as well. :)
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Yea I'm going to have to make a twitter account just for this show... I tried one other time but just saw no point in the whole twitter experience
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It would be better just to start using #orphanblack tags on twitter during the show as starting next year nielson said they will use twitter trends to supplement normal ratings.
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Good cal thanks. They have some great screen grabs on there for anyone who can't seem to get enough.
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LUV this SHOW! And I think it's awersome that Tatiana Maslany has been nominated for a Critic's Choice award...in a category with actresses like Claire Danes and Julianna Margulies...says a lot about how she is truly the heart of this show and how you forget she is playing so many different characters. I am so glad I decided to pvr a few, before starting the series because after one episode I wanted more more more! And was able to watch several back to back to get my fix.

OH CANADA...Thank U for Orphan Black and Continuum. These shows are why we need to #SAVEBCFILM
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When I started watching the show, I was worried because it seemed like they were doing the entire cop thing. (See Continuum) where the main focus is more the cop stuff,, but it quickly stopped being that, and I enjoy the show a lot.
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When I first started watching, I saw the pilot, decided that it might me interesting and pvr'ed it from then on.
After seeing the second episode, i still didn't get where the show was going and the clone thing wasn't revealt until ep3 so I was kind of lost and irritated. So basically the following ep's all went to pvr without beeing watched. I only just came back to watching when ep8 aired. That reminded me of the show and I went back and rewatched the whole thing. Thats when the whole concept became really clear and it made it to the top of my list :D
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I watched very few British shows, not even downton abbey and not a fan of Dr Who either. I quite liked last year's Hunted as I loved the story of a female spy (ALIAS and NIKITA).. I admit it was the clones story that attracted me to the show but I was hooked since the pilot and gets hooked till now! Though I have never heard of Tatiana Maslany now I think she is one of the best actress ever. It is hard enough playing twins but she is playing four characters and she really managed to make me think of this 4 person as individuals. I almost forgot she is playing all 4 of them every time I watched the show. This is very largely due to her. I do not know if someone else could pull it off.

I started seeing Jordan Gavaris as yet another dude playing a gay dude on TV but he really grows on me too and now I simply loved his wit and banter with sara and alison. The rest of the cast is great too and Évelyne Brochu is HOT as hell ! I think the only actor which I think is not reallly good is Kevin Hanchard as Art. I think someone else may make Art more likable.

The concept is great and in many series, it ends there. Shows like Revolution and ALCATRAZ had good concept but the series never make it work and ran out of ideas after a while. So far Orphan Black just keep surprising us and it seems it has many weapons in the armory. They just keep opening new exciting doors after tying up other loose ends.

*SPOILERS* for those who have not watched do not read below.

I am betting the "guy" on the top of Dr. Keekie is another Tatiana Maslany playing her fifth character ! I am so looking forward to the finale and season 2 !

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Just to be fair to Kevin Hanchard, I don't think he is supposed to be likeable, but that's just my take on him.
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I've changed my mind about almost every character as this show has progressed - who ever thought I'd have sympathy for Soccer Bitch? Art's gruff, but he's always been basically on Beth/Sarah's side. I think he'll turn out to be very helpful to the clones.

BTW, I noticed on the Space site there is an interview called The Evolution of Detective Art Bell, or something like that.
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the link is http://www.space.ca/article/The-Evolution-of-Art-Interview-with-Orphan-Blacks-Kevin-Hanchard .
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Thank you.
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Ok I correct myself, this is a Canadian made show ! I keep thinking it is British because the characters all had very well done (at least to me) fake English accent.
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I thought it was British too until I was corrected. I'm Australian so I find it difficult to tell the difference between US and Canadian accents. For me, the biggest clue was when Kasima said "North American" instead of "American".
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The mother did mentioned that she brought felix and sarah to the states to hide and run away from the "bad" people. So I suppose that is why the 2 actors and actress are faking a British accent to show these. Then again if they were brought up from young in the states I am not sure if they needed to. The mom spoke with a British accent too but I guess for the mom it is reasonable.
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Whoah ..3Jane; Liking The Americans and Orphan Black, another Australian with good taste (but without my ego haha).
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I have to credit my partner who has his finger on the pulse when it comes to the cream of North American TV. (I don't have your particular ego but I certainly do have mine, trust me.)
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Watching since episode 1. Clones... I am in and so far so great... Tatiana Maslany is unbelievable! I can't believe she pulls all this off. Give her whatever and she'll do it. Jordan/Felix is a cute character, I have a lot of fun watching him. I can't wait till the next episode... Awesome cliffhangers every time!
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I loved the friendship between Alison and Felix, hope to see more scenes with the two of them!
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First Felix was breaking into zits when Sarah took him to suburbia and now he's round there all the time.
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In his defence his visits do undermine it's established order; cross-dressing the kids, aiding in husband abuse and monitor spotting or turning the tables on an intervention!
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Not to mention sharesies.
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What do these names have in common? Kiera, Ciara, Kira.
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They are the same.Google it , it's worth it.
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Now, what three Canadian genre shows airing right now have a character with that name spelled in those ways.
Hint: look down.
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:)
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Continuum, Lost Girl, Orphan Black Canadian TV FTW!!!! I must confess that I found Felix' character initially irritating until I found out both Tatiana Maslany and Jordan Gavaris were Canadian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL5GTxuuckk I love the way each episode works its way to yet another cliff hanger great TV!!!
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Yep...all three of those are great shows. Canada has really been putting out quality TV.
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I am so glad I checked this show out! Absolutely one of the best sci-fi shows on television. I do hope that they aren't afraid to go further into the scientific explanations of the clones - even if they are hypothetical procedures that we aren't currently able to do.

And I love supporting a Canadian show! Though I do think they've done a good job of keeping the location somewhat ambiguous so that it could be your typical north american city. It's always fun to see Degrassi actors pop up!

Also, a little random, but did anyone else recognize Tatiana Maslany from 2030 CE? It was a sci-fi-y type show on late on YTV ages ago. I think there were test tube babies in that one too...
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Emma from "Degrassi: The Next Generation" played Paul's secretary a couple of episodes ago.

One second, I was completely objectifying her as a fine piece of tail, then, all of a sudden, I realized who she was and went "Holy shit! Emma! All grown up! MAN, AM I OLD!!!!????"

... So, yeah, too many kids shows made in Canada.
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Are you Canadian? Do you know how many kids' shows the Canadians make?

In episode 1, Sarah's on a train platform and there's an announcement about a train to NY or NYC, I forget which.
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without checking, when we saw Maggie Chen's Victim Sheet, I think it says she lived in Toronto.
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orphan black is currently best scifi show on television
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Best show on TV period regardless of genre.
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Have to agree, now that Doctor Who has tanked. Dislike the new companion very much.
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Clara wasn't the problem this year - Jenna-Louise Coleman was actually quite fine here.

No, the problem was... Moffat. Seriously, say whatever you want about Davies, he never bored me once during his tenure as Head-timelord. No other Doctor Who episodes bored me more than "Cold War" since the reboot - a complete and total snoozefest that really put me to sleep!
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I liked Moffat much more as writer than as head honcho. DON'T BLINK. There were so many boring monologues this season.
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For me orphan black is clearly scifi, while doctor who goes a lot more to the fantasy side (love it despite any doctors or companions changes!) - Continuum is not bad neither, although the rythm is a lot better in orphan black, I think. I miss something like Battlestar Galactica, though :)
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The last season went downhill fast, didn't it? Still, I'm glad Doctor Who is getting to be a kids' show again. Some of the David Tennant episodes gave my kid nightmares.

I've been watching Doctor Who for decades (generations of Australians watched it after school). While it goes through some off Doctors, off companions, and off seasons, it's overall still one of my favourite TV shows.
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You are Australian? Recommend some Australian shows to me :). I liked Underbelly, Wildboys and MasterChef Australia, willing to try anything you can throw at me!
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Couldn't agree with you more KW. That is why I like them better as well. Less gloss, more real. I hear great things about Luther but haven't got to it yet (darn golden age of television...just so much stuff & not enough time!). I liked Wallander a lot- the Krister Henriksson series, not the Kenneth Branagh version (although I liked that, too but it's a different take on the character). If you liked that then besides Varg Veum there's also Irene Huss (detective, mother & former jujitsu champion), Van Veeteren, & Maria Wern. Varg Veum is my favorite though because he's the lone wolf & separated from the system whereas the others are ensembles.

For a little more humor there's Montalbano or Inspector Coliandro. Donna Leon's Commissario Brunetti is good, too but it's an odd series: It's set in Venice but the production is German & the actors speak German lol. And after the first 3 or 4 movies they switched the main actor and the actress who plays his wife but kept everyone else the same, including their kids. It's still a pretty good series though.

If you're in the mood for something really different, try Anno 1790- a surgeon who becomes a police inspector set in Sweden in the 1700's. Or check out The Octopus- an Italian police/mob drama from the '80's. I didn't think I'd like it at first because I'm not that into mafia stuff & it's very intense- melodramatic music cues, fervent dialogue, lots of red hues. But it becomes quite compelling. Corrado Cattani is a fantastic character and Michele Placido is mesmerizing playing him.

There's a bunch more & I'm trying to catch new ones on MHz, not to mention non police-centered shows like The Crown (political drama) and so many others!
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another reason we need a "open" article pinned to the top...for recommendations by some of the users..will check out Jossjunkie's recs and others...
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Thanks JossJunkie, I dont mind Subtitles as long as the show is quality. I really liked Epistafios (HBO Latin America series) which was subtitled.

I especially like foreign police dramas more than most Americans ones as they tend to be less cheesy and set a better atmosphere (Luther, Wallander, Life of Crime) so appreciate your suggestions.
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I liked East West 101, if you're into police dramas (which if I remember correctly, you are). Interesting cases but also examines the main characters well and is a compelling study in cultural differences. The main detective is Muslim which you don't see too often.

If you don't mind subtitles there's several great foreign crime dramas I could recommend (I don't mind subtitles because I watch a lot of foreign films and tv but I know some people hate them). Varg Veum is one of my favorites. I love Varg Veum and Trond Espen Siem.
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Um...
Unfortunately Masterchef Australia is one of the things we did best.

Try Outland, a comedy series about a group of gay people who are closet sci-fi fans. It's flawed, but it really grew on me by the end.
I hope you like it, and I appreciate you asking about Australian TV.
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have you seen Rescue: Special Ops (Australian show)? I liked it a lot but I also loved the Canadian show Flashpoint.
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Thanks ElisaDiaz, Ill look it up. Ive seen pretty much everything American there is to see (literally everything) , so Ive moved on to stuff from other countries. Always needing suggestions
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I am not Australian, but there was this cool Australian show that didn't survive the first season called "This is not my life" that I think could have had a lot more followers if it had been given an international chance...
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Finally, tv.com is doing something about this show! I've been wondering if I'm the only person watching this. Tatiana is unknown to me, but she's impressing the hell out of me. She's got to be shouldering a HUGE workload to not only do so many scenes, but to be spending the time it takes to make her several different characters in multiple scenes. And speaking of her multiple characters.....one of the most impressive things about it so far is her acting combined with the wardrobe department and the writing. While you can see that all the clones look alike, it's really easy to get lost in the story and feel like they are truly different people.

I like the humor in the show as well. Alison is hilarious, even though I don't think she means to be. And Felix.....this week I laughed out loud when he told Alison "I need to get dressed. Fetch me something gay."
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Felix is just the best and that was a great Fee moment. I was just telling someone else that my favorite Fee moment was when Alison is doing her bad acting warm-ups and he says "ok...Eliza...HO-ly shit..." The way he said it just killed me!

And yes, props to the wardrobe department and others who help to differentiate the characters so well. I saw an interview with Tatiana where she said the continuity people help keep her on track with the roles. Like if she makes a certain gesture they tell her if it's more akin to a different character. I'm sure that's helpful because it would be tough keeping all that straight in your head!
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I have to point out that there is a natural ocurrence called parthenogenesis without fertilization ,an asexual reproduction, and the outcome is always female. While unheard off in human reproduction, we cannot fathom what genetical research can comeup with.I am simply refereing to this proposition for those who might believe that no male sperms where involved in the creation of the Clones. Also, it has been suggested that parthenogenesis can be part of cloning at the stage of stem cells, then replace the genetic package of depleted ovums and inserted into surrugate mothers.Still each woman have their own management of their womb and it all depends on the diet,and other external conditions. If you research this, you will find that in mothers who have given birth to seperate set of twins in a lifetime, that the twin pairs are identical to each other but not necessarily to the other pair, and vice versa.
I'd like to finish by saying that I am extremely proud of us. This is the best page of comments I ever participated in.Thank you all for enriching me amd making this a wonderful experience.
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This is kind of why I really hope next season there is a regular post to discuss these things because I have a feeling next season is going to be much more science oriented (I am making a storyline assumption here, that Sarah is questioned but Dyad is able to pull enough strings to get her released once Paul reports in that this happened and Dyad pulls in the other Orphans, maybe using Sarah's predicament with Alison and just appealing to Cosima's science side - somehow Sarah is able to escape through Siobhan, and heck, maybe Helena's help - maybe at expense of Helena's life and next season is Sarah trying to save Alison and Cosima, but to find out that Cosima and Paul are sort of willing captives. Meanwhile, we introduce Carleton who we might find out, like Maggie Chen, figured out the bad of Dyad but didn't become religious about it who joins up with Sarah, Siobhan and Felix - and someone bad manages to learn about Kira).
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I think the triumphant page here is going to convince TV.Com that an OB page is a must, so I am not really worried on that front. BBCA released next week's finale clip so it's not really a spoiler that Helena will return and kill Tomas, which leaves her without support and without much of a choice to recontact DYAD.Sarah will be arrested by Art and the police and this is where the suspence really lies.
As for the science, it's pretty much all over the internet and concerns clones, transhumanism,cyborg research, then all the weird world of enhancement as piercings and the such in which people add metal objects under the skin and it can become quite gross.If you or anyone so wishes, you have the time until season two to catch up on those debates, which are central in today's scientific community.I think this is precisely why this series is ground-breaking , because it does introduce many to these debates, some of which are still not known to the public at large. I myself would not have known about it had I not been the dedicated science fiction fan I am. I don't just read SF novels and stories but I research them, which is part of my temperement.
My instinct tells me that Redhead will first appear as yet another Clone and cause mischief from within the group.Now, this is another question that will have to be tackled by the fandom.BBCA represents the Clones as a Hive and I am more on the proposition that they a Gestalt. So what is the group's dynamic will play a central role on how they shelter and deal with the menaces coming their way.We will have to pay then very special attention at the relationship between Sarah and Helena.
I also suggest you google Dyadic, and you will discover that sociologically it is the smallest social unit of extremely close ties. They will tell you that a Dyad is someone like Socrates and Plato, but also twins. It has also different meaning in mathematics, biology and other forms of communication.
I think season two will be excellent.
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Why else it would be necessary is that, well, I have tried to post on lots of sites about other shows and honestly, most people on tv.com are the most respectful and polite to each other. So like for me, I wouldn't be nervous to be wrong on some science based theory here because someone will politely and respectfully correct me.

I honestly wonder about the redhead whether she is just another clone (there was apparently a casting call for the clone role and one of the names was Karen, though that could have been Katya's name and they just changed it) or if she was the primary genetic material. My issue with her being a clone is that, well, she seems a little young for Lekee to be one of her underlings and it would be weird of Dyad to put one of them in charge. I mean unless she was basically laboratory raised.

I actually wouldn't be worried about any of the clones who come under Dyad's control as long as they are allowed to interact and Alison is there. She clearly has felt a real bond to not only Sarah, but to Sarah's family and I think that she will be the force in the group that the redhead really needs to deal with...and well, she is kind of scary. I actually would be more worried that Cosima or Paul accidentally reveal Kira's existence so that Dyad comes after Sarah and her family as hard as Sarah and the rest go after Dyad.

How many clones do you think there actually are? Delphine seemed shocked that there were ten, and I figure she knew more than Paul about everything since she worked for Dyad. Lekee seemed a little surprised at the ten named, but I wasn't sure if that was he knew the names of all the monitored clones, knew one was missing and didn't know anything about the other name but that Delphine didn't name any others. I mean, in reality, I imagine they are only limited by the number of accents that Tamara can actually do and pull off for an extended period of time.

Randomly, the thing I could speak to...I am not sure what they could arrest Sarah for that justifies a swat team. I mean, yes, they have Katya's body, but all the evidence so far is leading to that she has the same fingerprints as both Sarah and Beth. But that still leads to the triplet theory and that the third triplet probably was the one driving the car when Katya was shot (I know they know that), so that makes Sarah a material witness. Okay, she stole Beth's purse and impersonated a police officer...not exactly huge expense crimes. She might have stolen money from the bank and committed fraud, but, Alison actually could get her out of that by saying Beth stole it from her and she needed Sarah to get it back. So...I know this is Canada and not the U.S., but usually you can only hold a person for a certain period of time without charging them and the theft and impersonation are the only ones that I would think a prosecutor is comfortable going forward with before they sort out exactly who the dead person is. That would have her bailed out, heck, maybe ankle monitored so they know where she is, but she wouldn't be likely limited.
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the involvement of the swat team doesn't make sense (yet...hope they explain why they needed swat) but even if they don't I'm still infatuated with this show!
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John Fawcett, one of the co-creators said in a recent interview to expect more clones.I just hope there will not be too many clones which will ruin everything.Sarah was unexpected for Leekie because he was unaware that she had an identical twin in Helena.After some thought I am starting to be of mind that Helena, as an extra clone was given to the Church by mistake, in the sense that hiding her existence may have been the very reson why the Prometheans found out of the DYAD experiment.
The police swat team was a response to the death of the German and making sure that everyone concerned with Sarah would be arrested.Sarah does not have to worry for Beth's death per se, as you well analyzed, but for the death of the German Clone.
If Leekie is indeed a minor cog in the DYAD organization, then we really don't know if him being a nice guy will change anything. We will have to wait until Redhead is uncovered to see what they are all about.
Usually, these shows try to infiltrate the grounds of the organization early on, but here we still have no idea of what they are really all about outside from what Leekie has given us to believe.
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Ooh, maybe OB is even more feminist than we all thought.
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fascinating!
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Black Orphan is my new kolto.
One of the most brilliant ideas in serialized television almost perfectly paced and confidently executed with a fantastic cast - this can go on forever.
Either Maslany is the best actress known to mankind or they did clone an augmented version of Dr Nadeshda Srikova in 1982 with 6 versions having the "actress package deluxe 2.0".
And what happened with Sarah's child, Kira? She seems to have quite some abilities... The crash was brutal and I'm 100% agreeing with Sarah that it had to be fatal. Augments unleashed?
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Maybe that was the point of showing that crash; to show that Kira should be dead. Someone below pointed out that her Aunt Helena heals pretty well too, and I keep thinking of how Mrs S said Sarah was "a survivor".
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yep, should of been fatal but she is the "next step" in evolution imo. Not only does she have rapid healing she also seems to "know" certain things such as Alison was not her mother and that Helena meant her no harm... There is something special about Kira!
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Orphan Black really is top-notch...
Manson + Fawcett have been working on the show for roughly a decade...and it shows!

It's rare to find a show that is as fast paced as OB and that doesn't drag reveals for half a season. It's also rather unusual for a show with such a serious subject-matter to have that many comedy-elements in it....without them feeling forced (or flat out wrong)!

But the most compelling part of OB -for me personally- are the characters!
All of the "main-players" are very well written and layered. They aren't just back and white. Even the "good guys" have done some seriously fucked up things....and that makes them feel so much more life-like.

I really can't wait for the finale and for the next few season(s) of this gem!
I'm 100% certain, that the producers/showrunners/writers will be able to keep the quality of this season, since they already worked on OB for a decade beforehand!
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All right! Thanks Tim.

I noticed the closed circuit footage in episode 1 and it's finally come home to roost (godspeed, Art). It just goes to show, everything in OB is there for a reason. Conversely, they don't usually suffer from overkill so I'm still wondering why we had to watch Kira get hit by a car in episode 9.

I love OB but I think it suffers a little from inconsistency. I wish some of the good stuff crammed into episode 10 could have been sprinkled into the lacklustre episodes 8 and 9.
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"wondering why we had to watch Kira get hit by a car"--so show us how brutal it was so that we would recognize the miraculous rapid healing of Kira (GCS of 3 with what appeared to be massive internal injuries yet she miraculously "healed" exceptionally fast without any real intervention other then iv fluids). It was brutal and shocking but it had purpose imo.
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I watched part of episode 8 again this morning, looking for something else, and I saw the part where Leekie visited Olivier in hospital. When Leekie said his farewell, he told Olivier to "rest", and then with great gravity, "and heal".
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lol, HEEL...I missed that...thanks for pointing it out!
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Wow. I don't think I've ever read a comment thread with that much scientific discussion going on. Great to see, as it makes for a much more interesting read.
I even learned a couple of things about biology when checking up on some of the comments.

And no flame wars :)
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Loving this show more and more each episode! Tatiana Maslany for the win!

Not sure I have anything new to add, just my own personal take... I think the redhead is going to be the original from which the others are exact genetic clones (meaning no sperm from Dr. Leekie, although as the "pioneer" of the process, he would have a fatherly demeanor with the clones). I believe that Sarah and Helena are twins resulting from a zygote that split into two once implanted in the host woman from Cape Town, meaning that both have the exact same "barcode" and whatever genetic modification that may imply (rapid healing??). Kira is most likely the further evolutionary (neolutionary) step in this process -- think about how quickly Helena, her mother Sarah's twin/clone, has healed from having an iron rod shoved through her mid-section - though not as rapidly or perfectly as Kira has healed from the car accident. The twin thing is why Helena feels a connection with Sarah that she didn't feel with any of the other clones and why Kira could sniff out Allison immediately, but accepted Helena as just like mommy, even though they look the least alike of any of the clones, due to Helena's torture and hair.

That's all for now... can't wait for next week's episode and can't believe it's the season finale already! Season 2 can't get here soon enough!
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I wonder if Helena's healing abilities have anything to do with her self-mutilation.
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great points! Who do you think donated the sperm and egg to make the "original"--her regular parents? and then some of her stem cells were harvested and genetical modified...but how would her stem cells create clones (zygotes that were implanted into the surrogate)?
I agree with your thoughts on Kira and her reactions to the others.
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Thanks! Just a couple of weeks ago, an article came about about scientists finally creating embryonic (pluripotent) stem cells from human skin cells using an unfertilized egg (although there were apparently some errors in the study). Putting a future-tech slant on this - take a fertilized egg and remove the nuclear DNA, replacing with the donor material. Throw in custom gene sequencing for genetic enhancement and barcoding and voilà - Orphan Black! Clearly this is not current science, but one path that they have been working towards in cloning efforts. And this is sci-fi, after all. :)
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love it! that is perfect for sci-fi!!
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Did Sarah and Helena's bio mom say that she came down from Cape Town? Or did I hear wrong?
Brilliant episode once again, love Helena!
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you heard right.yay for you.
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Thanks! Yay for me indeed! She had a horrible accent....
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I haven't reached "Unconscious Selection" yet, as I've just seen a couple episodes but I already love this show. I was thinking tvdotcom could make one of those "are the two shows the same show" pieces. Just for fun I was thinking about Orphan Black and Banshee, another great surprise this year.

So we have this person who has been away for a long while and when they are back, they witness the death of a police officer. Naturally, they have the brilliant idea of taking the victim's place. As this person has long been on the wrong side of the law, they would not be the most indicated person to impersonate an officer of the law. So, they have to improvise, and do the police work in their own creative way so they won't be caught in their masquerade. But impersonating a cop is not easy. There's a fair amount of violence and death, and this person's life is at stake.

At some point they just want to get away from it all: the pressure is just too great! The thing is, there's a large amount of money obtained illegally they want to get their hands on, so they have to stick around at least a while longer so they can collect the money and leave. But soon they realize there are people who depend on them and decide to stay and give up money.

Well, at least this person has friends. One of them who helps them a great deal, is a gay man. This man is smart and witty in his own way, and has a problem adapting to social circle where he feels he doesn't belong, has a good heart. The protagonist also crosses paths with a surly black man who turns out to be helpful, though may cause some trouble.

The story also adds a touching aspect because of a complicated mother and daughter relationship. The mother, who has a foreign origin, has a shady and mysterious past, and doesn't want the daughter to find out about it because that would simply shatter her world. And she wants to prove she can be a good mother in spite of her past of wrongdoings.

So, are these two shows the same or not?
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I have to agree with you on your basic premise: Both Banshee and OB are positive suprises and have both impressed with their very own style and story.

I stumbled onto both these shows more ore less by accident, but I have to say, both have been great from premiere to final!
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I see your point and in its spirit, you are right. Banshee goes then straight thriller and OB goes SF.They are very different shows almost from the get go, but your points do cover the fact that premises can change so completely on very few details.Good job.
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I haven't seen Banshee, but while the the one premise sounds similar (taking the identity of someone), they don't really sound similar to me.
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Of course I was joking. In the end these are very different shows. But every single plot element I mentioned is something both Orphan Black and Banshee have in common, and not just the premise loosely described as "taking someone's identity". If you'd seen Banshee (which I really recommend you do, it is great!) you'd agree with me.
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It does sound interesting. I may give it a shot next weekend.
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What did the doctor see on Kira's ultrasound? It seemed liked something abnormal from the reaction of the nurse but he didn't say anything when he walked out of the room.
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What we saw is the instant healing of Kira as there was a "dark" spot that closed right before our eyes.By the time the physician was there to look at it, she had already healed.
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I think this was it, but not sure why the doctor found it normal in any case :) he did not mention anything else to the mother...
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Yet Sarah told Cosima over the phone that "the doctors were stunned".
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I think it was more the fact that she didn't have any internal injuries. No broken bones...no internal bleeding, etc. She was basically fine.
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1. So now we have twin clones! That explains the connection Psycho (aka as Helena) felt to Sara from day 1.

2. Poor Delphine. Just as we all predicted she fell in love with Cosima. Fingers crossed for Colphine (or is it Desima?) to return in season 2 (it's so great we will get season 2!)

3. Kira - she's "a lizard". I really liked that plot twist. After previous episode I expected Kira to either die or go into a coma. So big surprise here.

4. Soccer Mom - I love her! I want Orphan Black spin-off dedicated entirely to her! The best scene in the whole episode was the one in which she was cleaning Felix' studio and then telling him about drugs / sex toys. Brilliant!

5. Mrs. S - with each episode I love her more and more!

I can't believe season 1 will end next week! I want more! It's not fair!
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I hope we get a flashback episode about Beth or a couple of them...I would be very curious how she found out about Maggie Chen, and why she killed herself. Maybe in season 2.
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Or Katja. If only so they can play Nancy Sinatra singing "These Boots are Made for Walking" in German again. This show has the best soundtrack as well!
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Me too and sort of hand in hand with that I kind of want some flashbacks to whateverMaggie and Thomas did to Helena. I guess not only to justify Beth's murder of Maggie but to understand how the guilt drove her to suicide and then not warning either Alison or Cosima about Maggie and what she might represent.
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In some interviews, the role of Maggie Chen is talked about by producer and co-creator, John Fawcett (Spartacus) as central. I admit I have not paid much attention, but I think that we will be privvy to her role soon enough.From what I gathered Helena telling Sarah about it, I'll have to rewatch the show to understand what exactly they said to each other regarding that.
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I think Chen helped create the clones but then "saw the light" and switched to the Promethian side of the argument
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If I recall correctly in this past episode Tomas says that one of the Promethian infiltrated the study and it was Maggie Chen
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Correct...that's what Helena told Sarah, but I'm curious how Beth got wind of her, and why she killed her. I'm also curious why Beth killed herself.
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yep, I want to know the answers to those two questions. Beth was on all those psych meds and I want to know more about her history also (and why she killed Chen and committed suicide). Good points/questions and I hope the finale answers some of the questions. I can't believe the finale is next~then we have to wait forever for season 2.
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Sorry Felix and co, but Orphan Black is in essence a one woman show ;D Tatiana Maslany, best actress on TV ! !
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Helena is my favorite clone (The entire cage scene was heartbreaking), and my favorite performance by Tatiana Maslany so far
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Agree, I hope if she plays the characters in any kind of order she does Helena last, then the dark rings under the eyes would be less difficult to achieve but then Helena is probably the most physical role too. Sheesh! Such a good job, I never fail to feel the tension and stay hooked even where she plays one clone impersonating another, amazingly understated hard work.
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Brilliant episode. Amazing revelation about Helena and Sarah. Great acting by Tatiana as always...the intervention scene was hilarious as was Alison cleaning Felix's apartment.

I do think it too long for Art to go to the subway. Glad he finally went there, and got the footage of Beth's suicide.

I'm not sure on the fingerprint thing. I know Cosima said that while their fingerprints aren't the same they are close enough that the police could match them if one of them was in the system which Sarah was.

Anyone else think the mysterious woman that Leekie called is the orginal?
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I'm only up to EP6 and maybe they reveal more, but I thought Sara is the original. Of Sara, Beth and Allison, Sara is the only one who could get pregnant.
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That´s either the real scientist behind the whole thinks cause to me leeky is not charismatic enought, he is a minion or she is the original, the 29 years older original or she is both witch would be awesome.
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good catch and I must of missed that bit: "I know Cosima said that while their fingerprints aren't the same they are close enough that the police could match them if one of them was in the system which Sarah was." I can live with that.

I think the mystery woman if young is the original and if older then was egg donor. I think Tatiana will play that character.
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I agree that she will play the character and it will be interesting to see how they do it. They could go the route of Neolution where she has some kind of anti-aging gene or slow-down aging gene.
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So true but I want to see her older--I think that would add even more to her acting "CV" or "resume" and that fact she plays multiple clones and an older clone should be a shoe in for an award but the awards hardly ever go to who I want them to go to;-(
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Aint that the truth...
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Another great episode. Again - Tatiana Maslany is the best actress of the year on television. Every performance was wonderful. Cosima realizing her worst fear was realized was heartbreaking. The scenes with Sarah and all she came in contact with in the episode. The reveal that Sarah and Helene were twins and the Sarah/Helene scenes. The scenes between mother and daughter - (thank you show for finding a young actor the audience wants to be protective of) And for the breath of fresh air with all the sh!t coming at Sarah - the continuing to blossom friendship between Felix and Alison - Jordan Gavaris shows every week why he is every bit as versatile and brilliant as his co-star. Oh and Bo's mom, er Angela, continuing to get to the bottom of everything Beth related not realizing she is going to cost her partner his badge. And of course some Matt Frewer and the Queen Maria Doyle Kennedy. Only thing missing was some Vic - lets see how he takes learning that Sarah isn't dead. Can't wait to see what they have cooked up for the finale - with the way the writers have handled this season thus far I have no doubt it'll blow my mind.
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Sometimes I think that Jordan Gavaris wrote the script and gave Felix all the best lines.
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She's been extraordinary but without him I think the whole thing may fall apart. I think he's her unsung anchor in the cast. Its the never breaking British accent that is uncanny. I'm really hoping they discover Felix was cloned as well. His funniest line of the series was when he first sees Cosima on the web cam and he whispers to Sarah, "I think her boobs are bigger than yours."
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I would love a line of Felix clones! I don't know the actor (hadn't seen him before to my recollection)~do you think he could pull it off? He is fantastic in his role but I don't think I have seen him in anything else
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I don't watch the show.
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thank you for sharing
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Good to know - NOT...
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Orphan Black has quickly become one of my favorite shows and hopefully it doesn't lose steam in season 2.
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Hey want to hear my only complaint...I can't tell the difference between Alison's house and Siobhan's house so the outside shots do nothing for me (and then when we decided to start showing Felix's apartment from the window and not the alley way I was again..where are we going? ).

Randomly also and this is based on just the picture of Paul...I suspect he has some sort of cloned part...specifically his left eye which makes me worry for him once he fully is on Sarah's side with no hopefulness that Lekee might be a good guy (though again Cosima stay in MN because she and Paul will likely be used by Lekee for awhile).
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Allison's house is detached. Mrs. S's is a row house. They are a very close brick color.
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I know, it is somehow the angle they take. It isn't really that important right now, but, randomly it might be as Felix has already taken a brother role to Alison, its not going to be so easy to immediately see him and say, oh, this is Sarah's story we are entering.
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Mrs S's house is what made me think this was a British show at first.
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So, still bugging me since the cops brought it up so many times: I know identical twins are clones. I know identical twins have similar fingerprints but not identical. Does anyone know if identical twins fingerprints are close enough for one to match another if only one is in the database?
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We've never cloned any people in reality, so anyone who says they know is suspect at best...
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I know that identical twins meet the scientific definition of clones because I can read. Turns out human cloning is pretty dang common and downright ancient.
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As I understand it, clones from and individual would be like twins but produced in a lab through mother cells ... right? So if we believe that it is posible to produce a perfect human clone, then they would have to be the same. I am personally not sure that it is posible to perfectly clone a human being, but I am ready to believe it for the show at least :)
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actually we have. only by law it's not allowed for the fetuses to grow to full term. as reproductive cloning is prohibited.
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The Raelian cult has proclaimed having already cloned at least two human clones through its Clonaid Inc. Since human cloning is prohibited by law, they have refrained from giving proof of life in these cases. Anyway, they seem to be a source for Orphan Black from what is known of the sect.
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sorry I ment embryos, they have to be terminated within 14 days
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suspect to be a clone? LOL
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Good one...
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Apparently they start out very similar then their environment affects them but all finger print analysis does is flags similarities and if there are enough they match. Next holiday I am going to ask my sister in laws (I think that is how they are related to me) who are identical twins but they are only by definition identical (I havea hell of a time telling them apart) but they are actually mirror twins. So I would think their fingerprints are opposite from each other but they probably would flag as being the same.
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You could simply ask them through mail if they wouldn't mind a print of their right hand (or left). I don't think they would mind if you explained.
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What's funny, I think I could probably ask their mother and she would know, she is like that. But, the more adult of twins I know are preparing for their respective high school graduations. The other set are fraternal (and two).
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Well, I was with you regarding the fingerprints until that told us that they are both identical twins and clones.While there is obviously no possible research on that issue, the show probably conjectures that this double attraction is the reason that is at the root of all the genetical goodies ( enhancement, fertility, mega immune system and so on).At this stage of biogenetics it is impossible that they have exact fingerprints.
But there is a way to solve this issue very easily if someone has an identical twin in the family or among friends.
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this has been studied and identical twins do not have exactly the same fingerprints and most agencies require a certain number of point matches when comparing fingerprints
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13 point matches, but they settle on 9 most of the time, I know. Forensics and criminology are some of my hobbies.But you are right that on the surface, depending what points of analogy are taken into account will determine differentiations.
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Yes, it is actually fun to discuss these things!
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see how great this show is~It makes us think and get interested in science~~leads to great discussions and a shared learning experience~kwim?
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I was disturbed by this at the beginning too, I thought it was a big error from the show to state that they would consider fingerprints to be identical in twins, since we know they are not. But apparently they are similar enough to give a match in the database, or at least this is the premise of the show. It's not so crazy an idea to think that sometimes, they might be similar enough. I can buy it. However, they should be different enough to be told apart at a closer look, when you know there are twins or clones available. So despite having the same DNA, fingerprints could have been an easy way for the scientists to be able to tell that Sarah wasn't Beth. And Cosima and the others never thought of that. That's still a flaw, I think. But well, it helped introduce that new concept of the "bar code"...
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identical twins have different fingerprints which is why I asked about it before...I can't explain why the clones have the same finger prints. I forgot how they were formed (thanks kprobbins) but just know they aren't identical...I looked it up a long time ago because of some movie or tv show I was watching. I don't think the show will explain this--suspension of disbelief...ok since the rest of the show is great.

Also having twins is not a trait that gets inherited. It drives me nuts when shows talk about twins running in families (at least it's not done on this show)---total BS. Only exception that I can think of is "hyper-ovulation" which is rare and can be passed on from the maternal line.
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Identical twins do NOT have identical fingerprints, I don't think they are even close. Fingerprints are formed by the movement of fluid in the womb, not by genetic coding. It's bugging me, too that so much is hinging on the fingerprints, even though I LOVE this show.
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They're close: http://www.straightdope dot com/columns/read/1277/do-identical-twins-have-different-fingerprints
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close does not equal the same and I doubt it would pull up a match. Maybe it depends on how many points of match they have. I doubt it would pop up as the same fingerprint based on number of points matched unless then only used a few points (there is probably a better term for "points"). I think it is a minor flaw in the show but everything else is so well done that it doesn't bother me.
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It becomes a "flaw" if we do not buy it - There are things I don't totally buy in the show, but I am in the same case as Vicky, I pass over them easily and keep watching because there is so much that is good.
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It's not really a flaw, simply an interpretation by the writers. The writers make the rules in sci-fi, remember?
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This is my favourite new show. I wonder if Sarah and Helena are real twins because they seem really different but they have a connection. Did the embryo split when it was implanted inside the surrogate mother or were 2 embryos with different modifications & "barcode" DNA implanted in the same surrogate?

Tatiana is brilliant, sometimes I forget it is the one actress playing all the clones. If its possible for the same actress to be nominated for both best actress & best supporting actress she should. The clones are all really individual, different personalities, accents and mannerisms.
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I theorize in each carrier multiple cloned zygotes, which were cloned in a test tube, like in traditional in vitro. So Sarah and Helena could either be two eggs that stuck and just happened to gestate in the same womb or could be the result of a division of one egg. I have actually wondered if the bar code is something that was installed later in the pregnancy and mayebe that is why most cannot have children. You know maybe it hits on a chromosome responsible for reproduction. And Sarah and Helena are not affected because their birth mother took off. As I write this something that occurs to me is that maybe it is earlier because they are all female and that means they had to control things to prevent the y chromosome from developing since if I am remembering correctly female is default. So I am just confusing myself but I am adding a post to convince tv.com to keep a post going about this show because apparently there is a lot to talk about.
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I still think they are all clones from the same zygote that was genetically modified and divided and then implanted into surrogates. After be inserted into Helena's and Sarah's surrogate the implanted zygote divided again to form the twins. I think the scientists knew she had twins but she ran before they knew more. I think they had to know she had twins because of the "blood is thicker then water" comment...just my opinion.

I don't see how some clones could be xy and others xx especially with all the tests Cosima ran...she would of noticed is some were xy and others (namely sarah) were xx. Also the others (xy) wouldn't have a menses. XY fetuses with androgen insensitivity can't have children (they have testes if I remember correctly). To be clones they have to have the same genetic material (except for the "barcode") so I think the original zygote was xx.

I LOVE your idea of two eggs (I'll say two zygotes) stuck together and both implanted into the surrogate...taking the experiment to the next level in that case. Great idea and I would like that twist. But I also like the idea of the genetically modified zygote dividing on it's own to create true twins of clones. The idea of twins of a clone is just to awesome.
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Thanks, I randomly now know far more about this than I did before (which consisted of that section of biology class I found interesting) and then the random research about two years ago now when my cousin found herself pregnant with twins and her husband swears there are no twins anywhere in his family. My sister and I sort of did that probability research just really to discover that my grandmother was an orphan herself.
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The XY early fetus starts out looking more "female" (actually they have the potential to become male or female in appearance) but the genotype is XY so they are male genetically (early embryos and early fetuses look the same). As testosterone and androgens (and probably other hormones) are produced it develops the male attributes (male organs). I don't remember or don't know what happens if the androgen and testosterone aren't present...something to look up...but the fetus and subsequent baby will have XY chromosomes.

There was some rumor about Jamie Lee Curtis...something about Androgen Insensitivity. Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS), or in old text books as Testicular Feminisation Syndrome and I think these are XY fetuses who are insensitive to the "male" hormones (which are present in both females and males hence the quotation marks) and so they appear to be female (female external sex organs but they can't menstruate and I think they are infertile...). Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome...it's getting late here and my mind is shutting down;-)

Everyone please continue to comment!
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I think the zygote split to form all the clones and then was implanted into different surrogates. Everything is genetically identical except for one area (codon, nucleotide or section of nucleotides...not sure the terminology) so imo there can only be one sperm cell and one egg that all the twins came from otherwise they would have more differences. If I remember biology correctly, 1/2 our genetic material (1/2 the chromosome or the 1/2 of the double stranded helix or the entire polymer) is from the mom (egg cell) and the other 1/2 is from the dad (sperm cell)~~this excludes mitochondrial DNA which is all maternal. I've reached about the limits of what I can remember from biology and biochem and I may be wrong....it was a while ago....

I really think that the splitting (to make clones) had to be done pre-implantation. Also I think only 1 egg cell and 1 sperm cell were the donors but maybe they took or replicated some other genetic material from other people (or "man made") and incorporated it into the genetic sequence obtained from the combining of the dna from sperm/egg.

Tatiana really is a brilliant actress! I have no trouble telling the clones apart from their speech and mannerisms. The only time I have problems is when one clone is impersonating another clone but the show has always portrayed this in a way that the viewers can tell the difference between them.
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Now see what you've made me do - I have to go watch the fourth episode with a ham and cheese on a hard roll. THANKS...
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@Muderboy you know I never noticed the resemblance but now that you say it I can see what you mean. They don't look a lot alike but a little...something about the eyes maybe? I like Navi Rawat- to me she'll always be the insane slayer :)
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It's not an American show so I don't think smoking = bad people, unlike USA shows where smoking = bad people (if they even show smoking)
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Smoking is BAD, everywhere but France. I could do some France...
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ham and cheese???
I want an egg sandwich! lol
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I can't reply to Muderboy but that is a good thing to remember about Alison. Sarah throws tantrums (which Felix can anticipate) as she did when she discovered Art took her $75,000. I foresee an episode where the audience will have to figure out which clone is which.

Vicky you have blown up my brain with all this science at 11pm. Kindergarten question: If Helena and Sarah were a split zygote, wouldn't they have the same hair?
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Okay, watched number four. I would say it was good but then everybody already knows that - except the numbnuts who declared he/she doesn't watch. The hard rolls were tiny so I had two and they were good too. This show has amazing reveals in every episode and this one was no exception. Since it's obvious that Maslany doesn't smoke, the fact that some do will play a part down the road I suspect. There's always a stigma about smokers and you can sometimes tell the bad guys on TV by them being smokers. Maslany reminds me a lot of Navi Rawat from the OC and NUM83R5. Anyone agree?
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I think Sarah and Helena are real twins besides being clones, and that the Neolution people had no idea that Sarah existed because maybe the surrogate mother ran away before they found out. Maybe Sarah doesn't have the barcode on her DNA, and that's why she can get pregnant. So many things to wonder about, lol.

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I believed this too, but then thinking about it... scientists were watching the mother a lot, as she said herself, so... wouldn't they know that there were twins already? I think the show is going for "they were real twins and neolutionist didn't know" anyways...
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I see a lot of "small" errors in this show, however, I forget about them very quickly because I love that they cut to the chase from the very beginning and keep going with a good rithm and weekly cliffhangers without stop. I don't know how long the goodness of the show will last, but for now I enjoy it very much and I keep my full interest on it. The 4 characters develop separately and there are few times when it is confusing for the viewer, despite having all the same face. No doubt the leading actress will get awarded for this.
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my new favourite show. it´s getting better and better with every new episode and never loses it´s tension just for one second. tatiana is doing an awesome job and i really can´t wait to see more ...
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Thanks for giving us a place to talk about Orphan Black!

I never would have guessed that Helena and Sarah are twins and clones at the same time. Also, I hope Sarah tells Art what's going on soon. I think having him on her side, now that he knows there's something weird going on, will be a big help to our favorite clones.
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I thought I saw Art's car pull up at the ship just after Dr Leekie's. if I saw right, I reckon the next stop for the Dr Leekie-Detective Bell omnibus is Mrs S's house, for a big clone-Leekie-cop standoff finale, with Helena or Kira or Mrs S's shotgun thrown into the mix.
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I couldn't reply to you above but regarding the "If Helena and Sarah were a split zygote, wouldn't they have the same hair?"...
hair coloring, crimper, curling iron, flat iron, I don't know. I doubt Helena had time to do anything to her hair but maybe nutritional deficiencies (doubt it) and no flat iron is my best guess...good point. Maybe it's a "disguise"? I have no freakin' clue but maybe the Promethians changed it to distinguish her from the other clones but I really can't see them actually doing it;-)

About the above comment of yours--I look forward to the stand off but do they really have enough evidence to justify a swat team? I'm fine with suspension of disbelieve. I don't think there is any hard evidence to suggest she is a killer so sending in a swat team for falsely impersonating a police officer and hindering an investigation seems a bit of a stretch to need the swat team. I may be wrong and am totally open to be educated on this. Regardless I look forward to the scene and think the show is so fabulous I can overlook some "artistic license".

I wish Sarah would just tell Art what is going on...
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I just watched the ending again, and Art doesn't drive to the ship. However, the preview of the next episode shows about 3 cops bursting into Mrs S's house.
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I didn't mean a swat team, I just meant Art. Probably would have been clearer if I had actually said that.

Thanks for answering my question about the hair.
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"They must take Impersonating a Police Officer pretty seriously."
LOL! Love the humor;-)
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Vicki: They must take Impersonating a Police Officer pretty seriously.
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didn't the previews of the next episode imply a swat like team?
;-)
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The actors on this show are crazy good the fact that Tatiana plays so many roles and I forget its the same actress is amazing. I can't believe how believable the accents they do are on this show. I honestly didn't think I would like this show but after the first episode I was hooked, they are able to sustain such an insane plot with fabulous acting, writing and story. And double points for the fact that its a Canadian production.
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Quite so, I have never heard of Tatiana before this show. But she is tremendously talented.
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Hey to start another conversation that would have taken place already....so apparently someone really looked at the birth certificates and Cosima is the oldest (I believe Sarah an Helena are the next and Alison is the youngest of who we have met..Beth was the second oldest). Do we think this automatically makes Cosima the likely original? I was just wondering because I thought maybe she was the one Lekee kept his own eye on.
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this was brought up elsewhere but I can't remember where on this site...one mentioned that some women carry the babies longer or give birth early and had some other interesting comments (I can't remember them). Does anyone have a list of order of birth dates?
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You're the first to make this point, Kate. My take on this show, and it's probably an increasingly relevant theme in the 21st century, is that it doesn't matter who the original: clones are individuals too. As Sarah always says, "There's only one of me."

Leekie, what a creepie.
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I think the original will turn out to be the woman Dr. Leekie called last night. We only saw her reflection, but I know it was Tatiana Maslany. She seems to be running things!

Unconscious Selection was so good. The twists keep coming and I never see them!

Does anyone know what the nurse saw on Kira's ultrasound?
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I think the woman Leekie called is the original since she seems to young to be the egg donor. I re-watched that scene andI think you are right about her being Tatiana Maslany (the voice and the reflection). She does seem to be calling the shots.

so true: "Unconscious Selection was so good. The twists keep coming and I never see them!"
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Leekie is the head of DYAD, but he is financed by major corporations and private money.I think that Redhead is the major contributor and that her agenda is more self-centered. Maybe she is unable to have children or has a rare genetical disease that needs perfect donors, clones.I am almost certain that she is another Meslany persona.
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I want to see her and not just her reflection. I'm sure it is Tatiana but I want to see what her age is to better guess if she is the original or if she had the donor egg....
I think you are right about her being the major contributor.
I like to see Tatiana looking older (egg donor)--I'm sure she could pull it off.
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tv.com just go ahead and put yourselves in the FTW list this week! Thank you all for listening and I'm glad other people, including Tim, find this show to be as mind-blowingly awesome as I do;-)
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Dammit, I go away for a weekend and when I get back I've missed a (and I'm just guessing here) great Orphan Black and TVdotcom finally hears our cries and opens an Orphan Black forum... But yes kudos are in order
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I meant episode 9.
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Aw pip, you really need to catch up on episode 10 somehow. It was chockas.
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you brown noser
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After all the bitching I did, they deserve the kudos....
New word for you--> sycophant ;-P
Brown noser is racist;-) Ass kisser is less offensive;-)
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Id have to agree that brown noser isnt racist. I'm pretty sure that every race shits brown. Unless you want to go with people that are sick/ have weird diets and pick green or some other color, but I'm pretty sure that nobody shit white.
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we were joking with each other--at least I was;-) Er, the "white" was referring to something else that is white and can be found on some people's noses (not GC's nose imo). I just inside jokes don't always translate well...

CAUTION--gross stuff--have you ever heard of Alli or Xenical---can lead to neon orange crap--really gross
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My shit's pink, and it smells like roses.
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my dog did
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brown noser is not racist - it just shows how deep your kissing technique is
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I suppose you have a white nose? I've never had a complaint about my kissing;-P
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