The Walking Dead "Not Tomorrow Yet" Review: Love and War

The Walking Dead S06E12: "Not Tomorrow Yet"


The Walking Dead has a way of falling into the same traps over and over again as it attempts to fill time between the opening credits and the end-of-episode "big moment," and that's pretty much what happened in "Not Tomorrow Yet," an uneven and unsteady episode that took its time to deliver some thrills. But thrills they were as Rick went along with his dumb-dumb agreement with the Hilltop community to fight their war in exchange for some carrots and butter. Hey, it's a living.

I don't think I was alone in not totally agreeing with Rick's plan to go mercenary and kill the Saviors for Gregory. If you looked at most everyone's faces, you'd think they were on the way to the vet to put their dog down instead of earning a hard-earned paycheck of kale. But it wasn't necessarily because they thought they were marching to their death. For many, the idea of killing another human being seemed to weigh on them more than whether or not they'd come back alive to eat another one of Carol's acorn-beet cookies (barf!). 

Murder has been tackled by The Walking Dead for ages now in pretty much every possible scenario. Is it ever right to kill another human when the war should be against the walkers? What lengths do you go to protect yourself in this hellish existence? Is preemptive killing justified if you think it's your only chance of survival? And the answer to these questions is almost always "sometimes," which is where it should be in order to get viewers to contemplate these dilemmas because that's where The Walking Dead thrives. I mean, this show has convinced that it's okay to kill kids! (Sometimes.)

But we've seen this question time and time again, which points back to the show exhausting its limited fuel. Watching a worried Carol thumb through her murder diary to figure out how many people she's killed and listening to Glenn and Heath pontificate over when it's right and not right to kill someone didn't carry a lot of weight simply because it's a repetitive theme of the show. Yes, killing is bad! But sometimes it's good! That's the long and short of it, and no matter how many times The Walking Dead puts its characters in these situations, that will be the answer. And again, that was the answer this time. It's only when there are drastic swings in that question, like when Morgan preached non-lethal confrontations or when Rick wanted to kill everyone who looked at him funny or when Carol killed Lizzy, that The Walking Dead feels challenging and has the incredibly entertaining task of convincing us that an extreme method is the correct answer. 


It also felt more hollow without actually knowing who the Saviors were other than that one incident on the road with Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham. These are—as far as know, because it's all we've been told—very, very, very bad guys who will, in Rick's words, come after them eventually. (That is, if they ever find Alexandria, which they haven't since the apocalypse started so why would they now? Oh man, I would get kicked out of Alexandria so fast.) The question on their minds shouldn't be whether or not killing them is okay, it should be whether or not this decision was the right one and whether turning into killers for hire is a direction they want to go. Only Morgan seemed to question things, and as usual, everyone told him to keep his hippie-dippy new-agey trap shut.

With their murder tour set, The Walking Dead passed some time with some relationship catch-ups. Carol planted a kiss on Tobin because... they're around the same age and single? Like Richonne, this felt like it came out of nowhere, but maybe with the walls of Alexandria up and the zombies gone, the residents can remember that they like to get down. Elsewhere, Tara told Denise she loved her, and... that was about it, but it was still a scene the episode felt like it needed. And Abraham stormed out of his room with Rosita in a very unclassy break-up move while Rosita asked for an explanation. These three scenes were pretty much back-to-back-to-back, as if The Walking Dead wanted to do something with this blank space it needed to fill. But ugh, what really was the point of these scenes? None of them set up anything for later, they weren't called back at any point, and they were never spoken of again. 

Let's look at Tara and Denise specifically. Both characters are being defined by their relationship instead of the more interesting personal stories they have. Tara used to fight for the Governor and at one time was on the other side of the battle line from Rick's group. Denise went from nobody to one of the most important people in the community as the only doctor. It's too late to salvage either of those stories, but imagine if Tara had killed someone from Rick's group during the Governor fight and held that secret. Wouldn't that have been an interesting avenue to explore? What if Denise ached from not being able to save her friend? Instead, they have nothing but to be together and make that who they are in this show. It's efficient in that the show can knock out two characters' worth of stuff in one scene because The Walking Dead has too many characters to give them all solid material, but it dilutes everything. Who is invested in any of these three relationships? Not me, that's for sure. This is nothing new to The Walking Dead, but here—particularly in this sequence of relationship check-ins—it was incredibly obvious that this ensemble is too big and there isn't enough time for all the characters. It's time to thin the herd, methinks. 


But once we headed out on the road, things picked up a ton. I loved the idea of searching for a decoy Gregory head by honking horns and attracting a bunch of zombies to cut their heads off. It's convenient many of them weren't in an advanced state of decay and had grey hair, too! And of course Rick reconfiguring a zombie's nose by punching it in the face was incredible. Rick may not be the bloodthirsty maniac he was earlier this season, but his evolution in a man who doesn't understand why people look at him funny when he's covered in human blood or using a walker's head as a speed bag is so great that it makes up for everything else. Rick needs to mutter a threatening "What?" after doing something uncouth in every episode. 

The assault on Negan's compound happened pretty quickly, no? After dispatching the guards, Rick and his pals strolled on in and stabbed a bunch of Saviors in their sleep. Maybe the Savior's medicine stash included a bunch of Ambien or they were sleeping off an 18-pack each, because these guys were OUT and didn't even make a sound as Rick pushed his knife into their tired brains. Eventually, one of the Saviors woke up and sounded an alarm, and from then on, "Not Tomorrow Yet" became a hail of bullets as Rick's gang battled the Saviors. Thankfully, the Saviors took weapons training at the Stormtrooper Academy for Firearms, and none of the good guys suffered so much as a scrape while every single Savior bled out of countless bullet holes. I guess Rick and his group are that good and the idea was a great one after all.

Well, almost. Just when Rick thought all the Saviors were dead, Michonne asked which one was Negan. And then we were reminded there was no boss battle. A motorcyclist tore out of the compound (just go with it) and Rick took him down as a walkie talkie spilled out of the guy's jacket and a voice on the other end told them to drop their weapons because they had Maggie and Carol captive. Zoinks. I swear to Ghost Lori that if this show touches a hair on Carol's head I will riot. 

So that's how "Not Tomorrow Yet" went. Some slow build up, some leaps of faith, some time-wasting, and then lots and lots and lots of killing followed by a white-knuckle cliffhanger that spelled more trouble for two of our favorite characters. We still have yet to meet Negan, but when we do, he'll have pretty heavy leverage to work with.  



FESTERING BITEMARKS

– UGH, people (Carol) are even bringing food (cookies) to Sam when he's DEAD. That spoiled kid gets everything put right in his lap.

– Carol's murder journal listed off her victims: Ryan (Lizzy's dad), Karen, David, Lizzy, three more at Terminus, "Candle Woman" (from the sacrifice room in Terminus), seven Wolves, and then she circled the number 18, which I assume was her total. Is she bad at math? Or did I miss something? And where was that Alexandrian woman she mercy-killed during the Wolves attack? Carol, if you're going to keep a murder journal, you have to keep it up to date. I have no problem keeping mine current.

– Father Gabriel's joke about wearing his preacher gear because it would be harder for the enemy to see him in the dark was some subversive shit. Loved it. 

– Also, quoting scripture before shooting a man in cold blood? Gabriel's done a 180, but he still has a long ways to go before he's out of my doghouse.


Comments (207)
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Mar 11, 2016
People who criticize Rick's decision to strike quickly at the saviors seem to be forgetting that Rick was on the clock. The delivery of "Gregory's" head was the dodge they used to lure out the 2 sentries at the savior compound.

More importantly the saviors were expecting to receive the head and soon. When it didn't arrive in a day or two they would naturally assume that they had been double-crossed. The saviors would certainly take a trip to Hilltop to do the job themselves and probably break a few heads as an example. They would want to know why their order had not been followed and the Hilltop people would say that their assasin had been killed by members of a community called Alexanderia ( no reason to cover for Alexanderia). All the saviors would need then is a map of Virginia to find Alexanderia. Sayonara Alexandria!


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Mar 10, 2016
super episode,amazing how they make it axiding with out the treath of walkers,it whas a ninja snipper all gory but amazing well done episode,this second season is all good
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Mar 09, 2016
A better episode with the raid on the Savoirs Communication base risky but nearly paid off. Still I am not quite sure of Ricks plan yes they need food but surely raiding nearby towns would of been better then storming a enemy they know little about. I reckon Carol for the chop because they doing that thing where a character weighs up their choices and besides bakery and being mom her story finished .
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Mar 09, 2016
Still I am not quite sure of Ricks plan yes they need food but surely raiding nearby towns would of been better then storming a enemy they know little about.

Exactly. This is more important than the big Morgan/Carol debate on killing.

I don't mind Rick's decision for a mercenary pre-emptive attack nearly so much as his willingness to blindly attack an adversary he knows little about. For all Rick knows there could be hundreds of Saviors in the area.

Rick's group is dangerously ignorant about the other survivor groups in the area.
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Mar 10, 2016
It will all end in tears from the trailer who is that ginger actress I sure I see her in another show?
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Mar 14, 2016
If you're talking about the woman Paula negotiating with Rick, she was in a couple of Sopranos episodes as an assistant to Jon Favreau. She was sorta leading Christopher on to get good gangster material for Favreau.
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Mar 15, 2016
Alicia Witt good performance nice payoff
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Mar 09, 2016
poor Morgan! didn't get any cookies.
"When I first met you I thought you were the last woman on Earth." damn!
"You tried one of these? they're chewy." Eugene and his perfect timing
"The Saviors they're scary but those pricks got nothing on you."
Enjoyed them stealth killing the Saviors!
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Mar 09, 2016
I didn't understand why Rick made so little to understand who the Saviors are and how many there might be. Daryl RPG'ed a group of ten or so Saviors in one whack.

At this point there are at least three hostile groups in the area: the Wolves, the Saviors and the group Daryl ran across in the diabetic. episode. Considering that Daryl and Aaron have been doing recon and recruiting for a while but they keep getting surprised.

It seems to me Rick rushed into the pre-emptive strike way too quickly.
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Mar 09, 2016
The question on their minds shouldn't be whether or not killing them is okay, it should be whether or not this decision was the right one and whether turning into killers for hire is a direction they want to go.

Tim: That's a good distinction, which goes beyond the Carol/Morgan debate about killing.

The problem with Morgan is not just hippy-dippy preaching but that his choices have consistently endangered the lives of everyone.

Had Morgan killed the main Wolf at the breakfast ambush, Alexandria might not have been attacked. If Morgan had slowed down Carol , she might not have secured the armory and Alexandria would have fallen. If Morgan had not let that group of Wolves flee Alexandria, they would not have had the chance to attack Rick when he was returning with the RV.
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Mar 09, 2016
i dont get it can someone explain?
when i watch the walking dead on tv hd or yep sorry download it,its not nearly good picture as in photo recaps on here, is the walking dead broadcast just bad icture with a lot of grain or is it my tv's fault?

amazing episode btw !
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Mar 10, 2016
It depends on your tv and it depends on your signal or your streaming or your download, whichever way you're going. No simple answer.
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Mar 09, 2016
We are deeply entrenched in blah season, that torturous time after the second B season episode when we are building to something, building, building, but it is dull, dull, dull.

I have repeatedly said the whole Neegan thing leaves me cold. I could not possibly care less about this story line, even with Maggie and Carol' s being held hostage. At this point, they'll get out or they won't. Thanks to all the Sammy Spoilers on this site,we know bad things are coming. And I, for one, am ready for them to get here already so we can move on to something else.

Abraham's abrupt and cruel departure from the home he shared with Rosita was bad, but it all seemed better the next day, because the only thing Rosita wanted to talk about was something that happened at the Hey-let's go-kill-these random-dudes meeting.

It's obvious if Carol survives these painfully boring episodes, she is going to become Morgan's disciple. I'm bored already.

as for the decision to fight, the show did a good job of showing the group is getting kind of desperate for food. The garden crops are planted, but it will be awhile before they can be harvested. The group's last haul is at the bottom of a lake. The fact that Tara and Heath are off on a two-week run shows supplies in the area are failing fast. Was it a good decision to hire themselves out as gunslingers for food? I don't know. I do know Rick isn't eager to have his children go hungry again. So, whatever.

I'll hang on till the end, but I really think maybe the bloom is off the rose this time. I may be at the end of my romance with this show.


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Mar 09, 2016
I'm not so sure Carol will become a Morgan disciple, but otherwise I share much of your disillusionment with the show.

The plotting has become so arbitrary. It's hard to believe the stakes anymore.

If food is such big deal, why didn't they go back to the truck in the lake and salvage what they could. Instead they just laughed about it.
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Mar 09, 2016
I do think they are leading to Carol's joining Morgan's stick carrier brigade. Remember when the wolves were attacking and he told he he knew she didn't like having to kill people. And now she's unhappily making a list of all the people she's offed. They are leading up to her having a major crisis of conscience, and there's crazy Morgan always looking for acolytes.
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Mar 09, 2016
Lacking scuba diving equipment, the group probably can't get to that food. Not to mention some of it would be lost to water damage when they opened the doors of the truck.


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Mar 09, 2016
Sure some of the food and stuff would be water-damaged, but the lake didn't look that deep and perhaps they could hustle up some scuba equipment if they tried.

The point is that they didn't. If they are that close to starving you'd think they would try a salvage run.

I'd have also thought in the first Jesus episode that they would have made getting that truck back to Alexandria their top priority instead of taking an unknown way back and messing around with the Jesus guy.
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Mar 10, 2016
I agree that would make sense, but I also think they are ranging far afoot for food these days. Taking another way home makes sense for both scavenging and just getting to know the area better.

I think we just have an honest disagreement. I don't think either of the choices was wrong. It's just different people have different ways of thinking about things.

What we can agree upon, I think, is that once they encountered trouble, they should have booked it for home immediately with the food they had and not taken any chances.
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Mar 10, 2016
I see your point, but I think they were taking a new way back because they are still scouting for food.

Yes, they were scouting for food, but given that they had already found a jumbo truck full of good stuff, including food, I would have thought the priority was to preserve that windfall rather than risk it on the unknown for a few bags of canned goods or nothing.
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Mar 09, 2016
I see your point, but I think they were taking a new way back because they are still scouting for food.
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Mar 09, 2016
Over the last few weeks, I've had this nagging feeling Abraham will be the next character to die before season's end and that he won't be the only one. I just think Rick's decision to go on the offensive will, and maybe should, cost them more than one (main character) life.

Also, the actor who plays Aaron said the Season 6 finale was one of the darkest scripts he's ever read. With that said, I personally can't think of anything darker than having Negan kill Maggie. It would definitely get people talking.
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Mar 09, 2016
Aaron sounds like a good candidate to die, given that he is kinda crazy, becoming less sympathetic with his betrayal of Rosita, and lacks the fan support of, say, Daryl and Carol.
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Mar 12, 2016
Remind me, how did Aaron betray Rosita? I don't remember those two having much to do with each other
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Mar 08, 2016
One scene really unsettled me:




Right before that I was worried for Glenn and the other few "good-guys" among the Alexandrians, with all these stabbings in the night and all. But the polaroids of the smashed-in heads speak volumes of the abysses they were gazing into. In THIS world, the work it took to even MAKE those pics yet alone making and KEEPING those pics... Wow. Those fucks are worse then animals, worse than the Wolves. From that scene on I was like: "Those fucks had way too easy deaths."
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Mar 09, 2016
you would'nt see this up for the turner prize lol
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Mar 08, 2016
I actually really liked killer father Gabriel. Dunno, there's something about unpredictability that makes it thrilling. Like if I were the other guys, I would see this psycho priest with the scripture quoting and be SO scared of him. He would be the ultimate bad-guy, really, worse than the Governor. He would be, the Priest. :')
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Mar 08, 2016
It is amazing how much he has changed. For awhile I thought he might be going insane but he has pulled himself together in a positive way.
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Mar 08, 2016
Since they on The Road i was on The edge of my Couch. Holy crap, what an Second half of that Episode!
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Mar 08, 2016
Ughh hate not being able to watch another 40 min of what happens next after those cliffhangers - wish I was binging this a few weeks down the track. Although, when the episodes are continually this good, the week goes past much quicker! Am really annoyed Carol Maggie got caught. It's obvious this Negan and these Saviours aren't just based in one place. "There will be Blood". Got a feeling they've got a whole army of these psychos with maybe another base(s). The action is truly very good but just thinking of and the "event" down the track is annoying, sad, furiously horrifying!!

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Mar 08, 2016
#IHateTimSurrette
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Mar 09, 2016
let's start a club
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Mar 08, 2016
great episode, shitty review.
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Mar 08, 2016
the problem with the walking dead recently is no one dies....surely carol and maggie have to die for the good of group if they are not dead already....if this was game of thrones
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Mar 08, 2016
nah, they are part of the main cast. I think Abraham is going to die because he wants to leave.
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Mar 08, 2016
I love the Walking Dead
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Mar 08, 2016
Abraham is such an asshole: "When I first met you I thought you were the last woman on earth. You're not." The guy finally says something that resembles English and its unnecessarily cruel and awful.
Loved the whole attack on Negan's compound. The group was unbelievable in sync! Like wow did they discuss who was gonna kill the two guards beforehand or did we just decide via telepathy during the moment? I've seen too many musicals with less choreography. For real, though, that was brutal. Like a kind of brutal we've never seen from Rick's group. Killing people in their sleep? Idk guys. Are Maggie's tomatoes really growing so poorly? I think not.
Speaking of Maggie, really girl? You couldn't just stay home this once?
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Mar 08, 2016
Yeah what were those arguments Maggie used; she had to go because she had made the deal, so she feels obliged to go? News flash Maggie, it's not about you or what you feel anymore, it's about the baby in your belly. Stay home and wait 9 months until the baby is born, THEN go out and risk your life. Because then it will be your life to risk again, and no one else's.
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Mar 09, 2016
I mean, I definitely understood where Maggie was coming from. She made this deal. She asked the group to risk their lives for it. Somehow very quietly Maggie has become a leader among this group. And its important for leaders to go with their troops into battle. So I think Maggie was coming from that sam e sort of vein. If she was willing to ask others to risk their lives, she needed to be supportive and be willing to risk her own. However, pregnant lady always gets kidnapped. Because thats like double the hostages. Those folks basically have 3 people hostage. Our only real advantage is that they don't know Maggie is pregnant. If they did, there is no telling what they might do.
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Mar 09, 2016
Yes. I understood where she was coming from too. But I think Maggie had not yet understood what pregancy means. In this case it means giving up what is important for you, like going with your group as a a leader 1) because you need to make sure your baby makes it because hey, it's your baby, a new life, etc and 2) to ensure the survival of mankind because in this world, mankind is on the verge of becoming extinct.
Which means right now she has other responsibilities that weigh heavier than her instinctive urge to do right by the people she is leading. It's no longer about the fact that if "she was willing to ask others to risk their lives, she needed to be supportive and be willing to risk her own", because she's no longer risking just her own life - something she will probably understand if she makes it out alive.
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Mar 08, 2016
I would be like Sam never leaving the house for 9 months. LOL
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Mar 09, 2016
Yeah, well I never said that it would be fun. But of course she wouldn't have to stay in the house (but I guess you were kidding)... She could go for walks in Alexandria, at least. Eat Carol's beet cookies. Help with farming, as she probably knows a lot about farming, being a farmer's daughter. That's very important in an apocalypse world; she wouldn't be useless!
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Mar 09, 2016
Yeah I was kidding. I am like you, there is a thousand things she could be doing behind the walls.
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Mar 08, 2016
Well I disagree that the relationship scenes were pointless.
I see it as development for each character, they all have something to live for, to fight for and to come back to.
For how long, it's only been Rick, Maggie, Glen and Abraham (Rosita) whose had a consistent love life going on. Yeah there's been random love interests but mostly it's been all zombies and survival.
I feel like the entire first half of the episode was showing us, the audience, just how comfortable everyone was getting in their lives at Alexandria.
Carol walking along the streets smiling and handing out cookies in the first couple minutes.
Carol actually kissing someone! I mean, Carol, who has been in fighter mode for so many seasons has finally let her guard down enough to actually kiss someone.
Carol making a kill journal, this was a huge stepping stone for her, it shows us how much Morgan is really affecting her! She tries to deny it but he is slowly influencing her. One, she never told Rick about what he did by keeping the wolf in the basement, two she is now starting to feel guilty about killing people, so much so she is keeping a journal, and also her standing up for Maggie and telling Rick off about the fact that Maggie shouldn't even be there, and shouldn't be left alone. Carol is a fighter and will still get shit done no doubt but she's actually starting to 'feel' again, and care again, and is trying to figure out ways to deal with her past (ie the journal). I'm liking this development in Carol. I still want her to kick ass though.
Tara and Denise, yet again, was another example of showcasing two people falling in love and then having to go there seperate ways with no way of knowing if they will ever see eachother again. Yet again, showing us what these people have to lose, and the relationships that have been formed in their new home.
Even Abraham struggling with who he wanted to be with, in the last couple episodes was bringing us to this point, where he chose Sasha. I mean, this is big because it means that Abraham, is thinking about the future because he actually SEES a future. This is a man who last season wanted to kill himself when he found out that Eugene had lied about knowing the cure. Now here he was falling in love and making the choice to follow his heart.
(Mind you I hated the way he did it, I mean, he doesn't seem like the guy who wants to have a mushy heart to heart, but as Rosita said "after all they have been through" he can't just sit her down and explain himself? It was pretty brutal to watch).
Anyways! Basically to me, the last few episodes have been about the future. Showing us how comfortable everyone is becoming and all the relationships that have bonded during their time at Alexandria. Rick and Michonne, Maggie and Glen getting pregnant, Glen and Maggie becoming parental over Edith, and I mean, even Gabriel is finding his place. And I guess this is all being shown simply because it's all going to fall to pieces very soon, once they meet Negan and deal with the consequences of Ricks stupid plan.
It also means they will fight harder than ever before to keep what they have standing. Now that they all have found love or friendship or just their own place in the world, I'm sure they are not going to let it go without fighting harder than they ever have before.

The thing is, this show still struggles with the slower paced stuff. I understand it, and I can apperciate the story they are telling us but for some reason it just seems to always drag. The action stuff is ALWAYS on point but its just the character building scenes that are super dull (most of the time).
I understand that this type of show is more about the action then about the slow stuff so I only complain about it because I know that it's possible to be up to par on both fronts.
Take a show like Banshee or Justified, both fantastic shows full of action BUT also great solid characters and never a dull moment in sight ( just my opinion ). Just saying, I wish the Walking Dead was better at that part of the show! Also I wish the Walking Dead didn't drag shit out so much. I mean, why haven't we seen Negan yet? Why do they have to make it this huge reveal? Why can't you just keep the show going!? I can't stand when they keep up this slow ass tease, it's just stupid to make us wait, (probably till the last episode). I don't get why they don't make every episode crazy insane, when they have the materiel to do it, but choose to drag it all out till the final episode or one big episode. Sigh.
Basically I did enjoy this episode, especially the last little bit, even if I HATED Ricks plan, it was still awesome and very well put together. Can't wait for next episode.
Also I mentioned Banshee and Justified earlier and ironically there are two great actors on next weeks Walking Dead (one who was formally on Banshee and one who was formally on Justified). Lol makes me happy!
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Mar 08, 2016
I still don't like it. Not to be morally superior, not because I don't know Gregory enough to trust him, not even because they were assassinated in their sleep. I just don't like it. I don't.

I still trust Jesus, I felt bad for Tara and, oddly enough, I related to Gabriel but I still don't like it.

Carol's diary didn't seem like a murder list to me as much as a check-up list: the people she had the choice not to kill. The ones she could've just looked the other way, let someone else make the call.

She was so focussed on said list and she was trying so hard not to let Maggie start her own list, I'm positive Carol is already dead. And that's what I hate the most about all this.
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Mar 10, 2016
I get pretty impatient with all the moral handwringing about Rick and Carol's killing, but this murder-for-food deal feels wrong.

Plus, as I've said, Rick didn't do his homework as he should have. His certainty that "We'll win because we've won before" could have gone south badly.

It's already gone south bad enough to maybe get Carol and Maggie killed.
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Mar 08, 2016
There was some heavy foreshadowing in this one, unless I'm reading too much into what I saw.

The walker with his right arm chopped off cleanly, that Glenn kills when Glenn and Heath are discussing killing another human being. Potentially something to look forward keeping Rick in mind.

Glenn looking at photos of all the bashed in heads, possibly the work of Lucille. Foreshadowing his own demise.

It's crazy how people who resist killing, are the ones usually killed. But in Glenn's case (correct me if I'm wrong) he's been the one exception who never killed a living human until this episode. And I think he just sealed his fate by doing so, killing will get him killed.
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Mar 07, 2016
Everyone was really pissed that Andera did not stab the Governor while he was asleep. Now everyone is second guesting Rick for during the same thing. Just on a larger scale.
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Mar 07, 2016
The man, the mustache, the one liner:

"Nibble on this"
"when you're pouring the bisquik were you trying to make pancakes?"
"Why dingleberries are brown?!"

Ladies and gentlemen I give you Abraham Ford: a new world poet.
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Mar 07, 2016
So those polaroid's over the bed......
move along, nothing to see. What do you mean foreshadowing?
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Mar 07, 2016
It could have being a great episode it it wasn't because of the music. Still, a very good episode with many things to think about. One thing is clear now, who is in charge. Unfortunately I don't think she will live long now that she is captured by Negan.


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Mar 08, 2016
Rick has always been in charge, he never asks like a subordinate do to his leader. If Carol loses Rick, she does lose the guy bossing them around. If Rick loses Carol, it's the same as if he'd just lose Daryl or Abraham.
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Mar 08, 2016
You compare Carol to Daryl and Abraham? Carol has saved the lives of everyone, several times. Daryl and Abraham are just two tough guys.
Not because Rick goes around bossing people means he is the boss. He may be a leader, but the real boss, in my eyes, is Carol.
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Mar 07, 2016
Music? are you on about Hoozier's Arsonist Lullaby? it's a great song - why do people hate music in TV shows??? - LOST was amazing at including music in their episodes (the beginning with Carol reminded me of Desmond in the hatch with - make your own kind of Music in the background)
I'd understand your anger if it was a 20 minute Kurt Sutter montage but you're whining about nothing
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Mar 08, 2016
One thing I agree with you is about Kurt Sutter's terrible long music montages.
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Mar 07, 2016
It's a decent song i just felt it was a bad choice for that moment. It didn't fit for me. Just my opinion. Music can be great for moments but they can also distract and take you out of the moment. It can be hit or miss that way.
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Mar 08, 2016
Disagree but fair enough
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Mar 08, 2016
I agree. In this instance, that song definitely took me out of the moment.
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Mar 07, 2016
"But ugh, what really was the point of these scenes? None of them set up anything for later, they weren't called back at any point, and they were never spoken of again."

Jesus, Tim, are you 6 yrs old? First of all the scene with Tara and Denise was brought up again when she was talking to Gabriel in the car. And second, it's called plot development. Not to mention if you really think the scene with Abraham and Rosita was pointless and added as filler I don't know what to tell you. Try to be patient and see what develops. Not every single scene has to be tied to the current episode and wrapped up by the end credits.

I have to say this episode was excellent imo and I haven't been too crazy about the episodes this season. Up til now, I couldn't really see what people meant about you just never being happy with the show even when it's good, but I totally get that now. You mention how Morgan seemed to be the only one who thought the plan was a bad idea but you attribute his reasoning to it being a bad plan. Wrong. Morgan is against killing for any reason and that was the foundation of his objection.

And I heartily disagree that we don't need to see people battling with the idea of killing human beings. I loved the scene with Heath and Glenn talking about it and thought Glenn nailed it with the line about how killing someone has to be worse than the thing that haunts you most. "It has to be." And when he teared up after killing the first one I thought it was very believable and realistic for how that scenario would go down for any of us who have a conscience and morals. If you can't understand the difference between taking a human life and taking out a walker, I worry for what kind of person you are. On that note, I think it's great that they have showed how the killing machine known as Carol is now struggling with what she's done. Again, it's realistic and if someone has gone past the point of killing people having any kind of effect on them then there's truly no hope for them. There's a reason why our soldiers come back from war with PTSD and struggle to get back into the swing of normal society and that's as it should be.
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Mar 08, 2016
Tim has definitely reached the point where he's miserable while watching the show.
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Mar 07, 2016
I do think the show has issues with falling back into the same old patterns, repetitive conversations and reducing characters to basic traits/defining them largely by their relationship. Bla bla bla, see any other season of TWD around this stretch towards the finale.

I actually don't think Rick was in the wrong with his plan. He's not wrong about the Alexandrians. The saviors haven't found them yet, but they came pretty close with Daryl and co at the start of the mid season. But the biggest reason I think he's worried is because of Hilltop. They need Hilltop to trade, and I think Rick recognizes that there are other settlements, which means there's some semblance of society. Even if he doesn't necessarily want that, he needs it.

Hilltop is far from loyal, and we know Rick isn't the most trusting character. Even if they were able to set up trade without murder, Hilltop would want to sell out the location. The saviors would start asking questions about where the other supplies were coming from. Even if they didn't and the residents hid it, the saviors have been causing trouble by asking for more supplies, that's what sparked the most recent confrontation. Don't you think someone would sell out Alexandria in the hope of the Saviors taking less supplies/rewarding them in some other way?

Rick could murder everyone and just take their stuff, but the Saviors would notice that Hilltop ceased to exist. Even if they don't know exactly where Alexandria is, they'd start looking at that point. Rick would also be making it just a one time thing, and it seems like he needs them for consistent supplies. It also ruins any attempt at reaching out to those other settlements.

The Saviors are also basically just a less subtle version of the Governor's army, so it's not like Rick is overreacting. Plus, as we've been shown since the arrival in Alexandria, a big problem with them was them becoming naive and thinking that nothing bad could ever reach them. They never dealt with the wolves, who in turn came back and murdered them. They didn't deal with the hoard and they managed to get in and murder them. If they don't deal with Neegan now, he'll eventually find them and murder them. They also don't have the same knowledge as the audience. The implication has been that Neegan basically operates a small thug militia group, 20 or 30 people. Still definitely a threat, look at what the wolves did with similar (if not smaller) numbers and nowhere near as good equipment.

It wasn't even the worst plan in the world. Where it fell apart? The people he brought. Who cares that Maggie made the deal? The whole entire point of her doing the talking was Rick recognizing that it wasn't his strong suit. Rick is the murder guy, Maggie was the talking person. She did her part, now Rick is doing his. Maggie shouldn't have to commit, it's not like she literally promised that she was going to be the one to take up arms and kill the Saviors. In fact, it's arguably a waste of her talents, because you've already acknowledged that she's apparently the only one that can make diplomatic deals with Hillside, so why bring her and risk her dying? And that's of course not even going into the fact that SHE"S PREGNANT.

It's not like Rick's group is exactly lacking strong fighters at this point either. Maggie is definitely experienced, but she's gotta hit the bench. It's not even like she was having a "what value am I" to the group moment, because as they pointed out, she's their diplomatic girl now. Meanwhile, he has Abraham, Michonne, Carol, Daryl etc. who are all plenty good at murder. And he did bring those guys along, but they ended up losing Carol precisely because of bringing Maggie. And that wasn't something that they discussed earlier? Maggie was talking about guarding the perimeter before they actually left, but apparently nobody else had that talk, since Carol didn't seem to know until they were getting ready to hit the compound. Which is even stranger, because the alternative meant that Maggie was hitting the compound with them which would make even less sense. Did Maggie travel in secret or something, and did nobody else have any idea who was going to be there?

Bringing Gabriel seemed like an odd choice too, but I'm willing to give TWD a bit of a pass on that. It's implied he's had a lot of training in the X amount of weeks/months that have passed, and I can buy that. We've seen/heard about them discussing training and I don't think it's a stretch that off screen training has happened. My issue is that, this is a straight up murder mission. There's a big difference between killing a living human and a zombie, and I don't think Gabriel was really ready for that. Just look at how much Glenn hesitated, and he's one of the more established/experienced people. Gabriel was a coward who hid in his church, and well, a man of God. I don't think he was ready for mass murder. Even the one murder he did commit, he seemed hesitant and kept asking the guy to surrender. When your plan is sneak in and stab people in their sleep, that's not the mentality you want your raiding team to have. If he was really insistent on going, then he's the one that should have been doing the perimeter guarding, not Maggie.

Also, did nobody think to even check up on Maggie and Carol? They went in at night and came out during the day (I'm assuming there was lots of looting and vehicle prepping and what not, again fine with that) but did nobody think to check in with the perimeter guard during that time? You'd think Glenn especially would be all over that. Even if they did and it's assumed they were just still guarding, you'd think Glenn or someone else would take over for Maggie. The compound is the safer place to be, since obviously reinforcements aren't coming from inside, they'd be coming from the outside, so now the compound is safe, and perimiter is the dangerous potential hotspot.
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Mar 08, 2016
I just wish Rick wasn't in this HUGE rush and instead took a couple days to investigate what he was up against, it's just so stupid and sloppy to raid a compound without knowing exactly what you are up against, especially finding out more about the leader 'Negan', . I mean the Hilltop people must have seen him? They could have interviewed EVERY single Hilltoper and found out more info before, and also sent Daryl and Aaron off to investigate for a couple of days. Then they might have found out that that first compound was only the tip of the ice berg, and they would have been more prepared.
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Mar 07, 2016
Maggie isn't just the talking guy though. She is a badass in her own right and can handle herself quite well and has been through as much sh*t as anyone. It was a case of being a leader in the sense of i can't ask people to do what i'm not willing to do myself. She solidified the deal to make the assault and so she felt a need to be a part of it even if not directly going inside due to her pregnancy.

These people got the jump on both Carol and Maggie so they must be skilled which again the same with the compound the crew weren't expecting. After it's all said and done in hindsight it's always easy to say well this and this should've happened but at the same time that could've not happened as well. One thing i do agree with is Maggie shouldn't have been left alone even if she wasn't pregnant. I'm always against that whole let's split up and be alone. Someone on your team should be there to watch your back.
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Mar 08, 2016
Normally I'd agree with being a leader in the sense of "I can't ask peope to do what I'm not willing to do myself", but when you're pregnant it's more like "I can't ask people to do what I'm not willing to risk an unborn baby's life for", which is when you should stop yourself and think "Hey... yeah, I CAN actually ask people to do what I won't be doing for the next 9 months of pregnancy, because it's not about ME any longer" - afterwards, sure, go ahead and do yourself what you're asking of others, because if you die someone else can take care of the baby, but during those 9 months of pregnancy if you die, the baby dies. And in this Z apocalpyse, each new life counts 10000 more than under usual circumstances, doesn't it...
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Mar 07, 2016
You are right Hindsight is a real drag. Still the pros and cons of her going there was more cons than pros.
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Mar 08, 2016
I guess you have a point there if you weigh out the pros and cons in a logical way. At the same time it's also difficult to use real world logic as we understand it now in the same context as the zombie apocalypse and everything Rick and the crew have experienced.

So... maybe looking through the lens of that logic is skewed a bit.

Maggie's fully capable of making her own decisions. She also talked to Glenn about it and he supported her decision based on the information they had. If they knew what was going to happen exactly as we do in hindsight, or if they knew exactly what they were up against maybe they would've chose a different path. Same with Jessie and Sam. If she had all the knowledge and information maybe she doesn't keep Sam there, etc.
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Mar 07, 2016
Agree about Maggie. If she had stayed back in town no one would have been taken prisoner. Carol would have been with Rick. Also why were they not moving faster to get guns and supplies together so they could leave before someone showed up.
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Mar 08, 2016
They weren't moving faster because they believed they had killed Negan and his entire group. They had no idea there were more people out there.
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Mar 08, 2016
I just look at it from a predator's perspective and Maggie is the most valuable hostage for another faction: the pregnant mate of a - presumed - alpha male.

Carol is completely expendable for them.
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Mar 07, 2016

Hallelujah. Rick saw the light. The best defense is a good offense.
And what's the best place to talk about killing people? In church of course in front of a stained glass window. I'm so proud.

Come on Carol. no regrets. Non, je ne regrette rien. Having a conscience during a zombie apocalypse is a nuisance. You just kill people if you need to. Don't think about it. Don't write it in your journal. You can't afford thinking about things like morality or ethics.

How did we (Europeans) manage to kill most native Americans in the fifteenth century without weighing heavily on our conscience? By using the oldest trick in the genocide book. Just dehamunize them. They're just bunch of savages without a moral compass. The pope at the time instructed the Spanish in 1452 while they were 'discovering' the world "to invade, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens, pagans, and other enemies of Christ, to put them into perpetual slavery, and to take away all their possessions and property."

the US supreme court confirmed it in 1823: "The tribes of Indians inhabiting this country were fierce savages, whose occupation was war, and whose subsistence was drawn chiefly from the forest. To leave them in possession of their country, was to leave the country a wilderness.”

That's how we do it baby. If it's wrong we just twist it in something right. Under that ultra thin layer of (Christian) civilization and piety hides a violent beast. That's us. Human beings. I rest my case.
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Mar 07, 2016
Another great episode and another 'not enough action' whine from Tim the douche
This is coming from a guy who laps up all of the pointless character 'development' on Game Of Thrones?
I would easily take the pointless relationship drama from this show over every scene that includes the sand snakes on GoT any day

It's so cliche when people whine about wanting this show to be action packed because it is about zombies - the human drama is important too

it was a great episode and a great set up of what's to come with the saviours

Abraham said some cold stuff to Rosita - the irony is he is way out of her leave

i loved the Carol stuff, i love that Gabriel is becoming likeable, Morgan is REALLY getting on my nerves, that Hilltop guy saying the saviours have nothing on Rick (in terms of scary) was hilarious, i loved the attack on the compound
And when Alicia Witt called Rick, Prick i got a Young Ones flash back

People calling Rick's plan ridiculous - right, i get it, it's obviously gonna bite them in the ass resulting in a main character death but come on, it's the Zombie Apocalypse, you do whatever you can to survive and i don't care what people say - you would go along with it because of the lack of food in the world - you people are only reacting this way because you have seen Rick's plans fail
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Mar 07, 2016
Human drama is fine it's when it becomes a hindrance to the pacing, stagnates and is distracting where it becomes an issue. The scenes that feel separate to the storytelling where like Carol is standing there and Morgan comes over and they have dialogue aside from what's happening in the moment. Carol and the guy with the cookies and the mom speech, etc... For me these slow the pace down and distract in contrast to the Carol/Rosita scene, the Abraham/Rosita scene, the Glenn/Heath(?) scene which were in the moment with the story pacing and didn't distract. It doesn't have to be all action all the time and someone dying every episode or some big reveal or whatever... but i would like the flow of the story and it's pacing to keep me engaged and immersed throughout which those type of scenes take me out of it.
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Mar 07, 2016
It wasn't a complaint of "not enough action" I mean, a good chunk of this episode was just action. The complaint was more "repetitive and pointless scenes." This has always been a problem with TWD around this time, these episodes are largely pointless and lead to a disappointing season finale that only exists to set up the next season.

They could at least use the downtime to promote character growth, but they just kinda gloss over that and instead give us town house scenes that we've already seen. Morgan doesn't want them to kill? Man, thank god we got that original dialogue that hasn't totally been his plot already this whole season. Just look at how much that plotline has grown, he started off talking about how they shouldn't kill...to still talking about how they shouldn't kill. And that's a big problem, most characters are reduced to simplified version where they have one trait and no depth beyond that. Morgan only talks about peace, Denise has been largely defined by her relationship with Tara, which is a shame because they did set up more interesting stuff with her being a doctor, but that's just been dropped and now all her dialogue seems to revolve around being Tara's girlfriend. Same deal with Tara, she just talks about Denise.

Some of the characters, namely the older cast, are a little more dynamic. But even this stuff with Carol is a rehash of her last arc, where she was doing all the hard things because she didn't want anyone else to.

Rosita was Abraham's girlfriend, that was about it. I admit, her comic counterpart isn't exactly a huge plot character, but they could have done something more with her. It's just not interesting because they expect us to care about these characters that they don't invest any time in. Human drama is fine, but it doesn't work in these episodes featuring so many characters. The original Morgan episode dealt out a ton of character development, and that worked because there were basically just 2 characters on screen for the majority of the time. A character actually changed! We saw visible growth, we saw them discussing the world, it was good. And since then? Every scene with Morgan has just been a repeat of the lessons he learned in that one character development episode.

This wasn't a good setup of what was to come, because even that was a repeat of what we've seen before. The saviors were established at the start of the mid season finale. It was a good intro, it established Neegan, it showed how ruthless and thuggish the saviors were, it made them feel dangerous, and it hinted at their larger numbers/the fact they've been doing this for awhile. They got out of it, but it required the use of a missile launcher. And it wasn't like that was a special group, it was just a random patrol that stumbled upon them. I think this actually established them as less of a threat, since Rick and co. were able to pretty readily murder them. Yeah, two people were captured, but I mean...one of them is pregnant, and, as everyone was pointing out, shouldn't have been there at all to begin with.
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Mar 07, 2016
Sorry but downtime for character growth? they had that and you still called it pointless.....

tell me what character growth you would be happy with?
they gave Morgan growth for the excellent fourth episode and people called it pointless, a waste of time and a bad episode (HA)
They developed Abraham last week and people said it sucked
They keep making Rick more ruthless and people are calling his decisions dumb
They gave Maggie and Glenn a baby and people are whining
They Paired Rick and Michonne together and people called it a teen drama
They pair Tara and Denise together and people say she's too pointless to develop
They let Maggie make her own decisions to join the sneak attack on the compound and people are calling it dumb
Carol is still a ruthless woman who feels guilty about the people she has killed (intentionally or inadvertently) and people whine about her character running in circles - she kisses someone and people are whining
Father Gabriel has manned up and people are saying it is a waste of character development
Rosita get's dumped and people are saying the scene was worthless because they haven't developed her character but if they did they would whine about it

oh and Daryl is still an under developed character yet people STILL LOVE HIM no matter what

That just proves my point about people who watch this show

they are never happy

this week was a great instalment with some development for characters that never get development and people are STILL moaning

yet they lap up the mid-season premiere which was a very flawed episode IMO - this week's and last weeks episode were the best the show has been since that awesome Morgan episode

That is why i have a go at people who love GoT's character development yet constantly shit on this show when they try and develop characters people whine about not being developed

PEOPLE JUST LOVE TO MOAN

Oh and if you truly think that the attack on the compound negated the threat of Negan then you are very wrong - the compound attack made me even more excited for his debut than i have ever been

this show is not perfect - and it does drag it's feet for the majority of it's season but so do A LOT of shows (GoT, Mr BORING ROBOT) but they get constantly praised - i just don;'t get it
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Mar 07, 2016
Love scene in the church when Rick asks if anyone has something to say and everyone turns to look at Morgan. Everyone knew before he opened his mouth what he was going to say.
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Mar 07, 2016
Is Tim ever satisfied? Spoiler alert: No. He's like the anti-Goldilocks:

Slow character episode? "Waah, this episode was too slow, it was just about relationships and spending time with characters I don't care about... because the show hasn't spent enough time making me care about these characters. Is it too much to ask for some zombie-killing in this zombie show?"

Fast zombie-slashin' episode? "Waah, this episode was too action-packed, it all just blurred together into a meaningless tide of hack-and-slash without any meaningful character development. Is it too much to ask for some character development in this survival drama?"

A combination of both? "Waah, this episode was just right too much, cramming in both character development and zombie-killing action but unable to spend enough time on either to make them work. Is it too much to ask for a bit of focus from this supposedly-great show?"

Ugh, I hate it when Tim gets a show I like from the TV.com office pool. I mean, literally anyone but him... or Cory.
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Mar 08, 2016

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Mar 07, 2016
I like the characters but I really do not care who is with who. It is like High School on this site sometimes. Why are they together and why isn't so & so together. I thought more people would be talking about Glenn killing his first Human. Morgan making a Cell Door, etc
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Mar 08, 2016
It was a cell door!! I really didn't know what he was making. Thanks for clarifying. I thought they handled Glenn's first kill exceptionally well.
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Mar 08, 2016
That was handled and acted out perfect. Almost made me cry. I did tear up alittle.
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Mar 07, 2016
Tim, I feel like you've reached an impasse with this show and maybe you should pass the baton -the reviewing shtick - to someone who semi-enjoys it at least.

Most of your reviews lately are complaining about how TWD is doing the same thing over and over, or going over the same themes over and over again -don't you notice you're doing the same thing with your reviews?
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Mar 07, 2016
I mean...he reviews the shows, he has to react to the material that's given to him. He can't write about the show doing different things if it's doing the same things.
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Mar 07, 2016
Well, regarding zombie apocalypses and the resultant bad people who survive-- here's a little tip for everyone. When it hits the fan, if you happen to be in rural Georgia or anywhere nearby, immediately head north or west.
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Mar 07, 2016

Surprisingly, this is the first time I have taken Rick's side in a while but he was absolutely right with this plan. Instead of waiting for the Saviors to attack, they took fate into their own hands and Morgan is a moron for even suggesting that they just ask them to surrender...like no Morgan, no!

Also, Maggie is a complete idiot for going in the first place. She's pregnant and should not be going on missions that involve large amounts of murder, just sayin'. Obviously Glenn is going to trade himself for Maggie so the baby can live...ugh, I hope I'm wrong.

If anyone is interested, check out my review/recap w/ original memes and gifs from the episode: http://mikeydislikesit.com/walking-dead-not-tomorrow-yet-review/

In all seriousness though, I can't stop laughing at Rick doing this:
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Mar 07, 2016
Wow, an ill conceived plan where there are consequences for others but not for him. Must be a Rick plan. I don't get, I really don't get how they could have survived this long. He, with his lack of foresight, planning, adaptability, fathering, leadership, anything really, should have gotten himself and the rest of the group killed many times over. That was on par in regards to stupid plans as was the million walker march.

First and foremost it was not to succeed from the get go. You do not let a person that is mentally compromised on a mission. Maggie is mentally compromised, she is not working for herself anymore, she isn't working for Glenn as well either, she has a life growing inside her. What prevented her from going outside of the line with the walkers overran the town is the same thing that would prevent her from going the extra mile in this mission. She shouldn't have been allowed to go. Plan and simple. That is on Rick as a leader to prevent her from coming and compromise the mission. It was a bad choice by her and a worse one by Rick.

Second, you are striking an unknown group of people in a structure that you have't put eyes on. Th more prudent way of going about it is to put eyes on it. You can't trust the guys from the Hilltop, they couldn't even get the windows right. You have to scout it. Send Glenn and Jesus to scout it, then you would have found out that there were more then one entry and exit point. They could have found out at least an estimate of a number of the group and had a better idea of the building itself and that they had electricity and possibly an alarm. Stationed Maggie and Carol in a better place so they don't get random passers by coming up on them. Then you could have had a better plan of attack. And then they didn't even clear the whole entire building. And they left their trump card of the RPGs

Overall, once again they were lucky. For crying out loud these are first year problems that they should be well passed by now.

"This is how we eat" Well yea, because it has been apparently 2 months since the attack and you can't figure out how to survive. You find lakes to fish, rivers to fish. You head to a library and pick out the book on edible plants. You find game trails, trap birds. Virginia has a number of flora and fauna to choose from, they have largely mammals like bears, to lizards and snakes, a bunch of birds, fish etc. None of this is new, the fact that you lot are incapable, still, of doing this is just plain ridiculous at this point. You can't be this bad at survival and still be alive. Luck can only get you so far. They have put themselves in this position. To say something like what Rick did, as if it is out of their control is bullshit. And this goes towards the question of whether or not they are still good.

I am going to go with no. Not that that is a bad thing. We can not judge what people do in an apocalypse by the current standards of society. But the show is sure desperate to keep them in the good. That was the reason or the pictures above the man's cot that Glenn saw. They had to remind the viewers that these weren't good people. But, they are the result of of their circumstance. If they are incapable of surviving by regular means then they need to do things. Some things that they are going to have to do will be bad. It doesn't make the good or bad, it makes them survivors.

Overall I think the stuff they did wrong far outweighed what they did right.
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Mar 07, 2016
Sorry but that seems like the most petty complaints ever lol.

Also, it's always based on hindsight which is compromising. For example, if Maggie and Carol weren't compromised the screw would've successfully assaulted the compound and came away with treasure and to their knowledge the deal with Hilltop and right there eliminates half of your complaints.

I think people are too quick to base things on hindsight in their judgements or what privileged information they have as viewers looking in from the outside. That's just my feeling.
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Mar 08, 2016
I wouldn't say that survival is petty. And it certainly isn't hindsight, Rick shouldn't have brought Maggie to the Hilltop let alone to this. She is compromised and a good leader would realize it. She can do more in Alexandria than she can at the any mission they want to put her on. I have issues with it because she, at our first meeting her was a badass character that has slowly devolved.

The rest of my complaints are how they intend to survive and how they found themselves in the situation they currently are in. 2 months after the walker attack and they haven't improved their station one iota. That is problematic, indicative of, within their world, Rick's leadership and frankly poor writing. Their success is based on how the writers force it and their just being lucky overall in regards to how well they do, like how they did with taking the Comms center.

I would just like better writing.
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Mar 08, 2016
Fair enough but i disagree with some of this outlook and do think it's based on hindsight in some respects.

Maggie can make her own decisions and Rick respects that. she isn't under Rick's control. She's the one who made the deal in the first place and not Rick and for that reason she felt a sense of duty to be a part of the mission. Maggie's one of my favorite characters in the series, probably top 3 and i still think she's a badass character she's just grown in her role to more responsibility and leadership which doesn't always translate to kicking ass or doing badass things.

I think you're underestimated the aspect of surprise. That is an extreme factor. If even 1 person has surprise on their side they have a chance to take out a whole room. Not only did they have surprise, they had an inside man and intel on top of it. This wasn't a terrible idea all things considered with what they know. There's no reason to think that these people will be prepared for Maggie covering the perimeter because these people in the compound aren't expecting anything other than a few Hilltop people and their guard will be down as it was which what played in the success of the assault mission.

Under most circumstances Maggie and Carol staying back would be fine, that is the entire point of where we're at though... that these aren't normal circumstances. The world that everyone knew isn't the world that is... for all the threat the Governor was, they haven't seen anything yet. What they've encountered and experienced and survived still hasn't prepared them for what's to come. So... what some people i don't think are factoring into all of this is that it's extraordinary circumstances. There aren't many big bads like Negan. Their world is going to get much bigger than the sum of their experiences.

To be honest, i think you're dissecting and analyzing it too much from a writing point of view and outside of it with distance rather than looking from inside the story. In the sh*t. At the heart from within going outward. The entire story so far our characters have been fighting their asses off to survive, around every turn at every move they've fought for this. There's barely been time to breathe let alone this idea that they can have this utopian survival scenario of everything working out perfectly and logical from that distant viewpoint.. Yes, some things are sacrificed for entertainment and that's just a part of it and as a compromise viewers have to look past some things in understanding it's not completely realistic.

There could always be better writing, the story could always be better. It's never going to reach perfection. If you let go of looking at it all from that vantage point with hindsight and outside judgement you might enjoy it more.



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Mar 08, 2016
I agree with everything you've said here.

"Maggie can make her own decisions and Rick respects that. she isn't under Rick's control."

Rick has always shown great respect to the people in his group, and that's one of the reasons I love him. Maggie isn't some helpless female who needs to be told by a man to stay home.

"If you let go of looking at it all from that vantage point with hindsight and outside judgement you might enjoy it more."


People are looking at it in hindsight, yes, but also foresight. POSSIBLE SPOILERS...

You can't read the comments on this site or any other corner of the internet without being spoiled because people are constantly talking about the Negan story line in the comics and the inevitable demise of a beloved character. If I was completely in the dark about comic Negan, then I would be looking at these last few episodes a lot differently. People know that things are about to get really bad, so they're nitpicking at every decision Rick and his group are making like every move is idiotic. Rick truly believes he is making the right call. Rick and the group don't know the consequences of their actions until it all plays out. I wish I didn't know, either. I would be enjoying this season a lot more if I had been able to avoid those spoilers. Really hoping that the writers veer from the comics for the rest of the season so there are some surprises.

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Mar 07, 2016
Seriously, these are some of the worst writers in television. Every week they insult the viewer with less than intelligent writing and the viewers eat it up and return the following week for more. They know they'll (*cringe* we'll) be back no matter how much they dumb shit down or make these previously intelligent characters do the most asinine out-of-character things. There's absolutely no frickin way Maggie should have or would have been there but they needed her as a plot device so there she was. Of course.
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Mar 07, 2016
I am wondering how the HIlltop Colony has so much food. Granted, we probably did not see the whole colony last week, but I didn't see any crops--a couple of garden beds in the front. Also have to wonder why Negan hasn't just taken their colony. They have spears for weapons, no artillery. Why does Negan have to bargain for their food? He could just take the colony and keep alive the HIlltop members who are skilled at agriculture, medicine, etc. Maybe Negan isn't as bad as we have been led to believe.

Agree about Maggie having no place on the mission but think it's a set-up for Carol's death. We'll see.

Once again, whom did they leave behind in Alexandria to protect the safe zone? Carl and Spencer?
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Mar 07, 2016
You forgot Eugene!!! The Killing Machine LOL
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Mar 07, 2016
Oh and I have no idea how they get their food. The only way would be to have their fields outside of the compound somewhere. Because the muddy field isn't going to be great for it.
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Mar 07, 2016
Well, it is merely a delegation. If you know that through threat you can get people to work for you. They are isolated, they have their own government and you don't have to do anything but collect their food every so often. You get all of the benefits of the Hilltop without any of the problems. If you take the colony and leave those skilled workers alive, then you are responsible for them. Which takes people away from your camp and puts them watching the people at the Hilltop. Those people, naturally would likely abuse their power and their workers and cause more problems. So to delegate all of that to Gary and the Hilltop is rather ingenious. I would say that he is bad, because for whatever reason he wanted more. And then he also demanded Gary's head.

I agree with you on Carol, she is going to sacrifice herself for Maggie.

Yea, one eyed Carl and the girl was going to protect everyone. Toss in Morgan too if he can be pulled away from arts and crafts.
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Mar 07, 2016
Good points about Negan's strategy, but he still has Gregory to worry about--I suppose that's why he wanted his head but then who would be in charge with Gregory gone? Maybe Negan would send one person to be in control. However, there's the chance that other groups we haven't met yet are out there and could pose a threat to Hilltop--and to Negan's food supply--so If Negan is smart, he should make sure the Colony is well protected with armed guards.
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Mar 07, 2016
Since the end of the Zombie Horde everyone is so crazy about the time line. It does not matter to me what the exact time or date it is. Time has past get over it. No one is keeping track of what Month or day it is. No has said tomorrow is Carls birthday lets have cake. Would you be keeping track after all the time. No. Back in the Past people had no idea what year or date it was and did not really care.
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Mar 07, 2016
Partially agree, at least in the sense that the audience shouldn't care so much. TWD has pretty much just handwaved that "time happened" and that's fine. Disagree with it not mattering. In universe, they seem to still keep track of time, and time was definitely a thing that people cared about in the past, since it had so much to do with growing crops and what not.
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Mar 07, 2016
But they went by natures time lines. They still had no idea what the exact day or month. My grandmother went by moon cycles for her planting and temperature of the soil.
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Mar 07, 2016

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Mar 07, 2016
"Is she bad at math? Or did I miss something?"
I think the extra 3 that Carol didn't specifically list in her murder journal are Sam, Sofia, and that woman that got killed because she was smoking outside (because Carol shamed her for smoking in the house) when the Wolves attacked Alexandria. I think she blames herself for their deaths even though she didn't physically kill them herself, so she is including them in her final total. I could be wrong, but that's just my interpretation of the numbers discrepancy from her murder list.
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Mar 07, 2016
My theory after watching "Not Tomorrow Yet", is that Carol is going to sacrifice herself to save Maggie.
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Mar 07, 2016
Here's the only issues I have with this review/recap:

"But ugh, what really was the point of these scenes? None of them set up anything for later, they weren't called back at any point, and they were never spoken of again." I find this complaint and reasoning to be extremely flawed and unfair. I have a feeling at least some of these hook ups and breaks ups are going to play a part in what will happen in the rest of the episodes this season, and these decisions may be foreshadowing some things to come. It's unfair to criticize and claim these scenes were useless time waisters just because there was no immediate payoff in this same episode.

"A motorcyclist tore out of the compound (just go with it)" That was Daryl's motorcycle, that those two runaway ex-saviors stole from Daryl earlier in the second half of the season after he had helped them escape Negan's men. That's why Daryl asked him where he got it.

Overall, I thought "Not Tommorow Yet" was an excellent set-up episode, and I really enjoyed it.
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Mar 07, 2016
My problem with the whole arc of the saviors story is the history of what the show does when our heroes come across bad guys. The season builds up for the confrontation and then it's settled in about 1 1/2 episodes.
However, there were a couple things that stuck out for me in this episode. First, Glenn saw the Polaroids (or whatever) of the results that meeting Lucille had with the various victims. Could this be mean that once he sees Lucille he's going to know exactly what's about to go down and how those people in the pictures ended up in that condition? Does he volunteer to take Maggie's place if Negan chooses her?
My other observation is Carol smoking. Since when? Is her smoking meant to make us wonder if she's cracking up?
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Mar 07, 2016
I think that Morgan is building something for Glenn and Maggie's baby.
I really love that Father of the Apocalypse vibe that Gabriel has going on, keep it up!! Finally, he's interesting.
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Mar 07, 2016
Looked like a Cell Door to me. Better late than never on building a Cell.
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Mar 07, 2016
I must admit, it was heartening to see Father G channel his inner Jules Winnfield. Maybe there's a Big Kahuna Burger nearby...
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Mar 08, 2016
Jules...


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Mar 07, 2016
Question for the comic readers: did it happen this way in the comics, or did Rick have more of a reason for attacking first? Or did Negan's group attack first? From what I've read, comic Rick seems like a smarter and more reasonable person.
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Mar 08, 2016
I was surprised last week that they changed somewhat the premise of the Saviors' existence. In the show, Prick Gregory I. told the Alexandrians that the Saviors showed up and forced them to give up half of their produce or else they'd kill them. In the books, the Saviors actually provided a service by successfully keeping the walkers at bay, so that each settlement protected by Negan won't need to bother about Walkers anymore. For me that's interesting, the Saviors weren't that bad in the books...
However, it's possible that Prick Gregory I. kept that detail from the Alexandrians in order to paint a more insufferable picture of the Saviors, and they will learn of this lie sooner or later. But - I wouldn't count on that.
In the books, the Saviors showed up first at Alexandria and I think it ended badly for them... later Negan made his first memorable appearance as a reaction to that incident. So I'd say there is more back - and - forth in the show, but also Rick's group has less of a clue how strong Negan's group really is. Did they kill 90%? Or 9%?
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Mar 07, 2016
In the comics, a lot happens. Ricks group kill a bunch of saviours who threaten them( we have seen this with daryl, sasha, abe) then as payback the saviours kill Abe with an arrow throw the eye as he is patrolling with Eugene (which was also said in a previous ep that abe and Eugene would be going out patrolling). Glen is also killed when they eventually see negan in person. He does a "eenie meanie miny mo" thing and chooses Glenn to brutally bash his brains in with lucille. These death pushes Rick to do something. He calls a meeting, they talk, they wanna confront these bad guys ASAP. Carl sneaks out and ends up in saviours place. Megan spots him and they have a lonnngggg talk. Then Rick notices Carl's gone and another confrotnation ensues. More stuff happens but I can't remember from my compendium 3 but in the end Alexandria, The Hilltop and the other safe place (guy called Ezekiel and his pet tiger shiva are from there) OH it's called the Kingdom but anyway.... They 3 team up and defeat saviours eventually but many lives are lost. Sorry if this was vague or wrong.
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Mar 07, 2016
They've changed this up quite a bit from the comic. Without being too spoilerish there is a lot more back and forth between the two groups with Negan's group making first contact at Alexandria.

The biggest thing that has bugged me about the "war" in both this episode and the comic is how little effort is made to recon the enemy prior to armed conflict.
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Mar 07, 2016
"The biggest thing that has bugged me about the "war" in both this episode and the comic is how little effort is made to recon the enemy prior to armed conflict."

That's what chapped me. The hilltop guy draws a sketchy map with a couple of rooms on it and in they go! No week long surveillance or tracking saviors as they come and go? Just stupid. Rick has always been a dummy but for crikey sake, the whole group now?
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Mar 07, 2016
Something about this episode didn't work for me. I'm not sure what it was.

Did Rick make the right decision in attacking? I really don't know. He made good points, but then I started thinking about people like the woman that helped steal Daryl's Bike. She wasn't a terrible person, she was just trying to survive. And she was part of Negan's group. On the other hand, I guess in war you can't think about every soldier who deserves it and who doesn't.

But I think what spoiled the episode for me was how rushed it all was. They try to build on like 4 different relationships (I'm including Glenn and the dreads guy) in a major action episode, and because of that none of those 4 felt authentic. I felt like they could have used this whole episode as a tension builder, concentrated on relationships between characters we actually care about, and had more of the group questioning whether or not shooting first and asking questions later was really the right way to go.
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Mar 07, 2016
You forgot about Mika..and didn't she kill that Terminus guy that Tyreese couldn't?

Anyway, yeah, some recon might have made some sense. Probably because the vast majority of us know that wasn't the end because it isn't really a spoiler that the answer to Michonne's question, was none of them. I also sort of wondered, and this could be because Carol wasn't quite in the mood I think Rick was counting on her being in. Because, I sort of think that the armory should have been less important than, well, setting some bombs off. But yeah, that none of them maybe questioned that if Negan's group seemed as established as Rick's maybe they weren't having people come to the main site. I had an off thought, there was some discussion on some more spoiler related boards that the events that happened at the Hilltop were so closely related to what happened in the comic and that there wasn't much that happened between those events and Negan, that there seemed to be more episodes than material left if Negan wasn't really showing up until the season finale as most people were guessing. My thought came to this, I know those women had a radio channel on the same as that guy did, but I wonder if they were not exactly Saviors, but like those people who stole Daryl's bike back in the first half. People who are trying to escape.

Hey, I suspect Morgan is building a jail (cell at least). I forget what Morgan said he did before all of this, but I recall from some classes that most societies that are community based tend to build two buildings first, one a church that can also serve as a meeting house and the other a jail. Alexandria has had its church but not really a jail.
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Mar 08, 2016
Carol didn't kill Mika, Lizzie did. And, if I remember correctly, I think that Carol and Daryl were off trying to find Beth when Rick and the group had their final confrontation with terminus at Gabriel's church. So, Carol didn't kill that terminus guy, either.
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Mar 08, 2016
I remembered about Mika about ten minutes after I posted but couldn't do anything about it.
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Mar 07, 2016
"That is, if they ever find Alexandria, which they haven't since the apocalypse started so why would they now?"

This has been a problem with TWD for a LONG time going back to the end of season 2 where the final shot showed the prison off in the distance. Despite there only being a handful of roads, it took them 7 months to find it.

That theme was touched on again when Abraham found the RPGs in that town that apparently nobody's discovered?

Best just to go with it taking WAY longer or no time at all to find various places in this world.

"With their murder tour set, The Walking Dead passed some time with some relationship catch-ups. This is nothing new to The Walking Dead, but here—particularly in this sequence of relationship check-ins—it was incredibly obvious that this ensemble is too big and there isn't enough time for all the characters. It's time to thin the herd, methinks."


It's definitely time to thin the herd...in the writers room. The "By the way..." style of story telling is awfully weak. I know TWD doesn't like to take a little time to establish any type of relationship, but even by their standards, this was terribly lazy.

"I loved the idea of searching for a decoy Gregory head by honking horns and attracting a bunch of zombies to cut their heads off. It's convenient many of them weren't in an advanced state of decay and had grey hair, too!"

Shhh...crazy talk. So much effort that went into the one piece of continuity on the show (levels of walker decay as time passes) and these dummies managed to find not one, not two, but three male walkers, recently turned, who all have some resemblence to Gregory.

Okay TWD, whatever you say.

"Thankfully, the Saviors took weapons training at the Stormtrooper Academy for Firearms"

You're not surprised by this, are you?
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Mar 07, 2016
Never understood why some people are so overly critical of this show. It's not supposed to be nonstop action from beginning to end. It's not Cranked. It's drama with a little bit of action. Just like the books they were based on. Not sure where these expectations came from and why they are so high.
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Mar 07, 2016
To some people, a show with zombies should be about murder murder death. A show about survival and zombies should be about forage forage scavenge murder murder death. Such things alone don't make a good story though. We need some human drama along with our murder murder death.
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Mar 07, 2016
TIM! Where is the usual poll "What did you think of.."?! For some reason it always gives me great pleasure to submit my vote for it.

Anyway, I'm just hoping Carol getting all understanding and indulgent with Morgan while only few episodes ago she wanted to KILL him for not letting her kill the wolf (madness, btw) is not a premise to turn her all "hippie-dippy new-agey" too..could you imagine?!

Also Carol kissing this random guy?! Just like that?! No set up at all?
I mean, if they really wanted to give Carol a love storyline they could have just taken advantage of all the set up they already had with Daryl from the previous seasons. Although it was something that has been ignored by the writers lately, the tension between the two of them has been building since the second season, it would have made perfect sense! Plus it would have been super refreshing to see such a badass and yet very unsual tv couple for once: the typical loner/hot/tormented/rough-but-ultimately-with-a-heart-of-gold type of guy (essentially the heart-breaker of the series) ending up with the older-not-so-hot-but-totally-awesome-middle-aged-woman (essentially TWD's version of Desperate Housewives*).

Instead they preferred to couple characters like Rick and Michonne who have known each other for years and never showed any kind of love interest or attraction before, a part from the fact that Michonne seemed to have taken the role of some sort of big sister for Carl..bah!

*How cool would it be a crossover between TWD and DHs where Carol ends up in a post-zombie-apocalypse settlement in Wisteria Lane? I can just imagine Bree Van De Kamp baking muffins for everybody and then, still wearing her apron, kill a dozen of zombies with her kitchen knife: the perfect Carol's counterpart.
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Mar 07, 2016

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Mar 07, 2016
Surely you can't be serious!
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Mar 07, 2016
It's Victor, not Shirley
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Mar 07, 2016
I am, and stop calling me Shirley!
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Mar 07, 2016
The relationships on TWD are handled like most relationships on TV these days - very poorly. Two people talk for like 5 minutes and bam - they're in love and shit. WTF ?! Morgan's preechy shit is not less annoying even if he toned it down a bit. Rick should've asked how many people accepted his retarded offer. My bet is on a number less than 1. And the unnecessary drama about killing all those helpless friendly people that stake out roads to murder other people. Will this show ever grow up ?
Pretty much the only meaningful part of the episode was the firefight and after. Rest was like most of TWD - a pile of dog poop.
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Mar 07, 2016
They couldn't be sure that the entire group murdered people on roads. As it happens, some of the people are kinda in the group against their will. Sort of. There's a good chance they murdered some people who didn't want to be in Negan's group at all.
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