The Walking Dead "The Same Boat" Review: A Taut, Terrifying, and Terrific Hour

The Walking Dead S06E13: "The Same Boat"


It's been a while since The Walking Dead has been truly terrifying—I mean TRULY terrifying with a corrosive sense of dread, not just slicing and dicing through mobs of walkers—but "The Same Boat" had me biting my fingernails down to bloody nubs. I'm calling "The Same Boat" the best episode of this half-season even though it didn't match the zombie body count of the blood-and-guts-filled midseason premiere "No Way Out" or the human body count of last week's violent "Not Tomorrow Yet," because it did two things incredibly well and fixed some things that were broken. It put two beloved characters—Carol and Maggie—in the maw of mortal danger, and it matched them with competent and skilled antagonists. It's a simple formula, but the simplest ideas when executed well are often the best. 

"The Same Boat" picked up last week's cliffhanger by cleverly repeating it through a different set of eyes (and binoculars). Carol and Maggie got captured by members of the Saviors, and we now know this splinter group was led by Paula (Justified's Alicia Witt, who was great), and from there, a good-old-fashioned hostage episode unfolded (and I love me a good hostage episode of TV!). 

The opening minutes set the stage for total paranoia brilliantly thanks to some great choices by longtime The Walking Dead director Billy Gierhart. We watched the early stages of the hostage trade that started at the end of "Not Tomorrow Yet" through the P.O.V. of Paula's binoculars, establishing the upper hand that Paula's group had. They could see Rick, but he couldn't see them. They had two of Rick's people, Rick only had one of theirs. And when Paula ordered Maggie and Carol to have their jackets pulled over their heads like hoods, the P.O.V. moved to Carol and Maggie's limited view of everything while Paula chatted over walkie talkies using military jargon in highly coordinated communication with whoever was on the other line. 

Going into this episode, we didn't know who the Saviors were, really, except for a bunch of greasy dudes on bikes who tried to bully Daryl, Abraham, and Sasha, and were stealing resources from the Hilltoppers in exchange for not beating them up. When Rick agreed to exterminate them for Gregory, we had only the word of the wimpy Hilltop community to vouch for the Saviors' abilities, and because the local chess club could have taken Hilltop by force, Gregory's word didn't mean a whole lot. Additionally, Rick's assault, even though it caught the Saviors by surprise, was an entirely lopsided affair in the same league as the Harlem Globetrotters versus the Washington Generals, as indicated by the shutout that Rick's team pitched. No deaths, no casualties, not even a scratch on his side, and total slaughter and complete annihilation of the sleepy Saviors on the other side. Long story short, were any of us impressed by the Saviors at all heading into this episode? I certainly wasn't. I was more scared of Sam Anderson, dead or alive.


But thanks to these directorial choices and organic details that trickled out, the Saviors went from sad to bad in a few moments without pulling a trigger. Obviously it helped that they had control over Maggie and Carol, but Paula and her goons gave the Saviors legitimacy as credible and competent threats before our two favorite survivor ladies were tied up on the killing floor of the Saviors' stash house. All of a sudden these people were an experienced organization, and near mirror images of Rick's group—sometimes down to the individual, as I'll discuss later—in that they were regular people who found a way to survive. They were at least more threatening than the other dead Saviors who couldn't even shoot the side of a barn even if they were inside it. This changed everything and set the stage for the Olympics of mind games that would ensue for the rest of the hour. 

The situation—we had one of theirs, they had two of ours—set up a near stalemate, with the odds slightly favoring Paula because they had backup coming and double the hostages, hence an extra body to drop to get their point across. (Well, they had better odds if you ignore the fact that they weren't the stars of the show.) With Rick uncertain of where they were, it became clear that this episode was all about Maggie and Carol, and they'd have to work their way out of trouble largely on their own. Spoiler! They did, in supremely badass fashion. 

We'll start with Maggie, who has been happy to put her life in extreme danger all season long despite carrying baby Glenn in her belly. She's been stuck by herself on guard towers that were surrounded by walkers, held guns on sketchy men (Jesus) while her friends abandon left her alone to clear buildings, and refused to stay in the safety of Alexandria while the group attacked a gang of well-armed bad guys in their sleep. But after "The Same Boat," I'm borrowing a quote from Breaking Bad's Walter White: she's not in danger, she is the danger! Did you see her at the end there? She was a beast.

Maggie also had an interesting conversation with one of the Saviors, a woman named 'Chelle (Jeananne Goossen), who seemed somewhat protective of Maggie after finding out Maggie was pregnant (she told Molly to stop smoking around her). This subtle connection between the two, gently breathed into the episode by writer Angela Kang, was part of an ongoing theme in the episode that made it even better. 'Chelle and Maggie were two sides of the same coin, with shared experiences (crossing my fingers Maggie doesn't lose her baby, too). 

The similarities between captor and captive were especially noticeable with Paula and Carol, who pre-apocalypse were subservient women in boring stereotypical women roles—Paula was a secretary and Carol was a battered housewife. But the outbreak changed them into hardened killers, where they were able to actualize tougher, though not necessarily better, versions of themselves. Paula's metaphor about boiling certain items was pretty sharp—carrots went soft, eggs became hard, and coffee beans changed the boiling water—and Paula claimed to be coffee beans and said that Carol, who had been sandbagging it as a scared, hyperventilating, religious woman, was a carrot. It turned out that wasn't the case at all; Paula was the egg and Carol was the coffee beans because Carol had done more in this hellish world than just become hardened. She was rewriting the rules of survival and has adapted better than anyone else. 

But if there's one bit of confusion I have from "The Same Boat," it's Carol's recent change in attitude. We saw her fret over her murder journal last week, and this week she had problems killing anyone. Mind you, this is the same woman who killed a child, had no problem killing attackers in Alexandria, wanted to kill Morgan's wolf prisoner, and mercy killed a wounded Alexandrian without thinking about it not too long ago. So I'm a little perplexed at what happened to make her pull back on the violence. Carol has been my favorite character in the show ever since she went through this arc of doing whatever it took to survive, starting with the barbecuing of Karen and David back at the prison. And her arc may have plateaued, hence the writers figured a new arc of guilt was necessary. 

But it's weakening her for me, and more evidence of the series rubber-banding characters—they go to one extreme and then snap back to a mellower medium. (Rick's done that about 50 times in the series.) Is Morgan's nonlethal ethic finding its way into Carol's thinking? Is this the natural progression of humans pushed to the brink? Or are the writers stuck with what to do with her? There are shades of Carol in there still—playing weak and sharpening a crucifix as a tool, for one—but the old Carol would have no problems killing Paula or anyone, particularly if it meant ensuring Maggie's safety, and brushing it off. I just don't totally get this new Carol, and I don't think the show did a good enough job explaining why she's going down this path. At least she was able to kill both 'Chelle and Paula when it came down to it. Nice work, Carol! 

All this, and we still haven't seen Negan unless we're really buying the repeated answer that all Saviors are Negan. I have no idea why they think they're all Negan or what it means unless it's some form of cult indoctrination, but we're going to need some answers and visual evidence that Jeffrey Dean Morgan has actually been cast in this show soon. My guess is that now that he's seen Rick and company decimate his forces—Maggie and Carol added about eight more casualties to Negan's forces, and Rick's group has yet to take a loss—he'll show his face very soon. If he has anyone left, that is. 

I've always said that The Walking Dead is particularly good when it's able to make the danger jump off the screen, and "The Same Boat" did that by putting two beloved characters in that danger and matching them with people who weren't dopes. The propulsive momentum of the overall season story didn't move too much, but "The Same Boat" was incredibly well written, well directed, and well acted. I'll take that any day.



FESTERING BITEMARKS


– You know what else was awesome about this episode? At one point, all the characters that mattered were women, and I barely noticed. Kang created the scenario like it was no big deal, but it kind of is for a show that's so normally filled with men.

– "Smug prick," said one Savior about Rick. Ha, she is so right. 

– Molly called walkers Growlers. Update the local dialect almanac for "zombies." 

– 'Chelle told Maggie that Rick's group wasn't the good guys. There's a lot of truth to that.

– Daryl to Carol: "You good?" Carol: "No." :( 

Comments (187)
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Mar 26, 2016
Once again an outstanding review, very well written. Loved the line about the local chess club. Loved it. I feel this is the best episode to date that represents, almost as a focus, what it has been like on the EXCLUSIVELY female side of the apocalypse. The cost. The toll. The sacrifice. I've mentioned this in more than one forum but (for those over 40), this episode was like a gendered version of Mirror, Mirror in The Original Star Trek where they met more evil versions of themselves. Anybody else remember that? Anyhow, incredible episode that lends itself, surprisingly, to a fair and rigorous academic analysis. Maybe now it win some acting Emmies? Just kidding, it's sci-fi.
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Mar 18, 2016
In the words of the Governor:

You kill or you die...or you die and you kill
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Mar 18, 2016
Great episode! Carol was badass as usual and so was Maggie.
"I'm Neegan shithead." "I'm sorry it had to come to this."

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Mar 17, 2016
I loved Alicia Witt and was sad to see her die. I think Carol had a problem killing her because she could see that they are basically the same person. Good to see Maggie being a bad ass, too!
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Mar 17, 2016
Melissa McBride really deserves an Emmy for this episode. She was soooo good!

Yeah, right. This episode felt like "The Others episode" from Lost.

Alicia Witt was also great as a guest star.
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Mar 16, 2016
Great episode. I'm wondering if Paula was Carol 's mirror of what she could become. Is Negan going to be Rick's mirror of who he could become? Carol is afraid of loosing her humanity, she's not that far gone yet. Paula was just crazy, not even sure why she was existing, if only just to prove to herself she could.
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Mar 17, 2016
Clearly Carol is not that far gone yet. She couldn't shoot Paula and instead pleaded with Paula to flee.

You can bet, had the situation been reversed at that juncture, Paula would have blown Carol's head off without batting an eyelash.

Then at the end of the episode Carol and Maggie collapse into the arms of Daryl and Glenn conveying how destroyed they were by the experience.

The weird thing about Paula was that she was such an incompetent psychopath. She underestimated Carol, allowed Carol to pull Jedi mind tricks, let Carol keep; the rosary and use the crucifix to cut her duct tape bonds and free Maggie, then kill all the Saviors.

Maybe the real Negan makes it work, but so far the Saviors seem the jayvee team of psychopaths in the zombie apocalypse.
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Mar 17, 2016
If anything, I see Paula as an opposing viewpoint: the person who actually enjoys the killing. Doesn't do it unless she has to, but she does enjoy it.

Carol has never enjoyed the killing, it's the reason she couldn't allow herself to feel before Alexandria and why she was so afraid during this episode.

Paula killed so she would feel superior. To her boss, to her captives, to the apocalypse itself. Carol killed because she has to, she doesn't feel superior because she's good at it, if anything it's the opposite.
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Mar 18, 2016
I interpreted Paula's character differently. I don't think she enjoyed killing, I think she was numb to it. This is where the contrast between Carol and Paula comes in. Paula can kill and not let it affect her whereas Carol can kill but feels it. I don't think Paula killed to feel superior. If she was killing just for enjoyment or for a feeling of superiority, she would have killed Maggie and Carol from the get go. And when that man wanted to kill them, she stopped him and reminded him that they had to be smart. Both Carol and Paula are smart, they both know what needs to be done and they do it. They're just having opposite internal reactions to what they've done. Paula is guilt-free, and Carol is wracked with guilt.
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Apr 02, 2016
Rick is numb to killing, Morgan was numb to killing until he met Eastman, Michonne has always been numb to killing. Paula enjoyed it, she knew when to do it and when to wait for it and she felt proud of it.

Carol isn't Rick or Michonne, she isn't numb to killing and was reaching a point in which she didn't even have to anymore. Carol didn't hesitate to kill Paula because it was smart - like Paula did with her - she just didn't want to do it.
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Mar 16, 2016
"Rick's group wasn't the good guys. There's a lot of truth to that"

Yes, yes there is. And it's when I realized that, I started enjoying the show again. I root for whomever puts as much hurt as possible on Rick and his psychopathic band of merry followers. I hear Negan is going to put them through hell. Good on him.

Everyone has a show they hate watch, this is mine.
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Mar 17, 2016
I'm almost there with you. If Rick does one more bone-head move....
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Mar 16, 2016
'Rick's group are not the good guys. There's a lot of truth to that'

I personally don't think that's true at all. Most of the group have at some point killed a human. But not because they want to or take any pleasure in it, but it's because it's killed or be killed or keeping someone else in the group safe.

Then they all have different reactions to it (or lack there off) but like Aaron said when he first showed up that no matter how bad things got they never turned on each other.

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Mar 16, 2016
I personally don't think that's true at all.

Me neither. Rick and the group get close to the edge often enough, but they have not given up and gone psychopath like the Governor, the Terminoids, the Wolves and now the Saviors, who will kill anyone and everyone without remorse. Note how shaken Carol and Maggie are at the end of this episode.

But that's the equivalency the TWD writers are selling and I am not buying. It seems like dishonest writing to me.

No, Rick and his group are not in The Same Boat -- yet -- with everyone else.
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Mar 17, 2016
I'm not going to justify it because it's Rick: they were hunting people down, in their sleep.

Just because I'm privy to their point of view it doesn't make it correct.
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Mar 19, 2016
Although it is kinda hard to feel sorry for a group of people who bash people's brains in for fun and take pictures of the bodies for souvenirs....
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Mar 17, 2016
Elsewhere I've criticized the murder-for-food deal as immoral, as extermination, as death squad activity, and as a violation of their characters by the writers.

But unless this becomes the new normal for Rick's crew, it's not the remorseless psychopathic killing we've seen from the Terminoids, Wolves, and the Saviors. Remember, the Saviors were going to kill Daryl, Abraham and Sasha without any justification and with a certain amount of sadistic glee.

Not even Rick is that bad.
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Mar 16, 2016
I keep thinking that part of Carol's problem is that they are on the wrong side of history in a way. They are looking to be the aggressor now. They aren't killing to defend themselves but basically being mercenaries. It wouldn't surprise me if Carol is going through a bit of PDST.
What is really shocking is how Maggie is becoming a bit of a psychopath. Dang she had a crazy stare going at the end.
And how does these ppl not shoot one another? If I open a door and see a gun pointed at me, I'm probably going to shoot out of reflex.
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Mar 16, 2016
They aren't killing to defend themselves but basically being mercenaries.

That didn't happen until this deal with Hilltop to kill the Saviors in exchange for food. I thought it was out of character for Maggie and Rick to accept such a deal.

Though to be somewhat fair, the Saviors motorcycle gang would have killed Daryl, Abraham and Sasha if they hadn't underestimated Daryl and Daryl was lucky enough to be able to pull an RPG out of his pocket.
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Mar 17, 2016
True and even the lady Saviors seemed to agree with that to some level. Of course, Carol left out that they weren't looking for them all those months.
I find it difficult to imagine that they can't scavenge or hunt enough for their food. Granted the DC region can have terrible winters but still.
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Mar 17, 2016
I find it difficult to imagine that they can't scavenge or hunt enough for their food.

Likewise. And I don't see how they could have been so blindsided by the food problem. Maybe the original Alexandrians would have stayed on autopilot until they were starving, but not Rick's group.

Sadly, it just seems a shortcut for the writers to force the horrible Hilltop deal so we could have this Big Moral Dilemma about Rick's group discovering they are not the Good Guys and in The Same Boat with the Saviors and all the other groups which went psychopath.

I'd be a lot happier if the writers would tell the stories they started -- How did the Wolves become the Wolves? What is Enid up to? What happened to the damn gun Rick left in the coffee pot? -- instead of all this flabby virtue-signaling.
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Mar 15, 2016
Great episode I agree with Tim review above when they have a week with less character the drama and tension is better , still waiting for Neagan though . But these episodes are building up the Rick's group as the protagonists in the conflict, I like the way their were similarities to Carol and Paula both fed up with taking shit in their past lives. Carol was trying to be reasonable but that doesn't exist in this world. Maggie is certainly taking a big risk as well but I am sure Glenn will be more overprotective of her now.
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Mar 15, 2016
I have frequently disagreed with Tim on things related to the walking dead but I certainly agree with him that the saviors were way to easy to kill. It could have been handled more realistically,perhaps, by having more of the saviors killed in their sleep before they had a chance to fight back and then having a couple of Rick's group wounded in the gun battle. They could have had a couple more of the Alexanderians go on the mission and then die the way they used to do it on star trek (red uniform = dead on the planet). Finally, if they plan on losing a major character like they usually do each season, this would be the perfect time to have a "noble" death.
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Mar 15, 2016
strong episode!!
the use of one single set and still so good
well done
cant wait for the final 3 episodes.....negan is comming, closer... and closer... BAM!
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Mar 15, 2016
Overall a good episode. TWD can do great when it takes some time to focus on just one or two characters instead of trying to juggle a large cast. Maggie really hasn't had that much focus, she's mostly just been standing around, only really getting a moment recently with the diplomatic stuff, and even that wasn't really new ground for her. Carol has certainly gotten a good deal of attention, but it does feel like it's been a little while since she was that much of a focus, but that's probably because of the mid season break.

Here's my personal take on Carol's arc, which might be nothing more than fan speculation. A big reason that Carol had to become the hardass survivor type is because nobody else was. When she burned whatstheirfaces in the prison, she did it because nobody else was willing to take charge and be the bad guy. She definitely wasn't happy about killing people, but she's an ends justifies the means kind of girl.

And that's how she's been for awhile. She's willing to do all the awful things to keep everyone safe, and to keep them from being the ones to get their hands excessively dirty. She just wants them to get their hands a little dirty. People need to be able to defend themselves, but she doesn't want everyone to be willing to burn infected people alive or kill children.

Everyone else is starting to get hardened, but more than Carol wants. She doesn't want everyone being as naive as the Alexandrians first were, but she doesn't want them being as much of a hardass as she is. But everyone is tipping more towards the darker side of things, which is what I think is taking it's toll on Carol. Lighter characters like Glenn are willing to straight up murder people in their sleep, a pregnant Maggie isn't only willing, but feels like she has to go out and help them fight and murder. A few weeks ago, she also saw the naive Alexandrians all take up arms and murder their way through zombies.

Basically, Carol was taking this all on so they could still have some semblance of normalcy and innocence, but now she sees that it was basically all for naught. I think that's making her rethink everything that she's done, and even how much she might have influenced everyone. To top it off, she just got a very real look into "what could have been" not just on a personal level, but also what the group could be turning into. They're pretty much Savior-lite at this point.

I think the writers might be taking inspiration from the comics again. Without going into spoilers, there was a somewhat recent arc that was in the same vein as what Carol is going through.
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Mar 15, 2016
Nicely argued. I like the idea Carol is concerned the rest of the community is going too far than she is swayed by Morgan.

IMO it is Morgan who should be suffering the sleepless nights wracked by guilt. "OMG! I almost got everybody killed more than once. What was I thinking?"

But no. In the TWD writers' moral universe, Morgan is the conscience and soul of the group, no matter who dies as a result of his irresponsible purity.
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Mar 15, 2016
I hate Carl he has ruined the whole Walking Dead concept, but damm now Carol is ruining it too.

I hope they both die horribly and soon!!!
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Mar 15, 2016
Please cite examples.

Is it the pudding or the cookies?

I mean if you feel strongly enough to wish death on the characters, you gotta have a legitimate reasons & can back it up with something of actual substance...I trust that I'm not wrong in this? I don't like being wrong.

I'm counting on you...don't 'eff it up.


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Mar 15, 2016
At the end of the show did anyone else have the impression that Rick had tracked the Savior safe house and planned to kill all the Saviors, if he could, rather than honor the hostage exchange?

That was Paula's expectation. And it might have gone that way except Maggie and Carol went super-badass and killed the Saviors first.

If so, it explains the nonchalant way Rick executed Primo without missing a beat.

So Rick's group has crossed a line and now the writers will punish them horribly.
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Mar 15, 2016
I definitely Rick was planning on killing them if he could, but I don't think that's anything new or Rick crossing a line. I mean, literally one episode ago Rick showed he was gladly willing to murder his way through enemy groups instead of trying to negotiate. When he first came to Alexandria his group was ready to murder them if things didn't work out. They had a similar approach with the Governor, granted that was more provoked.
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Mar 15, 2016
I didn't get the impression Rick was going to murder the Alexandrians but that he and Carol would have staged a coup to take over if he couldn't convince them to wake up and smell the zombie apocalypse.

Of course that's strong stuff and might involve some deaths, but I still wouldn't call it murder.

However, the death squad action at the Savior compound was murder or at least pretty close.

BTW did we ever find out what happened to the gun Rick hid in the coffee pot when they first got to Alexandria?
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Mar 17, 2016
In the season 5 finale, when Rick interrupts their "meeting" by dumping a dead walker in front of them, then gives a big speech about fighting and surviving and whatnot, I believe Rick actually says something along the lines of "I was thinking about how many of you I'd have to kill for you all to survive" or something like that. So yeah, I think he did consider the fact that he might have to kill Alexandrians, though he ultimately decided against it.

And to answer your question about the gun. Nicholas took it and buried it, we see him digging up the gun and then using it to shoot Glenn in the season 5 finale.
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Mar 15, 2016
In the mid season premiere I believe, Carol shot and killed the wolf prisoner as he was sheilding Denise from the walkers. It wasn't as obvious as it could have been but it asked a question: is he changing? Was what Morgan doing actually working? I mean after the dude already got shot he was still trying to protect her. And you can say it was for his own selfishness because he needed her, for his wound or for his leverage, he could have ran for the hills and protected himself. If you watch that scene again, after Carol shoots him, she freezes or pauses because she notices what he was doing, and it catches her off guard. She definitely pondered in that moment, "should I have shot him?"

Then we skipped like two months THAT the show never showed us. And within those 2 months I'm sure she has been replaying that scene in her head and it's clearly gotten to her. Everything that Morgan said may also be resonating, so much so, she has started a journal. To us, as the audience, it may not make sense how she's changing so fast, but if you really pay attention to every detail it's not exactly out of nowhere. Maybe they needed just one more episode showing her guilt, and so on, but I personally don't feel like it's so left field, and I don't consider her weak at all.
Now I'm also sure, being around Paula, helped a lot. The similarities between the two were obvious, and that woman admitted she had no feelings. That woman was willing to kill a pregnant woman, the person she's sleeping with, and she shrugged it off like it was nothing. Carol has killed easily, too. But Carol probably looked at that woman and seen someone she didn't wanna be. She doesn't wanna be the cold blooded killer, because that is no way to live. You can't be happy, you can't trust anyone, you can't fall in love, and clearly in her new home of Alexandria that's something she wants.
Trust me I love when Carol is a bad ass, I don't love when Carol is burning people of her own community or shooting children in the head, and I feel like Carol can still be a bad ass when she's needs to be, I don't think it will make her weak.
I think she's overwhelmed with the amount of guilt and that's why she was willing to let Paula go, but I'm sure she will find a medium that is good for her. I don't neccesarily think she will go full Morgan mode.

I loved this episode, I agree it was a nail biting episode. I kept thinking someone was definitely going to die, and my money was on Carol (to protect Maggie), I couldn't handle it lol, it was super intense. I loved watching these two bad asses kick ass and save themselves!
But I also liked when Maggie hugged Glenn and said she couldn't do this anymore.
And when Carol admitted she wasn't okay.
So heartfelt :(
Also enjoyed Alicia Witt as Paula, she's a terrific actor, kinda wish she was a series regular apart of Ricks group.
Ah well.
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Mar 15, 2016
Good points! I'd forgotten Carol had killed the Wolf after he seemed to have had a change of heart. Carol did pause to reconsider.

On the other hand the Wolf had been such a stone cold psychopathic killer of who knows how many innocent people until the last two minutes of his life, that I can't fault Carol, and there was no way for her to know.

It struck me as a total contrivance of the writers to stack the deck this way in order to validate Morgan's fatuous "People can change" near-pacifism.

So now the show's arc will be to show Rick, Maggie and others going too far in violence, then some will die, and the survivors will agonize over their lost humanity. Oh, joy.

And I will find it predicable and stupid and I will resent the writers for manipulating viewers this way.
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Mar 15, 2016
I dont get Carol's sudden flip-flopping on killing people. This is character progression that belongs 2 seasons ago. Not now after showing her being a cold killer for so long.

The group that took Carol and Maggie never once felt like a legitimate threat to me, so the majority of the episode fell flat. It certainly wasnt taut or terrifying and left me thinking even less of the Saviours as a legitimate threat than last weeks bedtime butchery did.
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Mar 15, 2016
Carol was an abused wife and she could've killed Ed in his sleep a thousand times over before the walkers: she didn't do it because there was someone else in charge, someone else that could take over if things got out of hand.

Now the walkers took over and no one is coming: should Lizzie start murdering people, Pete beating his wife or the Saviors attempt to kill Maggie no one else would come and that's why Carol takes over. She was struggling because she didn't want to kill Paula, or Molly, or the rest. People were coming, on both sides.

Carol had to kill because they left her no choice like she had during her stay in Alexandria. Carol doesn't enjoy it, she does feel each and every time she takes a life and now she has the luxury to allow herself to feel it like she could allow herself back when they didn't have a hometown to go back to.
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Mar 15, 2016
Dang, lots of good input this week, from all perspectives. I enjoy character development, but somehow feel a bit cheated when Our Gang is sidelined for an episode focusing on other characters (who often end up walkerized). With sixteen episodes per, I really wasn't all that interested in The Smoking Woman. And I must admit, I enjoy Kickass Carol more than Conflicted Carol.

If we've learned anything from TWD, it's that an arms room/armory is a bad idea in the apocalypse.

Winter is coming. Buy more ammo.
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Mar 15, 2016
If we've learned anything from TWD, it's that an arms room/armory is a bad idea in the apocalypse.

Indeed! The Zombie Apocalypse is definitely 2nd Amendment territory.

I wasn't interested in Smoking Woman either, but Paula was a great adversary and actress, so I was sorry to see her go so soon. (Likewise Candle Woman back at Terminus -- played by Denise Crosby who was Tasha Y'ar in Star Trek Next Gen.)

Ir didn't make sense to me that the Saviors ended up being such pushovers for Rick's crew. Our guys have the right stuff and all but there's usually some serious luck in their victories.
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Mar 15, 2016
It didn't make sense to me that the Saviors ended up being such pushovers for Rick's crew. Our guys have the right stuff and all but there's usually some serious luck in their victories.

Right on. Darryl wasted Group A (The Lost Biker Boys) with the RPG. Group B (The Sleeping Beauties) wouldn't even wake up when Heath and Glenn had that 45-minute discussion about Polaroids, the Meaning of Life, and hair scrunchies. So we get to Group C (Rat Patrol) and they seem to be the ones to deal with ... but they aren't, as Our Gang outwits, outplays, and outlasts them, along with Group D (The No Common Sense of Smellers - "hey, the floor's slick, but we can't smell any gasoline").

I'm not a TWD reader, but have gleaned that there are plenty of story arcs on the tube that weren't penned, such as Dale being the father of Maggie's child. I must assume that the top shelf Saviors are off on a raid with Negan, and the REMFs weren't badass enough to leave the fort. We'll see, I suppose. The Agents of T.W.D. aren't the only ones succeeding at Survivor.

And remember kids, never put all your weapons in one room. Rick will find it, and steal them, and you won't get to play.
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Mar 14, 2016
I have to say TWD is reminding me of Sons of Anarchy which got crazier and more violent each season until Season 7 was ridiculous and unwatchable.

Of course SOA was a violent criminal gang from the git-go and its tragic arc was in place as much as it was for Breaking Bad and the Sopranos.

However TWD doesn't have to go that way. It could be the story of community being being hewn from lawlessness and danger as in the old Westerns. But that doesn't seem to be where we're going.
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Mar 15, 2016
Glad to hear you say this. We watched SOA S7 out of some weird sense of loyalty and closure. But good grief, the pre-apocalyptic bloodbath they orchestrated was beyond the pale.
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Mar 14, 2016
I just don't totally get this new Carol, and I don't think the show did a good enough job explaining why she's going down this path.

Tim: Likewise. Especially since Carol has been right time and again about the need for killing and about Morgan's negligent foolishness in trying to avoid it, which has put the community at risk.

The whole Carol/Morgan killing dichotomy feels ginned up by the writers for a Big Moral Quandary to invest meaning in the show but doesn't feel organic.

Similarly I didn't feel prepared for the Maggie/Rick call to genocide the Savior tribe for half the food in Hilltop. That didn't seem like Maggie or Rick.
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Mar 15, 2016
Unlike Carol, Rick has a more masculine/territorial way to see killing. I don't want to say that he enjoys killing because what he really enjoys is the conquering: a brand new territory to call his own.


To kill is the means to an end too, but his end is not to keep the family safe (like Carol), but to keep his territory safe.
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Mar 15, 2016
I'd have to think about that. I'd agree that RIck and Carol, fierce warriors as they are, still aren't on the same page with killing.

Rick started as deputy sheriff, sworn to uphold the law and protect the community. He has morphed since then to alpha male still dedicated to protecting his clan and still open to some feedback from his people -- he's not the Godfather yet -- but he's past maundering over killing those who threaten his clan, though I wouldn't say he sees it as an enjoyable game of conquest. Supposedly they are looking at starvation in a month or two without the food from Hilltop. Plus the Saviors could show up in force any day in Alexandria to threaten them as they did Daryl, Abraham and Sasha.

Carol started as an abused housewife, then bereaved mother, before she began killing. I'm not sold that she should be having all these second thoughts either because of Morgan or because she's had some time to process. Aside from the people back at the prison, I"m on board with everyone Carol has killed since.
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Mar 14, 2016
Who knew a Carol-centric episode would be awesome, lol. When The Walking Dead is at its best, it's fantastic, and this one hit the mark. Best episode this half season.
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Mar 14, 2016
Great episode, and an even better review ! Thanks Tim !
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Mar 14, 2016
The only problem I had with the show was the ending. Why would anyone walk into a room smelling big time of gas. As much gas that was on the floor they would have gagged before they made it into the room.
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Mar 14, 2016
"You know what else was awesome about this episode? At one point, all the characters that mattered were women, and I barely noticed." See, THIS is a problem for me. The whole argument for equality is that it shouldn't matter, it shouldn't matter what gender someone is, it shouldn't matter what race someone is, it shouldn't matter what sexual orientation someone is, etc. And they're right, I whole heatedly agree, it shouldn't, but it clearly does matter to these people because any time a woman or a minority isn't an incompetent they congratulate them like they're fucking children. If I were a woman I would be offended when people make such a big deal about a woman doing this or doing that, if you honestly believed it didn't matter you wouldn't be pissing all over yourselves when a woman open a jar of pickles. To quote Vikings, "she's a woman, not a child", making such a big deal about women being equal shows that on some level you don't honestly believe they're equal. P.S. Don't try to make the argument that woman are only now getting recognition for being good at shit, Athena was getting a fucking city named after her THOUSANDS of years ago, not just any city, but the capital of Greece, their largest and most important city. And don't say "it's new to tv", no it's not, Woman Woman was kicking ass on tv back in the seventies.
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Mar 14, 2016
oh shut up, or learn how to use paragraphs at least
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Mar 17, 2016
This was the best objection to blueeyes_af's post you could come up with.
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Mar 14, 2016
The only bad thing about this season was that god awful episode about Morgan. otherwise, witters are killing it! Keep it up!
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Mar 15, 2016
It was a necessary episode, otherwise people would be complaining about his sudden unexplained newfound philosophy. And it wasn't awful, it was just aired at a very bad time (right after the Glenn incident)
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Mar 14, 2016
The writers on this show suck. So many inconsistencies. Little to no setup. Interesting premise,
poor treatment. The wasted potential is so frustrating. Frankly, I'm getting tired of this shit.
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Mar 14, 2016
Good episode! It seems for the first time ever the show has been mostly maintaining its momentum. There was a weak one in there, but the 4 or 5 we've gotten have been good.

One thing though and it sort of started last week, but it is becoming uncomfortable to watch these last two weeks. They have gone down the path of becoming full on murderer and it shows. Like in the past they mostly did it out of self-defense, but they are now just killing people to avoid defending themselves. It's a bit unnerving top watch.

In a way it is worse than any show before it. For example GOT is popular for killing of characters and violence, but they are just that couple of important characters. Here it doesn't matter much because they are basically one episode extras, but they are mass murdering the shit out of everyone.
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Mar 14, 2016
Good episode , one of the best of season 6b , i'm not quite sure what the writers are doing with Carol , making her weaker , i personally don't like it
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Mar 15, 2016
The writers have Big Important Thoughts about violence they wish to communicate.

It is far better to risk many innocent people dying than to deny a single psychopathic killer every possible chance to change even in the Zombie Apocalypse.

I think you can go too far in killing. I would argue the Maggie-Rick bargain to exterminate the Saviors for food was both poorly thought-out and immoral.

But the way the writers keep putting their thumbs on the scale to justify Morgan's foolishness over Carol's realism annoys the heck out of me.
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Mar 17, 2016
I don't want an educational message, I want brutal badass characters I can rely on. It's good to root for the bad guys every once in a while, and this is what TWD is to me. At least for now, Carol is ruined.
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Mar 14, 2016
I agree. I understand that the writters are trying to show that because of the ways in which the Alexandrians lived (somewhat civil or represetntative of what used to be) is causing some characters to questions their emotional status (or lack therofe) when it comes to taking another humans life. I just don't think that person should have been Carol...
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Mar 14, 2016
I'm confused by all the people who say "just another filler episode." What exactly would constitute a non-filler episode for TWD? The premise of the show is people just surviving in a zombie apocalypse and at the center of that is interactions with other people. What spaces are these episodes supposedly "filling" up? The spaces leading to...another interaction with someone else?

I thought this episode was another good one and as much as I hated Alicia Witt's character, I was disappointed to see her killed off so quickly. That's the kind of thing that makes me irritated at all the boring ass characters we've gotten in Alexandria. We get stuck with uninteresting people for multiple seasons (I'm looking at you, Olivia, Denise, Spencer, Aaron's boyfriend, Morgan etc) and when we get someone who's fascinating and enjoyable to watch on screen they are killed off within 1-2 eps (Eastman, Paula, Greasy Motorcycle gang leader).

The writing was better but still some snippets that were poorly written like Carol stepping closer to Paula so Paula could grab her. I'm pretty sure she could hear you fine, Carol, considering she was 6 feet away. No need to step closer. Oh yeah, that's right, once again the writers couldn't write a scene without dumbing down an intelligent character.

I really hope that in the next moment after Rick shoots Primo thinking he's Negan either Carol or Maggie said "Hey Rick, that wasn't Negan. His name is Primo and nice job, asshole, we could have kept him alive and got more information out of him to find out where their headquarters are. Tell us again why you're our leader." If they even start off the next episode with Rick dusting off his hands and saying "Glad that's all over. Now let's go get our cow and tomato plants from Hilltop" I'm going to scream.

Oh and I'm trying not to take offense at Tim's shocked "it was all about women and I barely noticed" comment. Like it's surprising to be interested in a show focused on female characters. Gee willikers, who knew women could be interesting or that you could even care what happens to them, you guys! I just...sigh.
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Mar 14, 2016
THIS is the episode Tim likes? really? I usually like the Carol centric episodes but i thought this was a mostly bland, badly acted hour of television

the last 10 minutes saved it from being the worst episode of this half season IMO

Alicia Witt is getting praise from some reviews i have seen and the comments - but i thought she was terrible - especially in the early part of the episode - i have never rated her - Justified excluded

Carol having doubts about killing people - so not only has Morgan become one of the most blandest characters on this show (after being one of the best characters when he appeared sporadically) the writers are now dragging Carol to that level??? UGH - i love Carol but she was as annoying as Morgan in this episode -i hated her 'panic' attack (BAD acting too)

Maggie was the episode's MVP IMO - who actually stepped up and became a bad-ass

In what world was this a terrifying hour of TV? it was suffocating for sure but terrifying? not in the least - the conversations between the characters lead to nothing - a critique people had about last week's episode but is somehow praised this week?

There was no threat because we knew Carol and Maggie would survive and that the saviors would be massacred - and although that certain massacre was the best part of the episode - this episode did nothing for the plot - again, another critique people had with last week's episode but are fine with it this week?

Last week's episode was much better than this snooze-fest IMO - oh and to those that actually believed that was Negan - do you live under a rock???
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Mar 14, 2016
The Walking Dead...brought to you in part by Cheeri-MOLLS:


I loved this episode but I was shocked that these Saviors haven't become a big threat yet. It's literally 21-0 for Rick and Co. so far so I have a feeling bad things are on the way and Negan is the one bringin' it.

If anyone is interested, check out my review/recap of the episode, w/ lots of original memes and gifs: http://mikeydislikesit.com/the-walking-dead-the-same-boat-review/

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Mar 14, 2016
The good guys won. Yay!
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Mar 14, 2016
I am not sure we actually know who the good guys are in this scenario.
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Mar 14, 2016
Yeah, I know.
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Mar 14, 2016
I do have to admit that I like this particular underlying plot. Too bad that it just is going to end fast and then go back to usual.
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Mar 15, 2016
@mad-pac

Perhaps, but they kind of did the same thing with Terminus and that was over pretty much in one episode.
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Mar 14, 2016
Not sure it's going to be that fast, since Negan hasn't even graced the screen with his presence. I guess at some point they would have to use the characters as the bad guys plain and simple. Of course, things are a little shady, after all, Negan is supposed to be a maniac, but at this point, with Rick's group killing left and right, there can be no excuses. And honestly, I pity Rick and his friends for the Wrath of Negan.
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Mar 14, 2016
This generation sucks big time as for sure.... And this now a days, audience sucks big time as for sure...

People hate and dislike watching anything goodness, happiness, happy endings, romance, love, marriage and family.... They like to see more Action Packed & Killing, par 24 7 hours all freaking time into every tv programming.... Such as Superhero by from Comics Book and Supernatural/Horror by off Novels...

WTF? I say!!!
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Mar 15, 2016
"goodness, happiness, happy endings, romance, love, marriage and family"
that shit is gay.
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Mar 14, 2016
That's not true. I just think The Walking Dead does a HORRIBLE job of exploring personal relationships. I had more feelings for Eastman's pet goat than I do for a lot of these characters, lol.
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Mar 14, 2016
While something of a filler episode in that it didn't do a whole lot to advance the overall story arc, it was highly entertaining filler. I don't know that I'd want a lot more of them, but a number of episodes featuring characters on their own have been good ones, so I'm not surprised this on was as well.

I don't really know yet what to make of Carol's change. Will I be able to buy into it (like her change from meek to badass), or will it turn out to be another instance of the creative team being clever without achieving much?
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Mar 14, 2016
My only odd complaint? As various websites and news outlets would discuss Negan's reaction, we heard many actor's reaction after reading Season 6's finale and we heard from both Lauren Cohen and Melissa McBride. I sort of suspect if they were dead in this one, they wouldn't have gotten a copy of the script.

I do sort of think, though, that the show probably took both Maggie and Carol off the chopping block for the end season death's that could occur. You know, just usually the way shows work, they have a bunch of people at risk and show some previews that show some at particular risk but as they get toward the end they start narrowing down the lists.
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Mar 14, 2016
I agree that Maggie appears to be off the chopping block but I'm not so sure about Carol. It's true that they seem to write something traumatic/life threatening for characters who make it through and then they're good the rest of the season, but I think Maggie may be the only one from this episode who gets a pass. Another example is Carl with his shot out eye. He's safe. I think an exception to that may be Glenn. Yes, he had a big "Is he dead or alive?" event but I think he could still die in the finale.

As much as I hate to say it, and I REALLY hope it's not Glenn, I think they need to kill one of the originals at this point. One of the things that makes GoT so great is that they aren't afraid to kill the characters that everyone thinks are safe. TWD needs to deliver a truly shocking death this season in the form of Daryl, Carol, Glenn or Michonne. Something tells me they don't have the balls to do that though.
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Mar 14, 2016
I wish people now a days, actually give Love, Romance, Marriage, Family, Happiness and Happy Ends a chance and credit....

Instead of seeing evil, action packed, killing, violence, kidnapping, Hero vs. Villain and Villain vs. Hero all time into every single tv programming release...

And I am actually sick and tired of seeing Action and Killing into every single tv programming... And there is no sign of Love, Romance, Marriage, Family, Happiness and Happy Ends at all into any tv programming...
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Mar 14, 2016
I disagree. There is an endless amount of sitcoms and shows that focus on "goodness, happiness, happy endings, romance, love, marriage and family" and are very popular, please don't ask me to list them because there are so many. Just a few off the top of my head (Big bang theory, modern family, black-ish, goldbergs, fresh off the boat, new girl, brooklyn nine nine, the grinder, last man on earth, and there is so much more.)

But you are not going to find it in these hour long drama shows, especially ones called Walking Dead. Stop focusing on what other people like and watch the shows you find enjoyable. Personally, I hate horror films, but a ton of people love it, so I just don't watch it nor do I tear them down for liking it.
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Mar 14, 2016
What? TV.com!!! I am tearing people down what they watch of their interest? Wow!!! God help me now? Since when I am tearing people apart what they watch interest to their very hearts? I am not that careless or heartless at all....

WTF? Nothing Mean then! You people don't get what saying here... Well, the main reason on post messages on these topics... So you people can help me out what to find next to watch to my interest of heart... But you people are not helping at all... You people are too busy finding me as a troll busting down on another people interest to heart... Yeah, like I am that kind of careless and heartless person against other people on here....
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Mar 15, 2016
Is this your first day on the internet?
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Mar 14, 2016
You've obviously had too much caffeine. Rather then focus on your point of the quality of television has changed you choose to be a drama queen. I thought you would have an actual reply instead you are just looking to rant. So rant away, just don't expect anymore replies to your nonsense.
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Mar 14, 2016
Who the are people at this Tv.com? I am not starting any battles or wars with you people...

WTF? I like you people are on drugs or drunk not taking me seriously... what I am telling you people on here at TV.com ? Please don't turn the tables around against me here... And you people can't stop your nonsense blaming me for everything and messing up your Tv...
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Mar 14, 2016
there is such a thing as an off switch or is an evil killing villain forcing you to watch?
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Mar 14, 2016
And there is just such thing Horror doesn't always mean Killing... It actually means they want to scare you out your seat, leaving the characters alone sometimes...

Have you people ever watch Horror Films, from the 70's was set based around Family without killing them off? And also Tales from the Crypt, Goosebumps and Are You Afraid of the Dark...

If they keep on Killing Characters all the time? It will lose interest, become boring and the Horror will stop lose the meaning point jumping people out their seats....

And you can't just make people become Zombies all the time, just because you don't like them nobody... While there are alot scary Zombies into alley and beyond hiding places after the virus change the world...
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Mar 15, 2016
I understand why you pine away for times gone by. I do it too, as does everyone as they get older & look back at what they consider "the good 'ol days" of their youth.

Here's the thing though: I've seen you post the same general rant for a pretty long time. You lament times gone by through rose-colored glasses. I know what you would prefer is to see more things in pop culture that celebrate happiness, love, marriage, ect, but what you fail to understand is, those things are still out there to see, it's just different than you want it to be, because times have changed & you don't seem to have been able to properly adapt & accept how the passage of time changes things...Ourselves included.
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Mar 15, 2016
And You people fail to understand, I do understand the different between entertainment genres preference and apperances... And also, I do understand things change into time go by from generations and following into footsteps like the previously....

And, I have change my television status several times after the 90's... So, it's not just only about my childhood tv memories from the 90's really...

1 - From 1990's, I have watch & known Sitcoms the most left and right around comedy and romance....


2 - After 1990's. I became interest into Action/Crime with setup to Romance along with Sitcoms

3 - After 2007, I have gave every category chance... Because I thought it would be different than the 90's, over the change of generations... But I found out the hard way between Superheroes adaptations and Supernatural adaptations, they don't have everything on my interest to heart...


4 - After 2011, after I have exit out of Superheroes adaptations and Supernatural adaptations, they don't have everything on my interest to heart... I have went back to just only Sitcoms and Action/Crime...

5 - And now, It appears last years was the last year just Sitcoms and Action/Crime... And 2016 of this year, will restore and reset to just only Sitcoms like the 90's....

Well, it's not going to be exactly like the 90's... But it will be the only genre for me, on Television as more mature and adult includes Love, Romance, Marriage, Family, Happiness and Happy Endings...

And now you people know, God didn't make me like you being interest into action and killing stuff all the time or at all... I am actually scare and fair of Action & Killings stuff since birth... And, i can't even sit thru Action and Killing storyline plot without thinking off-topic and look at a well...
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Mar 15, 2016
Horror films from the 70s were some of the most savage ever made. Last House on the Left, I Spit on Your Grave, Cannibal Holocaust, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Hills Have Eyes... the list goes on and on. Most of those movies couldn't even be released in theaters today. So I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about.
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Mar 15, 2016
Wow!!! Did I ever even mention those horror films from the 70's? Wow!!! You people really take thing way too seriously here...

I actually mention the horror films from the 70's based around the family, where it's just only scary but the nobody dies out of the family...

I believe The Exorcist and The Amilyville Horror is shown into todays generation... So, I don't know what you're talking about...
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Mar 15, 2016
Yeah. just I gotta say, when I rewatch alot of 70's horror flicks, they still stand to this day as some of the most twisted & disturbing things I've ever seen compared to the things that they later inspired.

Those flicks you mentioned (plus the Exorcist among others) are far more telling of their time than anyone's personal memory can accurately recollect.

The 70's were a fucked up time & pop culture reflected it...but it also had the Love Boat too. Go figure.
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Mar 14, 2016
According to the official show timeline, is has been "about 2 months" since the walkers invaded Alexandria. It has been a relatively quiet 6 to 10 weeks. You have to remember this about Carol: She hasn't had a moment to stop and think since she killed and burned the people at the prison.
So for the first time in maybe 6 months, she has time with herownthoughts to think about her past actions. She is exhibiting classic symptoms of PTSD. Especially the dreams about the people she has killed.
I think the writers aren't back tracking on her character, I think they are following it to its logical next step.
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Mar 14, 2016
I think having Paula talking and acting just like she would be acting was alittle eye opener for Carol. Paula was a younger version of Carol. When Carol and Morgan was fighting over the wolf she had the same look and determinant as Paula. There was only one solution to every problem. Kill.
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Mar 14, 2016
I also think Carol as Nurturing Mother may also be coming to the fore. Besides PTSD, she has guilt for the harsh way she treated Sam and the ultimate outcome there. At the same time she has been maintaining the suburban housewife attire while baking cookies and casseroles for the Alexandrians. Then you factor in Maggie's pregnancy and Carol is trying to be nurturing and protective of the future life, while still in pain over the loss of her own daughter Sophie.
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Mar 14, 2016
agree, the idle mind is a dangerous thing, and Carol had some time on her hands to start thinking about stuff. So the evolution looks pretty good. I think this episode, forget about all the action pack and suspense showed us the evolution of the Rick group. All this time they were the good guys for sure but now i think the last two episodes showed that they crossed the line, just like Walter White they have become bad guys.

Also so cool that last scene where the Savior guy thought he could talk his way out of this and Rick just shoots him, no hesitation. The guy served his purpose and he was dispatched.
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Mar 14, 2016
The only problem I had with this is that now that Alicia Witt's character is dead there will be no more Alicia Witt and I could live in Alicia Witt's pocket for a year and still not get enough Alicia Witt.
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Mar 14, 2016
For me, this episode was just alright. It felt like a filler episode. Again, a build up to mortal danger and everything is a-ok and the problem is solved in one episode, just like a sitcom. That seems to be the formula the writers have and I think they've become terribly lazy and AMC is fine with it because they're still getting loads of cash. I think this show has been going downhill and I really hope it doesn't reach a point where Tim's review is more interesting and entertaining than the actual show. In my opinion, Negan killing off a major character is the shot in the arm this show needs and I hope that next season finds our heroes in a position of weakness and danger week in and week out, instead of always coming out on top by the end of every episode.
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Mar 14, 2016
Finally a good episode. This is what TWD is all about.
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Mar 14, 2016
Good development for Carol and Maggie, but the rest of the episode felt like filler. They have so so so many characters on this show, and tons of them never get fleshed out at all.
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Mar 14, 2016
I've not been a fan of Carol at all for at least 3 seasons, but this episode has helped a lot. Still definitely not shipping her and Daryl though. Just no.
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Mar 14, 2016
Imagine if Paula had taken Carol's offer and had become an ally, on the inside or generally. It could have saved lives. On that account, and their common ground, it was worth a chance. But it didn't pay-off, and Carol did what was necessary. That's no way to live though. To defend yourself, yes. But to live just to kill everyone you encounter straight off? No. What's the point in living if you can't see or work towards a better future.
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Mar 14, 2016
I agree with you partially, but we have seen what the Saviors do and are capable of. I don't think it was just killing everyone you encounter straight off. It was defending themselves against a sure future threat.


They would have clashed eventually, now they took matters in their own hands to spare them the risk of getting surprised by an attack and losing friends. They learned their lessons with the Governour and the Wolves attacks.


This was a superb episode in my opinion.
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Mar 15, 2016
We've seen what some of the Saviors do and are capable of. Our group doesn't know them all individual. There might be some good ones in there, just like there are some bad ones. She was choosing to trust and have hope that it could be resolved without Terminator Carol. It wasn't, so she went into that mode immediately. Until that point though, she wanted to believe, and I kind of like that. It makes for a more nuanced character, and I agree, it was a fantastic episode.
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Mar 16, 2016
I don't know, i think Carol is just having some internal conflict, like doubting herself, if what she is doing is good or not. It seems her faith is shaken, she doesn't want to kill anymore perhaps, and wants to find another way to do things.


I understand what you mean, with she tried a different way, but if Paula did run, then she wouldn't have been any better then Morgan with the Wolf in the house..


The Saviors would want revenge and ofcourse their slice of heaven called Alexandria. I am intrigued to find out her reasoning behind her behaviour in this episode.
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Mar 14, 2016
After a couple of lackluster weeks, TWD proved why it is still must see tv. No one was more shocked than I at the excellent episode it just aired. I almost didn't watch as I was bingeing on my favorite show (Psych) on Netflix. But my internet kept going to down, so I decided to halfway watch TWD. I confess to maybe not paying too much attention to the first part, but soon I was absolutely engrossed. It was really quite good. This was thee kind of episode that keeps people coming back, hoping to see.
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Mar 14, 2016
Carol has been on this path since the wolf attack, when she sat on the steps contemplating who she had become. She'll still do what it takes to survive, but she is seeing that sometimes there might be another way. Nothing weak about that.
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Mar 14, 2016
Lets all thanks Morgan for ruining Carol! xD... who would be the next one that we will have to see whining about remorse?... Daryl?... Michonne?... Sasha?... Eugene?... goshh... again the same plot!.

It was an average episode and kinda boring... just stuffing.
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Mar 14, 2016
I do not understand people who think Carol had become some coldblooded killer. I had an argument with someone several months ago who kept calling her "kill happy" and saying she enjoyed killing. He clearly wasn't paying attention. This is what I said then, and this episode made it obvious so that even those not paying attention couldn't deny it:

"Carol has been making the "hard" decisions for a while now. She killed and burned the bodies of Karen and and the other dude because they were already dying and she thought it might prevent the same thing from happening to everyone else. Did it work? No. But she wasn't wrong for why she did it. It's like what she told Rick when they got to Alexandria: "Just because you were wrong, doesn't mean you weren't right." He was wrong about Alexandria but was still right to not trust it before seeing it for himself. Carol had a slight emotional breakdown after the Wolves massacre, meant to showcase that she's not completely okay with having to kill people. She does not enjoy it. She was shaking during that confrontation with Morgan because she didn't want to kill him. But ultimately, Carol will do what she thinks is necessary to keep herself and those around her safe. That's why she's so valuable."

And people are acting like she didn't end up killing four people in this episode, lol. She's not suddenly Morgan. He would've gotten himself and Maggie killed.
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Mar 14, 2016
As for Morgan, I dunno. Diplomacy has never been tried in this show. In reality, diplomacy works because nobody really wants to go to war. Morgan would be more effective than you think, if this was a real situation. Besides, he can take care of himself.
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Mar 14, 2016
Maybe. But you don't try diplomacy on the battlefield while your people are being slaughtered.

I was so angry at Morgan for his plea to Carol not to kill the Wolves when Alexandria was within a hair of falling. It was only luck and Carol's speed that prevented the Wolves from reaching the armory first.

Furthermore any number of people could have died for Morgan's idiotic choice to secretly care for the first Wolf who had already tried to kill Morgan and made clear his intent to kill everyone in Alexandria if he got the chance.
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Mar 14, 2016
He can take care of himself with his stick skills, yes. The problem is that he can't finish the job. I'm not going to deny that there are people that can be "saved" or reasoned with. However, it's mostly not worth the risk at this point. Him letting those Wolves the first time he met them contributed to what happened in Alexandria. And him letting that group go again almost got Rick killed.

It sucks that it's usually kill or be killed, but it is what it is. You certainly don't have to like killing (Glenn had a realistic reaction for his character when he finally killed someone), but you certainly have to be willing to kill.
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Mar 15, 2016
Taking care of yourself doesn't always require finishing the job.
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Mar 15, 2016
Maybe not, but in this case, it can lead to other people dying. It's an extreme world that they live in.
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Mar 14, 2016
Carol became a cold blooded killer. No maybe she didn't enjoy it, but she killed innocent people (the plague victims, who might have recovered for example). So it's nice to see those kills start to weigh on her.
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Mar 14, 2016
I think it's all a part of her adaptability. She can take on the weak, motherly role if she needs to. She can take on the scared role if she needs to. And she can take on the coldblooded killer role if she needs to. But she's not simply one of those things. Being able to kill when you and those you care about are in danger doesn't make you an actual coldblooded killer.

The only time we didn't see killing weigh on Carol was with the whole Terminus thing. Killing Lizzie was obviously something she hated doing. As I said, even with the Wolves being the attackers, there was a scene devoted to showing her reeling from what had happened and what she'd had to do. She may have threatened to kill Morgan but she didn't really want or intend to. And then there was this episode where it all came to the forefront.

Anyway, my point is simply that while Carol is capable of pulling off a merciless killer persona, that's not really who she is at her core.

Either way, she's still awesome. :p
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Mar 15, 2016
I agree, and I like her more now that we've seen she doesn't like being the one who does what she thinks needs to be done.
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Mar 14, 2016
I call bullshit on your bullshit. Carol hasn't been enjoying killing, but she never fretted about it when it was obvious that the other party was a danger. And then she turns around and offers to let a woman go - a decision that would clearly bite them hard in the ass later. Additionally she wanted to just leave. Lesson N1 in survival - never leave an enemy force behind your back. She didn't have to like killing to see the reason for it. Suddenly she changed from pro-survival to pro-stupid. Maybe the 1-2 scene buildup spread over 5 episodes is supposed to make it feel natural, but it clearly didn't.
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Mar 14, 2016
It did feel natural to me. Maybe not to you, who wants her to be cold hearted, but to the rest of us we saw it coming and it seemed normal. The women she offered to let go reminded her of herself, and she had a moment of weakness, after all the other kills were weighing on her.
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Mar 17, 2016
You're probably the type who enjoys Ricks stupid maniac demeanor and calls it character development. However the unfortunate truth is that TWD has very few successes in that department. Even characters who got great development in one episode or another, have had scenes so cringeworthy that make me skip over half the episode.
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Mar 14, 2016
Sure.
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Mar 14, 2016
Angela Kang sucks.

How the F is she still writing for one of the most popular series out there.

Disappointing waiting an entire week, being all excited for Walking Dead and then seeing her name. Funny thing is at the beginning scene something felt off about the episode and i said to myself "Is this a Kang episide" haha.
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Mar 14, 2016
I myself am wondering why would any good writer do scripts for TWD, which has been mediocrity since the latter half of S1 with only a rare glimpse of good.
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Mar 14, 2016
You're wondering why any writer would want to work on one of the most watched shows on television? Seriously?

Careful, I think your hyperbole is showing.

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Mar 14, 2016
Season 1 was pretty weak. I dunno.
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Mar 14, 2016
Oh, and we need to see Negan already. These Saviors are kind of lame following the path of the Wolves. I'm starting to think Negan could be a letdown but i hope not.
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Mar 14, 2016
Oh, and that's total BS you didn't notice it was all women. Pahlease. The use of bitch about 20 times in the first 15 min, the ladies teaming up to take out the raging man, the pregnancy stuff and on and on.

Did Gimple ghostwrite that review?
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Mar 14, 2016
Almost forgot, "men can't handle pain". Laughable.
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Mar 14, 2016
It's all good. None of the A team died. That's good enuff for me. Err...well, I wouldn't mind losing Morgan if he keeps up his BS philosophy and put everyone in grave danger.
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Mar 14, 2016
I have to agree with Tim that Carol's remorse is a bit of a stretch. Just 2 months ago she was ready to kill Morgan for not killing the Wolf. Could someone change that much in just 2 months? I assume she would have to reflect on her past actions at some point to be able to retain her sense of humanity, but this is going to the other extreme. I think she is too disturbed now and her days may be numbered.

The biggest question is will we really meet this Negan? I've heard gossip but won't say more, but I have to wonder why the saviors keep saying We all are Negan or I am Negan? Is that just some crazy Negan cult philosophy? Is it possible they will deviate from the comics and Negan will not appear on the show?
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Mar 14, 2016
"but this is going to the other extreme. I think she is too disturbed now"

I'm guessing you missed that part where she shot someone in the head at point blank range, and burned two other people alive.
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Mar 15, 2016
No, I didn't miss it, but it seems odd that all at once in just two months' time she is a born again Christian.
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Mar 14, 2016
Yes it's an absolute guarantee we will see Negan in the season finale, so it's a complete non-issue...as far as why the other saviors all refer to themselves as Negan remains to be seen, but it immediately echos the iconic "I Am Spartacus" scene & I believe that was an intentional choice on the writers part.

As far as Carol goes, yes, she can change on a dime. All people can (& do) when they finally make the choice. Carol is a pragmatic survivor & will slit your throat as soon as look at'cha if she sees you as a threat to her or her family, but the show has been throwing nuggets our way that she's had time to reflect & morn her decisions...not that she feels her decisions were wrong, but that her decisions have been sapping her humanity. To me, this episode was crystal clear as to why she was trying to cut slack to Paula. Carol looked at her, felt she was looking into a mirror, & didn't like what she saw. Even the title of the episode itself supports that interpretation.

Carol giving Paula the option to run & spare her life, also gives Carol a portion of her humanity back in the act.

Carol is still Scareol, but tonight she took a step back from the edge she normally walks & the character is deeper for it
More +
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Mar 14, 2016
Well, I know they cast the part of Negan but then wondered if it's a trick. I did read that the "We all are Negan" spiel is --spoiler--from the comics. I assume he is a cult leader.
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Mar 15, 2016
Negan isn't a cult leader. what he is, is a charismatic villain. Mind you, that's not a spoiler. it's just me letting you know that your assumptions are wrong.

I get the feeling you're unfamiliar w/ the Spartacus scene I mentioned & spirit of how much I believe it influenced the 'we are all Negan' thing...like I said, it's very iconic.
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Mar 15, 2016
Not familiar with the Spartacus scene.

I did see a copy and paste of the TWD comics that showed characters saying we are all Negan.
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Mar 14, 2016
It feels off because of the lack of time that the show seems incapable of providing. So with that it is difficult to believe that a character can grow in an a,out of time that we haven't seen. This show isn't about introspection. Could the death of Sam have been one kid too many and shook her up a bit, sure, everyone has their breaking point. But it is hard for us to believe that because they won't show it. The closest thing we ever get to that is when Rick goes enters into his violent fugue state and goes in a walker rampage. Or when Maggie screams for Glenn and Glenn searches for Maggie, that is about it. This is what the writers are really poor at.
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Mar 14, 2016
If Carol does have a conscience left as we are now to believe, she should feel remorse for Sam's death after she psychologically terrorized him. He probably would have died anyway, but I blame her for the mental state that contributed to his fear.
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Mar 15, 2016
Hey lr2jules - Marburg66 refers the famous scene at the end of the 1960 Spartacus movie with Kirk Douglas. Spartacus and all the other slaves that join him win great battles against their Roman masters but are eventually are defeated.
They are given the choice to live and return to slavery if they surrender Spartacus up for crucifixion, in a show of solidarity and respect for him they all claim to be Spartacus and all were crucified for miles along the road to the gates of Rome itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8h_v_our_Q
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Mar 14, 2016
Well, I am not sure that I would blame her, mostly because I think he was in on the joke a bit. I think it was the mother that was more to blame, mostly because she shouldn't have allowed him to recuse himself to the closet upstairs and made him deal with it. That I think had more to do with his death than anything that Carol threatened to do.
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Mar 15, 2016
Maybe. He did seem to have a strange attraction to Carol and her cookies.
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Mar 14, 2016
Am I the only one that thought Carol's feelings seemed legit, sure in earlier eps she was the Terminator and I don't think she lost that rather she just connected with Paula.

I mean when 'Chelle got all knifey with Maggie she was disregarding formerly hyperventilating Carol who just stepped up and ended her.
Actually Maggie got bloodthirsty this episode and wanted to kill them all, Carol is just incredibly good at killing.

Paula talking about her changes from family separation, killing idiot boss to passing double digits resonated big time. Carol just wanted her to run and she got it worst of all. Even with all that going down, Maggie wants to take down the Saviours cavalry and with little hesitation Carol calls them to the killing floor and lights them all up. I don't think her character is going soft or yo-yoing, I think she just got an uncomfortable look in the mirror.
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