The Walking Dead "The Suicide King" Review: Homewreckers

The Walking Dead S03E09: "The Suicide King"

The Walking Dead is BACK you guys! And it came back with all the ferocity of a toddler pillowfight. Ever since Zombie Sophia stepped out of the barn and became Plain Old Dead Sophia, the pace of the series has been torrid, with the Glen Mazzara era defined by the action-now creed of "Kill 'Em All and Hopefully We'll Still Have Characters Left to Kill Off." But "The Suicide King" was a return to Frank Darabont-era The Walking Dead, which lived by the psychoanalytical creed of "Let's Talk About Our Feelings." The survivors had much to discuss in this episode, where the safety of home was no longer guaranteed and the deck was once again shuffled using the same old cards.

Taking a breather and "developing characters" was an inevitability, as the series can't be expected to give us hour after hour of effects artist Greg Nicotero finding new ways to eject zombie brain matter from dummy walking corpses, but I can't help but think "The Suicide King" suffered from unfortunate timing. We were all jazzed about the return of the series and ready to burn off pent-up energy with jumping jacks and burpies and zombie decapitations, but "The Suicide King" was a sleepy episode with some truly awful parts (Andrea's speech UGH). I know the show was written as a 16-episode season, but surely someone knew where the big mid-season premiere would land and could have prevented the majorly promoted return from coinciding with another round of "the world has changed, we can't trust strangers no mo'" and the constant discussion of loyalties and allegiances.

Not that dialogue-heavy episodes can't work. Heck, AMC's other hit, Mad Men, is just yakkity yak AND staring with the occasional crying, but it's considered one of the best shows on television. The Walking Dead wants to be a great drama, but has shown very little proficiency in creating compelling character interactions beyond the obvious ones, and it's saddled with recycling the same old stories over and over. This time it was Glenn who got angry and stomped on a zombie head, popping it like a zit. This time it was Tyreese's group waiting for Rick to decide whether they're were cool or not, and once again part of the group was chill and the other was sketchy. This time it was Woodbury that was deemed unsafe, leaving its inhabitants wondering where their next summertime cocktail party will be. The scenarios and characters may change, but we're basically seeing the same thing over and over and over and over and...

And that's one of the problems The Walking Dead is going to face with regard to longevity. Robert Kirkman always said he wanted a zombie movie that never ends, and he created one with his comics. The problem is that a story of a zombie apocalypse is limited in its variation without some real creativity, and when the creativity isn't there, what we get is repetition. Is what we're seeing plausible in a situation like this? Possibly. But is it fun television? Not always.

Also not making things fun: The sheer number of dicks we're dealing with and how plainly their dickishness is presented. Season 3 has put zombies in the background to focus on how truly awful people can be when the dead start walking and biting. Tyreese's white boy friends (Allen and Ben, I think, but who really cares because they'll be dead in a week) actually hatched a plan to take the guns away from Carl and Carol, and to capture the prison by force from the same people who let them in (albeit under surveillance) and dressed their wounds. AND after they were loaned shovels to bury their hot dead mom. Ungrateful bastards! Heck, I don't want the zombies to eat them, I want Rick to eat them. But the story is a repeat of the dynamic in the prisoners group, and way too soon.

However, the title of King of the Dicks goes to the NPC (non-party characters, for all you non-gamers out there) citizens of Woodbury, a collection of assholes so ridiculously entitled that they deserve a death far worse than a zombie free-for-all. One second they're clamoring for blood in their own version of the Hunger Games, hooting and hollering when The Governor demands that two brothers fight each other to the death while zombies are escorted to the arena to sweeten the thrill of danger, but after one scuffle with Rick's survivors they demand to be released because it's not safe. For what? So they can start a new heavily fortified town with a less crazy dictator running the show? Maybe the new town will have zombies-versus-humans soccer matches instead of gladiator fights? Did their BBQs lose luster after the town ran out of mayonnaise? These townsfolk aren't just stupid, they're a bunch of dickwads. They're written as a singular voice ("Yay! Brother fight!" *later* "Hey let us out!") instead of a group of free-thinking individuals, which is just plain lazy writing and unbelievable. And if they weren't stupid enough, Andrea squashed a gestating coup with a hokey speech culled from the most cliche of movie monologues. "And years from now when they write about this plague in the history books, they will write about Woodbury. We persevered." And then NO JOKE, the citizens, who were two seconds away from storming The Governor's castle, murmur in agreement and STARTED HUGGING ANDREA. I feel so bad for Laurie Holden.

The biggest and best development that occurred during "The Suicide King" was Daryl's departure from the group. After a surprisingly easy assault on Woodbury by Rick's group, lil' Dixon bro couldn't leave old Dixon bro out on his own when it came down to him or us, and now the two of them will fend for themselves in the wilderness because that's the way it was always meant to be (and because people like Merle about as much as they'd like a case of genital herpes). It was a bit ridiculous that the group would expect Daryl to leave Merle behind given how the depth of the Dixon bond, and I'm genuinely excited to see what happens to the two of them. And no, Daryl fanboys, they aren't off the show, not even close. They'll run into the group eventually, but in the meantime I'm sure they'll splinter off in a more exciting way than Andrea did. And you will know them by the trail of the dead... zombies with knife-hand holes and crossbow punctures in their heads. The Walking Rednecks, anyone?

I guess we should also talk about Ghost Lori and Rick's trip to cuckoo land? Of the "Rick's going insane!" scenes, the scene where Rick was holding Shania Judith was far more effective and chilling because it was very emotional, appropriate in the moment, and even subtle by this show's standards. Judith's crying echoing through his brain? That I can believe and understand. But Ghost Lori chilling on the balcony and Rick freaking out RIGHT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE, including the new recruits? I know it's hard to keep it together in a time like this, but dude Rick, you just blew your shot at re-election. That was like Howard Dean screaming about the States. Irreparable! I'm voting for Hershel in 2013.

But at least Rick freaking out over Ghost Lori gave us this awesome "Ummm this white boy be crazy, let's bounce" reaction shot from Tyreese:

"The Suicide King" didn't have much cohesion to it, sacrificing a focused episode so it could shuffle pieces around to recycle stories. It was a set-up episode, which isn't typically a bad thing, but the power of set-up episodes comes from anticipation for what they're setting up. Aside from The Walking Rednecks, I'm not sure there's anything else I'm looking forward to at the moment; it seems like we're headed toward another round of things we've seen before, just with new faces and places. After such great progress in the last dozen episodes or so, things came to grinding halt in "The Suicide King" and showed that The Walking Dead has a long way to go before it can become an elite drama that's more than just headshots and hacked-off limbs.

So I guess the question now is—or maybe it always has been—what kind of show should The Walking Dead be? Do we want it to keep exploring characters even though it isn't that good at doing so? Or should it stay action heavy and aim to spray blood in our faces as often as possible? Given the results of "The Suicide King," I'm leaning toward the latter.



NOTES... FROM THE GRAVE! SPOOKY!

– The Governor's no-look zombie kill was nice, and Glenn's boot stomp was great, but my favorite kill was The Governor putting down Rich Foster (.GIF above). He did it with all the emotion of going out to get the mail.

– What to do with Michonne? She's just a brat right now, brooding and adding very little to anything. Mysteriousness only goes so far. Is she a badass loner or does she actually want to be part of the group? We don't know, because she won't tell us ANYTHING. This show can add all the characters it wants (and it needs to add people if it wants to keep its kill rate high), but it also has to give them their due time so we feel connected to them. Hating a character is as powerful as liking a character, but feeling indifferent toward a character is inexcusable and this show has plenty of those.

– Woodbury wall guard: "Hey you stupid citizens of Woodbury, stop honking your car horns! You're going to attract zombies! Do you want us all killed? Now excuse me while I pop off a dozen extremely loud gunshots!"

– The only good that can come out of Rick's bonkers-bananas routine is that someone steps up to challenge his leadership. But even in that case we've seen something like that happen before.

– Axel needs more screen time. His outfits are awesome. But should he REALLY be allowed to walk around alone with Beth given the fact he can't look at her without drooling?

– Speaking of Beth, when she gave Rick a kiss on the cheek he definitely got a boner and thought about hittin' that. You know you saw it in his eyes, too. That's just gross. And poor little Carl is going to have to kill his dad to get his woman back.

– R.I.P. Woodbury 7: Tim, Crowley, Eisenberg (not Heisenberg), Julio with a hard 'J', Bob Adams, Haley, and Rich Foster, the moron who let a zombie sneak up on him in broad daylight in the middle of a wide-open street. And how many of those people did Merle actually kill? Just the one?

– Thanks to Carl for reminding me that there was a man named Oscar in this show and that he died.

– How long until baby Judith grows up, shaves her head, starts grumbling, "You have no idea what I been through, Rick!" and stomps around like Shane?

– I didn't mention any of the conversations between the survivors because I don't think any of them were really relevant to anything. And the conversations we witnessed could've happened between any of the characters, just swap 'em out with whomever. What this show needs is to form strong bonds between specific individuals, be they negative or positive. Sure, Maggie and Glenn are tight, but aside from that, it's just a collection of people, some with family ties that don't even seem that strong.

– Just shake Tyreese's hand, Rick. Come on.

– I liked how Daryl got his crossbow back. He just nicked it out of that guy's hand.

– Sunday's episode set a new ratings record for the series with 12.3 million viewers. But will that trend continue? If the show hasn't peaked, it's very close to doing so. Right? RIGHT?




Follow TV.com writer Tim Surette on Twitter if you want to: @TimAtTVDotCom

Comments (164)
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That's it. The Walking Dead will never be great. It'll just be that show which ruined its potential.
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Tim, I love your reviews. It's very seldom I disagree with your views but what I love most is your humour. Your point about the Woodbury moron who bit the dust In a wide open street had me in stitches. Keep the great reviews coming!
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Tim you are the best reviewer. May you always be free of zombie bites !
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Carol would understand? Carol would understand?! Carol would UNDERSTAND?! Daryl Dixon you're the most resourceful idiot on the planet. Be grateful Rick isn't Shane or he would've stole poor, sweet, understanding weeping Carol the minute you walked away with your brother.
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At this point, the only characters on the show I feel anything for, and who seems to be interesting, sympathetic and good guys, are Daryl and new guy Tyreese. And that's a low number with all the people too choose from...
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Why dis Michonne? The writers gave her like one line then Rick locked her in a jail cell... Michonne, out of all the female characters, has the most potential. The problem with The Walking Dead -- which this writer thoroughly spelled out in this opus of a review -- is the writing is just pretty awful. And the writing for women characters is even worse!!!! Don't write Michonne off yet..
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What i want to know is What happened to Lenny James ??. Rick met him in the start of season 1, was supposed to meet up with him later on and left radio messages to tell him where he was every day, how come he hasn't been brought into the show ?. He is a good actor, was great in Jericho and is jsy what TWD needs to add some character to the show.
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I loved that guy. There is a spoiler out there on Youtube confirming that he does come back this season. Someone watched the taping of a scene with him in it.. But who knows for how long he will be on the show..
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"Ummm this white boy be crazy, let's bounce" ROFL, that is exactly the look he gave isnt it :D
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I agree with you up to a point. I think the show does have these characters written really well and it's going to pick back up. This shouldn't have been the episode that they significantly slowed down because it brought the viewing audience down off of such a high, but it was still needed. A show can't keep going like that for too long without people saying that the characters aren't developed enough as it is. It's premature to say that The Walking Dead is headed downhill and we won't be seeing more of the same seeing as Rick and his group have never had to deal with a turf war with another group of survivors before.
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Time for Carl to die. The kid simply can't act.
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Finally someone else said it... I don't understand why they give him so much air time
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I was so afraid that someone would judge me for that , cuz I think the same thing,
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:D
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I agree with most of the episode's analysis...but no offense Tim, you always jump to conclusions. You base this one episode (yes, it wasn't great) and say that the rest of the season will be bad.
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ok , this season was the best and whatever it is coming i guess it will be the strongest season of the first ones.
But geez this episode , i would not say bad or weak , i just felt empty all the way!!! -.-
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If anyone hasn't already said it for this weekly review. Fuck you Andrea and everything you stand for! Dumbass broad.
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I just watch it for the zombie fighting.
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I agree with damn near everything in this review. I was watching the episode and kept walking away and just couldn't care less. I'm starting to ask myself some of the questions posed here, like where the show's going and what it's trying to be - action/horror or soap opera. The constant rehash is definitely getting old. They need to shake things up and progress in some way. I may have been a little slow on the uptake, but it seems the only real daring and creativity the production team is putting into this is in the gore and violence department. Otherwise, it's just slouching around to new hold-ups until they become too unsafe and dealing with trust and power struggle issues in the meantime. There desperately needs to be something new injected into the formula. Go big or go home. Let's see some exploration with a cure or flashbacks to the politics involved in how the apocalypse was handled or have the gang run into a zombie worshiping cult. I don't care! Something! Anything! I just want some Very Special Episodes that switch up the same old, same old.
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i think it is irritating that the governor somehow doesnt seem to be evil to me at all, actually i think michonne is at fault for attacking him without any reason, what exactly has he done up to this point?
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He's mentally unstable and the fact that you are second guessing whether he's evil or not is a good thing cause it means the writers are doing a good job in character development. A villain doesn't have to be all evil, the same goes for the hero. The best example I can think of from TV is Regina from Once upon a time. She's the villain of the show and still very likable !
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Lmao doesn't seem evil to you? So minus all the creepy shady shit he's done. The two that stuck out the most to me were killing that military guys friends for no reason. And mentally raping Maggie and implying he could have done much worse. Oh and what Knoxera said too. Sending your group of attack dogs to murder Michonne... can't really blame her for not being a fan of his.
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Er, he did send out a team of his flunkies to murder her.
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Can we get a .gif of Rick smacking Merle upside the head? I enjoyed this episode, but what killed it for me, was Lori's ghost. If the Woodbury morons are King of the Dicks, then Lori's ghost would the Queen of the Dicks, with Andrea lurking to steal her crown. Hopefully it grows back from the slow burn of this episode, though the previews show some promise.

I don't know who gets the crown for best "walk in the park" approach to killing someone and acting like it was going for mail, Victoria Grayson on last Sunday's Revenge, or the Governor.
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Didn't like the way Rick looked at beth... Dont make Carl go medieval on yo ass
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It seems the show is back to the slow pace it was in the first half of season 2. Nothing really happened in this episode!

Also I must say I'm disappointed in Michonne and the Governor. I expected so much more from them by now. Michonne barely speaks anything and the Governor isn't as evil or crazy as I expected him to be.

As for Daryl and Merle... well, the following is just what I think is going to happen! Just an idea! That said, I do believe their escape is part of a plan the Governor put in motion back in episode Made Them Suffer. Do you remember the scene where the Governor had had his wounds attended and Merle enters the room? Well, I believe that's when the Governor told him he would put him to fight his brother in the arena, they would escape and Merle would gain his brother confidence and discover where the prison is. All that Merle has to do now is make Daryl tell/show him the way to the prison. I don't think it will take much talking. And then Merle can go back to the Governor who will attack the prison.
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It seems the show is back to the slow pace it was in the first halt of season 2. Nothing really happened in this episode!

Also I must say I'm disappointed in Michonne and the Governor. I expected so much more from them by now. Michonne barely speaks anything and the Governor isn't as evil or crazy as I expected him to be.

As for Daryl and Merle... well, the following is just what I think is going to happen! Just an idea! That said, I do believe their escape is part of a plan the Governor put in motion back in episode Made Them Suffer. Do you remember the scene where the Governor had had his wounds attended and Merle enters the room? Well, I believe that's when the Governor told him he would put him to fight his brother in the arena, they would escape and Merle would gain his brother confidence and discover where the prison is. All that Merle has to do now is make Daryl tell/show him the way to the prison. I don't think it will take much talking. And then Merle can go back to the Governor who will attack the prison.
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Well that was kind of a disappointment.

And ghost Lori is equally a useless dead as she was alive.
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I was rolling my eyes so hard during Andrea's speech that one nearly popped out. Zombie style. Enough with the cheese, guys, I can't take it!

Basically, the only interesting storyline right now is the brothers Dixon hightailing it into the woods. It's the ONLY thing we haven't seen a billion times before, though I'd be willing to bet money that they'll just rehash that Daryl/Hallucinatory Merle convo-in-the-woods scene. Rick losing his mind? Ugh, kill me. And I thought we'd never have to see Lori again, WTF?
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It definitely was a set up episode. I personally liked character development, but it was real striking how the pace suddenly slowed from the episodes prior. I think it was feasible to at least have that done in a faster pace. Glad Haley is gone though, she wouldn't be that useful to anyone, how they make good use of her bow and arrow though.
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I'd just like to say that Ghost Lori really sucked. This show is just spinning its wheels now. Sad.
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NPC stands for "non-player character". NOW who's the non-gamer, Tim?

I'll give you a hint:

The answer is you.
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Kill Maggie along with Glenn and replace them with Tyrese and his sister (or wife) they are more real.
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noooo not Glenn!!
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Ahhh please dont let this be a Opie situation with Daryl, slowy start to push him away from the group only for him to return for the ultimate sacrifice.... I will STOP watching! And i agree, they do need to build on the characters, maybe through flash backs so we can to learn and care about the charaters and how they've had to adopt to change, thats why even though Shane turned evil, you still saw that bit of humanity left, like when he went back for Rick.
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Oh, I wanted to like this episode so bad!! But it turned out a bit "same old, same old". I think that's the problem with cutting TV series in two - all the expectation builds up and usually you get nothing as a reward. I just hate it when networks do that - show this damn thing complete, already! The story is making very slow progress, especially this thing with Michonne. I used to think she was a great character, now I'm not sure anymore. Nothing's been developed in that storyline. Can you writers give us something, please? And Rick going nuts AGAIN? Honestly, I don't think I can stand it one more time. How about some new problems? I'm so with Tim on the Woodbury people: they can't get more stupid than that! They wanna leave with a thousand walkers waiting outside! I laughed so much at Tim's "the moron who let a zombie sneak up on him in broad daylight in the middle of a wide-open street." Great line! Oh please, please, TWD , don't let us down!! :-(
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Was the woodbury woman, with the grey hair and glasses, who was nodding during angelas speech a zombie in disguise? Or maybe she is rich foster's wife ?
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Also, I know I am in the minority, but I really don't want Andrea to die! I want her to get back together with the group, make up with Michonne and side-eye crazy Rick. This show needs Laurie Holden! Though my eternal love for her is probably stems from the fact that she will always be Marita Covarrubias to me :D.
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I don't want Andrea to die either! But girl needs some better material- I miss when she was cool and kicked ass. Let's get back to that, writers.
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The Walking Dead is turning into one of those shows, where you can see the potential, you can practically smell it and feel it too, but where the show runners choose storylines that don't do anybody justice. Between Darryl and Carol, Carl and Beth, Michonne and Andrea, Hershel and Rick and Glenn and Maggie there are a number of relationships that are interesting and could be fleshed out nicely while still including all the death, gore and fighting I have come to love about this show. But allas, that doesn't seem to be happening. Instead we get an Andrea that stays with the governer, a crazy Rick, a speechless Michonne and ghost Lori.

Please show, be better! I know you can do it! I'm still excited about the next episode, I promise!
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That was weak one. Beginning was energetic but then everything went down to mumbling and trying to say something important. Walking dead ain't good at deep interactions between characters only through immediate threat or tension and action. That's funny that we know more about characters of WD through their actions not through dry pointless dialogues.
Im afraid that all that Andrea's ridiculous behavior (sticking with Governor though she did find out about his perverse habits and sick nature but still kinda in love? with him? What?) preventing her from escaping from Woodbury and Governor just to drag this plotline to the end and then set it up for final clash between Andrea and her former group of decent people. And that obvious screenwriters' intention is irritating coz contradicts and ridicules character's behavior, any adequate reasonable character. I know WD at times gets into this ridiculousness of mediocre series. But i don't understand why do we need to wait for some kind of final bloodshed? Why not just to allow series' situations unfold itself? If there can be some actions then there must be some actions. Why all that drag?
And I don't wanna see Andrea's ludicrous awful speeches and her idiotic behavior (why not run from crazy Governor, follow her friends?) it makes her better candidate for next character death. And I don't wanna see Glenn's hysterical behavior (smashing zombie heads, silent glare et cet), it's not that convincing first of all and not that necessary second of all. And better off Maggie soon.
And why all this exaggerating Rick's paranoia when some new people to arrive? His reaction laughable (especially his crazy antics). It's like he did his crazy stunt to drive Tyrese away and avoid handshaking him. It's ridiculous!!! I like these two (not whites ones) let them stay. We need fresh faces, coz we tired of old faces already. And we tired of Rick's idiocy and cartoon paranoia.
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YAWN. This was dull as dishwater. I'm so close to giving up on this show.
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This episode felt like everything had been readjusted slightly for the new 'Driver'
Woodbury went from being a dangerous, almost suicide mission to get into place, to then Rick and the gang popping back up and easily turning them over to get Daryl back. A few other bits felt slightly off and as if there was a slight change in direction but overall it was OK.
Agree with Tim that it was bad timing at best to slow the pace down and this episode lacked the impact of the season's first half.
However, hopefully, it's just a readjustment episode and we'll see things moving along next episode on.
One thing I will say is that I disagree with the comments about the Woodbury citizens. They're a crowd of individuals ruled by a mini dictator and people are like sheep at times and easily get whipped up into a frenzy. Not that they didn't annoy the hell outa me but I don't think it was unbelievable for them to be so fickle.
Rick- that was hilarious! he's having an epic breakdown whilst still trying to keep the group together. I liked the tenderness from Hershel and the support of the group to gently try and appeal to his humanity again and let people in. It was also good we were shown that his robot like behaviour was cos he is feels responsible for EVERYONE! This may be a turning point from follow me implicitly or leave back to a more relaxed, human, feeling Rick. THEN he goes bonkers!! hehehe. Love it.
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What the hell happened to the whole Andrea being talented with a firearm thing? She unloaded a whole clip into a zombie and hit it once. At close range. She really has gone down the drain.
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Please, please, please kill Rick. My god, I can't stand that guy. What an asshole he's become. Extenuating circumstances be damned. OFF with his heaaaaaaad!
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as TWD IS about Rick, killing him off would like mean killing TWD. not so sure you'd like that, huh?
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Oh my, I hit a nerve.
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I don't get it Tim. You never miss an opportunity to pick apart every Fantasy and Sci-Fi show that does not meet your standards of perfection.

And yet every week shows like VEGAS stink up network TV, and rarely a peep from you.

Why don't you skewer something else. Leave the Fantasy ans Sci Fi shows alone.
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I think if you look back at tims reviews of TWD they are mostly favourable. Also he wrote great reviews about fringe which got me back into watching the show.
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I agree with the first part of that statement but slagging off Vegas? Sorry I think it's a really great new show and very enjoyable to watch.
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I get it. We all have shows we like and dislike...we all tolerate certain shortfallings of shows we enjoy. But sci/fantasy is by definition not real, willing suspension and all that. When I watch a drama show, particularly a period show, my disbelief valve is on a different setting because I want more realism and grit ... if a drama or period show goes off that path too much it shakes the viewer out of the experience.

Vegas is "easy" to watch ... i've watched every episode. But it's like watching live action cartoons. The mobsters are like actors at a theme park.
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Also, I'd like to think that Haley's death was an apology for introducing an Olympic hopeful archer who couldn't even hit a zombie. Her unceremonious dispatch was a silent acknowledgment that she shouldn't have survived long enough to even make it to Woodbury in the first place.
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Alright, can we please just kill Andrea off now? I loved her character in the comics, but TV Andrea ain't her, and it seems she's never going to *be* her. The Governor admits to keeping the presence of her friends from her, she sees evidence that Michonne was right about people not being allowed to leave Woodbury, and how does she respond? "Don't do that. Don't drive me out." .... Please put us out of our misery and killer her off. We've had enough disappointment.
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Yeah, what is the stupid cow waiting for?? Does she still want to be Mrs. Governor???
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I so needed some Andrea hate. May I remind you that after showing how useless she was it took them 3 seasons to kill Lori? So since Andrea became a big nuisance recently ( even if I must admit she had her moment with Dale and Shane) they're not gonna grant this wish anytime soon. For her stupidity she deserves to die by the hands of the governor and some walkers.
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The thing is, Lori never bothered me. I could actually understand her latching onto Shane based on a primal desire to have someone to protect her and her son. She broke things off when she discovered Rick was alive, and what people viewed as her pitting Rick and Shane against each other, I saw as her basically trying to keep everyone together. She saw Shane a strong protector, so she didn't just want him to leave. Plus, she probably equated going off on your as tantamount to suicide. Sure, she made poor decisions, but I thought they followed a logical progression based on her previous choices and her current situation. Remember, she wasn't actually aware of Shane's craziness.

Andrea, on the other hand, turned her back on the woman who saved her life at the farm, and kept her alive during the winter when she was barely able to move, let alone fend for herself. Michonne provided food and safety for her, and as thanks, Andrea completely dismissed her and jumped in bed with the very person Michonne was warning her about. She has ignored clues, she has accepted complete and utter bullshit excuses, and is still worried about this guy who she was warned about pushing her away. Really? Oh. My. God.

I guess what makes it more painful is that Lori didn't really deviate from the books in terms of personality and motivation. There was no disappointment there. I knew what to expect. But Andrea? Her character is a complete departure from what we know of her in the books. If this is the direction they planned on taking with her, I'd rather they have killed her, and let Amy live instead. Then this could be Amy being an idiot in Woodbury, and I wouldn't be as upset because it wouldn't be Andrea. I find this akin to making a movie about Superman and portraying him as a bully.
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So you're saying that Lori wasn't doing all this out of malice, that she was just trapped by Shane's madness and maybe her own stupidity at the end?
I think she created this stinky situation by letting things get worse because she was too ashamed or afraid to tell Rick the truth in the first place. I remember Andrea telling her in Hershel's home that she was taking everything for granted with her son, her husband and her boyfriend on the side. She really didn't care about the consequences.
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I specifically cited Superman as being portrayed as a bully; the tendencies of Kryptonians in general is irrelevant to the discussion.

Also, your telling of Lori's actions would be akin to saying "Rick convinced Shane not to leave the group, and then turned around and killed him." Lori's actions were very in the moment. She told Rick about Shane to warn him because she was afraid at that point. Had she not said anything at all, we'd be crucifying her for not disclosing crucial information about the a guy Rick trusted with his life.
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Well the habitants of Krypton are bullies. They were always shocked to discover that with his abilities Clark Kent wasn't turning us into his slaves but I get your point.

Concerning Lori you forgot the part (in the tv serie not in the comic books, she didn't live that long to be a pain) where shee went into Rick's tent hugged him from behind and whispered in his ear " Shane is dangerous, he doesn't think you're a fit leader, he thinks the baby is his, he thinks I'm his, he doesn't think you can protect us."
She deliberately pitted Rick against his best friend by appealing to his alpha side and then, when what couldn't be avoided happened, she pushed Rick away when he told her he didn't have a choice and killed Shane. Remember that part? That was the end of Lori.
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Hm, I kind of must disagree as I thought the mid-season premiere was pretty awesome and strong. Ok, there were some shortcomings, but overall it gave us some character development, some bonding and change of dynamics within groups and between them. It can't be all about kill 'em all after all, and this talk about it sort of episode IMo was well delivered and executed. Only things that bug me is Andrea still sticking with Woodbury and the Gov, and even more so Michone - i get she must be a total introvert or something, but could she please get some decent lines along the way?
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Yeah Michonne needs to stop grunting and start talking.
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I thought Beth was just thanking Rick for going back to save her sister.
I agree with the other commenters in that it would have been soo much better for them to kill of Andrea rather than Lori. Lori was starting to grow on me and if anything she was more fun to hate on. Andrea is just an idiot, she is one of those weak minded women that just have blinders on when it comes to to the guy they are sleeping with and is willing to give every benefit of the doubt over people she actually knows. What else does the Governor have to do to prove that hes a sketchy psycho?
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I liked Andrew Lincoln doing his best Claire Danes impression...
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I thought Beth's kiss was sweet, like a welcome home... Never got that weird vibe.
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Yeah Rick is no lady creep.
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Actually I support Tim..It felt a little awkward and sexual for me too. I said to myself: So this one is going to replace Lori.
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agreed, that was a really sweet 'thank you for bringing my sis back in one piece' moment, i just can't even imagine how some one could have seen something this disgusting in such a sweet gesture
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Agreed, think it's Tim just making a douche comment for the sake of making a douche comment to come across all laddish, failed big time IMO.
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I keep holding out hope for Michonne and Andrea. They are my favorite characters in the comics and I hate how they are being characterized in the show. It seems that everyone in the zombie apocalypse turn into mindless yes men and have no problem following irrational jerks. I would hope that being under constant attack would heighten your survival instincts and make you aware that crazy people shouldn't be in charge. The Woodbury scenes were the worst. Where did the people think they were going to go? Why haven't they learned that loud noises bring more zombies? Why didn't anyone put the poor suffering guy out of his misery? Do they not know where zombies come from? Ugh, so many disappointing things - hopefully this season gets better. Definitely looking forward to The Walking Rednecks.
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I really don't understand why the comic book writer let them butcher his characters!!!
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Gawd, numbers like that will simply reinforce AMC's mistaken belief that good ratings mean they're hitting a home run each and every time at the plate. My impression of them is that they're an egotistical network that thinks it can do no wrong, obviously overlooking the several bombs that they've turned out.

AMC, you are *not* HBO. AMC, you are *not* FX. Indeed they have made several truly great shows -- Breaking Bad is legendarily good -- but their overall track record really isn't all that much to crow about. I think it's this belief in their own consistent excellence that makes them think it's perfectly fine to double or triple their carriage fees to the TV providers. And when those providers balk, AMC is ultra-quick to play the victim card, resulting in the nearly incessant visual assault pleading viewers to "Call Dish/DTV/Verizon/whomever's-next-on-our-blackmail-list and demand they keep us on!" It's way past annoying.

If you want to aspire to greatness, maybe start with reining in your greed a bit and crying loudly when it doesn't work. It makes you look amazingly petty and leaves a very bad taste in the minds of many a viewer.
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Underwhelming episode imo Daryl's gone, Merle's still alive, Ricks being a dick to just about everybody, Governors boring, and Andrea is just...Andrea.
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Yeah, yeah, agree! Merle shouldn't ever have left Woodbury alive! Kill this jerk off, already! And when is the Governor finally going to man up? Not much of a villain so far! And Rick's going nuts again! And Andrea still sticking with the Woodbury guys!! Oh my!
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lol ikr when is he going to man up I heard in the comic books he was really scary & vile guy but im not really seeing that.
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Yeah, I'm still waiting for that to happen. What will it take him? Lose the other eye? So far, he's just been a stupid coward - ambushing soldiers, patronizing women. I hope there's more to him than that.
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I really don't think Rick is all that much of a dick. According to hows timeline it's been like a max couple of days since Lori's death, so one mustn't expect for him to put it straight in just one short episode (phone call eppy), grieving and traumatic shock aren't all that easy to cope with, so go figure. though I hope it won't take up too much time of the show in the end
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OK, I see your point - getting over someone's death takes time - but I thought the phone call episode was their way of wrapping things up. However, taking TWD's history into consideration, it could probably drag until the season finale! I think there's too much on the back burner waiting to be dealt with, and precious time is being wasted. We're exactly where we were before the midseason break!! I think this is unacceptable. I waited for two months to learn what I already knew!
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well, that fits TWD pretty well IMO. First half of 2nd season was just running in circles and talk talk talk. there was some hype at the end of 2nd season and the beginning of the 3rd that TWD got all action on action packed one, but IMO as TWD is about people and their survival both through slashing zombies and interacting with one another, this stalling and repeating fits really well into overall picture. In real life people also do things like this, maybe in less crazy way, but they stall, go into denial, etc.
But entertainment wise of cause faster moving on would be also good
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Agreed, but sometimes I think this human aspect is not done as well as it could be - I've seen other shows doing it better. Well, I guess we'll just have to be patient and wait and see.
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Am I to understand that the Tyreese story has come to an end already, if so that would be very disappointing, and the hole Rick seeing ghost Lori, come on.

I am a big fan of the comics and have enjoyed the series even with its differences, but if this is the way it is going i don't know what to do.

I still believe that the writers should bring the series back in line with the comics as alot of fans out there haven't read the comics and those that have would love to see it play out in live action, however they would need to make the series darker to do that, considering the comic has some scenes that would be shocking in conparision.
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i would have been happier had they killed Andrea instead of Lori...it might just be me but i find andrea to be such a douchey character that it's hard to care what happens to her. i mean when she told the governor she was mad that he didn't tell her that her friend was there...all i could think of was the fact that all they have been doing was screwing why does she think there is any other connection between them also these people are not her friends she basically went against them for most of the series especially when she was screwing shane. so can she just get bit or something already
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That's where you're wrong. In Andrea's mind they have a connection. She knows his name! That's really big.
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First half season two felling -ugh ...
It's not that bad, but somewhere along I hated everyone even Glenn(bitchin') and Rick(keepit togetherrrr!) ...
Worst line:
Andrea(to the Gov): "Don't do that. Don't shut me out." !!!
Come on Governor, let Andrea "in" ... welcome her to your inner sanctum let her indulge in your pathetic, creepy mind, show her your rotten heart!
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I think after the window scene he must think she's getting too comfortable with him. Maybe he'll torture her and then let his men have their way with her.
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I was kind of hoping those 2 new guys would try and take Carl's gun so he could kill them in some awesome way. I usually hate children on TV shows but Carl has become a real badass this season. I groaned out loud when Andrea began her speech. I hope to God she is killed off this season.
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why is glenn mad at maggie? did i miss something?? was she in fact rape?
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I don't think Glen is mad at Maggie. If anything it would be the other way around. I think he's being overprotective because of what she went through which is pushing her away, in a way. Victimizing her without realizing it.
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Well, there's also the fact that she went up and told the Governor exactly where everyone else was. I understand wanting to save Glenn's life, but she endangered EVERYONE else's life in the process. Why couldn't she say they were back at her farm instead?

Glenn took a hell of a beating trying to keep his family safe from this maniac, and she completely invalidated his sacrifice in like 5 seconds.
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Oh, I on the contrary think that he IS angry with her, with Rick and the world itself, like he is projecting all his inner anger in these outbursts and splashes fall all around him in all the unexpected ways. First of all he seems to be angry with himself for not being able to protect her in the first place, he also might be not fully convinced she wasn't raped by Gov or something, he hates Rick for letting Merle walk free and alive and letting Daryl leave the group, etc.
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agreed!
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