30 Days Forums

Planet Green (ended 2008)

Atheist/Christian episode

  • Avatar of watchtheoffice

    watchtheoffice

    [1]Aug 9, 2006
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    I really like some episodes of the show, but I think this week's show was very unfair. The point of the show is for 30 days to impact your views. That wasn't accomplished in the least bit. Why I'm saying this is that I feel Morgan changed this weeks format for his own views. The person entering the 30 days should be changed, correct? To get the message he wanted across why wouldn't he have the Christian live with the Atheists? I think he should have had the Atheist live with some other Christian family. Who wasn't from Texas or Baptist. No offence, but that is what's taken as the typical American family. All that happened was the Atheist's views were confirmed. It was a poor job done by Morgan.
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    mrfixitright

    [2]Aug 10, 2006
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    I keep saying that we, as Americans, need to get past our differences and realize that we can and do live in a diverse culture. I don't have to completely agree with my neighbor on everything to be a good neighbor. I think that the show, 30 Days, does this very well.

    I disagree with watchtheoffice that the person entering the home of another is the one who's views should be changed. I think it is more important that everyone walks away with a better understanding of how the other thinks and feels. I saw this happen on the Atheist/Christian episode. No one needed to be converted of de-converted.

    I think that it was a wise decision to place a woman in the Atheist role. A male Atheist would have made the show more confrontational. Having said that, I really wish that I could have been the Atheist in this episode. The Christians in this episode were portrayed as very moderate as was the Atheist. I watched the episode answering the questions posed by the bible study group.

    Overall I liked the episode and I was pleased to find that the usual negative portrayal of Atheists on TV did not show up in this show

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    watchtheoffice

    [3]Aug 10, 2006
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    I'm a Christian and like you would of like to have been in the conversation, and I get what you saying about the episode. I just think that part of the point of the show is for the person entering the show to be changed, and that would've been done if the Christian lived with the Atheist.

    Quick question. I have a lot of friends who would consider themselves Atheists, but not to the point of a religion. What's the deal with Atheism as a religion? That was something that came through in the show, and I just don't really understand that. Do you consider it a religion? Don't be offended, but it comes off to me as people being greedy and wanting the tax write-off.

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    frogman27

    [4]Aug 10, 2006
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    It's not about Atheism as a religion. It's that religions have stopped being about worship and fellowship and started being about political action committies and influencing government. We athesist are looking at forming organized groupings to try and fight the constant sucking sound made by our individual rights going down the tube.

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    PIMagic37

    [5]Aug 10, 2006
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    I watched the show last night with great interest. Spurlock did a show last year where a Christian lived with a Muslim for 30 days, and at the end of it the Christian put a copy of the Koran next to the Bible on his bookshelf. I can only wonder if he seriously read either one. The greatest pleasure in the atheist/Christian show was that neither side came off as a caricature. Brenda (the atheist) was intelligent and interesting, and I'm sure there would have been more fireworks if a man had been in her place. The Christian family seemed to have a sincere, smart faith, but I have a few quibbles with the way they engaged Brenda in debate, which I will post after I watch the episode again. On balance, I'm glad the Christian faith wasn't held up to ridicule on this show, although its continual message that all world views have equal validity is totally wrong. More to come ... Carrie
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    texanbychoice

    [6]Aug 10, 2006
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    First of all I enjoyed the episode on Immigration. Both had a very strong opinions, but at the end you walk away understanding from both sides. Both did a great job by "Selling" in what they believes... Atheist/Christian? hmmm.. I felt the Atheist did a great job expressing her views. I felt the Christian Family kinda program by the church and he wasnt expressing with a passion. (Good gawd!! talk to me!!, Convince me to walk in your shoes!!Sell me the reasons about being a Christian!).. there is over 5000 pages in the Bible, and Jesus lived almost 3/4 of his life, and  all you can do is take a scripture out of th Bible and says the same thing over and over. Whether Christians lives in Indiana, Georgia, Kansas or Texas they all have one common slogan, that is call "Christian Lipservice" only another Christian want to hear it. As a Christian I think we need to a better job Communicating ..or Convincing ..or Selling in what you believes and leave No doubts for people to question....I think both families are "Awesome"..Do I think the Atheist will go to heaven? Yes I do.. I think they are living a life Jesus want them to live...      

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    frogman27

    [7]Aug 10, 2006
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    texanbychoice wrote:
    in what you believes and leave No doubts for people to question....I think both families are "Awesome"..

    Do I think the Atheist will go to heaven? Yes I do.. I think they are living a life Jesus want them to live...      

    Two thoughts, you can't sell your beliefs, because they're just that, faith in something you can't prove. If anyone could prove the validity of their god belief why would anyone believe anything else? Also, not meaning this to sound rude, but the atheist doesn't expect or want to go to heaven. She expects to be buried and rot, and she's OK with it.

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    pink2006

    [8]Aug 10, 2006
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    i really liked the show, and the fact that the christians were able to experience (to say the least) a bit of the atheist life (when Brenda took her host family to the small reunion w/ friends). although i felt that the host family was a bit defensive most times, overall, the show was very good.
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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [9]Aug 10, 2006
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    The problem here is that both world views cannot be correct. Either this life is all there is, or there is something more. Either we pass into nonexistence at death or we go somewhere else.

    The Bible says that you don't get to heaven by leading a "good life," whatever your personal feelings are about what that means. If Brenda, her husband, and her children, do not trust and believe in what Jesus Christ said about how to get to God, they will spend all eternity in a place of torment, and it hurts me to think about it.

    Brenda was quite cryptic in the episode about what drove her away from her Christian roots. I suspect that she had questions that her Christian leaders and peers didn't know the answers to, and she either had no ability or no desire to seek out the real answers.

    When asked where she thought she came from, Brenda simply said that she came from her parents. Big deal. This does nothing for explaining how life could have sprung from the rocks millions of years ago. She talked about natural law, but at least in the show she did not articulate where that law comes from. The Founding Fathers said that our rights were inalienable because they came from a Creator. But if the state gives the rights ("One nation under the government") then they can take them away. And she's not concerned about that?

    Brenda may have a supportive and loving husband, great kids, and decent values, but she has those things in spite of her world view, not because of it. She has a Judeo-Christian value system, but I would not be surprised if her children reject some of those values (to their peril) because there's no real foundation under those beliefs. She may not want to go to heaven, and God won't force her to go there against her will, but nonexistence is not an option. She's bound to get a rude awakening when death is not what she thinks.

    And mostly I'm sad for her kids.
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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [10]Aug 10, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 08/10/2006 3:45pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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    flowerdew

    [11]Aug 10, 2006
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    Brenda may have a supportive and loving husband, great kids, and decent values, but she has those things in spite of her world view, not because of it.

    Hmmmm...So you equate your Christian beliefs with morality and family? And because Brenda does not adhere to the Christian religion it is therefore antithetical for her to be a moral person naturally and makes her exceptionally lucky in terms of a good marriage and bright children? So, just the state of being human, with all the intellect and ability contained therein, is not significantly enough for a person to live a moral lifestyle through reason and logic? As if humankind alone, through its own devices, never would have developed into society, and created the rules by which we all (or at least most) live were it not for the guidance of some supernatural power? Gee, you aren't giving people much credit at all? Not like a person couldn't learn from cause and effect, or feel a connection or empathy for other people, or just desire to do good because it feels good... Because without God, in your view, it is unlikely that a person live a law abiding, polite, and fulfilling life within the ethical confines of society? Because without a church community, she shouldn't have a good husband, good kids, and good values?

    Besides...I'm sure death is not what you think it is either. Truth is no one can say with any certainty what happens when we die.
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    Kevinthemovie

    [12]Aug 10, 2006
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    I believe this episode in the series was almost sickening. I was christian, then i was athiest, now i am christian again. Trust me, i KNOW both sides of the story. And both the christians and the athiests in this show were extremely closed minded. The only person who i felt was open to other ideas was the wife in the christian family. Her husband seemed like he was feeling some compassion when they met with that group of athiests, but then when the "In God We Trust" issue came up, he lost it.
        "If you don't like it, then move."
        That was the most rediculous statement made on the show. And on the other end of the spectrum, the athiest lady felt like her and her fellow athiests are discriminated against, and in some aspects is this true, but honestly, she took it too far. She used it as an excuse it seemed. I don't know, call me crazy, but that's just how it all came across to me.

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    PIMagic37

    [13]Aug 10, 2006
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    To the poster two steps above:

    The stark truth is this: I am saying that a Judeo-Christian world view gives the only foundation for morality. Without God, man becomes the measure of all things, chooses his own standards of right and wrong. And without an absolute ethic, who can discern between them?

    You know, lots of times the bad feels good as much or more than good feels good. Can you tell me what would make an Abraham Lincoln (The Great Emancipator) any different than Josef Stalin, who executed 30 million people during his rule in Russia? He kept his power and influence that way, which obviously made him feel really good. Without God, we are slaves to our natural instincts for power and control. If Brenda would ever realize this, she would be scared to death of her side gaining an increased power and control over our society. Mao, Hitler, Robespierre, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and many others throughout world history are examples of what happens when people try to live without God.

    A godless universe cannot explain the intellect, the sentient consciousness of man. The word "good" really has no meaning there, and neither does the word "love." In your post you are assuming truths that in an atheist's reality are not absolutely true, and man does not naturally develop them on his own. Look at any two-year-old for proof of that.

    If there is a Creator in this universe (and I believe the evidence clearly demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that there is), then He is qualified to tell us what happens when we die. And as it happens, He has. Our responsibility is to discover, understand, and act on what He has told us.

    Edited on 08/10/2006 8:33pm
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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [14]Aug 10, 2006
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    Kevinthemovie wrote:
    Her husband seemed like he was feeling some compassion when they met with that group of athiests, but then when the "In God We Trust" issue came up, he lost it.
        "If you don't like it, then move."
        That was the most rediculous statement made on the show

    The whole meeting at the coffee house was probably a couple of hours long, and we were shown just a few minutes of that discussion. It's possible that he was getting frustrated at the continual desire of this tiny minority to push all reminders of the dominant world view out of sight. Trust me, atheists are much better off living in a Judeo-Christian culture than they would under a fully humanist culture. They can act oppressed all they want, but they are not.

    All Christians ask for is the freedom that the First Amendment recognized, that the state would not interfere with religious faith or practice so long as it respected those inalienable human rights the Creator gave us.

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    mrfixitright

    [15]Aug 11, 2006
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    watchtheoffice wrote:

    "I'm a Christian and like you would of like to have been in the conversation, and I get what you saying about the episode. I just think that part of the point of the show is for the person entering the show to be changed, and that would've been done if the Christian lived with the Atheist."

    I'm not so sure about that. From my perspective I cannot imagine how intelligent adults can, in the 21st century, still believe in the supernatural. Likewise, from the believers perspective it is unimaginable how one doesn't believe. The main difference, I think, is that the believer can take a step that I simply cannot. A leap of faith.

    "Quick question. I have a lot of friends who would consider themselves Atheists, but not to the point of a religion. What's the deal with Atheism as a religion? That was something that came through in the show, and I just don't really understand that. Do you consider it a religion? Don't be offended, but it comes off to me as people being greedy and wanting the tax write-off."



    If you ask just about any Atheist they will adamantly deny that Atheism is a religion. Micheal Newdow gave a speech in 2002 saying that Atheists should not fight this label as it offers Atheists the same constitutional protection as any other religion. He was railed on for this. Atheist, in general, simply dislike the notion that they are in any way a religion. Atheist organizations are for the most part social organizations that offer it's membership a form of community not unlike churches. Humans are social animals so the desire for community should not be surprising.

    Many Atheist organizations are 501c3 tax exempt. This allows them to function as an entity/organization. This also prohibits endorsing political candidates directly. Churches are also prohibited from endorsing political candidates directly but, that doesn't seem to stop some of them from doing it anyway. American Atheist changed it's status to a lobbying organization a few years ago so it could take more direct political action.The organization that I started is strictly a social group with no special tax status.
    http://atheist.meetup.com/cities/us/tx/san_antonio

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  • Avatar of mrfixitright

    mrfixitright

    [16]Aug 11, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:
    The problem here is that both world views cannot be correct. Either this life is all there is, or there is something more. Either we pass into nonexistence at death or we go somewhere else.

    The Bible says that you don't get to heaven by leading a "good life," whatever your personal feelings are about what that means. If Brenda, her husband, and her children, do not trust and believe in what Jesus Christ said about how to get to God, they will spend all eternity in a place of torment, and it hurts me to think about it.

    Brenda was quite cryptic in the episode about what drove her away from her Christian roots. I suspect that she had questions that her Christian leaders and peers didn't know the answers to, and she either had no ability or no desire to seek out the real answers.

    When asked where she thought she came from, Brenda simply said that she came from her parents. Big deal. This does nothing for explaining how life could have sprung from the rocks millions of years ago. She talked about natural law, but at least in the show she did not articulate where that law comes from. The Founding Fathers said that our rights were inalienable because they came from a Creator. But if the state gives the rights ("One nation under the government") then they can take them away. And she's not concerned about that?

    Brenda may have a supportive and loving husband, great kids, and decent values, but she has those things in spite of her world view, not because of it. She has a Judeo-Christian value system, but I would not be surprised if her children reject some of those values (to their peril) because there's no real foundation under those beliefs. She may not want to go to heaven, and God won't force her to go there against her will, but nonexistence is not an option. She's bound to get a rude awakening when death is not what she thinks.

    And mostly I'm sad for her kids.


    You are correct in saying that both views cannot be true. The question then becomes one of evidence that supports one view or the other. From an Atheists perspective no evidence of the supernatural exists. To say that the Bible is inspired by God is meaningless so long as the existence of God is in question. Say what you will about God but, at least admit that your belief is based on faith and not evidence. It is this step, the leap of faith, that I as a Atheist cannot take. Brenda said in the episode that she would just be lying to herself and to everyone else if she claimed to believe.
    I should take the time to explain to you just how offensive the remarks in your post are to an Atheist. I would hope that you could understand that the threat of hell does not effect someone who does not believe that it exists. I'll just leave you with this, don't worry about Brenda's children. I suspect there doing just fine.
    -Vic.
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    mrfixitright

    [17]Aug 11, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:

    To the poster two steps above:

    The stark truth is this: I am saying that a Judeo-Christian world view gives the only foundation for morality. Without God, man becomes the measure of all things, chooses his own standards of right and wrong. And without an absolute ethic, who can discern between them?

    I can, and so can you. It's not rocket science. Man has always been the measure of right and wrong. Actions have consequences. Humans figures this little tidbit out tens of thousands of years ago. Some of those consequences are bad and we discourge the behavour that leads to them. Today we call this law. Our sense of right and wrong has changed the centuries as well. Don't forget that just over a hundred years ago there were Christians who thought they could find Gods blessings on slavery from the Bible.

    It is commonly thought among Atheist that Abe Lincoln was a non-believer. It is a fact that Hitler was a Christian. In his book "Mien Kompt" he writes about killing Jews as doing the lords work. But, so what? It is the actions of these two historical figures that we remember, revere or revile. It is the consequences of their actions that are important for us to remember.

    If it makes you feel good to speculate on the causes of human intellect based on your faith, no problem. Please just admit that it is faith not fact that you are working from. Words like "good" and "love" have the same meaning for me as they do for you and I need not assume anything for this.

    I'm really tired of the old line "look at a two year old" to see the evil nature of humanity. I have a two old and I see nothing evil in him. I know just enough about child development, thanks to science, to understand that he is learning how to assert himself. This is a good thing. It is a perverse assumption that my humanity is something dirty that needs to be purged or apologized for.

    It is our responsibility to descover, understand, act upon and teach to our children how to function in the world of reality -Vic.

    You know, lots of times the bad feels good as much or more than good feels good. Can you tell me what would make an Abraham Lincoln (The Great Emancipator) any different than Josef Stalin, who executed 30 million people during his rule in Russia? He kept his power and influence that way, which obviously made him feel really good. Without God, we are slaves to our natural instincts for power and control. If Brenda would ever realize this, she would be scared to death of her side gaining an increased power and control over our society. Mao, Hitler, Robespierre, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and many others throughout world history are examples of what happens when people try to live without God.

    A godless universe cannot explain the intellect, the sentient consciousness of man. The word "good" really has no meaning there, and neither does the word "love." In your post you are assuming truths that in an atheist's reality are not absolutely true, and man does not naturally develop them on his own. Look at any two-year-old for proof of that.

    If there is a Creator in this universe (and I believe the evidence clearly demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that there is), then He is qualified to tell us what happens when we die. And as it happens, He has. Our responsibility is to discover, understand, and act on what He has told us.

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    frogman27

    [18]Aug 11, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:

    To the poster two steps above:

    The stark truth is this: I am saying that a Judeo-Christian world view gives the only foundation for morality. Without God, man becomes the measure of all things, chooses his own standards of right and wrong. And without an absolute ethic, who can discern between them?

    You know, lots of times the bad feels good as much or more than good feels good. Can you tell me what would make an Abraham Lincoln (The Great Emancipator) any different than Josef Stalin, who executed 30 million people during his rule in Russia? He kept his power and influence that way, which obviously made him feel really good. Without God, we are slaves to our natural instincts for power and control. If Brenda would ever realize this, she would be scared to death of her side gaining an increased power and control over our society. Mao, Hitler, Robespierre, Mussolini, Pol Pot, and many others throughout world history are examples of what happens when people try to live without God.

    A godless universe cannot explain the intellect, the sentient consciousness of man. The word "good" really has no meaning there, and neither does the word "love." In your post you are assuming truths that in an atheist's reality are not absolutely true, and man does not naturally develop them on his own. Look at any two-year-old for proof of that.

    If there is a Creator in this universe (and I believe the evidence clearly demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that there is), then He is qualified to tell us what happens when we die. And as it happens, He has. Our responsibility is to discover, understand, and act on what He has told us.



    Yeah, and hitler was christian as were the participants in the inquisitions, the crusades, and so on... We're fighting a religious war right now. People don't kill each other because they don't believe in god. They kill each other over their interpretation of god or for money. The people you listed above weren't atheists. They just didn't want religion in their culture because religion gives people a rallying point and makes them harder to control.

    As for concerns about atheists going to hell, there's not much threat in someone elses fantasy. I don't believe in hell and I'm sure the shows participating atheist family doesn't either. Why would we care if you think we're going? It might as well be a threat to send us to wonderland.

    And, one last thought, there are lots of religions in the world, and many believe in other gods than you do. Some, like atheistic buhdist's don't believe in deities. Interestingly, most come to the same conclusions about what's right and wrong. That says it has a lot more to do with being human than being christian.
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    frogman27

    [19]Aug 11, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:

    If there is a Creator in this universe (and I believe the evidence clearly demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that there is),

    Would you like to share this undenable evidence?

    Seems like the christian church has been asked for it the last 2000 years and hasn't produced. If they had we'd all be christian.

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    frogman27

    [20]Aug 11, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:

    Kevinthemovie wrote:
    Her husband seemed like he was feeling some compassion when they met with that group of athiests, but then when the "In God We Trust" issue came up, he lost it.
        "If you don't like it, then move."
        That was the most rediculous statement made on the show

    The whole meeting at the coffee house was probably a couple of hours long, and we were shown just a few minutes of that discussion. It's possible that he was getting frustrated at the continual desire of this tiny minority to push all reminders of the dominant world view out of sight. Trust me, atheists are much better off living in a Judeo-Christian culture than they would under a fully humanist culture. They can act oppressed all they want, but they are not.

    All Christians ask for is the freedom that the First Amendment recognized, that the state would not interfere with religious faith or practice so long as it respected those inalienable human rights the Creator gave us.



    We don't believe our rights came from a creator, and most atheists, and I know quite a few, don't have any probelm with you practicing any faith you choose. We just want the constitution upheld, and religion kept out of government. I don't care if you pray at any time. I do think it's wrong to teach religion in the schools and to organize prayers at schools. "under god" needs to be removed from the money and the pledge. I served in my countries military and put my life on the line for it and I'm being told in order to profess my patriotism I'm required to afirme someone elses imaginary friend. Give me a break! Would you want "under alah" in the pledge or on the bills?
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