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Planet Green (ended 2008)

Atheist/Christian episode

  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [41]Aug 13, 2006
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    :

    Humans don't come from rocks, in a planet rich with elements necessary for life it is easy for the elements to begin creating polypeptide chains that then create larger protein chains that then create DNA molecules. Scientists have even created large polypeptide chains (one of the smallest units of life) in labs. So before you make delirious comments maybe you should read a book...you know, something that's non-fiction. The Founding fathers, such as Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, etc. were for the most part naturalists who believed that God did not control our lives. Unfortunately, they were born 100 years before Darwin and never knew about Evolution or Atheism so it would seem impossible that anyone of that time was anything but religious in one way or another.

     My friend, don't insult my intelligence by blithely suggesting that I read a book. Let's just talk about the substance of issues. Attempts to create life -- even the so-called building blocks of life -- in laboratories have been dismal failures. Everything we see in this world, everything we test, seems to prove that you need life to make life.

    Oxygen is necessary to sustain life, but experiments have shown that the presence of oxygen would destroy these "building blocks," which generated the theory of the primitive "reducing" atmosphere. Evidence for that from ancient rocks has proven inconclusive. The famous Miller-Urey experiment has never produced amino acids, proteins, RNA, DNA, or even "primitive" unicellular life forms.

    We've never made life from nonliving material, so if we can't do it with our vast intelligence, how can we just assume that it happened? It strains credibility beyond the breaking point, in my view.

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    PIMagic37

    [42]Aug 13, 2006
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    vokilj wrote:
    PIMagic37 wrote:
    ponz wrote:

    While you are assigning almost everybody to hell as they do not believe as you--Remember this--You believe Jesus tells the truth---according to Jesus--EVERYONE who has ever told a lie will burn in hell forever. This includes the atheist family and the Christian family and me and YOU.  This includes more than 99.99% of the population of people able to speak.  So, per your own beliefs--just about everybody is doomed by your loving God.

    Atheists and agnostics do not really think this makes sense--but it is part of your Christianity.

    David C Taylor



    This simplistic reading of the Scripture is just plain false. What verse are you reading?


    PIMagic37, is correct. The scriptures can't just be read in their simplistic form, the Bible isn't black and white...wait sometimes it is, but sometime's it isn't.


    You're mocking me, aren't you?
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  • Avatar of vokilj

    vokilj

    [43]Aug 13, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:
    :

    Humans don't come from rocks, in a planet rich with elements necessary for life it is easy for the elements to begin creating polypeptide chains that then create larger protein chains that then create DNA molecules. Scientists have even created large polypeptide chains (one of the smallest units of life) in labs. So before you make delirious comments maybe you should read a book...you know, something that's non-fiction. The Founding fathers, such as Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, etc. were for the most part naturalists who believed that God did not control our lives. Unfortunately, they were born 100 years before Darwin and never knew about Evolution or Atheism so it would seem impossible that anyone of that time was anything but religious in one way or another.

     My friend, don't insult my intelligence by blithely suggesting that I read a book. Let's just talk about the substance of issues. Attempts to create life -- even the so-called building blocks of life -- in laboratories have been dismal failures. Everything we see in this world, everything we test, seems to prove that you need life to make life.

    Oxygen is necessary to sustain life, but experiments have shown that the presence of oxygen would destroy these "building blocks," which generated the theory of the primitive "reducing" atmosphere. Evidence for that from ancient rocks has proven inconclusive. The famous Miller-Urey experiment has never produced amino acids, proteins, RNA, DNA, or even "primitive" unicellular life forms.

    We've never made life from nonliving material, so if we can't do it with our vast intelligence, how can we just assume that it happened? It strains credibility beyond the breaking point, in my view.


    Oxygen is not required for life to begin and the more simpler life forms (protis) do not need oxygen, the beginning atmosphere of the Earth did not have free oxygen, the only oxygen was that in dihydrogen monoxide, more advanced animals 'evolved' to utilize oxygen, I still can't get over the fact that you said that Oxygen is required for life. I do relize that we have never went far enough to create ammino acids, but its not because they can't, its because they still don't know how, and it better to find out how then to just give up and say that 'god did it, it was a mircale, that's that'. I didn't mean to insult your intellegence but most people who make comments on evolution haven't even taken a single class on it.
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  • Avatar of vokilj

    vokilj

    [44]Aug 13, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:
    vokilj wrote:
    PIMagic37 wrote:
    ponz wrote:

    While you are assigning almost everybody to hell as they do not believe as you--Remember this--You believe Jesus tells the truth---according to Jesus--EVERYONE who has ever told a lie will burn in hell forever. This includes the atheist family and the Christian family and me and YOU.  This includes more than 99.99% of the population of people able to speak.  So, per your own beliefs--just about everybody is doomed by your loving God.

    Atheists and agnostics do not really think this makes sense--but it is part of your Christianity.

    David C Taylor



    This simplistic reading of the Scripture is just plain false. What verse are you reading?


    PIMagic37, is correct. The scriptures can't just be read in their simplistic form, the Bible isn't black and white...wait sometimes it is, but sometime's it isn't.


    You're mocking me, aren't you?


    In the nicest way possible. Lol, I have much love for hypochristians.
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  • Avatar of ponz

    ponz

    [45]Aug 14, 2006
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    John Adams was railing against Christianity--not Roman Catholism.  Read his other quotes if you wish to see

    what he thought about Christianity.

    The United States declared it was not a Christian Nation per the Treaty of Tripoli.

    David C Taylor

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    ponz

    [46]Aug 14, 2006
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    Glad you see that the bible condones slavery.  It also condones a father giving his daughters for rape and a father

    selling his daughter into slavery.  So, after 1800 years--Christians figured out--slavery was wrong. It would take

    an atheist or agnostic two minutes determine slavery is wrong.

    The Founding Fathers very much wanted to keep religion out of the Constitution.  They had seen the harm and

    divisions -religion makes.  They also wished that everybody could follow their own faith [or lack of faith]

    Sometime, I hope Christians will believe genocide is also wrong even though it is condoned in the Bible.

    David C Taylor

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  • Avatar of ponz

    ponz

    [47]Aug 14, 2006
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    Rev 21:18 "But the fearful (those who do not trust in Jesu), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,

    and whoremongers. and sorcerers. and idolaters. AND ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which

    burneth with fire, and Brimstone."

    The passage about sorcerers resulted in toture of many women and men and then  burning  themat the stake.

    David C Taylor

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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [48]Aug 14, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 08/14/2006 9:51am
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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [49]Aug 14, 2006
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    ponz wrote:

    Glad you see that the bible condones slavery.  It also condones a father giving his daughters for rape and a father selling his daughter into slavery.

    It does not! There's no way you can show that what Lot did was condoned. He was foolishly proposing to exchange one evil for another. In Lot's eyes, the homosexual behavior proposed was a great evil, but like so many people still do today he tried to appease those people by offering them a lesser evil in return. This response is wrong, and any normal reading of the Bible will demonstrate that.

    ponz wrote:
    So, after 1800 years--Christians figured out--slavery was wrong. It would take an atheist or agnostic two minutes determine slavery is wrong.

    Please give me the reason, based in atheism, for why slavery is wrong. I'd very much like to read it.

    ponz wrote:
    The Founding Fathers very much wanted to keep religion out of the Constitution. They had seen the harm and divisions -religion makes. They also wished that everybody could follow their own faith [or lack of faith].

    This country was founded on a Judeo-Christian base, with all its freedom for everybody, not just Christians. But these freedoms are being used now to destroy the freedoms Christians used to have to live out our faith in peace. There is an ongoing attack to remove every visible reminder of Christianity from American history and American life--from the Mt. Soledad Memorial cross to shutting off a valedictorian's microphone because she mentions the name of Jesus Christ in a reverential way--and I'm sick of it.

    ponz wrote:
    Sometime, I hope Christians will believe genocide is also wrong even though it is condoned in the Bible.

    If God is God (and He is), then He had His reasons for telling the Israelites to destroy entire groups of people in the Old Testament. We may think it's harsh, but we're not God. Those reasons had to do with His desire that His people not be contaminated spiritually by people who were against Him, but time and again the Israelites capitulated to their evil, and the Bible tells of the disastrous results. We still don't want to recognize the lessons of history.

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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [50]Aug 14, 2006
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    ponz wrote:
    Rev 21:18 "But the fearful (those who do not trust in Jesu), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers. and sorcerers. and idolaters. AND ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire, and Brimstone." The passage about sorcerers resulted in toture of many women and men and then  burning  themat the stake.

    There are many bad things that happen when people only read part of the Bible and don't cross-check things with the rest of it. This is how one commentary I have explains that verse:

    "As mentioned previously, an overcomer is one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God (1 Jn. 5:5). By faith he overcomes the world (1 Jn. 5:4). 21:8 But not all are overcomers. Some are cowardly, afraid to confess Christ; unbelieving, unwilling to trust the sinner’s Savior; sinners (NKJV marginal reading found in most mss.), all those who remain in their sins, whether guilty of the gross iniquities listed here or not; abominable, given over to disgusting immorality; murderers, malicious and savage killers; sexually immoral, practicing fornication and other forms of sexual sins; sorcerers, those who traffic with evil spirits; idolaters, insulting God by worshiping images; and all liars, compulsive deceivers. These will be assigned to the lake of fire as their final destiny."

    MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. 1997, c1995. Believer's Bible Commentary : Old and New Testaments . Thomas Nelson: Nashville

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  • Avatar of jsha06

    jsha06

    [51]Aug 14, 2006
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    watchtheoffice wrote:
    I think he should have had the Atheist live with some other Christian family. Who wasn't from Texas or Baptist. No offence, but that is what's taken as the typical American family. All that happened was the Atheist's views were confirmed. It was a poor job done by Morgan.
    I dont think it mattered where the athiest came from or where the christian family came from, texas or hawaii i feel the show did a very good job in picking out the christian family and just an FYI: the christian family wasnt babtist like u proclaim they were, if you listened to the episode in the beginning when we were getting to know a little about them they clearly stated that they were non-denonminational.
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  • Avatar of jsha06

    jsha06

    [52]Aug 15, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:

    I cannot prove beyond all doubt that God exists, but I believe that the evidence for God is reasonable and logical, and the evidence that the Bible came from God is similarly reasonable and logical. Better than the alternative, at any rate. I'm willing to entertain any specific questions that any of you have in that regard.
    You seem to be very pro concerning christian beliefs but yet still fall back on "then again i just cant believe that or prove that" maybe you'll find some answers you're looking for at an awsome website called allaboutgod.com it even says right there on the home page "The community for seekers, skeptics, or believers" so go explore and let me know if you've found answers you're looking for
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  • Avatar of jsha06

    jsha06

    [53]Aug 15, 2006
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    ponz wrote:

    You are doing something which atheists and agnostics dislike.  Either believe in my religion or you will burn in hell forever.

    Please realize that Muslims believe Christians will burn in hell forever in the worse kind of torment.

    It is very suspicious that a religion has to be "sold" on the basis of  threats.  It does not stand to reason that a

    God of  Love would assign anyone to hell for eternity. 

    David C Taylor


     

    Thats right god is a god of love and he would love to see everyone on earth seated at his throne with him in heaven but sadly we are given a choice to believe in him or not to and that is what condems us to eternal damnation not "god assigning us to hell" we have a choice to make! whats yours?
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  • Avatar of frogman27

    frogman27

    [54]Aug 15, 2006
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    PIMagic37 wrote:


    Those who say there is no God have a lot of explaining to do, first of all about how we got here. Is biogenesis not a scientific law? Has anyone ever made life from nonliving material in a lab? No, they have not. Is the Bible not the most stunningly preserved piece of ancient literature ever? Is not the resurrection of Jesus Christ the most fantastic fact of history? The answers to these things will influence many of our behaviors when it comes to moral life.

    Why do we whine so much about our rights if it is not a fact that all of us were created ...

    ... equal.


    "Those who say there is no God have a lot of explaining to do, first of all about how we got here. Is biogenesis not a scientific law? Has anyone ever made life from nonliving material in a lab? No, they have not. Is the Bible not the most stunningly preserved piece of ancient literature ever? Is not the resurrection of Jesus Christ the most fantastic fact of history? The answers to these things will influence many of our behaviors when it comes to moral life."
    Actually, Biogenesis is simply the name for life produced by life (live birth, eggs, etc...) Abiogenesis is the scientific term for life produced in other ways.

    We've been around and doing science experiments with the building blocks of life for a few hundred years. It may have taken nature billions of years to produce life. Give us a chance.

    Regarding the bibles preservation, it was assembled by committee and passed on containing the beliefs the people who assembled it wanted it to pass on. Many books were considered, and some of the modern religions use bibles with different books than their christian counterparts. It's not a cut and dried,"look we found the bible" knd of thing

    There are serious reasons to question whether jesus even existed. There are no contemporary writings. There are only a couple mentions of jesus outside of biblical stories, and they are easily debunked. It's very possible jesus was a creation of peter to add credence to the church he was forming.

    You have a vision of your saviour that makes him out to be like you. White, anglo and with your beliefs and values, although you believe you got them from him. The real truth is that if there was a jesus he was much more like an imam in iraq or iran than like the image you have of him. He would have come from a culture much like theirs. You complained about taking messages out of context. Thats exactly what you do when you read the bible and try to apply it to modern day America. Look at the audiance it was really written for.
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  • Avatar of frogman27

    frogman27

    [55]Aug 15, 2006
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    [QUOTE="PIMagic37"]This country was founded on a Judeo-Christian base, with all its freedom for everybody, not just Christians. But these freedoms are being used now to destroy the freedoms Christians used to have to live out our faith in peace. There is an ongoing attack to remove every visible reminder of Christianity from American history and American life--from the Mt. Soledad Memorial cross to shutting off a valedictorian's microphone because she mentions the name of Jesus Christ in a reverential way--and I'm sick of it.[QUOTE]

    And I think there are some extremists on all sides. For example, I thought the guy trying to remove the crosses from the utah trooper memorials is wrong. If the officers were christians, those are appropriate memorials. If they were Buhdists, not so much.

    I am opposed to the under god on our money and in the pledge. You shouldn't have to profess a belief in someone elses diety to proclaim your patriotism, and having it on the money does not accurately represent the diverse beliefs our country has. The person who wrote the pledge was a preist and didn't see any reason to have it in there. It was added by congress. If the original didn't have it let's get original. Same with the money



    As for cutting off the student, I haven't heard anything about it, but things are seldom so cut and dried.
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  • Avatar of jsha06

    jsha06

    [56]Aug 15, 2006
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    frogman27 wrote:
    PIMagic37 wrote:


    Those who say there is no God have a lot of explaining to do, first of all about how we got here. Is biogenesis not a scientific law? Has anyone ever made life from nonliving material in a lab? No, they have not. Is the Bible not the most stunningly preserved piece of ancient literature ever? Is not the resurrection of Jesus Christ the most fantastic fact of history? The answers to these things will influence many of our behaviors when it comes to moral life.

    Why do we whine so much about our rights if it is not a fact that all of us were created ...

    ... equal.


    "Those who say there is no God have a lot of explaining to do, first of all about how we got here. Is biogenesis not a scientific law? Has anyone ever made life from nonliving material in a lab? No, they have not. Is the Bible not the most stunningly preserved piece of ancient literature ever? Is not the resurrection of Jesus Christ the most fantastic fact of history? The answers to these things will influence many of our behaviors when it comes to moral life."
    Actually, Biogenesis is simply the name for life produced by life (live birth, eggs, etc...) Abiogenesis is the scientific term for life produced in other ways.

    We've been around and doing science experiments with the building blocks of life for a few hundred years. It may have taken nature billions of years to produce life. Give us a chance.

    Regarding the bibles preservation, it was assembled by committee and passed on containing the beliefs the people who assembled it wanted it to pass on. Many books were considered, and some of the modern religions use bibles with different books than their christian counterparts. It's not a cut and dried,"look we found the bible" knd of thing

    There are serious reasons to question whether jesus even existed. There are no contemporary writings. There are only a couple mentions of jesus outside of biblical stories, and they are easily debunked. It's very possible jesus was a creation of peter to add credence to the church he was forming.

    You have a vision of your saviour that makes him out to be like you. White, anglo and with your beliefs and values, although you believe you got them from him. The real truth is that if there was a jesus he was much more like an imam in iraq or iran than like the image you have of him. He would have come from a culture much like theirs. You complained about taking messages out of context. Thats exactly what you do when you read the bible and try to apply it to modern day America. Look at the audiance it was really written for.
    whoa!! u are making some very absurd comments there. To even argue that jesus never existed is ignoring history completely! jesus was god in the form of man and he did live based on the bible and other non biblical findings. you need to check up on ur gospels of matthew mark luke and john to see plain and simple that jesus did live! why r u throwing out comments to make arguments that r just simply ridiculous ? lol we have the same beliefs and valus as jesus becuz we believe in him and follow his teachings, ur arguments are very old and i think you need to do your homework a whole lot more than what you have or have not (should i say). End of discussion
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  • Avatar of Nurol

    Nurol

    [57]Aug 16, 2006
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    How dare you. You are the reason why some atheists hate Christians. You're behaving in a terrible manner, and aren't acting a way a person trying to have a civil debate should. I also disagree with your views, but this is another issue altogether.

    Abortion: The turkey you ate for Thanksgiving did more than a fetus.

    Proof in God: Mind sharing?

    Homosexuality: This is the same thing as racism, or prejudice against religion, etc. End of story.

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  • Avatar of frogman27

    frogman27

    [58]Aug 17, 2006
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    jsha06 wrote:
    frogman27 wrote:
    PIMagic37 wrote:


    Those who say there is no God have a lot of explaining to do, first of all about how we got here. Is biogenesis not a scientific law? Has anyone ever made life from nonliving material in a lab? No, they have not. Is the Bible not the most stunningly preserved piece of ancient literature ever? Is not the resurrection of Jesus Christ the most fantastic fact of history? The answers to these things will influence many of our behaviors when it comes to moral life.

    Why do we whine so much about our rights if it is not a fact that all of us were created ...

    ... equal.


    "Those who say there is no God have a lot of explaining to do, first of all about how we got here. Is biogenesis not a scientific law? Has anyone ever made life from nonliving material in a lab? No, they have not. Is the Bible not the most stunningly preserved piece of ancient literature ever? Is not the resurrection of Jesus Christ the most fantastic fact of history? The answers to these things will influence many of our behaviors when it comes to moral life."
    Actually, Biogenesis is simply the name for life produced by life (live birth, eggs, etc...) Abiogenesis is the scientific term for life produced in other ways.

    We've been around and doing science experiments with the building blocks of life for a few hundred years. It may have taken nature billions of years to produce life. Give us a chance.

    Regarding the bibles preservation, it was assembled by committee and passed on containing the beliefs the people who assembled it wanted it to pass on. Many books were considered, and some of the modern religions use bibles with different books than their christian counterparts. It's not a cut and dried,"look we found the bible" knd of thing

    There are serious reasons to question whether jesus even existed. There are no contemporary writings. There are only a couple mentions of jesus outside of biblical stories, and they are easily debunked. It's very possible jesus was a creation of peter to add credence to the church he was forming.

    You have a vision of your saviour that makes him out to be like you. White, anglo and with your beliefs and values, although you believe you got them from him. The real truth is that if there was a jesus he was much more like an imam in iraq or iran than like the image you have of him. He would have come from a culture much like theirs. You complained about taking messages out of context. Thats exactly what you do when you read the bible and try to apply it to modern day America. Look at the audiance it was really written for.
    whoa!! u are making some very absurd comments there. To even argue that jesus never existed is ignoring history completely! jesus was god in the form of man and he did live based on the bible and other non biblical findings. you need to check up on ur gospels of matthew mark luke and john to see plain and simple that jesus did live! why r u throwing out comments to make arguments that r just simply ridiculous ? lol we have the same beliefs and valus as jesus becuz we believe in him and follow his teachings, ur arguments are very old and i think you need to do your homework a whole lot more than what you have or have not (should i say). End of discussion


    I understand you believe in jesus. Doesn't make it true. Do you believe in invisible cats because there's one in through the looking glass? The bible is a book, and a pretty poor one at that. Unless you assign some profound value to it it's just a jumbled set of badly told stories.
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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [59]Aug 17, 2006
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    jsha06 wrote:
    You seem to be very pro concerning christian beliefs but yet still fall back on "then again i just cant believe that or prove that" maybe you'll find some answers you're looking for at an awsome website called allaboutgod.com it even says right there on the home page "The community for seekers, skeptics, or believers" so go explore and let me know if you've found answers you're looking for


    My friend, you must have missed the phrase that said, "beyond all doubt." Many people have doubts about God, but some are reasonable and many are not. I believe that the existence of God can be proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt.

    All the same, thanks for the link. One of my favorites is called www.christiananswers.net. Have a good day.
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  • Avatar of PIMagic37

    PIMagic37

    [60]Aug 17, 2006
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
    Edited on 08/17/2006 4:05pm
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