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The CW (ended 2007)

In an alternate Camden universe, what would you change?

  • Avatar of sallenj

    sallenj

    [1]May 11, 2009
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    Okay, in "Star Trek" they introduced the idea of an alternate universe, with the same people involved, but with different choices at key points. So, if there were an alternate 7th Heaven universe, and you could change one thing, what would it be? Would Lucy marry Jeremy? Would Mary wind up with Ben, so you had two sisters married to two brothers? What one thing would you change, if you could?

    I think one of my top things is that I would actually put Ruthe and Martin together, before he turned into a jerk, and before he ever met Sandy.

    And, please, people, let's not clutter up the thread with stuff like "I wish the twins had never been born" or "I wish Ruthie was dead." Seriously, let's just have some fun with it (Although, I could live with never having met T-Bone!).

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    monstermouse

    [2]May 11, 2009
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    I think I would of made Cecilia stay around and end up being with Simon, so that way he never would of met Rose or Sandy and they wouldn't of had that whole paternity thing with Aaron. Thats the only thing I can think of at the moment but I will post as I think of more things.
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    Horselover1

    [3]May 11, 2009
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    If I could change one thing, it would have been that Matt & Heather ended up together (married).

    I would have also loved to see Mary and Wilson end up together.
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    Jon_MW_14

    [4]May 12, 2009
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    I would change Simon running that kid over with his car because his character got too depressing.
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    sallenj

    [5]May 20, 2009
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    Jon_MW_14 wrote:
    I would change Simon running that kid over with his car because his character got too depressing.

    Yea, I know what you mean. His character just suddenly got dark and tragic after that. The other answers were interesting too. I'm not sure I would have put Mary with Wilson, though. I'm not a big fan of Wilson. I'd rather she was with Ben. And I agree that if Simon and Cecilia had stayed together, we might never have had to deal with Rose, Sandy, and Aaron. And they might have stayed together longer if it hadn't been for his wreck and killing that kid. So...

    Something I think would be interesting, not necessarily good, but interesting, would be if Lucy had actually married Jeremy, family and all, and then still tried to be a minister.

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    dool_girl

    [6]Jun 2, 2009
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    I would have Robbie stick around. I loved Robbie and was so sad when he left I also would have had Cecilia and Simon end up together for sure, to me they were perfect together.
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    EloiseBeloise

    [8]Nov 25, 2009
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    I like Carlos better than Wilson and Ben (although Wilson would be my second choice for Mary) and I would have made it so Mary and Carlos had a mild (or severe) seperation, rather than a divorce, so Mary would have never abandoned her son (I mean is that really the Mary we had grown to love?)

    I would have also made a spin-off series about life in NY for Matt, Sarah, Carlos, Mary, and the kids.

    I would have made Mary have a single daughter after Charlie. I'm not sure about Sarah.

    I would have made Peter and Cecillia come back.
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    alirk

    [9]Dec 1, 2009
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    I would have made Mary & Wilson end up together. I also would have incorporated Mary, Matt & Sarah more into the series in the later seasons. I thought they were good characters & it was a shame they almost disappeared from the show in the later seasons...
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    spritebeanie84

    [10]Dec 19, 2009
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    I would've made Lucy not marry Kevin. Mary and Carlos go through the same thing they went through on the show, but not have Mary abandon her son. 0_o I never would've brought Heather back all those times, it got boring early on, back in season what? 3? Yeah, that long ago.

    Simon, as someone else said, should've been more angsty and suicidal after hitting that kid. I'd thrown out that whole mess they put Simon through in season 9. Ruthie would be good suicidal as well, I was kinda expecting it in season 10 after Martin left, I was waiting to see cuts on her wrists or her pull out a razorblade.
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    sallenj

    [11]Dec 21, 2009
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    spritebeanie84 wrote:
    I would've made Lucy not marry Kevin. Mary and Carlos go through the same thing they went through on the show, but not have Mary abandon her son. 0_o I never would've brought Heather back all those times, it got boring early on, back in season what? 3? Yeah, that long ago. Simon, as someone else said, should've been more angsty and suicidal after hitting that kid. I'd thrown out that whole mess they put Simon through in season 9. Ruthie would be good suicidal as well, I was kinda expecting it in season 10 after Martin left, I was waiting to see cuts on her wrists or her pull out a razorblade.

    Okay, cool. I've got a couple of questions, though, and some quibbles. First, if Lucy didn't marry Kevin, then what? Would she have met some other guy who was better, or get back with one of her exes, or take a vow of celibacy (I mean, she couldn't become a nun or anything, since she's not Catholic.)? If not Kevin, then I would have liked to see her make it work with Mike Pearce, personally.

    I have to agree with you that Heather got a bit repetive, but if they weren't going to put she and Matt together for good, then what else were they going to do with her? I know she came back for the 10th Season finale, and only had a scene with Simon, but not with Matt, which was just weird.

    Finally, as far as suicidal Camdens, I think they did what they could with Simon. They did a pretty good job with Lucy earlier when her friend died in the car wreck that she was almost in. I don't see Ruthie suicidal, though--at least not over Martin. Ruthie's always struck me as a bit too cocky for that sort of drama. She thinks she's beating life at its own game, and it would take more than a bad breakup to push her to the edge. Maybe if Simon committed suicide, it might push her there, or if Eric died, but otherwise, I don't see it (I pick those two because I think they were the ones she felt most deeply for, so they would affect her more.) And if Ruthie were going to commit suicide, I don't think it would be some wimpy, slash her wrists with a razor blade nonsense. That's more Lucy, I think. Ruthie would get into a head on collision in her car or something, and get the job done right. (Not there is a right way to kill yourself. What I mean is, if Ruthie were going to, she would just do it be sure to get it done, with a minimum of drama.) Just my opinion.

    What I was really kind of looking for with this thread was not just what you would change, but how you think that change would affect the course of the series. For instance, if Mary hadn't married Carlos when she did, she still would have married somebody. It might have been Ben, or Wilson, or it might have been somebody else, but she would have gotten married, and I'm not sure it would have mattered much who, as far as the series went. On the other hand, if Lucy hadn't married Kevin, I'm not sure she would have married anybody. I don't think she would have given anybody new a chance at that point, and the only one of her exes who was even really an option was Mike Pearce. So, that would have changed her life--and the series--quite a bit.

    Anyway, that's my four cents.

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  • Avatar of snake63

    snake63

    [12]Dec 30, 2009
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    Thats easy no Sam and David. They were as useless as Alex and Nicky in Full House.
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  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [13]Jan 2, 2010
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    snake63 wrote:
    Thats easy no Sam and David. They were as useless as Alex and Nicky in Full House.

    Lol!

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    archangelwho

    [14]Mar 6, 2010
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    The way that they messed Simon up in the end. He should had ended up top of his class in college and on his way to the top.

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    ChzTVStarr16

    [15]Mar 20, 2010
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    I know there are a lot of "Marthie" fans, but in all honesty I couldn't stand Martin. His character kind of annoyed me, and he was definitely not a good replacement for Robbie. I would have had him move with his aunt to New York. Though I know the writers wanted to focus on foster children.



    Though I didn't like the idea of Robbie marrying into the Camden clan. Mary should have been stayed with Ben, in my opinion. Though I don't mind Carlos. Even though at the time I was happy about it, I would have had the series end after season 10. Season 11 was just - pointless. I love 7th Heaven, and I wanted more and was ecstatic when they announced another season. Looking back though, Season 10 should have just been it. Season 10 just left a lot more "open" for FanFictions. I wouldn't have had Lucy miscarry, and I definitely wouldn't have had the whole "RV" thing.



    Now, I haven't even seen all of Season 11. It started annoying me, so I quit watching it. Once it's on Hallmark again I'll make a final judgment. Oh, and I just remembered...ROSE. Ugh! I couldn't stand her. I don't really mind how they messed up Simon, they couldn't have a Matt repeat. Matt was top of his class, they couldn't have Simon follow in his footsteps. He should have never met Rose. As for the subject of Heather, I agree, I would have never brought her back in the picture. If any of Matt's old girlfriends should have come back it should have been Shana.



    I don't see Ruthie suicidal though... not over Martin.

    Edited on 09/26/2010 2:08pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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    sallenj

    [16]Jun 26, 2010
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    ChzTVStarr16 wrote:


    I know there are a lot of "Marthie" fans, but in all honesty I couldn't stand Martin. His character kind of annoyed me, and he was definitely not a good replacement for Robbie. I would have had him move with his aunt to New York. Though I know the writers wanted to focus on foster children.



    Though I didn't like the idea of Robbie marrying into the Camden clan. Mary should have been stayed with Ben, in my opinion. Though I don't mind Carlos. Even though at the time I was happy about it, I would have had the series end after season 10. Season 11 was just - pointless. I love 7th Heaven, and I wanted more and was ecstatic when they announced another season. Looking back though, Season 10 should have just been it. Season 10 just left a lot more "open" for FanFictions. I wouldn't have had Lucy miscarry, and I definitely wouldn't have had the whole "RV" thing.



    Now, I haven't even seen all of Season 11. It started annoying me, so I quit watching it. Once it's on Hallmark again I'll make a final judgment. Oh, and I just remembered...ROSE. Ugh! I couldn't stand her. I don't really mind how they messed up Simon, they couldn't have a Matt repeat. Matt was top of his class, they couldn't have Simon follow in his footsteps. He should have never met Rose. As for the subject of Heather, I agree, I would have never brought her back in the picture. If any of Matt's old girlfriends should have come back it should have been Shawna.



    I don't see Ruthie suicidal though... not over Martin.



    Okay, this is getting scary. I disagree with you over Martin and Ruthie. I think they would have been one of those cool long term builds where they are SO right for each other...but anyway.



    Here's what's scary:


    Robbie/Mary/Ben--agree.


    Ending the series after Season 10--agree


    No Lucy miscarriage/RV--agree


    Rose/ugh--agree


    Simon not following Matt's example--agree


    Heather returning, bad/Shana returning, good--agree


    And finally,


    Ruthie not being suicidal--at least over Martin... Agree.



    See what I mean? Isn't that scary? What are the odds?

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    oreo_cookie5m

    [17]Dec 30, 2011
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    Well in season 11 I would have given Ruthie more to deal with. Ruthie was still a teenager and there were a ton of teenage issues they could have done with her that they've never done with the other kids yet they dumbed her character down and threw her into T-Bone land. When Mary and Lucy were teenagers they had their own problems and when it wasn't them one of their friends had a problem the family dealt with.


    The Mary bashing would have ended after Mary left the show with Carlos. There would be no Mary signing away custody of Charles and divorcing Carlos. That 3 people having twins thing wouldn't have happened so that way Mary could have had scenes with the family in the season 10 finale that wasn't just a daydream or a phone call. Once she left she'd get her life together off screen and everybody would be proud of how far she's come.


    My biggest issue with this show is all the major storylines take place off screen. Simon's car accident, Mary signing away custody, Lucy's miscarriage for example. It kind of takes away the emotional impact when we don't get to see it.

    Edited on 12/30/2011 3:04am
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  • Avatar of sallenj

    sallenj

    [18]Dec 30, 2011
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    oreo_cookie5m wrote:


    Well in season 11 I would have given Ruthie more to deal with. Ruthie was still a teenager and there were a ton of teenage issues they could have done with her that they've never done with the other kids yet they dumbed her character down and threw her into T-Bone land. When Mary and Lucy were teenagers they had their own problems and when it wasn't them one of their friends had a problem the family dealt with.


    The Mary bashing would have ended after Mary left the show with Carlos. There would be no Mary signing away custody of Charles and divorcing Carlos. That 3 people having twins thing wouldn't have happened so that way Mary could have had scenes with the family in the season 10 finale that wasn't just a daydream or a phone call. Once she left she'd get her life together off screen and everybody would be proud of how far she's come.


    My biggest issue with this show is all the major storylines take place off screen. Simon's car accident, Mary signing away custody, Lucy's miscarriage for example. It kind of takes away the emotional impact when we don't get to see it.



    I know what you mean. We also didn't get to see Grandma Jenny's funeral, or the birth of either Matt or Mary's twins, the death of Lucy's friends in that car wreck, Simon and Rose calling off their wedding, or Ruthie and Martin's first kiss. On the other hand, we did get to see plenty of dramatic moments:Mary getting hit by a car, the birth of Sam and David, Matt and Sarah's wedding (the second one anyway), Kevin and Lucy's proposal, Eric's heart attack, Eric getting shot. So, it wasn't all one sided.



    Still, I do understand what you're saying. Sometimes I think the offscreen/onscreen balance is hard to get right. After all, they can't show everything, right?

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    ChipsTheButler

    [19]Feb 16, 2012
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    Two words:

    More. Explosions.
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  • Avatar of sallenj

    sallenj

    [20]Feb 19, 2012
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    ChipsTheButler wrote:
    Two words: More. Explosions.



    Uh, Chips, I think you might have the wrong show. THis is not CSI, or NCIS, or even Law and Order. It's a family show, and it's about relationships and life. As I said before, we get several dramatic moments (Eric getting shot is a pretty intense one.), but that isn't what the show is about. In fact, the episode where Eric gets shot, "Johnny Get Your Gun", gives a pretty good explanation as to why there weren't more explosions on the show. It's because there is so much of that sort of thing on tv, movies, and entertainment today, that after awhile, folks get numb to it. And gunshots and explosions should always be important, not just something that's thrown in to make the plot go, or to liven things up because the material is otherwise boring.


    If that's what you're after, there are plenty of shows out there that will indulge you. It doesn't have to be 7th Heaven.

    Edited on 02/19/2012 9:28am
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