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CBS (ended 1979)

Archie's behavior

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    flamehots

    [1]Nov 6, 2005
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    Archie Bunker was a character that started out as one of the bigest bigots and racist person on television. As the series progressed, Archie seemed to become less racist and more open-minded up to the point of kissing Sammy Davis Jr. Do you think it was a good change, to make Archie more human-like, or just stick with what that they had started?
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    wheelrchair

    [2]Nov 6, 2005
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    Archie and Mike's heated debates is what made the show.
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    twilly41

    [3]Nov 17, 2005
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    Just to set the record straight, it was Sammy Davis, Jr., who kissed Archie and not the other way around. Anyway, I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think that the word "behavior" would fit - I think it was more his tolerance level. Archie was "Archie" throughout the entire series, without a doubt, but he was more willing, by the end of the series, to accept the fact that the world around him was changing (or had changed and he missed the boat).

    This was the basis of the series - what can Mike, Gloria and Edith (let alone the entire cast of characters) do to make Archie realize that the world is a complicated place over which we have very little control (speaking generally, of course) ... Archie, although still quite thickheaded in the later episodes, definitely had a softer side by then. Hence, I believe that he had simply become a bit more tolerant by then.

    When the series first began, Archie was concerned with putting down people who did not fit his way of thinking and living. As the series progressed, we see a tender version of Archie as he "baptizes" Joey (note that he did not ruffle a feather with anyone, as he would have earlier in the show - he kept this act to himself) and watches Stephanie grow up. Archie was no longer the boorish pighead we loved to hate, but was more so a protector of those he loved so much, that we were more or less guilted into loving him.
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    flamehots

    [4]Nov 19, 2005
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    Archie kissed Sammy Davis Jr. in Archie Bunker's Place. Anyway, I'm glad someone really understood what I tried to say.
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    twilly41

    [5]Nov 21, 2005
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    I stand corrected! I was thinking that you were writing about Sammy's visit to pick up his briefcase in 1972, when Sammy kissed Archie. I never realized that he visited again in 1980 on "Archie Bunker's Place" and Archie indeed kissed him back. Thanks for the info! (Honestly, I've only seen a few episodes of "Archie Bunker's Place," as it's been difficult to catch them if they're on ... am I crazy, or are some of the reruns of it aired under the AITF title??)
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    scooby_92

    [6]Dec 14, 2005
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    He wouldn't have been Archie if he didn't behave the way he did.
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    midnitewriter

    [7]Dec 17, 2005
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    twilly41 wrote:
    I stand corrected! I was thinking that you were writing about Sammy's visit to pick up his briefcase in 1972, when Sammy kissed Archie. I never realized that he visited again in 1980 on "Archie Bunker's Place" and Archie indeed kissed him back. Thanks for the info! (Honestly, I've only seen a few episodes of "Archie Bunker's Place," as it's been difficult to catch them if they're on ... am I crazy, or are some of the reruns of it aired under the AITF title??)

    I haven't seen Archie's Place shows under the AITF title. TVLand had ran through them a couple of years ago and I caught a few then. It would be cool if TVLand would air them after the current AITF run ends, in its time slot. Archie Bunker's Place wasn't that great, from the ones that I saw, but from the standpoint of showing the entire thread of the series, it would probably be interesting.
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    port5170

    [8]Dec 18, 2005
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    Him accepting the little Jewish girl who was ediths neice or whatever, that came to live with them and giving her a Star of David necklace when he found out.. was touching
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    wheelrchair

    [9]Dec 30, 2005
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    When Srephanie was introduced that was when Archie started to change his behavior.
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    port5170

    [10]Jan 2, 2006
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    Yes he loved a little Jewish girl.. and he started to change .. he questioned all the stuff from before.. I love this show and it is sad this and many other classics do not have more posters
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    twilly41

    [11]Jan 3, 2006
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    port5170 wrote:
    Yes he loved a little Jewish girl.. and he started to change .. he questioned all the stuff from before.. I love this show and it is sad this and many other classics do not have more posters


    I think he started to change before that: when Mike and Gloria moved to California (just before Stephanie arrived) ... what a tearful episode that was ... and I agree, more people need to post when it comes to GOOD classic television!
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    port5170

    [12]Feb 6, 2006
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    I wish that they would.. makes me sad people don't remember the classics
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    SupermanNYC

    [13]Apr 12, 2006
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    I have to agree with you, the good shows and people are forgetting all about them. oh and I agree, Archie started to change right before Stephine came.
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    geoellis2

    [14]May 20, 2006
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    Archie had so many different levels to his personality. He would rant about minorities, but under that he was really a fair person. The complexity and compassion shown by his genuine love for Gloria and later Stephanie was one of the great traits, showing real depth of character.

    I would like to see Archie Bunker's Place, too, simply because I haven't seen them all.

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    dramafreezone

    [15]May 23, 2006
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    I suppose times changed and they couldn't get away with what they had in the beginning.  Oddly enough I think that Meathead was just as closed minded as Archie, but seeing as he was considered be be on the side of supposed morality, most peole didn't see this.  There are bigots on both sides of that fence.

    I only watch this show now to see Edith, as soon as Archie and Meathead start screaming at each other like 2nd graders, I change the channel real fast.

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    geoellis2

    [16]May 27, 2006
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    dramafreezone wrote:

    I suppose times changed and they couldn't get away with what they had in the beginning.  Oddly enough I think that Meathead was just as closed minded as Archie, but seeing as he was considered be be on the side of supposed morality, most peole didn't see this.  There are bigots on both sides of that fence.

    It is interesting that when we watch it now, Mike's supposed compassion for morality and fair-mindedness has not aged well. He seems more bigoted than Archie in some ways, with far less humor.

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    ThirdWatchLover

    [17]Jun 28, 2006
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    I like him from how he started out, he was very funny.
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    millerem99

    [18]Jul 26, 2007
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    dramafreezone wrote:

    I suppose times changed and they couldn't get away with what they had in the beginning.Oddly enough I think that Meathead was just as closed minded as Archie, but seeing as he was considered be be on the side of supposed morality, most peole didn't see this. There are bigots on both sides of that fence.

    I only watch this show now to see Edith, as soon as Archie and Meathead start screaming at each other like 2nd graders, I change the channel real fast.

    That is a very good point, something my father often pointed out to me. My dad's ideas are more left than mine, so we had a role reversal in our house of meathead and Archie, with the 20-something daughter being more conservative than her father. But my dad always was irked by Mike's hypocrisy.

    I think the fact that Archie evolved from the beginning is very typical of human nature when it has a thread of decency, which Archie did. I also believe that what made Archie's character palatable is that he even though he was a chauvinist, he was incredibly devoted to Edith, and much more in love with her than he even realized. The few times that she stood up to him, she got her way in the end. He also earnestly believed some of the crazy stuff he said because- as we find out in the one episode when he and Meathead get locked in the storage closet and Archie gets drunk - his father steered him that way, and who doesn't want to believe that your dad (provider, teacher,and hero) could possibly be wrong?

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    cherrytree34

    [19]Aug 1, 2007
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    If Archie hadn't started out the way he did, the softer side would never have been appreciated. The audience had to see the bigot first in order to really understand the transformation. Also, without Archie and Mike both having their hard line approaches, the show would not have been nearly so dynamic. I wish more people were into the classics, too. They just don't make TV like they used to. Now, if they do put on a good show it ends up getting cancelled (like Arrested Development) or the writers run out of material and it ends up only a few steps shy of a soft porn flick. It's revolting and insulting.

    They should fire all the writers for the new shows and just play classic television all day.
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    revbucky

    [20]Jul 14, 2008
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    People do change over the years....Archie Bunker included.
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