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Official Discussion Thread: Rubber Man (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Tammy-ramone

    Tammy-ramone

    [21]Nov 25, 2011
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    I was a little off put by Nora this episode, but there are still lots of facts we don't know about the rules of the realm of the dead, for all we know there might be times when the awareness of what they are comes and goes. They all have tragic and sad backgrounds, so maybe sometimes they get stuck in the pain (past) relieving the memories.


    As for Tate's talk with Hayden in the basement I was pretty sure they were talking about him having to go up and rape Vivian, like he did before. His behaviour this ep and the revelation that he is the "rubber man" lead me to think that he has multiple personalities, (whether it's a side effect of being dead or if the House brought it out while he was alive I don't know) and that the House nurtures the psychotic side and in turn gets to use him as it's puppet. His whole demeanour this episode was vastly different from the past ones, at least for me his character was almost unrecognizable, I just can reconcile his actions and behaviour with what I've seen from him in the past. And we've seen this kind of dual thing several times before, Bloody Tate and Tate the patient, Normal Tate and Skull makeup Tate, and in this ep we had the two facial expressions on the mirror at the beginning. Besides he always seems to fluctuate between being kind of childish and being dark and eerie.


    I don't think Moira helping out Tate was out of character or weird. She is very self-absorbed and she was protecting her own interests. I mean, Tate had already set to kill Chad and Pat, he had made himself know… so as she said, a police investigation where they would be looking out for a murdered would've been potentially dangerous for them, for the House and all it's secrets.


    Did Violet lose her virginity to Tate or were they talking about the fist time she cut herself? I'm kinda lost on this one.


    Is there a pattern that repeats itself with the couples in the house? One sleepwalks and is driven to play out his/hers darker needs and wants while the other is driven to madness? I could see it as a mirror to Charles and Nora's story. He got lost in his obsession with experimenting and she went crazy with grief and committed murder-suicide. Then we have Hugo cheating on Constance and Moira being a slut, and Constance going crazy and killing them both. And we have Larry having an affair with Constance and his wife going crazy and setting herself and her daughters on fire. Pat seemed driven to the S&M chat room "cheating" and Chad said he felt like he was going crazy. What keeps on bothering me are the nurses murder, they don't seem to fit into any theories whatsoever.

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  • Avatar of SweetMissJaye

    SweetMissJaye

    [22]Nov 25, 2011
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    JoshSutton wrote:
    I'm not a massive fan of the answers in this episode, i'm thinking maybe the writers started off not knowing what they were doing within the pilot and then gave us these answers so that it would make some sort of sense... Tate having a thing for Nora or whatever... i don't like it.


    I'm getting a similar feeling. It seems like the writers didn't know quite what they were doing. It's almost as if they were making this stuff up as they went along. It doesn't feel like certain aspects were thought of ahead of time. As if, at the last minute, they decided to make Tate the Rubber Man, and all of a sudden make Nora not know she's a ghost.

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  • Avatar of sweet

    sweet

    [23]Nov 25, 2011
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    WTF that did happen??


    Tate is a Rubber Man.... that fright @_@'


    I can't belive...


    Me too, prefer go to the hopital, as stay in this house... is the better choice...


    She just can't go crazy...She need improve and go for other place.


    The traitor the Violet, gonna enjoy staying there with the ghosts that she love .



    I very liked this episode, but i'm completely frustrated with the new fates...


    I'll thinking week all, about the last segment....


    I'll wait the next episode anxious...



    P.S. After know more about what Tate does, i'm devasted ....


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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [24]Nov 25, 2011
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    I still think the whole conversation in the basement is about Violet and that the only reason Tate attacks Vivien as part of Hayden's plan to get her sent to the loony bin is so that she can't take Violet away from the house before he can work himself up to killing her. I think that's what Tate is trying to work himself up to in the basement. Vivien means nothing to him. So he wouldn't have to work himself up to attacking her. Tate kills people he likes (or who threaten the people he likes, as was the case with the home invaders). I think his attack on Vivien had nothing to do with Hayden but literally that Vivien was threatening to take Violet (someone he loves) away. I think he also summoned the ghosts of the home invaders to the car when Vivien first tried to leave because he was afraid he was going to lose Violet.

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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [25]Nov 27, 2011
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    Tammy-ramone wrote:


    Did Violet lose her virginity to Tate or were they talking about the fist time she cut herself? I'm kinda lost on this one.



    I just re-watched the episode. I'm confused about this scene now, too. First of all, Violet is fully clothed. It may or may not mean anything, but it seemed off, especially since Tate was not clothed. So did he actually have sex with Violet or was this another moment of "Tate reality", which we all know doesn't necessarily match up with actual reality? Or maybe even represents a moment at which Violet has split with reality so that we're seeing that what's happening with her is mirroring what happened with Tate? Secondly, there is a part, specifically when Violet is talking about Tate really being there, when the camera angle goes weird and out of focus--almost like you're seeing a reflection of Violet and Tate rather than an actual image of Violet and Tate. What mystifies me about it is that I'm not sure whose perspective I'm seeing. So I don't know how to interpret it. See first point above about Violet maybe splitting with reality. Third, how strange is it that Tate is telling Violet that she can't tell anyone what they know because they'll lock her up and then Violet is pretty much the one who seals the deal for Vivien to be locked up?

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  • Avatar of mattbiale

    mattbiale

    [26]Nov 27, 2011
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    the whole idea of Tate being Rubberman makes no sense at all. Tate and Rubberman were both main characters, now they are the same person? which means there is no Rubberman, never was, its always been Tate. why does Tate want to get a baby for Nora? he killed people at his school who were nice to him because he finds the world disgusting, and now he wants to bring more people into that very same world? i dont know, i really hope the writers are going somewhere with this plot and not just making it up as they go along.
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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [27]Nov 27, 2011
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    I'm curious about what led Tate to the Rubber Man costume to begin with. Why did he feel compelled to take on that persona? The timeline was, again, twisted all around in the Rubber Man episode. We see him have sex with Vivien first but his first act as Rubber Man was actually when he killed Chad and Patrick. And why does he keep returning to the Rubber Man suit? He actually took it out of the garbage (Did anyone else notice that when he does that, he's technically outside the grounds of the house? The gate is behind him. Another continuity issue?) Is the suit just another way for him not to have to face down the bad things he does by keeping himself anonymous? Or is there some meaning behind the whole S&M/sexual aspect of the suit?

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  • Avatar of MsAnalytical

    MsAnalytical

    [28]Nov 27, 2011
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    HeadlinesRCrazy wrote:


    I'm curious about what led Tate to the Rubber Man costume to begin with. Why did he feel compelled to take on that persona? The timeline was, again, twisted all around in the Rubber Man episode. We see him have sex with Vivien first but his first act as Rubber Man was actually when he killed Chad and Patrick. And why does he keep returning to the Rubber Man suit? He actually took it out of the garbage (Did anyone else notice that when he does that, he's technically outside the grounds of the house? The gate is behind him. Another continuity issue?) Is the suit just another way for him not to have to face down the bad things he does by keeping himself anonymous? Or is there some meaning behind the whole S&M/sexual aspect of the suit?



    Remember what the guy in the S&M shop said to Chad? That the suit dehumanized. (Wasn't that the phrase?) I think Tate takes that and either justifies or detaches himself from what he is doing. ????

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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [29]Nov 28, 2011
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    MsAnalytical wrote:


    HeadlinesRCrazy wrote:


    I'm curious about what led Tate to the Rubber Man costume to begin with. Why did he feel compelled to take on that persona? The timeline was, again, twisted all around in the Rubber Man episode. We see him have sex with Vivien first but his first act as Rubber Man was actually when he killed Chad and Patrick. And why does he keep returning to the Rubber Man suit? He actually took it out of the garbage (Did anyone else notice that when he does that, he's technically outside the grounds of the house? The gate is behind him. Another continuity issue?) Is the suit just another way for him not to have to face down the bad things he does by keeping himself anonymous? Or is there some meaning behind the whole S&M/sexual aspect of the suit?



    Remember what the guy in the S&M shop said to Chad? That the suit dehumanized. (Wasn't that the phrase?) I think Tate takes that and either justifies or detaches himself from what he is doing. ????



    That's a sound theory, I think. I'll buy that. It would also fit nicely with the makeup Tate wears when he goes into the school in the dream he tells Ben about in the first episode. I wonder if Tate seeing his bloody self behind Ben is a brief moment of clarity about being dead, in that case. I'm not sure about the previews for this week's episode. I really hope they're not going to go all religious on us. The whole good versus evil theme isso tired. I like the exploration ofgray areas from multiple angles much better. Of course, this show hasn't known any sacred cows yet, so maybe they're going to push their limits just a little bit moreby putting their own little twisted twist on that sensitive social taboo as well.

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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [30]Nov 28, 2011
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    SweetMissJaye wrote:


    JoshSutton wrote:
    I'm not a massive fan of the answers in this episode, i'm thinking maybe the writers started off not knowing what they were doing within the pilot and then gave us these answers so that it would make some sort of sense... Tate having a thing for Nora or whatever... i don't like it.


    I'm getting a similar feeling. It seems like the writers didn't know quite what they were doing. It's almost as if they were making this stuff up as they went along. It doesn't feel like certain aspects were thought of ahead of time. As if, at the last minute, they decided to make Tate the Rubber Man, and all of a sudden make Nora not know she's a ghost.



    I agree that there are some continuity issues with this show. However, the part about Nora not knowing she's a ghost is actually consistent with how she's been portrayed from the beginning. Remember when she came to tour the house and was horrified by the kitchen gadgets?What's inconsistent with both her and Tate not knowing they're ghosts is thatNora has some awareness that something is "off" about her surroundings and that someone else is living in her house, but Tate seems completely oblivious to the fact that his girlfriend and her family are living in the same house that he supposedly does. I actually find Nora's reaction the much more believable of the two. As the show goes on, it's getting more and more difficult for me to really buy that Tate is unaware of being a ghost. He has to have at least some awareness of his condition in order to be able to manipulate the spirits of the house to the level that he seems to be able to. I'm kind of hoping that next week's preview is an indication that maybe Constance will be so angry with her son for making little demon babies with Vivien that she'll finally snap and tell him the truth about himself so we won't have to suffer through anymore "I don't know I'm dead" glitches.

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  • Avatar of Faithin1

    Faithin1

    [31]Nov 28, 2011
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    Gera777 wrote:


    I have some question about the episode to discuss!


    1. Who was the man that put an arm on Nora's shoulder in the beginning of the episode? That wasn't Tate because he lived after Nora's death.


    2. Why did Tate lied Violet about that ghost can't really hurt her? Or maybe he is the one who can actually kill in the house?


    3. If Nora don't remember that she's dead, how she could visit to the house as possible buyer?


    4. If Tate was the first killer in the house what has driven him crazy?


    5. Since Vivien will have twins and Tate is a father. Is it possible that Tate's twin will appear? Not to mention that he wore the same sweater as one of the killed twins.


    6. Why didn't Violet told the truth? Does Tate has such influence on her? Or maybe she's a ghost now too.


    7. Why Tate cares so much about Nora? He killed gays and screwed Vivien only to make it possible for her to have child.



    1) maybe it was still Tate and that was Nora's ghost?


    2) maybe Violet is dead and ghosts can't hurt other ghosts.


    3) I don't know that she did, Vivien assumed she was a buyer, I don't believe that she said anything.


    4) The doctor and killer baby were in the house before Tate. And Nora killed her husband and baby. And I think the mutant baby kills most.


    5) This makes sense. I also think that one of the babies could be Ben's and human, and the other is mutant haunted ghost baby.


    6) I think because Tate said that she couldn't tell anyone about the ghosts, and she wants to stay with Tate, and doesn't want other stuff disrupting her un-dead life.


    7) This is an excellent question, I can't really figure it all out either. Those are just my possible answers. They could all be wrong.

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  • Avatar of Faithin1

    Faithin1

    [32]Nov 28, 2011
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    MsAnalytical wrote:


    HeadlinesRCrazy wrote:


    My mind is really going nuts over Hayden's comment in the basement about the "bitch" in "there" being "really strong"...So the crazy infant in the basement is a girl/woman? Who?



    Can't "talk" much today (Thanksgiving!) but remember that the Infantata has the heart of a woman. Just sayin'



    Excellent point. I had forgotten that. I like the answer.

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  • Avatar of zeynepdefne

    zeynepdefne

    [33]Nov 28, 2011
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    1-I remember that Constance have 4 children and so far we met3 of them. 4 th maybe the twin of Tate so there could be 2 Tates afterall.a bad one and a good one


    2- Violate could be having relation with two of them and does not know it yet.


    3- The good Tate could be the one having conversation with Hayden since she told he has been writing poem to Violate. and maybe the one who supposed to tell the Violate she is dead.


    4-Violate could be dead and the whole sex thing with Tate have been happed because she is dead since ghost can have relations with each other. ( Tate could not have sex when the first time Violate wanted it at the Beach since she is alive at the time??? )


    5- However how can get Viviene preagnant form Tate if the above is true????


    6- Maybe Tate is not dead maybe he survived from the suicide .they did not give the whole ending at the episode we just saw he shot himself.Maybe he could see the ghost as Violete does.So that makes more sense rather being dead and having some power that set him aside from the other ghosts?


    7- Nora told constance that if they dig the yard and find the bones of her than she could be free and constance goes to jail.Is that mean they have to find the bones of deads in order to get rid of them completly.


    8-there are lots of things in the show that does not make sense and it is very normal that everybody is confused at some point since the writers does not know what is gonna happen in the next episodes either they told in many shows that it is an open ended show and they dont know what they are gonna write until the last minute ,they play by ears I guess which is horrible....


    9- there is gonna be next episode though, I read somewhere that the next episode is about a new family which meansBen's familyis gonna be dead or leaving the house.


    10- every women in the house wants babies even Constance she is giving raw brain toe vivian maybe she wants a perfect child since all of hers deformed.

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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [34]Nov 28, 2011
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    zeynepdefne wrote:


    6- Maybe Tate is not dead maybe he survived from the suicide .they did not give the whole ending at the episode we just saw he shot himself.Maybe he could see the ghost as Violete does.So that makes more sense rather being dead and having some power that set him aside from the other ghosts?


    Huh???? Tate didn't shoot himself. He was taken out by a swat team after he took out 15 of his classmates.


    7- Nora told constance that if they dig the yard and find the bones of her than she could be free and constance goes to jail.Is that mean they have to find the bones of deads in order to get rid of them completly.


    That was actually Moira not Nora.


    9- there is gonna be next episode though, I read somewhere that the next episode is about a new family which meansBen's familyis gonna be dead or leaving the house.


    You mean the next season, not episode. The makers of the show have said that the original plan was to have a different family each season but that they have since modified that plan somewhat. What that means exactly, I don't know.




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    qtwanderer

    [35]Nov 29, 2011
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    So many posts in this thread that I would like to quote and answer specifically but alas, thats way too time consuming.


    I am alittle confused as others have said with Nora not knowing about her death. When she is first introduced I could believe that, because she knocked on the door for permission to enter the house and of her reaction to the kitchen and technology. But it is hard to believe after she helped Ben.


    Tate and the suit could make sense like someone said because he seems to hide behind a "disguise" when he "turns bad", as we saw when he dressed like a skull-man to shoot the school. I was wondering when Moira would try and give some help since she seems like the nicer of some of the ghosts in the house. She seems to just want freedom, but how she would get that after someone finds her body, as she thinks, is questionable. Maybe she just needs justice to get free (which most of the other ghosts can't get)or maybe she just wants to see Constance go to jail.


    Glad we get to see a new ghost (Constance's murdered husband) but I thought that was who the Rubber Man was. Him or the good doctor So now we wait to see the doctor cause that would be all the ghost and they have yet to show him.


    I can't see how Violet and Tate having sex is a dream of some sort or how Violet could be dead. We know ghost can have sex because before this episode we knew the Rubber Man was not a person and had sex with Viv. And Violet could easily dodge her parent(s) during the day. She, as Tate said is more invovled with the house now which is why she sees so much more. And Tate has been shown to be able to go outside the house perimeters as seen in one of the episodes before the Halloween eps, when he was talking with Ben.


    Atleast we know what the thing in the basement is, which can only (I might regret saying only in the future ) be Nora's baby grown up, but how is it alive still? She never killed it, she said she tried- thats not the exact phrase but she didn't kill it. So now a question that everyone asks is who is Constance's other kid? I can see how Tate would have a twin but as someone else said, the cops might've asked for him too, which makes believing Tate has multiple personalities more plausible. Then again Viv is having twins I'm also interested in this sleep walking habit that a couple of the characters have experienced.

    Edited on 11/29/2011 3:10pm
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    cawylie

    [36]Nov 29, 2011
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    There's too many fly-away questions in this thread but I will answer two:


    At the beginning of the episode, it IS Tate who speaks to and touches Nora. It doesn't matter if the event happened when Chad & Patrick lived there (which I think was when that scene was) or right before Ben came downstairs to play with the stove. It is Tate.


    The house will not allow Vivien to be gone for long. Even though Tate, the product of the house, was allowed to impregnate her, Vivien has pregnancy trouble whenever she leaves the house (unless the house only wants her babies). Still if it does just want her babies, why allow her to be given out-of-the-house psych treatment?

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    cawylie

    [37]Nov 29, 2011
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    And I also preferred the first half of this episode to the second half. I warmed up to Hayden and her expository scene (after not liking her previous installments) but got cold again at her childish behavior (she's a PSYCH student???). I'm also glad that Moira became Vivien's sounding board (was surprised she didn't suggest killing Ben) and I hope that Nora becomes a savior/heroine too.

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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [38]Nov 29, 2011
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    qtwanderer wrote:


    I am alittle confused as others have said with Nora not knowing about her death. When she is first introduced I could believe that, because she knocked on the door for permission to enter the house and of her reaction to the kitchen and technology. But it is hard to believe after she helped Ben.


    I posted this in another forum already, but I don't think I posted it here. I think the deal with Nora's ghost is that she projects herself onto the current owners of the house. She's so attached to the house and the fact that it's her house that when we see her confused and upset, those are moments of lucidity when she realizes something is not right. But when she is angry or frustrated about how her dream house has been turned into such a miserable place, she projects her anger and frustration onto the current owners. Thus, her speech to Ben in the basement about not having another failure in the house.


    I can't see how Violet and Tate having sex is a dream of some sort or how Violet could be dead. We know ghost can have sex because before this episode we knew the Rubber Man was not a person and had sex with Viv. And Violet could easily dodge her parent(s) during the day. She, as Tate said is more invovled with the house now which is why she sees so much more. And Tate has been shown to be able to go outside the house perimeters as seen in one of the episodes before the Halloween eps, when he was talking with Ben.


    I have been so back and forth about this. At first I thought that they unquestionably did. Then I thought maybe they didn't. After more revisits to previous episodes as well as this one, I've returned to the idea that they did. But I'm not going to get into the new theory now. Suffice it to say that I agree that Violet is not dead. I think the whole "evolved" thing has to do with the fact that she now knows the truth about Tate and, therefore, knows that there are ghosts in the house. So they're showing themselves to her. I think Tate really loves her. I think the "deed" was the result of a very emotional moment for Tate when he was forced to face down the fact that he could lose Violet and he has resolved that he'll do ANYTHING to make sure he doesn't.


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    christabel81

    [39]Nov 29, 2011
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    tate is so definitely having a twin bro, tat in love with the Lady of the House...

    damn i cant wait till next episode.
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    branwen_phoenix

    [40]Nov 30, 2011
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    Tate cant be a twin because they died younger than when Tate murdered those kids at school

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