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Official Discussion Thread: Smoldering Children (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Dec 5, 2011
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 12/7/11 episode "Smoldering Children" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
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  • Avatar of cawylie

    cawylie

    [2]Dec 7, 2011
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    I predict a showdown between Ben and Rubber Man!

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  • Avatar of mattgus

    mattgus

    [3]Dec 7, 2011
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    lets see---WOW and WOW---everything this series has done has been exceptional...writing,acting,execution----PERFECT.......
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    sleepflower

    [4]Dec 7, 2011
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    I particularly liked this episode, I'd say it's my second favorite, so far.

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    MauricioMaranto

    [5]Dec 7, 2011
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    I LOVED the reveal of Violet's fate, even though we all knew it, that scene was perfectly done
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    JoshSutton

    [6]Dec 8, 2011
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    I felt so sorry for Violet, that whole scene with Tate just shows what a sad, lost girl she is and will forever be, now. I'm wondering when her parents will find out? Speaking of which, well done to Viv for telling Ben she's not switching the loony bin for that loony house, she's safe for now or until she pops. I suspect that Violet will be the one to stop Tate in the end, it'll be tough but i think she'll be the hero.
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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [7]Dec 8, 2011
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    Even thought I was really on the "I don't think Violet is dead" bandwagon, I actually very much liked this episode. I thought it was well done. The scene in which Tate came up out of the crawl space was awesome and, honestly, the LAST thing I expected. It was also the "aha!" moment for me. I knew then that Tate was protecting Violet's body and that she was, in fact, dead. I was pretty happy to see that my theory about Tate not actually killing Ben but only intervening as Rubber Man to distract him from what's going on with Violet was spot on. As they say, half right. Beyond Tate and Violet, I think this episode gave us a lot of insight into several different characters, primarily Constance and Larry. I'm once again completely confused about how I'm supposed to feel about Constance and Tate. I can never figure out if I'm supposed to love or hate them. Just when I think I've figured it out, they flip flop, like tonight's episode...I guess no more until I've done a re-watch. But no time now.

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    zeynepdefne

    [8]Dec 8, 2011
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    Can somebody tell me why all of the family members see the ghost of the murder house? I am lost in here.I love the show by the way.I thought the only person sees the ghosts was Violet...because Tate told here some people are sensitive in an episode...Ben can see Violet and Tate and Hayden?Does that make him dead as well?But he can go inside and outside of the house...Confusedddddddddddddddddddd....
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  • Avatar of mattbiale

    mattbiale

    [9]Dec 8, 2011
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    Tate told Violet the ghosts are appearing to Violet because she was "more evolved". In reality it was because Violet was dead, in a way the other ghosts were introducing themselves to Violet. Most of the ghosts when interacting with other characters are doing it for a reason. I have to re-watch the episode where Violet commits suicide to see at what point Violet goes down into the basement and sees all the ghosts. It is all confusing.
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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [10]Dec 8, 2011
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    mattbiale wrote:
    I have to re-watch the episode where Violet commits suicide to see at what point Violet goes down into the basement and sees all the ghosts. It is all confusing.


    The order is this: She sees a shadowy Tate moving through the house. She goes to the basement. Sees the ghosts. Goes upstairs. Sees "I love you" written on the chalkboard. Pops the pills." I actually squeezed in a second viewing of this week's episode, even though I really had no business taking the time to do so. It occurred to me that I've been contemplating this episode for very different reasons than previous episodes. In previous episodes, the primary drive for contemplation was trying to sort out exactly what happened. It seems to me that in this episode, what "happened" was pretty straightforward. What I've been contemplating is the emotions that it evoked for me. Finally, I figured out that the moments between Violet and Tate when he shows her her body and then, afterward, in her room felt very intimate to me, despite an almost complete lack of any sort of romantic gestures (other than Tate hugging Violet). Yet, those moments, for me, somewhat superceded any of the sex we've seen on the show. I couldn't figure out why. It finally occurred to me...What could be more intimate than someone who was there with you when you took your last breath sharing that moment with you? It's creepy. That's for sure. But something about it is also very...I don't want to say "romantic" because that's not it...I guess the word I really do want is "intimate." That person has an insight into you that no one else will ever have because you only have one dying moment. Also, because she can't remember it, Violet has no choice but to blindly trust what Tate is telling her. Not that I think that's really pertinent to anything, necessarily. I just find it interesting that that feeling is what struck me the most about this week's episode.

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    blackmage8472

    [11]Dec 9, 2011
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    While both horrifying and tragic this episode had a strange sense of beauty at the end when Tate and Violet were playing cards.

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  • Avatar of MsAnalytical

    MsAnalytical

    [12]Dec 9, 2011
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    HeadlinesRCrazy wrote:


    It seems to me that in this episode, what "happened" was pretty straightforward. What I've been contemplating is the emotions that it evoked for me. Finally, I figured out that the moments between Violet and Tate when he shows her her body and then, afterward, in her room felt very intimate to me, despite an almost complete lack of any sort of romantic gestures (other than Tate hugging Violet). Yet, those moments, for me, somewhat superceded any of the sex we've seen on the show. I couldn't figure out why. It finally occurred to me...What could be more intimate than someone who was there with you when you took your last breath sharing that moment with you? It's creepy. That's for sure. But something about it is also very...I don't want to say "romantic" because that's not it...I guess the word I really do want is "intimate."



    I get what you are saying. When Tate said they were like Romeo and Juliet something clicked with me. We have continually gone back to the discussion of who we like and do not like, who are sympathetic characters, etc. While I thought Tate was creepy and Violet annoying at times I never lost all my sympathy for them and I finally realized why. They are Romeo and Juliet characters.


    If someone has not really studied the play they just think of the couple as stereotypically romantic and tragic, but the story is truly more about their families and their society and how they are lost within both. They are never seen as individuals, just as extensions of their parents' lives that are pulled and pushed about until they make a tragic bid for love and control of their own lives. In the end the parents left to realize the horror of their own actions.


    I think we are seeing that sort of "scene" playing out here.


    Constance is slipping for me. I am losing all empathy for Constance. Everything about her seems so selfish, even her love. It all has to be on her terms and under her control. Ugh.

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  • Avatar of MsAnalytical

    MsAnalytical

    [13]Dec 10, 2011
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    cawylie wrote:


    I predict a showdown between Ben and Rubber Man!



    I should not even dare after the points that I have missed, but what do you think for the final two episodes? I think Ben and Vivien have to find out she is dead and they probably escape with one of the babies and the house keeps the other. ???

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  • Avatar of ahscircle

    ahscircle

    [14]Dec 11, 2011
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    Very sad for Violet, she didn't seem too pleased when Tate said "together forever". Right? These last 2 episodes are going to be intense!
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  • Avatar of Lora

    Lora

    [15]Dec 11, 2011
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    So how come violet kept circling in the house just before she found out she was dead? I thought she was able to get into her mom's car when her mom was trying to get them out of the house just before she went into the mental hospital, so that means it wasn't halloween nor should she have been able to get into the car as she was dead right?

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  • Avatar of ButterMeUp44

    ButterMeUp44

    [16]Dec 11, 2011
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    Lora wrote:

    So how come violet kept circling in the house just before she found out she was dead? I thought she was able to get into her mom's car when her mom was trying to get them out of the house just before she went into the mental hospital, so that means it wasn't halloween nor should she have been able to get into the car as she was dead right?



    Ghosts can go anywhere on the property, they just can't leave the property. The car was parked in the driveway, so they were able to into the car. While she was circling the house, she was able to go to the front gate and try to get attention. The dog noticed her, but no one else.
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  • Avatar of HeadlinesRCrazy

    HeadlinesRCrazy

    [17]Dec 11, 2011
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    MsAnalytical wrote:


    HeadlinesRCrazy wrote:


    It seems to me that in this episode, what "happened" was pretty straightforward. What I've been contemplating is the emotions that it evoked for me. Finally, I figured out that the moments between Violet and Tate when he shows her her body and then, afterward, in her room felt very intimate to me, despite an almost complete lack of any sort of romantic gestures (other than Tate hugging Violet). Yet, those moments, for me, somewhat superceded any of the sex we've seen on the show. I couldn't figure out why. It finally occurred to me...What could be more intimate than someone who was there with you when you took your last breath sharing that moment with you? It's creepy. That's for sure. But something about it is also very...I don't want to say "romantic" because that's not it...I guess the word I really do want is "intimate."



    I get what you are saying. When Tate said they were like Romeo and Juliet something clicked with me. We have continually gone back to the discussion of who we like and do not like, who are sympathetic characters, etc. While I thought Tate was creepy and Violet annoying at times I never lost all my sympathy for them and I finally realized why. They are Romeo and Juliet characters.




    I get the Romeo and Juliet reference (two doomed teenage lovers), but to me Violet and Tate are much more Hamlet and Ophelia. Hamlet is angry at his mother because his father has just died and she immediately re-married the uncle who murdered him. Helped along by the ghost of his dead father, Hamlet eventually becomes so consumed with rage that he becomes dead set on exacting revenge on said uncle and sort of loses touch with reality. In the process, he accidentally kills Ophelia's father. Ophelia, grieving the loss of her father and Hamlet's sudden ambivalence toward her literally loses it and either accidentally kills herself or on purpose kills herself (or she may have been murdered by Hamlet's mom, but not very many people are fans of that theory). In fact, pretty much everyone except Hamlet's friend ends up dead at the end of that mess. Like American Horror Story, you know almost from the get go that it just can't end well. To me, those plot parallels are a lot closer to the Violet and Tate story than those of Romeo and Juliet, which is essentially about two dueling families whose past grievances with each other feed hate and vendetta between them until two members of each family, Romeo and Juliet, finally bring peace between the families by falling so in love with each other that they would quite literally die for each other, which ultimately demonstrates to their families how petty they've been. Whether Romeo and Juliet or Hamlet and Ophelia, though, I still agree with what you're saying about what drives our sympathy for them, despite our personal feelings about their actions and personal choices. Essentially, even though neither couple is innocent, they're both ultimately victims of something that is much bigger than them. And, for that, you can't help but feel at least a little bit sorry for them. That's also exactly what has happened to Violet and Tate.

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    MeAgentOfChaos

    [18]Dec 13, 2011
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    ButterMeUp44 wrote:
    Lora wrote:

    So how come violet kept circling in the house just before she found out she was dead? I thought she was able to get into her mom's car when her mom was trying to get them out of the house just before she went into the mental hospital, so that means it wasn't halloween nor should she have been able to get into the car as she was dead right?



    Ghosts can go anywhere on the property, they just can't leave the property. The car was parked in the driveway, so they were able to into the car. While she was circling the house, she was able to go to the front gate and try to get attention. The dog noticed her, but no one else.


    ya but she was just running out the door and then she was right back in, at least with some of the other ghosts, there were able to be seen outside the door. it's as if tate has some special powers to control the house and he knows how to use it to control other ghosts.
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    shekk_beist

    [19]Dec 15, 2011
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    MeAgentOfChaos wrote:
    ya but she was just running out the door and then she was right back in, at least with some of the other ghosts, there were able to be seen outside the door. it's as if tate has some special powers to control the house and he knows how to use it to control other ghosts.
    well there was some time passed from her going in one door and out the other. I think enough for her to go to the gate. so I'm satisfied with how they did that. One thing I didn't get was when Ben and Hayden were discussing their future, or lack there of. They were in a bar drinking, weren't they? How did she leave the house that time? I'm sure I saw other people in there. I may have to watch it again. But I'm happy that Ben has grown and will no longer eyeball the maid.

    Edited on 12/15/2011 8:24am
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  • Avatar of JoshSutton

    JoshSutton

    [20]Dec 15, 2011
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    shekk_beist wrote:

    MeAgentOfChaos wrote:
    ya but she was just running out the door and then she was right back in, at least with some of the other ghosts, there were able to be seen outside the door. it's as if tate has some special powers to control the house and he knows how to use it to control other ghosts.
    well there was some time passed from her going in one door and out the other. I think enough for her to go to the gate. so I'm satisfied with how they did that. One thing I didn't get was when Ben and Hayden were discussing their future, or lack there of. They were in a bar drinking, weren't they? How did she leave the house that time? I'm sure I saw other people in there. I may have to watch it again. But I'm happy that Ben has grown and will no longer eyeball the maid.



    Hayden and Ben was a flashback, right before their affair started
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