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The WB (ended 2004)

My god what a bad ending

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    jfhlbuffy

    [21]Nov 13, 2005
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    I think Nick was kidding...
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    Soulse

    [22]Nov 13, 2005
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    jfhlbuffy wrote:
    I think Nick was kidding...
    lol, oh... there really needs to be a "WARNING: Sarcasim" sign for message boards.
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    AuntArlene

    [23]Nov 13, 2005
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    Soulse wrote:
    jfhlbuffy wrote:
    I think Nick was kidding...
    lol, oh... there really needs to be a "WARNING: Sarcasim" sign for message boards.


    No, it's just a basic assumption around here.

    The pinned CYNTHIA! thread is also a big tipoff.
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    NickSeng

    [24]Nov 13, 2005
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    jfhlbuffy wrote:
    I think Nick was kidding...


    I was?

    Uhhh... ok.



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    jfhlbuffy

    [25]Nov 13, 2005
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    jfhlbuffy wrote:
    I think Nick was kidding...


    Sorry, no real point to this post. Just wanted to see my post quoted four times in a row is all.
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    -Master_K-

    [26]Nov 14, 2005
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    I think that angel ended greatly and people are forgetting that all good things must come to an end. We are happy angel got to last until may and wasn't kicked off the WB like some other shows, --cough--roswell--cough--. I'm just happy that angel went out on top, rather than being played out.

    And I believe the WB admitted they made a mistake by cancelling Angel. I also heard they regretted it.
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    therealcigar

    [27]Nov 15, 2005
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    [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
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    tjaman

    [28]Nov 15, 2005
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    You must fit right in.
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    grailwolf

    [29]Nov 15, 2005
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    therealcigar, you may want to read Nick's post again with the sarcasm-sensitive glasses on.

    Just sayin'.
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    bloodylonewolf

    [30]Nov 18, 2005
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    love that bloody brits very cool.
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    ilovedb

    [31]Dec 3, 2005
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    grailwolf wrote:
    It feels like I left the series on pause on some cosmic DVD player and then someone stole the remote and I can never get back to the people I loved so much.


    Because we are all so lazy to get up and manually push the buttons.
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    NDPZepp

    [32]Dec 3, 2005
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    They were forced to end it quickly and at the time weren't 100% sure if they were coming back. Which is the same way they ended every other seasn of Buffy/Angel if you look back.
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    MetroidSA-X

    [33]Dec 4, 2005
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    When it first ended I was sitting there screaming at the tv like what the hell THAT is the end! But I do have to agree with most people in this thread that it was a good ending, I mean Angel went out fighting, the way he should have. Though I do think if it wasn't cancelled it would have ended very differently. I also hated that thing from the WB after the ending saying something like Thank You from your friends at the Wb or some bulls*** like that, I was just rolling my eyes.
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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [34]Dec 6, 2005
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    I know I've said this a thousand times but I'll say it again. Angel's ending was far better than Buffy's. Buffy's entire series was incredibly repetitive, every season some "Big Bad" would show up and in the end the gang would find some dumb way at the end to beat them. And the finale was no different. I mean the root of the finale scene (The Hellmouth being destroyed) was caused by a necklace that was introduced in that very episode. What? When I watched the finale of Buffy I felt empty about it and felt that nothing really great happened.

    Now we have Angel, unlike Buffy WR&H had always been the main villain in the series starting from the first episode. And unlike Buffy, Angel didn't have to validate his series by saving the world at the end of every season. His character fought the good fight and did what was right.In the end Angel gave away his only chance of becoming human and finally getting his redemption so that he could do what was right. Not laying down and accepting the way the world is. In the end weather he won or lost that fight really doesn't matter. What matters is he stood up and he fought for what he knew needed to be done.

    Angel will never Fade Away from me.

    He was the hero.
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    ilovedb

    [35]Dec 6, 2005
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    I know I've said this a thousand times but I'll say it again. Angel's ending was far better than Buffy's. Buffy's entire series was incredibly repetitive, every season some "Big Bad" would show up and in the end the gang would find some dumb way at the end to beat them. And the finale was no different. I mean the root of the finale scene (The Hellmouth being destroyed) was caused by a necklace that was introduced in that very episode. What? When I watched the finale of Buffy I felt empty about it and felt that nothing really great happened.

    Now we have Angel, unlike Buffy WR&H had always been the main villain in the series starting from the first episode. And unlike Buffy, Angel didn't have to validate his series by saving the world at the end of every season. His character fought the good fight and did what was right.In the end Angel gave away his only chance of becoming human and finally getting his redemption so that he could do what was right. Not laying down and accepting the way the world is. In the end weather he won or lost that fight really doesn't matter. What matters is he stood up and he fought for what he knew needed to be done.

    Angel will never Fade Away from me.

    He was the hero.


    I think both finales were great. The themes of the two shows were different, so you can't really compare or use some of the points you made here. Both shows were about fighting evil, but while Angel focused more on the fight, Buffy focused on saving the world no matter the cost. Yes, the world was saved at the end of every season, but if it wasn't there would be no show left! Besides, it's not like it wasn't without a cost. Because of those costs, whether it be DYING or just stopping a villain, each character changed and developed, which moved the show along.

    How can you say nothing great happenned at the end of the Buffy finale? It wasn't about just stopping The First, which, by the way, was the main villain (the evil in everything) all through out the show. Every potential was made into a slayer. Buffy was no longer alone in the world, or one girl in all the world chosen by a group of men to battle the evil in the world. The point was that she wasn't alone, and that she could try to live a normal life now.

    Both shows were resolved in a very nice way. It doesn't matter if Angel wins or loses the battle because the fight is what is important. In Buffy, there is still another hellmouth, and there will always be evil to fight in the world. Her work, which is now the work of others as well, will never be done. I don't know if you forgot about the major spell, or Willow becoming a goddess, Buffy no longer being alone in the world, characters dying for a cause, growing and changing, etc. The finale was NOT just about saving the hellmouth.

    Buffy and Angel are both heros, as are the other members of their teams.
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    grailwolf

    [36]Dec 6, 2005
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    Don't mean to nitpick, and I mostly agree with your analysis, but Willow didn't actually become a Goddess. Kennedy saying "you're a Goddess" was just an expression of admiration for the work Willow had just done. Sort of metaphory, y'know?
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    ilovedb

    [37]Dec 6, 2005
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    Sorry. I knew that, just didn't proofread. What I meant was Willow sort of overcoming her non-ability to use magic without the power consuming her and causing her to become evil.
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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [38]Dec 7, 2005
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    ilovedb wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    I know I've said this a thousand times but I'll say it again. Angel's ending was far better than Buffy's. Buffy's entire series was incredibly repetitive, every season some "Big Bad" would show up and in the end the gang would find some dumb way at the end to beat them. And the finale was no different. I mean the root of the finale scene (The Hellmouth being destroyed) was caused by a necklace that was introduced in that very episode. What? When I watched the finale of Buffy I felt empty about it and felt that nothing really great happened.

    Now we have Angel, unlike Buffy WR&H had always been the main villain in the series starting from the first episode. And unlike Buffy, Angel didn't have to validate his series by saving the world at the end of every season. His character fought the good fight and did what was right.In the end Angel gave away his only chance of becoming human and finally getting his redemption so that he could do what was right. Not laying down and accepting the way the world is. In the end weather he won or lost that fight really doesn't matter. What matters is he stood up and he fought for what he knew needed to be done.

    Angel will never Fade Away from me.

    He was the hero.


    I think both finales were great. The themes of the two shows were different, so you can't really compare or use some of the points you made here. Both shows were about fighting evil, but while Angel focused more on the fight, Buffy focused on saving the world no matter the cost. Yes, the world was saved at the end of every season, but if it wasn't there would be no show left! Besides, it's not like it wasn't without a cost. Because of those costs, whether it be DYING or just stopping a villain, each character changed and developed, which moved the show along.

    How can you say nothing great happenned at the end of the Buffy finale? It wasn't about just stopping The First, which, by the way, was the main villain (the evil in everything) all through out the show. Every potential was made into a slayer. Buffy was no longer alone in the world, or one girl in all the world chosen by a group of men to battle the evil in the world. The point was that she wasn't alone, and that she could try to live a normal life now.

    Both shows were resolved in a very nice way. It doesn't matter if Angel wins or loses the battle because the fight is what is important. In Buffy, there is still another hellmouth, and there will always be evil to fight in the world. Her work, which is now the work of others as well, will never be done. I don't know if you forgot about the major spell, or Willow becoming a goddess, Buffy no longer being alone in the world, characters dying for a cause, growing and changing, etc. The finale was NOT just about saving the hellmouth.

    Buffy and Angel are both heros, as are the other members of their teams.


    What I was saying when I said nothing great happened I meant nothing great happened to make that end of that season anything more than the ones that followed. At the start of every season some bad thing threatens the world and Buffy saves it. The more Buffy went along to more repetitive it got and the less inventive it got. And as far as development goes the only two who had any were Willow-mainly and Buffy- to a lesser extent. Everyone else basicly stayed the same up to the end.

    And as for you saying that Buffy was alone in the world. She may have been one of only two slayers in the world at the time but she was never alone. She always had someone to back her up and help and do all that for her. Angel has been alone many times and he is still able to do what needs to be done.

    Here's a question for you. If Buffy had an option of staying the slayer or just being a normal girl which do you think she'd pick? Probably just to be normal. Angel gave away his happiness and his hope to become human and to be at peace for the soul purpose of stopping evil. Not only during the Finale when he signed away the Shanshu but in season one I believe the episode was I Will Remember You Angel gave up the only thing he wanted with everything he was, To be with Buffy and to have a normal life with her. When he saw that he couldn't help people anymore and saw he was just risking Buffy's life by trying to save lives he instantly chose to give up his humanity and his happiness so he could do good again, and be able to help the helpless.

    Angel is a better person and a better series.
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  • Avatar of ilovedb

    ilovedb

    [39]Dec 7, 2005
    • member since: 06/22/05
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    ilovedb wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    I know I've said this a thousand times but I'll say it again. Angel's ending was far better than Buffy's. Buffy's entire series was incredibly repetitive, every season some "Big Bad" would show up and in the end the gang would find some dumb way at the end to beat them. And the finale was no different. I mean the root of the finale scene (The Hellmouth being destroyed) was caused by a necklace that was introduced in that very episode. What? When I watched the finale of Buffy I felt empty about it and felt that nothing really great happened.

    Now we have Angel, unlike Buffy WR&H had always been the main villain in the series starting from the first episode. And unlike Buffy, Angel didn't have to validate his series by saving the world at the end of every season. His character fought the good fight and did what was right.In the end Angel gave away his only chance of becoming human and finally getting his redemption so that he could do what was right. Not laying down and accepting the way the world is. In the end weather he won or lost that fight really doesn't matter. What matters is he stood up and he fought for what he knew needed to be done.

    Angel will never Fade Away from me.

    He was the hero.


    I think both finales were great. The themes of the two shows were different, so you can't really compare or use some of the points you made here. Both shows were about fighting evil, but while Angel focused more on the fight, Buffy focused on saving the world no matter the cost. Yes, the world was saved at the end of every season, but if it wasn't there would be no show left! Besides, it's not like it wasn't without a cost. Because of those costs, whether it be DYING or just stopping a villain, each character changed and developed, which moved the show along.

    How can you say nothing great happenned at the end of the Buffy finale? It wasn't about just stopping The First, which, by the way, was the main villain (the evil in everything) all through out the show. Every potential was made into a slayer. Buffy was no longer alone in the world, or one girl in all the world chosen by a group of men to battle the evil in the world. The point was that she wasn't alone, and that she could try to live a normal life now.

    Both shows were resolved in a very nice way. It doesn't matter if Angel wins or loses the battle because the fight is what is important. In Buffy, there is still another hellmouth, and there will always be evil to fight in the world. Her work, which is now the work of others as well, will never be done. I don't know if you forgot about the major spell, or Willow becoming a goddess, Buffy no longer being alone in the world, characters dying for a cause, growing and changing, etc. The finale was NOT just about saving the hellmouth.

    Buffy and Angel are both heros, as are the other members of their teams.


    What I was saying when I said nothing great happened I meant nothing great happened to make that end of that season anything more than the ones that followed. At the start of every season some bad thing threatens the world and Buffy saves it. The more Buffy went along to more repetitive it got and the less inventive it got. And as far as development goes the only two who had any were Willow-mainly and Buffy- to a lesser extent. Everyone else basicly stayed the same up to the end.

    And as for you saying that Buffy was alone in the world. She may have been one of only two slayers in the world at the time but she was never alone. She always had someone to back her up and help and do all that for her. Angel has been alone many times and he is still able to do what needs to be done.

    Here's a question for you. If Buffy had an option of staying the slayer or just being a normal girl which do you think she'd pick? Probably just to be normal. Angel gave away his happiness and his hope to become human and to be at peace for the soul purpose of stopping evil. Not only during the Finale when he signed away the Shanshu but in season one I believe the episode was I Will Remember You Angel gave up the only thing he wanted with everything he was, To be with Buffy and to have a normal life with her. When he saw that he couldn't help people anymore and saw he was just risking Buffy's life by trying to save lives he instantly chose to give up his humanity and his happiness so he could do good again, and be able to help the helpless.

    Angel is a better person and a better series.


    That's really just your opinion. You don't think Buffy would have made the same choice if she was in Angel's postition in I Will Remember You?? Let's not forget that she sacrificed herself in The Gift. And no, I don't think that Buffy would choose to be a normal girl if she had the option. Being the slayer is a key part of who she is. She knows that it she wouldn't be the same if she wasn't the slayer. And I don't see why you would think she would give up her duties so easily. After seeing all of the demons and danger in the world, she would never be able to just stop helping. In the Graduation episodes in season 3 we see her "quit," but that doesn't stop her from still assuming her slayer duties.

    As for Buffy "not" being alone, a person doesn't have to not have any friends or family to be alone in the world. Being the one and only slayer (aside from Kendra and Faith of course) she was indeed alone a lot of the time. Yes, the other Scoobies helped her, but their work was mostly the behind the scenes stuff. Buffy was the one who was forced to make all of the hard decisions, and she was the one who was mostly out in the battlefield. I think Conversations With Dead People excellantly demonstrates how Buffy is alone in the world.

    And if you say that Buffy wasn't alone, then you cannot say that Angel was. When Angel was human, he made the bad decisions to waste away his life with alcohol, and he made the decision to become a vampire. While he was a vampire, he was with Darla, and then with Drusilla and Spike. He certainly wasn't alone then. Going by your guidelines for what qualifies someone as being alone, there was really only that period after Angel got his soul back because after that, he was with Buffy and the other Scoobies, and then he was with the Fang Gang.

    I still don't get how you can say that nothing great happenned at the end of the Buffy finale. Every potential was made into a slayer! That has to be the greatest thing to happen in the entire series!!! It is a MAJOR event! No longer is Buffy the one and only, but there are other people to help battle the evil in the world. And yes, Willow and Buffy did both develop significantly as characters, but they were certainly not the only ones. Take Anya, dying for a cause rather than running away as she did in season 3. Xander clearly grew up through out the series as well. And what about Dawn? You don't think her character developed at all since season 5?
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    MetroidSA-X

    [40]Dec 7, 2005
    • member since: 07/22/05
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    ilovedb wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    ilovedb wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    I know I've said this a thousand times but I'll say it again. Angel's ending was far better than Buffy's. Buffy's entire series was incredibly repetitive, every season some "Big Bad" would show up and in the end the gang would find some dumb way at the end to beat them. And the finale was no different. I mean the root of the finale scene (The Hellmouth being destroyed) was caused by a necklace that was introduced in that very episode. What? When I watched the finale of Buffy I felt empty about it and felt that nothing really great happened.

    Now we have Angel, unlike Buffy WR&H had always been the main villain in the series starting from the first episode. And unlike Buffy, Angel didn't have to validate his series by saving the world at the end of every season. His character fought the good fight and did what was right.In the end Angel gave away his only chance of becoming human and finally getting his redemption so that he could do what was right. Not laying down and accepting the way the world is. In the end weather he won or lost that fight really doesn't matter. What matters is he stood up and he fought for what he knew needed to be done.

    Angel will never Fade Away from me.

    He was the hero.


    I think both finales were great. The themes of the two shows were different, so you can't really compare or use some of the points you made here. Both shows were about fighting evil, but while Angel focused more on the fight, Buffy focused on saving the world no matter the cost. Yes, the world was saved at the end of every season, but if it wasn't there would be no show left! Besides, it's not like it wasn't without a cost. Because of those costs, whether it be DYING or just stopping a villain, each character changed and developed, which moved the show along.

    How can you say nothing great happenned at the end of the Buffy finale? It wasn't about just stopping The First, which, by the way, was the main villain (the evil in everything) all through out the show. Every potential was made into a slayer. Buffy was no longer alone in the world, or one girl in all the world chosen by a group of men to battle the evil in the world. The point was that she wasn't alone, and that she could try to live a normal life now.

    Both shows were resolved in a very nice way. It doesn't matter if Angel wins or loses the battle because the fight is what is important. In Buffy, there is still another hellmouth, and there will always be evil to fight in the world. Her work, which is now the work of others as well, will never be done. I don't know if you forgot about the major spell, or Willow becoming a goddess, Buffy no longer being alone in the world, characters dying for a cause, growing and changing, etc. The finale was NOT just about saving the hellmouth.

    Buffy and Angel are both heros, as are the other members of their teams.


    What I was saying when I said nothing great happened I meant nothing great happened to make that end of that season anything more than the ones that followed. At the start of every season some bad thing threatens the world and Buffy saves it. The more Buffy went along to more repetitive it got and the less inventive it got. And as far as development goes the only two who had any were Willow-mainly and Buffy- to a lesser extent. Everyone else basicly stayed the same up to the end.

    And as for you saying that Buffy was alone in the world. She may have been one of only two slayers in the world at the time but she was never alone. She always had someone to back her up and help and do all that for her. Angel has been alone many times and he is still able to do what needs to be done.

    Here's a question for you. If Buffy had an option of staying the slayer or just being a normal girl which do you think she'd pick? Probably just to be normal. Angel gave away his happiness and his hope to become human and to be at peace for the soul purpose of stopping evil. Not only during the Finale when he signed away the Shanshu but in season one I believe the episode was I Will Remember You Angel gave up the only thing he wanted with everything he was, To be with Buffy and to have a normal life with her. When he saw that he couldn't help people anymore and saw he was just risking Buffy's life by trying to save lives he instantly chose to give up his humanity and his happiness so he could do good again, and be able to help the helpless.

    Angel is a better person and a better series.


    That's really just your opinion. You don't think Buffy would have made the same choice if she was in Angel's postition in I Will Remember You?? Let's not forget that she sacrificed herself in The Gift. And no, I don't think that Buffy would choose to be a normal girl if she had the option. Being the slayer is a key part of who she is. She knows that it she wouldn't be the same if she wasn't the slayer. And I don't see why you would think she would give up her duties so easily. After seeing all of the demons and danger in the world, she would never be able to just stop helping. In the Graduation episodes in season 3 we see her "quit," but that doesn't stop her from still assuming her slayer duties.

    As for Buffy "not" being alone, a person doesn't have to not have any friends or family to be alone in the world. Being the one and only slayer (aside from Kendra and Faith of course) she was indeed alone a lot of the time. Yes, the other Scoobies helped her, but their work was mostly the behind the scenes stuff. Buffy was the one who was forced to make all of the hard decisions, and she was the one who was mostly out in the battlefield. I think Conversations With Dead People excellantly demonstrates how Buffy is alone in the world.

    And if you say that Buffy wasn't alone, then you cannot say that Angel was. When Angel was human, he made the bad decisions to waste away his life with alcohol, and he made the decision to become a vampire. While he was a vampire, he was with Darla, and then with Drusilla and Spike. He certainly wasn't alone then. Going by your guidelines for what qualifies someone as being alone, there was really only that period after Angel got his soul back because after that, he was with Buffy and the other Scoobies, and then he was with the Fang Gang.

    I still don't get how you can say that nothing great happenned at the end of the Buffy finale. Every potential was made into a slayer! That has to be the greatest thing to happen in the entire series!!! It is a MAJOR event! No longer is Buffy the one and only, but there are other people to help battle the evil in the world. And yes, Willow and Buffy did both develop significantly as characters, but they were certainly not the only ones. Take Anya, dying for a cause rather than running away as she did in season 3. Xander clearly grew up through out the series as well. And what about Dawn? You don't think her character developed at all since season 5?
    I agree with you, the characters did grow, and the Buffy finale was an amazing ending to the series, I mean Buffy wasn't the one and only slayer anymore everyone in the world who could be a slayer was a slayer. Also about if Buffy would give up her powers, I have to add something on to that. Remember Helpless, just how weak she felt, I mean after having the kind of power that she had I think it would be very hard to go back to being a normal person again.
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