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The WB (ended 2004)

My god what a bad ending

  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [81]Dec 15, 2006
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    Yeah, I wasn't so convinced it was a great idea when I saw that the first time, back when it was called "Hamlet."

    .
    Edited on 12/15/2006 1:25pm
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    tjaman

    [82]Dec 15, 2006
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    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Angel's finale is either the first or second greatest finale I've ever seen (Lexx being the other) and if I were to change one thing about the Angel series I would have removed the Shanshu prophecy alll together, Angel was never the hero because he thought he would be rewarded he did so because it was the right thing to do and every time the Shanshu was brought up the dynamics of Angel's character changed to something less than what he was. But as a show and as a finale that is one of the best ones I've seen.


    * agrees with so much of what is said here ... *

    * becomes very, very nervous *
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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [83]Dec 15, 2006
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    tjaman wrote:
    ISpeakTheTruth wrote:
    Angel's finale is either the first or second greatest finale I've ever seen (Lexx being the other) and if I were to change one thing about the Angel series I would have removed the Shanshu prophecy alll together, Angel was never the hero because he thought he would be rewarded he did so because it was the right thing to do and every time the Shanshu was brought up the dynamics of Angel's character changed to something less than what he was. But as a show and as a finale that is one of the best ones I've seen.
    * agrees with so much of what is said here ... * * becomes very, very nervous *

    You know what they say about great minds

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    PilotofSerenity

    [84]Dec 15, 2006
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    tj is a great mind? When did this happen? And why wasn't informed.

    Whoa!?!

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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [85]Dec 15, 2006
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    tramlaw301

    [86]Dec 17, 2006
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    Angel has one of the best endings any show could have.  I just love the "never satisfied" contingency that will always exist. I'm not going to get all corny on everyone but the running theme of the show was a never ending battle of good vs. evil and it didn't matter who was there to fight it but we enjoyed the time that we had to watch Angel and his crew be the good side.  There was no happy ending for these characters, there never could be or would be and anyone that has watched enough Buffy or Angel should know that. The ending should be praised because it was true to the series and didn't turn into some hokey happy ending BS.  Angel always had a "built in" ending.....a big battle, people die or go to another dimension. It's been done as season enders already so why not do one for the series finale. Wait till a series like Lost goes off the air. I don't want to be around for that fallout but I probably will be on that forum the same as I am on this one now.  
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    grailwolf

    [87]Dec 18, 2006
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    tramlaw301 wrote:
    Angel has one of the best endings any show could have. I just love the "never satisfied" contingency that will always exist. I'm not going to get all corny on everyone but the running theme of the show was a never ending battle of good vs. evil and it didn't matter who was there to fight it but we enjoyed the time that we had to watch Angel and his crew be the good side. There was no happy ending for these characters, there never could be or would be and anyone that has watched enough Buffy or Angel should know that. The ending should be praised because it was true to the series and didn't turn into some hokey happy ending BS. Angel always had a "built in" ending.....a big battle, people die or go to another dimension. It's been done as season enders already so why not do one for the series finale. Wait till a series like Lost goes off the air. I don't want to be around for that fallout but I probably will be on that forum the same as I am on this one now.

    I'd fine-tune this slightly to say that the series was always about the the fight, whether it ever ended or not.  It was about the willingness to lay everything on the line and fight the good fight no matter what the outcome would be.  This is why they had Angel sign away the prophecy (all arguments about whether this actually would work aside, Angel certainly believed that it worked) so that no one in that final battle was seeking any sort of reward, just fighting because it is the right thing to do.  Or, in the case of the Blue Meanie, because they wished to do more violence.

    Other than that one, relatively minor change, I totally agree with the above.  I don't think any series will ever have an ending that will satisfy everyone, but this finale was more true to the underlying themes of the series than any other that I've seen.
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    quantumcat2

    [88]Dec 20, 2006
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    Angel never needed the shoop. He just needed the affirmation it provided that he wasn't beyond hope. He needed reassurance that he wasn't irredeemably tainted and that what he was trying to do mattered. Nick Knight was in much the same place but he needed to be a real boy. When Nick had his near-death experience,he was told he was unfit for heaven at that time. He still had more to do. Detective Knight assumed he hadn't worked his way out of Hell. I assumed that he was going to be kept alive until he got his head straight and that would probably take a few hundred years. (Guess that negates his attempt at suicide...) In contrast to that,Angel was told that a vampire with a soul would regain his humanity. He never thought that could be anything but a cleansing of his taint or a reward. Can't humanity co-exist with evil? Can't it be a curse? Angel has rejected losing his supernatural state because he needed it to serve those in need. He would fight the good fight even if he were cured of vampirism or absolved of the sins of his earlier life. The Shansu is not a goal or reward so much as it is an invitation to join the ranks of the spiritually whole. For this reason,Angel does not need to claim the shoop,he only required the offer. He would seek the removal of Angelus but that would be primarily due to the latter's evil. If he could keep the powers of his vampire nature without the demonic downside and stay attuned to the needs of the helpless,I think he would find humanity optional. Once the dream was within his grasp,making it a reality could wait until after the task at hand was done.
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    tjaman

    [89]Dec 20, 2006
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    * mad applause *
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    sturble

    [90]Dec 21, 2006
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    I loved the ending of the show.  I'm embarrassed to say that I cry everytime I see Wes die.  He was my favorite character.  I loved his progression from the new Watcher in Buffy to being a total bad ass at the end of Angel. 
    The show ended with a bang.  One of the very important things that Joss Weadon does is incorporate real life situations and emotions into the shows.  Main characters can and do die and so we feel even more attached to them.  I really enjoyed how all the Gang banded together at the end when they knew that they were almost certainly going to die.  It's what heroes would do.

    And really, would we have wanted to see the end?  Have all the good guys die(as they no doubt would have without some miracle) and have the ending credits playing over the bad guys throwing a victory party?  The way it ended, people could still hold out hope and imagine how they would like it to end. 
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    trustno1uk

    [91]Dec 22, 2006
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    The ending wasn't 'bad' it really was rather good but the way they left the story no knowing if they are gonig to die or not was bad, but atleast we got some closure
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    diecaro

    [92]Dec 24, 2006
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    trustno1uk wrote:
    The ending wasn't 'bad' it really was rather good but the way they left the story no knowing if they are gonig to die or not was bad, but atleast we got some closure

    I agree!! I liked the ending, it was different from other shows and it was exciting. I kept thinking about it and wondering what might have happened for weeks. I think once you've achieved that as a writer or director, you can't wish for anything more for your show!
    Compare it with Buffy: it was pretty much a happy ending and everything was "cool" in the end. I loved that finale, too, but it's far more realistic to let the heroes die, as hard as it may sound. So, when the gang marched into their final battle, it was as realistic as a fantasy show could be. I liked the ending!
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    kdtfiles

    [93]Dec 28, 2006
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    Charisma69 wrote:
    grailwolf wrote:
    In all fairness, I hated the ending too for a while. Even now I have extremely mixed emotions about it.

    Yes, it perfectly illustrates the theme of the series which is that the fight is more important than the outcome. You keep fighting the good fight even when it seems that there is no chance to succeed.

    However, I still can't quite get over the fact that there would certainly be a resolution to that battle if the howler monkeys at the WB hadn't pulled the plug.

    It feels like I left the series on pause on some cosmic DVD player and then someone stole the remote and I can never get back to the people I loved so much. I can never see them defeat the demon hordes. I can never see Angel slay his dragon.

    It was the best possible ending they could have had given the circumstances of the part of the story they were telling and the time they had to wrap things up.

    But it wasn't, really, a perfect ending.

    After so many years of fighting the fight and helping the helpless, dammit Angel deserves to ride off into the moonset.

    And, what's more, we deserve to see it.




    same here. even if they killed Spike, Ilyria, and had Gunn die, Angel should have been able to kick butt and live to tell about it.
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    Jen700

    [94]Dec 30, 2006
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    I guess i've sort of changed my mind about the ending. It's not that bad when you think about it, but it could have been better. Still Btvs' ending was much so much cooler .
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    ashman2

    [95]Dec 31, 2006
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    I didn't hate the ending, but it wasn't how I personally would have ended it. I've watched so many programmes that don't end happily, and I know that you wouldn't expect it with something like Angel, but when I saw the finale, I'd just seen about six other shows end really sadly, so I was peeved when Gunn got injured, I kinda hoped Wes would survive, and in the end I had hoped that Angel would be return to being a human. Wishful thinking! Looking back now, I still think the final scene would have been better with the whole gang standing infront of the masses. I still don't get Illyria though, why? That said, the ending still was good to watch, and I'm slightly less annoyed.
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    SleepTight

    [96]Jan 2, 2007
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    Jen700 wrote:
    I guess i've sort of changed my mind about the ending. It's not that bad when you think about it, but it could have been better. Still Btvs' ending was much so much cooler .


    Hmm, in the sense of 'action'? Definitely.
    in the sense of 'writing'? Puh-lease. Buffy season 7 was a big mess to begin with.
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    tjaman

    [97]Jan 2, 2007
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    Oh ...

    I thought Buffy's S7 wrapped up the series beautifully, meself.
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    SleepTight

    [98]Jan 2, 2007
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    tjaman wrote:
    Oh ...

    I thought Buffy's S7 wrapped up the series beautifully, meself.


    It kinda did, I mean, it didn't leave you hungry for more, but I'm not sure if that's a good thing.
    What I didn't like about the season was that the storylines were worn out, 'Selfless' and 'CWDP' were pretty much the only two episodes that were almost flawless.
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    NickSeng

    [99]Jan 2, 2007
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    Personally, I thought BS7 was the most like AS4, so how's that for irony.
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    tjaman

    [100]Jan 2, 2007
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    Structurewise, sure. But in reality, in terms of unfocused storylines and conflicts and plotpoints coming out of nowhere and being very confusing, I'd say AS4 was more like BS6. And I liked BS6.

    I think the biggest difference for me is it felt like BS7 led to a most satisfactory conclusion, whereas AS4 led from Cordy floating about to some sort of Beast to everyone at W&H being a zombie to Cordy being evil to Gunn in a tux to Jasmine and then immediately to CYNTHIA! running W&H.

    WTF?!
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