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Was it just me or was Buffy way better?

  • Avatar of Zamwyn

    Zamwyn

    [81]Mar 25, 2010
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    I love them both pretty much equally. They both have their weak/strong eps. I was late to delve into the Buffyverse (think I started watching when I was 27), but I've made up for it by watching both series many, many times, listened to all commentaries, read most (but not all) of the comics etc. BtVS had the adventage of being "the original", what started it all. No Buffy = no Angel either. The lovestory between Buffy and Angel left me pretty cold, not so much because I didn't think they were a good pair as much as teen love seen through the eyes of an adult seemed pretty uninteresting. Also, I though Angel as a character while still on BtVS was boring as hell. It really bothered me too, that he fell for Buffy when she was still very much a child. When she and Spike had their thing, she was an adult. Personally I don't mind dark, not at all, and both S6 and S7 were very much to my liking. S4 is the weakest of BtVS, S1 is excused as most new shows have growing pains, as is S1 of Angel although I think it's quite good in itself. Although Riley and Adam were characters I felt I could definitely have done without, Dawn was imo the worst addition. She's somewhat ok in S6, but I really wish they hadn't brought her into the mix at all.

    Angel feels more intimate than BtVS I think, and as an adult I find myself relating better to it's characters except for BtVS S6-7. Like most others, I cringe at the very thought of the Cordy/Connor/Jasmine storyline, but S4 still has some real nice moments within that sucky plot. What I'm most upset about regarding Angel is Fred and what happened to Cordy after she joined. I couldn't stand Fred as a character even if she got better after Gunn killed her old professor, but imo she was given way too much focus too early on. Joss is so smitten with Amy Acker that I think he really had a very poor judgement when it came to Fred. It felt like he/they were saying "Fred is loveable, adore Fred or else, darn it!" which I don't think goes well with the rest of Angel, as it's usually a lot more subtle and less dictating. Also, she had way too few obvious (ie intended)character flaws to make me care for her or find her interesting. I thought Illyria rocked however, and I liked Amy Acker on Dollhouse too, so it's really about Fred the character and nothing against Amy. It had nothing to do with bad acting, although it hurt my ears when she kept screaming "Cha-arles" in that whiny tone, even more annoying than Michael's "Waaaalt" in LOST!

    To me it seemed obvious that the writers didn't find Cordy half as interesting as Fred after they all returned from Pylea, and many times Fred got the jokes while they turned Cordy into a quite boring saint (already in S3). Cordy's farewell episode in S6 (You're welcome) was great, but compared to what Fred got it was nothing. It bothers me a lot that they didn't show the character of Cordelia more respect than that. Even in the commentaries, there's very little talk about Cory/Charisma, and lots about Fred/Amy, especially when they're in the same scenes.
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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [82]Mar 25, 2010
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    wordlessdan wrote:
    All right, let's look at this logically. And what do you think of when you think of logic? Numbers. Numbers=logic. So...

    Buffy season 1: 2.5/5
    B season 2: 3.5/5
    B season 3: 4/5
    B season 4: 3/5
    B season 5: 3.5/5
    B season 6: 3/5
    B season 7: 1.5/5

    Angel season 1: 4/5
    A season 2: 5/5
    A season 3: 4.5/5
    A season 4: 4/5
    A season 5: 4/5

    It would seem, using the the objective and perfect rating system, that Angel is leagues better than Buffy.


    But of course, these are YOUR ratings, and therefore subjective by nature. I, as a different human being, would always rate seasons 2, 3, and 5 of Buffy higher than season 4 of Angel and WAAAAAY higher than season 3 of Angel (that was all story, NO theme--okay, an itty bitty blip of theme).

    You could use a rating system, but it would have to encompass ALL viewers' scores, not just your own, to be "objective."
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  • Avatar of Zwingli4

    Zwingli4

    [83]Apr 7, 2010
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    I still like BtVS better than Angel, although Angel is almost as good. I'm only up to season 4 of Angel but here's my take.


    Buffy:


    S1=3/5


    S2=5/5


    S3=4&1/2/5


    S4=3&1/2/5


    S5=4/5


    S6=4/5


    S7=3/5


    Angel:


    S1=4/5


    S2=5/5


    S3=4/5


    S4=3/5 (so far)


    Anyway to put it simply I just liked the characters in BtVS a little better.



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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [84]Apr 11, 2010
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    I don't really think they can be compared.
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  • Avatar of rockworm5039

    rockworm5039

    [85]Apr 15, 2010
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    buildam2005 wrote:
    tommytv wrote:

    Im sorry to be sexist here but Angel was better to watch and Better for guys to watch. Buffy was good at times but it got girlie. Aspecially From season 4 With Tara and willlow, and Dawn. you just got aloud of teen girlie issues and vampire fighting.

    With Angel it was more serious and darker. it had better stories and character building. Stories with Doyle and his death, Wesley Kidnapping Conner and got darker, Angel and Conner, Cordelia, Fred and Gunn in season 5. Buffy may had some Character building but I only really saw it from Buffy and Spike in last few seasons.

    Angel was better for story wise and seriousness.



    Interesting take. I'd argue that season six of Buffy was the darkest of all the seasons of the two shows combined--and, uh, did you see how WILLOW changed in the later years of Buffy? Not just Spike and Buffy (though they sort of became the primary cast).

    And as a male, I certainly enjoyed Buffy more. I simply enjoy the character study-style of Buffy more than the story-driven Angel format, though I do like that as well. Angel had more action sequencing I think, but if I wanted to simply watch some flashy fight scenes, I'd pop in a copy of the Matrix trilogy (which I don't own).


    Thats ironic cause I had an argument a while back in myspace forums with some dude who said Angel is nothing like buffy because its just for teenage girls. Thats right he was convinced that Angel is just for girls to get hot for David Boreanaz.
    I dont think Buffy is too girly. it sounds just as absurd as this guys claim of saying Angel is just eye candy for chicks.
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  • Avatar of rockworm5039

    rockworm5039

    [86]Apr 15, 2010
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    The_void_68 wrote:
    I find it hard to seperate the two. My favourite character in the Buffyverse is Angel - but do I credit that to his appearances on AtS or his creation on BtVS? Same goes for Cordy. Both shows had their good points and bad points, good episodes and bad episodes. I think that Angel was more consistent than Buffy, but the latter reached higher levels of greatness at times - Innocence, Hush, Restless, Season 3 (but then again also greater levels of suckiness - Bad Eggs, Where the Wild Things Are, Wrecked, Season 6). Angel created its own awesome characters like Fred, Gunn, Lorne, Lilah, but Buffy had its own set of awesome characters, plus it created three (later four) of Angel's main characters. BtVS had some sucky characters like Riley or Dawn on occasions, but AtS had Connor. They're not like Doctor Who/Torchwood, they can't be easily seperated. The share many characters, they crossed over a lot, and they are aimed at very similar audiences. You could say that AtS is darker, but I'm not sure that's 100% true, just look at S6 of BtVS.

    I just view them as one big show, and love them equally.


    I'm with the_void here I can't watch one without the other they make both shows better.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [87]Apr 15, 2010
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    It's better to watch them in chronological order, like I did not.
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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [88]Sep 23, 2011
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    I know S4 of Buffy is considered by many as really bad, but I rather liked it, not my fave of Buffy season though. I wasn't a massive fan of S5, I think that might be in part to my utter loathing of Spuffy (love both characters, hate them together), a pairing which only became clear and to the front in S5. S5 also introduced Dawn who IMHO is extremely self centred bratty and just plain irritating. It began really turning Spike towards being one of the good guys (sort of), helping them (reluctantly), and though I'm not someone who hates good Spike & loves bad Spike, I liked both, the reasoning behind it bugged me and I can see how people would be dissapointed by it. Also though I don't like or dislike Riley (I must be like the only one LOL), I felt kind of bad for him with how he was treated a little by Buffy (unintentionially), Dawn's fault really though that. Then had him cheat on her and leave before she could finally stop him. I thought S4 was pretty enjoyable though. Even with it's different plot.

    I think after a while (I really don't know when it changed) hearing Buffy make mocking comments to her opponents started to seem less funny and more mean. I think it was because she got so much stronger as she went on but continued to mock them, even when she didn't think there was even the slightest chance of her losing or them putting up much of a fight. That started to annoy me a little later on. Certain ones she was clearly just cutting down, but still made little irrelevant comments to degrade them. I think I'm just taking that to seriously .

    I think almost everyone dislikes the possessed Cordy plot of Angel S4. I was never particularly happy with her characterization from self centered (but amusing) b***h, to saint (who still acts suspisiously selfishly). I liked the character developement just not where it all went. It was a little 'look how lovely Cordelia is now' to me. Even though she still clearly acted and spoke with the same arrogance she had before, and while I liked her like that earlier, having everyone call her lovely and so nice (it seemed like that at times later on) while still acting so much (just slightly more caring) like before, was annoying to me.

    I like Angel a bit more. Love both though. I liked that in Angel there was a little less 'you can kill any currently non human, but kill an evil human and you deserve to die a painful death' than there was in Buffy. There were very few demon characters in Buffy who weren't at some point mistreated by the team. The don't hurt humans bit was a theme in both, but IMHO in Angel it was much less demons vs humans, even if they still tried not to kill humans. They'd help the non humans too.

    I think my favourites are of each= B=2 & 3, (I find 4 very amusing and fun too). A=5 & 2.

    I never really like the potentials idea in Buffy S7. It was too 'these 4 thousand girls are better and more capable than every other one in the world' even if it's just meant in certain ways, it seems like that at times. Also not much of a fan of mega powerful witch Willow, especially the one calling herself 'goddess', it was cool in the early ones though. She became too arrogant though (what she did to Tara was aweful too). I know that it was show clearly in S4 that Willow's witch, lesbian now, with Tara, confidence etc was a bit of a persona that she thought defined her now and was scared to lose or for people to think of her outside of that. But though W/T was sweet I thought it was a shame that she was never called bisexual. It was always 'Hey, gay now!' even though she and Xander couldn't keep their hands off of each other so much that she had to use magic, then grief to make themselves stop. She was genuinely attracted to several different men. Though many people seem to suddenly 'realise' that they're gay when they first get with someone, even if they've been with several people of the opposite. Yet define themselves as gay, I know what matters is how the characters 'defines' herself, but it seemed odd that after her genuine (not remotely platonic or fake) feelings for particularly Xander & Oz, it seemed a shame that they didn't have her be bisexual, she wouldn't even consider it with a guy she was under a spell for (in Him), no she had to change his gender via magic first. Though I'm sure that's just rule of funny in works along with running jokes, it can be a little annoying. I'm not sure if I explained that properly, I do like T/W.

    Don't get me wrong I love all of both shows. I know I was pointing out more of the stuff I didn't like though.
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  • Avatar of PenguinSuzie

    PenguinSuzie

    [89]Sep 23, 2011
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    Though I would never double post usually. Since 'Edit' is down I wanted to clarify. I didn't mean anyone who says they are gay but has had several past straight lovers/relationship is lying or wrong. I didn't mean that at all, it could happen, rare but could, also I mean genuinely REALLY, REALLY into the opposite s*x, (will it bleep that word out). Like in this case Xander & Willow quite noticibly. I hope that makes sense and doesn't just sound as ignorant as I think it might. That's not how I mean it. They were just really into each other (W/O too, but for the noticble lust X/W were obvious, and not in a sad 'this is what is expected of me I better act like it' way.) They just were. Even after identifying as a lesbian she still showed attraction to men at certain points throughout the series.) I guess it's just annoying sometimes when there is so few (not insane or evil in any way) bisexual characters on TV, or at least ones that are actually identified as such in the show. It's not a word used a lot for characters. Especially not in shows from the general time. (Yes I'm aware there are still many bisexual characters, not nearly as many as there are with straight or gay characters though. Even if a character is bisexual, many will never use the word or admit it, or they will be a particularly promiscuous character or evil or something, a trope which is far to used.) I hope I'm making sense and not coming across in a way I really don't mean to.
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    angelpuppet

    [90]Sep 25, 2011
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    i thought angel was better much darker buffy was better in the hottnes and humor tho
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  • Avatar of jack756

    jack756

    [91]Sep 27, 2011
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    wow i thought i reply on this already i guess not.after watching all seasons of both shows.i have to say angel is better.


    dont get me wrong btvs was really good but at times it could get alittle girlie and as a guy it kind of got annoyingwhich was kind of wired .with angel it had more of a male point of view on things rather than a woman point of view on things.angel is better than buffy.


    on other note i like btvs characters alot more than angels characters and i i like angel storyarchs better than btvs storyarchs.


    so angel better than btvs.


    i do like angel stories better


    and


    i like btvs characters better

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    Yaspaa

    [93]Oct 22, 2011
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    They are both the same show, in a different setting, I can't see how you can like one and not the other, but saying one is significantly better is just plain dumb. Buffy went through the hard work of getting itself settled and Angel just surfed the coattails, for this reason Buffy will always be considered better. This is more understandable if you watched it when it aired. @Zamwyn, are you mental? The Buffy/Angel thing is what shot the show into the stratophere, if it left you cold, I'm sorry, you're a vampire.
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  • Avatar of Connor91

    Connor91

    [94]Dec 8, 2011
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    I preferred the storyline and writing on Angel but I prefer the tone and characters on Buffy. Overall I think I prefer Buffy. I think Angel is more consistent in terms of quality but I think the best Buffy episodes are better than the best Angel episodes (most of which have a Buffy character in). I didn't really find any of the characters on Angel that likable either, I found it a lot easier to identify with the characters in Buffy - even the ones I didn't like, such as Xander.
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    Gaby8529

    [95]Jan 12, 2012
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    I prefer Angel. Buffy I tried to watch it a couple of times but it's so teenage angst..

    Angel should've ended at Season 4. Angel as the head of Wolfman and Hart made no sense at all.. joining the ones who were the cause of evil. The series just lost it
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  • Avatar of Gilda

    Gilda

    [96]May 30, 2012
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    well i think buffy was better for somethings while angel was better for others. I cant really say that Buffy was way better than Angel. I feel that the first three seasons of both shows were the best for them, for buffy i think things started slowly going downhill as soon as they left highschool and def hit rockbottom as soon as the potentials showed up. Angel pretty much lost me when Cordy/Jasmine and Conner got together on Angel also S5 of Angel didnt really make sense with him as head of W&H. But the episodes in those seasons wern't really that bad its just that the plot was kind of annoying at times.
    For story lines Angel's were prob better/stronger and a lot more consistant in quality than Buffy. I aslo found that Angel had a smaller amount of "bad" episodes.
    For characters I think i like more of the Buffy characters compaired to Angel. Cuz Buffy had characters like Anya, Willow, Oz, Spike, Giles and so on (and i guess that would also include the characters that left to go onto angel too). I also found that they were alot more upbeat and fun. On Angel alot of the characters were alot more serious, which is also good and fits into the tone of the show. What I liked about Angel was that it was able to really flesh out the secondary characters who were on Buffy and as soon as they got to Angel I found that I liked them alot more (Angel,Wes, Darla, ect (already liked Cordy when she was on Buffy)). But then again my fav character from the buffyverse is Dru and shes a secondary character and wasnt that "big" in either series (dont get me wrong she played a role but just wasnt in that many episodes).
    For characters that I didnt like, Buffy had more of them (mostly b/c i hated the idea of the potentials but there was also Riley and Dawn). I also found that on Buffy alot of characters changed too much for my liking. I think the best example would be spike. I loved his character in season two and that one episode in season 3 but when he lost Dru and started having a "thing" for buffy his character suddenly became weaker and very whiney. That really started to show around midway through season four. For Angel the only characters that i didnt like were Conner and Jasmine.
    idk if I could really say that one is better than the other because they were both strong in different ways. However i find that I do rewatch Buffy episodes more often then Angel. Out of all the seasons Buffy DEF had the worst (season 7) and out of the whole buffyverse my fav. season would be S2 of Buffy (had all the great characters minus Anya and Faith). But my favorite episode out of the whole buffyverse might actually be Angel S5E12 You're Welcome.

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  • Avatar of kevinc62

    kevinc62

    [97]Jul 27, 2012
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    I think Buffy was better. Angel had amazing storyline and was consistenly good, except S4, which is almost unwatchable. Kind of like S7 of Buffy. My favorite Angel character was, by far, Wesley; since the whole Angel/Angelus thing was so boring and repetitive after a while, also, hate what they did with Cordelia.

    The bottom line is Angel was good most of the time (forgetting S4 happened), whereas Buffy was more hit or miss, but when they got it right, it was the finest thing in television: Innocence, Becoming One Pt 2, Hush, Restless,The Body, The Gift, Once More, With Feeling (considered by many the best musical episode on a non musica show); Chosen are among the best you can get in this genre or TV in general, and are the main reason Buffy was more critical acclaimed.
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  • Avatar of HiRez

    HiRez

    [98]Jun 13, 2014
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    It's not just you.
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  • Avatar of nanobyte55

    nanobyte55

    [99]Aug 27, 2014
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    I think that it's ultimately an unfair comparison. I would say that the majority of spin-offs are simply a way of getting more air time for a show once the universe of said show has expanded beyond what can be covered in a single hour of television. In creating Angel, the writers were able to explore the same universe from a completly different angle.



    At it's heart, Buffy, like any other show set in a high school, was a coming of age tale. Buffy and her friends were just trying to grow up and their "demons" just happened to be real instead of metaphorical. They were just a bunch of teenagers doing stupid teenagers things, but the stakes were so much higher.



    On the other hand, Angel, at least to me, really spoke to the duality of good and evil. It also focused on the ideas of redeption and fate vs. self-determination. As someone who started watching Buffy at eleven-ish, Angel felt like a more "grown up" show that appealed to me more and more as I got older.



    To summarize, Buffy, at its best, reached levels of brilliance in certain episodes that Angel would sadly never attain; the best episode of Buffy would knock down the best episode of Angel any day. But at the same time, Angel as a whole has always been more appealing to me. I love it. It is one of my favourite shows ever. That is all.

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