Season 3 Episode 3

That Old Gang of Mine

Aired Wednesday 9:00 PM Oct 08, 2001 on The WB
out of 10
User Rating
359 votes

By Users

Episode Summary

Gunn finds himself stuck between old and new allegiances when he learns that a string of brutal and indiscriminate demon murders is the work of members of his former gang. Even Lorne's usually peaceful club isn't immune to the violence. Cordelia, meanwhile, attempts to help Fred readjust to the world.moreless

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  • Supernatural Magnum Force

    THAT OLD GANG OF MINE (anyone else keep expecting Gunn to break into a number from Sweet Charity?)

    The Good;

    Angel apologising to Merl is hilarious but this is Gunn's ep. Love Fred singing at Caritas and she shows some steel for the first time.

    The Bad;

    Evidence bags. Hmmm? Are we on CSI or something? Weird how they appear this week as an important part of the plot but then we never see them again.

    Best line:

    Fred; "Oh. Oh! Ohhhhhh!" (all in the delivery)

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?

    The killing of the balancing entity is particularly gruesome

    Apocalypses: 5

    Angel Cliches

    Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

    Human's bad, demons, well if not good not inherently evil

    In disguise; 8

    DB get's his shirt off; 12

    Cordy's tattoo; 8,

    Cheap Angel; 7

    Fang Gang in bondage:

    Cordy: 5

    Angel: 10

    Wes: 6

    Gunn; 3

    Lorne; 2

    Fang gang knocked out:

    Cordy: 11

    Angel: 13

    Wes: 5

    Doyle; 1

    Gunn; 1

    Lorne; 2

    Kills: one demon for Gunn

    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3 demons

    Angel; 28 vamps, 40 and 1/2 demons, 3 humans

    Doyle; 1 vamp

    Wes; 7 demons+1 vamp

    Kate; 3 vamps

    Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.

    Gunn; 8 vamps+ 6 demons.

    Fang Gang go evil:

    Cordy: 2

    Angel: 2

    Alternate Fang Gang:

    Cordy: 2

    Angel: 6

    Characters killed:


    Recurring characters killed; goodbye Merl. Gunn is still haunted by killing his sister which you can't blame him for.


    Total number of Angel Investigations:

    5, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn and Fred

    Angel Investigations shot:

    Angel: 11

    Wes; 1

    Packing heat; Gunn with a shotgun. He seems to object to the gang using Uzis but under his leadership they didn't hesitate to use a flamethrower.

    Wes; 3

    Doyle; 1

    Angel; 1

    Gunn; 1

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost: Angel and the Furies

    Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis

    Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies

    Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

    Kinky dinky:

    It's implied that Angel beds the three Furies (genuine characters from Greek mythology and very popular on TV at the time also turning up on Xena and Charmed, Piper even becomes one for a while). Singly or all three sisters at the same time? (Every man's ultimate fantasy? Or would that include their milfy mom joining in as well?) He's now happy to do so as after Darla he knows he won't lose his soul because he doesn't love them. Of course this is what we all assume. I read a very funny fanfic once where we learn that the Furies actually dig Angel due to his exquisite foot massage technique.

    Captain Subtext;

    CC describes Fred as 'sweet and adorable'. Lorne describes Gunn as 'sweetie'. The Furies tell Cordelia she is not equipped to pay this debt but I once read a rather good fanfic on the subject which ended in the words "MMMMmmmmm Cordelia!". What exactly did Rondell flee from in Florida? Who is the girl who trusted him to the end? Someone he betrayed or someone who he couldn't save?

    Know the face, different character; 3

    Parking garages;


    Buffy characters on Angel; 16

    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

    Questions and observations;

    Wes saves Fred in Caritas. Wes' new image makes him look like some form of student teacher or something. Surely shooting Lorne would do him no harm if cutting his head off doesn't kill him? One demon keeps saying "Oh god", the other says "He's not listening", weird that demons refer to god.

    Now, are Rondell and the guys right or wrong? When they raid Caritas they kill at least one vamp and a babyeating demon, it's hard to say that's really wrong? The problem is they don't distinguish as AI do. The ending is probably as good as you can get in this dilemma. Interesting that Wes warns Gunn about divided loyalties a subject he's going to learn all about later in the season.

    Marks out of 10; 7/10

  • I hate Gunn's gang.

    That Old Gang of Mine is probably one of the worst episodes of Angel and maybe the entire Buffyverse. It's dull and frankly, aggravating. Gunn's gang episodes are always boring no matter what the scenario and this is the worst of the lot.

    The main story of humans killing friendly demons is a bit.. meh. It's obviously a metaphor for "never judge a book by its cover" but did they really have to include Rondell etc? Their episodes are always bad (except maybe The Thin Dead Line) and does anyone really care about Gunn's torn loyalties or whatever? Cause I certainly don't. The entire scene in Caritas annoyed the hell out of me and mainly because of one character: Gio. The writers seemed to have went out of their way to create the most annoying character to appear on T.V. Everything that came out of his mouth was worthless garbage and his whole speech segment was awful and made me want to smash up the television. The actor who played him was awful and made the character worse with his mannerisms and voice. The whole character was truly horrendous and I've never felt happier at a character dying than I did here.

    Gunn was also annoying here. He realises his gang are killing innocent creatures but doesn't say anything and withholds evidence- what? Why? It's not as if Angel and Wesley were going to go and murder them all bloodily (unfortunately). He came across as unlikeable here and it's no wonder his character isn't as popular as the rest- he doesn't really have much character development at ALL.

    Everyone else was excellent however, especially Fred. Her courage at standing up to Gio was amazing- especially seeing as she's a nervous wreck in the best of times. This girl has brains- I think she's possibly smarter than Wesley. Cordelia was great as always as was Wesley and I really liked Angel in this episode for some reason. The two bright points in this episode were the Furies- hilarious- and the demon drinking the soda- also hilarious. I like that even in a bad episode of Angel, there's always something good or some redeeming quality. No episode is truly terrible (although The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco was very bad).

    That Old Gang of Mine is an OK although mostly annoying episode that is Angel almost at it's worst. It shouldn't be missed however- it's Angel and therefore should be seen, as it's still great T.V. However, it won't be seeing too many spins in the DVD player.moreless
  • This episode shows the ugliness of racism directed towards demons.

    This issue was skirted many times in Buffy but not directly addressed, where her righteousness in her calling as the Slayer eclipsed the moral implications of her slaying, at least in the telling of the story. She mercilessly killed almost anything (unfortunately/confusingly not Spike) that was an 'evil' demon or vampire, and conveniently she was never wrong.

    In Angel, the shades of gray of demon behavior are more apparent, with a larger proportion of the demons shown being something less than pure evil, or not at all. In fact, the revelation of other dimensions where demons come from, not quite 'hell' or 'heaven' dimensions, shows that the demons are just people too, even though not human. Frankly in the context of this show I believe the word 'demon' is misleading and derogative--a racial slur.

    Here Gunn is confronted with this issue. When first meeting Angel earlier in the series, Gunn behaved in a very similar fashion to Gio (but significantly less annoying) in that he saw the issue as black/white. We have seen his racism towards demons fade as he joined the gang, but by the end we can see that he is still struggling with himself to fight it, as he tells Angel that he could never be his friend. This episode shows that it can take time to abandon our preconceptions of others based on fear and ignorance, but that we should grow more accepting to those that are different from ourselves.moreless
  • That Old Gang of Mine

    That Old Gang of Mine was a really great episode of Angel. I really enjoyed watching this episode which had a lot of character building for Gunn and Fred as well. I really enjoyed Cordelia trying to help Fred come out of her shell. Fred had some great scenes and really came through for the gang. I thought Gunns old gang had some interesting points of view. There was a lot of action, drama, intrigue and classic humor in this episode. The poor Host is always having his club destroyed when Angel and the Gang are around. I suppose its his curse, like Cordelia always being impregnated by demons, etc.... I can't wait to find out what happens next!!!!!!!moreless
  • Humans Gone Wild?

    That Old Gang of Mine-Gunn finds himself stuck between old and new allegiances when he learns that a string of brutal and indiscriminate demon murders is the work of members of his former gang. Even Lorne's usually peaceful club isn't immune to the violence. Cordelia, meanwhile, attempts to help Fred readjust to the world.

    Like I have said once before, the one of Angel's best messages of the show was how humans can be just as evil and heartless as demons, and in some cases, like this episode. They are much worse! One of the few decent episodes centered around our street smart and born leader Gunn, J. August Richards gives a great performance, and should get more credit from Angel fans about his acting. You just feel bad for Gunn being stuck in this situation because he had tochose between Angel's mission and the one he started. Becuase of his choice, what he started became the complete opposite of what it was. Also this episode raises some questions that Angel's parent show, Buffy, only played with. Should all demons be destroy or are they're some that truly deserve not to be harmed? Can't they're be a grey area in this black and white wold we live in? Most of all, is being a demon really a bad thing? I mean we've seen Angel fit that grey area because of his soul, then there's Lorne, not to mention countless other noble demons who fight for good, so I'm think being a demon can go both ways, good or evil, just how humans can be good and evil. I just love how the episode makes that statment. The way Gunn's old gang are seen as the monsters in this episode is well played, especially Khalil Kain (Juice, Girlfriends) who gives a good performance as the new arrogant leader of street gang. I just love the scene where Lorne reads him and gets into his head, the tense is just really great in that scene. We also get to see how Gunn truly feels about Angel, which is shocking but actually believeable for Gunn's personality. On a lighter note, I liked Fred with the crossbow, she's just so cute and Cordy with the three mystic chicks as they moan "Hmmmmmm Angel", lol. All and All, That Old saldy underrated episode for all the wrong reasons, when is a truly great episode with some good morals with what is means to be human or demon in realistic poitn of view!moreless
Jarrod Crawford

Jarrod Crawford


Guest Star

Khalil Kain

Khalil Kain


Guest Star

Steve Niel

Steve Niel

Huge & Horrible

Guest Star

Andy Hallett

Andy Hallett


Recurring Role

Matthew James

Matthew James


Recurring Role

Trivia, Notes, Quotes and Allusions


  • TRIVIA (2)

    • In the scene at Caritas, where Fred is pointing the crossbow at Gio's throat, the distance between the bolt and his neck is different in each camera angle but she is not moving.

    • At the end of the episode as Angel and Gunn walk away, you can see Angel's reflection in the wet ground.

  • QUOTES (19)

    • Angel: (About the Furies) Tell them to lift the spell, and I'll be able to fight back.
      Cordelia: Yes! They'll lift the spell and then you can fight... all 20 of them and still get killed. GREAT idea.

    • Angel: (to Gunn) Nice shot. Am I next?

    • Rondell: (about Angel) He ain't your friend. I am. And you gonna choose that over me?
      Gunn: Looks like. It's about the mission, bro. He's got it. You don't.

    • Gunn: No matter what else, I think I proved that you can trust me when I could have killed you and I didn't.
      Angel: No - you'll prove I can trust you when the day comes that you have to kill me - and you do.

    • Merl: Real friends don't need notes.
      Angel: We're not friends, Merl. We barely even know each other.

    • Cordelia: (While Fred is singing "Crazy" on stage) I swear, she picked out the song herself.

    • Wesley: This is madness. Angel has a soul.
      Gio: He's a vampire.
      Wesley: With a soul!
      Gio: Whatever. - You think that makes him the same as us?
      Wesley: No. Better. (To Gio) Better than you, anyway. When he did his pleasure killing he had no soul. You can make no such claim.

    • Wesley: (to Rondell) If you don't mind I'd prefer a clean kill. The last time I was merely wounded. It took months to heal. Wounded, if I recall, in an attempt to help you.

    • Angel: What's this?
      Cordy: Enemies of Merl list.
      Angel: Hey. - Why is my name at the top of this list?
      Cordy: Ah - 'a'?
      Angel: Merl and I were not enemies.
      Cordy: Oh, okay, my mistake.
      Angel: I'm the one that found the body, remember?
      Cordy: Oh. And that's not suspicious.

    • Wesley: It was them. They killed Merl and the others. (to Gunn) You knew.
      Gunn: I should have said something. I was going to. I was just... I was trying to work it out, man. Figure how to deal.
      Lorne: So, have you worked it out yet?

    • Gunn: (about killing Angel) You think I won't kill him because he's my friend? That ain't why. Truth is, he can never be my friend. It's on account of what he is. Not his fault, really. Just the way it worked out.

    • Furies: (Repeatedly over the course of the episode) Mmm...Angel.

    • Cordelia: (about Fred) Angel - I told her she was safe with me.
      Angel: I know.

    • Angel: Look, I want you to go to this address.
      Cordy: What is it?
      Angel: Transuding Furies.
      Cordy: Gesundheit.

    • Angel: If I had killed Merl, would I have brought doughnuts?

    • (apologizing to Merl)
      Angel: That night still haunts me. I'm ashamed how I treated you, the way I used you. I took what I needed, then I cast you aside and that was wrong of me, it was very wrong.
      Merl: He's reading!
      Angel: I made some notes.

    • Furies: Only Angel is equipped to make good on the debt.
      Cordy: Angel, pfft! I don't know, you know for a guy who's a couple of centuries old, not very big with the wise investing. And, when you say "equipped," that isn't what you meant, is it?

    • Merl: What do I want? I'll tell you what I want - I want back the 3 months I spent in therapy after being hung upside down in a sewer - that's what I want.

    • Wesley: (to Gunn) If you ever withhold information or attempt to subvert me again, I will fire you. I can't have any one member of the team compromising the safety of the group, no matter who it is. If you do it again you will be dismissed, bag and baggage, out of a job onto the streets.

  • NOTES (4)

    • Music:
      Sung by Fred at Caritas -- "Crazy" by Patsy Cline

      Sung by Gio -- "Wind Beneath My Wings" by Larry J. Henley and Jeff Alan Silbar

    • This conversation showing Cordelia's difficulty in getting to know Fred was cut from the episode due to time constraints.
      Cordelia: You're exactly the sort of girl who would have hated me in high school.
      Fred: Oh, I'm sure that's not true.
      Cordelia: No, no it is. I pretty much saw to it. I was a cheerleader, had power, popularity. You didn't know me then.
      Fred: No I didn't. I knew you when you were a princess.
      Cordelia: Uh, right. Anyway...

    • This is the final on-screen appearance of Gunn's gang. They will later be mentioned in 'Double or Nothing' and 'Not Fade Away.'

    • This episode was intended to be aired as the second episode of the season but was switched and aired as the third instead.