Season 5 Episode 17


Aired Wednesday 9:00 PM Apr 14, 2004 on The WB

Episode Fan Reviews (9)

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  • Angel hits the suburbs


    The Good;

    All the Lindsey stuff is great and love the appearance of Marcus and everyone's reaction to it. Love the Spike/Angel conference complete with beer.

    The Bad;

    How does Lindsey know Fred and Cordy are dead? Or is he referring to Doyle and Gunn? You can see the perspective gag when Marcus punches through the security guard. The background on the roof set which Wes and Illyria stand on is obviously fake.

    Best line;

    Angel; "Bad things always happen here, Spike"

    Spike; "Hate to break it to you mate but bad things happen everywhere"

    Jeez, how did they get away with that?

    Lindsey/Gunn have their own personal torture chamber. Spike just picks up the hearts with his bare hands.

    Apocalypses: 5 Spike and Angel have a discussion over what qualifies as an apocalypse. Lindsey informs them they're actually living in an apocalypse.

    Angel Cliches

    Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Marcus doesn't want to fight, just to get Eve to sign her contract.

    In disguise; 8

    DB/JM get's his shirt off; 19, Lorne takes the bullets out of Spike

    Cheap Angel; 8

    Fang Gang in bondage:

    Cordy: 5

    Angel: 15

    Wes: 8

    Gunn; 8

    Lorne; 6

    Fred; 5

    Spike; 6

    Fang gang knocked out:

    Cordy: 15

    Angel: 20

    Wes: 10

    Doyle; 1

    Gunn; 4

    Lorne; 8

    Groo; 1

    Connor; 1

    Faith; 1

    Fred; 7

    Spike; 5


    Cordy: 5 vamps, 3 demons

    Angel; 48 vamps, 67 and 1/2 demons, 5 zombies, 12 humans, one werewolf and one cyborg

    Doyle; 1 vamp

    Wes; 16 demons+5 vamps, 5 zombies, 4 humans, 2 cyborgs

    Kate; 3 vamps

    Faith; 18 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.

    Gunn; 11 vamps+ 15 demons, 5 zombies, 1 human.

    Groo; 1 demon

    Fred; 3 vamps+ 14 demons, 5 zombies

    Connor; 16 vamps, 5 zombies, 2 demons, Jasmine

    Spike; 21 vamps, 12 demons+1 human+one parasite

    Fang Gang go evil:

    Cordy: 3

    Angel: 3

    Gunn; 1

    Wes; 1

    Alternate Fang Gang; suburban Gunn

    Cordy: 4

    Angel: 12

    Fred; 3

    Wes; 1

    Gunn; 2

    Connor; 1

    Lorne; 1

    Characters killed: poor WR&H security guard


    Recurring characters killed; Eve realises that she's going to die just like Anya in Buffy.


    Total number of Angel Investigations; 5,

    Angel, Gunn, Lorne, Wes, Spike

    Angel Investigations shot: Spike and Angel

    Angel: 15

    Wes; 2

    Spike; 1

    Packing heat; not the gang but you've got to love a series with Uzi toting soccer moms!

    Wes; 13

    Doyle; 1

    Angel; 4

    Gunn; 3

    Fred; 5

    Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:

    Cordy: 5 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo+Connor plus possibly the Beast

    Angel: 6; Buffy, Darla, The Transcending Furies, Eve

    Wes; 3 definite; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah, 2 possible, Justine, Fred

    Gunn; 2 Fred and Gwen.

    Fred; 1 Gunn, 1 possible Wes

    Groo; 1Cordy

    Spike; 3-Buffy, Anya, Harmony

    Kinky dinky:

    Spike talks about 'pounding the neighbours wife'.

    Captain Subtext;

    Angel and Lorne comment on how well dressed Marcus is. Lindsey's wife is very reminiscent of Darla, you wonder if Angel and Spike are thinking that when then they open the door. Gunn obviously wants to be punished. Illyria says 'We' are so weak?

    Know the face, different character; 7

    Parking garages; oh yeah


    Guantanamo Bay;

    Harmony has been told 'No torture' by Angel. Lorne is shocked when Angel reveals he left Gunn behind. The Wrath!

    Buffy characters on Angel; 17

    Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony. POSSIBLY The First Evil, Andrew.

    Questions and observations;

    Spike refers to Knightrider, he shouldn't have teased the Geeks! Spike asks what the collective name for the Angel gang is, we never quite decided, like AI and the Fang Gang personally. It's actually Spike who comes up with the idea of talking to Eve. Harmony in the title sequence, how great, MM in the show right from the pilot, now a regular. They talked about the Lorne Green idea before in Happy Anniverasry. Am I missing something about Wes' joke? The world without shrimp is referenced again, this time the world with it. Eve is the child of the senior partners but doesn't even know who or what they are? But surely Illyria does? Are all the inhabitants in the holding dimension prisoners? Do we ever see Gunn in his suit again? And he's shaved his head. Surely he must wear a suit for court? The partners obviously think a lot of Lindsey, keeping him alive to decide if he'll still be useful. What does 'blocking' mean? It's been 4 months since 'You're welcome'. Gunn actually comes across really well as the family man. Does Marcus represent the WB suits who cancelled Angel?

    Marks out of 10; 8/10 for the holding dimension stuff alone

  • Underneath

    Underneath was a perfect and classic episode of Angel. I really enjoyed watching this episode because there was classic Angel humor along with an interesting story. I thought the holding dimension Lindsey was trapped in was interesting and creepy. It was cool to learn more about Illyria and to see her interactions with Wesley. It was nice to see Angel challenge Gunn to bring him back into the fold, though he still feels guilty over his part in Fred's death. I also enjoyed the mysterious new Liason to the Senior Partners and the terror he struck into Eve, Lorne and Harmony was hilarious. I look forward to watching more!!!!!!!
  • "I walked worlds of torment.."

    Underneath is another excellent episode of Season 5 but unfortunately the secondary storyline is far more interesting than the main one and some parts can drag a bit.

    The main story of rescuing Lindsey from hell was OK but not amazing or anything. I'm not a fan on Lindsey, or Christian Kane for that matter, so I wasn't too pleased to see him again. Christian Kane just smirks far too much for me to like his acting and just sort of irritates me lots. I didn't really like the holding cells idea- the Senior Partners could easily have figured out a hell for Lindsey to go to in moments, so th holding cells are a bit redundant. I liked the idea of the getting their heart ripped out every day though. I liked Eve here- she's really growing on me. She's no Lilah or anythin but she's quite a good character. I enjoyed the team of her, Lorne and Harmony- they make for good laughs. Hamilton revealing that he isn't there to kill her but to make her sign over her immortality was good and a nice twist. I don't really know what to make of Hamilton though. I just LOVED the Wesley and Illyria scenes though. They were outstanding and Illyria's speeches are brilliant. I loved her talking about her past life and walking different worlds. I also LOVED the Fred/Wesley dreams sequence as well- it was wonderfully done and made me really appreciate and miss Fred. It's confusing- I love Fred but love Illyria too, so I can't choose! Also loved the rooftop scene - it was again brilliant and helped us get better insight into Illyria. Also, the line "You called me a smurf" made me laugh. Illyria's costume is still amazing.

    Underneath is a great episode with a brilliant secondary storyline. The revelation that the apocalypse is going on under Angel's nose is great and sets up the next 5 episodes nicely. It wasn't the best of S5 but not the worst- it made you think. Not to be missed, purely for the Illyria and Wesley scenes.
  • It's A Wonderful Day in Hell!

    Underneath-Hoping that Lindsay has information on the Senior Partners' ultimate plans, Angel, Spike and Gunn track him down in a bizarre and terrifying suburban hell. Meanwhile, a nearly invincible stranger sent by the Senior Partners, infiltrates Wolfram & Hart looking for Eve.

    After losing another loved one/soldier, Team Angel has pretty much scattered about. Angel is finding it just as hard to keep the fold when he is also blaming himself for Fred's death. But don't worry Angel, Spike is there to cheer you up...yep..Spike! After a few touching words to Gunn from Angel, Gunn comes back and sportin' his old gang wear. Glad to see Gunn going back to his roots yet still maturing with the events that have ocurred. But with all that's happened, what are the Senior Partners gonna do about it about and what have they been doing all this time?
    Well after a visiting Eve, who now looks a hot mess, Angel, Spike, and Gunn manage to find where Lindsey was taken by the SP and they decide to free him for information. I gotta say, the perfect family life/surburbia hell was great development. Especially when you see it for the first time and you're thinking, "WTF?" But it's really hilarious watching everything turn to hell like the mother and son busting out with guns and shooting everything in site. Even the milk man gets in on it. But it is creepy watching the events of this hell unfold, like the Basment torturer. The make-up people did a great job with that thing, ehw! But what's also great is how Gunn saves the day and takes Lindsey's place. Gunn has come a long way and his sacrifice was great character development. Also, the Wesley/Illyria scenes were wonderful. I loved the dream that Wesley had of Fred and Illyria is quite the complex character. She understands the world better than anyone yet she wonders why humanity has chosen to live this way. Illyria is force to live like a human because she is now searching for her purpose in the world like the rest of us.

    This episode also introduces Hamilton, the new liasion of the SPs since Eve lost her credibility. Adam Baldwin is great as the Terminator minus the sci-fi backstory and looks good in a suit. I loved when he put his fist through the security guard's chest, Eve, Lorne and Harmony screamed like little girls, lol. But of course, his unreliable and a new threat now that the Senior Partners sent him.

    The episode ends with Lindsey giving the gang some nuclear bomb of bad news. Turns out that the Senior Partners have been using the gang along. While they were busy trying to run Wolram and Hart, THE Apocalypse was busy right underneath. Which means, Angel better think of something quick or this will be the end of the world...for good this time, seriously? All and All, "Underneath" continues the final arc very well as our characters progress and new revelations unfold.
  • Lindsay has his own private hell.

    Angel and Spike seek out Eve(il) to see if they can get some more info on what the Senior Partners have planned. Eve(il) has been holed up in Lindsays apartment for protection. As Angel and Spike interrogate her, the protective markings on the walls disappear and someone is coming. Eve(il) is terrified and says she will tell them whatever she needs to, but she needs their protection. She tells the gang that they had someone who could have told them ANYTHING they needed to know about the Senior Partners but that they had let him get taken. Yup, Lindsay.
    The rest of this ep is spent getting Gunn out of bed and back with the gang. Then the gang (Spike, Angel, Gunn) go to hell (the burbs) and find Lindsay. Seems he is in some suburbian nightmare that he relives every day. He has a wife and son, but every day he gets sent to the cellar for a lightbulb and this hideous monster cuts his heart out. Long story short: They get Lindsay out but they have to leave someone behind to take his place. Gunn stays, because he considers it atonement. Lindsay also clues Angel in on something, the apocalypse has already begun and Angel is exactly where the Senior Partners wanted him to be. Oh yeah, we meet Hamilton, who is the new liason to the Senior Partners.
  • Lindsey in hell

    another pretty good one. this one is about the gang having to find linsey because he knows something. lindsey himself is in hell and having to live the nightmare all over again for the rest of his life. this episode introduced marcus who is an a hole but a cool one. much better than eve. the end was good as gunn stayed behind which makes the crew lose the second soldier.
    the episode was effective especially the illyria and wesley scenes that i appreciated a lot!
  • The final season continues & keeps getting more entertaining. Spoiler warning.

    What can I say about season 5? So far it has been brilliant & this episode keeps it up. The quality of the last six episodes has been amazingly high. In this episode Angel, Lorne & Spike convince Eve to share all of the information she knows about the senior partners with them. She says that Lindsay knows all of that information & he is stuck in hell. So what do Angel & company do? They go to hell to set free Lindsay. In the end they are successful, but they had to sacrifice someone. Gunn is left in hell so that Lindsay could escape. Overall a great episode with some awesome plot twists.
  • Exploring the nature of hell ...

    Spike and Angel discuss a number of types of hell.

    We've explored a few in the past with Angel.

    Pylea. A place that stripped away one's humanity and was organized in such a way as you toiled at a job you didn't seek, purchased by overseers you didn't choose, maintained in conditions you couldn't stand and unable to protest because it's just been barred from you.

    Cordy was in hell in Pylea. And by that definition, in "Rm w/A Vu" as well. Pylea was a hell dimension, but for Angel it was a paradise. There was a clear delineation of right and wrong, he could be in the sun, he could see his reflection. What made our plane of existence a hell of eternal penance for him -- the loss of his humanity, the lack of moral certitudes -- was in some degree restored to him there.

    It only became a hell for him when he could not control what also made him a demon.

    We witnessed his demon's hell in "Orpheus." The lack of volition, the ongoing witness to destruction that was not taking place, to the redemption that was, forced to remain confined to Angel's skull, with only the most limited expression of Angelus possible.

    How about Darla's hell? The soul she felt growing inside of her, the love it shared with her, the emptiness she knew was coming. A hell of imminence, an unrelenting ticking clock that this was going to be taken away. She couldn't experience the love inside her without confronting its fragility.

    Wesley's hell was similar. A realization, after so much loss and darkness, that true love and happiness was finally within his grasp, only to have it wrenched from him as he began to experience it.

    Spike's hell was a two-parter -- beyond the lost love of Dru, which we as humans can't entirely access, and the chip itself, which was a prison installed. With the soul he fought so hard for -- which he couldn't understand, being a demon -- (and I just right now got that what he was drawn to in Buffy must've been her demon infusion -- wild) -- he got to experience all the remorse Angel did for all of his past crimes and sins. But then he had to deal with the realization of crimes he'd committed while ensouled. Sure, he was brainwashed, but reflecting on these murders, he recognized his lack of control and opened his heart for the staking.

    Pavayne's hell was a bit more flowery, storytellingwise. He was desperately perched on the very mouth of destruction, and to maintain the volition he'd wrought for himself in his twisted evil madness, flung other lost souls into it as a kind of eternally insufficient appeasement. His reality became a hell Spike described as he was experiencing it, as straddling two edges of an ever-widening abyss with no end in sight.

    So in "Underneath," why his poet's brain was only able to come up with "fire hell" and "ice hell" -- expanded on by Angel with "toy poodles on parade hell" -- truly a horrific image -- is a bit of a mystery.


    Hell as discussed in this show is a dynamic place -- as heaven, if Buffy is to be understood correctly, is more static. Hell is a place of continuous, struggling effort as opposed to a place of completion, of rest.

    Lindsey's hell was one I think lots of people experience, in all reality. We wake up in the morning with our perfect, undemanding days with people we think we know. We form connections, we limit our perception to the people we come into contact with. We wave and smile and we get by. But in the privatemost basements of our lives our hearts are being ripped out by the sheer meaningless repetition of it all, the lack of direction, the traps we've laid so carefully for ourselves and in which we find ourselves ensnared.

    Hell is meaninglessness.

    Angel's meaningless meeting meaninglessness. That was a nice introduction to the episode -- Angel at an empty table. With Cordy and Fred both dead, that's where we were as fans as well. Wes was babysitting the Blue Meanie, Lorne was off someplace getting hammered, Gunn was still in recovery and Harmony and Spike were about as much help as Harmony and Spike ever were.

    Hell is meaninglessness.

    Gunn had a headful of legal knowledge that was useless to him. He'd been skating along blissfully unaware of the price he was paying for it, and now that it was there, he couldn't make himself use it. It was dead to him. There was no joy in it. Fred's smiling face was gone and he had demon languages and strategies.

    Hell is meaninglessness.

    Buffy felt at peace in her version of the Elysian fields. More to the point, she never felt like there was any action she needed to take. She felt warm and safe and loved, secure in the knowledge that everyone she loved was going to be OK.

    Her existence was a peace that she'd earned.

    Lindsey's sunny, bright and shining, seemingly perfect day was interrupted regularly by obligation -- meaningless in itself -- that ripped his chest open.

    Punishment for defiance. And a with a rule -- it can never exist as a null set. Someone had to relive that same glorious day every day or there'd be a tear in the universe.

    The basement was confrontational. The layers of illusion were torn away and the person in the basement was confronted with their crimes, with who they were.

    It's interesting that the hell dimension was designed to house a Japanese agent of W&H. An Asian punishment I'm aware of releases a convict to a normal, happy, potentially fulfilling life, with the nagging understanding in the back of his mind that one day, an executioner will step out from behind him and end his life without warning.

    This may be misremembered on my part, but in practice it consigns the convict to that basement, because hearts are not mystically restored, and every day is potentially one's last.

    Like a certain otherwise anonymous security guard who'd clearly been guilty of the crime of functioning in any capacity for W&H.

    As an introduction to Hamilton, the episode rocked. As discussed in the commentary, Hamilton did not have to play his character at all evil -- although Adam Baldwin said he'd have loved to play it more sinister. If you do an evil thing, you don't have to present yourself as evil. Hamilton arrived with an earthquake that shook Eve from her hiding place and ripped out a heart and threw Harmony across the room (YAY!) on his way to calmly serving Eve with her mortality papers.

    Angel (I think): You said you were gonna die!
    Eve: And now someday I will.

    This was a good move, storytellingwise. In a spinoff from a series all about the empowerment of women, the final showdown between Angel and the representative of the Senior Partners would've had him battling Eve, who we'd been suspecting for a while was no more mystical than a doily with a long shelf life. Angel smacking Sarah Thompson around wouldn't have been entirely satisfying. That's not to say it wouldn't have been scads of fun, but not //series finale// fun.

    Essentially, it would look like Angel beating up a little girl, and I don't think that's the image Joss wanted heading into that alleyway.

    It took Angel to spark Gunn out of one circle of hell -- a situation he had no voice in creating -- to one he could choose, a penance he could take on. Angel prompted Gunn to lead them to Eve, and Eve led them to Lindsey. And, knowing the rules, Gunn took on his punishment -- freeing them at the expense of his own well-being, taking on the literal pain of getting his heart ripped out to address the more metaphorical way he'd found himself in that situation.

    "Underneath" is not an especially satisfying episode. Angel already knows everything he learns from Lindsey -- that The Apocalypse is coming -- because he's already seen it in the visions he gained from Cordy.

    But it does open a window on the pain of loss, and of love.

    And on the nature of hell.
  • The One with the Perfect Suburban Hell

    I really enjoyed this episode. Both of the main storylines were well handled and there were some really memorable moments.

    Underneath has Angel, Spike and Gunn visiting Lindsey in a suburban hell and a mysterious, indestructible man infiltrating Wolfram & Hart, intent on killing Eve.

    The A-plot is brilliant. Even though the perfect suburbia in hell idea has been done to death in various guises on TV and in movies, it's still effective here and you actually feel sorry for Lindsey, who is desperately avoiding going down to the basement at the end of each day to get his heart ripped out by a massive monster. It's also fun how Lindsey's "wife and son" go completely psycho when Lindsey is free of his mind control and they turn up with machine guns.

    The B-plot was absolutely brilliant. The Terminator-esque Hamilton was truly sinister and the scene where he punches right through a Wolfram & Hart guard's chest is brilliantly gory. Plus, when Lorne, Harmony and Eve all scream at the exact same time, it makes for a hilarious image. Adam Baldwin (formerly of Joss Whedon's other series Firefly) was amazing as Hamilton and continues to be during the remainder of the season.

    I thought it was good of Gunn to stay in the hell dimension. Like many characters on Angel during the course of the series, he's trying to seek redemption. This time for inadvertently being responsible for Fred's death.

    Underneath is an extremely underrated episode which is probably so forgotten about as it is sandwiched in between two of the most memorable storylines from the final season: Fred's transformation into Illyria and Connor's return. Worth a watch.
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