Batman Beyond Forums

The WB (ended 2001)

Terrymcginnis vs D.grayson

  • Avatar of SupermanNYC

    SupermanNYC

    [41]Apr 12, 2006
    • member since: 01/27/06
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 18,647
    Supermeng wrote:
    You have to rememeber also that Terry was quite a good fighter before he ever met Batman. He grew up in a bad part of Gotham and probably had to fight all the time. He fought an entire gang of Jokerz without any training at all. Now eventually, they would have gotten him if he hadn't run into Bruce and gotten help, but the fact that he was good enough not to get killed instantly says that he has a kind of fighter's instinct already that he didn't need the formal training from Bruce to get (unlike, I'm guessing, Dick).
    HaHa, yeah I remember that too, so you sayin that he can kick Dick's butt? Yeah I gotta give that to him, he did hold his own. Then I like you said, sooner or later they would have gotten him.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Aldrius

    Aldrius

    [42]Apr 13, 2006
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,034
    Well, Dick had initial acrobat training... while that doesn't mean he'd be a great fighter it means he'd be athletic enough to hold his own.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kenneth_velez

    kenneth_velez

    [43]Apr 13, 2006
    • member since: 07/10/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 2,290
    That was young Richard that had acrobatic, when he was older he still had those skills but he also learned Hapkido and Judo from Bruno.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Aldrius

    Aldrius

    [44]Apr 18, 2006
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,034
    Er... Dick is to Richard. As Nick is to Nicholas.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kenneth_velez

    kenneth_velez

    [45]Apr 19, 2006
    • member since: 07/10/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 2,290
    Thats right.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SupermanNYC

    SupermanNYC

    [46]Apr 22, 2006
    • member since: 01/27/06
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 18,647
    kenneth_velez wrote:
    That was young Richard that had acrobatic, when he was older he still had those skills but he also learned Hapkido and Judo from Bruno.
    thats right kenny, I see you know your character's, I love it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RedsnGreens

    RedsnGreens

    [47]Jun 27, 2006
    • member since: 06/23/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 462
    good challenge. they're so similar. both proteges of the original dark knight. it'd be close but i'd go with terry b/c he's got natural talent and he can't rely too much on bruce since he's like 90 when he's training terry.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of delinquent2Duo

    delinquent2Duo

    [48]Oct 7, 2006
    • member since: 07/18/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 270
    Terry might just play dirty and use that to his advantage.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SupermanNYC

    SupermanNYC

    [49]Nov 3, 2006
    • member since: 01/27/06
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 18,647
    RedsnGreens wrote:
    good challenge. they're so similar. both proteges of the original dark knight. it'd be close but i'd go with terry b/c he's got natural talent and he can't rely too much on bruce since he's like 90 when he's training terry.
    Oh, I don't know about that one, I mean when you think about it, Dick was trained by Bruce. Terry comes much later and now Bruce is a old man.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kenneth_velez

    kenneth_velez

    [50]Nov 7, 2006
    • member since: 07/10/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 2,290
    But terry was still being trained by Bruces old adviseries and Terry recieved some training from the students of the masters that taught Bruce.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of green_arrow92

    green_arrow92

    [51]Nov 12, 2006
    • member since: 09/17/06
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 557
    Terry has a superpowered batsuit. but I still think dick grayson could put a whoopin on him.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of weapon_x_bog

    weapon_x_bog

    [52]Dec 2, 2007
    • member since: 10/10/07
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 30

    I'd say that Terry is at a fair dissatvantage if he were to fight Dick Grayson. Dick is very strong. well trained, better prepared, more experienced in hand to hand and weapon fighting while Terry relies too much on his suit. In the episode when Terry has to fight off his suit we see how sloppy he is without it. Hell, HE CAN'T EVEN THROW THE BATARANG !!! Even the new Robin(Tim Drake) at the age of 12-14 threw a mean batarang (You can see that in the second episode of Batman Gotham Knights). I doubt Terry was as much trained as Barbara or Dick. On BGK you can clearly see how tough they were trained while on BB Terry would just beat up some punks....

    That beeing said Terry, no offence, but he'd loose. Even with his overpowered batsuit he'd still lose. You can see how much the "new" Joker from Joker Returns pummeled him...and without fancy stuff.

    Batman just used the suit to pump him up back to his prime. So you can imagine exactly how powerfull Barbara, Dick and Tim were!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [53]Apr 24, 2008
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 7,885
    I know this is a fairly old topic but After reading everyones posts it seems everyone is comparing Terry in his first years as Batman to a full trained and expereniced Grayson. After seeing Epilouge again I'm going to say Terry got some intense training. We saw Bruce send him to teacher to improve his fighting in one episode, I don't think it's hard to believe that after high school he send Terry around the world to recieve training, so he wouldn't relay on the suit as much anymore. I don't think Dick would beat Epilouge Terry as easily as everyone says. He probably still win but it would be a closer fight.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PrescitedEntity

    PrescitedEntity

    [54]Jan 21, 2009
    • member since: 10/02/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 124
    Bomping an old thread because I could not refuse.

    kenneth_velez wrote:
    That was young Richard that had acrobatic, when he was older he still had those skills but he also learned Hapkido and Judo from Bruno.


    I have boundless respect for the martial arts, I really do.

    However, in a practical, throw-down fight, street brawling skills can be equally useful, because martial arts tend to 1) emphasize the form and structure of attack and defense (when you do this, I do that), 2) focus on rapid, calculated, precise attacks, and 3) train auto-reflexive movements. Street brawling, meanwhile, is loose, adaptive, go-it-with-your-often-very-correct-instincts fighting. The two both have their benefits, and you see an amalgamate at work in army field training. Certainly, Grayson has taken down some lackeys in his tenure, but lackeys =/= a fairly lithe street brawler with some training from the same guy who trained Dick. It's not going to be an instant win, if for no other reason the fact that Terry's been more than decently adaptive and innovative, and can be rather unorthodox when he's disadvantaged, something I don't think Grayson would be instantly expectant of.

    Obviously, on even footing, Grayson would still win (though IMO, it wouldn't be easy, like others seem to think) - though, if we're talking Epilogue Terry, then I'd be less sure of that. A few posters mentioned that Dick's intelligence would give him a distinct advantage over Terry, but I'm not so sure that'd be the case. Grayson's intellect comes mainly from spending a long time under the strict guidance of Bruce. Terry, by Epilogue, will most likely have at least some of this. Furthermore, in watching some of the episodes, I remembered thinking that Bruce's less rigorous training of Terry when it came to smarts made sense because it seemed Bruce was waiting for Terry to deduce things for himself - that is, to innovate and reason around on his own (and is part, I suspect, of why Bruce allowed Terry to take up the mantle). He got frustrated more often because Terry would sometimes, if not somewhat often, fail, but he seemed to put more stock in Terry's ability to reason (which Terry did, often without prompting). Intellect, IMO, is not going to be an issue, because it'd be a match of the structured against the creative, to take it to extremes. I'd say it'd be even, with a tilt based on environs.

    With suit, Terry would win. Suit = win. XD
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of A_Kefka

    A_Kefka

    [55]Jan 23, 2009
    • member since: 09/07/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 635

    Dick's training might have been formal, but years of fighting criminals would have taught him to incorporate any useful street brawling techniques. I'd say Dick last time we saw him was pretty close to his peak ability, and he'd take Terry from the series down easy. If we jump to the timeframe of Epilogue, Terry has much more expirience and training, and I'm betting that's a much more even match. I'd still go with Dick though. Lifelong training is a huge advantage, and he was trained to work a trapeze from the time he could hold on to one, then learned many different fighting styles.

    Also, formal training isn't always so rigid, especially when you begin learning multiple styles and mixing them for the best results. Being adaptable to any situation was a key point of Bruce Lee's philosophy when it came not only to fighting but to anything in life. and he is probably one of the greatest fighters the world has ever seen.

    Edited on 01/23/2009 9:30pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nepheliad

    nepheliad

    [56]Jan 25, 2009
    • member since: 09/16/05
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 3
    A_Kefka wrote:

    Dick's training might have been formal, but years of fighting criminals would have taught him to incorporate any useful street brawling techniques.
    I don't disagree, but it's not his strong suit, I wager, whereas it's the focus of Terry's strength in fighting.

    A_Kefka wrote:
    I'd say Dick last time we saw him was pretty close to his peak ability, and he'd take Terry from the series down easy.
    Justify? I mean, I fully agree that Dick is the definite winner, but I wouldn't say it's that it be an overwhelmingly easy victory.

    A_Kefka wrote:
    If we jump to the timeframe of Epilogue, Terry has much more expirience and training, and I'm betting that's a much more even match. I'd still go with Dick though. Lifelong training is a huge advantage, and he was trained to work a trapeze from the time he could hold on to one, then learned many different fighting styles.

    I'd still go with Dick, too, for the simple reason of having had more time to condition himself from a younger age, which can make a huge difference. Thing is, I don't agree with people's justification about martial arts. BTW, do we know what he learned in DCAU? Because IMO, comic Nightwing's power far surpasses DCAU Nightwing's, and I get the feeling that may be distorting the picture a bit.

    A_Kefka wrote:
    Also, formal training isn't always so rigid, especially when you begin learning multiple styles and mixing them for the best results. Being adaptable to any situation was a key point of Bruce Lee's philosophy when it came not only to fighting but to anything in life. and he is probably one of the greatest fighters the world has ever seen.

    Bruce Lee is the man, and Jeet Kune Do is the bomb - definitely one of the best rounded martial art styles out there. However, generally, martial arts are often fairly rigid, though there's variance from person to person and style to style. Mixed martial arts is definitely more adaptable, though, so I'll concede that point.

    In case it wasn't clear, I favor Dick in both cases, the earlier far more so than the later - I'm simply saying not to make it seem like it'd be an immensely easy battle, because of the above. It also depends on turf when it comes to Epilogue Terry, for that matter, but it's doubtless that Dick is second only to Bruce in DCAU in raw skill.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of seto1

    seto1

    [57]Feb 5, 2009
    • member since: 02/13/07
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 2,085
    i would put my money on terry simply because he is so unpredictable and thatcould give him the edge.We saw in the return of the joker that he can chance tactics and using an oppenents strenghts against him,i know robin could do that also however terry has proven to be to be much better at it .
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.