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Are his actions warranted? (spoilers)

  • Avatar of Moviemaster2222

    Moviemaster2222

    [1]Jan 24, 2009
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    In the latest episode and the newest trailer it is revealed that Gaeta is going to muntiny against Adama. My question is, being objective about the situation and putting yourself in his position do you think what Gaeta is doing is right and or neccesary?

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  • Avatar of vstherevolution

    vstherevolution

    [2]Jan 24, 2009
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    I think that after surviving the initial attack on the Colonies, being swindled into following Baltar and being labeled a traitor for some time, losing his leg at the hands of a Cylon, after watching everyone else he cared about lose all their resolve and hope after finding Earth, and mainly after the death of Dee, he's just had enough. His soul has been weakened and he refuses to take anymore, so in an effort to prevent everyone else he's fought for for all those years from plummeting deeper into imminent despair, he tries to rally them back together against the only enemy they have left - someone they can blame so their despair doesn't eat them alive. I believe he's clinging onto the one thing he has left to keep him afloat and that's anger towards those who he can try to blame for everything that's transpired. I think he has great reason to be frustrated, however I don't agree with what he's doing because I don't believe he's looking at the big picture. I think his ideas will cause far more human deaths than if they just remained allied with the Cylons, and only after this alliance with Zarek will Gaeta truly become the traitor everyone thought he was under Baltar.

    Somewhere down the line I think we'll discover that Earth was actually nuked by a group of humans. That the Cylon attack on New Caprica was partially a plan to exact revenge, and partially a plan to lead the Cylons and Humans to a future truce so the cycle of civilization destruction between these two races wouldn't happen again. If Gaeta were to realize the meaning of something like this, that humanity is capable of annihilating a race too, and is capable of just as much evil and hypocrisy as the Cylons, maybe he'll appeal to reason, stop in his tracks and realize what he's becoming, but my guess is it'll be too late.
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    scififan12921

    [3]Jan 24, 2009
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    I don't agree with what he's doing but I think it's been building for a while. He started doubting back when Starbuck returned, he was skeptical when working with her on the maps in CIC( I think it was in "He that believeth in me" but not sure). I remember being surprised when he was on the Demetrius with her.
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  • Avatar of blackclown98

    blackclown98

    [4]Jan 26, 2009
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    Bill Adama is the ultimate dictator. Whenever things didn't turn the way he wanted, the military was called in to make sure the Admiral got his way. Now he went too far and the military turned on him. Gaeta's mutiny is way overdue and, I hope, we'll see the end of Adama reign sooner rather than later.
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  • Avatar of Moviemaster2222

    Moviemaster2222

    [5]Jan 26, 2009
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    I realized I never actually voiced my own opinion.

    I believe that Gaeta is doing this because as has been said he is looking for someone to blame and maybe even hate, and now that some of the cylons have become allies he is setting his sights on Adama's regime.

    It was said that Adama is a dictator who uses his position to get his way, if he really was a dictator we would all know it, he has let alot of things slide that as a military official he would have dealt with in a way permitted to him in times of war or emergency.
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  • Avatar of blackclown98

    blackclown98

    [6]Jan 26, 2009
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    Moviemaster2222 wrote:
    he has let alot of things slide

    It's a very basic managing technique - Adama lets people get away with small, insignificant infractions (the black market), so that he can tighten the leash on them when more important issues arise.

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    jezzasparky

    [7]Jan 28, 2009
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    Moviemaster2222 wrote:
    It was said that Adama is a dictator who uses his position to get his way, if he really was a dictator we would all know it, he has let alot of things slide that as a military official he would have dealt with in a way permitted to him in times of war or emergency.

    Agreed - He's hardly Draconian!

    Compare how he has dealt with the civillian fleet with Admiral Cain's actions!

    I think it's unjustified - yes Adama has made some dodgy calls in the past but given the circumstances he hasn't done that bad a job really.

    I think this will tear the fleet apart.

    Ashas happened throughout history - people are unhappy so they are scapegoating their leaders - it won't solve their problems though!

    Also - I was annoyed at how conveniently Gaeta forgot about Anders, Tigh and Chief leading the resistance and coordinating with Adama to get them off that rock!

    Edited on 01/28/2009 1:46am
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  • Avatar of Kondix

    Kondix

    [8]Jan 28, 2009
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    It is now hard to say who is right and who is wrong, becouse we haven't seen much of the civilian fleet.. how they struggle, how they live through this whole journey, how their civil rights got smaller and smaller.

    We got only the story of the militaire, we only got their point of view, so we tend to like them more... but what if they were and still are wrong... they did bend some rules quit seriously. I think THE PEOPLE are right to look for change in leadership... the only thing is, that to do this NOW is plain stupid... they will all die by Cavil's forces when the fleet divides... they will. They came so far, becouse they worked together... this time, this mutiny feels a little bit like the point of no return - I don't believe they are going to "bring the family back together"!
    Edited on 01/28/2009 3:33am
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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [9]Jan 28, 2009
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    I think alot of it is that he won't accept that the he made some bad choices such as continuing to support Baltar even after it was apparent that he was just doing what the cylons told him to do on new caprica. Yes he did provide the resistance with infromation, but it is clear he still tried to support Baltar at the same time, maybe he was trying to force him to think for himself maybee not. So instead he places the blame for what happened on everyone else rather than admiting he too is partly to blame for what happened. IF i remember correctly he is more to blame for Baltar becoming president that anyone else because he decided to tell Adama that the election had been riggedm and force that issue which lead to everything else, remember Adama did confront rosylen about it (not something a dicator would do). So i think this really about Geata not wanting to admit that he like everybody else has made mistakes, but rather he thinks that he is the only one who is really right deep down, and because of that he can't admit he is just as responsible for what has happend as everyone he is blaming for things beening the way they are at this point

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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [10]Jan 28, 2009
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    I mentioned this on the episode thread, but who will lead the military if the coup Geata's planning succeeds. The Adamas will be out, Tigh and Tyrol will probably be airlocked or at least kicked out, Helo will be on Adama's side so he wont be trusted and wouldn't take command anyway, Starbuck is probably trusted less than Tigh at this point, so who is left with legitimate military command experience? Geata? I seriously doubt he can lead the military, especially since I still think most of the regular military personnel will side with the Admiral. Whether his decisions have been right or wrong he has alway been an undeniably great leader of men, and I don't see that changing. Geata would be a puppet of Zarek. Can you imagine what would boil down to Admiral/President Zarek. Makes me sick just thinking about it. If he succeeds in his coup Geata will end up creating the dictatorship he believes he is stopping. The whole military dictatorship just doesn't exist. Adama is the equivalent of the Allied Supreme Commander in WW2 or Washington in the Revolution, and in that position he can do whatever the frak he wants. To be honest I'm surprised the military hasn't been MORE involved with civilian activities. In his position I would have done what Tigh did, martial law the first time something went wrong. If he had abused his power by controlling every aspect of civilian life and become a true dictator I could agree with a coup, but he hasn't. The reason everything has held together to this point is the agreement Roslin and Adama made in the beginning, to separate the military and civilian aspects of the government.

    What it boils down to is Geata not being able to coupe with what has happaned. He's always been weak willed and unable to get past being slighted. He lied under oath during Baltar's trial for revenge, as if stabbing him in the neck wasn't enough. Now he's leading a mutinay because life sucks and it's not going to be happily ever after, after all. His anger and mistrust has made it so he can't see that they wont survive without Cylon help. The only problem is that in his situation I would be just as angry. He watched most of human civilization be destroyed, did the noble thing by reporting the voter fraud only to be rewarded with being lied to by Blatar and being labeled a traitor. He almost was killed for a crime he didn't commit, got his leg blown off, but finally reached what he thought was the promised land. Then it turns out that it was just as nuked as the place he left, and was actually populated by the same beings that four years ago tried to destroy the human race. And then just for fun one of his best friends couldn't take it and killed herself, and now the leaders want to collaborate with the former enemy. I don't know about you but for me that would have been enough. Anyone would snap at that point. So while I don't agree with his reasoning of methods I can understand that he has been pushed over the edge.

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  • Avatar of mfirefly10

    mfirefly10

    [11]Jan 29, 2009
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    While I am undoubtedly on Adama's side, I can understand where Gaeta is coming from. After all, he has plenty of reasons for not trusting the cylons. After the genocide and New Caprica, Gaeta probably had his doubts about trusting the cylons. Then he's almost airlocked for collaborating with them when he was actually a double agent for the resistance and 2 of his accusors turned out to be cylons. He's then shot by a cylon (one of the same who almost airlocked him before) and loses his leg. And let's not forget the events of the webisodes, for those who saw them. So I can understand he the guy might be inclined to look for some new leadership...However...Zarek is not to be trusted. The man may have some valid points but they're all moot since he's been against the Roslin/Adama leadership from the very beginning and he's done everything in his power to undermine them at every turn.

    As much as I dislike Gaeta's actions, I still love the character. Just like with Boomer, they've made choices I don't agree with but I can understand their reasons for making them...I hope we see more of Boomer when Cavil's forces arrive.

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  • Avatar of Bionetic

    Bionetic

    [12]Jan 30, 2009
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    Well i think today's episode pretty much has pointed out that the fleet can't survive without the Cylons. So playing the devils advocate, I'm gonna side with Gaeta. While the fleet can't survive without the Cylon's, the underlying theme of the whole rebellion is that you can't trust Cylons. This is the primary motivation behind Gaeta's insurrection as pointed out in the webisodes. His fears are more then legitimate. Gaeta was open to trusting the Cylons like Adama, but getting fraked the way he did in the webisodes reminded him of how sneaky Cylons are. I mean they want to install Cylon technology on every one's ship. Remember the Colonies were massacred because the Cylons hacked into the Colonial network. As Tyrol pointed out, the people of the colonies don't really know how cylon tech works. The Toasters they are allied with on the baseships could easily use some 'unknown' technological variable to hold the fleet hostage after the FTL drives are installed. Essentially they could use their trust to take over the fleet. I mean isn't that what they do? While Gaeta's revolution is messy, so was the American Revolutionary war. Revolutions are messy, but they can turn out for the better. Whose to say the direction Gaeta is taking the fleet isn't as sound as Adama's direction, if not more so. The only reason we side with Adama is because the main characters we know and love are siding with him. And i think most of us assume that the last thing the writers would do is make Admiral Adama be wrong. But at the same time, isn't that what the writers do that makes BSG so great. BSG does the unthinkable. The uncomfortable situations that other shows shy away from, this show embraces with a passion. Remember that BSG isn't the ideal world like Stargate where the good guys always turn out to be right. So in the end, this show could very well make Gaeta be in the right. On a side note, unfortunately Gaeta has a really bad track record when it comes to making political decisions. I'm sure this last season won't be the exception. And for those who think Admiral Adama is a dictator, when compared to Admiral Kain, Adama is a p*ssycat.
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    tribalchic

    [13]Jan 31, 2009
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    vstherevolution wrote:
    I think that after surviving the initial attack on the Colonies, being swindled into following Baltar and being labeled a traitor for some time, losing his leg at the hands of a Cylon, after watching everyone else he cared about lose all their resolve and hope after finding Earth, and mainly after the death of Dee, he's just had enough. His soul has been weakened and he refuses to take anymore, so in an effort to prevent everyone else he's fought for for all those years from plummeting deeper into imminent despair, he tries to rally them back together against the only enemy they have left - someone they can blame so their despair doesn't eat them alive. I believe he's clinging onto the one thing he has left to keep him afloat and that's anger towards those who he can try to blame for everything that's transpired. I think he has great reason to be frustrated, however I don't agree with what he's doing because I don't believe he's looking at the big picture. I think his ideas will cause far more human deaths than if they just remained allied with the Cylons, and only after this alliance with Zarek will Gaeta truly become the traitor everyone thought he was under Baltar. Somewhere down the line I think we'll discover that Earth was actually nuked by a group of humans. That the Cylon attack on New Caprica was partially a plan to exact revenge, and partially a plan to lead the Cylons and Humans to a future truce so the cycle of civilization destruction between these two races wouldn't happen again. If Gaeta were to realize the meaning of something like this, that humanity is capable of annihilating a race too, and is capable of just as much evil and hypocrisy as the Cylons, maybe he'll appeal to reason, stop in his tracks and realize what he's becoming, but my guess is it'll be too late.

    you summed up what I was going to say perfectly.

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    martymcflyjb

    [14]Feb 1, 2009
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    I love that this show raises such complex issues. With "Collaborators", we had a very controversial, very complex situation and I ultimately felt that Tigh, Starbuck, Tyrol, and the others involved were very much in the wrong.

    In this case, I agree with the majority that it's not black and white--Adama's not perfect, and Gaeta's position is understandable and believable, but he is WRONG. His declaration that Adama has committed treason is completely unfounded, even if you believe Adama's made fatal decisions. He's foolish to trust Zarek and he has no regard for the fate of the fleet if he thinks they are safer with him and Zarek in charge, not to mention all the lives lost in the mutiny struggle.

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    darth_mage

    [15]Feb 2, 2009
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    If they really were going to hold the fleet hostage, as someone as suggested they might, there is no way they would have asked for representation on the Quorum. they would have just given the technology freely. not only that but the survival of both the humans and rebel cylons depends on them working together, without the FTL drives humans will die on their ships when they run out of supplies, without humans the cylons will be wide open to an attack by the rest of their race.

    To be honest though I've got a feeling that this rebellion is going nowhere, one of the prophecies in the scrolls or by one of the hybrids i can't remember which has said that this has all happened before and will happen again. The 13 tribes will form a new world that will become like the old Kobol, after some time they'll separate make their own Cylons again and get killed/exiled from their homes and the whole thing happens again.
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    guyroy1971

    [16]Feb 2, 2009
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    the best thing about this show is the characters all feel their actions are warranted. This is not a show with "good guys" and "bad guys". I remember last season when they put baltar under drugs to get at the truth of whether he was a traitor Adama stated to Laura you will never get him to think of himself as wrong, he feels he is the victim. Even Kain's actions were warranted in her mind. The cylons were not "people" to her and you could abuse them all you wanted. They were the enemy and she felt Adama was stupid for saying otherwise. She sentenced Tyrol and Helo to death, but they killed a superior officer in a time of war, so she felt it was certainly warranted. Everyone thinks she was evil, but in her point of view she was acting rightly.

    That being said, I don't think Gaeta has a plan as to who takes over, etc... its just blind fury of having to collaborate with the cylons. They took everything from them and they are the enemy. It would be a waste of time trying to "reason" the pros and cons of joining up with the cylons. He doesn't care anymore. The scenes where he hangs up on Baltar showed that. I believe the character is at a point where if he were starving and cylons had the only food he's rather starve.

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    xanderfi

    [17]Feb 2, 2009
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    One of the things I find so unbelievable about all of this is the fact that Adama did his job. They found Earth. By a twist of cruel fate it turns out the earth was nuked and is uninhabitable. As we saw with D this definately has devistating consequences but this was in no way Adama's fault. The only option they have left, besides completely giving up, is to pool their resouces with the Rebel Cylons in order to survive. They have better technology. It's a simple as that. Gaeta has basically become a Racist(as we would term him) and identifies the Cylons as the target of his hate. I feel he's dead wrong for going against Adama. Survival is our most basic instinct and I find it awkward that so many would fight their instincts based on their principles. Not only that, but now Zarek and Gaeta have forced Adama's hand to make probably the most difficult decision of his career. Now he has to figure out what to do with the insurgents trying to overthrow the current government. Gaeta not only spat in the face of everything he swore to protect, but also sentenced many others to an uncertain fate, most probably death. All of that blood will be on Zarek and Gaeta's hands. Not something I would want on my conscience.
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    scififan12921

    [18]Feb 2, 2009
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    I said earlier I think Gaeta is wrong. I haven't changed my mind on that but I agree with the post that says from his perspective he's right. I'm not sure if he's as commited to this as he first was. He did let Adama live, which Zarek wasn't happy about. There's another twist coming and I think it will involve Cavil turning up at the worst possible moment.

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    martymcflyjb

    [19]Feb 2, 2009
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    Gaeta is doing what he thinks is right. Zarek is just using him to gain power. Zarek has no principles.
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    scififan12921

    [20]Feb 3, 2009
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    martymcflyjb wrote:
    Gaeta is doing what he thinks is right. Zarek is just using him to gain power. Zarek has no principles.


    very, very true. I think Gaeta is going to regret this alliance even more than working for Baltar. I also think he's not going to be able to get himself out of this one. Adama and Roslin had shown they could be swayed in the past, Gaeta could've taken a better route. Although if he had we wouldn't have had "the Oath", which was well worth it!
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