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Syfy (ended 2010)

BSG Reflections: A new re-watch thread?

  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [1]Mar 9, 2009
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    EDIT 06/05/09

    **** Attention: The following thread does contain spoilers from the entire BSG series. If you are a newcomer to the show, please feel free to post views in specific episode threads... ( see guidline thread). This thread is soley for the purpose of reflecting, and re-examining elements of past seasons with regard to the revelations of the last seasons of the show. Please do not read these posts if you are new to the show. Thanks. Ted. ****

    Well, now that our favorite show is finally winding down, I've been starting to re-watch the episodes from the beginning. I'm struck by how different it plays, scenes and dialalogue, since certain mysteries were answered (Earth, The Final Five) , and the characters have gone through so much (even Boomer, Caprica Six).. that it almost plays like a whole new show.. and that's coming from someone who's already watched certain episodes a few times already.

    Anyway, since we still have major answers, and a resolution in a couple weeks, I decided to stop re-watching, and wait until the series ends, or until I see Caprica's pilot. Either way, even though I don't have much time on my hands, I will find time to re-watch it in order.

    Then, something 123home123 said in the Daybreak thread struck me. We are all very busy, and don't have all that much time on our hands (then again, unfortunately, some may have too much, due to current circumstances).. but wouldn't it be a great way to keep the forum alive, after the series ends.. to start a new re-watch thread.

    It's ultimately up to 123home123, but my idea was it could be a general discussion thread, instead of one thread per episode, but that's up to the editor. Instead , we could discuss lines and diologue, character action, and scenes which perhaps have a new light, or seem different since everything has been revealed and laid out in the open, after the finale.

    Example.. Tigh and Ellen, Boomer, Caprica Six, heck.. look at Doral's scenes as a simple public relations man at the beginning. It would be a long running thread.

    Just an idea.. but I think it would be fun.

    And I also wanted to say that it's been really fun, even though my posts have been sporadic, talking with you guys, and listening to your theories, and speculations. I've never seen a show generate this much discussion, and intelligent thought in my life. Let's find ways to keep it going.

    What do you guys think.. and you, 123home123?

    Salute, and thanks!

    EDIT: 03/22 I'm going to add one more anectdote to keep the thread alive so someone sees it. Don't worry.. I won't keep doing it, I know it's against the rules. With all the different threads going on in light of the Daybreak finale, this one is lagging off with the current of the tide. But I have a feeling if people see it, they'll want to check it out, and join in .

    It doesn't have to follow the episodes in order, per se.. just name the episode you're referring to, and list your reflections on it (scene, lines, motivation, etc) which somehow seem different now that the story has come full circle.

    Ted

    Edited on 06/05/2009 8:30pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [2]Mar 9, 2009
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    Well, any BSG-related discussion is always acceptable and welcome on the forum. We've had rewatch threads in the past but interest in them died out after a few weeks. People can always revive any specific episode thread at any time. It's a simple matter to locate any of those old threads. Just go to the pinned GUIDELINES thread and look up the hyperlinked index of discussion threads. Just click on the episode title and you'll go directly to the discussion thread for that episode.

    If you have any insights or thoughts that don't fit into a specific episode discussion thread, feel free to bring that up too. I'm not sure if we need a formal process since I don't foresee as much traffic on the forum by the time the summer rolls around. If we get a lot of posts once the Caprica series starts up, we can re-examine all of this. But the bottom line is that if anyone wants to discuss any element of the show, feel free to post on the forum, whether it's on an existing thread or on a new thread where appropriate. I'd only ask that people respect the guidelines about spoilers. This means no spoilers in thread titles. And if you post in an episode discussion thread, don't post spoilers from later episodes. For example, if you are posting in a thread for a Season 1 episode, don't post information from Season 2, 3 or 4. This helps new fans who may only see the show for the first time on DVD or through Amazon Unbox or iTunes downloads. They can post on the discussion threads without accidentally learning about spoilers from later episodes and seasons.
    Edited on 03/09/2009 9:34am
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [3]Mar 11, 2009
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    Ok.. so I'm going to ask for more opinions.. so we'll just wait to see who catches this thead, and comments before the show ends. Again, this will be a thread to comment on while/if you re-watch the show to make little comments.. from any episode, about lines/scenes that seem to take on a new light now that we know, or will know, the whole truth when the show ends.

    For example, during the Mini-series, it's a real trip just watching the expressions on Doral's face while he listenes to Adama rant to Laura about the computer system, or while Adama gives his speech. Matthew Bennett clearly knows his punchline for the character at the end of the story, at least.. that's how I read his expressions.

    I think this will be fun. Giving us almost an opportunity to watch the show in a whole new way.

    I'm sure "The Plan" and Caprica will shed new lights as well when we see them.

    I'll throw in a harmless plug for this in a couple other threads.

    -- Ted

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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [4]Mar 22, 2009
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    Also, in the miniseries.. in the remarkable one long shot take around the Galactica, seeing Cally, Prosna, and Socinus in their first scene. All dead now. I for one, was always dissapointed none of the flashbacks we've seen have never featured Prosna.. who had so little screen time before he died so quickly. He was the one who found that cherished picture of Adama, and his two very young sons, and who died a hero sheilding Cally from certain death during that first attack.

    Edited on 06/05/2009 8:32pm
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  • Avatar of CharanJ

    CharanJ

    [5]Mar 24, 2009
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    Long-time lurker emerging from the mists here. Thanks for making this thread, sunshine -- it would be cumbersome to go through individual episode threads to see what we see this time around, that being all the little things that tie them all together.

    I rewatched the lot, timing it so that I almost slid straight into 'Daybreak'. The first thing I noticed was that episodes that got fairly slammed during their first run have new significance now. Yes, I'm looking at you, 'Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down'. I actually really enjoyed that episode the first time and, given certain revelations post-season 4, naturally enjoy it even more now. Whether it was a throwaway episode that later got tapped to create the biggest Chekhov's Gun I've seen in a long time or was cleverly inserted to distract us is almost irrelevant. Watching the Father and Mother of all Cylons act so HUMAN is the perfect prophetic scene for everything that's coming.

    Another throwaway/stand-alone episode, 'Dirty Hands', gave major poignancy to Baltar's very last line in the series. When the not-so-good Doctor slowly reveals his true accent, again, second-time around you realise just how much that means.

    Tyrol's suicide nightmares, Tigh's torture (he loses his right eye! Watch what he does to Ellen's picture in the mini-series -- moment of creative foreshadowing genius), Ellen's relationship with Cavil...it's all so much sharper now. In fact, with it all so fresh in my mind, the only thing that bugs me is the glowing spine, and that's a pretty minor gripe. Okay, that and unresolved Leoben. But I didn't really notice his absence in the finale first-time, so maybe RDM took a gamble there and won.

    This show, more than any other I've seen and rewatched, earns its place as a 'classic' if only because it's so much more rewarding on subsequent viewings. I hated it for years -- honestly. I saw a random episode of the first season and was so stupidly lost. When I saw the mini-series (shamefully sold separately here in Australia), I realised my mistake: it was like starting a well-written book at chapter 2. My standards for TV shows immediately raced to catch up. I wanted to rewatch s1 as soon as it was done, but not as much as I needed to see s2. Same thing for the rest.

    Now it's done, I think people are going to be thrilled with just how much of a payoff it is to go back, to realise how much of the mini-series affected all four seasons.

    There's something undeniably well-crafted in a long (epic) story where you can still see the beginning even at the end, but not without acknowledging just how far things have come. It's a joy to see the Final Five placed exactly where they need to be; to revel in Cavil's gleeful, sadistic cameos; and maybe even come to see the differences between Kara Thrace as 'Starbuck' and Kara Thrace as the 'Harbinger of Death'. That last one, of course, I've yet to ascertain, for obvious reasons.

    I hope this thread thrives, because BSG is a great,exciting, bumpy, jarring ride the first time -- the second time, you're ready. You know what to look for, and are gobfrakked when you see it. I'll use EJO's adjective for the finale for the entire series as a rewatch: sublime.

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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [6]Mar 24, 2009
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    Hi, CharanJ.. and welcome!

    Yeah.. I've been re-watching like crazy since before the finale. Since the finale, it's gotten worse, and I'm driving my wife crazy. She says she needs a break, and I'm verging on taking ll the joy out of the show. Guess I am, I'm sort of obsessed. I have a very addictive personality, Lol.

    Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down was a frustrating point for me in the show. After "Flesh and Bone".. my cable was shut off, and I was thinking I was missing out on some serious "Adama Is A Cylon" drama and mystery. They fooled me with this lighthearted entry. Not to mention, I was one of those "Kill Ellen" fans. She was sooo annoying.

    I've since warmed to it a lot , in part, of course to the revelations of "No Exit". It's hysterical and enlightning to watch Ellen in her first episode. Kate is a truly wonderful actress, and quite a comedic actress. What a pleasure it was to find her putting a new spin on the character as the mother of all Cylons

    One thing that still burns me about her character. In "Colonial Day", the only thing I can come to the conclusion of, is that she killed Vallance. Tigh claims the only people who knew where Vallence was being held were " Two marines, and the people in this room" (Adama, Lee, Kara, and Saul). Since we all know Saul blabs everything to his wife, probably in a drunken stuper after she badgers him into it.. the logical assumption is that the killer IS Ellen.

    But, even with her true identity and memories repressed, would one of the Final Five, who convinced the centurians to end the first war and stop the killing.. kill someone for Zarek in return for a weekend in a luxury suite?

    I think this was one of the pitfalls of writing character traits for a show so young, and with so much yet to come. Obviously.. 1. there was not even a glint of Ellen's identity in the writers mind yet , so back then.. it was Ellen, although open ended the mystery was.. and 2. It's impossible to belive there would be anything like a luxury suite existing under these circumstances. Now that Ellen IS one of theFive, I think that one's a boner Ron wishes they had never come up with. I choose to think the obvious alternative to make it fit.

    1. Zarrek killed Vallence himself, and gave Ellen the suite in return for an Earth moving frack.He's dead now, so blame him, Gods dammit! He was certainly capable.

    2. The "Luxury Suite aboard the Rising Star" was a carry-over reference from the 1978 BSG series. They through in those from time to time every so often in Season One, I think to appease fans of the old (IE: Boxey, etc). I don't think they've mentioned The Rising Star since, actually.

    By the way, am I the only one who wanted Boxey to die a violent, bloody onscreen death? Have you guys seen any of his many cut scenes? What a punk.

    Dirty Hands, along with Black Market was my favorite of the so called filler episodes . And yeah.. I was thinking of the scene in the cell during the finale! My favorite Gaius moment of all time, and the one when he was at his most naked and genuine, truly a rare moment for the character. I loved seeing his Father in the finale, and the line at the end.. "You know, I know about farming", as he genuinely weeps in Caprica's arms. What a great close out for a character whom I always thought would end up mad, and in command of a basestar ( yes, I was a fan of the original). When he was brought aboard the basestar in the 3rd season.. I thought.. "Oh, please tell me we're not going there!" Thank God I was wrong!

    Leoben's absence in the final 9 episodes is a puzzle. Obviously Callum was doing Californication, but the writers had a responsibility to explain this for the character. How many wanted to see him again after being scared out of his wits seeing Kara's body. How cool was that? Mr ominus and spooky and prophesy ridden being freaked out, and then he dissapears? What's that about? What a cheat.

    Then we see him on the Baseship near the end with not one line spoken. There MUST be more on the extended cut, Ron!

    Edited on 03/25/2009 4:04am
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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [7]Mar 24, 2009
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    I still find "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" to be a pretty annoying episode, albeit more funny now that I've gotten used to her. But I did notice, and love the fact that they hint at her being a Cylon. I saw in "The Last Frakking Special," where they were talking about the Final Five, and they said that they only came up with her character later, through eliminating many of the main characters from the list of possibilities, and that really surprised me, because after rewatching it, I thought that it was meant to be a clue that they already knew about it, and had planted that in there for future reference.

    As for her killing Vallance, I am pretty sure she did it, and also pretty sure that it doesn't go against what we know now. Remember her talk with Cavil after she was killed and resurrected. They talked about the Cylons being created with human traits, good or bad. She, and the other Final Five created the other Cylons with human traits, and so Cavil made her "human," or more accurately make her think she was human, to make her see what being human truly like, and see what kind of "hell" she put them through. These traits are true to the ideas behind the story that was created, and fit her character, whether it's the mother of all the Cylons, or the "human" who didn't know she was a Cylon.

    I recently watched both parts of "Kobol's Last Gleaming" on Saturday, and "Scattered" tonight. When I saw Gaius' last scene in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, part 2," it was another one of those "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" moments, where, even if they didn't plan it out from the start, it seemed so obvious now, where they basically spelled out what Gaius' role was in the end. The same episode where Athena (before she was renamed) said that she was pregnant is the first episode where we see the Opera House, and see Angel Six walking down with Gaius to a crib, where she says something along the lines of him be the protector of God's children. Looking back on this, I immediately thought of Hera, given the circumstances of the finale and that episode. But then it is said in "Scattered" that the baby in that vision is his and Six's (or Angel Six's) child. I'm not really sure what to make of this. I really thought that it was supposed to be Hera. The only thing that I could think of to explain this is that maybe she was lying to Gaius. Maybe she did that to make him more accepting of his role, where he believes he needs to save his child as opposed to somebody else's child, and then switch it up on him when he's already accepted that he has a role to play, and isn't as selfish as he used to be. Not really sure though... Although I could be missing something. To be honest, I've actually forgotten how some of the things played out in the past, so maybe something happens between the two episodes to explain it?
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [8]Mar 26, 2009
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    The two episodes are consecutive.

    Yeah, Head six actually uses the term "our child" in both episodes.. but in "Kobol's" , Baltar asks " Our child. Figuratively?"

    She answers.. " And literally".

    It's never explained. I think she was, as you said, trying to goad him into a mind set where he would want to protect the child. It's pretty obvious he never really takes her seriously. I love the part in Home Pt. 2 where he ridicules the whole idea, and she responds by fraking with his head, by making him think he's crazy, that she's just his messed up subconcious. Remember that ?

    He sort of starts to take his guardian role seriously. Once he puts two and two together and realizes the baby born in the cell will be Sharon's.

    Edited on 03/26/2009 8:08pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Hungry_Homer111

    [9]Mar 28, 2009
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    To continue with that, I saw "Valley Of Darkness" last night. In that one, Gaius has a dream where he's holding "his" baby on the planet where they landed, and Adama is there and sees him holding the baby. He asks "is this the shape of things to come?" When Gaius answers "yes," Adama goes off with the baby and drowns it.

    If you think about Hera's role in the final few episodes, when she is kidnapped, it's ultimately Adama's decision to either go after her or leave her ("drown" her). At first, that's what he was going to do, just leave her there and go off with the fleet to find a new home. It was probably only due to the many different situations, of Galactica falling apart, having Starbuck, Tigh, Helo and others trying to convince him to go after her, and finding out about Starbuck's resurrection (which probably strengthened his belief in their destiny, having just called it non-sense when Starbuck, Tigh, and Ellen first ask him to go).
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [10]Mar 29, 2009
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    Yeah, Adama has actually played a roll in her survival quite a few times. During the standoff with Helo, when they were going to abort her, Adama gave Baltar a chance to use hera's blood for laura's sake. He an Laura handing her over to the girl (can't remember her name) just before finding New Caprica so the Cylons wouldn't find her. Not to mention, it was soley his decision to inform her parents that Hera was still alive (scene trimmed from " Eye of Jupiter), which resulted in Athena saving her daughter. We now know what her fate would have been back then.
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    MajLorne

    [11]Mar 30, 2009
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    Well I admit I missed quite a bit of season 1-3 episodes here and there, but at least watched enough of season 2 and 3 to get an idea about most things leading up to season 4.

    I'm more into the ship battles. [Whenever I get a chance to rewatch the whole series again I'll be able to comment more on the characters.]

    But I gotta wonder how the rest of the series might have turned out if Pegasus was saved and Galactica sacrificed in Exodus part 2? I mean i certainly was impressed how that ship alone took out 3 basestars, 2 of them being direct impacts [1st by ramming into a basestar and the 2nd when the hangar pod crashed into another one]. But maybe then they probably wouldn't have had the whole 'ship is dying' storyline?

    Also to maintain a ship of its size, I wonder if it would have meant further canibalization of the fleet to support it? Also if Pegasus was still intact, I wonder if it would've been the Cylon Basestar taken into the final battle against Cavil? Leaving Pegasus to protect the fleet?

    Oh well aside from the what if's, I just love the visuals of the battles from Resurrection Ship, Exodus Part 2, the Hub, to Daybreak part 2. Besides the drama, this show has some kick ass action. And I will really miss this part the most.

    Edited on 03/30/2009 7:57pm
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [12]Mar 30, 2009
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    Hey MajLorne, thanks!

    The battles scenes have been fantastic. I remember being initially dissapointed with the miniseries lack of scenes of the destruction of the colonies, but I understood why, and what they were going for. And they've certainly made up for it since. "The Hand of God" is the first one that blew me away. People who complain about filler episodes ( I never understood that term), could certainly , eventually, see what the money was being saved for.

    You must have been in heaven with the confrontation in the finale, no?

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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [13]Mar 31, 2009
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    Oh yes, I've been spoiled by space battles on shows like Stargate Atlantis [specifically a season 4 episode by the acronym BAMSR]. I could only hope most sci-fi shows ended with a 'big bang' like that.

    But totally agreed, if it means having to put up with 'filler' episodes for fantastic budget breaking episodes, I am all for it 100%. If you want to do the big battles right, don't cut corners and go all out on them.

    And I'm just glad to put in my thoughts about the battles. I just hope sci-fi reairs the show again from the Mini-series to the finale + Razor. I so need to rewatch all of them again.
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [14]Mar 31, 2009
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    Netflix! A BSG fan's best friend!
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [15]Mar 31, 2009
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    Heh, true.
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  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [16]Jun 5, 2009
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    I have to bring this up again... my praise for Mary's work in the series as Laura. From the very beginning her work has been amazing.

    We now know all that Laura went through prior to the fall of the colonies. Her trials with her Mother's cancer, and eventual long death. Her Father and sisters dying in one fell swoop in the same night. Finding out she was to suffer the same ultimate fate as her mother.. and then immediately afterward... being tossed aside and sacrificed by her boss and lover, President Adar.

    With all of this , and the destruction of the colonies.. she is forced into becoming the President herself... and then the " Dying Leader ", who is expected to be the salvation of all mankind.

    In the miniseries, most of this is never revealed about Laura.. most of her past is revealed as the series unfolds... some only at the very end of the show. Yet, in the Mini-series, if you watch Mary perform.. it's as if she knows all of Laura's pains, sorrows, and tragedies... like she knows herself. After watching the series all the way through.. then go back to the miniseries, you almost believe in Mary's performance that the pain and scars are all there... even though most of Laura's past was not even written yet. That is the mark of an incredible actress.

    Kudos, Mary. I've been a fan of yours for decades... but I belive that Laura Roslin will always be the role you were born to play.

    Edited on 06/05/2009 8:23pm
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