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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Blood on the Scales" (2) (2/6/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of webe123

    webe123

    [21]Feb 6, 2009
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    Thank God they finally got rid of the two who started the insurrection in the first place...too bad they did not show them BEING SHOT! I guess this is TV and that is why they did not show it, but whatever (the showed the cylons being shot by the centurions a few years ago)...I would have loved to have seen those two fall over dead in their chairs for ordering the execution of the quarim! Now maybe the series can move on with ending now that those two are out of the way.
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  • Avatar of therealcromar

    therealcromar

    [22]Feb 6, 2009
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    zukiki wrote:
    Ultimately what I didn't like was that they were going for conflicting view points. Trusting the cylons so implicitly is a really dangerous thing that could potentially wipe out civilization. Yet instead of looking at the issue, they made Zarek into the heartless villian, and just kinda took the ship back with brute force...or ya know just looking at people until that switched sides back to Adama.

    They didn't make him into a heartless villain. He has ALWAYS been a heartless villain. There has never been any grey area to Zarek. He is smart and a gifted speaker, and was able to trick a lot of weak minded people into thinking he was something he wasn't. Sadly I see real people in real life who watch BSG and consider him a "grey area" character as if they are too possibly falling for his rhetoric. It's always been shallow anti-establishment crap designed to trick morons into following him to the abyss.

    My hat is off to the actor for the portrayal, however. If his character can convince real life people as well as the fictional people in the show, Hatch obviously did his job exceptionally well.

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [23]Feb 6, 2009
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    I'm glad that Zarek and Gaeta got executed at the end. (I'm assuming they actually were shot.) It was a necessary close to the mutiny. Gaeta's actions were consistent with his character. He acted similarly on New Caprica when he thought he could do some good as Baltar's assistant. I know he turned and began helping the Resistance. The failed experiment on New Caprica is what turned Baltar against the idea of cooperation with the Cylons.

    As for Lt. Kelly, he has been in the brig ever since the end of Season 3, shortly before Baltar's trial. Kelly was the person who sabotaged the Raptor that was to take Lampkin. Tyrol discovered the bomb before it could take off. Kelly also killed off the two previous attorneys who represented Baltar. Kelly was caught at the end of that episode. This is why Tyrol referred to Kelly with the joke about the brig.

    On a side note, Kelly used to be a bit heavier. This is why some might not have recognized him in this episode. Executive producer David Eick even joked about this in the podcast of the writers' meeting for "Razor", making a remark about the weight of the actor who plays Kelly. I'm not ridiculing the actor at all, but I guess Lt. Kelly did lose some weight during his time in the brig.

    I hope Gage was executed. There was already enough reason for him to be imprisoned before (because of his actions on the Pegasus). Now that he was one of the prime actors in the mutiny, I don't see how he can escape the firing squad. He's clearly in favor of raping Cylon prisoners so the audience is meant to hate him. This was clear when he made the comment to Helo in "The Oath" about having fun with Athena, a clear reference to the near rape of Athena in the "Pegasus" episode.

    Back to Gaeta, I know he was doing what he thought was right but I grew to despise the character in the last two episodes. He should know that the fleet is too fragile to withstand a mutiny and yet another division. He also had to know that a mutiny would involve a lot of bloodshed. That's a fundamental part of revolution. I'm glad that this part of the mutiny was not played down like it is in many other shows. The uprising was portrayed as something brutal. Students of history know that most revolutions in real life turn out to be extremely bloody, with the American Revolution being among the few exceptions.

    Yes, there was an extended war but there were no mass executions and slaughters associated with the American Revolution. On the other hand, the French Revolution, which started out with such lofty and noble ideals as liberty, equality and brotherhood, turned into the "Terror", with thousands of people being killed for not following the new regime. The Russian Revolution was meant to free the working classes and foster a new era of the classless society. Instead, it turned into a feeding frenzy led by the paranoia of Stalin who ended up murdering and starving out millions of his own people. The Chinese Revolution ended up with tens of millions of deaths from forced starvation and mass executions along with the cultural cleansing of "counter-revolutionaries". The same thing in Cambodia where the Khmer Rouge killed off 20 percent of the population of the entire country in just three years. I think it's useful on occasion to show exactly what being a revolutionary means. For some reason, figures like Che Guevara have become fashion statements for 20-something hipsters nowadays but he and others like him (on both the left and the right) represent repression and the unleashing of powerful forces of bloodlust and mass murder.

    Tom Zarek was a chilling portrait of the revolutionary and supposed "freedom fighter" at work. He's always been a complicated character. He was intended to be a mix of real-life figures like Nelson Mandela, Fidel Castro, Mao Tse-Tung, Joseph Stalin and others who fought against oppression but mixed it up with some more nefarious elements. Before anyone jumps on me for including Mandela in the list, keep in mind that he associated with some questionable figures like Qaddafi and the PLO (before they somewhat reconciled with Israel). Much of what Zarek has said in the past has made sense. For example, he fought to make the Colonial government a true democracy, with open and contested elections. However, almost from the start of his new political career in the Colonial fleet, he has been willing to do almost anything to achieve his ends. He planned assassination attempts against Roslin and Lee Adama in the past. He did help to fight the Cylons on New Caprica but that ferocity turned to the dark side again after the shock of finding a devastated Earth.

    I'm really glad that Richard Hatch played such a controversial and powerful character. I think most viewers always felt uneasy when Zarek was onscreen because they always knew he was plotting and calculating. He had monstrous tendencies that were never far from the surface. This was clear when he had the entire Quorum assassinated in this episode. Richard Hatch ties in this series to the original BSG series in a significant way. The previous BSG was not as dark, dramatic or paranoid. It was a great move to cast Hatch in one of the most dark and paranoid characters on the new series. Hatch was one of the early critics of the new BSG series but when he finally came around, he came through with the scary character of Zarek, scary because his character is so real. There are a LOT of people like him in real life, and not just in places like North Korea, Afghanistan or in the former Soviet Union. You can see aspects of Zarek in many political figures in the U.S., left and right. I'm not saying that they are brutal killers like Zarek but I wonder if they were put in desperate situations like the Colonial fleet is in, would they also resort to savagery like Zarek did? I've been around some people who I think have more than a little Zarek in them and they are supposed to be "respectable" and in positions of power. Now THAT'S really scary.

    Gaeta's feelings about the alliance with the Cylons can be seen as an exploration of the situation in the West immediately after the Cold War. It took a while before many people were comfortable about calling the former Soviet states allies of the U.S. Likewise, Gaeta, Zarek, Narcho, Gage, Racetrack and the others were unwilling to move on past the war with the Cylons. They have good reasons to harbor resentment towards the Cylons but they have even more reason to try to get past those feelings, to help ensure the survival of the remnants of Colonial civilization, especially now that earth did not turn out to be the Promised Land.

    I assume that Anders was saved at the end and taken care of by Doc Cottle. Otherwise they would have shown a grieving Kara in one of the final scenes. Having Anders die would have distracted from the main focus on the mutiny. Maybe Anders will die in the next episode or the one after that as a result of his wound. But adding his death to this story would have muddled things.

    Likewise, I wondered about what was going on with Tyrol. Was that a rupture of the outer hull? If so, why wasn't the atmosphere venting? Maybe the hull plating hadn't been breached completely.

    Only six more episodes to go. This episode probably finished off the issue of misgivings in the fleet about the alliance with the Cylons. I can't imagine the writers taking any more time on this storyline with so few episodes left. We still need to find out why the Final Cylon is so important, and Cavil is still out there in the void. I'm enjoying the flow of this final half season of BSG. I'm also glad I didn't spend too much time speculating on the identity of the final Cylon and trying to sort out all the twists and turns of Colonial and Cylon history. I'm interested to see how it all gets resolved but that has never been my main interest in the series. I like the powerful dramatic stories that cover both the personal and the political (without getting too preachy). So much of the political content is chilling on this show because it reminds me so much of various real-life situations from history and the present day. The conflicts are shown in a harsh, unvarnished manner. War, politics, coups and assassinations are not pleasant, not like they were sometimes portrayed in some of the lesser James Bond movies of the past. They are bloody and savage. It's not usually portrayed this way on TV. That's why I find the BSG approach refreshing, if unsettling.
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  • Avatar of Flamecommando

    Flamecommando

    [24]Feb 6, 2009
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    Great episode! Roslin's "I'm coming for you with such and such" was intense. Loved this episode. I could watch it several more times and not get bored.

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  • Avatar of Jericho_Rules

    Jericho_Rules

    [25]Feb 7, 2009
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    Overall, I thought the last two episodes of the show were absolutely fantastic.

    I'm curious to when we'll start gettings answers about the Opera House visions from Roslin & co. though. It almost seems like they forgot about it. Maybe next episode?

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  • Avatar of rickvega

    rickvega

    [26]Feb 7, 2009
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    lunachan01 wrote:
    I for one like seen thing get resolve now. Still something they forgot to show is Anders dead or not. Even if he dies I know he is coming back because Helen Tigh is coming back next week so there is a resurrection ship for the final five.

    OM Fracking gods the last 2 episode where AMAZING I liked when Roslin told Galactica she was coming for them with all the weapons, canons, bullets at her hand that was so good to see coming from her. The thing I don't get is if the rebel zylons got rid of the HUB (the ship that was the main hub for all resurrection ships) how in the hell does Ellen come back???????????????? What I remember is that they said that without the HUB NO ZYLON could be re-downloaded.

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  • Avatar of eater11

    eater11

    [27]Feb 7, 2009
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    That Has to be one of my all time Favorite BSG eps. I will talk more about it later but Kelly made this episode and he really did save Adama hence the ship.
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  • Avatar of jurecudina

    jurecudina

    [28]Feb 7, 2009
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    Can I ask something? Is BSG falling a part?
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  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [29]Feb 7, 2009
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    rickvega wrote:

    lunachan01 wrote:
    I for one like seen thing get resolve now. Still something they forgot to show is Anders dead or not. Even if he dies I know he is coming back because Helen Tigh is coming back next week so there is a resurrection ship for the final five.

    OM Fracking gods the last 2 episode where AMAZING I liked when Roslin told Galactica she was coming for them with all the weapons, canons, bullets at her hand that was so good to see coming from her. The thing I don't get is if the rebel zylons got rid of the HUB (the ship that was the main hub for all resurrection ships) how in the hell does Ellen come back???????????????? What I remember is that they said that without the HUB NO ZYLON could be re-downloaded.

    The final five probably has their own resurrection ship (ship of lights), or she resurrected 18 months ago.

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  • Avatar of zukiki

    zukiki

    [30]Feb 7, 2009
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    For those wondering about the fate of Anders, the Canadian Preview shed some light on it


    ***SPOILER***


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  • Avatar of AndreasOS

    AndreasOS

    [31]Feb 7, 2009
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    wedgeantilles54 wrote:
    I think Kelly and his change of heart was interesting but at the same time confusing. Tyrol said something about him being in the brig, when did that happen i might have missed it but i'm pretty sure i didn't (anyone know the deal on that?)

    Kelly was locked up after the assination attempts on Romo Lampkin (the lawyer who killed the marine with the pen) when he was representing Giaus Baltar after New Caprica. Kelly had assinated the previous lawyer, and tried to kill Lampkin, but was discovered, and convicted for it.

    It seems that Tyrol and Kelly were friends before that happened, and to be honest, it never really seemed like Kelly had any problems with the administration, just with Baltar. He wanted him dead, but never had any issue with Adama.

    I'm glad he's back, because he's been missing since the end of season 3, and since we lost Hadrian, it's felt like the marines were just extras again, as opposed to actual talking characters.

    I think his little scene telling Lee and the rest to go to te main hangar was good, as it set the tone for the following scene where Adama tells the Marines that were his firing squad that he's taking back his ship... The Marines can't really be blamed for their roll. Well a few of them, maybe (the guy Romo killed with the pen was not a particularily nice fellow). They were following orders. It's what they do. And they saw Adama himself giving them an order. That would countermand any order from their direct superiors... Plus, their previous CO was there, Aaron Kelly, so... Fair enough, Maybe they shouldn't have been pointed their guns at the Admiral, but again, Orders.

    Also, Gaeta's change of heart and realisation of his errors was expected, but a little over played. Ok, we all know Gaeta for what, nearly six years now? we know he's not an insubordinate. So we could expect him to have a moment of clarity, but the smiling at Zarek at the end was a bit strange. Tom Zarek Executed the Quorum, and destroyed everything the Mutiny had in it's favour... Why would he be so pleasant to a man who did that. A man who has consistantly failed to do the honourable thing, and has actively worked to promote sedition amongst the fleet. A man who has revealed himself to be a power hungry murderer. It just didn't seem to make sense.

    As for the Galactica, The old bird doesn't have much left in her. She's been through a lot. but still she was built strong, so one has to wonder, are the rest of the fleet showing similar signs of mechanical failure? The sheer number of FTL jumps they've had to do since the initial attack could be having an effect on their superstructure too...
    I think its all working towardsone hell of an finale...

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  • Avatar of johnhugo

    johnhugo

    [32]Feb 7, 2009
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    I don't think that the fleet found planet Earth at all. We never saw a convincing view from space to confirm that the planet was indeed Earth. Can't wait to see how this will play out.
    Edited on 02/07/2009 6:34am
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  • Avatar of PineTreeMouse

    PineTreeMouse

    [33]Feb 7, 2009
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    For starters I absolutely loved this episode. I'm a real fan of the first season with its realistic portrayl of a fleet fleeing for its very lives from a remorseless enemy. These last 4 episodes have brought that feeling back and then some. I too wonder what the significance of the scene with Tyrol is: is it showing that the ship is about to fall to pieces?

    Of course the final 6 episodes are going to concentrate on the outstanding questions and the importance of the final 4/5 should come to the fore: I mean they must be more than just the remanants of the previous cylon civilization! We already know that these cylons are different as they can procreate (at least with other cylons). also they are part of the framework of the cylon psyche. I would suggest that they are the 'pinancle' of cylon technology as instead of copies each cylon created is a unique individual.

    On another note maybe the 'all this has happened before and will happen again' relates to cycles of violence. As humans, left to their own devices, fight with humans (Kobal) and cylons left to their own devices also fight amongst each other (I believe Earth was a cylon-cylon war), to break the cycle the humans and cylons need to be intertwined with each others lives. this makes the birth of Athena's and Helo kid all the more significant: it is the genuine bridge that can break the cycle.

    and of course lets not forget all the 'head' characters. there is something else at work here. It must all lead somewhere...

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  • Avatar of lunachan01

    lunachan01

    [34]Feb 7, 2009
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    I think there is another resurrection HUB and that is only for the final five. Also from what I can see on the preview they also have there own cylon fleet of base stars, if not, it has to be Cavils fleet. Helen died on another galaxy so maybe it took her so long to reach the Earth resurrection ship. Also this resurrection ship has to be the one created the Kara we are seeing now, because the original one is dead and creameted by the new clone Kara.
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  • Avatar of rslade70

    rslade70

    [35]Feb 7, 2009
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    rickvega wrote:

    lunachan01 wrote:
    I for one like seen thing get resolve now. Still something they forgot to show is Anders dead or not. Even if he dies I know he is coming back because Helen Tigh is coming back next week so there is a resurrection ship for the final five.

    OM Fracking gods the last 2 episode where AMAZING I liked when Roslin told Galactica she was coming for them with all the weapons, canons, bullets at her hand that was so good to see coming from her. The thing I don't get is if the rebel zylons got rid of the HUB (the ship that was the main hub for all resurrection ships) how in the hell does Ellen come back???????????????? What I remember is that they said that without the HUB NO ZYLON could be re-downloaded.


    The previews you are seeing for next week does not necessarily mean that Ellen is resurrected again. It could be a flash back of when she was originally resurrected when Earth was destroyed way back when. Ellen could just be back in flashback scenes for a back story to be told from the memories of the cylons.
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  • Avatar of hoobydictator

    hoobydictator

    [36]Feb 7, 2009
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    lunachan01 wrote:
    I think there is another resurrection HUB and that is only for the final five. Also from what I can see on the preview they also have there own cylon fleet of base stars, if not, it has to be Cavils fleet. Helen died on another galaxy so maybe it took her so long to reach the Earth resurrection ship. Also this resurrection ship has to be the one created the Kara we are seeing now, because the original one is dead and creameted by the new clone Kara.

    I don't think it is a ship. There's a Canadian trailer out there on Youtube and one of the images that flashes through is the range on the algae planet that contained the Temple of Five. I think that's their resurrection mechanism, so Ellen would have to have been resurrected and gone before it was destroyed. Having said that, it's a bit of a large structure to have been built by just the five of them with no one else being involved. I suppose it could have been one of those crazy kinds of schemes that you buy into, like having your body cryogenically frozen, with the Eye of Jupiter being a corporate or project logo rather than something with a more deeper meaning. That could mean that there is more than one of these sites and more than five Cylons who would have been using them. If Kara's mother was one of them, it could explain Kara's connection with that image and possibly her return (although that would not answer everything, like the brand new Viper or how she wound up dead on Earth).

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    tribalchic

    [37]Feb 7, 2009
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    WOW.

    These last 2 episodes have been amazing, I don't think i've been this engaged in the story since the Pegasus storyline in season2.

    I've always liked Gaeta's character in the past so to see him go this direction is cringeworthy, but Just like real people, the characters on BSG are deeply flawed and perfectly capable of making huge mistakes and Gaeta's a perfect example of this. His and Zarek's punishment was more than deserved for their actions, exspecially Zarek's on Colonial 1, that was the cruelest most grotesque thing i've seen since the brutal execution of Alex on Lost.

    I mentioned in the last discussion thread that I predicted Baltar would be the one to finally kill him, during that final scene between Gaius and Gaeta I was totally expecting an impromptu bullet to go flying into his head while they were talking either by one of the guards (if there were any) or Baltar himself. Looking back i'm glad they kept it as a character scene and let the two resolve their tensions with each other because that was an amazingly touching scene, exspecially Gaeta's last words about wanting to be remembered as "something more" than his last actions. They couldn't have ended his character any better than that.

    Also glad to finally see a triumphant return of Romo, I love his character!

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  • Avatar of rotatorkuf

    rotatorkuf

    [38]Feb 7, 2009
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    i thought gaius was having that conversation with geita in his head

    jumped to the hasty conclusion that geita is the final cylon

    but i'm probably reaching for nothing haha

    anyone find any signficance in what geita said "it stopped"

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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [39]Feb 7, 2009
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    Another great episode!

    123home123 wrote:
    Likewise, I wondered about what was going on with Tyrol. Was that a rupture of the outer hull? If so, why wasn't the atmosphere venting? Maybe the hull plating hadn't been breached completely.

    The structure looked more to be a part of a door frame rather than an outer hull piece. In the "You will know the truth" pieces, you see Adama looking at these cracks in a door frame in what looks like his quarters. The old ship's taken a beating over the years.

    It was pretty cool seeing the actual FTL drives. (I assume that's what they were) They certainly looked like something that was "spun up" and ready to use.

    As for Zarek being responsible for the planned assassination of Rosalyn, I always thought that Ellen had a role in that. Telling someone where the assassin was when she was told at that bar on Cloud nine.

    Again, anyone notice that Sharon seems very un-concerned that Caprica-six is getting very close to Hera? In just a few episodes before, she murdered a six because of her paranoia in this.

    Mr BO

    Edited on 02/07/2009 2:25pm
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    hazelnut144

    [40]Feb 7, 2009
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    I've got to put in my agreement to everything 123Home123 said. The episode was really well done I though. I am glad that they shot Gaeta and Zarek. The whole episode would have seemed a bit of a copout after Adama's threat in the last episode. It was also a little eerie when he says "it stopped" right before he is shot. Its very well done. I do wonder whether or not Anders died. I mean, from the looks of it, he was shot right through the neck. Roslin was amazing, and very intense. Chief was also pretty awesome, and managed to save the day in time for Adama to take back CIC. It was cool seeing the actual FTL. And the fact that the ship seems to be falling apart. Zarek shooting down the entire Quorum was shocking, though they were a bit annoying. But they did stand up to him, so good on them. Can't wait for next episode!
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