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Discussion - "Blood on the Scales" (2) (2/6/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [81]Feb 10, 2009
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    nomatic11 wrote:

    I wouldn't trust Moore to be absolutely straight about the identity of the final Cylon. He knew that who ever was revealed as the final Cylon would not have the same impact of the previous revelations. So he might have decided to use a red herring.

    By the sounds of things he will certainly catch you by surprise when it happens.

    The six model seems to be the only one that can alter its appearence. Do you think Cylons dye their hair or wear wigs?

    Of course they don't. The sixes' seem to have some mechanism by which they can alter their appearence. Maybe they can do more than just change their hair colour.

    ... and why would they include the scene in which Baltar seems to be puzzled by Six's appearence if he did not want to at least plant the seeds of doubt.

    Then we have Dee's strange behaviour after finding some jacks on earth ... perhaps it triggered some childhood memories.

    Then of course we still need an explanation for Starbuck's resurrection. Remember she said she had been to Earth and described how beautiful it was. It may have been a memory of what Earth used to look like 2000 years previously.

    Now we also have Gaeta and Zarek in need of ressurection. It might all be a clever ruse by Moore ... but we will all know for sure in a few weeks.

    You must still believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.

    There are 6 episodes left. He specifically said in his interview that he did NOT want the show to be about the identity of the fifth cylon. (ala Who shot JR?; Dallas) So, the decision was made to quickly clear the air as soon as they came back from their unnecessary hiatus. Further more, he went into the detailed logic of why they (the writers and him) picked Ellen and WHEN they picked her in writing the series. Furthermore, as proof that all of this was planned out, you can look at the picture of the Last Supper and it clearly shows hints to Ellen's true identity (see the cup on the table with the poison and Tie sitting by himself?). Lastly, last year he was interviewed and hinted to the identity of the fifth cylon and he specifically stated it was NOT a main cast member. Regardless of this fact, people have continued to wish and hope for their character to be the ONE. I think with the hiatus and all of the other crap with scheduling, they have over played their cards and hyped it to the point that you and countless others can't accept it. He specifically said all of this in detail. This is not LOST. They do not have the time to say one thing and do another. Accept it and move on.

    Can I explain Kara? No, perhaps she is a cylon, but Moore clearly stated, Ellen is the fifth cylon of the original five. This could mean that there are 13 cylons and only 12 had been known. But of the 12, 5 were the original models and 7 were the series. This will all be explained over the next 6 episodes and I think after this coming weeks there will be on screen confirmation that Ellen is the fifth.

    Another point in the interview that bugs me about people not believing is Earth. He clearly stated, Earth is EARTH. Not another place thought to be Earth, but EARTH. The planet we are currently residing on. He mentioned no time period so we are left to wonder if its in the distant past, present or future. We dont know. But its EARTH. PLEASE ACCEPT IT AND MOVE ON...

    [/QUOTE]

    When asked if they found Earth Ron Moore said "They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth." He never said that this was the one and only Earth or our Earth. And the phrase "they christened it Earth" seems strange to me. Like they named it after another planet. Maye one that they came from after leaving the other colonies.

    Edited on 02/10/2009 8:44am
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [82]Feb 10, 2009
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    Jericho_Rules wrote:

    Overall, I thought the last two episodes of the show were absolutely fantastic.

    I'm curious to when we'll start gettings answers about the Opera House visions from Roslin & co. though. It almost seems like they forgot about it. Maybe next episode?



    I'm still of the opinion that the "opera house" is a metaphor for the Galactica herself - and I've seen that others have mentioned this in various reviews of episodes.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [83]Feb 10, 2009
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    I am going to agree with what nomatic11 wrote. As for the "christened it Earth" phrase, I think that just came out sounding weird. I think what he meant was that they found the Earth they were looking for. How much that Earth is related to our Earth is definitely in question. It is not completely the same as our Earth, but that does not mean that "our Earth" exists out there. As for Kara's description of it, well I would guess there is some weird time travel something or other going on with her. Who knows. But what I do know is that in six episodes, they do not have time to throw red herrings left right and centre. They have enough to deal with already. I think that once something is dealt with, we can safely call it finished. We still need to find out what is with the head people, who/what Kara is, Hera and the Caprica/Saul baby, the opera house, Six and Baltar, Roslin's death (I may be the only one, but I think it'll be a bit of a cop out if she survives, although I suppose they could leave it at "the dying leader will never reach the chosen land simply because they don't find it in her lifetime". But I think she should get at least the A plot of an episode for her death), Cavil and the others, maybe Boomer.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [84]Feb 10, 2009
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    Raven-22 wrote:
    This could mean that there are 13 cylons and only 12 had been known. But of the 12, 5 were the original models and 7 were the series.


    Now...isn't that interesting.... 13 Cylons .... and 13 tribes....

    While I accept Ellen as "the fifth" - as confirmed by D'anna Biers ("the fifth is not in the fleet", and ron Moore et al, ad infinitum, and the indications from "the Last Supper" images (the empty chair between Tigh and Lee Adama, their body positions (when compared to the manner in which Ellen played them on her arrival aboard Galactica) etc...)....

    I still can't get past the feeling that Eick, Moore et al have one more twist to the story for us all.

    And I'm going to risk life and limb by suggesting that the twist is this:

    There are NO "humans" in the fleet. Period. There are only various iterations of Cylons.

    That is, what we are seeing (the 12 colonies, et al) is the latest iteration in a cycle of Cylon "history" and "evolution", one which reboots itself every 2,000 with minor changes to the "code" some elements change subtlely, while the overall cycle of war, strife, homelessness among the stars, misunderstandings, lost heritage, a dividing of the "people" (e.g. the "13th tribe" wandering off), are repeated time and again. Why do I say this? Many reasons, but notably: a) It would be totally consistent with the Leoben / hybrid mantra that "all this has happened before, all this will happen again"....

    b) We know now that the 13th tribe on Earth were humano-Cylons......

    I shall now don my flak jacket and tin hat and take over in the nearest fall-out shelter...
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [85]Feb 10, 2009
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    Hey, it's a valid theory...and not the "Ellen is an older version of six" again, so that is something. I do think that there is going to be some huge (okay well huger than has already been done) discussion on what it means to be colonial vs. cylon. Which ones are really human? What really happened on Kobol etc. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if the colonials were somehow cylons. Then again, because it doesn't seem that surprising to me, maybe that means they have something even more shocking due to appear in the next few episodes. Who knows.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [86]Feb 10, 2009
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    hazelnut144 wrote:
    I wouldn't be hugely surprised if the colonials were somehow cylons. Then again, because it doesn't seem that surprising to me, maybe that means they have something even more shocking due to appear in the next few episodes. Who knows.


    Think of the impact on the "humans"! One of the reasons I would have preferred the likes of Zarek to have survived and received his come-uppance closer to the finale (or in the finale) is because this kind of revelation would have demoralised his mutineers and left him utterly impotent - especially if he was simply using the growing discontent / distrust of the Cylons as a lever to foment the uprising / mutiny, rather than actually hating Cylons himself. Indeed, that this particular arc has now been more-or-less closed (other than the expected angst and ripples of mistrust / dislike), is the main reason why the "they're all Cylons" theory is possibly wrong - much of the dramatic shock in terms of storytelling may well have been lost with the failure of the mutiny and the deaths of Zarek and Gaeta.
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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [87]Feb 11, 2009
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    An oustanding conclusion to the mutiny. The series is starting to wrap up extremely well, and I really enjoyed seeing even more returning charcters (Lempkin, Kelly).
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  • Avatar of slowblink

    slowblink

    [89]Feb 11, 2009
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    Yes, I had also considered the "they are all cylons" idea, but I discounted it when Doc Cottle and the Nurse were discussing giving Hera a transfusion. (cylon blood or human blood?) It indicated to me that some detailed pathology had already been carried out and they are fairly clear on the difference.
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  • Avatar of PineTreeMouse

    PineTreeMouse

    [90]Feb 11, 2009
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    Yep I go for the 'they are all cylons' theory too!

    the blood discussion is in relation to the series 7 blood surely: do we actually know that the final 5 have had a blood test which shows that there's is the same as the copies?

    It could be that the 12 tribes of Kobol were 'pure' humanoid cylons while the 13th tribe was trying to perfect some sort of symbiosis between the earlier and later versions of cylon.

    That would of course mean that everyone who has died up to this point could be resurrected somewhere.... and the Kara Thrace as the 'harbinger of the end of the human race' could mean the death of the idea that there was a human race still in existence!
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  • Avatar of Mangalore

    Mangalore

    [91]Feb 11, 2009
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    hazelnut144 wrote:
    ... As for the "christened it Earth" phrase, I think that just came out sounding weird. ...


    I think it's simply irrelevant to the underlying story. They borrowed the plotline from the original series but given that there is no satisfying resolution to this plot simply left it in for reference but overall it's mainly about the planet where the thirteenth tribe went.

    I also don't think they'll pull something with Ellen suddenly not being the final Cylon. The reason to choose her is the logical choice: Any stunt would have looked cheesy, selecting her is fitting and not over the top and giving them lots of space to maneuver storywise.

    I guess the big hinge the story rests on is Starbuck. Whoever, however she came back probably defines the ending, for the rest mainly the "why" is missing...
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [92]Feb 11, 2009
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    sean2evo wrote:
    This episode was so amazing I had a semi erection most of the way through. My favorite part was when the useless nattering Quarum got blown to smithereens. Cant tell you how many times I wanted that to happen. Every scene they were in. I hate politicians! pew-pew. I totally cheered during that scene. SHOOT THEM!
    LMFAO. I'm not going to comment on the first line, but yeah I do agree the politicians were useless and really did 'nothing' so it's no big loss with them gone. They at least served a purpose to show Zarek's ruthlessness.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [93]Feb 14, 2009
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    slowblink wrote:
    Yes, I had also considered the "they are all cylons" idea, but I discounted it when Doc Cottle and the Nurse were discussing giving Hera a transfusion. (cylon blood or human blood?) It indicated to me that some detailed pathology had already been carried out and they are fairly clear on the difference.


    I'm not sure this is the case. They may well be up on the pathology of "modern" Cylons (Six, Thrre, Leoben, etc.), but these models would appear to stand apart from Tigh, Tyrol, Ellen, et al, who appear to be from a much older iteration of Cylon, given they appear to have been incarnated on Earth, and have apparently been reincarnated OUTSIDE of "modern" Cylon technology. Further, Baltar has indicated that the pathology of these "earier" Cylons is only minutely different to that of "human" pathology - so much so that on first analysis, they actually passed as "humans"....

    Given what has previously been established about the Cylons (the fact that determining ANY differences between them and humans was once the cause of significant difficulties - remember all of Balatr's efforts back in season 1?) I actually take the discussion' between Cottle and the Nurse as a continuity glitch for the sake of dramatic purposes (driving Gaeta closer to thoughts of mutiny) rather than a substantive argument for extensive differences between "human" and "cylon" pathology.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [94]Feb 14, 2009
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    PineTreeMouse wrote:
    That would of course mean that everyone who has died up to this point could be resurrected somewhere.... and the Kara Thrace as the 'harbinger of the end of the human race' could mean the death of the idea that there was a human race still in existence!


    Very much so. This is the primary reason I'm hanging on to the "all Cylons" theory after the deneument of the rebelion story (which as previously posted, I feel could have been whammingly handled had the revelations of the colonial's "heritage" come hand-in-hand with the uprising...). Kara does certainly appear to have been resurrected, and Leoben's reaction to this fact was also interesting - he looked like a man whose own beliefs had just been pulled out from under him, destroying his one sureity of understanding in the "all this has happened...." mantra.
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