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Discussion - "Collaborators" (spoilers)

  • Avatar of Redbird89

    Redbird89

    [61]Oct 30, 2006
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    Great episode!

    The new Starbuck actually scares me to death. She is downright evil at the moment. Also, some of the looks in Col Tigh's eye tonight were downright chilling. AA is going to have to demote Tigh or something, he is dangerous. How come we didn't see Sharon in this episode? Isn't that a HUGE story in itself? I mean, a known cylon being in the military? Guess we shall have to wait and see.
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [62]Oct 31, 2006
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    Redbird89 wrote:
    Great episode!

    The new Starbuck actually scares me to death. She is downright evil at the moment..


    Ok, I know I'm a fan and all, but that seems a little heavy handed if you ask me. It's not like she continued to beat on Gaeta even after Tyrol hauled her off. Neither did she do more than speak to Anders, when it was obvious to me that she wanted to do a whole lot more...and in the end there she kissed him goodbye.

    Right now, obviously she's got a white hot fury. But I wouldn't quite qualify her as evil. Highly disturbed...with more than enough reason yes, evil, not quite!

    Starbuck will need time, and who knows what else! But she's gonna pull outta this stronger than ever...
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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [63]Oct 31, 2006
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    DarqAli wrote:

    Now, if I were Adama, I would have put Tigh in charge of a formal inquiry into this issue, Keeping all proceedings in the light of day.

    Tigh as a vigilante answering to no higher power is a frighening image, given his penchant for setting of human bombs and is act with his wife. Yes, I understood Ellen had sealed her own fate. Any Resistance group would have condemned her to death 

    So  I hope Tyrl doesn't enlist Tigh!  After the pain he endured himself I fear he will seek to inflict it upon others with little proof or provocation.

    Nuremberg Trials are sometimes necessary, but they must be done in full light of day, with full chance for the accused to defend themselves. For example, Gaeta may be in serious trouble if the work is done by vigilantes. If there were an open trial, Gaeta could redeem himself, for he never deserted the Colonists nor their cause and could prove it {he knew the dog-dish signal of the dead-drop, and knew too the very secret material he delivered there - surely enough to exonorate him}.

     If the cylon learn the humans unfairly accuse and dispatch suspected traitors, it will harden them to follow yet again. Suppose, for example, Gaeta is a cylon and is executed without trail, what's he gonna say when he wakes up in Download City .... [Not that I'm predicting that .....]

    seems like your light of day theory was the only thing they shouldn't be doing. Thank god your never gona get any power

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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [64]Oct 31, 2006
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    DarqAli wrote:
    I doubt we'll see Jammer again. Jammer was in a Webisode, where a cylon asked him to join the NC Police force. In a room of subtle tones, the only real color was the bottle of juice {glowing a pink/red}. The cylon {crs on the name, one of the male models} told Jammer about human/cylon cooperation, how the juice was made from veggies or fruit on a human/cylon co-op farm. A point was made as the vantage point of the camera changed, that the level in the juice bottle changed. Jammer drank {some of} the juice. I half-wondered if something in the juice would affect him, but concluded it was symbolic. He drank some; he "bought into" the cylons' reasoning, that joining the NC Police would help the humans, that joining was to do good. And that is what Jammer wanted, to do good, to make a positive difference. He "bought the line"; he "drank the Kool-Aide". And as a result, he died. [Like the followers of Jim Jones, who followed an evil man blindly, and in the end, he ordered them to drink poisoned Kool-Aide, and hundreds did, and died.] Now, we have to consider: Jammer told the Chief, honestly, that he was in over his head. This, before the Rescue began; and not as a confessed member of the NC Police, but generically, he said, "some of those guys are in over their heads ..........." The Chief responded that when the Occupation was over, people would "string those guys up", and he himself, and Jammer, would be making the ropes tight. Now, Jammer never INTENDED to betray his people. He was shown as horrified by what he was made to do. He did let Kally go; if intentions mattered, he was not one who wanted to betray, nor joined because he wanted power, or any of the negavtive reasons people sometimes do such things. It came out that he helped Kally, but it wasn't enough. He was killed anyway. Jammer was confused by his options during the occupation. Duck joined up too, but was open that he did so as a means of some form of sabatoge, gaining inside information, something to help the Resistance; and of course, eventually, became a suicide bomber and gave up his life to the Resistance. Jammer is no less dead, but his motives were no less positive. He was young, confused by the situation, wanted to make things better, and thought that maybe cooperation was the best way to do that. His is an example to think about. Death is final. Killing Jammer won't restore life to the others who died. He was very sorry for what happened, but he never intended it. Sort of like a person who is involved in an auto accident where their vehicle kills people. They never intended it to happen. We do punish people for "vehicular homicide" but don't treat them the same as people who deliberately murder people, and don't give them the death penalty. Interesting too: Jammer offered the evidence that he did some good {saving Kally} but it wasn't accepted, believed, or treated as a mitigating factor. Gaeta offered no defense; only because he had tried to explain to Starbuck earlier, and that SHE spoke up, saved him. And if he HAD attempted to explain, would any have listened? The Circle SAID they were holding "trials", and not just seeking revenge. Yet, when they came to Gaeta, they immediately agreed they actually had NO EVIDENCE against him, but promptly convicted him anyway. Shoving people out of airlocks in self-righteous anger may be very satisfying, but they were not at all successful at seperating the sheep from the goats. But as for Jammer being a cylon? I don't see it. He was a young and confused human, who did the wrong thing for the right reason. And paid with his life. The show does not tell you what to think about that: Was his sentence "justice", or not? You are intended to think about it, but the value judgement is yours to make, and some viewers will see it one way, some another. If you are thinking about it at all, the writers got their point across.
    your

    your whole theory on jammer punishmnet is wrong. The crime is treason. the punishment is death. his intenton didnt change the crime. I would have put him to death aswell. As soon as he started arresting people he deserved death, he didnt save callie, he just decided he wouldnt betray her, Do we see a pedophile as doing something right when just as he is about to kill the little girl, he frees her and says run, uhhhhhhhh no!!!

    rosolin was bang out of order, with everything at stake, humanity on the brink of existance, and she pardons those responsible for very nearly ending the human race (the fleet aside).  Those mc police actuyally collaberated with the enemy that killed billions of humans and litterally ended the world, I personally would have had their organs harvested first

    gater in the other hand, his stpryline was to show that if you are going to use the, trying to help defense, that is how you do it, his whole situation was done perfectly, he genuinly was trying to help, jammer though was saving his own skin, in essence, when you become the monster, the closet doesnt scare yo0u as much

    Edited on 10/31/2006 2:15am
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  • Avatar of Redbird89

    Redbird89

    [65]Oct 31, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    Redbird89 wrote:
    Great episode!

    The new Starbuck actually scares me to death. She is downright evil at the moment..


    Ok, I know I'm a fan and all, but that seems a little heavy handed if you ask me. It's not like she continued to beat on Gaeta even after Tyrol hauled her off. Neither did she do more than speak to Anders, when it was obvious to me that she wanted to do a whole lot more...and in the end there she kissed him goodbye.

    Right now, obviously she's got a white hot fury. But I wouldn't quite qualify her as evil. Highly disturbed...with more than enough reason yes, evil, not quite!

    Starbuck will need time, and who knows what else! But she's gonna pull outta this stronger than ever...


    I don't really think she is evil. My statement was for dramatical effect. I was just trying to get my point across that I think she is in a deep dark place right now.
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [66]Oct 31, 2006
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    Redbird89 wrote:
    StelingMB wrote:
    Redbird89 wrote:
    Great episode!

    The new Starbuck actually scares me to death. She is downright evil at the moment..


    Ok, I know I'm a fan and all, but that seems a little heavy handed if you ask me. It's not like she continued to beat on Gaeta even after Tyrol hauled her off. Neither did she do more than speak to Anders, when it was obvious to me that she wanted to do a whole lot more...and in the end there she kissed him goodbye.

    Right now, obviously she's got a white hot fury. But I wouldn't quite qualify her as evil. Highly disturbed...with more than enough reason yes, evil, not quite!

    Starbuck will need time, and who knows what else! But she's gonna pull outta this stronger than ever...


    I don't really think she is evil. My statement was for dramatical effect. I was just trying to get my point across that I think she is in a deep dark place right now.


    Agreed...she certainly is in a dark, blinding place!

    In an odd way she's always been part of the hope of the show! Having come from such a horrid childhood, she's been able to turn that anger in to something worthwhile (flying Vipers to protect the fleet).
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  • Avatar of Writer2000

    Writer2000

    [67]Nov 1, 2006
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    I have now watched this episode two times. I thought that it was absolutely great. After having watched Collaborators  two times, I have the following comments to make:

    1) It was great to see Roslin reinststated as the president, and I think that she is a great leader. I really liked that she decided to pardon those involved with occupation. It was the right thing to do given the fact that she's constantly saying that everyone in the fleet needs to be making babies since the human population is currently greatly diminished. She's right about the fact that they need to try and move forward as the human race. I'm also hoping that now that Roslin is president again, she'll be featured more in the episodes since she's my #1 favorite character.

    2) I really liked that Tyrol was heavily featured in this episode. He's another one of my favorite characters.

    3) I loved the scene where Baltar was begging Number Six not to leave him and she left him anyway. It really made me laugh a lot when Baltar was muttering himself about how he should have started out by telling Number Six that he loved her after she had already left him. That was extremely hilarious. That scene is deifnitely now one of my most favorite scenes of all time.

    4) Tigh continues to make me hate him more and more with each passing episode, but to be fair, I've never liked him to begin with. As a sidenote, I was watching the third season of The L Word on DVD the other day and I realized that Michael Hogen is the actor who plays the father of one of the women on the show, and I don't like the character he plays on that show either. His real life wife also played his characters wife on The L Word. I do really like his wife as an actress, although I can't remember her name at the moment. I don't why, but I just tend to hate any character that Michael Hogan plays. I'm hoping that somewhere down the line that they kill Tigh off.

    5) I have to say that I am really enjoying Starbuck this season. I liked her in seasons one and two, but she was never one of my most favorite characters until season three started. I also really liked that she sat with Gaeta at the end of the episode. I thought that was very nice of her.

    These are just a few of my opinions. I know that Starbuck is a very popular, and I hope that I don't upset anyone too much by saying that I haven't loved Starbuck in the past. Please, take my opinions for what you will.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [68]Nov 1, 2006
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    It was Tyrol who sat with Gaeta at the end of the episode, not Kara. I doubt Kara would do that. Even though she knows Gaeta saved her life, she would still probably kick him again. She's out for revenge against anyone.
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  • Avatar of Writer2000

    Writer2000

    [69]Nov 1, 2006
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    123home123 wrote:
    It was Tyrol who sat with Gaeta at the end of the episode, not Kara. I doubt Kara would do that. Even though she knows Gaeta saved her life, she would still probably kick him again. She's out for revenge against anyone.


    Whoops. Sorry about the mix up. I was really tired the first time that I watched the episode, and I just watched the episode for the second time last night. I've had a very busy day today and my mind has also been a little jumbled today about a lot of things, so that's probably why I thought Starbuck had been the one to sit with Gaeta. Regardless of who sat with Gaeta, I still think it's nice that someone sat with him considering how mad everyone is at him right now because of his role in the occupation.
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  • Avatar of wedgeantilles54

    wedgeantilles54

    [70]Nov 1, 2006
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    Well the whole thing was kinda crazy anyway

    and i think starbuck is going to have something major to have her snap out the state shes in and return to her old self and what happens to her relationship with anders from hear on?

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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [71]Nov 1, 2006
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    I don't think things are over for those two; YET! Although if I'm wrong that means Anders is a serious idiot. I mean you don't give up on the girl that jumped half-way across the galaxy to rescue you...specially when she's obviously suffred some major crap! If he is that kinda guy...he's no way near good enough for the Great Beloved One!

    As for something major...yup something dang serious is gonna have to get Starbuck through all this.
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  • Avatar of 3dot14_basic

    3dot14_basic

    [72]Nov 2, 2006
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    Here is a question related to the other storyline:

    The Cylons were 3-3 with Six as the tie breaker. (and seems Six voted to allow Baltar live)

    But where are the other 5 models? still on the colonies? in storage?
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [73]Nov 2, 2006
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    That is unexplained. We've been speculating about this on the Cylon Register thread but no one has any definitive answers. It's possible that those models aren't represented on that Cylon basestar group. They may have remained on the Cylon homeworld, wherever that may be. They could have been overthrown or eliminated by the 7 models we know about. Your guess is as good as ours.
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  • Avatar of Angusto

    Angusto

    [74]Nov 3, 2006
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    Do we actually know that Six voted for Baltar to live because from what I remember she was still undecided when the episode ended? While it seems unlikely Baltar will die, I'm not sure that she has actually voted yet otherwise why would Baltar need to convince the Cylons to keep him alive.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [75]Nov 3, 2006
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    It actually seemed like Caprica Six was going to vote against Baltar. However Baltar could convince some other model of his usefulness to the Cylons. I think he would say and do almost anything to stay alive.
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [76]Nov 3, 2006
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    StelingMB wrote:
    trackstarbuck wrote:
    I see the future. KARA/GAETA! lol! but seriously... it could happen.


    Track...no...man, Gaeta would be the girl in that relationship!!!

    Baltars scenes in this ep were creepy yet amusing, I kep getting a "Rocky Horror Picture Show" feeling from them. And Baltar was the Susan Sarandon character. Wayyy out of his element and seriously freaked out!!!

    ur just afraid of DESTINY! i have seen it. plus, w/ stabuck the guy is ALWAYS the girl in the relationship.
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  • Avatar of trackstarbuck

    trackstarbuck

    [77]Nov 3, 2006
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    pashao wrote:
    Some excellent points and views have been raised in previous posts and I agree with this a great episode. My only regret is that Thrace is back and she’s gonna be meaner than ever. I kinda liked the glimpses we got of the loved up softer side of Kara. Now that she’s dumped Anders I feel all hells gonna break loose. Her actions towards Gaeta were only the tip of the iceberg, I fear. When she was laying into the poor guy I thought “oh no she’s back”. I was never very fond of the wild child Starbuck. Someone give her some Prozac please.

    *shrugs* hey, not everyone can handle us. tomboys play rough.
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