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Discussion - "Crossroads, Part 1" (3/18/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of sharissunmee

    sharissunmee

    [81]Mar 20, 2007
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    I've been seeing a lot of spoilers about Tigh, Tyrol Anders and Tory (couldn't remember her last name)being cylons. A few things just don't add up for me for them being the final 5. First of all, as far as anyone knows, none of the skin cylons age. I remember a direct reference by Dean Stockwell's character about not caring how long it takes to find earth. Soooo, we've seen flashbacks of Tigh when he was younger, which I would think would eliminate him unless he's some sort of old aging cylon...which doesn't make sense to me. And Tyrol has a kid, so he can't be one of the 5. Anders and Tory, meh, sure, whatever. I was kind of hoping Tyrol would be one of the 5 prophets, seeing as he took that mad walk and found the temple. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll be disappointed if BSG let it all leak so easily.
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  • Avatar of Libaax

    Libaax

    [82]Mar 20, 2007
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    Lee isnt half the man Helo is cause Helo does things cause he of what he believes is right, Lee on the other hand does thing lately to make his father angry.

    I dont think for one second Helo would do anything to put the fleet in danger, there is a time to do whats right and there is time to do whats neccessary, he knows that.

    If Lee wasnt Adama's son he wouldnt be where he is rankwise, he is so bad officer, i dont wanna see him as Cag or EXO ever again, its time he stopped riding on his fathers back.
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  • Avatar of dezigner4web

    dezigner4web

    [83]Mar 20, 2007
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    Libaax wrote:
    Lee isnt half the man Helo is cause Helo does things cause he of what he believes is right, Lee on the other hand does thing lately to make his father angry. I dont think for one second Helo would do anything to put the fleet in danger, there is a time to do whats right and there is time to do whats neccessary, he knows that. If Lee wasnt Adama's son he wouldnt be where he is rankwise, he is so bad officer, i dont wanna see him as Cag or EXO ever again, its time he stopped riding on his fathers back.


    I think the writers have listened to the viewer feedback regarding this very thing. Doesn't it feel exactly like this is why the law books were handed down, why Lee is suddenly (of all people, makes no sense) acting as legal council. I mean it doesn't make storyline sense unless the fans influenced this decision to do something else with Lee.

    I seriously think this might be a very smart move for his character arc.

    Edited on 03/20/2007 11:00am
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  • Avatar of tripping82

    tripping82

    [84]Mar 20, 2007
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    sharissunmee wrote:
    First of all, as far as anyone knows, none of the skin cylons age. I remember a direct reference by Dean Stockwell's character about not caring how long it takes to find earth.

     

    Dean Stockwell's character doesn't care how long it takes to find Earth because they can always download themselves into a new (younger) body whenever they want.  It was never stated that Cylons don't age.  We don't know that for sure that they don't age, we can only speculate.

     

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  • Avatar of r666l

    r666l

    [85]Mar 20, 2007
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    Baltar is GOD!

    I like that Lee is defending him

    When they'll reach the Earth I hope Baltar will give his blessing to my child. He is the new Jesus!

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  • Avatar of greenbat22

    greenbat22

    [86]Mar 20, 2007
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    I really thought Racetrack's number was up. Whew.

    Maybe it's just me but Anders and Seelix looked particularly glam.

    Apollo's become pretty pathetic as a character this season. It's a shame considering how much he stepped up in his two "Hand episodes". He's sunk so low with these father/grandfather issues. I definitely felt it when Madame Airlock remembered the "Captain Apollo" of old. So did I.

    Adama got to be a real A-hole as well. Tigh's love affair with the bottle is more legendary than Karapollo. Combine that knowledge with a drunk Saul bent over Ellen and Baltar and a plastic spade is all Lampkin would've needed for digging himself. Not that it kept Bill from a glass and spouting bile at his idealistic son. Crotchety old fraks... I was partly pleased to see him get shot down when he tried to flex his muscle in court. Not that that excuses Apollo for relinquishing his rank and readying his guns at Roslin in a silent fit at daddy.

    I don't really think highly of Dee leaving Lee. Heh...Dee'n'Lee. Anyway, Dee leaving Lee made her seem smaller in my eyes. That's your husband right there. He hasn't abused you and wants a stab at a good marriage. He doesn't require your unconditional approval but you're leaving him when he needs a column to stand by. Looks like Dee was serious when she told Lee early in the season that the resemblance to the old man was (partly?) why she married him. Maybe "mister" doesn't sound as good to her as "major".

    tripping82 wrote:

    Did anyone else notice Helo's reaction where Roslin was on the stand and explained the Hera cured her cancer? It looked like he didn't know about that and seemed a little angry.



    I think he was just irked remembering how Roslin then KIDNAPPED his baby and faked her DEATH. Even Saint Helo has his limits.

    I wish there was more clarification on why people have started worshipping Baltar. It's like someone tired of the Hussein likeness and decided to throw in a little Manson.

    Roslin's cancer wasn't too surprising to me. Since myths and prophecies are treated almost as irrefutable evidence this season, I remembered the bit about the guide who doesn't make it to the finish line.

    Looks like we're going to get a number of outed Cylons before the end, suspicious behavior this episode being Anders, Tigh, and Tory's. I think Helo's got his work cut out for him if he's gonna save the fleet in part 2. And get promoted to Major.
    Edited on 03/20/2007 12:26pm
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  • Avatar of guru8376

    guru8376

    [87]Mar 20, 2007
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    Libaax wrote:
    I think Lee is now, a lowlive scum who just feels sorry for himself cause he cant be as good as his father. I so loved when Adama senior said "and i wont have an officer under my command who doesnt have any"

    To do what he is doing against people that trusted him only cause he wants to make his father angry like some child.

    Good for Dee leaving the fool.

    Lucky for the lawyer to have someone as easy as Lee to play.

    I wonder what the heck is what people hearing things like some song, i mean Anders,Tory,Tigh. I thought Tigh was losing it cause of his wife but maybe not.
    I think Adama was letting his feelings towards Roslin cloud his judgement on this one, its probably the first real mistake i've seen Adama Sr. make.

    I also don't understand people why keep complaining about how this is so out of character for Lee. Early in the series he repeatedly stood up for the civilian government, for proper process and order. Roslin appreciated him then cause he was on her side, but now that they are on opposite sides has something really changed? Lee will find his feet and show everyone that his cause is "just" (at least if you believe the spoilers he will). He always seems to start off shaky but comes through in the end.
    Edited on 03/20/2007 1:19pm
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  • Avatar of Libaax

    Libaax

    [88]Mar 20, 2007
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    Adama sr still had a point, Lee has been acting like he is doing now for a time ,even his father couldnt aviod seeing the truth anymore.

    It doesnt matter if they make him being "right" his reason for joining the other side was stupid.

    I would hope he never joined the military again but he is the holy son of the admiral so they will always take him back no matter what he does.....

    I cant stand Lee anymore, even his lame big love thing with Kara was better than what he is now.

    I really hope they could stop focusing soo much on him. There are soo many other much more interesting character. First his big love arc with Kara and now this....
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  • Avatar of AthenaAurora

    AthenaAurora

    [89]Mar 20, 2007
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    Guru 8376, you are definitely right about Lee's shaky character. He boarded the Galactica with a chip on his shoulder from the beginning .He only seems to take action when it comes to his doubts and fears without thinking of the consequences. Sure he was hangin' with the Pres for a while but that got boring when she seemed to move more towards his fathers side. Return of the Angst. When Uri said "You won't pull the trigger. You're not like me." He had no problem with being judge,jury and executioner. Consequence he lost the hooker and part of his moral soul and now he wants to save someone just as evil. When Kara said "Yeah, you think about it Lee, it's what you do best." Consequence he lost Kara.When his father questioned his integrity and said "I won't have an officer serve under me who has none." Lee shot back again by handing in his resignation. Consequence he lost the respect of his father. Almost everything he chooses turns out bad because he doesn't think about the consequences. I'm sure his dad will give him the keys to the viper again. Anything to get him out of the courtroom and that dreadful suit. Ha,ha. Tanx!

    Hey all you feminists. Why not Dee for XO? She did run the Pegasus while Lee was chowing.She spotted the Cylons through the Dradis while Lee was talking to his ex. She's not married to the enemy. She get's along with everyone and despite he election duties she's been pretty solid on the bridge? Her biggest lack of judgement comes from dealing with Lee.

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  • Avatar of Libaax

    Libaax

    [90]Mar 20, 2007
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    You described Lee very well Athena!

    Yeah Dee i thought would get promoted after Pegasus, she is another proof The chief and Baltar were right about the class thing.
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  • Avatar of dezigner4web

    dezigner4web

    [91]Mar 20, 2007
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    Libaax wrote:
    You described Lee very well Athena! Yeah Dee i thought would get promoted after Pegasus, she is another proof The chief and Baltar were right about the class thing.

    Sagittaron prejudice? Probably.
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  • Avatar of SupremeLegate

    SupremeLegate

    [92]Mar 20, 2007
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    I just had a though, actually I had it a couple days ago. In a pervious episode it was stated that the Cylons chose Earth to be their new home, hence the reason they are fallowing the colonial fleet. My thought is, what if the Cylons are in the same predicament and the colonial fleet. What if the Cylon fleet that is fallowing the Colonial fleet is all that’s left of the Cylons.
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  • Avatar of PineTreeMouse

    PineTreeMouse

    [93]Mar 20, 2007
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    Had a thought about the whole "who is a cylon" question. I started to think about how Roslin has got cancer again given the alleged properties of the blood given to her. Then I thought who the donors parents are: Helo and Boomer (now Athena).

    What if the reason the blood transfusion didn't hold is that the Hera is the first pure Cylon offspring ie. Helo is one of the five? I can't believe that there would be more than one of the five wandering around with the fleet (the odds of more than one of the five turning up with the survivors must be pretty small) and Helo did meet up with Galactica later on (yes so did Anders but I'll be very disappointed if he turns out to be one of the Five - rather he'd be one of the five Priests, with the music being the "music" from the nebula...).

     Don't know why but it seems to have a kind of logic to it...
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  • Avatar of Mangalore

    Mangalore

    [94]Mar 20, 2007
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    AthenaAurora wrote:
    ...Consequence he lost Kara.When his father questioned his integrity and said "I won't have an officer serve under me who has none." Lee shot back again by handing in his resignation. ...


    Actually Lee resigned first saying "I can't serve under someone who question his integrity" and Adama answers Lee has none.
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  • Avatar of AthenaAurora

    AthenaAurora

    [95]Mar 20, 2007
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    You're right. Still what was the result? Was wondering? Were they going to reveal the final five this season or the next as a teaser? Because they still haven't revealed the..."One will discover they are a Cylon" yet. Sorry don't mean to get into any spoiler discussions but... I also wonder if the music that they're hearing isn't some kind of homing device. Maybe one of them recognized the fuel ships trail as a diversion that could temporarily be used as an excuse as to why the fleet was being followed. That way it would throw suspicion off them when the music started. Who is going to care if a half crazed drunk is hearing music anyway? Maybe they've been implanted to do several sabatoge missions when the fleet actually gets a fix on earth. Was also wondering if some of the final five are some of the people that got killed in earlier episodes since they always like to sneak back to previous episodes for clarifications and shock value?
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  • Avatar of greenbat22

    greenbat22

    [96]Mar 20, 2007
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    I'm having funny thoughts at the possible candidates and Athena with a big ****-eater grin on her face.

     "Hey, Tigh, slap me some Cylon skin!"

    "Cally, good news: you don't have to always kiss Tyrol for breakfast, lunch, and dinner anymore!" 

    "Well, Kara, I guess Sam is preferable to the baby machines!"

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  • Avatar of dezigner4web

    dezigner4web

    [98]Mar 21, 2007
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    PineTreeMouse wrote:
    What if the reason the blood transfusion didn't hold is that the Hera is the first pure Cylon offspring ie.


    They did say Hera was the first of her kind. But I still cant help but feel like Casey is Kara's after all and the mother on board the ship is only the surrogate mother. Technically not the "first" to be carried by a Cylon.

    Could the 5 be children produced from the farm, with Hera being the 5th?

    It could explain why they dont want to talk about them, or seem to know about them. They might be hidden.
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  • Avatar of nightbird47

    nightbird47

    [99]Mar 21, 2007
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    I also don't understand people why keep complaining about how this is so out of character for Lee. Early in the series he repeatedly stood up for the civilian government, for proper process and order. Roslin appreciated him then cause he was on her side, but now that they are on opposite sides has something really changed? Lee will find his feet and show everyone that his cause is "just" (at least if you believe the spoilers he will). He always seems to start off shaky but comes through in the end.
    [/QUOTE]

    Lee is just doing what he's been doing since the series began.  He made his own solution to the prison riot with Zarek.  He tried to defend Rosyln when Tigh went off into la la land.  Now, he's taking his own directions again, embrassing the life he always wanted as his grandfather.

    He's sticking it to his father but I think he genuinely believes that things have gone to far and Baltar really deserves a fair trial.  I wish they'd included the bonus scene in the show, since its very telling when Lampkin asks him if he's ready to be an outcast.

    It looks like Lee is back in uniform next week.  They don't have enough experienced pilots for dad to keep a grudge and not let him back in, but at what rank is of question.  And even if he goes back to flying, will Dee come back?  Will he be treated as much as a parriah as Gaeta was when he'd first left New Caprica?

    I think that this act will never quite be forgiven by his father and many others and Lee will have to come to terms with that.

    Nightbird

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  • Avatar of ebv001

    ebv001

    [100]Mar 21, 2007
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    There a lot of talk about Anders being one of the final five. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me though. Why would Leoben take Starbuck away from Anders if he were a cylon. Granted he may not know who the final 5 are, but I don't see the shows producers letting that happen. Tyrol also seems highly unlikely to be a Cylon due to the fact that the show has swayed emphasis from his character away the last couple of episodes after he and Cally almost died and after Dirty Hands where he was a central figure in the show.

    Looking at the main cast, you already have 2 Cylons in Six and Athena, if everybody from the main cast is a cylon theres really not much left. I do think Tory has a good chance to be a Cylon, and I'm looking for somebody previously thought dead to come back the show as a Cylon for the shock value (Billy, Elen Tigh, etc).
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