Battlestar Galactica Forums

Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Daybreak, Part 1" (3/13/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of zukiki

    zukiki

    [21]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 103

    May as well drop the spoiler tag from the thread, cause there ain't much to spoil =P

    Overall though, I liked the episode. The Flashbacks were a nice twist, something unexpected. Frankly, I don't think they were supposed to have a point just yet. I'm sure as both story lines progress in part two, more parallels will become apparent.

    That said, I think the main story could have been paced a bit better. I though it was weird that they skipped over Anders scene telling them where Hera is. It seemed too abrupt for me. I can't tell if it was cut for time, or if maybe he revealed something else that will become important later. Also I would have liked more of a cliff hanger ending (ie. make the jump to the cylon ship or something). And I'm getting concerned, like most people about covering this epic space battle, finding the promised land, laura's dramatic death scene, the opera house, hera, kara, other smaller questions they've been meaning to answer, and more flashbacks all in two hours (or an hour and a half w/o commercials). Regardless of how this all unfold, you're going to have a lot of unhappy fans next week, should be interesting

    Edited on 03/14/2009 6:46am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of august29

    august29

    [22]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 03/08/04
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 72
    I think this is a decent episode. Contrary to the nay sayers from those who posted before me, I think something very significant happened. Can't put my finger on it yet. Its like you missed something yet somehow you know you missed it. Anyway, the character background will definitely show us why these people did or will do in the finale.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of AndreasOS

    AndreasOS

    [23]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 05/21/04
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 50

    Invader_of_53 wrote:
    or how Tigh, who has accepted his Cylon nature, still seems to go through the motions as if he were human.

    I like the way Tigh has reacted to it. I think it speaks to the true nature of the Human form Cylons, and the Final Five. And it just seems right. After all, they came to the Colonies to try to prevent the same cycle of destruction happening again, to save their human brothers and sisters, and Saul's attitude of "Whatever I am, I'm an officer of the Colonial Fleet" to me sums that all up nicely...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [24]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 11/22/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 5,528
    Despite what everybody thought, I thought that this was a great episode. Remember, despite the fact that next week is the "final episode," it's really the equivolent of a 3-part episode, since the last episode is 2 hours long. I find that whenever a show has 2-part episodes, it's usually the first part that suffers, and the last part that gains the most. In the past, the second parts of the 2-part episodes on BSG have been absolutely amazing. Easily some of the best, and most epic of the series. With that being said, I don't see this as being any different, and we will get an amazing series finale, or the equivolent of both a second and third part of this episode.

    Don't expect the flashbacks to stop in the next episode. But also, don't under-estimate their importance. They may have seemed minor in this episode, mainly being used as a kind of contrast to their current characters, but I got the feeling that there is a lot that we, and they, are not seeing. And I think that in the next episode we will see more of that, and become more aware of their importance.

    As I said, though, this episode seemed to suffer from being the first part of a 2-part (or 3-part depending on how you look at it) episode. We didn't get a whole lot of advancement of the plot, didn't see what the importance of the flashbacks. We didn't get much closer to the final confrontation between Galactica and Cavil, except for what most of us were already expecting. And a lot of it felt incomplete due to its nature. But I have a lot of faith in the writers. I've loved this half of the season so far, for the most part, and I don't think the writers will let us down.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Daxx00004

    Daxx00004

    [25]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 02/05/07
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 1,263
    I personally was happy with the episode. Feels like act one. Lots of set up. Loved the scene with Kara and Adama. " I know who you are, you are my daughter". So fitting that father and son accept her. I feel that Baltar really has changed, he may be saving Hera in the dream at the opera house. They use the flashbacks to show how far these characters have come, how much they have changed.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [26]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 06/03/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 411

    I'm the only one that rated this episode "Good" (so far) Perhaps that'll change. I hope they were emulating "Lost" with the flashbacks as those usually do play an important role in the show but I wonder how these will play out and why they're important.

    The death of Rosalyn's sisters. (One Pregnant)

    Caprica six doing a truely decent thing in helping Baltar's farther out. Notice how they avoided giving her a name?

    Kara and Zack Adama inviting Lee over to meet Kara. Lee getting very drunk an shooing a pigon.

    William Adama being asked to do something he didn't want to do. Did I miss something? What was being asked of him? To decomission Galactica?

    I agree with this being a "Bookend" but 2 hours seems to be precious little time for all the loose ends to get wrapped up.

    Mr BO

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [27]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 11/22/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 5,528
    MrBovineOrdure wrote:
    William Adama being asked to do something he didn't want to do. Did I miss something? What was being asked of him? To decomission Galactica?


    I'm not really sure about what specific part you're asking about. But in the last episode, he made up his mind about abandoning Galactica, and in this episode, he decinded to go get Hera with whoever joined him. In the last episode, Starbuck and the Cylons came to him, talking about the song that Starbuck learned as a kid, activated the Cylon's memories, and which Hera drew for Starbuck. They brought up the possibility that, if all of this happened, it could mean something greater is in play, that the song means more than anybody though, and Hera is very important, and it's their destiny to go after her. After they said that, he said he's fed up with all the mysticism and all that, which has proven nothing but trouble. It's gotten them to Earth only to have it taken away by it haven been destroyed. But in this episode, he made the decision to do what everybody has been saying, and go after her.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of zukiki

    zukiki

    [28]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 05/15/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 103
    He was referring to Adama's Flashback scene. I'd have to watch the miniseries again, to see if there was any link. It's been too long. Maybe it's something different all together
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [29]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 11/22/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 5,528
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that.

    I think that Adama said something about leading thousands of people or something like that... Not sure though. I got the feeling that it had something to do with Galactica itself though. Maybe accepting command of it before the attack, because he was already in charge of the ship, and ready for retirement before the attack on Caprica, so it may just be leading to that.

    Although I am a bit fuzzy on the scene right now, so I don't know for sure. TBH, I was a bit caught off guard by the fact that it went straight to that scene instead of continuing with the theme song. So if anybody who remembers more specifically about what was said between them, any info would be appreciated.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Drewligarchy

    Drewligarchy

    [30]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/12/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 14

    I genuinely like this episode and the flashbacks, and I'm certain that they will have increasing relevance in the context of the finale.

    And, while I didn't mind that the plot did not move forward significantly, I was a bit dissapointed that the writers skipped over a few seemingly important plot points - in an effort to easily resolve them. Specifically:

    - Tyrol going to the brig for aiding in Boomer's escape, and immediately forgiven after his decision to join the final mission. Also, I was a bit surprised that Helo wasn't angrier with the chief - as he was essentially the reason that his daughter was kidnapped. Regardless of the fact that the chief was essentially duped, I can't believe that Helo and Athena wouldn't direct more of their anger towards him.

    - Adama's change of heart regarding searching for Hera, and Ander's solution to the musical riddle. I really liked how this was introduced in "Someone to watch over me" and thought the idea that this song, essentially holds the key to everything on a deeper level, was clever. Thus I was dissapointed that they didn't provide a satisfactory explanation for what it actually meant - and just left us with the assumption that it provided directions to the Cylon colony. Since when do the Hybrid's provide any information that is easily decrypted? Wasn't Kara sitting in there with Anders for days on end? Why did Adama's question immediately provide the solution?

    - Kara's revelation that she found her dead body on earth. This didn't seem to phase anyone in the least. Also, I was a bit confused as I felt this may have been revealed to some earlier in the season during the mutiny, when Hoshi (I think) said to Kara "We don't even know what you are anymore".

    I guess my main point is that I don't mind if the plot takes on a plodding tone with character development and flashbacks. In fact, this is something I genuinely enjoy most about the show. What bother's me is when this causes the writers to skip through relevant plot points - which make it more difficult to suspend disbelief. One of the great things about the show is the level of detail - someone mentioned Kara in the bathroom while Baltar is shaving. The show does such a good job of depicting actual human reaction to terrible events, that when apparently large plot points are ignored - it feels like it cheapens it just a bit.

    I do, however, have high hopes for the finale - and I'm hoping that some of the aforementioned will be addressed in greater detail.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BHSWorkstation

    BHSWorkstation

    [31]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 01/17/09
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 35

    ON THE FENCE. This episode seems to be a bit polarizing. I'm in the middle. I would've liked to see a bit more addressed. As my wife says, they should answer at least ONE big question a week. It would have been nice, for example, if Rosalyn had been given an episode to address her own death rather than having it crammed in with all the other loose ends. In this case (the music revealing a specific location), they sort of tiptoed around it. Final revelations would be wasted during the final confilct while we're caught up in the action - maybe they're being saved for after the battle.

    THE FINAL FLASHBACKS. I am one of the people that LOVE the character development but agree the time for that has long past (with maybe one important exception). If the flashbacks are just more character development, then at this point in the game I have to agree they are a waste of time. I do, however, get the impression that they are leading to something more (PLEASE!!). My wife who is Japanese had a very Buddhist take on the flashbacks. She said that in a Buddhist context, flashbacks are often used as a foreshadowing of death - perhaps our equivalent of a life flashing before before one's eyes in the face of death. Obviously Rosalyn is going to go. It seemed VERY clear to me that Baltar is about to go. So perhaps all of the people in the flashbacks are on the way to that great resurrection hub in the sky.

    ALL HAIL LORD BALTAR. I haven't noticed many commenting upon it, but the most crucial set-up of the episode was the conversation between Lee and Baltar. Along with the final confrontation with the Cylons, I believe this episode was a set-up for Baltar's destiny. I firmly believe that point being made about Baltar never having done anything selfless was the motivation for his final character arc. He has always been viewed as a "Christ figure." Now I think he will get his chance to be selfless and sacrifice himself for his people and prove his sincerity. I think Baltar is going to be made a Saint (what could be more unexpected than that?) and possibly sacrifice himself and save the rest of humanity.

    THE FUTURE. I also think next week's preview gave some very significant clues to what is going to happen but I'll save that for the Part 2 discussion thread. I'm really looking forward to the conflict if not specifically answers to all of the questions.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [32]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 11/22/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 5,528
    BHSWorkstation wrote:
    I haven't noticed many commenting upon it, but the most crucial set-up of the episode was the conversation between Lee and Baltar. Along with the final confrontation with the Cylons, I believe this episode was a set-up for Baltar's destiny. I firmly believe that point being made about Baltar never having done anything selfless was the motivation for his final character arc. He has always been viewed as a "Christ figure." Now I think he will get his chance to be selfless and sacrifice himself for his people and prove his sincerity.


    Yeah, I noticed that, and thought something similar. These last couple episodes have had moments like that, where it seems to be leading up to Gaius' role in the finale next week. With his increased religious talks (strengthened through Starbuck's resurrection), his scene with Six in the last episode where she confronts him about not changing, showing him in a contrast with his past self before the attack on Caprica, his talk with Apollo, and finally him choosing to go with Adama and the others on Galactica (also looking at Caprica before he decides to go, bringing back their talk in the previous episode and the contrast that occurred in the flashback). I can easily see something important happening, like him sacrificing himself, or something like that in the finale.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [33]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/18/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 87

    It was a good episode. My take on the flashbacks are slightly different. I felt it most resembled the last episode from Star Trek the Next Generation, where that episode showed how the characters behaved when the series began, and contrasts that to the present. It also answered some questions, specifically how six wormed her way into bartar's heart, and how Starbuck met Lee. It also explained how Laura got into politics. (her family died and she was looking for it to fill that void). It also shows how she could react so cooly as a leader, because she already had the worst thing happen to her before the attacks. (her family dying) They did not reveal what the Adama flashback was about this episode.

    I believe Ron Moore when he stated he wanted he wanted the end to be "the end". By showing the characters in the past, he is cutting out anyone doing so in the future. (no future shows or movies without Moore showing what the characters did before the attack) He shows how the main humans left got to where they are now. He tied up the cylon origins and the final five in the previous episodes, and he was doing the same here. So I understand completely what he was trying to do. Adama, Rosalyn, Lee and Baltar are the only main characters left not cylon, so they focused on them and where they were back on Caprica.

    BTW, loved the longing look caprica six gave baltar when they were choosing for the mission. I believe it he stepped over the line, six would have believed he grew and changed. (of course he didn't) This is speculation, but it wouldn't suprise me if Baltar stays with the fleet and everyone else dies in the battle. He will then be the leader again, but maybe be a better leader than before when on New Caprica now that he actually cares about people again.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [34]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 05/01/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 365
    I loved that episodes. A lot of people are saying that they didn't like the flashbacks, and others are looking for some deeper meaning in them. I'm not really sure there is one per se. I think they are like bookends. This is the end. What better way to end than to look back on who everyone was before. Who they were before Zak died, before Laura got involved in politics, back when Baltar first met the woman whose name he never learned. This show was always about the characters. They matter a lot more in my mind than some grand plot resolution. As someone else suggested, it could quite easily be some kind of "Life flashing before their eyes" foreshadowing.

    Someone else had said that they found the final scene of everyone choosing whether they want to stay or go with the Galactica to be too long, but it was important. Seeing most of the family standing together was amazing. Also, little things like seeing Lee back in the uniform, and like seeing Racetrack and Skulls have another crazy discovery/adventure in their raptor (and comment on it too. That was a really amazing touch. Shine a lantern on it), and seeing the empty memory wall. I thought this episode was just beautiful.

    Also to someone who complained that Tyrol was released and forgiven so easily, Adama did say to offer anyone the opportunity to volunteer, including the mutineers. If he is going to forgive the mutineers who actually made the desicion to go against him, then Tyrol, who made a stupid mistake, and was a bad judge of character, can be allowed this opportunity too.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [35]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 05/11/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 28

    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that. I think that Adama said something about leading thousands of people or something like that... Not sure though. I got the feeling that it had something to do with Galactica itself though. Maybe accepting command of it before the attack, because he was already in charge of the ship, and ready for retirement before the attack on Caprica, so it may just be leading to that. Although I am a bit fuzzy on the scene right now, so I don't know for sure. TBH, I was a bit caught off guard by the fact that it went straight to that scene instead of continuing with the theme song. So if anybody who remembers more specifically about what was said between them, any info would be appreciated.

    Two things that I got from the scene with Adama was:

    1. He was in a civilian suit and not a military uniform

    2. The man he was talking to said "it is only one hour out of your life"

    Drewligarchy wrote:
    " Wasn't Kara sitting in there with Anders for days on end? Why did Adama's question immediately provide the solution?".

    Anders wasn't plugged in to the ship before Adama came. He asked Starbuck to plug him in.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [36]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 05/01/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 365
    I didn't notice that he was in a suit. That might actually be important.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Drewligarchy

    Drewligarchy

    [37]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/12/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 14
    hazelnut144 wrote:

    Also to someone who complained that Tyrol was released and forgiven so easily, Adama did say to offer anyone the opportunity to volunteer, including the mutineers. If he is going to forgive the mutineers who actually made the desicion to go against him, then Tyrol, who made a stupid mistake, and was a bad judge of character, can be allowed this opportunity too.


    Yeah ... I commented on this and do remember the Adama amnesty. I feel like the difference here is that Tyrol is essentially welcomed back as a leader - a member of the inner circle - while he, Lee, Starbuck, Bill and Tigh hatch the final plan. Just didn't feel quite right ... but it's not a dealbreaker for me.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Drewligarchy

    Drewligarchy

    [38]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/12/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 14

    Drewligarchy wrote:
    " Wasn't Kara sitting in there with Anders for days on end? Why did Adama's question immediately provide the solution?".

    Anders wasn't plugged in to the ship before Adama came. He asked Starbuck to plug him in.

    I mean, maybe. Kara did mention during this scene that Anders had been saying a whole bunch of things when Anders went off on one of his rants and send something like "A perfect world for the end of Kara Thrace." My point was - didn't this still leave you wanting more? Specifically, what did Adama ask? Should we search for Hera? What's her significance? Where is the Cylon colony? What does the song / musical notes mean? If it was the last - I think they owe us a better answer - since this song has had thematic implications since the finale last season.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [39]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/30/05
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 11,043
    Ok episode although the flashbacks were nice but didn't do much for me. Really didn't need to know the characters more after all these years but as you guys have said it's a bookend so just enjoy the build up till the rescue and dream of what will become of the characters.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [40]Mar 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/30/05
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 11,043

    MrBovineOrdure wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    I'm kind of wondering if my time on TV.com itself is winding down too. (It's a long story and a frustrating one. Though I've never been a troll or gamer, I've been hit with several warnings this past winter because of a serious situation going on at the site, one which I don't agree with.) So you'll have to excuse me a bit if my enthusiasm is lagging for all things TV.com.
    I'm going to miss this site too. I've posted elsewhere, but none with the frequency of the BSG forum. It'll have to wait till there's another show I'm as enthusiastic about. 123home123. 15,000+ posts. Whew! How'd you get here? Became the moderator? What were (in very general terms) the problems this winter? I'm sure others as I would be interested to see your story in another thread. Mr BO

    You two leaving we'll if it's cause of bsg don't forget about Caprica hopefully that'll keep you around but as for the administration of this site that's another dealy.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.