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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Daybreak, Pt. 2 & 3" (3/20/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [221]Mar 23, 2009
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    kbluebig wrote:

    Hungry_Homer111's quote:

    "As for the ambiguous nature of God's true nature and purpous, I understand why some people may hate it being left like that...I honestly am glad that they left it ambiguous like that, because any explanation would feel cheap to me, and might feel too preachy ("There is a God, Hallelujah!," or "There is no God, you religious fools!"). Instead, we're left trying to answer the same questions we do in real life, but with more information?"

    I purposely did NOT want to compare the show's Cylon God to people's real life belief in a higher force. I truly do believe that the Cylon God in the show is a real person or Cylon that orchestrated the events that lead to Hera being the mother of all humanity on earth. That is just my thoughts of the show and NOT real life.

    There is alot of evidence supporting this in the show but the biggest is at the end when vision Baltar asys, "He does not like being called God." But if the movie The Plan, does not explain it like that, meaning they say that it was really some higher force or God that intervened then I will lose all respect for this show. It makes no sense that they would right the ending of the series saying God did it. The belief in the Cylon God was a huge aspect of the show but actually saying the Cylon God was really a god or Thee God goes against what the show did these last 6 years. That is why it only makes sense the the Cylon God is a real Cylon or person or maybe a group.

    P.S. I am thinking the The Cylon God is really Windows Vista, pissed off at everyone for bashing it for being craptastic.



    Again, I can understand why some people may be upset about the ending, and I'm not trying to convince people convince people to change their views of the ending, just explain what I felt of the ending. If you disagree with me, then "agree to disagree" I guess.

    The reason I watch, and love the show is that it does bring in subjects from real life (whether it's moral dilemas, comparisons to real life events like 9/11, or deeper questions like "What is God"), and brings up its own interesting questions, like "do humans even deserve to survive?" and presents these things in interesting ways. The question of "Does God exist?" has been one of these questions from the very beginning, and it's an example of a time when they don't really give a clear indication of what the answer is. It gives us things to interpret, like a somewhat vague comparison between the characters on the show becoming gods, and "God" being an "it" that "doesn't like being called that." It does give us a higher being that manipulates the events that people believe is God, but is it the kind of God that people think of when talking/thinking about God, or is it just a more advanced being like the humans on Galactica were to the primitive people of Earth? What I feel is good about the ending is that people could view it either way. You could be right, and it could be something having to do with the Cylons, a more advanced being, or it could really be a God, in the way that most people view it.

    To be honest (and this isn't just my opinion talking, but what I think is the writers' intetions - but I could be wrong), I don't think we'll be getting an answer to that question in The Plan. I do think he left it that way on purpous, so that people could take from it what they will, and not be told what to believe. If I'm wrong, so be it. I think I'll have the same reaction to it as you would have if they didn't explain it, because I think it would cheapen the effect of what we got, but I don't think it would affect my overall experience of the show. It is, after all, my favorite show of all time, and I don't think it could be hurt by one thing.

    I want to state again, that this is just my opinion of the matter, and that I'm not trying to persuade or argue with anybody who feels differently. I can understand the disappointment with the ending, even if I don't agree. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.
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  • Avatar of ummhaniyyah

    ummhaniyyah

    [222]Mar 23, 2009
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    Agreed, the colony got nuked. Also, even if any of Cavil's Centurions had survived he had had them lobotomized so after he killed himself they would have been leaderless. And without resurrection any remaining humanoid Cylons on the damaged colony would eventually die.
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  • Avatar of ebony_kunoichi

    ebony_kunoichi

    [223]Mar 23, 2009
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    with all due respect to the poster that tried to answer my questions I appreaciate you trying, but I totally disagree that Kobol and it's religion not being an important part of the plot. religion is aserious part of the bigger picture for BSG and for the writers to just leave certain things in the air is just lazy. I enjoyed the episode very much, but i'm not looking at this from some theological stand point. At the end the two virtual beings said that "it" doesnt like to be called god. If they would have left that final scene out of it then I would be kinda alright, but to add that in at the end means that something or someone was working behind the scenes all a long. Hopefully the new show Caprica will explain more about the polytheist vs. monotheist religious aspects of the show.

    So yes, I have been wondering since the beginning why the Lords of Kobol are false god and questions like that. Yeah BSG is about the characters and their emotions, but the some of the reason behind the hatred of humanity by the cylons has to do with religion. They believe that their god is the true one and the Kobol gods are false. Another thing I didnt get is why the cylons, who hate humanity, want to be like them so much? I know that is a deep question that may have many answers. Also I want to know, what part of the DNA designates who is a cylon? So if we are their decendants that means part of our make up is artificial.

    And yes, Kara disappearing was lame. I dont get or except the Jesus thing as a way to explain who or what she was. How did she get on earth in the first place when her viper clearly blew up in the air. I think the writers painted themselves in a corner. Also why even bring up daniel at all then his part in the story was unimportant!!! That made totally no sense what so ever. He wasnt Kara's father, he wasn't "god", he didnt write the song, he was just a sob story and that's all. Just a waste.

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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [224]Mar 23, 2009
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    ebony_kunoichi wrote:

    with all due respect to the poster that tried to answer my questions I appreaciate you trying, but I totally disagree that Kobol and it's religion not being an important part of the plot.



    "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again." The so-called "Lords of Kobol" were humans of the pasts who went through a similar journey as the ones on the show, and the scriptures incorperated their journey, and a warning to the humans of the 13 colonies that "all this will happen again," or at least it can if they aren't careful about progressing too fast, before they're ready for their own advancements.
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  • Avatar of Orionova2

    Orionova2

    [225]Mar 23, 2009
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    This ws the best way they could've ended a show....whose overall storyline was getting more absurd since the beggining of season 4. It was a crap ending.

    The only 5 redeemable qualities were:

    1) Thet first Earth was not actually OUR earth, and that OUR earth was named After the first earth. Nice twist

    2) Hera did eventually lead the fleet to their new home

    3) Head Baltar/Six and the whole religious thing at the end.

    4) Ron Moore appearing at the end and getting 'inspiration for a television show' after reading an article on mitrochondrial eve. And the Hendrix version of All along the Watchtower playing in the background.

    5) Helo surviving at the end!

    BUT...there were sooo many bad things in the finale that ruined the good.

    1) WHY would Adama go apessit at the end and abandon EVERYONE (including Lee), and live like a hobo.

    2) Why didnt Starbuck know she was some sort of 'spritiual' angel? Its like she didnt have a clue until the very end. And how did she come back?

    3) Anders flying into the sun. That was just gay.

    4) What has the President done since the mutiny? Nothing, except stagger around and find Hera for a bit. They should have killed her off long ago. and HOW did she lead them to a new 'home,' which she would never end up seeing herself? (like Moses). SHe DIDNT.

    5) Wtf did BALTAR do that was so significant? HE was my favorite character. And all he did was give a speech half of which made no sense (religiously even), and which Cavil seemed gulible enough to believe.

    6) I can sort of understand why Tyrol killed Tori, but then everyone just goes Apesit and Cavil kills himself? What about the other cylons on the colony? They would presumably still be out there hunting humanity down.

    The Only person who I ended up STILL liking at the end was APOLLO, because he was the only one who ended up acting the most rational. The last good episode of Battlestar I remember was the mutiny. I'll remember BSG the way it WAS, not the way it ended.

    Edited on 03/23/2009 3:49pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Orionova2

    Orionova2

    [226]Mar 23, 2009
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    Also, HOW did the Flashbacks to Caprica before the fall have any relevance to the plot???? IT DIDNT. Especially Roslins
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  • Avatar of abelav78

    abelav78

    [227]Mar 23, 2009
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    chestrix wrote:
    heh, just rewatched the Racetrack portion of the finale. It looked like they armed the weapons but was killed in the initial attack, and the raptor just floated around. Then there was the cease-fire and work began with the 5 cylons. Then the fight begins again, and at that point, an asteroid hits the floating raptor and causes Racetrack's hand to fire the weapon. Is that what happened, and was the timing right? seriously?

    It was the hand of god my friend. A lot of things in the series happened "at the right moment" something logic cannot explain. Just like when Starbuck was left on that planet or asteroid and she finds a raider and pilots it and arrives a second before the fleet jumps away. A higher power intervined in many events and yeah even if we dont like it thats the explanation and works on this show.

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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [228]Mar 23, 2009
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    At first I didn't like the "religious" ending, especially the Kara part. After thinking about it for a while it started to grow on me and now I don't have a problem with it. This show has been heavy on religion from the beginning. Head Six, who turned out to be an angel or other higher being, was talking about "God's Plan" from the very beginning, and controlling events. Even the search for Earth was based on religion. Think about it, the only clues to its whereabouts came from a dying woman on a lot of hallucinogenic drugs interpreting the words of a religious scroll. Sounds like a religious prophet to me. As for Kara just disappearing that pissed me off a little, but the more I think about it there is no scientific way for her to make sense that wouldn't piss me off more so the resurrected prophet who disappeared after her job was done will have to do.

    The part that I still cannot get over is it being our Earth and them abandoning technology to live in caves and mate with Neanderthals. It makes no sense to me. 38,000 technologically advanced people will give it all up and mate with cavemen. Plus I'm sure they taught almost nothing of their technology to their descendants. They landed 150,000 years ago, man's earliest writing is 40,000 years old, and agriculture didn't begin until about 10,000 years ago. If they were actively trying to intermingle with the locals I think it would take less then 110,000 years, or 11 times that of modern human history, to evolve into a more technologically advanced people. Hell, the pyramids are only 6,000 years old, so what the frak were they doing for all of those millennium. The only plausible explanation is that they either forcefully forgot the ability of speech and writing and let the locals figure it out themselves 100,000 years later, or they all died of local diseases with only a handful surviving and being forced to live with the locals.

    For years it has been about breaking the cycle, and now that they have finally learned their lesson they agree to ignore history, start over, and doom the future humans to repeating their mistakes because they will have no knowledge of how AI will always rebel. At the end the Head Six and Baltar returned to see the sad state of affairs and debated whether or not it will happen again.They should have taken the lessons they learned and tried to build a new society. Even if they failed it wouldn't have mattered because by not passing down what they learned they just postponed the next cycle 150,000 years instead of actively trying to break it. Other then that I loved the episode.

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  • Avatar of Endgame65

    Endgame65

    [229]Mar 23, 2009
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    It was still all crap. I mean come on, it was a crappy ending for what should have been great. All their religious mumbo jumbo that kept changing and shouldn't have had nearly as much to do with the story. All crap, and I'm still being generous here.
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  • Avatar of Helostwin

    Helostwin

    [230]Mar 23, 2009
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    mialza wrote:

    The part that I still cannot get over is it being our Earth and them abandoning technology to live in caves and mate with Neanderthals. It makes no sense to me. 38,000 technologically advanced people will give it all up and mate with cavemen. Plus I'm sure they taught almost nothing of their technology to their descendants.



    Absolutely the BEST part of the finale was getting rid of all the technology. BSG is about human (and non-human) relationships, that's what made it great. It's a soap opera fantasy, not technology cr*p. It never pretended to be Star Trek or Star Gate, both of which I hate with a passion.
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  • Avatar of chestrix

    chestrix

    [231]Mar 23, 2009
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    Helostwin wrote:
    mialza wrote:

    The part that I still cannot get over is it being our Earth and them abandoning technology to live in caves and mate with Neanderthals. It makes no sense to me. 38,000 technologically advanced people will give it all up and mate with cavemen. Plus I'm sure they taught almost nothing of their technology to their descendants.



    Absolutely the BEST part of the finale was getting rid of all the technology. BSG is about human (and non-human) relationships, that's what made it great. It's a soap opera fantasy, not technology cr*p. It never pretended to be Star Trek or Star Gate, both of which I hate with a passion.

    you want soap opera fantasy? watch One life to Live or others - they too have supernatural/divine involvement crap.

    abelav78 wrote:

    chestrix wrote:
    heh, just rewatched the Racetrack portion of the finale. It looked like they armed the weapons but was killed in the initial attack, and the raptor just floated around. Then there was the cease-fire and work began with the 5 cylons. Then the fight begins again, and at that point, an asteroid hits the floating raptor and causes Racetrack's hand to fire the weapon. Is that what happened, and was the timing right? seriously?

    It was the hand of god my friend. A lot of things in the series happened "at the right moment" something logic cannot explain. Just like when Starbuck was left on that planet or asteroid and she finds a raider and pilots it and arrives a second before the fleet jumps away. A higher power intervined in many events and yeah even if we dont like it thats the explanation and works on this show.



    I kinda figured that. The more interventions instead of projections of influence, the more divine intervention and order instead of free-will it seems, and the less pronounced the big message. Give up technology and replace it with "God" pulling strings?
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  • Avatar of Canada_Michael

    Canada_Michael

    [232]Mar 23, 2009
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    Helostwin wrote:
    mialza wrote:

    The part that I still cannot get over is it being our Earth and them abandoning technology to live in caves and mate with Neanderthals. It makes no sense to me. 38,000 technologically advanced people will give it all up and mate with cavemen. Plus I'm sure they taught almost nothing of their technology to their descendants.

    Absolutely the BEST part of the finale was getting rid of all the technology. BSG is about human (and non-human) relationships, that's what made it great. It's a soap opera fantasy, not technology cr*p. It never pretended to be Star Trek or Star Gate, both of which I hate with a passion.

    I agree BSG is a soap opera set in space but I don't think a lot of diehard fans would admit that.

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  • Avatar of Helostwin

    Helostwin

    [233]Mar 23, 2009
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    Canada_Michael wrote:
    Helostwin wrote:
    mialza wrote:

    The part that I still cannot get over is it being our Earth and them abandoning technology to live in caves and mate with Neanderthals. It makes no sense to me. 38,000 technologically advanced people will give it all up and mate with cavemen. Plus I'm sure they taught almost nothing of their technology to their descendants.

    Absolutely the BEST part of the finale was getting rid of all the technology. BSG is about human (and non-human) relationships, that's what made it great. It's a soap opera fantasy, not technology cr*p. It never pretended to be Star Trek or Star Gate, both of which I hate with a passion.

    I agree BSG is a soap opera set in space but I don't think a lot of diehard fans would admit that.


    That is exactly what I was trying to say but you phrased it much better. Thanks.
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  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [234]Mar 23, 2009
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    my1sunshine wrote:

    You know.. I couldn't wait to see the finale, and get on this board and have fun discussing the different opinions with people of varied viewpoints who either liked or didn't like it. Instead, the majority of what I see here are a plethora of posters who either have not come here in a while, or I've never seen before to overwhelm the site with bullying negativity. There are SEVERAL threads on this board geared toward negative views, and the same people are coming to the more positive threads to spread their dislike.. most of them repeating and repeating the same views, as if we didn't get it the first ten times already.

    I'm not specificly speaking of this poster, but this has to be the fourth negative thread on this board. Why do we need four? And why do the negative people feel the need to beat back those who try to explain WHY the finale, in their opinion, was good. I've tried to have constructive discussions with opposing viewers, but to no avail. I'd like some listening and responding.

    But the answer is always the same. " No, you're wrong, I'm right. it sucks because it was God who did it". Pounding and pounding that viewpoint ad infinitum.

    I think we get it already.

    I'm sorry, but I couldn't wait to spend the weekend here. I thought this would be the most fun I've ever had on this place. Insead it's a sea of negativity trying to outdo people's fun and enjoyment.

    None of it promotes the constructive discussions that used to appear on this forum. If it was occuring on one or two threads, fine. But it's on four or more.

    Now I couldn't wish to be farther away from this board.

    How dissapointing.

    Ah, I hear you, but don't let it get you down. I reviewed the episode and rated it a 10, I loved it. But try to be open minded to those who didn't. They are fans and this was the last Battlestar and they were kinda crushed. Its understandable. TV is a form or art after all. Some people look at a painting and see greatness, other see crap. Its the nature of art. Its subjective. Before Battlestar, my last favorite show was the soprano's. If you wanted to see a nuclear blast of negativity on message boards after a finale, you should have been there..lol this is a love fest compared to that..lol "fade to black THEN NOTHING!!!" lol They were practically weilding torches and pitchforks Star Trek Enterprise ending? The trekkers cried! Even the actress on the show said the finale was appalling! lol

    They wanted an explanation to the plot and the writers were more interested in touching character moments and saying goodbye than answering the questions. That is really what it comes down to. The people who liked the finale were like me. I didn't care about the FTL drives and the opera house. I liked Baltar the conflicted guilt ridden traitor. Kick ass Kara and Adama and Tigh and the acting was first rate for the little show on the SiFi network. For some people, it was the answers to mysteries. They are the ones dissapointed. The ending was ambiguous and the writers admitted they knew that, but that was their vision. The same people ripping up their signed Ron Moore autographs need to remember he was the one that totally remade the show into something that everyone loved and won a peabody! Critics were pleading with people to watch this show! They usually made fun of people who watch these shows..lol

    Do you know how many Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics cried for years they never got their due, it was ignored at awards time, people made fun of them for liking sci-fi...this show got kudos in spades! Women actually liked the show (once you talked them into it..lol) they loved Adama/Rosalyn's relationship, the doomed Kara/Lee relationship. Did they care about resurrection or FTL drives..frak no. This is what Eick and moore wanted, a sci-fi show that appealed to people who do not like sci-fi. The finale reflected that premise.

    Don't defend your likes and dislikes. If you want to post something positive, go ahead and do so with pride.

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  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [235]Mar 23, 2009
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    my1sunshine wrote:

    You know.. I couldn't wait to see the finale, and get on this board and have fun discussing the different opinions with people of varied viewpoints who either liked or didn't like it. Instead, the majority of what I see here are a plethora of posters who either have not come here in a while, or I've never seen before to overwhelm the site with bullying negativity. There are SEVERAL threads on this board geared toward negative views, and the same people are coming to the more positive threads to spread their dislike.. most of them repeating and repeating the same views, as if we didn't get it the first ten times already.

    I'm not specificly speaking of this poster, but this has to be the fourth negative thread on this board. Why do we need four? And why do the negative people feel the need to beat back those who try to explain WHY the finale, in their opinion, was good. I've tried to have constructive discussions with opposing viewers, but to no avail. I'd like some listening and responding.

    But the answer is always the same. " No, you're wrong, I'm right. it sucks because it was God who did it". Pounding and pounding that viewpoint ad infinitum.

    I think we get it already.

    I'm sorry, but I couldn't wait to spend the weekend here. I thought this would be the most fun I've ever had on this place. Insead it's a sea of negativity trying to outdo people's fun and enjoyment.

    None of it promotes the constructive discussions that used to appear on this forum. If it was occuring on one or two threads, fine. But it's on four or more.

    Now I couldn't wish to be farther away from this board.

    How dissapointing.

    I wrote

    Ah, I hear you, but don't let it get you down. I reviewed the episode and rated it a 10, I loved it. But try to be open minded to those who didn't. They are fans and this was the last Battlestar and they were kinda crushed. Its understandable. TV is a form or art after all. Some people look at a painting and see greatness, other see crap. Its the nature of art. Its subjective. Before Battlestar, my last favorite show was the soprano's. If you wanted to see a nuclear blast of negativity on message boards after a finale, you should have been there..lol this is a love fest compared to that..lol "fade to black THEN NOTHING!!!" lol They were practically weilding torches and pitchforks Star Trek Enterprise ending? The trekkers cried! Even the actress on the show said the finale was appalling! lol

    They wanted an explanation to the plot and the writers were more interested in touching character moments and saying goodbye than answering the questions. That is really what it comes down to. The people who liked the finale were like me. I didn't care about the FTL drives and the opera house. I liked Baltar the conflicted guilt ridden traitor. Kick ass Kara and Adama and Tigh and the acting was first rate for the little show on the SiFi network. For some people, it was the answers to mysteries. They are the ones dissapointed. The ending was ambiguous and the writers admitted they knew that, but that was their vision. The same people ripping up their signed Ron Moore autographs need to remember he was the one that totally remade the show into something that everyone loved and won a peabody! Critics were pleading with people to watch this show! They usually made fun of people who watch these shows..lol

    Do you know how many Trekkies and Star Wars fanatics cried for years they never got their due, it was ignored at awards time, people made fun of them for liking sci-fi...this show got kudos in spades! Women actually liked the show (once you talked them into it..lol) they loved Adama/Rosalyn's relationship, the doomed Kara/Lee relationship. Did they care about resurrection or FTL drives..frak no. This is what Eick and moore wanted, a sci-fi show that appealed to people who do not like sci-fi. The finale reflected that premise.

    Don't defend your likes and dislikes. If you want to post something positive, go ahead and do so with pride.

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  • Avatar of TVanimal

    TVanimal

    [236]Mar 23, 2009
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    finally watched it....internet was down and i was like ahhhhhhhh!!!

    My thoughts are that the attack on the cylon colony was amazing to watch and well worth the wait, the way baltar stayed to fight and the way the fight turned out was really good...however a few things i don't fully understand.

    1) Who was Daniel-the 13th cylon that was boxed-destroyed by cavil??

    2)What was Kara??

    3) What is with the 2nd earth??

    I'd like to think that Kara was in a way a divine link to the fleet - much like Daniel was to the cylons (remember ellen saying to cavil that Daniel was unique as an artist and in the way he percieved the universe-maybe what he percieved for the cylons future ticked off cavil and got himself "boxed" or killed.) Maybe this 2nd earth isn't earth but similar, maybe what Kara achieved in getting the fleet to the 2nd "Earth" was just a result of what she percieved of the universe and she knew were to go (look up Akashic records, the divine library of knowledge - maybe Daniel / Kara can access it). This could also account for the Six and Baltar visions but on a more personal level for the individuals.

    To be honest i really wanted the ending to be Roslin dying in Bill Adamas arms and Lee and Kara to get back together and end it there!

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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [237]Mar 23, 2009
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    TVanimal wrote:

    finally watched it....internet was down and i was like ahhhhhhhh!!!

    My thoughts are that the attack on the cylon colony was amazing to watch and well worth the wait, the way baltar stayed to fight and the way the fight turned out was really good...however a few things i don't fully understand.

    1) Who was Daniel-the 13th cylon that was boxed-destroyed by cavil??

    2)What was Kara??

    3) What is with the 2nd earth??

    I'd like to think that Kara was in a way a divine link to the fleet - much like Daniel was to the cylons (remember ellen saying to cavil that Daniel was unique as an artist and in the way he percieved the universe-maybe what he percieved for the cylons future ticked off cavil and got himself "boxed" or killed.) Maybe this 2nd earth isn't earth but similar, maybe what Kara achieved in getting the fleet to the 2nd "Earth" was just a result of what she percieved of the universe and she knew were to go (look up Akashic records, the divine library of knowledge - maybe Daniel / Kara can access it). This could also account for the Six and Baltar visions but on a more personal level for the individuals.

    To be honest i really wanted the ending to be Roslin dying in Bill Adamas arms and Lee and Kara to get back together and end it there!



    According to some post-finale interviews, Daniel was never supposed to be a big part of the story. He was created as a way to explain the numbering of the Cylons, and to give insight into Cavil's character (him boxing Daniel made him seem more evil). Honestly, I was a bit disappointed with this, because I was one of those people speculating about who he is, but now I've just accepted it for what it is.

    Earth is really Earth. They showed New York City, had some references to real life issues, like that "Eve" they found (it was obviously supposed to be Hera, but that was a real-life thing that Ron Moore was inspired by), and also had the real verson of "All Along The Watch Tower," etc.

    Kara was purpously left a mystery. Some people hate that it was left a mystery, which is understandable, but I love it. However, what I believe to be the case is that she was brought back by God (or whatever "it" is), not exactly an angel like the Gaius and Six at the end, but more of a temporary physical presence that was brought back in order to do what she couldn't have done otherwise since she died.
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  • Avatar of zerbleflip

    zerbleflip

    [238]Mar 24, 2009
    • member since: 04/12/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 46
    Endgame65 wrote:
    It was still all crap. I mean come on, it was a crappy ending for what should have been great. All their religious mumbo jumbo that kept changing and shouldn't have had nearly as much to do with the story. All crap, and I'm still being generous here.



    While elements of the finale could undoubtedly have been handled better (e.g. Thrace); if you think the "religious mumbo jumbo....shouldn't have had nearly as much to do with the story", then methinks you've rather missed one of the major points of the entire series. Were you perchance sleeping through a large number of episodes in each season?

    The two core themes of Moore's BSG have always been religion and the dangers of over-reliance on technology we can no longer control. These are the canvas upon which the series has been painted. I'll grant you that the artistry hasn't always been great - something certainly true of the finale in several places - but that doesn't negate the fact that wrapping a good part of the story in the realm of the religious was "all crap". Indeed, it was really the only way to go. My only complaint is really with the fact given this direction was as valid as any one of a dozen other storylines Moore et al could have chosen to follow in winding-up the show, there were certain elements that do (whether the "pro" fans like it or not) really lean a little too heavily on either our acceptance of the contrived or our refusal to raise a hand at the contradictions between these elements and what has been previously established in the show.
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  • Avatar of aloonatic

    aloonatic

    [239]Mar 24, 2009
    • member since: 05/23/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 8

    It seems that how this show has turned out has devided people.

    I'm on of those people who feels a little cheated and dissapointed with how things have tunred out, moving away from the action/scfi-fi/drama that I loved to a more philisophical/soap opera in the final couple of series.

    To be clear, I still liked the show, it just didn't turn out as I wanted it to and I think that is where alot of the anger is coming from as people struggle to come to temrs with the direction the show took.

    In the end, most of the main characters had their indevidual stories concluded, but (mostly) not in a particulalry satisfactory manner (for me) at the cost of the big story. The Kara angel/ghost was one of the worse parts, but Lee seemed to accept it pretty well. Though it seemes that a lot of rather odd things were just accepted. Cylons & humans working together, painting the ship with cylon goo, having a cylon XO, tieing the Cylon Anders into the main system and so on.

    Baltar was redeemed and forgiven, which was great. Was it harder for him to recieve forgiveness because he was mostly strugeling to forgive himself and when he did other people were able to forgive him too? Maybe, but it's all a bit odd when others, most notably Cap six, were forgiven so easily and she knowingly had a hand in man kinds near extinction. Yet Boomer on the other hand, she was not forgiven for shotting Adama. Even when she bought Hera to the humans, she was just sumerally executed.

    So what was the big stroy?

    Cylons realised that they needed to find a way to breed with humans to ensure their survival, which is what made Hera so important to them. They figured the best way to do this was to almost erradicate humanity, irradiate all the colonies but set up experimental breeding farms there and then start experimenting on the human survivors. Chasing the rest of humanity acropss the stars because they had placed skin jobs on the ships to erm??? Teach them a lesson???

    Couldn't the Cylons have just come to the humans and said "let's all just get along" and none of this would have had to have happened? As a strategy it seems much more likely to work and a much better Plan A, leaving what they did actually do as a Plan B. I know there were the talks that happened every so often, but the Cylons didn't turn up to them if I recall correctrly, until one day the skin jobs appeared and it all kicked off. If they really go "by the numbers" then the odds on things working out for them going down the route they chose seem pretty remote.

    The main problem I have with the finale was all the flash back stuff. What was the point in all that? They just broke up the pace of the show and slowed everything down. Maybe it was to give your brain a chance to catch up with what was happeneing, I don't know, but what I do know is that I was constantly lookin at how much time their was left and wonderring what on earth they were going to do to fill that time with.

    As a whole it ended in the only way that it could, and endings are never easy. Perhaps the time that it took, seemingly too long, was something of a good thing? I'm not sure. To be fair, I know that I have watched a lot of series and wished they had taken a bit more time over the ending though. It was a shame that characters who were supposedly meant to be soooo impirtant didn't really do much though. Hera was just a kid who's blood amazingly (but only occasionally) cured cancer who knew the tune that led to Earth, just incase angle Kara forgot it. The phrase about Kara being a harbinger of death and leading to the end seems to have confused a lot of people but i'm willing to go along with teh 2 seperated sentences theory and she lead to the death of the old way/evil cylons, leading to the end of the human's journey. The president just staggered around for a while and then died peacfully, mostly just kept alive so that the pretty pointless opera house section could be played out.

    One of the problems with how the final episodes were written, in my opinion, was that the "evil" Cylons were pretty much ignored for a lot of the time, so the importance of Hera to them and the main motivation for their actions was not made particulalry clear and we didn't really care about them. Seeing as so much time was wasted towards the end they could easily have had more evil Cylon action.

    The main strange thing for me was the (easy) abandonment of technology by the humans/skin jobs. The mech cylons disapeared off with a base star though, and were all the evil Cylons visiting the colony when it got nucked? Well, i suppose that doesn't really matter, although when it "all happens again" wont there be some crazy evolved Cylons out there? 150,000 years later they must have done something? Meanwhile man kind is reinventing the wheel.

    For me, it would have made more sense if they had set up a few new cities across the planet that could have disitegrated over time but they gave the enhabitants of Earth a leg up which could be gradually lost, like when the roman empire crumbled and Europe entered the medievil period, if you want to go that route.

    Ulitamtely though, would it not have made more sense to keep the tehnology and written history of what happenend so that lessons could be learned from it in the future to stop it all happenending again"

    "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

    Maybe the ilogical ditching of the tech was meant to be part of the repeated pattern and knowing of the pattern and doing what you think might break it is only what is supposed to happen, but still, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

    All in all, I was dissapointed as I was one of the more SCI-fi followers of Battelstar rather than a sci-FI viewer. The more fiction happy viewers seem to have had far fewer problems with the way things worked out. It could have been worse, but the heavy leaning on "God wanted it that way" was a bit weak for me.

    *Oh, and I've wipped the last couple of minutes from my memory*

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  • Avatar of Stingseven

    Stingseven

    [240]Mar 24, 2009
    • member since: 01/30/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 282

    Loved the ending! Loved it loved it loved it! I sorted expected there would be some griping, but I didn't expect this much! I guess all I can say is don't blame the show or Ron Moore if you are too literal to understand that nuance of the ending. Of course Kara was an angel or agent of God. She was dead! Why didn't she know? Because she didn't need to know. She had a job to do and she did it. When it was over, she understood. ("It feels good!") I had no problem with that.

    The fact that they give up their ships also made sense to me. Look at the destruction having those ships caused? They were home, they wanted to strip it down, simplify. After all they went through, why wouldn't they want to do that? The Centurians could come back ('It's a risk."), but the humans and Cylons gave them their freedom. What would be served to destroy them?

    I thought it was a beautiful, epic, elegaic ending to a series I very much enjoyed. Won't let a bunch of disgruntled fanboys ruin it for me!

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