Battlestar Galactica Forums

Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Daybreak, Pt. 2 & 3" (3/20/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of SleepTight

    SleepTight

    [141]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 06/16/05
    • level: 36
    • rank: Young and Restless
    • posts: 7,535
    Could not have been any better, it was utterly perfect!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [142]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349

    blablobb wrote:
    If you can't come up with rational explanations to the questions you raise, let's angels (or whatever they were) handle it. Sorry, what a piece of crap. I expected actual answers to all the riddles and what i got was nothing...

    Y'know.. I just don't get it. Don't you negative people ever do jigsaw puzzles? You lay out the pieces, and you figure out the big picture.

    Ron Moore said himself that he was going to give answers, but that they weren't going to spoonfeed them to us. One of the things I love so much about Ron and David's storytelling is that they don't insult us. They assume we're intelligent viewers, and that we have the capacity to think about it, and say.. " Ohhh.. I get it!".

    Unfortunately, some people don't. Does that mean the storytelling is bad? No. It just means that some people have to have things spelled out on a billboard, and some people can put peices together by themseves.

    Otherwise.. all I can say is wow.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [143]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349
    dezigner4web wrote:

    I'm a HUGE fan of BSG. I loved the series finale overall.

    BEST MOMENT: There were so many, but my favorite was the moments leading up to Roslin's death and Adama taking off his ring to put it on her finger. *Sob* I cried. Even more tragic was that she died before she could "see" the piece of land he picked out for them. Very sad as that was her dream. *Side note: I noticed her grave marker was in a V shape, thought that was interesting.

    CONFUSING: A little disappointed there was no picking up more on the Daniel character, in which I thought he would factor in again with Cavel's evilness and the finale. I was a little surprised at how easy Cavil gave up Hera for resurrection. He HATED his body, why resurrect forever back into it? I thought part of the need for learning what made up Hera was to procreate and improve on the machine? Idk. Maybe I missed something there. *Side Note: Is there a change the resurrection "spell" was complete before Chief pulled out? I wondered because they said the had the data coming in and then Cavil put a gun to his head.... did he resurrect somewhere?

    CHEESY: The "angel spirits" Six and Baltar. Hmmm. yeah. Nuf said. *Side Note: Did anyone else wonder if the caveman humans died out and we are all begat from Hera? Did anyone else think "Stone Henge, The Pyramids, Corn field patterns and any other unexplained alien pointing reference in our culture is now explained by the BSG crew envading the world with their advancements. Fact they were of another world, hence aliens. Right? Dont even get me started on Greek Mythology.....!!

    SURPISED: My prediction for the end would find the crew entering the Black Hole (time portal) only to portal back in time to find Earth of the past, BC era. Only the same Earth that they found in the future barren, uninhabitable, our Earth, our future plight. But no, they found another planet, and called it Earth I LOVED IT! Another suggestion that their inhabiting the new planet had impact on the future.

    Well done! Wow, what will I watch on Friday nights now? *Sniff*

    Good catch.

    " There are those who believe that life here.. began out there, far across the universe. With tribes of humans, who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians.. or the Toltecs.. or the Mayans.

    That they may have been the architechts of the Great Pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Limiria... or Atlantis.

    - opening of the original Battlestar Galactica (197

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [144]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349

    Lord079 wrote:
    . Now its time to rewatch all 4seasons before the summer hits!.

    I posted a re-watch thread for anyone who's interested, but nobody seems to know it's there. Everytime I put a plug in for it on other threads, people keep missing it, so this is the last time, and who ever finds it, finds it, I guess. It's called Reflections: A new re-watch Thread. I explain my idea on that thread. It fell back onto the second page by now.

    I'd just like to know what everybody thinks.

    Maybe someday, someone will breathe life into it.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [145]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349

    wingsabre wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    -- We'll probably see a lot more of the Daniel story in Caprica.
    There will be no Daniel. Daniel was a one shot character that was mentioned. Caprica will not answer any plot holes of this series, it's intended to be a series set 100 years before the first Colonial-Cylon War. Since the final five did not arrive until they were deep into the war, there will be no Daniel. Remember, the humanoid cylons were created by the final five, after they convinced the Centurions to stop the war with the Colonials. Maybe we'll see Daniel in "The Plan" but bear in mind that Daniel is dead. He was mentioned for a few seconds and all of a sudden we're seeing Daniel cults out there. He is dead, he will stay dead, move on. Daniel was only supposed to be used as a way to explain how and why number 8 is number 8, and why Cavil is evil. That's all. It's that straight forward. There's nothing more to it. Daniel is essentially meaningless now. They didn't even cast an actor to play Daniel. There's no need to talk about Daniel anymore. Daniel is dead. Period. Daniel plays a very, very, very, very, very, very, very minor role in the whole BSG mythology. He's not Kara's Dad, he's not anything. He was an impotent, emotional, artistic cylon that Ellen gave more affection to, and made Cavil jealous. I repeat, Daniel is dead, he plays no real roll in this series, they didn't even cast him, which means, there will be no more Daniel. NO MORE DANIEL.

    Um, I beg to differ. Ron Moore has said Daniel WILL play a large role in Caprica.. which I don't totally understand because Caprica deals with the first development of the Cylons on Caprica.. and according to what we've been told, Daniel was created by the Final Five after the resolution of the first war. But.. I guess Ron has " a plan".

    Anyway, I think you're taking a lot of this too seriously.. calm down, man. This has been for the last five years a site of fun speculation about all aspects of the show. And it should stop because you're sick of hearing about Daniel? Chill out! Relax!

    If you don't wan't to discuss Daniel, don't discuss Daniel.

    But stop raining on other people's parade, man. We're all having a good time here.

    Jeez!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [146]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349
    poggie wrote:

    blablobb wrote:
    If you can't come up with rational explanations to the questions you raise, let's angels (or whatever they were) handle it. Sorry, what a piece of crap. I expected actual answers to all the riddles and what i got was nothing...

    Finally, someone with the ability to think. I guess you and I are just not genius enough to grasp the simplicity of the complexicty that we're supposed to make up in order to satisfy ourselves with an unsatisfying conclusion to a great show. We should hang our heads in shame...

    I think we've had enough of the hostillity, and I think you've made you're point about twenty times over.

    You didn't like it.

    We get it.

    Get over it, and knock off the insults to people who do. Opinions are fine, but you are being needlessly insulting to people who are enjoying themselves, and it is not needed or wanted.

    PS: Sorry about the multiple posts, but I don't know how to reply quotewise to multiple posters in one thread as some do. Maybe I should stop being lazy, and look at the tutorials, ya think? Lol!

    Seriously, let's all have fun here, huh? Please?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of wingsabre

    wingsabre

    [147]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 761
    my1sunshine wrote:

    wingsabre wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    -- We'll probably see a lot more of the Daniel story in Caprica.
    There will be no Daniel. Daniel was a one shot character that was mentioned. Caprica will not answer any plot holes of this series, it's intended to be a series set 100 years before the first Colonial-Cylon War. Since the final five did not arrive until they were deep into the war, there will be no Daniel. Remember, the humanoid cylons were created by the final five, after they convinced the Centurions to stop the war with the Colonials. Maybe we'll see Daniel in "The Plan" but bear in mind that Daniel is dead. He was mentioned for a few seconds and all of a sudden we're seeing Daniel cults out there. He is dead, he will stay dead, move on. Daniel was only supposed to be used as a way to explain how and why number 8 is number 8, and why Cavil is evil. That's all. It's that straight forward. There's nothing more to it. Daniel is essentially meaningless now. They didn't even cast an actor to play Daniel. There's no need to talk about Daniel anymore. Daniel is dead. Period. Daniel plays a very, very, very, very, very, very, very minor role in the whole BSG mythology. He's not Kara's Dad, he's not anything. He was an impotent, emotional, artistic cylon that Ellen gave more affection to, and made Cavil jealous. I repeat, Daniel is dead, he plays no real roll in this series, they didn't even cast him, which means, there will be no more Daniel. NO MORE DANIEL.

    Um, I beg to differ. Ron Moore has said Daniel WILL play a large role in Caprica.. which I don't totally understand because Caprica deals with the first development of the Cylons on Caprica.. and according to what we've been told, Daniel was created by the Final Five after the resolution of the first war. But.. I guess Ron has " a plan".

    Anyway, I think you're taking a lot of this too seriously.. calm down, man. This has been for the last five years a site of fun speculation about all aspects of the show. And it should stop because you're sick of hearing about Daniel? Chill out! Relax!

    If you don't wan't to discuss Daniel, don't discuss Daniel.

    But stop raining on other people's parade, man. We're all having a good time here.

    Jeez!



    It's not that I don't want to talk about Daniel, but he's a character that goes no where. There's no deeper meaning in Daniel at all, and people are all of a sudden creating a cult of Daniel fans, and jumping into a Rabbit Hole. The people who bring up, "What about Daniel? That question wasn't answered." are going down a Rabbit Hole. There is no greater meaning to Daniel, and I'm simply pointing it out. Otherwise everyone will keep asking, What about Daniel.

    Here is a direct quote from Ron Moore:
    "Daniel is definitely a rabbit hole. It was an unintentional rabbit hole, to be honest. I was kind of surprised when I started picking up [that] speculation online.

    For those of you who don't know, there was a deep part of the cylon backstory that had to do with one of the cylons that was created by the final five [called Daniel. Daniel] was later sort of aborted by Cavill it was always intended just to be sort of an interesting bit of backstory about Cavill and his jealously. A Cain and Abel sort of allegory. Then people really started grabbing on to it and seizing on it as some major part of the mythology. In couple of interviews and in the last podcast I tried to go out of my way to say "look, don't spend too much time and energy on this particular theory," because it was never intended to be that major a piece of the mythology."

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/2009/03/20/battlestar-galactica-watched-the-finale-still-got-questions-weve-got-answers/
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ShotgunBlade

    ShotgunBlade

    [148]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 08/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 51

    The reason people speculated so much about Daniel was because Moore was, quite frankly, a little dumb about how he handled the introduction of that plot/character. When you say there's another cylon, in a show like BSG that placed so much tension on "who are the other cylons/Who are the final 4/who is the final 5th", the viewers were naturally going to be searching for the identity of that person, regardless of if that line was "supposed" to have been killed off entirely or not. Moore thought that people would brush off the sudden introduction of another cylon model like he was expecting, but instead, people searched for answers.

    Moore be damned, having Kara's father be Daniel would have made a MUCH better plot solution...everyone was going crazy over Hera all this time when all along the fleet would have had a half-human half-cylon who was leading them to Earth all along...could have also been worked into her returning from her death by working in the resurrection ship left behind by the final 5 cylons somehow...anyway, speculation aside, Moore simply botched how he handled the introduction of that thread and the massive speculation to Daniel's identity should not be something you hold against people, since Moore made the decision of introducing a character but not explaining him, the room for speculation should be left and allowed.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [149]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 04/18/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 87
    wingsabre wrote:
    august29 wrote:

    wingsabre wrote:
    Daniel is dead, there is no Daniel. Cavil killed him. Get it straight, THERE ARE NO DANIEL. This is comes straight from the producers, and the writer's mouth. We don't need a cult of Daniel out there. There is no Daniel. Kara's father is not Daniel. Daniel died, so obviously there's no way for him to father Kara. Hera is the only Human Cylon hybrid. Cavil is sadistic, but not to the point of torturing Daniel. Cavil likes to tourture the final five, and ending Daniel for good is a way to torture Ellen. I repeat, Daniel is not Kara's Dad. Daniel is dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, dead, DEAD! Enough with the whole Daniel thing!

    Er...who gave you the frakking rights to dictate that your view is the right view? that your conclusion is the truth and only way? We are just voicing out what could be , could have been, letting our imaginations run. Cavil is a sadist, what better way to torture Ellen than letting her thinking he destroyed the Daniel matrix while in truth, he send out the remaining good copy on caprica? What better way to torture Ellen by not letting her know that Daniel is existing somewhere? that when they both cross path, they cross paths as strangers? This possibility exist and yet the idea was so intrusive to your perception of the story that you just have to shout "no..No...NO, he's dead dead DEAD!"

    If this Daniel thing is enough, how come you're hell bent in insist there is no connection of any sort when in fact, Ellen mentioned he likes to paint , more sensitive to things around him (much like a musician.), Yet somehow, kara might have inherited a genetic predisposition to paint a picture of kobol and remembers a lesson on a paino which musical notes are actually a coordinate for them to jump into?. Even if they are false clues, the realm of possibility that a lone Daniel copy on Caprica is not so far flung. Yah I might be wrong,so what? Why drown out an expression of an idea, no matter how idiotic it seems to you?

    Because that's what the producers and writers said. There are no connection. People are making a Daniel Cult for no apparent reason, and they have no intention to it. Daniel was killed by Cavil to torture Ellen, and Daniel's genetic matrix was destroyed. Daniel was mention simply to show how evil Cavil is, and to explain why there was a number 8. You know, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8. There had to be a model number 7 in order to get a model number 8. There is no Daniel connection to Kara. her dad was human, and Hera is the first Human Cylon hybrid. That is clear cut. It's that straight forward. Daniel was DESTROYED. Daniel, and all copies of him are dead. There is nothing more to it. I can't understand why someone's so invested into a character that was mentioned for seconds. It's not some open plot whole or anything. Daniel had a beginning, and he had an end. A very quick and bloody end at the hands of Cavil, but an end none the less. He contributed to essentially nothing in the series, except to clarify numbering errors and to emphasize how evil Cavil is. That's all. No more. Even Ron Moore went out of his way to explain to others on the official Battlestar Galactica Pod Cast that Daniel has nothing to do with the series other than a one shot character that wasn't even cast. Could we see more of Daniel in "The Plan?" Yes, but that doesn't mean there's something greater to that character, and it doesn't mean Daniel was sent to Caprica to frak someone and make baby Kara.

    Well, I do agree that there was never a specific "shown" tie from Daniel to Starbuck. There were some ties, as Daniel being musical and the fact they brought up the character at the same time Starbuck was finding out her true nature, so its not insane for people to put two and two together. They never had a "starbuck, I am your father and I am a cylon!" moment, but if people want to interpret that, it certainly wasn't said either way. As 1sunshine stated on here, Moore assumes his audience is intelligent, most of it are people older than 18 (its too adult for kids and didn't have things blowing up every five minutes..lol) so he didn't spell everything out. Your right in that it is never stated Daniel was her father and it is implied by the end she was not a half cylon but was brought back by the "higher power" to help them and she wasn't a cylon resurrection, but it is open ended enough for people if they want to tie it together that way, its no big deal. Its over after all!

    I posted earlier about liking "Lost" and I see on on those boards to, people (including me) stick to there theories because they thought it out and thought hard about it (I wrote a long theory on Lost about the island being purgatory..that's clearly not true now, but I would not be swayed for the first three seasons) People liked the Daniel angle because it was really the only non-god explanation for Starbuck. It was god and not science in the end, so that dissapoints some people because they wanted a scientific explanation for everything.

    On a side note, I originally thought the Starbuck/Apollo meet cute flashbacks were just that, a cute treat for the fans to see how they met, and I admit I was wrong. It was actually kind of tragic because they always were attracted to each other and maybe loved each other, but there was always something in the way or the timing wasn't right. Even when they met. I found that and Rosalyn dying to be the saddest part of the end.

    Another thing that I missed until now was it explained why Ellen ran around on Tigh, although that was not spelled out. She was crushed he stayed in the service when Adama changed his mind about retiring. That was what that flashback was about. All the flashbacks actually told us important things about the characters, but they were subtle. Tigh put Adama first. She said, "all I wanted was you and to be together" He denied her that when he did not retire until they finally settled on our earth.

    I'm going to miss the show alot, it is probably the best show I ever seen on TV.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [151]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349

    Yeah, I heard that part. It was to fix the missing Seven problem. But I thought I read that they were doing something with him (or the subject/idea of him) in Caprica. I myself have never contributed to the Daniel subject. Never really cared all that much really. I'm just looking forward to Caprica and The Plan no matter what.

    As for the finale, I thought it was a great way to end the whole storyline. I just watched it. My wife had to be rushed to the hospital last night, and we were there all night, so I had to watch retro. So I've been itching to read the opinions until know (ergo, my multiple posts, sorry again).

    It wasn't flawless, to be sure. But to me, it was satisfying wrap up. I'm not sure I understand peoples problems with the Earth part. Only thing I share peoples pain with is Adama going off for good, and leaving his son. Huh? I can understand him spending the last moments she has with him and her alone, but with all the hostility, estrangement, and friction he and his last remaining son have had.. over the course of the story.. I would have loved to have seen them get to know each other again, free of the tensions and perils of politics and constant threat of annihilation.

    I understand the angel Kara angle, I do. But for her to dissapear like that AFTER being tangible and interactive for the entire last season.. for her to be an entity that just goes.. POOF.. gone... seems to not fit very well.

    I did love the flashbacks, but I was hoping for more of a punch as far as where they were going with them.

    Other than that.. the whole.. "I thought the ending would be a bit darker" thing.. I absolutely DO NOT understand, nor agree with. Haven't we had enough dark, especially this year? If there's ever been a Murphy's Law marriage to a story, it's this one. Light is just what these people need after years of doom and gloom.

    Besides.. the title wasn't enough of a clue as to the tone of the ending?

    I also don't see where peole have a problem with abandoning the technology. I think it makes perfect sence. Yeah, they'll develop it again. That's the natural progression with ANY society, especially one as aggressive as humanity. But it will be a slow progression, one benefitting from the ideals and lessons of the experience and tragedies of these people. Although, if we take for granted then this is OUR Earth, I guess that experience doesn't make much difference.

    In our timeline, we still end up making a bomb after discovering what powers our sun. We're naturally self destructive as a species.

    One of the things I used to love about the Star Trek universe is it's pointing out how much limitless positive creativity the human race is capable of. This show, then, creates an interesting counterpoint to that attitude.

    We never do get to see what kind of society spawns from the seeds these people bring to this Earth. Just a glimpse.. that they have a New York City as well , and have ideas about sinthetic life as well.. but that could go either way.. which is another thing I loved about the ending.

    I had a great time watching it . I laughed. I cringed. I cheered. I cried. And I was sad.

    Sad to see an old friend go. But I'm glad it got it's ending, unlike the original.

    All in all...I loved it.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of chestrix

    chestrix

    [152]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 12/13/07
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 47
    wingsabre wrote:
    Ellen plainly said in "No Exit" when Dian was boxed, that boxing was not permanent, with the exception of Daniel. Daniel was killed by Cavil, and his entire line was destroyed by Cavil out of jealousy and spite. That was made very clear in "No Exit." What, are people so dumb that they have to be spoon fed that very fact. M-a-y-b-e t-h-e-y s-h-o-u-l-d p-a-y a-t-t-e-n-t-i-o-n m-o-r-e. "No Exit" was an episode that essentially offered a huge chuck of information, and revealed a lot. Daniel was only a few seconds of the huge amount of information offered. Daniel being Kara's dad would make no sense at all. If you really think about when all of those humanoid cylons were placed on Capirica, a Kara born from Daniel would have to be a few years older than Hara. Plus it's not even known how old Daniel was. From what Ellen described it, Daniel was like a little boy. People assumed that Daniel was Boxley. How can a pre-pubescent child give birth to Kara. Just becuase you're not satisfy with the answers doesn't mean it's not a good answer. Basically 80% of the people here think that the episode was either good or better than good. It's only a few vocal a-holes out there who bi+ch and moan that they don't get their answer the exact way they wanted it. It's like those annoying Star Trek fans that bi+ch and moan that DS9 was not Star Trek becuase it didn't occur on a ship.

    wingsabre, reading several of your posts here, must you continue to insult people who have a negative view of the episode or the show? this is a discussion board, not a praising board, and if people have legitimate reasons for their opinions they can express it without being called whiner a-holes bi+ch... one could say the other way around, like a__-kissing rabid fans who would probably rate an entire clip episode as amazing or a series classic.

    anyway, I was also disappointed with the finale. angels, higher power - it's all too simple and uncreative to me. I know that throughout the series, there's been talk about angels and all, but I wonder when Moore actually decided to make head-6 and head-Baltar real angels. Except for the Kara viper, everything, including the projections, could somehow be explained in a logical manner. Through out the series, they haven't used any super great technology (maybe FTL to get around), and so it is so much to ask for a non-divine, no deus ex machina-tech ending?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of wingsabre

    wingsabre

    [153]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 761
    chestrix, sometimes the best answers are the simplest answers. It's the stuff that was under our nose from the start. For example, Clark Kent = Superman? No way, that's too obvious, there's no way Superman would disguise himself with a simple pair of glasses. Another example, Bruce Wane is Batman? That playboy is Batman? No way. I'm not targeting everyone that hates the ending, I'm targeting a specific person that endlessly goes, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Yeah, we get it. Similar to everyone that goes, what about Daniel. There's no greater meaning to Daniel. You yourself said thought the series said that through out the series they did not use some great technology. It would be just as bad to create some new technology, and explain it instantly in the end. It would equally be seen as cheap. What else could they have done to explain the resurrection of a human? From the beginning they've said that resurrection only works with cylons. The 13th tribe was completely Cylon, created by the 12 tribes. They rebelled and left Kobal to create their own home. Eventually they abandoned resurrection and created found a way to populate their world through procreation. Time repeated itself, and they too engaged in wars with themselves, and they too created robots that they used as tools and enslaved. These Cylon Cylons destroyed the Cylons, and the final five essentially escaped to the Colonies to warn them not to enslave their robots. Kara was not cylon, so the explanation for her was she had a destiny, she died before it was complete, so she came back as an angel or a ghost, and now she's moved on to the other side. Could there be another explanation? Sure, but could it get complicated and devolve into techno babble? Yeah, and this series as a whole has shy away from techno babble.
    Edited on 03/21/2009 8:32pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ShotgunBlade

    ShotgunBlade

    [154]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 08/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 51
    Wingsabre you're missing the point man. You're giving examples of other forms of entertainment where certain plot aspects were simply accepted to begin with. BSG was, up until this point, logical and coherent, tight in its plot with no use of deus ex machinae or other weak plot devices to get past its hurdles. It was not unreasonable for the viewer to expect a final consistent with how the show had been run up until that point, which is not what was delivered. It would be like a cartoon about rabbits having a final episode that was about serial killers. Completely out of place.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of chestrix

    chestrix

    [155]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 12/13/07
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 47
    wingsabre wrote:
    chestrix, sometimes the best answers are the simplest answers. It's the stuff that was under our nose from the start. For example, Clark Kent = Superman? No way, that's too obvious, there's no way Superman would disguise himself with a simple pair of glasses. Another example, Bruce Wane is Batman? That playboy is Batman? No way. I'm not targeting everyone that hates the ending, I'm targeting a specific person that endlessly goes, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Yeah, we get it. Similar to everyone that goes, what about Daniel. There's no greater meaning to Daniel. You yourself said thought the series said that through out the series they did not use some great technology. It would be just as bad to create some new technology, and explain it instantly in the end. It would equally be seen as cheap. What else could they have done to explain the resurrection of a human? From the beginning they've said that resurrection only works with cylons. The 13th tribe was completely Cylon, created by the 12 tribes. They rebelled and left Kobal to create their own home. Eventually they abandoned resurrection and created found a way to populate their world through procreation. Time repeated itself, and they too engaged in wars with themselves, and they too created robots that they used as tools and enslaved. These Cylon Cylons destroyed the Cylons, and the final five essentially escaped to the Colonies to warn them not to enslave their robots. Kara was not cylon, so the explanation for her was she had a destiny, she died before it was complete, so she came back as an angel or a ghost, and now she's moved on to the other side. Could there be another explanation? Sure, but could it get complicated and devolve into techno babble? Yeah, and this series as a whole has shy away from techno babble.

    okay, anyways I myself shouldn't be so hard - so my apologies.

    The BSG journey has been great, and kinda realistic for a sci-fi show. so it was just disappointing to me that a divine hand (or something like that) actually was revealed. It would have been disappointing to me also if they had time travel or some weird technology at the last minute. Maybe that whole kara/viper thing never should have been done in hindsight, and maybe they could have made her a cylon (certain things would have to be re-worked of course). I know Moore did things along the way, but this was at the end of season 3 if I remember correctly.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of wingsabre

    wingsabre

    [156]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 761
    So Head Baltar convincing Caprica Six that killing Anders was a bad idea was that logical and coherent? Head Six, knowing what events will occur and guiding Baltar is very logical and coherent? The scrolls of pythia guiding people, and the shared visions of Laura, Sharon, and Caprica were all logical and coherent? What show have you been watching? They've been dealing with a mythical question from the beginning, and so they gave a mythical answer. It wasn't some deus ex machinae that came out of no where, it was actually very predicable.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of guidryp

    guidryp

    [157]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 08/23/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 177

    wingsabre wrote:
    So Head Baltar convincing Caprica Six that killing Anders was a bad idea was that logical and coherent? Head Six, knowing what events will occur and guiding Baltar is very logical and coherent? The scrolls of pythia guiding people, and the shared visions of Laura, Sharon, and Caprica were all logical and coherent? What show have you been watching? They've been dealing with a mythical question from the beginning, and so they gave a mythical answer. It wasn't some deus ex machinae that came out of no where, it was actually very predicable.

    A lot of us were under the impression we were watching science fiction as in this definition: "Science Fiction: fiction based on rational speculation regarding the human experience of science and its resultant technologies."

    We were expecting rational answers. Instead we got a Fantasy cop out. God did it. Even good Fantasy is internally consistent and doesn't bait n switch and cop out like this.

    I am a Science Fiction Fan. Blade Runner is Science Fiction. BSG has been revealed to be yet another Fantasy wrapped in Science Fiction trappings.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Canada_Michael

    Canada_Michael

    [158]Mar 21, 2009
    • member since: 08/21/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 454

    Why were the survivors from the colonies and the Cylons that joined them important for the survival of the human race, if the 'Earth' already had inhabitants on it? The inhabitants already on the planet would just continue evolving by themselves without any outside help.

    How does giving up the use of the technology you currently have and spreading yourself across continents help save the cultures of the Colonies? If all they wanted to do was join humans and Cylons together why would you go through all the trouble of looking for a specific planet when any would do.

    Edited on 03/21/2009 10:09pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of chestrix

    chestrix

    [160]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 12/13/07
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 47
    wingsabre wrote:
    So Head Baltar convincing Caprica Six that killing Anders was a bad idea was that logical and coherent? Head Six, knowing what events will occur and guiding Baltar is very logical and coherent? The scrolls of pythia guiding people, and the shared visions of Laura, Sharon, and Caprica were all logical and coherent? What show have you been watching? They've been dealing with a mythical question from the beginning, and so they gave a mythical answer. It wasn't some deus ex machinae that came out of no where, it was actually very predicable.

    I don't mind visions and prophecies in sci-fi, being self-fulfilling or whatever. Certain characters, like Kara, Rosalyn and whatever, could be different people who might have some special powers, head-cases could be your subconscious talking to you, or maybe there's a more complicated sci-fi scenario then that, which would be fine. In fact, one aspect of sci-fi is to somehow explain and flush out things that were once perceived as mysticism.

    I'm all for sci-fi and sci-fi tech, as long as something isn't introduced at the very end - give hints along the way. It's just this whole greater power explaining everything, even with all the hints and mysticism stuff mentioned along the way, was unsatisfying to me.

    anyways, what was the message at the end, with the 2 angels talking? what were we supposed to gain from this - that God, or a God-like being who doesn't like to be called God, lets the cycle continue and continue, each time putting the angels in to move them along a certain path, and then keep experimenting until one cycle decides to break out of it even with the angels pushing? What's the point or the plan? God sure works in mysterious ways.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.