Battlestar Galactica Forums

Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Daybreak, Pt. 2 & 3" (3/20/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of sourabhshetty

    sourabhshetty

    [181]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 12/28/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 457
    Yeah i thought Helo would be sacrificed by the writers....He was the only genuinely good person on the show. Everyone had flaws, except Helo. His flaws, if any, were minimal. He even gave up his seat on the raptor, and for all he knew, his life, so that a scientist could escape in his place in the miniseries.

    The angel Six and Baltar didn't make any sense to me whatsoever; I had to go through the forums here to understand what they were supposed to be.

    And this is the story of how the white people landed on Earth.(Just a joke...I do not mean anything..)
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Lokutes

    Lokutes

    [182]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 01/15/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 40

    sorry but the people maoning about the religious aspect of the finale need to watch the whole series again!!

    the whole search for earth was based on religion, the prophecy, if i recieved a euro for everytime someone mentioned God in BSG, I would be frakking stinking rich by now, am I one of the few who thought it was a perfect ending to the show?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Omnia87

    Omnia87

    [183]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 03/22/09
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 24

    Lokutes wrote:

    sorry but the people maoning about the religious aspect of the finale need to watch the whole series again!!

    the whole search for earth was based on religion, the prophecy, if i recieved a euro for everytime someone mentioned God in BSG, I would be frakking stinking rich by now, am I one of the few who thought it was a perfect ending to the show?

    Funny, I was expecting that if a show went on for four seasons it wouldn't have shown it's true face right at the beginning. In a lot of interesting stories prophecies and religion are used to set up something bigger. Like in real life, religion and prophecy are often invoked to get people to do certain things.
    Strangely when you're watching a show on the SCIFI channel you don't expect them to add some religious elements to the storyline and then stick with those till the very end. I think many were watching like I did, hoping that at some point they would explain the higher purpose of the events that occured. If it was a higher power: FINE, but please let us in on the big plan before you leave us watching the credits for the last time. Otherwise use the religious element creatively to thicken the plot. But otherwise let's not rely on the weakest plot device of all and simply explain everything by the magic word.... God.

    Just off the top of my head two examples, that I'm sure many of you have see, of how prophecy was used creatively:
    - Angel (TV): Sahjan changes the prophecy of the Nyazian Scrolls in order to create confusion and distrust.
    - The Matrix Reloaded: The Architect explains that the prophecy of the One is a way for the machines to keep control over the recurring 'glitch' in their program.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [184]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 11/22/05
    • level: 26
    • rank: Bow Flex
    • posts: 5,528
    my1sunshine wrote:

    As for other minor mysteries that I was hoping might be answered...

    Who put the note about the Cylon models in Adama's quarters (Mini-Series?

    Who was Shelly Godfrey. Just another Six, or another angel (Six Degrees of Seperation)?

    Who kille Vallence (Zarek's associate) aboard Galactica (Colonial Day)?



    Gaius put the note about the Cylons in Adama's quarters. He couldn't tell him without giving himself away, so he did it anomynously.

    Ellen killed Vallence for Zarek, so that Zarek would do whatever favor it was she asked of him. Remember when she was originally talking to Zarek about the favor, he mentions Vallence. Later, he says to Roslin that he didn't kill Vallence. And that's true. But then they both give each other looks, pretty much showing that it was her, and she even makes a reference (I forget what exactly, watched it last night, but can't remember word for word) to her conversation with Zarek when she's talking with Tigh, who the favor was supposed to be for.

    Sorry I can't answer about Shelly Godfrey, because I haven't seen it in a while, and I barely even remember who she is, let alone any specific clues.

    Lokutes wrote:
    am I one of the few who thought it was a perfect ending to the show?


    When I first saw it, I wouldn't know if I agreed or not. But thinking about it, and reading through the comments to get more insight into certain aspects of it, I completely agree. I love what they did with it, explaining all the prophecies of their religions ("all this has happened before"), tied it into the original theme of the original show in such a way that fit into the theme of this series, and made a comment about us, which tied into the whole "do we deserve to be saved" theme that was brought up in the pilot mini-series by bringing it into our Earth ("and all this will happen again"/"but it doesn't have to happen again"). Meanwhile, they did a great job (at least IMO) of concluding all the characters' storylines, after bringing them full-circle before these episodes.

    I wouldn't really say it's a perfect episode, because there were some moments that could have played out a bit better, but as a conclusion to the series as a whole, I couldn't be happier.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of guidryp

    guidryp

    [185]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 08/23/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 177
    Lokutes wrote:

    sorry but the people maoning about the religious aspect of the finale need to watch the whole series again!!

    the whole search for earth was based on religion, the prophecy, if i recieved a euro for everytime someone mentioned God in BSG, I would be frakking stinking rich by now, am I one of the few who thought it was a perfect ending to the show?



    No thanks. I am hoping to purge season 3&4 from my memory. When BSG was a good show (until New Caprica) it was ultra realistic, with believable characters in a situation that could be rationally explained. My commentary on the finale is aimed at the whole last two season that descended. I used to discuss Baltars head-6 with friends (Insanity or Technology) oddly, God did it never came up in those days.

    I haven't discussed this show since it became a 'make it up as we go along', influenced by M Knight Shamalan (complete with writer cameo), muddled mess. I spent the last two season hoping for a turnaround that never came, just deeper into the mud. Too bad it didn't end two years ago before the writers went off the deep end.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [186]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 05/24/02
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 11,760
    Fine, but I don't understand why you and some other people seem so offended that other people actually enjoyed the finale and the last two seasons, as though we have committed some sort of outrageous act against humanity. Based on what I've read on the other thread, the conversation seems to be running along the lines of other people saying they liked the finale and then you and a few others saying, "No, you didn't!"

    I've been disappointed with various episodes of other series but I never got that excited about it, not enough to try to bend the will of an entire forum to my view. You can't argue about someone else's opinion of a show. You don't have to agree with that opinion but it really doesn't make much sense to tell someone that they are wrong to have enjoyed a show or an episode.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [187]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349

    Thanks, 123home. I had just made a decision to walk away from the forum for a few days until I read what you wrote.

    I was just posting the same thing elsewhere. It's gone beyond being overwhelming, and frankly, become discouraging.

    Thanks again.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of enervator

    enervator

    [188]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 07/05/05
    • level: 38
    • rank: Squarepants
    • posts: 10,169
    I don't understand the outrage over the themes of religion and destiny appearing in the finale. If those ideas had just been thrown in there out of the blue, I could understand the shock at seeing them, but they were touched upon throughout the series.

    I think the survivors made what they believed to be the correct decision about abandoning their technology. Was it the right decision? Probably not, and I'm willing to bet they regretted it sooner or later. I wonder if the lesson to be learned was that there needed to be a balance between humanity and technology, not just casting off technology altogether. I found it fascinating that after all they went through, both Adama men wound up alone. Neither was apparently meant to live a "normal" life with the women they loved. Perhaps they'd later look back on their hellish years aboard Galactica as the best of their lives, as it was the only time they truly got to be with their loved ones regularly. I don't know why Admiral Adama chose to go off on his own. People don't always make decisions that make sense. Although I could pretty well guess that Kara was going to disappear on Lee, it didn't make the scene any less effective to me. I thought it was interesting that she seemed to purposely stop Lee from saying goodbye to her. Again, I don't know why. I really enjoyed it. I don't think it was perfect, but what is? Nearly two days later I still find myself thinking about it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of guidryp

    guidryp

    [189]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 08/23/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 177
    123home123 wrote:
    the conversation seems to be running along the lines of other people saying they liked the finale and then you and a few others saying, "No, you didn't!"


    That doesn't sound like something I would say. Care to point it out?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [190]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349

    guidryp wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    the conversation seems to be running along the lines of other people saying they liked the finale and then you and a few others saying, "No, you didn't!"
    That doesn't sound like something I would say. Care to point it out?

    Umm... careful.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of guidryp

    guidryp

    [191]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 08/23/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 177
    Careful about what? I usually take strong care to never tell other people what they think as I don't like it when it is done to me. If I did that, I would like to know/apologize.
    Edited on 03/22/2009 4:47pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of hash1978

    hash1978

    [192]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 11/08/05
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 168

    Some quick thoughts.

    I was fine with pretty much the entire episode. The continued flashbacks were an interesting demonstration of free will, characters making decisions that would ultimately lead them to the point in which the Opera House visions get played out, which (as we know) was clearly orchestrated from the get-go. Such is the nature of religion and faith. But really, everything that happened in the episode was a culmination of events. Each character fulfilled their destiny in their own way, ending for them and starting for us -- in Hera.

    To single out few favorite moments: "Thank You" (Laura and Cottle saying goodbye), "Clean Slate" (Anders and the Fleet flying into the sun), "I know about Farming" (Baltar's breakdown).

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of borgsyd

    borgsyd

    [193]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 07/03/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 8

    great episode just didnt like starbuck dissapearing all that build up for her over the years and to go like that really stupid!! losing technology also stupid. And the main cast seperating wasnt the best. Was sat that lauren died

    but apart from that one of the greatest shows ever made and a fantastic ending loved it

    thanks RON

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [194]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 05/24/02
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 11,760
    guidryp wrote:
    Careful about what? I usually take strong care to never tell other people what they think as I don't like it when it is done to me. If I did that, I would like to know/apologize.

    I'm not going to get into a point-by-point match about who-said-what. The general point is that you are incredibly insistent that EVERYONE know that you didn't like the episode and yes, you ARE trying to take over the forum because you seem to be offended that anyone "dared" to give the episode a good review and a high rating. This forum is intended to provide a place for fans of the show to discuss the show. Though you can always post a critical (but civilized) comment or review, you are not supposed to be trying to take over a forum to make sure that fans cannot discuss the episode or the show without feeling like they have committed some major transgression. I wouldn't think of going to a forum where I didn't like the show and then start trying to take over threads, starting up anti-show threads and such.

    You've made your point. Repeating it over and over on multiple threads and engaging in attack-style parodies is crossing the line. People are not here to defend why they liked the episode or to justify to you why they actually liked the episode. You and the other detractors have had your fair opportunity to voice your displeasure. But you are going too far in trying to take this forum down. I have a good memory and I recall other occasions where you have engaged in similar behavior on this forum in the past. This message is also directed to some of the other detractors who are posting off-topic partisan political rants that have absolutely nothing to do with the show, and to those who think it is acceptable to post threats of violence against the writers and producers. If you have nothing new to add, then please stop the nonsense immediately.
    Edited on 03/22/2009 5:51pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of abelav78

    abelav78

    [195]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 279

    ShotgunBlade wrote:
    Wingsabre you're missing the point man. You're giving examples of other forms of entertainment where certain plot aspects were simply accepted to begin with. BSG was, up until this point, logical and coherent, tight in its plot with no use of deus ex machinae or other weak plot devices to get past its hurdles. It was not unreasonable for the viewer to expect a final consistent with how the show had been run up until that point, which is not what was delivered. It would be like a cartoon about rabbits having a final episode that was about serial killers. Completely out of place.

    No ShutgunBlade I been reading your posts here and on your thread and I believe you got it wrong and didnt quite understand the show. Maybe you are just too young or too stuborn to accept this is how a great show ended and it was good, not perfect but fullfilling way to say goodbye.

    Dont take my word for granted or believe anyone else I just recommend you to go watch the miniseries and the First Episode of Season 1 "33". Just watch those and see the interaction of Baltar and Head Six and all the say, you will find it quite enlightening and so similar to what you argue about and how this ending was completely in accordance with the tone of the show.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of abelav78

    abelav78

    [196]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 279
    Canada_Michael wrote:

    Why were the survivors from the colonies and the Cylons that joined them important for the survival of the human race, if the 'Earth' already had inhabitants on it? The inhabitants already on the planet would just continue evolving by themselves without any outside help.

    How does giving up the use of the technology you currently have and spreading yourself across continents help save the cultures of the Colonies? If all they wanted to do was join humans and Cylons together why would you go through all the trouble of looking for a specific planet when any would do.

    They were important to the superior being, god, the great spirit, power of the universe, whatever. Gods loves all his children according to head six. They were important because they gave the inhabitants of that earth the gift of speech, maybe taught them morals and some basic stuff that helped them evolve and establish a society. Who knows, thats an open ending thats not quite explained.

    Well giving up technology sounds too harsh but if you think about it their society has been committing the same mistakes over and over again thru technological advance, this time they wanted to live the rest of their lives and their children lives in peace and as simplistic as they could. They were literally exhausted of been in a tin can, stressed to their guts of been chased across the Galaxy. And not any planet would do Earth was the choice the powers that be guided them to.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [198]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 3,469
    Helostwin wrote:
    elvenhome wrote:

    Well, I'm not going to get involved in the heated debates on here, I just want to say that I am SO GLAD that Helo didn't die. Whew! I was worried for a while there.

    Also, I missed quite a few episodes in season four... Can someone please tell me what happened to Dee And Gaeta? I don't think I saw them in the finale...



    You must have missed only 3 episodes: Dee committed suicide. Gaeta was executed by firing squad for treason along with Seleck when they tried to seize Galactica and overthrow the government of the fleet.There was kind of a civil war. Adama regained control and had them shot.

    I was worried about Helo too. I thought he was a goner after he got shot.
    Correction: Tom Zarek you mean. But otherwise correct about everything else.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of abelav78

    abelav78

    [199]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 10/02/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 279

    I liked the ending of Battlestar Galactica, it wasnt perfect, it wasnt as i imagined it. I had theories and wanted to be right about them. But looking back and rewatching some of the seasons I can totally see why it all pointed out to the ending we saw. It doesnt matter if I agree or woulda done things the same if I were them. For me it was a good conclusion to an amazing journey. Thanks to the writters,creators and actors of the show. And to all the fans pro or con cheers! See you in the Lost forum another great show that I love to theorize about.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of my1sunshine

    my1sunshine

    [200]Mar 22, 2009
    • member since: 09/15/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 349
    By the way, who else loved or noticed the Hitchcock-ian Ron Moore appearance at the end? I was surprised, I only saw one person mention it. And since the introduction of the "All Along The Watchtower" storyline, I have loonged to hear Hendrix's version (the most famous one) on an episode, and apparently so did Ron.. who I happen to know is a die-hard Hendrix fan. Both moves, along with the " It doesn't like that name" line were a very classy way to end the show, bookending it perfectly.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.