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Discussion - "Deadlock" (spoilers) (2/20/09)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of roger767

    roger767

    [21]Feb 21, 2009
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    I totally agree, the writers took 3 steps back with this episode. Ellen is the same selfish person she was. The final 5 are over 2000 years old but they act like 6 year olds. And Baltar, hes been reduced to a comic relieve, really sad. I watched season 1 last week and the greatness of the first season has been totally lost.
    Thank god this season is the last, that way they can't frak it up even more.
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [22]Feb 21, 2009
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    Yeah, I'm not certain I understood this one. There's a piece missing somewhere.

    Ellen. She was so vibrant in the last episode. Could be she was always a pretty tough cookie when she had to be, but returning to Galactica, she got petty. That's something I don't understand. You would think she'd be overjoyed that her creations are capable of becoming pregnant. Unless the 5 created the 7 out of their own genetic samples, there shouldn't be any of the usual fear of inbreeding. 6's pregnancy was something to celebrate, not condemn.

    I agree, they spent too much time watching Adama watching the beams.

    I wonder if the head-six and the return of Ellen are related.

    Was the piano music in the bar real or was it just another wake-up signal that only Kara could hear?

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [23]Feb 21, 2009
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    I don't think the piano has any significance in the story. It was just an inside joke signaling that Bear McCreary was in the picture.

    I think the reason why this episode felt different is because of the writer, Jane Espenson, who is also a co-executive producer this season. She is reportedly well-known for her work on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which I never really followed. She has said in the past that she has more of a comedic side to her than perhaps Ronald Moore does. I've noticed some tendencies in her scripts. She often adds an extended scene of Adama and Tigh drinking together and getting sloppy drunk, where Tigh has that sort of cackling laugh. We saw that drinking scene motif in this episode. In one of Espenson's earlier scripts, she added the drinking scene where Adama and Tigh were laughing about the paper not having any corners or cutting corners or something like that. I didn't really get the joke that time.

    Espenson also tends to throw in more "one liners" than is usual for a BSG episode. I track this through the presence of quotes in each episode that can work as stand-alone quotes in the episode guide on TV.com. Some of the best BSG episodes don't really have many good stand-alone quotes because they are so tied into the onscreen drama that they don't make much sense out of context. Either that or there are very powerful speeches from characters like Adama, Lee or Baltar that run several paragraphs long.

    In this episode, there were a few humorous bits that most of the other BSG writers don't usually add. This includes the scene where Baltar thinks the young boy is named after him ("Gaius") but he finds out that the boy was named after his father. I laughed at that scene but then Baltar had a strange pause, which immediately killed the humorous tone. For a moment, I thought maybe the woman had been one of Baltar's groupies and he himself was the father of the boy. But the boy was too old to have been born in that time frame, so I don't think Baltar was the father.

    I thought the other one-liner was funny, when Ellen told Tigh, "Please, do not tell me I was your mental porn. That's just sad!" But after reading the other comments here, that line might have been part of the problem with Ellen's characterization. Despite the fact that she now remembers that she is one of the Five, she still acts as petty as she did when she thought she was just a regular human. It was strange seeing a member of the grand "Final Five" acting like a child. It took away from some of the drama of the "deadlock" in the episode title, the divided vote on whether to flee the Colonial fleet and create a new "pure" Cylon civilization. Instead of that momentous story line, the main story turned out to be a husband-and-wife squabble. Given that we're heading into the home stretch of the series, I don't think that was the right tack to take in this episode either.

    Not that I think the episode was bad. It was still pretty good and the moments of humor were good for a chuckle or two but this was a story that might have fit better in an earlier season, maybe Season 2 or Season 3. Other than the death of Liam, it was more like a stand-alone episode than a part of the ongoing mythology of the series. With just a few episodes remaining, we don't really need stand-alone stories. Even though we were led to believe that Ellen and the other Cylons could flee and abandon the humans to almost certain destruction (from the dwindling food supplies and the deterioration of the Galactica), we find that Ellen never even considered that to be a real possibility. She only voted to leave to get back at Saul and Caprica Six, but she never intended to leave, unless she wanted to play chicken with Saul.

    I thought there would be more resolution or information about Ellen's importance as the Final Cylon. Not much really happened along that path. Nothing was resolved with Boomer, Kara or Anders either. Or between Tyrol and Boomer.

    I'm now wondering if the end of the series could have something to do with the Galactica actually falling apart, despite the efforts of Tyrol to patch the ship together with the Cylon goo. It's the only large military ship in the Fleet. Without her, the Fleet is just a bunch of vulnerable and slow civilian ships. Maybe the Galactica falls apart and then Cavil arrives, ready to blow away the remnants of the Colonial Fleet. But then he has a change of heart for some reason, maybe related to Ellen and the Final Five. Or he does destroy most of the Fleet but he himself is destroyed. But his new resurrection ship survives along with a handful of humans and rebel Cylons. This small group would form the basis of a new "blended" society (to use Baltar's term). This is all just speculation by the way. I have no idea what's going to happen at the end of the season. I haven't read a single spoiler online.
    Edited on 02/21/2009 6:49am
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  • Avatar of h00plah

    h00plah

    [24]Feb 21, 2009
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    Well, I believe that the piano has some significance - but only to Starbuck. If you go to "You will know the truth", you will see a picture of Kara sitting next to someone whom we've not met to this date playing the piano. This may be a flashback, but still, the piano means something to her.

    EDIT:

    After watching the promo for next week's episode, I'm positive of this, the piano has some connection to the whole starbuck surviving the explosion thing and ending up on Earth. For those of you who don't watch the promos, I can guarantee you that next week's episode has a chance of revealing what Starbuck truly is.

    Edited on 02/21/2009 7:30am
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  • Avatar of seantuck

    seantuck

    [25]Feb 21, 2009
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    h00plah wrote:

    Well, I believe that the piano has some significance - but only to Starbuck. If you go to "You will know the truth", you will see a picture of Kara sitting next to someone whom we've not met to this date playing the piano. This may be a flashback, but still, the piano means something to her.

    EDIT:

    After watching the promo for next week's episode, I'm positive of this, the piano has some connection to the whole starbuck surviving the explosion thing and ending up on Earth. For those of you who don't watch the promos, I can guarantee you that next week's episode has a chance of revealing what Starbuck truly is.


    Ever since I saw that picture in YWKTT, i've been waiting for it to show up in the show! Even though this episode was very up and down, I think next weeks is going to be amazing.......and thats just going by the promo alone!
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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [26]Feb 21, 2009
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    martymcflyjb wrote:

    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    I'm a bit worried that they may slip a bit before the end, because it's hard for a show to remain consistantly good for so long. If a show has so many great episodes, and I get used to having that, even a very good episode can seem disappointing by comparison.

    Aw, I think you jinxed it!



    Heh.

    Yeah. I was disappointed with this one. I didn't like how petty and jealous Ellen was acting. I thought that she was great in the last episode, and wish she would have continued acting like that, instead of the way she did in this episode. I instantly went back to hating her like I used to before she died.

    I wish that they didn't kill off the baby, because I'd like to see them explore it more, and have it be more important to the overall story. But if they did have to kill it off, at least we got some very good scenes with Six and Tigh. Also, I really lked the scene between Six and Roslin. In that scene, it was hinted that the visions that they had were somehow stopped by the baby. If this is the case, I'm hoping that now that the baby is gone, we'll be able to see more of this in the future, so that they can explain more about it.

    At first I didn't really care for Gaius' story that much, but it did get better before the end. I do think that something will happen as a result of them getting those guns. I also loved seeing head Six back again. I was hoping that they'd bring her back soon so that they could explore that story more.

    Overall, it was disappointing, and one of my least favorite in a while. That being said, it was still a good episode, especially towards the end, with the baby stuff and Gaius. I have a feeling that it did set up a few elements that are going to be very important in the future, but at the same time, it did feel like a stand-alone episode, which wouldn't be so bad if we weren't so close to the end of the series.
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  • Avatar of FeldmanSkitzoid

    FeldmanSkitzoid

    [27]Feb 21, 2009
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    One thing is still bothering me. Why the hell did Adama give Baltar and his goofy cult guns? Maybe I misunderstood the conversation between the two of them, but it seemed like Baltar was looking for protection against the cylons, whereas Adama mostly wants to work with them.

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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [28]Feb 21, 2009
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    This was one of those "filler" episodes. There was enough material so it couldn't be condensed into another episode as a B story, but not enough for it to be a great episode on its own. It might not be great but overall episodes like this help the series because it helps the main story episodes not seem so cluttered.

    The one thing I did like in this episode was that we finally got to see into the Chief's head a little. Unlike the other Final Fivers we never really got to see what was going on with him. Tory is Tory and wants to be a Cylon, Tigh is loyal and will stay by Adama's side, Anders still loves Starbuck, ect. I feel like we have a good grasp on their characters, but the Chief has been fairly quite. Until he said he would leave I had no idea what he was thinking, and I was a little surprised. I think next week we'll get more from Tyrol with Boomer back in the fleet.

    The only other thing I'll remember from this episode was Baltar fumbling around with the gun at the end. I got a good chuckle out of that, which was nice after Liam's death.

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  • Avatar of martymcflyjb

    martymcflyjb

    [29]Feb 21, 2009
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    roger767 wrote:
    I watched season 1 last week and the greatness of the first season has been totally lost. Thank god this season is the last, that way they can't frak it up even more.

    Settle down. It was just one so-so episode. Have you forgotten how great the rest of the season has been?

    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    Overall, it was disappointing, and one of my least favorite in a while. That being said, it was still a good episode, especially towards the end, with the baby stuff and Gaius. I have a feeling that it did set up a few elements that are going to be very important in the future, but at the same time, it did feel like a stand-alone episode, which wouldn't be so bad if we weren't so close to the end of the series.

    Well said. I don't really see it as a stand alone overall, but there were some subplots that seemed to waste valuable time. Another thing that bothered me was that Tyrol voted to leave. After he had just promised Adama he'd fix the ship--something he was still in the process of doing. It seems out of character for him to just decide to up and leave just because Ellen showed up.

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  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [30]Feb 21, 2009
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    This episode was step back, it was kind of a filler, but when the show is ending? It left me with a lots of why and what if. Like why kill the baby, a first full cylon baby looked interesting.
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [31]Feb 21, 2009
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    I was wrong about the piano. You can see it (though out of focus) in the background. It's a stand-up.

    Dark as this episode was, there were some great and profound lines.

    How many dead chicks are out there?

    I don't trust that machine

    Floor or table?

    Please don't tell me I was your mental porn. That's just sad

    Can we talk about the offer? Talk about the baby later

    You must have been laughing your shiney shiney head off

    Ours are bigger

    Great grandpa was a power-sander (My favorite!)

    I shouldnt have to spout the words. I feel it less when I say the words! (Very typically male!)

    I'm going to the head. Do something a little constructive

    Gaius fumbling with the weapon

    It's a good name, short for William

    You're right 123home123. It does seem to be a filler episode. Not as bad as thought on first viewing

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of BHSWorkstation

    BHSWorkstation

    [32]Feb 21, 2009
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    I have to disagree with those who are calling this a "filler" episode. It seems to me that the clear goal of each of the storylines was the necessary integration of Humans and Cylons. That was obviously the point of the use of Cylon materials to rejuvenate the Galactica. I also believe it was the point being made with Liam's death. It was far from a pointless and wasted storyline. As Tigh himself stated in the episode, neither Humans nor Cylons are strong enough to survive on their own. Therefore Liam, being solely of Cylon origin was being used as a symbol of that concept.

    Now that is said, I do believe that the episode itself wasn't executed very well. The point was there but it wasn't clearly focused or emotionally compelling. Some of it was also overdone. I am probably the first to notice this, but Adama was shown four separate times with a painfully troubled expression while Cylon workers applied the "goo" to Galactica. Once, great idea. Twice, I'm OK with it. Three or more times, I suspect there were a few other plot points that could have used that time.

    On the plus side, I did enjoy the injection of some humor into the show. I laughed at least three or four times which was a nice change of pace for a show that usually has a chuckle once every third or fourth episode.

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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [33]Feb 21, 2009
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    BHSWorkstation wrote:

    I have to disagree with those who are calling this a "filler" episode. It seems to me that the clear goal of each of the storylines was the necessary integration of Humans and Cylons. That was obviously the point of the use of Cylon materials to rejuvenate the Galactica. I also believe it was the point being made with Liam's death. It was far from a pointless and wasted storyline. As Tigh himself stated in the episode, neither Humans nor Cylons are strong enough to survive on their own. Therefore Liam, being solely of Cylon origin was being used as a symbol of that concept.



    Well said. I was pretty sure Liam was going to die. The whole thing that this past season has been working towards is the fact that cylons and humans need to work together to survive. Neither can survive on their own. Plus I believe that something is going to have to happen with Caprica and Gaius (and Hera) in the end. So if Caprica is stuck over in the Liam/Tigh plotline, she is not going to be in the Hera/Gaius one. Also, did anyone notice the specific times when Caprica started having problems? When Tigh and Ellen were having sex. When Ellen was telling Caprica that Tigh loved Bill more. Interesting?
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  • Avatar of Raven-22

    Raven-22

    [34]Feb 21, 2009
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    martymcflyjb wrote:

    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    I'm a bit worried that they may slip a bit before the end, because it's hard for a show to remain consistantly good for so long. If a show has so many great episodes, and I get used to having that, even a very good episode can seem disappointing by comparison.

    Aw, I think you jinxed it!

    Heh. Yeah. I was disappointed with this one. I didn't like how petty and jealous Ellen was acting. I thought that she was great in the last episode, and wish she would have continued acting like that, instead of the way she did in this episode. I instantly went back to hating her like I used to before she died. I wish that they didn't kill off the baby, because I'd like to see them explore it more, and have it be more important to the overall story. But if they did have to kill it off, at least we got some very good scenes with Six and Tigh. Also, I really lked the scene between Six and Roslin. In that scene, it was hinted that the visions that they had were somehow stopped by the baby. If this is the case, I'm hoping that now that the baby is gone, we'll be able to see more of this in the future, so that they can explain more about it. At first I didn't really care for Gaius' story that much, but it did get better before the end. I do think that something will happen as a result of them getting those guns. I also loved seeing head Six back again. I was hoping that they'd bring her back soon so that they could explore that story more. Overall, it was disappointing, and one of my least favorite in a while. That being said, it was still a good episode, especially towards the end, with the baby stuff and Gaius. I have a feeling that it did set up a few elements that are going to be very important in the future, but at the same time, it did feel like a stand-alone episode, which wouldn't be so bad if we weren't so close to the end of the series.

    I agree that Ellen was Petty and Jealous, but lets face it that is a very human trait and that is what the FF is always striving to achieve. But I dont think we can totally blame Ellen for Liam death. Tigh is more to blame. It all started when Tigh and Ellen started having sex. Ellen didnt know about the baby but Tigh did. Also if Tigh had told Ellen about the baby instead of letting her find out like she did I think things would have been easier for everyone. The way Tigh handled it is also very human. Most men dont like personal conflict somehow they think if they ignore it that it will go away, but it never does. Ellen was not hurt and upset about the baby, but by the betrayal of Tigh for not respecting their love and telling her the whole truth. A couple of thousand of years is a long time to share.

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  • Avatar of AngeliqueH

    AngeliqueH

    [35]Feb 21, 2009
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    BHSWorkstation wrote:
    I am probably the first to notice this, but Adama was shown four separate times with a painfully troubled expression while Cylon workers applied the "goo" to Galactica. Once, great idea. Twice, I'm OK with it. Three or more times, I suspect there were a few other plot points that could have used that time.

    "Adama constantly checking the ship- WE GET IT! why did we need 4 cutaways to the same expression and a 6 rubbing goo in cracks?" Reply #20 by Sektos. Plus probably everyone who watched the episode thought the same. So no, you're not the first, and not the only one either.

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [36]Feb 21, 2009
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    Be careful about posting about spoilers from next week's episode. Some people intentionally avoid the promos so they don't learn anything about the future episodes. We can talk about spoilers from "Deadlock" here but not spoilers from "Someone to Watch Over Me".
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  • Avatar of BHSWorkstation

    BHSWorkstation

    [37]Feb 21, 2009
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    I actually read all of the posts and couldn't help but notice most people were a bit annoyed with the over-emphasis on the goo application. I was just being facetious to point out how obvious it was. I guess a facetious sense of humor doesn't carry over too well in print and I've come to rely a little too heavily on sarcasm (one of the dangers of teaching high school for too long). In any case, I think we can all agree that the point would have been more effective with a little more subtle delivery.
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    Invader_of_53

    [38]Feb 21, 2009
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    Is it just me or did Tigh cry harder for the death of his child than he did when he killed Ellen? I don't believe it was as pointless as some have suggested. In addition to one's observation about the philosophical connotations, let us remember the words of the first Hybrid: "And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." If I have to explain it, then I've already lost you. And while I'm at it, going back to that while there was dialogue about Hera, I recall this gem: "The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning." I used to think that Kara, or maybe Spectre Six. I now believe it's Hera.

    And the integration of the Cylons is psychological piece to the puzzle. The fleet, the crew of Galactica, even Galactica itself. But I really think the mantra of "This has happened before and it will happen again" is making itself evident as the conlusion to things. We're seeing the clearly segegrated 13 tribes slowly come together. This was hinted as much in the previous episode when Lee commented about the irrelevance of delegates representing colonies that are now gone. I predict that they'll find another planet, settle there and humanity will live together with Cylon for awhile until they are forced to go into an exodus. I think the Cylon urge to split was an indication of their seperation from the other 12 Tribes so long ago.

    I think Ellen's behaviour is a great continuation of the evil streak demonstrated intiated by Tory. It's hard to really get a grasp on them individually because of the integration they have with human memories and not really know what they were like prior to Cavil's jerry-rigging of the minds, but it seems that humanity is contaminating them on some level or another. Tyrol is kind of confusing me. When he finds out that he's a Cylon he seems so angry, then he accepts it, allies himself with the Cylons, then accepts reinstatement as Chief as he repairs Galactica, then is ready to just jump away. Also, didn't he say on the other Cylons' behalf that they needed Galactica's protection in the chance they run into Cavil's forces? How much of a chance do they expect by themselves? Someone clearly didn't think this whole "let's stake out a living alone" thing all the way through. And where is Athena in this whole thing? She seems to have been conspicuously absent in light of recent events. I also fell in love with Tigh (in only that way a heterosexual man can love another man). If I were him I would have done the same thing. Ellen voted to leave only out of spite. If that's the future of a relationship, I would have said bollocks to that as well. Not to mention that Tory and Tyrol ignore Anders's warning. Tigh is the only one really thinking things clearly.

    The humour was great, but my only problem with the episode was the Baltar storyline. I didn't really get into it and I still don't know where it's really going at this point. But it did show some selfishness on Baltar's part. From him being guilty about abandonding his followers to worming his way off the hook by supporting whatever explanation they phantomed up in his absence to him thinking a child was named after him (and do remember that Baltar's celebrity status dates back to before the destruction of the Colonies). I also noticed Adama overseeing the application of the Cylon organic substance, but wasn't that annoyed. I think it's better to make sure the point was hit on than leave it empty. I think the point in question was that Adama had to be there to see the stuff work its magic, to see his ship become alien before his eyes. Again, a great analogy to where we're at in this point in the story.

    By the way, when I they said that the baby's name was going to be Liam, I instantly recalled what I thought was a useless fact, that Liam is an Irish variant of the name William. But the damnedest thing is I failed to connect it to either the episode writer or the elder Adama.
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    anthem47

    [39]Feb 21, 2009
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    I was just thinking how if I didn't know the end was four episodes away, I wouldn't have guessed it. I enjoyed this episode but it definitely felt like a lot of set-up.

    That's mostly because I've never enjoyed the whole Tigh-Caprica Six plot. It always felt like a big miss-step, taking Tigh away from his love for Ellen, throwing another Cylon baby into the mix, taking Caprica Six further away from Baltar...it just seemed to muddy a lot of waters and not really move the plot in any new directions. I was never too rapt in the Cult of Baltar either, so maybe I was predestined to not enjoy this episode too much!

    On the other hand I loved Michael Hogan's performance, and Adama comforting his friend at the end got me a bit welled up, hehe, so it wasn't all bad. The thing that really got my curiosity going was Kara spotting the piano...I've been keeping track of the YWKTT clues since they were revealed, and I think that shot of her at the piano (do i need to spoiler tag that?) is the last unseen clue we have (unless the first clue, the quote 'You have heard my voice countless times yet you do not know my name' is a direct quote from an episode. At any rate it seems to be referring to the Head people). Can't wait to see where that goes.

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    ISpeakTheTruth

    [40]Feb 21, 2009
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    I was actually felt the exact opposite, I realy like the Tigh-Caprica plot because it was a surprise but one that I think works out very well. I really liked the last few episodes that they were in and they were both so happy, it was the way they smiled I've never seen those two characters smile like that and seem so happy.

    I did like however that we finally got to see how much those two characters cared about one another. I was always a bit unsure as to what each one felt for the other but you really got to see it and I loved that. The baby dying was the saddest thing I've ever seen on this show and the acting of those two sold it they looked like their world had been torn down.

    And like alot of people have said the scene where Adama in hugging Tigh is just moving.
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