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Discussion - "Deadlock" (spoilers) (2/20/09)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [41]Feb 21, 2009
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    There is something that I thought I noticed, yet no one has mentioned yet. When Ellen and Tigh are having sex, are there a couple seconds where she morphs into Six? Kind of like the opposite of when Tigh was seeing Ellen in Six. Can someone confirm this? I though I saw it but it might have just been my imagination.
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    Invader_of_53

    [42]Feb 21, 2009
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    I don't even need to go back and check because I noticed it the very first time around. He does indeed see Caprica's face. I think it's a sign that his feelings had shifted to her.
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  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [43]Feb 21, 2009
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    So I guess what Ellen told Caprica was true, Tigh loves Caprica more than he ever did Ellen.

    I think that's what made her so angry because her and Tigh had been together for thousands of years and she never became pregnant and as we know Cylons need love in order to do that... and he never loved her enough to make that happen.
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  • Avatar of anthem47

    anthem47

    [44]Feb 22, 2009
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    Regarding Starbuck and the piano, I noticed that the scifi.com website describes the next episode as...
    ***SPOILER***
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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [45]Feb 22, 2009
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    I noticed the Ellen/Six thing too, just forgot about it. It is a great reference to when Tigh was first attracted to Caprica and he saw Ellen.

    Liam's death brought back the feeling of a previous event. Remember when Helo and Athena thought that Hera was stillborn? The scene when Helo let the ashes go was equally as poignant as Saul going to Adama for comfort. Even though the baby is dead there will be many ramifications to follow just like the apparent death of Hera beforehand.

    Edited on 02/22/2009 2:26am
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [46]Feb 22, 2009
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    anthem47 wrote:
    Regarding Starbuck and the piano, I noticed that the scifi.com website describes the next episode as...
    ***SPOILER***

    No, it's not Bear in that photo.

    Scroll down to the bottom of this post on Bear's blog to see the screenshot from his cameo. He has dark brown hair that is kind of long in the front and that hangs down on the sides of his face.
    Edited on 02/22/2009 5:49am
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  • Avatar of slowblink

    slowblink

    [47]Feb 22, 2009
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    Didn't enjoy this episode at all. Melrose Place in space.
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [48]Feb 22, 2009
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    Good tie in episode bringing back Balthar into his old messiah self and getting Adama to give him weapons to boot didn't see that coming. The cylons are staying now ok good for more conflict and now what to do with Boomer. The episode was a tad slow but as I said for me it was perfect for bringing things together.
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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [49]Feb 23, 2009
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    hazelnut144 wrote:
    There is something that I thought I noticed, yet no one has mentioned yet. When Ellen and Tigh are having sex, are there a couple seconds where she morphs into Six? Kind of like the opposite of when Tigh was seeing Ellen in Six. Can someone confirm this? I though I saw it but it might have just been my imagination.

    Confirmed. This represents the fact that Saul has moved on from Ellen and truly loves Caprica now.

    I really think the writers blew it with their treatment of Ellen in this episode. In fact, I think a lot of the characters were "off". I find it hard to believe that the Chief would have voted to return to the base star. Even Lee did not seem to act the way I would have expected when interviewing Ellen.

    The Baltar plot-line was confusing. He would not have normally solved that problem in the manner that he did. Paula gets guns - I get bigger guns? Please. He would have been far more Machievellian in dismantling any threat.

    It was a shame that they killed Liam... it's right up there with little baby Tyrol being little baby Hot Dog. Why get Caprica pregnant in the first place?

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    ebony_kunoichi

    [50]Feb 23, 2009
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    The pregnancy of Caprica makes total sense. If the cylons can have babies by themselves then why would they need the humans? Cylon hybrids are the future. Cylons cannot procreate now that was the whole point. The cylons need to mate with the humans. I thought Ellen was being a bit petty, but then again jealousy is jealousy the FF arent gods or totally evolved beings. They are just like humans in so many ways.

    What reallly confused me is that adama gave Baltar Guns, I was like what!!?!?!? why?????? I am so confused by Baltar. I dont know if he wants to help people really or not. I have been confused by his character since the beginning of the last season. Why does he want or need followers? Where will this lead? and what about head six returning? im so confused.

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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [51]Feb 23, 2009
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    123home123 wrote:
    I don't think the piano has any significance in the story. It was just an inside joke signaling that Bear McCreary was in the picture.

    I think the reason why this episode felt different is because of the writer, Jane Espenson, who is also a co-executive producer this season. She is reportedly well-known for her work on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which I never really followed. She has said in the past that she has more of a comedic side to her than perhaps Ronald Moore does. I've noticed some tendencies in her scripts. She often adds an extended scene of Adama and Tigh drinking together and getting sloppy drunk, where Tigh has that sort of cackling laugh. We saw that drinking scene motif in this episode. In one of Espenson's earlier scripts, she added the drinking scene where Adama and Tigh were laughing about the paper not having any corners or cutting corners or something like that. I didn't really get the joke that time.

    Espenson also tends to throw in more "one liners" than is usual for a BSG episode. I track this through the presence of quotes in each episode that can work as stand-alone quotes in the episode guide on TV.com. Some of the best BSG episodes don't really have many good stand-alone quotes because they are so tied into the onscreen drama that they don't make much sense out of context. Either that or there are very powerful speeches from characters like Adama, Lee or Baltar that run several paragraphs long.

    In this episode, there were a few humorous bits that most of the other BSG writers don't usually add. This includes the scene where Baltar thinks the young boy is named after him ("Gaius") but he finds out that the boy was named after his father. I laughed at that scene but then Baltar had a strange pause, which immediately killed the humorous tone. For a moment, I thought maybe the woman had been one of Baltar's groupies and he himself was the father of the boy. But the boy was too old to have been born in that time frame, so I don't think Baltar was the father.

    I thought the other one-liner was funny, when Ellen told Tigh, "Please, do not tell me I was your mental porn. That's just sad!" But after reading the other comments here, that line might have been part of the problem with Ellen's characterization. Despite the fact that she now remembers that she is one of the Five, she still acts as petty as she did when she thought she was just a regular human. It was strange seeing a member of the grand "Final Five" acting like a child. It took away from some of the drama of the "deadlock" in the episode title, the divided vote on whether to flee the Colonial fleet and create a new "pure" Cylon civilization. Instead of that momentous story line, the main story turned out to be a husband-and-wife squabble. Given that we're heading into the home stretch of the series, I don't think that was the right tack to take in this episode either.

    Not that I think the episode was bad. It was still pretty good and the moments of humor were good for a chuckle or two but this was a story that might have fit better in an earlier season, maybe Season 2 or Season 3. Other than the death of Liam, it was more like a stand-alone episode than a part of the ongoing mythology of the series. With just a few episodes remaining, we don't really need stand-alone stories. Even though we were led to believe that Ellen and the other Cylons could flee and abandon the humans to almost certain destruction (from the dwindling food supplies and the deterioration of the Galactica), we find that Ellen never even considered that to be a real possibility. She only voted to leave to get back at Saul and Caprica Six, but she never intended to leave, unless she wanted to play chicken with Saul.

    I thought there would be more resolution or information about Ellen's importance as the Final Cylon. Not much really happened along that path. Nothing was resolved with Boomer, Kara or Anders either. Or between Tyrol and Boomer.

    I'm now wondering if the end of the series could have something to do with the Galactica actually falling apart, despite the efforts of Tyrol to patch the ship together with the Cylon goo. It's the only large military ship in the Fleet. Without her, the Fleet is just a bunch of vulnerable and slow civilian ships. Maybe the Galactica falls apart and then Cavil arrives, ready to blow away the remnants of the Colonial Fleet. But then he has a change of heart for some reason, maybe related to Ellen and the Final Five. Or he does destroy most of the Fleet but he himself is destroyed. But his new resurrection ship survives along with a handful of humans and rebel Cylons. This small group would form the basis of a new "blended" society (to use Baltar's term). This is all just speculation by the way. I have no idea what's going to happen at the end of the season. I haven't read a single spoiler online.


    Your post really summed up everything I had in my mind. So instead of repeating it with a very long post, I'll stick to this nice quote.
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  • Avatar of scififan12921

    scififan12921

    [52]Feb 23, 2009
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    first time through I agreed with the posts about too many references to the ship repair but on hindsight I think it was a hint to Adama's line "it's already happened hasn't it?" When he's talking to Roslin at the memorial wall. Baltar says it will become a blended ship but it already is.

    I had a feeling Ellen wasn't going to be very happy about the baby situation but my goodness! She turned into a beast!

    Still lots of questions and not much time left for answers, I think this episode was the deep breath before the wave of excitement hits us.

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  • Avatar of tommy0122

    tommy0122

    [53]Feb 24, 2009
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    scififan12921 wrote:

    ............................I think this episode was the deep breath before the wave of excitement hits us.

    I certainly hope so. I considered this episode to be a waste. With only 4 to go, I hope the writers aren't going to just throw something together to get it over with. It's happened on other series unfortunely. I hope it doesn't happen to BSG!

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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [54]Feb 24, 2009
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    Concerning the rips in the hull and Adama spending so much time looking at it, Ron indicated in a previous pod-cast that there's something pretty important being set up there. Why it required that many scenes, I can't be sure, but I'm hoping it's worth the time spent.

    Haven't seen this episode or the enhanced one with the podcast posted on Sci-fi yet. Been looking forward to the commentary during those scenes.

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of psychickiller

    psychickiller

    [55]Feb 24, 2009
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    I kept waiting for something to happen concerning the rips in the hull... Yet they just kept showing Adama looking at it endlessly. Copy/Paste?
    Edited on 02/24/2009 12:54pm
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  • Avatar of blackphonix

    blackphonix

    [56]Feb 24, 2009
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    This episode was alright, although the scenes with Baltar were a bit weird, especially with the guns. I think that Paula is going to try something with the guns that the cult has gotten off Adama, she seems the type to take over if she thinks that Baltar is going in the wrong direction with his teachings, she was hostile when Baltar came back (which is understandable considering that Baltar pretty much abandoned them during that coup) and I don't think that she liked giving up the power that she had while he was gone. But the writers haven't really advanced Baltar's storyline in a while. When are we going to find out what the heck he is?! All we know is that he's important somehow. And only four or five episodes left!! It was really sad with Tigh and Caprica's baby though. I had real hopes of Ellen not being a total psycho like she was earlier in the series. She was so much better when facing off with Cavil, but nooo, they had to make her a b*tch again!
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  • Avatar of guyroy1971

    guyroy1971

    [57]Feb 25, 2009
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    read the posts and I thought the episode was OK. The goo on the ship mirrored Tigh and six losing the baby, as it shows that the humans and cylons are blending together, both personally and symbolically with the ship. I for one will be surprised if there are any further revelations about Baltar. I think his storyline is how he is finally becoming a real person and leader after being a traitor(I don't know if head six actually signifies anything or is just his own thoughts) I think ellen bactracking from the way she acted last episode was ok since it is consistent with her character. I think the writer's intentionally did that as that is the way her relationship with Tigh always is. The have a love/hate thing going and always will. I was a little disappointed with the whole cylon leaving story as they just asked to be made citizens and Tyrol was made chief again. I didn't get his motivation for wanting to leave so badly, everyone on the ship still likes him. For them to suddenly want to leave just because ellen came back seemed unnecessary. I actually thought it would have been better to make him the swing vote with ellen wanting to leave. (she had no friendships there and would want Tigh away from Adama finally)
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  • Avatar of Tadanga

    Tadanga

    [58]Feb 25, 2009
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    On top of all the things already brought up by previous posts, I have to say that I was really struck in this episode as to Tricia Helfer's maturity as an actress. She came a long way from that half-naked blond and is now, I feel, as soulful a character on screen as any of the other seasoned actors. She and Ty are the revelations of this show. The other thing is the Cylon memorial wall. It was a great touch but I just don't remember so many Cylons dying since they joined up with the fleet. The only join active combat I remember is the taking down of the resurrection hub and that was never presented as the slaughter it would take to have close to 100 photos on that wall.
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    Daxx00004

    [59]Feb 25, 2009
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    Tadanga wrote:
    On top of all the things already brought up by previous posts, I have to say that I was really struck in this episode as to Tricia Helfer's maturity as an actress. She came a long way from that half-naked blond and is now, I feel, as soulful a character on screen as any of the other seasoned actors. She and Ty are the revelations of this show. The other thing is the Cylon memorial wall. It was a great touch but I just don't remember so many Cylons dying since they joined up with the fleet. The only join active combat I remember is the taking down of the resurrection hub and that was never presented as the slaughter it would take to have close to 100 photos on that wall.

    They are not necessarily those that died since joining the fleet. There could have been some that died when the other resurrection ship was destroyed then there was the whole Baseship that died from disease.
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  • Avatar of scififan12921

    scififan12921

    [60]Feb 25, 2009
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    Daxx00004 wrote:
    Tadanga wrote:
    On top of all the things already brought up by previous posts, I have to say that I was really struck in this episode as to Tricia Helfer's maturity as an actress. She came a long way from that half-naked blond and is now, I feel, as soulful a character on screen as any of the other seasoned actors. She and Ty are the revelations of this show. The other thing is the Cylon memorial wall. It was a great touch but I just don't remember so many Cylons dying since they joined up with the fleet. The only join active combat I remember is the taking down of the resurrection hub and that was never presented as the slaughter it would take to have close to 100 photos on that wall.

    They are not necessarily those that died since joining the fleet. There could have been some that died when the other resurrection ship was destroyed then there was the whole Baseship that died from disease.
    There are probably some that were killed when some ships resisted having cylon technology brought on board during the mutiny as well.
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