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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Dirty Hands" (2/25/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of quote12

    quote12

    [41]Feb 26, 2007
    • member since: 09/08/06
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    Orangoutan wrote:
    That Adama is one strange old man, with a shrug of his shoulders he gladly accepts that Helo has committed treason on numerous occasions, but when someone don't want put in extra time it's time to shoot them on the deck?


    Valid point, but one of the ongoing themes of the series has been the difficulty some of the military leadership has in accepting civilian authority and democracy. Some of the weaknesses in recent episodes is due to the forced rewrites, as well as to the bungled hangling of the brief New Caprica interlude. The writers are now belatedly exploring themes that were quickly glossed over, or edited out of, that story arc.


    That said, while this conflict was resolved too patly, with whiplash changes in attitude by Adama, it was well done up to that point, with strong performances by the other actors. Like some other posts here, I'm encouraged by the writers' willingness to do more than a space shoot-'em-up, and the cast's ability to make the writing come alive. The examination of how the other half lives within the fleet makes the population tally at the start of episode more than just a number. I feel this season is steadily regaining momentum along with viewers.
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  • Avatar of AthenaAurora

    AthenaAurora

    [42]Feb 26, 2007
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    Another fine story to add to the history books of Galactica. Whether a reference to Hitler the WWII incident or current immigrants it shows that the writers have studied at least in part of how a society must function together if they're going to beat the odds together. Though it seemed trivial as in the "strike", I liked the way it used the kids to open the Chiefs eyes as to the future of his own family and how Cally might feel that they're in a lower class. However I do feel that this was part of Baltars own self preservation. You can see he is looking forward to his trial in order to divide the people by his pros as he did it in the election. I find Cally to be honest yet annoying as usual in which she regarded Dee as a person who slept her way to the top. That is the kind of remark (though seemingly innocent) that would definitely get you tossed from a dinner party. I think that anyone who comes from a society that demands or stereotypes you into being something you don't choose to fit is common for anyone to understand. Baltar disguised his accent and pursued science. Dee dropped her Saggitarran roots for the military. They were all kids once that looked up to the stars one night and dared to dream.
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  • Avatar of ellewiz

    ellewiz

    [43]Feb 26, 2007
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    What happened to the kid who helped unjam the machine? Did he lose an arm, a hand, or just cut himself?

    The Adama thing was way harsh, but truth is: they are at war. They're in the military. The thing about shooting Cally got silly, but Adama was honest. If soldiers stop following orders, people can die.

    We liked this episode because you could really appreciate everyone's viewpoint.
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  • Avatar of tribalchic

    tribalchic

    [44]Feb 26, 2007
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    i thought this episode was an awesome installment to the series.i have liked these low-key episodes without starbuck crashing vipers and shooting everyone.....its just another fine example that this is not just a scifi show but a drama based on scifi events. as usual baltar stole the show again(for me anyways)any scene with james callis is a notch above the rest.i usually say the same thing for adama and roslin since they are equally talented actors but their actions in this episode left me speechless.expecially adama,his statement about lining up kali and a dozen more to be executed sounded like somthing the cylons would do when baltar was president.but all in all another great episode.    
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  • Avatar of cs11wa

    cs11wa

    [45]Feb 26, 2007
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    During season 1 they find a cyclon asteroid fuel mine and it will last for several years. Now they say enough for 2 jump.
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  • Avatar of aimers22

    aimers22

    [46]Feb 26, 2007
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    Adama may seem cruel and harsh, but the simple fact is that he was doing his job. If the cylons attacked in that time period the entire fleet would have been destroyed. Not the time to be screwing around. Also I think Adama wouldn't have been so pissed if Tyrol had kept the strike to the refinery only. However, I am glad that Rosalin took some responsibility and decided to actually hear out Tyrol at the end. She must have realized how bad it was if Tyrol was willing to go to prison.

    On another note. Why are people actually listening to Baltar? He already totally screwed them over. Its like deciding to root for Hitler after WWII. Sometimes (talking about real life now) it amazes me how little awareness people have about how badly people are manipulating them. I wonder how many colonists actually realize that Baltar is just trying to create controversy for his trial in a very pathetic and shameful attempt to prolong his life. His selfishness never ceases to amaze me. He would throw the colony on the brink of civil war just to protect himself. He can't be a cylon b/c only humans are capable of such horrific self centeredness
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  • Avatar of gabfan31

    gabfan31

    [47]Feb 27, 2007
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    cs11wa wrote:
    During season 1 they find a cyclon asteroid fuel mine and it will last for several years. Now they say enough for 2 jump.

    They had enough of the raw materials, they just didn't have enough refined. You can have all of the oil in Saudi Arabia but it won't make your car go until somebody makes it gasoline.

    I also liked this episode, though I agree the immediate 360° by Adama was a little too easy. But it made sense in a way- he can't make civilians behave like the military, but the military has to have a working chain of command to function. And making Tyrol head of the Union makes it more palatable for Adama and Roslin to swallow, since they know how far they can push him. In the end, they all need a system that works, and if that means a Union, then they can have one, as long as it is someone that they trust in charge. Baltar was brilliant again, and even though he's one of my least favorite characters, he's someone that adds incredible depths to the series. He's definitely been growing on me now that he isn't always blowing off reality to get down with the Number Six in his head.

    This said, I am now officially ready for a space battle or three. I love the strong drama, but I also like some action every now and then. Hopefully it'll be soon! 

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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [48]Feb 27, 2007
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    cs11wa wrote:
    During season 1 they find a cyclon asteroid fuel mine and it will last for several years. Now they say enough for 2 jump.

    Good point, but I'm chalking it to the difference between raw material and refined fuel. Also, its been a few years since season 1.

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  • Avatar of dregj

    dregj

    [49]Feb 27, 2007
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    Baltars accent
    Was that a yorkshire accent?
    He even talked about going down t'pub for a pint
    do you suppose he keeps wippets?
    all he needs is a flat cap

    Was this a joke or his colonial accent
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  • Avatar of mgtsol

    mgtsol

    [50]Feb 27, 2007
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    haha, aye lad that were a full-on Yorkshire accent, when he startied speaking like that i thought for a minute i was watching some kind of space version of Last of the Summer Wine!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_of_the_summer_wine
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  • Avatar of stgiavanni

    stgiavanni

    [51]Feb 27, 2007
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    I think that this episode illustrated that the fleet needs the cylons to hold them together.  Cylons have said many times that humans kill each other everyday and are willing to destroy themselves but want to fight like hell when it is someone else doing the killings.  Maybe the cylon threat is really test from the gods, testing whether the human fleet deserves to survive the way they are.  Maybe Adama will be able to answer that question before they find earth.
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  • Avatar of dgreener1

    dgreener1

    [52]Feb 27, 2007
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    I thought this was a great episode.  Nice break from the search for Earth. There's only so much of that you can bear.  The socialist theme was interesting.  I hope they don't get too political though, but it seems like Baltar and Roslin are going in opposite directions, which is weird since Roslin is a teacher and was once considered too weak to lead the fleet. 

    Did anyone notice that Xeno Fenner was not credited anywhere in the show.  He is listed as David Patrick Green on IMDB, but his name did not appear anywhere in the credits, front or back.  I also noticed that he is not listed on this site's episode cast either.  Why the mystery?
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  • Avatar of facewweasel

    facewweasel

    [53]Feb 27, 2007
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    not sure if anyone posted this but if adama was to kill off the workers who would've taken their jobs without any training. i thought possible that the chief caved early- adama didn't really have any power without chief's crew whose going to make sure galactica and the vipers are running

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  • Avatar of aimers22

    aimers22

    [54]Feb 27, 2007
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    Adama wasn't going to kill the workers in the plant. He was going to kill Cally (SP?) then the other flight crew.
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  • Avatar of facewweasel

    facewweasel

    [55]Feb 27, 2007
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    but like i posted before whose going to replace them without any traing
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  • Avatar of AprilFox

    AprilFox

    [56]Feb 27, 2007
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    An outstanding episode. Tyrol is really coming into his own. Baltar is still the sneaky devil he always was. Adama holds his own as the true savior of the fleet. Loved the interaction between Roslin and Tyrol. It was very easy to see both sides and come to a sort of understanding. Brilliantly done!  Just one question, shouldn't it be Arialan ? From the way the Zodiac is used the proper spelling and usuage is Arialan. Just a thought.
    Edited on 02/27/2007 5:08pm
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  • Avatar of Mangalore

    Mangalore

    [57]Feb 27, 2007
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    Orangoutan wrote:
    That Adama is one strange old man, with a shrug of his shoulders he gladly accepts that Helo has committed treason on numerous occasions, but when someone don't want put in extra time it's time to shoot them on the deck?


    It's actually not. With all his insubordinations Helo never pushed the fleet and specifically Adama into a corner and closed all escape routes. He might have risked that information be leaked to the cylons but he didn't destroy crew morale and the fighting capability of the ship and thus Adama remained in control of how to react if his actions would lead to crisis.
    Without vipers ready to launch and without fuel however Galactica would be only a big target and everyone would simply die.

    The old man is rather forgiving in some aspects but not in all.Thinking about it I believe anyone who appeared to go up against him did not openly disobey orders but instead made decisions that were not his or her to make. In all other aspects Adama has constantly shown that he'll follow military doctrine and tradition to the line. Just think back how he had Roslin arrested without hesitation when he believed she was violating the traditional division of political and military command.

    To the Hitler allusions... Anyone actually read "Mein Kampf"? It is incoherent garbage and not a manifest about social order (it contains incoherent writing about pseudo-scientific darwinsitic theories of masterraces and subhumans obviously). Hitler had nothing against capitalism and aristocrats. He had his SA friends shot (the SA was the paramilitary organization of the nationalsocialist party and heavily influenced by socialist ideas) in favour of capitalists
    Edited on 02/28/2007 8:36am
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [58]Feb 27, 2007
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    Mangalore wrote:
    To the Hitler allusions... Anyone actually read "Mein Kampf"? It is incoherent garbage and not a manifest about social order (it contains incoherent writing about pseudo-scientific darwinsitic theories of masterraces and subhumans obviously). Hitler had nothing against capitalism and aristocrats. He had his SA friends (the SA was the paramilitary organization of the nationalsocialist party and heavily influenced by socialist ideas as it was filled with people of the worker forbidden>

    Yeah, I didn't totally like the Mein Kampf analogies, either. The only real similarity is that Baltar and Hitler both wrote their books while in prison.

    Baltar's book actually seems to have more in common with the works of Karl Marx on Communism/Socialism.

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  • Avatar of felicore

    felicore

    [59]Feb 27, 2007
    • member since: 02/28/07
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    copygeek wrote:

    Yeah, I didn't totally like the Mein Kampf analogies, either. The only real similarity is that Baltar and Hitler both wrote their books while in prison.

    Baltar's book actually seems to have more in common with the works of Karl Marx on Communism/Socialism.



    mh, i think the writers intended the analogies to mein kampf. that book
    is surely a piece of crap, but the people bought and read it
    nevertheless. and there are still people who read it and think that it
    worth more than the paper its printed on - the dangerous thing is that
    the book contains exactly the things those people want to hear - it
    offers simple solutions to complex problems. and that's what baltar's
    book does - and, since tyrol refers to it as being a pile of trash (or
    something like that) it does not seem to offer much more than that.
    baltar probably hopes this book will help him in the upcoming trial....
    let's see how that will turn out.



    and the paralells to marx' works.... i don't think so. try reading the "capital" - that's far from being easily accessible.
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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [60]Feb 27, 2007
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    For that matter, the "Little Red Book" of Mao Tse Tung could play a part also.  Mein Kamf is a tough read and a scary insight into a twisted mind.  The whole class warfare gambit used by creeps like these really makes you wonder about humanity, which I suppose is the part of the point here.
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