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Discussion-"Guess What's Coming to Dinner?" (5/16/08) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of SoDaR2003

    SoDaR2003

    [61]May 19, 2008
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    ebony_kunoichi wrote:

    Can someone give me a run down of who is on the basestar? I think those on the basestar hold some importance.


    The most important characters on the Baseship at the time of Jump were:

    Leoben,

    Leader of the Number 8's

    Helo

    Roslin

    Baltar

    Also there were quite a lot of Raptor Pilots and probably engineers helping with the Raptor supply on the Baseship ready for the attack on the Hub. There were quite a few Marines on the Baseship aswell.

    Edited on 05/19/2008 12:42pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of Vincent2013

    Vincent2013

    [62]May 19, 2008
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    Is it possible that Roslin or Baltar could be reveiled as the final cylon
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [63]May 19, 2008
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    Well, um, yeah.
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  • Avatar of adiav

    adiav

    [64]May 20, 2008
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    Did anyone else find it strange that Leoben sent Natalie off the ship to stall for time, saying he'll take care of the Centurions, because they're already "committed" to the hostage-scenario? I mean, even with their chips all changed about, can't they be "un-committed"?

    And then, with Leoben in charge, the Hybrid wakes up and immediately jumps the basestar? Sorry, but I don't trust Leoben, and never have. He may be all prophetic, but he's still the crazy nutjob who held Starbuck captive on New Caprica for four months... what if he told the Centurions to tell the Hybrid when she awoke to jump? The Centurions, surely, can communicate with the Hybrid at machine-fast speeds and without having to be hooked up to it, or they could've left it a command so that when it booted up it followed it immediately...

    All in all, a pretty good episode. I could see a lot of it coming, but I didn't groan when it happened, which is the main thing. Tyrol coming to Athena's aid was interesting, and makes me wonder where their relationship will go from here (I mean, I don't think she's about to go shack up with him, but they haven't been on good terms since Athena arrived on Galactica). Athena's shooting of Natalie was pretty unnecessary (without any rebuke from Natalie even), although I guess they had to make her the dying leader somehow, and now I wonder exactly what the "truth" of the opera house was that she was to learn.

    Eh, I hope she survives it somehow. She's an interesting character.
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  • Avatar of Vincent2013

    Vincent2013

    [65]May 20, 2008
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    I dont mean to be off topic but for anybody who cares today is my birthday and i am the big 2-1
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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [66]May 20, 2008
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    Ummm. you would probably be welcome to post that over at the Chat at Joe's Bar link.
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  • Avatar of ebony_kunoichi

    ebony_kunoichi

    [67]May 20, 2008
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    Awww happy 21st Vincent. I remember way back in the day when i was 21.

    I hope Athena is coming to her end. Flush her out the airlock!

    I dont truly trust Leoban, but I think now that he captured Kara to try to get her to remember stuff.

    I now believe more than ever that Roslin is a cylon. Either her or Tighs wife and what is Tigh doing with the 6? something about DNA???

    Edited on 05/20/2008 11:00am
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  • Avatar of vetz

    vetz

    [68]May 20, 2008
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    Did anybody else catch the countdown before the Demetrius and the Basestar jumped? I just wonder if there is some significance to the characters that they showed with each number - for example, when Athena said "Six", it cut to Six, and on "Five" it cut to Starbuck ...
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  • Avatar of GavinGibbons

    GavinGibbons

    [69]May 20, 2008
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    This episode left me actually wanting Geata to be the final cylon (even though i think it is not him) that way he could die (if the reserrection isn't destroyed) and get a body that has bi-legs (Aka 2 legs)
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [70]May 20, 2008
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    They're doing everything to point to Gaeta as the final one. Not wanting to be put under. I sort of expected the line to be like this;

    Gaeta: I don't want to wake up missing a leg

    Doc Cottle: So you want to be awake while it's taken off?!?!? Tell me how that's an improvement!

    The singing to deal with the pain. His ability to calculate jumps with accuracy. Setting up firewalls almost good enough to keep the Cylons out..... There's lots of setup here.

    I still think the final one is Ellen for reasons posted elsewhere, especially after examining the dialogue from "Tigh me up Tigh me down".

    On a couple of different notes. I wonder what Starbuck's answer was to Tigh's question; "So which one of them shot Gaeta?". That answer would have a lot to do with uncovering the mutiny. Is Helo, Seelix, and Gaeta going to "Walk away" from that one?

    One other thing I never noticed before.

    Those double barreled cannons on the outside of Galactica that presumably throw up the anti missile barrage. When we see that thing wheeling around early in the episode, I noticed a bubble in the middle of the two cannons that looked very much like the firing chambers on the Millennium Falcon. 2 people inside.

    It sure explains a lot. I had assumed that those batteries were computer controlled, but apparently not. They've got people inside those controlling the salvos.

    Pretty cool stuff.

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of trevorvos

    trevorvos

    [71]May 20, 2008
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    Hoeech wrote:
    I'm wondering about the choice of words used by the hybrid in her warning to Starbuck that "You will lead them all to their end". Does that mean she'll lead the human race to their death or to the end of their quest? Could it mean that she may be leading the 3 rebel Cylons to the final 5 that they are so desperately seeking? Any opinions out there?

    yeah, i have thought about this for a while.

    it is purposely ambiguous i'm sure.

    "to their end"?

    is that to their destruction or to their goal?

    is she the harbinger of doom for humans or cylons?

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [72]May 20, 2008
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    After watching some of the episode again, there is even more explanation for why Athena shot Natalie. In the opening, Natalie asks Athena how Hera is doing. Athena immediately becomes suspicious and asks how Natalie knows Hera's name. Natalie says they all do. Thus, Athena's radar has already been alerted by Natalie's interest (real or imagined) in Hera.

    Then with the obsessive drawings of Number Six in Hera's book, the visions of the opera house and Hera running off into the arms of Natalie, it makes even more sense why Athena would be so suspicious of Natalie at the end.

    As for Gaeta being set up as the Final Cylon, there have been a lot of hints at other people this season too. We had the unusual references to Zak Adama early on. Then Leoben said that Kara was one of the few who could hear the music when they were looking for the rebel base ship. There have been hints at Roslin and Baltar too. I'm guessing that none of these people are the Final Cylon because the lead-in is too obvious. I think the writers want to shock everyone with the final revelation.
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  • Avatar of efeatherston

    efeatherston

    [73]May 21, 2008
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    MrBovineOrdure wrote:

    I still think the final one is Ellen for reasons posted elsewhere, especially after examining the dialogue from "Tigh me up Tigh me down".

    My one problem with the Ellen theory is 'Where did she download to?' Can't be the normal resurrection facilities the other 7 use, otherwise they would already know what the 5 look like.

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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [74]May 21, 2008
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    Simple answer, what makes you think she died? There's a couple of possibilities there.

    1) Cylons are immune to the poison Tigh used.

    2) Ellen made her fellow Cylon; Saul only think she was being given poison.

    3) She didn't drink the poison at all. Just a little slight of hand.

    4) She really did die, but was ressurected by the renegade Cylons we saw in Razor.

    After that scene, the rescue started. They left her body where it was.

    She mentioned after first coming on board to the Galactica that she was in a coma. (but the doctors don't remember seeing her until 2 weeks before she was presented to Tigh.) Perhaps this just indicates that she can make herself appear convincingly dead to those that don't pry too closely. Risky maneuver, but she probably considered Tigh to be a much more important asset to keep alive (something she went to extremes to insure)

    I don't think she hitched a ride back on the Galactica or with the Cylons, but with whoever was responsible for creating the Hybrids; the rebel Centurions in Razor. I think she'll be popping up unannounced later.

    It's my theory that she was the off-camera person that the Six met saying; "It's about time you got here". (Many of the other possible candidates can't be that person as they were on the Galactica at that time) Ellen claimed to be on Picon but didn't remember the name of the pilot that took her off that planet. This pretty much covers her tracks on Caprica.

    I think Ellen also has the whole plan and did not have her own memory wiped.

    I think she makes a whole lot more sense than Gaeta though he would be my second guess....

    Mr BO

    Edited on 05/21/2008 11:46am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [75]May 21, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    After watching some of the episode again, there is even more explanation for why Athena shot Natalie. In the opening, Natalie asks Athena how Hera is doing. Athena immediately becomes suspicious and asks how Natalie knows Hera's name. Natalie says they all do. Thus, Athena's radar has already been alerted by Natalie's interest (real or imagined) in Hera.

    Ah. Okay I had forgotten about that. Yeah that would probably edge up Athena's paranoia.

    As to Ellen being a cylon, I don't see them making both Ellen AND Saul cylons, for the same reasons as not being able to see Adama and Roslin as cylons. It's too clumped. Most of the other cylons are relatively spread out. Six seems to usually be some kind of computer technician, Cavil was a priest, D'Anna was a reporter, Sharon is a pilot, Leoban was a black market weapons dealer, Simon was a doctor, Doral was a public affairs person/tour guide, Anders was a sports star, Tigh was close to a fleet command position, Tory was probably in politics in some way, and Chief was in maintenance and stuff. They also had very little to do with each other before the attack. The only ones who certainly interacted regularely were the three militaries, and they are all in completely different functions on the ship. Granted, Chief and Boomer, did have a relationship, so I suppose it isn't completely out of the question that Ellen and Tigh could both be cylons.

    Edited on 05/21/2008 2:51pm
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  • Avatar of weirdaaron

    weirdaaron

    [76]May 21, 2008
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    Ok... I have recently been wondering about Ellen. I rewatched some of season two, and the episode 'tigh me up, tigh me down'. In this episode she is tested for being a cylon, and even though Baltar says she isn't... he makes it look like he is hiding something. It could just be a distraction, but I feel that Ellen's entire story doesn't fit, especially with her survival of the attack. Something is up with her, and it definitally hasn't been resolved. I feel like there is something about her that still needs to be told.(Agian it could just be a distraction or even a dead end.)

    As for Roslin being a cylon... NO NO NO NO!!! Any weird cylon behavior she has can be explained by the fact she has cylon blood in her. She was injected with Hera's blood, CYLON BLOOD. That is how she is connected to Caprica 6, Hera and Athena. She is a cylon in a way, but is NOT the fifth. As for Gaeta... At first I was in pure denial of him being the fifth. However, as I read more and more from fans and connected some things together, I can believe it. There is a strong possibility it is him.

    Edited on 05/21/2008 8:10pm
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  • Avatar of pyrommiv

    pyrommiv

    [77]May 22, 2008
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    This episode was good, but not great. It had alot of build-up on a variety of story lines, but I didn't feel that anything really important happened, until perhaps the very end. It seemed to end just when it got really good. The Athena/Natalie story worked, the way the "alliance" formed and each planned to turn on the other really made sense. Theres too much bad blood for it to work, even though both sides would benefit.

    I wonder if Leoben was concern about the Centurions, as they are now without that control chip, and with one having shot Boomer - maybe he was worried that if they changed their mind with the betrayal plan that they might turn on them. As for the shooting, why is it every-one shoots for the gut? never a head shot! Very reminiscent of adama and boomer getting shot.

    I really wanted more of the scene between the final four, discussing everything that had happened on the baseship, tho i guess Anders was to worked up about Geata to think about it. Also I don't remember any dialogue between Starbuck and Adama and given everything that happened more could have been said.

    The glitch with the Demetrius was always going to happen, Tho the weapons hold seemed obvious, since the base-ship did absolutely nothing, when normally they launch raiders and fire missiles, Surely an experienced commander like Adama would notice something amiss. I don't understand Lee in his new role, doesn't seem to have a point, and a good character is wasted.

    Finally Roslin and Tyrol, both have been through alot recently, but their characters seemed the same as they were at the start of the season. Tyrol was only briefly in it, but i saw it noted he seemed more upbeat. Which doesn't really fit, he didn't really need to be there at all. Roslin seemed unchanged by what seemed to be a major shift with the dialogue with the other cancer patient Emily. I thought she was starting to understand the clyons and Baltars religion more, but it didn't really show.

    Can't wait for the next episode. Just typical they'd have a week off.

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  • Avatar of ebony_kunoichi

    ebony_kunoichi

    [78]May 22, 2008
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    Well i am in denial about Gaeta. I refuse to believe he is a cylon, but now i don't know. I kinda think he is. There has always been something off about Gaeta, but in a good way. He seems very pent up like Tyrol. Maybe that's just the way the writers like it, but I was really pointing to Roslin, but not now. I think she will die at the end of the series. I still suspect Ellen because she came out of nowhere when Tigh thought she was dead. Has anyone thought that Ellen is an older 6??? Do cylons age? Has that ever been answered???

    What about the lawyer guy that Lee was kicking it with? Perharps he is a cylon? Anyone thought of that??

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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [79]May 22, 2008
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    pyrommiv wrote:

    As for the shooting, why is it every-one shoots for the gut? never a head shot! Very reminiscent of adama and boomer getting shot.

    Because anyone who has had any form of training with firearms, particularly handguns, knows to aim for the center of the biggest part of whatever they're shooting at. It's one of the myriad of small details which gives this program its feeling of authenticity.

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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [80]May 22, 2008
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    weirdaaron wrote:

    Ok... I have recently been wondering about Ellen. I rewatched some of season two, and the episode 'tigh me up, tigh me down'. In this episode she is tested for being a cylon, and even though Baltar says she isn't... he makes it look like he is hiding something. It could just be a distraction, but I feel that Ellen's entire story doesn't fit, especially with her survival of the attack. Something is up with her, and it definitally hasn't been resolved. I feel like there is something about her that still needs to be told.(Agian it could just be a distraction or even a dead end.)



    I think that the intention of the ending of "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" was to leave it ambiguous, so that Ellen COULD be brought back as a cylon later if the writers decided to. However, if Baltar knew that she was a cylon, I think he would have at least mentioned it at some point in the Baseship storyline last year, during all the final five fiasco stuff.
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