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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion-"He That Believeth In Me" (U.S. air date 4/4/08) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [41]Apr 5, 2008
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    I kind of wonder why President Roslin went to ask the Number 6 being held in the brig about the Final Five, and not Athena? It seems to me she would be a more trusted source of information about the Cylons.
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  • Avatar of rslade70

    rslade70

    [42]Apr 5, 2008
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    MichaudMR wrote:
    I kind of wonder why President Roslin went to ask the Number 6 being held in the brig about the Final Five, and not Athena? It seems to me she would be a more trusted source of information about the Cylons.


    Funny, I actually thought about that myself. Why not ask Athena about the 5, if she thought Kara was a cylon or anything else. It was Athena that told the Roslin that she could trust Six back when she helped her excape with her baby. But I would think that Athena is the more trusted since she can carry a weapon and have free roam where Six is in the Brig and chained to boot!
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  • Avatar of HellOnEarth101

    HellOnEarth101

    [43]Apr 5, 2008
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    The end part, where Kara pointed the gun at Roslin wasn't as shocking as it should've been, because I'd already seen that part in a promo.
    I didn't realise that she had an intent to kill however, rather than just scare Roslin, until I read the summary on Wikipedia.

    kila177anja12o wrote:
    so if the chief is a cylon and fathered a child, does that mean Athena's kid isn't so special?

    Well, she was still the first one.
    If Nicky is a hybrid, he's the second.
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  • Avatar of krinks

    krinks

    [44]Apr 5, 2008
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    oldsage wrote:

    123home123 wrote:
    Then the scene in the washroom provided some very tense moments, especially when Connor had his knife held against Baltar's throat. Again, he was willing to sacrifice his life. Perhaps part of his motivation was a weariness of the struggles he's been through, and maybe he just didn't care anymore whether he lived or died. I don't think the boy's recovery is supposed to show Baltar's healing powers. We were meant to focus on Number Six's presence in every scene where Baltar attended to the young boy. She is taking on the role of the evil or fallen angel again, like she did earlier in the series. Very interesting, and a bit different from where I thought the writers were going with this. I like the new direction for Baltar's story.

    This comment really interests me. Does Baltar really have healing powers, or is it just appearing like he does? I compare the part of the episode with Baltar and the sick boy similar to the scene in 33 where the man who claimed to have evidence that Baltar was a traitor "coincidentally" gets killed when one of the colony ships gets left behind. At both times, the events revolve around Baltar's "faith" in the Cylon's one god.

    Along with "33," this also recalls "The Hand of God," where Baltar is asked to tell them where to fire their torpedos into the Cylon tillium refinery. He really has no idea, but Head Six convinces him to give himself over to God. Once he does, he points randomly at the layout of the refinery, and turns out to be correct. Are all these things a direct result of Baltar and his powers? Is he really the Hand of God, or is he just insanely lucky?

    :
    It is also very much linked to the burning question regarding the exact nature of Caprica Six's presence in Baltar's consciousness (and of course, Baltar's presence in her consciousness). I am really looking forward to this being answered in this, the final season.

    Head Six has said that she is an angel, sent to help Baltar. Whether this is the truth or not, remains to be seen, but I'm wondering whether or not this may have some kind of link to the Leobon that Kara saw as her Viper descended into the gas giant in "Maelstrom." In that episode, she realises, "You're not Leobon," to which he responds, "I never said I was." Are these two separate occurrences of the same phenomenon? For that matter, are Kara and Baltar somehow linked to Leobon and Six in the same way that Sharon, Six, Roslin and Hera are all linked by their dreams?

    As an aside, I love the little details that the show throws in. In this episode, Anders is a nugget, and is flying his first combat mission. He's out there in the heat of battle, talking to himself with his thumb on the transmit button. Then later, he's covering someone's back, and says, "I have...(he forgets the terms he is supposed to use)... TALLY!" It shows that he's still learning how to be a pilot. I also love how they use "Tally," the same way that fighter pilots use it to indicate they have eyes on the enemy.

    I also loved how he tried to fire on the raider, but his guns wouldn't work. Later, we find out that he, "...made a nugget mistake," by not arming his weapons. It then throws into doubt whether it was a genuine mistake, or Cylon programming.

    Coincidentally, if any Canadians here happen to have seen the show "Jetstream," about Canadian CF-18 fighter pilot training, one of the guys in that show made the exact same mistake as Anders by not arming his weapons during dogfight training.

    Edited on 04/05/2008 9:24am
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  • Avatar of LexxArc

    LexxArc

    [45]Apr 5, 2008
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    alllstarz wrote:
    Like i said before it confuses me that anders can do this.. considering Starbuck and Apollo always was in dogfights but did not have that ability so That could prove they are not the final five and same can be said with helo as he was shot at


    I think it's because he's aware of himself being a cyclon, possibly even accepting being one. This may have opened up certain abilities that have been dormant in the others. Looking at that cylon raider perhaps thinking "Do you know I'm a cylon?"
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  • Avatar of Idbeolderifiwas

    Idbeolderifiwas

    [46]Apr 5, 2008
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    rslade70 wrote:
    MichaudMR wrote:
    I kind of wonder why President Roslin went to ask the Number 6 being held in the brig about the Final Five, and not Athena? It seems to me she would be a more trusted source of information about the Cylons.


    Funny, I actually thought about that myself. Why not ask Athena about the 5, if she thought Kara was a cylon or anything else. It was Athena that told the Roslin that she could trust Six back when she helped her excape with her baby. But I would think that Athena is the more trusted since she can carry a weapon and have free roam where Six is in the Brig and chained to boot!


    I think going to 6 was the better option. She probably knows more about the goings on of the Cylons than Athena does, plus Athena couldn't tell that Chief and Anders were Cylons, and 6 said she could feel them.
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  • Avatar of mfirefly10

    mfirefly10

    [47]Apr 5, 2008
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    MichaudMR wrote:
    I kind of wonder why President Roslin went to ask the Number 6 being held in the brig about the Final Five, and not Athena? It seems to me she would be a more trusted source of information about the Cylons.

    This is the biggest problem I had with this episode. Adama trusts Athena. Roslin? Not so much...But you'd think ONE of them would go to her and at least ask about Kara. My only guess for that is that maybe RDM figured we'd all assume that Athena was asked and it just wasn't shown. Still, I think it was a mistake not to show SOMEONE asking her.

    Overall, I'd say the episode was pretty good. It ranks up there with Scattered. Both episodes were good season openers, but neither of them lived up to 33 or Occupation.

    Although I thought Tigh's vision was kinda cool, did anybody really believe he'd shot Adama in the first episode? I think not. I had the same problem with the ending. Yeah, it was cool to see Kara take out her guards, but does anyone really believe she's going to hurt Roslin? That's a pretty anti-climatic cliffhanger, if you ask me

    My favorite scenes were Kara's talk with Sam in the memorial hall and Kara's return to Galactica. Poor Sammy. Here he is telling Kara that he'll love her no matter what and not only does she say she would NOT love him in all his cylon-ness, but she hits him over the head. Poor Sam. He has a nice head As far as her return, I liked that all of the characters had different reactions. Of course, Lee and Sam were thrilled, but Adama was wary and Roslin wanted Kara thrown out the nearest airlock. Very much keeping with their characters, I think.

    I liked the Boomer references, too. First, Tyrol mentioned her and then she came up again in the final scene with Kara and Sam. Yay for Boomie! All of final 4 stuff was good, especially Tory's "Maybe something's changed" line. How creepy was that?

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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [48]Apr 5, 2008
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    Re the Final Five: Could the other Cylons have failed to recognize them before because they weren't yet self-aware? Did it take that meeting in the gym (in "Crossroads, Part 2") to set off the proximity beacon or whatever is telling Caprica Six that the Final Five are near? Athena didn't recognize any of them as Cylons when she spoke with Tyrol and Anders on the flight deck. Maybe there's something unique about Caprica Six because she's the only Cylon who has an imaginary friend ("Head" Baltar).

    Caprica Six was also present in the shared dream that Roslin and Athena had in the opera house in "Crossroads, Part 2." I don't remember any other Cylons being able to enter shared dreams like this. Maybe Caprica Six is as unique among the Cylons as Baltar is among the humans (assuming he is human, which I think he is).

    ***

    I too laughed out loud when Baltar was shown holding hands with Head Six and the other woman thought he was praying. I didn't interpret it as a mockery of Jesus or a Jesus figure but more of a mockery of Baltar's followers who misinterpret Baltar's acts and gestures. However, there's no denying that something miraculous happened with the young boy. There is also no denying that Baltar truly did show a selfless and compassionate side in his willingness to die for another.

    Ronald Moore has shown himself to be respectful of religion and religious beliefs in the past, particularly through the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine series. The mysticism and spiritual world were depicted as real on that show, not as the products of imagination or superstition from some of the characters. Likewise, many of the religious elements in BSG have been shown to exist in the reality of the BSG universe. As pointed out below, Baltar's expressions of faith have had real-life manifestations: the healing of the young boy, Baltar's correct identification of the Cylon defenses in "The Hand of God," the rehabilitation of his reputation after being accused of treason by Shelley Godfrey in "Six Degrees of Separation."

    This knowledge makes me more comfortable about the Christ-like depiction of Baltar, along with the commanding presence of Number Six in all of those scenes. Sometimes it is Number Six who appears to be the "herald of the apocalypse" and the "harbinger of death." At the same time, Caprica Six is like the good version of Number Six. This storyline has a lot of potential depth to it, and holds much promise for development throughout this season.
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  • Avatar of Sanifus

    Sanifus

    [49]Apr 5, 2008
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    A fantastic episode, Season 3 left a bitter-sweet taste in my viewing mouth as it had some amazing episodes and some which really were not very good at all. I'm very pleased that Season 4 has started off with at the same standard that was shown with the final few episodes of S3 and hasn't slipped back. Looking forward to more.
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  • Avatar of Kalle-90210

    Kalle-90210

    [50]Apr 5, 2008
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    The Season start of BSG4 was well made. It did not bring as much BSG-lore as i had hoped. But it did bring me back to my love for BSG.

    In future episodes i do hope they will go more into the lore of BSG. The BSG-makers ofcourse have to explain the 13th colony and so on. But i also hope and expect they will go into the great question: WHY! Why do the Cylons hunt humans. Why are there 12 models of Cylons. Why do Humans believe in 12 Gods. Why do Cylons believe in one God!

    These are questions im sure will be answered in the rest of the Series. But here is a further theory on the further BSG-lore: we where told that there was 12 colonies, and that the 13th tribe was a myth. But then the 13th tribes was a reality! The why not 13 Gods or 13 cylons? Maybe the Cylons are the Gods! And that the 13th Cylon is the Imperious Leader, and maybe the leader of the Gods: Zeus! That could be a cool twist.

    And who are the God(s) then? Are they Gods or are they just an ancient and advanced race of Aliens, who seem as Gods to simple humans and cylons. Like what Glen Larson did in the original BSG.

    When the Galactica crew followed the scriptures they found Kobol, a map to earth, signs of the 13th tribe and the eye of Jupiter. If they could do all this by following the scriptures, if all this was true, then why are the Gods in BSG not true? That could be a cool twist.

    At any rate i really hope that we will get answers in the end of the series. The first episode delivered what we could expect, but not much more. It did bring a very cool story, and brought me back rambling about BSG again. So: IT´S BACK!!

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  • Avatar of MistaC87

    MistaC87

    [51]Apr 5, 2008
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    that was the best fraking hour of television I have EVER seen.
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  • Avatar of sting_ogre

    sting_ogre

    [52]Apr 5, 2008
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    i thought it was a great episode and i liked the bit where baltar looks like he is praying. hilarious
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  • Avatar of Bluedusk09

    Bluedusk09

    [53]Apr 5, 2008
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    Anybody starting to suspect that President Rosalin might be the 5th Cylon?
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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [54]Apr 5, 2008
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    Bluedusk09 wrote:
    Anybody starting to suspect that President Rosalin might be the 5th Cylon?

    She's a suspect, but really EVERYONE is a suspect. We'll know when we know.

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  • Avatar of Daxx00004

    Daxx00004

    [55]Apr 5, 2008
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    Bluedusk09 wrote:
    Anybody starting to suspect that President Rosalin might be the 5th Cylon?

    The only person I am pretty sure is not a cylon is Starbuck. I am thinking Lee is the 5th after that conversation with Adama about still loving his brother if he was a cylon. Although the greatest irony of all would be to make Adama himself a cylon.

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  • Avatar of oldsage

    oldsage

    [56]Apr 5, 2008
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    One thing I am curious about is why the fleet didn't jump to safety when the base stars appeared? I guess I'll have to watch the end of season 3 again in case I have missed/forgot something. Hasn't standard practice been to jump the fleet to a safe location upon a Cylon attack?

    600 souls lost is devastating.

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  • Avatar of Idbeolderifiwas

    Idbeolderifiwas

    [57]Apr 5, 2008
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    oldsage wrote:

    One thing I am curious about is why the fleet didn't jump to safety when the base stars appeared? I guess I'll have to watch the end of season 3 again in case I have missed/forgot something. Hasn't standard practice been to jump the fleet to a safe location upon a Cylon attack?

    600 souls lost is devastating.



    It was because all of the ships powered down when they jumped into the nebula. It takes time for the FTL's to spool up (20 minutes or so) so they were stranded until they were ready to jump.
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    Wholesome1

    [58]Apr 5, 2008
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    i think they made a new starbuck from the ovaries they stole before on new caprica.

    i'm new!

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    clos_vf

    [59]Apr 5, 2008
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    Daxx00004 wrote:

    Bluedusk09 wrote:
    Anybody starting to suspect that President Rosalin might be the 5th Cylon?

    The only person I am pretty sure is not a cylon is Starbuck. I am thinking Lee is the 5th after that conversation with Adama about still loving his brother if he was a cylon. Although the greatest irony of all would be to make Adama himself a cylon.



    Hmmm/// maybe Rosalin is the 5th Cylon it got me thinking. (Yeah still new here but after reading the 10 minute re-caps and watching the season finale and premiere)

    She became president after the other politicians died. What if she has something that can hide her Cylon presence. Shes been making them jump farther away.... maybe she is taking everyone to there deaths. What if Kara could be right knowing where earth is?
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    tribalchic

    [60]Apr 5, 2008
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    this was a great way to start off the final season.

    this was also the first time i've ever watched an episode broadcast in HD which made that opening battle all the more beautiful.

    The characters in my oppinion regained all that depth that they lost during the middle of season3 expecially Kara (i was actually happy when they killed her last year because her character was becoming a love triangle pain)and Baltar, who its seems like they are actually giving him a spine this season.That scene with him walking down the corridor surrounded by his followers on each side was a direct comparison to one of jesus famous arrivals (i forget which one since my sunday school memory is a little rusty)i think its very clear thats its where they are taking the story this year just look at the promo picture thats supposed to resemble "the Last Supper" and it will be interesting how the more atheistic fanbase will react to that side of the show.BSG has allways taken big risks with their stories and this season is no different.

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