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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion-"He That Believeth In Me" (U.S. air date 4/4/08) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of clos_vf

    clos_vf

    [81]Apr 6, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    t3uv wrote:
    BTW, still about Sam, I think I heard during the battle scene that his callsign was "Longshot". Can anyone confirm?
    I'll have to look into that. I recorded the episode on my DVR so I can check it out later on Saturday (afternoon).
    Yes, Seelix referred to him as Longshot. He responded with the name of Longshot in return. (I verified this with the closed captioning.) I added an interesting possible allusion to the episode guide. There is a Marvel Comics character by the name of Longshot. The character's background is intriguing in light of the similarity to Anders. The Marvel character was artificially created by genetic engineers on another world. Longshot was a slave who helped to rise up against the slave masters. He lost his memories during his escape to Earth where he eventually joined The X-Men for a brief period. There are far too many similarities for this to be random coincidence. Anders is a Final Five Cylon so he is genetically engineered in some way. He also has amnesia of some sort because he does not remember his real creation or his real origins. He is trying to escape to Earth, just like the Marvel Comics character. However, I don't think Anders will be joining The X-Men anytime soon. (I don't read comics myself. I looked up Longshot on Google in the hopes that I'd find something interesting. I think I did.)
    I am a big fan of the X-Men comic. Collect it and read it still. Longshot first appeared in Uncanny X-Men Annual 12.
    Another X-Men bit kinda is... Kara may be like the Phoenix (aka Jean Grey) she died plenty of times in the book but came back from the ashes like a real phoenix. KAra may have possibly died and returned from the ashes because of the "prophecy" that she has a role to play in the end of the series.
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  • Avatar of t3uv

    t3uv

    [82]Apr 6, 2008
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    clos_vf wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    123home123 wrote:
    t3uv wrote:
    BTW, still about Sam, I think I heard during the battle scene that his callsign was "Longshot". Can anyone confirm?
    I'll have to look into that. I recorded the episode on my DVR so I can check it out later on Saturday (afternoon).
    Yes, Seelix referred to him as Longshot. He responded with the name of Longshot in return. (I verified this with the closed captioning.) I added an interesting possible allusion to the episode guide. There is a Marvel Comics character by the name of Longshot. The character's background is intriguing in light of the similarity to Anders. The Marvel character was artificially created by genetic engineers on another world. Longshot was a slave who helped to rise up against the slave masters. He lost his memories during his escape to Earth where he eventually joined The X-Men for a brief period. There are far too many similarities for this to be random coincidence. Anders is a Final Five Cylon so he is genetically engineered in some way. He also has amnesia of some sort because he does not remember his real creation or his real origins. He is trying to escape to Earth, just like the Marvel Comics character. However, I don't think Anders will be joining The X-Men anytime soon. (I don't read comics myself. I looked up Longshot on Google in the hopes that I'd find something interesting. I think I did.)
    I am a big fan of the X-Men comic. Collect it and read it still. Longshot first appeared in Uncanny X-Men Annual 12.
    Another X-Men bit kinda is... Kara may be like the Phoenix (aka Jean Grey) she died plenty of times in the book but came back from the ashes like a real phoenix. KAra may have possibly died and returned from the ashes because of the "prophecy" that she has a role to play in the end of the series.


    Interesting. Thanks for the confirmation!
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  • Avatar of jdpneto

    jdpneto

    [83]Apr 6, 2008
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    HUGE SPOILER

    If you want to read do so at your own risk by selecting the following lines.

    Ronald d Moore stated that there is one empty sit in the "last supper" picture for the last cylon. So obviously it's none of those.

    Edited on 04/06/2008 3:50pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [84]Apr 6, 2008
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    That was absolutely amazing. I missed BSG so much. I loved when she landed and everyone was looking at her weirdly and Lee just comes barreling in and crushes her into a hug. It was pretty cute. I also felt so sorry for Anders when he told her that he would still love her if she was a cylon, and she told him that she would put a bullet through his head. Contrasting with that was the amazing Adama/Lee scene where Lee says that if Zak showed up as a cylon, he would still love him, and see him as his brother. I think that out of everyone he probably trusts Kara the most. Sam can't exactly completely trust her with the whole "If I found out you were a cylon, I'd shoot you" thing looming over his head. The fight scene with the retinal scan was amazingly done, and as someone else mentioned, they really are taking the gloves off, destroying the ship in the teaser. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a ship has been lost since the Olympic Carrier. And the breaking off of the attack coupled with Tory's comment that "Maybe things have changed" and with Caprica's comment about being programmed not to think of the final five, it makes me think that the final five are really in control. I think that it detected Anders and he pretty much told it "We're here now, and we'll do our jobs. You can leave now"

    Tigh shooting Adama made me jump for a second, but then I realized that the whole "I did it boss, I found Earth" line hadn't happened yet.

    As to final cylon speculation. I don't think it's Kara. She has been told that she has a special destiny, by both cylons and humans. This suggests that she is something different from everyone else. Maybe she is a god? Who knows. The hybrid's speech from Razor also makes me think that she isn't a cylon. On to Roslin and Adama. I don't think either of them is a cylon. Both of their second in commands, I guess you could call them, are cylons. I don't think it makes sense to have such a high profile figure as a cylon. It's a lot easier to be inconspicuous when you can hide behind the final authority. They just seem too obvious. Especially with Roslin's reaction when they jump into the nebula. That could be explained by the cylon blood in her system, but I think it's a bit too heavyhanded to be anything more than a red herring. As for Lee, I don't know, I just think it would feel contrived to make him the final cylon. Plus the fact that Adama is his father, and he has an established childhood. So that, for me, eliminates all the main candidates. Since the final cylon is supposed to be a big reveal, it has to be someone that's been around since the beginning. Personally, I am thinking it will be female, just because they are machines, and it makes sense for them to have equal numbers of males and females. Then again, the producers had no idea who all the cylons were when they started the show, so I'm not set in stone on the female thing. But characters that have always been around? Zarek? - he was held in detention during New Caprica, Three could have done something that she felt remorse for during that time, and also, he wasn't on the Galactica in the finale so we wouldn't have seen his reaction. Dee? - not really much reason for this, but she has been around forever. Gaeta? - basically the same as Dee. Billy? - once again, has that same quality that Lee has; it would I think undermine his character to make him a cylon, although it might be worth it to see him again. In the extended version of Razor, something is said about the fifth "clawing for redemption" Baltar is the one that first comes to mind, but I have strong feelings that oppose that. I don't think its Baltar. Like Kara, he has his own path. Boxey? That might be interesting...or one of the other kids Boomer saved? Or maybe Cammy, the kid that Roslin talked to in the miniseries? (she always creeped me out, so I would be overly amused if she was a cylon) I'm suggesting kids, since its something no one is looking for. Racetrack, Hot Dog, Seelix, Figurski, etc? - none of them seem like big enough reveals. Kendra? - it seems like she wasn't around long enough. It seems like her being a cylon would be too predictable. Elosha? - that could be interesting.

    Someone earlier was talking about cylons replacing actual humans, and it has merit. Because it looks like the human form cylons were not perfected before the first cylon war, so how could Tigh, as a cylon have fought in it. Maybe the final five were all humans originally? Or maybe they were just developed earlier, and they actually developped the seven. Although the numbering doesn't make sense in this case, since you would think the final five's numbers would all be grouped together, but they can't be since we know enough of the seven's numbers to see that in the 1-12 spectrum, there aren't ever five unknown numbers in a row (we have 3,5,6,8 identified)

    As to the Baltar storyline, that has potential to be interesting. Six is an angel from god, and it was amazing when she manipulated him into looking like he was praying.
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  • Avatar of pgsuperfan

    pgsuperfan

    [85]Apr 6, 2008
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    Just started watching the show love it
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  • Avatar of lisagraham

    lisagraham

    [86]Apr 6, 2008
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    jdpneto wrote:

    HUGE SPOILER

    Where did this RDM say this? Websit, Podcast? My curiosoty is killing me =)

    I have long thought that it is NOT Kara, Roslin or either Adama, but I did think it might be Helo... Hera's daddy seemed a likely choice for D'Anna's reverence when she saw his face in the Temple...

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  • Avatar of Idbeolderifiwas

    Idbeolderifiwas

    [87]Apr 6, 2008
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    lisagraham wrote:
    jdpneto wrote:

    HUGE SPOILER

    Where did this RDM say this? Websit, Podcast? My curiosoty is killing me =)

    I have long thought that it is NOT Kara, Roslin or either Adama, but I did think it might be Helo... Hera's daddy seemed a likely choice for D'Anna's reverence when she saw his face in the Temple...



    Cylons still have no way of reproducing with each other though, so it's impossible. I think it's really pretty well pointless to guess who is the final Cylon, because we wont figure it out. There are too many possibilities, the list is endless and there is no way to know for sure until it is shown on screen.
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  • Avatar of Myrddin19

    Myrddin19

    [88]Apr 6, 2008
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    123home123 wrote:
    Interesting point below that Baltar prayed for the young boy Derrick out of self-loathing and not compassion. There seems to be a combination of the two. Baltar is clearly weary of his tumultuous life but I still think compassion was part of the motivation for his long prayer to God. If he were only acting out of self-pity and depression, he would have made that prayer immediately after Romo Lampkin and Lee abandoned him (after the trial was over). He also seemed enthusiastic and energetic enough to take advantage of the opportunity that Tracey offered him. ("Can you feel God's presence?") Those two scenes show that he wasn't entirely suicidal and distraught. Granted, he's a complex person so I'm sure we'll see more inconsistencies in his actions next week. (I mean inconsistencies in Baltar's motivations and actions, not the writing of the character. Baltar acts inconsistently the way many, if not all, real people do, which makes him that much more realistic as a flawed human figure.)

    Very well thought out, I wouldn't explain it better myself. Baltar is in fact my favourite character since the very beginning.

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  • Avatar of Tredrick

    Tredrick

    [89]Apr 6, 2008
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    Boxey shall be the final Cylon. Poor kid just disappeared.

    Also, my money is that the Cylon God is an equivalent to Count Iblis from the first BSG. Also, Kara's pristine white ship looks an awful lot like the way all clothes/ships looked pure white after encountering the beings of light from the first series as well.

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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [90]Apr 6, 2008
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    hazelnut144 wrote:
    The fight scene with the retinal scan was amazingly done, and as someone else mentioned, they really are taking the gloves off, destroying the ship in the teaser. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a ship has been lost since the Olympic Carrier.

    Okay, I'll correct you... The luxury resort ship Cloud Nine was destroyed by a nuclear bomb that Baltar unwittingly gave over to a Six model (Gina?). This was in the episode Lay Down Your Burdens Part 2.

    Also, the Adriatic and the Carina were lost during the episode The Passage, because they got lost in the radiation cloud and all the crew on board died of radiation poisoning. Since the passengers had all disembarked to Galactica prior to entering the stellar cloud, only the crew members of those ships were killed. However, the Adriatic had weapons, so with its loss the fleet lost another defensive vessel.

    That actually reminds me... During the battle at the beginning of this episode, I could have sworn I saw Cloud Nine in the fleet at one point where one of the Vipers is tailing a Cylon Raider as they fly over what looks like the Cloud Nine. Was this a mistake, or was there another ship that looked similar to the Cloud Nine? It had those huge glass domes on top that looked like a greenhouse.

    Edited on 04/06/2008 9:26pm
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  • Avatar of InfamousJR

    InfamousJR

    [91]Apr 6, 2008
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    Idbeolderifiwas wrote:
    lisagraham wrote:
    jdpneto wrote:

    HUGE SPOILER

    Where did this RDM say this? Websit, Podcast? My curiosoty is killing me =)

    I have long thought that it is NOT Kara, Roslin or either Adama, but I did think it might be Helo... Hera's daddy seemed a likely choice for D'Anna's reverence when she saw his face in the Temple...

    Cylons still have no way of reproducing with each other though, so it's impossible. I think it's really pretty well pointless to guess who is the final Cylon, because we wont figure it out. There are too many possibilities, the list is endless and there is no way to know for sure until it is shown on screen.

    Eleven Cylons now have been revealed, so who is the 12th and final Cylon? Contrary to fan speculation, Moore swears it isn't one of the show's primary humans. Not Starbuck or President Roslin. Not Admiral Adama (Edward James Olmos) or his son, Lee (Jamie Bamber). Or even the ever-dubious, Cylon-shagging Gaius Baltar (James Callis). "Even if you guess correctly, it's still just a guess," Moore says. "There's no way anyone can figure it out without knowing exactly where we're going with the final season."

    You're right. It really is pointless to guess unless you can foresee where the entire story is going. What's more interesting to me is the time frame issue RDM has talked about...

    ""We've never revealed our time frame, and that's been one of the key questions from the very beginning," Moore says. "What is the connection between us and the humans of BSG?"

    Something is up with time going forward backward sideways or something. Also given what the Hybrid stated in Razor...time definitely has something to do with the story.

    The episode was amazing. One quick question...did anyone notice that the disease the boy had viral encephalitis was very similar to the virus that almost killed the entire Cylon race (3x07) Lymphocytic encephalitis ? Is this just a coincidence?

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  • Avatar of crito84

    crito84

    [92]Apr 6, 2008
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    I agree, there are too many possibilities to speculate since, at this point, any one could be a cylon. However, I don't think it is Roslin or Adama for the same reason as someone else stated, Both of their second-in-commands are cylons so they are poised. What's the point in having them as cylons if they make the number one a cylon anyway.

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  • Avatar of crito84

    crito84

    [93]Apr 6, 2008
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    jdpneto wrote:

    HUGE SPOILER

    If this is true, there is an obvious spot open. Do you think there is a connection between the characters on either side of the space or is it just a random open space at the table? I can't think of a connection but it's possible that there is one.

    There I go, not taking my own advice about not speculating. It's just so hard not to when an idea pops into my head.

    Edited on 04/06/2008 10:35pm
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  • Avatar of InfamousJR

    InfamousJR

    [94]Apr 7, 2008
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    crito84 wrote:
    jdpneto wrote:

    HUGE SPOILER

    If this is true, there is an obvious spot open. Do you think there is a connection between the characters on either side of the space or is it just a random open space at the table? I can't think of a connection but it's possible that there is one.

    There I go, not taking my own advice about not speculating. It's just so hard not to when an idea pops into my head.

    Yes, RDM already stated the open spot is for the final cyclon. Here is detailed analysis of the painting with RDM commentary on it. Click on the "Grail" and it talks about the final cylcon missing.

    I really found what he had to say about Natalie interesting, "She assumes a leadership position for a group of Cylons [that have] a separate agenda from the rest of them."

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  • Avatar of lisagraham

    lisagraham

    [95]Apr 7, 2008
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    InfamousJR wrote:
    crito84 wrote:
    jdpneto wrote:

    HUGE SPOILER

    If this is true, there is an obvious spot open. Do you think there is a connection between the characters on either side of the space or is it just a random open space at the table? I can't think of a connection but it's possible that there is one.

    There I go, not taking my own advice about not speculating. It's just so hard not to when an idea pops into my head.

    Yes, RDM already stated the open spot is for the final cyclon. Here is detailed analysis of the painting with RDM commentary on it. Click on the "Grail" and it talks about the final cylcon missing.

    I really found what he had to say about Natalie interesting, "She assumes a leadership position for a group of Cylons [that have] a separate agenda from the rest of them."

    OMG - Thank You... Now can we get all the folks that think Roslin/Starbuck/Adama/Lee are the final cylon to click on #10 too...

    Thanks for the great link!!

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  • Avatar of clos_vf

    clos_vf

    [96]Apr 7, 2008
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    just saw the link checked it out and wow thats some good teaser info for the show!
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  • Avatar of Kondix

    Kondix

    [97]Apr 7, 2008
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    1. The child of the chief versus the child of Helo and Boomer:
    Chief is one of the final five, those dont have copies, those are not integrated with the rest of the seven models. Therefore those 5 have other characteristicas, from rumors we can assume that the final five also dont have other copies! So the child of Boomer and Helo IS special... it is yet the only biological evidence of multiplecopied Cylon models! Remember that those final 5 are most probably unique beeings! The final five ALSO dont react to those chemicals which made those Cylons sick at the end of the pilot.

    2. Al of this has happend before, and will happen again.
    The children of both... Cylons and Humans could become the final inhabitans of earth... As the Jesus role of Baltar would not be Jesus... Jesus would be a diffrent person 2000 years later... it would be simply the "happening again" thing.

    3. I guess the thing with Kara beeing a clone... they did put this theory up way to early in the show... I doubt therefore this is the right answer... surprising storytelling is going like this: As a question
    Give hints (lots of plausible false ones)
    Give the solution "by the way as if it was not important"
    And then reveal it as the final true answer.

    And I believe they will do it exactly that way... we could have the answer right under our noses and not evan know it yet.

    4. The god and the gods
    The human gods might be lesser gods which revolted against the one truly god (Zeus for example). The "In Baltars head"-Six has shown the ability of foresight earlier in the show. So, she could have foressen the fact, that the boy would get better naturally... or she is some servant or incarnation of the ONE GOD!

    5. Kara Vs. Roselyn
    It was stated before... Kara will lead humanity to its destruction... is it Cylon trick? Is the religous way of Roselyn the right way? Somehow Roselyn has come from liberal teacher to conservative (almost tyrant like) president. Somehow I believe the mix of both aproaches will be the solution... they will have to solve this thing together... or they both (not working together) will send humanity to destruction.

    There is sooo much more... love BSG for that!!
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  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [98]Apr 7, 2008
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    Kondix wrote:
    1. The child of the chief versus the child of Helo and Boomer:
    Chief is one of the final five, those dont have copies, those are not integrated with the rest of the seven models. Therefore those 5 have other characteristicas, from rumors we can assume that the final five also dont have other copies! So the child of Boomer and Helo IS special... it is yet the only biological evidence of multiplecopied Cylon models! Remember that those final 5 are most probably unique beeings! The final five ALSO dont react to those chemicals which made those Cylons sick at the end of the pilot.

    2. Al of this has happend before, and will happen again.
    The children of both... Cylons and Humans could become the final inhabitans of earth... As the Jesus role of Baltar would not be Jesus... Jesus would be a diffrent person 2000 years later... it would be simply the "happening again" thing.

    3. I guess the thing with Kara beeing a clone... they did put this theory up way to early in the show... I doubt therefore this is the right answer... surprising storytelling is going like this: As a question
    Give hints (lots of plausible false ones)
    Give the solution "by the way as if it was not important"
    And then reveal it as the final true answer.

    And I believe they will do it exactly that way... we could have the answer right under our noses and not evan know it yet.

    4. The god and the gods
    The human gods might be lesser gods which revolted against the one truly god (Zeus for example). The "In Baltars head"-Six has shown the ability of foresight earlier in the show. So, she could have foressen the fact, that the boy would get better naturally... or she is some servant or incarnation of the ONE GOD!

    5. Kara Vs. Roselyn
    It was stated before... Kara will lead humanity to its destruction... is it Cylon trick? Is the religous way of Roselyn the right way? Somehow Roselyn has come from liberal teacher to conservative (almost tyrant like) president. Somehow I believe the mix of both aproaches will be the solution... they will have to solve this thing together... or they both (not working together) will send humanity to destruction.

    There is sooo much more... love BSG for that!!


    No, its not Zeus because of what the oracle said to D'Anna. Its another entity. the deleted of S1 says that one of the gods (which we can assume is the same one with five priests and cant be named) wished to be raised higher than the rest and started the conflict on Kobol. This is most probably the Cylon god.
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    august29

    [99]Apr 7, 2008
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    Just saw the show, First furious minutes before the proper intro gave me goosebumps galore!!!
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    mynameisrodney

    [100]Apr 7, 2008
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    First up, fantastic episode. That first battle was amazing. Does the show have more money this year or did all that cgi just eat up the budget of a few other episodes?

    I seem to have interpreted the interaction between Anders and the raider differently to everyone else on here. To me it appeared that the raider did something to Anders rather than the other way around. This fits with Tory saying "maybe something's changed." I think Anders has now been switched on. This would make the attack a success for the cylons and so they ended it.

    The cylons have a large enough force that they can take out the whole human race quite easily. I think they want to keep the humans alive, but in a manageable number, until they lead them to Earth. The final five are in influential roles to make sure of the success of this plan.

    Edited on 04/07/2008 3:23am
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