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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion-"He That Believeth In Me" (U.S. air date 4/4/08) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [121]Apr 7, 2008
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    michaelalan wrote:

    I think it was in the mini series but one of the raiders scanned either Apollo or Strabuck, I forget which, but it was masked as that scan is what caused the vipers to shut down on the newer models. Maybe that's not it at all, maybe that raider recognized Apollo/Starbuck for what they he/she was, cyclon.

    But, I also think that Bill Adama could be the final Cyclon and that the Razor series was a red herring. Instead of him being the hero of his little memory, he was actually captured and cloned or reprogrammed. If you remember he also has the power to project like the other cyclons (well, in that case, Baltar too).

    First off, RDM confirmed in the comments about the Last Supper photo that the Final Cylon is someone NOT at the table, so it CANNOT be Adama. Second, the only time in which you can assume Adama was projecting was in his thoughts about his wife. Those scenes were clearly not intended as projections and were, instead, imaginings of what his wife would tell him if she were still here with him. Basically they were fantasies.

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  • Avatar of august29

    august29

    [122]Apr 8, 2008
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    So RDM said in a podcast clip that the note was left by Baltar. Forgive me for saying this, but I think, RDM might be trying to deflect something to keep the suspense longer.

    Nobody saw who left the note. I don't think baltar can just waltz into the officers official quarters regardless of his position at that momment. I mean. "Its Adama's official quarters." Lets see if anyone can just waltz into the office of any general at the pentagon. Can we honestly think baltar can just waltz in say, hey adama's not here, hmmm.. I know, the genius in me will leave a post it note to Adama citing the existence of the 12 models?

    Damn, perhaps I'm thinking its Adama because his face is up at the banner along with the other newly discovered human cylons. Where did tv.com get the group shot anyway? With him, that makes 5.

    There are also tidbits on the upcoming spin off Caprica that states that the Adama's family is in a race to create the perfect cylons.

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  • Avatar of august29

    august29

    [123]Apr 8, 2008
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    food for thought...

    btw, In the end, what if its Adama alright and Moore just smiles and confess that denying it was Adama was just a show to keep BSG fans guessing? ^_^ After all, If I'm the writer, creator, its my priviledge to do what to whom whenever I want. And at the same time I can keep saying something else to the fans of my work just for the fun of it. After all, spoiling and confirming its Adama might hurt the suspense of the show which in turn might hurt ratings ^_^

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  • Avatar of ebv001

    ebv001

    [124]Apr 8, 2008
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    Why don't more people talk about the guy in the tub as the final model? As I recall, in Razor, when the Galactica boarding party land on the Cylon ship, they do not run into any human model Cylons, which lives with the theory of the 7 models not knowing the final five.
    Also, I think its very clear that the 7 cannot "feel", even though Six claims she can, the final 5. If she could feel that the other models are near, how do you explain torturing Tigh during the occupation of New Caprica and not being able to detect he was a human model. Seems like Caprica Six is trying to BullS&!% her way out of the brig.
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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [125]Apr 8, 2008
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    ebv001 wrote:
    Why don't more people talk about the guy in the tub as the final model? As I recall, in Razor, when the Galactica boarding party land on the Cylon ship, they do not run into any human model Cylons, which lives with the theory of the 7 models not knowing the final five.
    Also, I think its very clear that the 7 cannot "feel", even though Six claims she can, the final 5. If she could feel that the other models are near, how do you explain torturing Tigh during the occupation of New Caprica and not being able to detect he was a human model. Seems like Caprica Six is trying to BullS&!% her way out of the brig.


    I think it has to do with the Final Five being "awakened". There's clearly no physical switch being flipped; the sudden awareness seems to be done on some ethereal level and seems to now be giving off some kind of aura. I mean, the four don't have any real proof, but "just know" they're Cylons. As for the Hybrid, "the guy in the tub", I believe it primiary has to do with the fact that he's a Hybrid like the one we see on the other basestars, which are considered "Model 0". Not to mention it seems in line with why Kendra Shaw is a weak candidate: a recent one-shot character. It has to be a fairly well established character.

    mamckinney wrote:
    Where can I begin? Lose the 'tude dude! While I support the right of people to say what they want, that doesn't mean that they should. From the very outset, you start off in a highly confrontational mindset. Shall I demonstrate? "Everyone seems to have a collective orgasm...", "Get over it and move on.", "I should also be a douche and correct you..." Be a better citizen next time and find a better way to say things.


    I thought of at least a dozen ways to respond to this, but came to this: you've greatly misintrepred me. My attempt to execute a sense of wit may be with a great tone of failure, but I'm certainly not being confrontational because it's not in my character to have a pissing match with anyone on the internets. That's all I'm going to say because I don't want in anyway to be responsibile for derailing this thread.
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  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [126]Apr 8, 2008
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    ebv001 wrote:
    Why don't more people talk about the guy in the tub as the final model? As I recall, in Razor, when the Galactica boarding party land on the Cylon ship, they do not run into any human model Cylons, which lives with the theory of the 7 models not knowing the final five.
    Also, I think its very clear that the 7 cannot "feel", even though Six claims she can, the final 5. If she could feel that the other models are near, how do you explain torturing Tigh during the occupation of New Caprica and not being able to detect he was a human model. Seems like Caprica Six is trying to BullS&!% her way out of the brig.


    Because he's a hybrid, in fact the first one. They arent amoung the humanoid cylons. Their more the precursors (not including final five considering 4000 year history)
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  • Avatar of ElJorro

    ElJorro

    [127]Apr 8, 2008
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    The truth is...I do not think anybody really knows who the final cylon is. It could in fact be anyone. I do not think its Baltar, Adama, or Roslin. (OH! I just noticed the new header thing for the shows title "(could someone please tell me how they do those!) and its very cool). Anyway, I dont think Starbucks a Cylon but the truth is I really do not know, she could be. I can not believe they made Tigh a Cylon. But I think one of the themes of this season will be choice and destiny. The cylons became sentient beings which means they are capable of choice. The final five may be cylons, but I think some of them will choose to reject there programming and take control of their own destinies. We shall see.

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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [128]Apr 8, 2008
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    copygeek wrote:

    hazelnut144 wrote:
    The fight scene with the retinal scan was amazingly done, and as someone else mentioned, they really are taking the gloves off, destroying the ship in the teaser. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a ship has been lost since the Olympic Carrier.

    Okay, I'll correct you... The luxury resort ship Cloud Nine was destroyed by a nuclear bomb that Baltar unwittingly gave over to a Six model (Gina?). This was in the episode Lay Down Your Burdens Part 2.

    Also, the Adriatic and the Carina were lost during the episode The Passage, because they got lost in the radiation cloud and all the crew on board died of radiation poisoning. Since the passengers had all disembarked to Galactica prior to entering the stellar cloud, only the crew members of those ships were killed. However, the Adriatic had weapons, so with its loss the fleet lost another defensive vessel.

    That actually reminds me... During the battle at the beginning of this episode, I could have sworn I saw Cloud Nine in the fleet at one point where one of the Vipers is tailing a Cylon Raider as they fly over what looks like the Cloud Nine. Was this a mistake, or was there another ship that looked similar to the Cloud Nine? It had those huge glass domes on top that looked like a greenhouse.



    Yeah I realized that after I wrote it. Thank you for correcting me. So scratch that point

    mamckinney wrote:
    hazelnut144 wrote:
    As for Lee, I don't know, I just think it would feel contrived to make him the final cylon. Plus the fact that Adama is his father, and he has an established childhood. So that, for me, eliminates all the main candidates. Since the final cylon is supposed to be a big reveal, it has to be someone that's been around since the beginning.


    If you are referring to my speculation for the final cylon, I never said Lee. I said William Adama, his father (A.K.A. Admiral Adama). And there is plenty of evidence to support that speculation. If he indeed is a cylon, it has already been established that it is possible for humans and cylons to produce a human-cylon hybrid. Athena and Helo were the first to have one during the series, and Chief Tyrol and Cally had the second. Remember Tyrol was revealed as a cylon at the end of season 3.


    I'm not sure who's speculation that I was specifically referring to. I believe I was just going through the common candidates. And I also gave reasons earlier in my post about my thoughts of why Adama wasn't the final cylon either. Also of all, because Hera was such a big deal, I got the feeling that there hadn't been a successful human/cylon child before. And even if Lee was an unknown, I don't think it would work with his character. He is one of the few people in the show that doesn't seem to have some kind of "special destiny" and I think that is an essential part of his character. And add to that, that they are trying to launch "Caprica" which is going to be the backstory of the Adama family, so unless the Adama family created the first skin job and passed him off as their son, I don't see it happening. But then again, who knows. I could be completely wrong.

    august29 wrote:

    So RDM said in a podcast clip that the note was left by Baltar. Forgive me for saying this, but I think, RDM might be trying to deflect something to keep the suspense longer.

    Nobody saw who left the note. I don't think baltar can just waltz into the officers official quarters regardless of his position at that momment. I mean. "Its Adama's official quarters." Lets see if anyone can just waltz into the office of any general at the pentagon. Can we honestly think baltar can just waltz in say, hey adama's not here, hmmm.. I know, the genius in me will leave a post it note to Adama citing the existence of the 12 models?

    Damn, perhaps I'm thinking its Adama because his face is up at the banner along with the other newly discovered human cylons. Where did tv.com get the group shot anyway? With him, that makes 5.

    There are also tidbits on the upcoming spin off Caprica that states that the Adama's family is in a race to create the perfect cylons.


    Ron D Moore did say this in his podcast. In the original cut, I believe it was supposed to be right after the hallways scene in which six is telling Baltar that there are cylons among the fleet. People were then supposed to assume that Baltar had left the note, but in the final cut of the episode, it didn't exactly play out like that.
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  • Avatar of ebony_kunoichi

    ebony_kunoichi

    [129]Apr 8, 2008
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    Sorry to change the subject, but is it just me or is Baltar the biggest player in the history of Sci-fi?!!? Kirk has nothing on him. Baltar, no matter where he goes he is always surrounded by hot women. I think the writers really enjoy putting that man in those crazy situations.
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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [130]Apr 8, 2008
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    Okay firstly BSG best show on TV by far, first post so be nice...

    Adama's Will or Lee cannot be the final Cylon, too much back story in regards to them, would leave huge holes in the stories continuity.

    They have enough problems with that issue when they made Ty a toaster. As he was involved in the first Cylon War, doesn't match up with the time line given..(1st Cylon war lasting many years, no human model's we know of...50 years of silence suddenly they reappear with SIX first human model seen). In order for the time-line to be consistent that would mean that there was at least one,

    human model around. Which would make it Ty, you would think his postion in the Cylon Hierarchy would be alot more prominent than what it is. As he would be the first human model. So as much as i like the fact that Ty is a Cylon, it doesn't really make sense..unless someone wants to explain it to me.

    Roselin is a good guess, with her visions and leadership role..(referring to 3's reaction when seeing the final 5). Roselin is kinda taking on a Moses type role leading her people out of Exodus. it would make SENSE for her to be the final 5..mainly because yet again we can assume the final Cylon is different from all the rest, as She/He didn't come when called by the music. It is either her or someone that is not a HUGE part in the story flow. Roselin (Moses Old Testament), Baltar (Jesus New Testament)??

    Starbuck is a different story, i have no idea where they are going with that, especially after Razor, but i can't wait to see what the writers have in store for her!!

    Any way these are my thoughts, and theories..let the hole punching begin

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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [131]Apr 8, 2008
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    It's not too far off Palpatine.

    Timeline

    4000 years ago - Humans and their gods lived on Kobol. Something went wrong to cause the exodous. One large group went off in a similar way to form the 12 colonies. The 13th colony went off to find Earth

    45 years ago - Humans in the 12 colonies had already created sentient machines to be their servants. They rebeled at this time. There were 2 wars and by this time an armastis was signed and the metal Cylons went on their merry way to find a planet of their own. A chunk of the galaxy was carved out for them alone. Humans and Cylons would not cross that line.

    5-45 years - Sometime in that period, the metal Cylons experimented with humans (wonder how they did that without crossing that line) and started creating the Hybrids first. We are to assume that they also created the 7 models that can ressurect.

    5 years ago - Some of the 7 models infiltrate the 12 human colonies to bring about their extinction. Launch the nukes which killed their worlds and caused the humans to flee

    Note what I'm leaving out. The final 5. We have no idea where they came from except we're told by the producers of the show that these 5 are distinctly different from the other 7. We know at least one of them (Tigh) has been around since the days of the first Cylon war.

    My thoughts have been that these 5 in one form or another have been around a LOT longer. Likely since the days of the Gods of Kobol.

    I also think that the number 6 that Baltar sees in his head, the Baltar that the Number 6 sees in her head, The Leoben that Kara saw in her head, the visions of President Rosalyn saw are all related. I'm thinking that her blood transfusion, Kara's experimentation on Caprica "infected" them so they now can get on this Cylon "mental-conciousness" highway. Number 6's blood was probably all over Baltar when the nukes went off, and this process somehow worked in reverse for Caprica-6 when she ressurected (The sowed the seeds for this when they introduced that encephilites disease a few episodes back) being infected doesn't make you a Cylon, just able to catch glimpses into their communications channel.

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of tomaszgadomski

    tomaszgadomski

    [132]Apr 8, 2008
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    Sorry for interrupting, but i didn't find a better place to post my question. Havebeen ratings for the new BSG episode released already?
    Edited on 04/08/2008 2:26pm
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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [133]Apr 8, 2008
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    I am curious about this as well, tried to find it, could not
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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [134]Apr 8, 2008
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    Season 4 premiere delivered more than 2.1 million total viewers, 19% increase over Jan 2007. No.1 prime-time program in Sci Fi Channels key 25-54 demo.

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    smoore3513

    [135]Apr 8, 2008
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    Since Ron Moore said no one in the last supper picture was the final cylon. Could Tom Zerek (Richard Hatch The orginal Apollo) be the final cylon. Just see if there would be any theories on this? It would be very ironic.

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  • Avatar of palpatine19

    palpatine19

    [136]Apr 8, 2008
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    Yes and somewhat disappointing, i want it to be a pivotal character, we havent seen much of him in the later episodes aside from warning Roselyn about Baltar. It would not explain why #3 apologizes to the 5th one either...i love this game, way better than who shot JR, and Mr.Burns..when has TV ever been this good??
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  • Avatar of crito84

    crito84

    [137]Apr 8, 2008
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    See, that's the thing that gives weight to a lot of speculations...who would Three apologize to? Who is either that important, or who was wronged so badly by the Cylons, or Three herself, that she feels the need to apologize? For some reason I have this feeling that it is going to be someone that had a strong role in the past, but not so much now. Someone who used to have a slight influence in the everyday goings-on of either the Galactica, or the President. It just seems like the writers and RDM will want the last to be someone completely unexpected. That's why I think looking at current characters or major characters is a mistake. Just like the four, the last will in a background role. I know Tigh isn't a background role, but he is second-in-command to Adama. He even admits that he never wanted a command after Adama was shot. Does that make sense?
    Edited on 04/08/2008 3:49pm
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    wedgeantilles54

    [138]Apr 8, 2008
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    we don't actually know which one of the final five that #3 appolgizes to, though there is some specualtion that it is Col tigh.
    its possible that for all we know the 5th of the final five while now active was not on board galactica when the fleet hit the nebula

    As of right now it is clear that the only character who knows who all of the final five is #3 but they have all been boxed, which means the knowledge of the final five has pretty much been sealed away by the cylons. It is possible baltar might have caught a quick glimpse but not enought to really recognize any of the final five

    prehaps the raider that scaned anders has something to with what is show in the preview for this weeks ep

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  • Avatar of august29

    august29

    [139]Apr 8, 2008
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    Ok. Lets say RDM was not playing the minds of his BSG fans and he's telling the truth with everything he said from his pod cast interview to his comments on the last supper pictorial.

    ok, I'm also going to ignore the banner of the four newly revealed cylons with the admiral and I'm going to take account what the othe fans wrote.

    Tom zarek seems to be a good choice but , at that temple, the last face was familiar to the cylon in which she immediately gave respect. No way zarek could be it then.

    The only other semi important character not shown on the last supper thingee is tacticals's Gaeta.

    He knows enough military software and computer hardware just like what Six was doing at Pegasus. He was into biogenetics before he joined up with the military, he then helps Baltar in developing a means on how to detect the human cylons (that is what i read WIKIPEDIA), he was also helpful to the resistance by passing along information. He told the truth who won the election and he was also the one who confirmed baltar signed the death warrant. With his Bio genetics background, he could also have the know how to trigger the minds of four and for them to meet up..

    hmmm.... if we move aside that last bit which is pure speculation, and base everything on the facts along with RDM's revelations...

    for somebody who seems to have a small role and position in the overall BSG storyboards thats a plenty key roles. He's important enough but not in a flashy way...plus the fact he's not included in the last supper pictorial

    could Gaeta be the final cylon?

    Edited on 04/08/2008 4:34pm
    Edited 5 total times.
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [140]Apr 8, 2008
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    august29 wrote:
    Tom zarek seems to be a good choice but , at that temple, the last face was familiar to the cylon in which she immediately gave respect. No way zarek could be it then.

    could Gaeta be the final cylon?

    Zarek could be a good possibility. Don't forget that he was Baltar's VP on New Caprica until the Cylons threw him in prison. And Zarek was supposed to be assassinated along with Roslin. That seems like a good enough reason for #3 to apologize to him.

    I also like your speculation about Gaeta. He could make for a great Cylon. Gaeta is probably my favorite supporting character on BSG.

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