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Discussion - "Maelstrom" (3/4/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of Platinumstorm

    Platinumstorm

    [41]Mar 4, 2007
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    Dizagaox wrote:
    Apparently a cylon raider flies off after her "death". Anyone confirm this?


    I can't confirm after she blew up, but when we have Apollo's view there is a raider in the top left of the screen that shoots through the clouds a few seconds before she blows up.
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  • Avatar of maniac_____king

    maniac_____king

    [42]Mar 4, 2007
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    i doubt the next episode will clear much.  it'll be dealing with next week's material (baltar).
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  • Avatar of dragondeathlord

    dragondeathlord

    [43]Mar 4, 2007
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    Number 6 vision revealed long ago to DR. Boltar. That They could copy a human mind neuron pattern to change a human in to a cylon. They just got rid of a cylon model it would make sense to copy a human Woman that was best of the best that they held  for six months.Since there trying to breed and blur the line between human and cylon this might work. And would it be starbuck or a copy with a old copy of her mind? Or  they might of put a chip in her head to update or download her and her madness  might of been  induced by the chip/cylon mind meld. 
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  • Avatar of demonhuntr

    demonhuntr

    [44]Mar 4, 2007
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    It would be a smart move, to take her out of the credits til next season, It will keep many guessing. But it would be best to leave the final 5 cylons non-stars. Unless maybe Ty. That would put him over the edge. But Starbuck should remain the damaged one she is. Its what gives her edge and gives her strength. Maybe the cylons have her captured, or some kind of FTL drive malfunction that sends her away for awhile and they start tieing the previous battlestar heavenly being contact just like the old starbuck encountered....
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  • Avatar of gcswift2

    gcswift2

    [45]Mar 4, 2007
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    Again they're late with the podcast. This is one of those episodes where I REALLY want commentary. Ever since they went to sundays they've been late with the commentary; and most of the time its like learning whats in the sausage, but this is an episode in which I would think they would've felt a need to explain their thinking. Where's the FRAKKING PODCAST???
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [46]Mar 4, 2007
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    Could the story have been as straightforward as Moore and Eick have been leading us to believe? They have been hinting this entire year that a member of the main cast would not appear in the final 3 episodes of the season. Now we know that they were talking about Katee Sackhoff. But just having her die doesn't seem to fit with the talk about her destiny.

    Leoben, her mother and the oracle all spoke about her special destiny. Was it merely suicide? That doesn't seem too significant to me. Some people are wondering whether the Cylon Heavy Raider was seen after her Viper blew apart. I'll have to recheck that. What I am intrigued by is the reason her ship was disabled in the first place? If the Raider was imaginary, then how did her windshield crack? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but does this mean something?

    In addition, Kara came to the discovery that the figure she was seeing in her dreams and visions was NOT Leoben Conoy. If this wasn't Leoben, then who was it? This element clearly hints that there is more to this tale then just Kara's death by suicide. I'll have to check out the official podcast for this episode.

    The visual effects with the Vipers were simply amazing. How can a low-budget cable show get better effects than many movies? Not that I'm complaining about this.

    I agree that the final scene with Kara's mother might have been a little slow but overall this was a great complement to the previous episodes that focused more on socioeconomics and group issues.
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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [47]Mar 4, 2007
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    I have to say that I'm disappointing in Moore and Eick. Was it shocking as they described it? No. We all saw it coming from the massive rumour mill. Gut-wrenching is the more appropriate word. Especially when we see her Viper explode like that - that's when my brain started breaking down. I couldn't believe it. In fact, I think I'm still in shock. When my computer starting being a pain-in-the-ass (as always), I did something close to what Adama did in the last scene.

    It's sad, but I'm also proplexed as to why she had to die. All the post-"Rapture" talk about destiny, only for her to die in the aftermath of the supernova that shows that she painted it as a child. I don't get it. She fulfilled her destiny last season, didn't she? What with the arrow and all. The mandala was just a warning sign, wasn't it? Why wasn't there more for to do? Like others, I'm not entirely sure why her destiny was to die. I'm iffy that she'll be one of the final five. Even though her death came as no surprise, it was so because of rumours and all. She showing up as a Cylon would not only be a cheap plot pull, but cheapen her death unless they were to tie up what Leoben said about "seeing what lies between life and death," or something to that affect. That makes me think there's more to it than a simple death. I'm sure Katee's off the credits, but if this was done and then she shows up next season, it would be a great move to throw the audience off. Kara the Cylon, however, only works if they play it right and not just something to get out of killing off a beloved character. Done wrong, and her death was just a ploy to get a cheap shock out of the audience.

    Right now I'm heartbroken, but fine. I suspect when I go to bed, however, I'll dwell and rightfully cry myself to sleep. And when I wipe my tears and get my head together, I may think of more quesions and maybe do a bit more whining. Right now, it's right up there with Norton Drake's unceremonious death in the second season of War of the Worlds... except better written. I'm less sad about Kara dying, though, than I am that Katee is out of a job. That's why I may excuse sloppy writing if it means she gets to return.

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  • Avatar of maniac_____king

    maniac_____king

    [48]Mar 4, 2007
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    123home123 wrote:


    If the Raider was imaginary, then how did her windshield crack? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but does this mean something?


    i think the raider is real. but there must be some strange things going on as starbuck was the only pilot that saw it.

    if the raider's mission was to cause starbuck to die, i wonder why it was able to stay hidden for so long. unless there's a cylon on battlestar sending signals, how would the raider know when starbuck is on patrol.

    and the raider is sooooo lucky, how does it stay alive after being fired upon by starbuck. unless it's scar, i doubt any other raider could pilot as well to evade starbuck to get close enough to hit the viper.
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  • Avatar of demonhuntr

    demonhuntr

    [49]Mar 4, 2007
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    I still think the Ship of Lights from the first series would be a great addition. Having the 'Gods' give a more influential role to how this all works out with finding earth but yet remaining with an advantage over the cylons. I think Starbuck will reappear next season with the cracked cockpit with a vague memory of being aboard a ship, but will reveal a course or coordinates to Earth. A gift from the Gods
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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [50]Mar 4, 2007
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    maniac_____king wrote:
    and the raider is sooooo lucky, how does it stay alive after being fired upon by starbuck. unless it's scar, i doubt any other raider could pilot as well to evade starbuck to get close enough to hit the viper.
    Scar is dead. The Resurrection Ship in the Cylon fleet chasing Galactica's fleet was destroyed, so they had to take more drastic measures like trying to lure them into a trap ("The Captain's Hand").
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [51]Mar 4, 2007
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    I don't think they will "resurrect" the Ship of Lights from the original series but I do think something else is going on here other than Kara's death. What if she really is a Cylon, but one of the Final Five? Could the Leoben figure have been guiding her so that she would be near some type of resurrection chamber or ship?

    I really think Moore and Eick have something up their sleeves on this one. The only problem is that we'll have to wait until January of next year to see how this works out.
    Edited on 03/04/2007 9:27pm
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  • Avatar of Chainblast

    Chainblast

    [52]Mar 4, 2007
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    Kara is not dead and her destiny was not to die In fact, I'll say it now, she didn't and isn't dead. She just needed to overcome death to begin her destiny. She did that. They had a few shots of her grasping her ejection handle long before her ship blew up. Chances are she popped out and that raider picked her up. Her name will be back on the cast list next season. She was removed to keep people guessing whether she was dead or not or if she was really leaving the show. As Katee said in her last interview, she cannot say. The producers are just playing mind games.

    David Eick said to TV Guid that "Maelstrom" and "Crossroads, Part 2" tentpole the last 4 episodes and have something to do with Lee and Kara. I wonder what the could mean...

    PS. In other words, "Maulstrom" and the season 3 cliffhanger are related. Just watch...

    PPS. Anyone want to bet that Leoben was in that raider and he swooped down to pick Kara up after she ejected from her viper, thus fulfilling what the prophet said about Leoben coming to get her soon? After all, the dude in her "vision" wasn't Leoben.

    Oh one more thing, does anyone think that talk about the space between life and death the Leoben-like figure spoke of has any relation to what D'Anna spoke of? She spoke of discovering what was between life and death did she not? I think the whole thing is connected in a way.

    PPPS. The eye leads to Earth, Starbucks destiny is to find Earth and she flew into a storm resembling the eye.
    Edited on 03/04/2007 9:37pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of 123home123

    123home123

    [53]Mar 4, 2007
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    More interesting facts: Kara's apartment on Caprica was located in the city of Delphi (pronounced del-phee in this episode). Not only was the ancient Delphi (on Earth) the home of the oracle of Apollo, it was considered the navel of the Earth. Many ancient Greek colonies were sanctified by bringing the fire of the hearth from Delphi to the new locations.

    This seems like Delphi is a sort of womb, signifying rebirth. It's no coincidence that Kara's apartment is in the city of Delphi and that the writers made a point of mentioning the city's name in this episode. This was meant to be a signal that Kara will return in some form.

    And don't forget the heavy emphasis on the statuette of the goddess Aurora. Aurora was the Roman goddess of the dawn. She was renewed every morning according to Roman mythology.

    The focus on Delphi and Aurora clearly means that we have not seen the last of Kara Thrace. All the clues were laid out before us. So don't mourn for Starbuck. She'll be back but possibly in a different identity. Maybe as one of the Final Five or in some other form. And maybe she will get a new name. Possible Hestia but more likely Aurora, given the references in this episode. It would be similar to the "rebirth" of the Sharon Valerii character and the replacement of Boomer with Athena onboard the Galactica.
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  • Avatar of maniac_____king

    maniac_____king

    [54]Mar 4, 2007
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    my mistake.
    even if Scar is alive, that ship was a heavy raider by the looks of it.
    i saw the episode again and then i read your posts. sorry.
    Edited on 03/04/2007 10:04pm
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  • Avatar of Kamakazi_down

    Kamakazi_down

    [55]Mar 4, 2007
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    Either Kara or Lt Gaeta is the cylon. After Baltar whispered in Gaeta's ear in "Taking a Break..." he became the key suspect. As for Kara, "what hovers in the space between life and death" and the rest of the episode made me think at the end they were going to show her being reborn.
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  • Avatar of LDiaz457

    LDiaz457

    [56]Mar 4, 2007
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    I'm wondering if Kara will be revealed as one of the Final Five. Eick said that the end of the season will "redefine" how we think of Cylons. I also read somewhere that the final five might not necessarily be Cylons in the way we're used to thinking about them... with organic and mechanical components, that it's more of a Cylon 'mindset'.

    Also, her destiny is talked about between both humans and cylons and the fact that Leoben is so interested in her destiny... which brings back memories of what D'Anna had to say about 'the space between life and death', could mean that she's actually a Cylon.

    However, I read in an interview somewhere that Katee is looking towards other projects that aren't necessarily BSG-related, meaning she could be off the show for good. I'm thinking she's probably out and that if she does come back it will be as a guest-star for some 'flashback' episodes.

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  • Avatar of xxxBEASTxxx

    xxxBEASTxxx

    [57]Mar 4, 2007
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    Please let Starbuck become a Cylon!!! Then I will have a good foundation for not liking her. Anyway, I've suspected Geata being a Cylon since the miniseries. This was a pretty good episode, and I hope she isn't just off the show.
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  • Avatar of StelingMB

    StelingMB

    [58]Mar 4, 2007
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    I refuse to believe the normal rules apply...enough said!

    (As for real life, when Starbuck does arrise she better be played by Katee Sackhoff)!
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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [59]Mar 4, 2007
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    I love this thread. You guys have kind of cheered me up and given me hope that Kara isn't gone for good. And it's not just wishful thinking, either. There are a lot of questions pointed out that make sense. It's a good thing that the show has been renewed or most of this would be doubtful to come to fruition in just three remaining episodes. I'd like to think some of Katee's comments were orchestrated with the producers in order to throw fans off.

    However, until she returns, I can't imagine sitting down to watch this episode much often. Too painful until she shows up again. It's mainly that shot of her exploding Viper that'll never leave me. And on that note, I wanted to comment on Adama in that last scene. Not very many shows would have the guts to depicts a grown man, especially one in command of a warship, break down like that. It reminds me of the scene in "The Farm" where he weeps over Boomer's body.
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    thefloriantrout

    [60]Mar 4, 2007
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    HOORAY!!! she's dead! well, at least i hope so. at the very least please make her a Cylon.

    alas, i can guarantee her "destiny wasn't to die. so i will be forced into seeing her next season.

    :-(

    tFT
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