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Discussion - "Maelstrom" (3/4/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of Lavizrap

    Lavizrap

    [61]Mar 4, 2007
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    This is the first time I've done this, I hope it's to the public board. In this episode when Kara is talking about when she got back at her mother, she says it was during the first Cylon war. How can that be if it the last war was over forty years ago?
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    Invader_of_53

    [62]Mar 5, 2007
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    Lavizrap wrote:
    This is the first time I've done this, I hope it's to the public board. In this episode when Kara is talking about when she got back at her mother, she says it was during the first Cylon war. How can that be if it the last war was over forty years ago?


    No, she was just setting up the story. It was during the first Cylon War that her mom developed a phobia for bugs. Kara's payback came later.
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  • Avatar of SupremeLegate

    SupremeLegate

    [63]Mar 5, 2007
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    She was describing something her mother went through during the first cylon war, and then what she did with the knowledge of what her mother had gone trough.
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    lopktitanic

    [64]Mar 5, 2007
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    They said the eye of jupiter will led them to earth. i believe kara has been led to earth
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  • Avatar of tripping82

    tripping82

    [66]Mar 5, 2007
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    demonhuntr wrote:
    I still think the Ship of Lights from the first series would be a great addition. Having the 'Gods' give a more influential role to how this all works out with finding earth but yet remaining with an advantage over the cylons. I think Starbuck will reappear next season with the cracked cockpit with a vague memory of being aboard a ship, but will reveal a course or coordinates to Earth. A gift from the Gods

    I agree.  The Ship of Lights would be a great addition or something similar in mind at least. 

    ""The Wheel of Fire", an unproduced Galactica 1980 episode, reveals that Starbuck was eventually rescued by the beings from the Ship of Lights and that the entire affair was set up by them, to test whether Starbuck was worthy to join them. Starbuck passes the test and becomes one of the Ship's crew." - Wikipedia

    I think that Kara is alive and perhaps stranded on that planet (if that's possible due to the storm) or the heavy raider picked her up and she is now with Cylons.

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  • Avatar of SimonAitken

    SimonAitken

    [67]Mar 5, 2007
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    I can't bealive she's gone!!!!!!!!!
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [68]Mar 5, 2007
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    tripping82 wrote:

    I think that Kara is alive and perhaps stranded on that planet (if that's possible due to the storm) or the heavy raider picked her up and she is now with Cylons.

    Kara couldn't survive on the planet. If you remember, there were numerous references to the pressure being greater the closer to the surface they dove. In fact, it was the atmospheric pressure which caused Starbuck's Viper to explode. It was the increasing pressure that made Adama yell for Lee to pull up and come back to Galactica. Adama was hoping to send Raptors to go search for Kara, since Raptors can withstand more damage than Vipers can before they are destroyed.

    Also, to everyone else, there was a quick shot of Kara, as a little girl, smiling and closing her eyes while being enveloped in bright light. I think this is more proof to support the ideas that Kara has been "reborn" from her experience. When I saw that, I immediately thought the bright light reminded me of the "Opera House" that Baltar and D'Anna have seen in visions. I think it is quite likely that Kara will turn out to be a member of the Final Five.

    However, the promos for this season have said that "someone will discover they are a Cylon", and that hasn't actually happened yet. Since Katee Sackoff isn't supposed to appear again this season, I wonder if someone else will turn out to be the Cylon?

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  • Avatar of orxis

    orxis

    [69]Mar 5, 2007
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    Guys, I 've read all your theories and it seems curious to me that no one has come up with what seems very probable to me... Anyone remember "space odyssey"? (The book, that is, not the crappy movie). Death is often the means for ascension to a higher level of existence - a non corporeal one.... The whole thing about her destiny and venturing between life and death reminds me of that. If that is the case I expect we 'll only see Katee in a guest staring role from now on, in the form of visions or apparitions, guiding some other characters...

    The only other, more mundane, alternative that I see as possible is that she ejected before the explosion (there was a hint about that in the episode) and was picked up by the raider that was real (as we momentarily see it from apollo's perspective). Note that a heavy raider is required to transport someone but is rather anorthodox for a scouting mission (which gives an indication about its purpose there). In that case I 'll expect we 'll see her again in the first or second episode of the next season as a captive on a cylon ship.

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    MemnochZERO

    [70]Mar 5, 2007
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    That's the end result I'm hoping for. Failing that, her being reborn as a Cylon, though I'm iffy on that. It'd make sense that Leoben haunted and bsessed over Starbuck, maybe her "special destiny" is revealing herself as one of the final five.Either way BSG with no Kara Thrace = me slightly less interested.
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  • Avatar of FrakkingFrakker

    FrakkingFrakker

    [71]Mar 5, 2007
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    A series of thoughts have come to me while reading this thread after having seen the episode as well.

    My first thought is a question. Um... Whatever happened to "starbuck's ovaries" or whatever it was? The cylons did take something out of her in "The Farm" or did I miss a retraction on that thought?

    Did we see the heavy raider after the explosion? Not sure. Did we see it in an Apollo perspective shot, I thought so, yes.

    Wait, the man in her visions was not Leobon? Guess that explains the sudden and trendy change in wardrobe. So here's my 4 cents, for what it's worth... I think it was a trap. I think the Cylons needed her. Since Baltar is obviously not gonna sit in the cylon big chair, maybe kara is...not as one of the final five, but a different approach by the cylons to fulfill their "plan." I dunno.

    The whole transcending to a higher plane of existence thing works for me too. Not the whole ship of lights thing. That doesn't work for me.

    Is it possible this planet was the "eye of jupiter?" That the storm was some spacial anomaly that transported her to Earth? Well, if they were going to do that I hope to the Gods they'd have made that reveal in the episode.

    In the end, I still would just feel cheated if one person turned out to be more than one of the three big reveals. Kara is Dead. Long Live Kara.

    Oh, and props to our homeboy Eddie Olmos! What an amazing moment. Brilliant!
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  • Avatar of orxis

    orxis

    [72]Mar 5, 2007
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    About Kara's sojourn as a cylon guinea pig:

    As far as I remember it the experiment was a bust. None of the women in the farm were able to bring to term live hybrids. I think the sterile or even savage conditions of the experiment were supposed to contrast with the fact that a hybrid was eventually conceived in a loving relationship between helo and athena...

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  • Avatar of ScnJedi

    ScnJedi

    [73]Mar 5, 2007
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    123home123 wrote:
    What I am intrigued by is the reason her ship was disabled in the first place? If the Raider was imaginary, then how did her windshield crack? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws here, but does this mean something?

    Her windshield was struck by lightning I think.

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  • Avatar of Finalsequel

    Finalsequel

    [74]Mar 5, 2007
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    Well, I wasn't that shocked by Starbuck's "death". It had been hinted out all over the net and the foreshadowing earlier in the episode(with her Apollo discussing where they wanted thier pictures placed when they died) really sealed it. However I really believe that she is one of the Final Five. Loeben said something about "guiding her through the space between life and death".

    123home123 wrote:
    If the Raider was imaginary, then how did her windshield crack?

    I assumed it cracked becuase of the pressure from the storm.

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  • Avatar of azrail1982

    azrail1982

    [75]Mar 5, 2007
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    with all those remarks and hints about her being special etc...i doubt she will be gone for good(but maybe thats wishfull thinking, who knows)
    anyways i also dont think she is a final five cylon..it just wouldnt fit imo
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  • Avatar of MuffinBRFC

    MuffinBRFC

    [76]Mar 5, 2007
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    Leoben could have simply talked ballocks to Starbuck all those episodes ago when he was shunted out the airlock, but got to her head, then further so on New Caprica, got it into her head she was special, perhaps she cracked, and that was the cylons plan, she was one of the sole biggest threats to them and they had leoben play on her mental fragility and she has simply cracked?

    probably not the case but an option to consider.

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  • Avatar of orxis

    orxis

    [77]Mar 5, 2007
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    weak dude...
    if they wanted her dead they could have killed her any time in new caprica... she was their prisoner...
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  • Avatar of Branstrom

    Branstrom

    [78]Mar 5, 2007
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    All I know is, she better be back next season... Otherwise I'll send a box of poo to Moore and Eick.

    home123home puts the spotlight on some interesting points and other comments are very intriguing to read too. This is a really nice thread. But there's a LOT of speculation going on here, some of which I kinda won't stand for. :p

    I very much hope the intention is not for her to have "ascended" or been taken aboard some mystical Ship of Lights or whatever. That kind of stuff doesn't belong on this show, IMHO.

    Her being one of the Final Five Cylons is definately something I'll just have to think long and hard about if I want to accept or not.

    I'll probably have to rewatch the entire series to re-evaluate everything from that perspective. On the other hand she doesn't know who she is, so it kinda doesn't really put past events under a new light...

    It feels like The Seven Known don't talk about the Five simply because they have no knowledge/memory of them. That may be part of the base programming, the ultimate plan of the Cylon race. And the Five are included in the plan, and they or some of them are living among the humans as agents, and no one, not even themselves know it, until the time comes for the plan to be unraveled.

    I kind of trust the writers, and hopefully I won't be disappointed in the end.
    Edited on 03/05/2007 12:34pm
    Edited 6 total times.
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [79]Mar 5, 2007
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    OK my first message was deleted so here goes number two. I am so happy Starbuck is dead. Now let's get back to the plot line. The fact that the Cylons have recently killed 12 Billion people and are trying to exterminate the last 50 thousand or so. This new series took the one interesting character from the first BSG and turned him into a drunken jerk. Richard Hatch was right when he voiced his concern over this new Starbuck character. The whole Starbuck and Apollo arc was twisted. It was like watching Jerry Springer in Space. They didn't need Vipers and nukes, they needed Dr Phil! And how is it these Cylons have all these visions and prophetic powers? I thought they were machines! Sorry friends, but I will not be downloading any more BSG episodes from I-Tunes until they cut the Lifetime TV crap and start writing good episodes. And I am a bit disturbed that my previous posting was deleted for some words that made people feel uncomfortable (no vulgarity mind you) but you'll watch that Jerry Springer Train Wreck called Starbuck drink and swear and abuse everyone around her. Sounds like someone needs Dr Phil even more.
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  • Avatar of blackeyedgurl

    blackeyedgurl

    [80]Mar 5, 2007
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    Don't remember who mentioned it, but of course his name is not Leoben, none of the cylon models technically have names. They are numbers. Their lack of individual identity was an intentional thing, any who name themselves are technically enigma. There are hundreds of the Leoben model, but not all are called that.

    They took an ovary of Kara's, BUT remember, the female egg call has 100% of the genetic material of the mother, it is not outside the realm of possibilities to think 1 of 2 things: the cylons cloned her -or- they took the egg to confirm that she is one of the final 5. The #6 model's all have a hatred of Kara, and they are also the "we don't talk about the other 5" model. But it would prove mighty convienent as a plot device to have that genetic material to make Kara a new shell from.

    Could it be that someone like Kara was part of an original hybridization project, from the beginning inception of the humanoid cylon project? The Toasters do not have the capabilities to have created the humanoids on their own, instead someone else must have been instrumental in the human form cylons, probably a human. Or that possibly the final 5 models differ from the models we currently know because they can grow and age? Could she have been the original Hera? Could the mastermind behind the Cylons be an earthling? Seems surprising that the young Kara had such visions of very old things, things left behind by those people.

    My friend thinks that her mother may have been "given" Kara as a military project. It was mentioned that she also was a soldier, and that perhaps crossing the armitice line wasn't the first time the humans messed with the cylons. Maybe they found young humanoid cylons and sent them to be raised in different atmospheres to see how they would react. Kara ending up in a seemingly abusive household would be an excellent nature vs. nurture situation.

    Perhaps they were stolen as children, and before the person behind the cylon creation could stop their age progression, as had been done with other models. Maybe they were stolen while they were all in development and thus the remaining 7 models were finished, but these were not and progressed as normal seeming humans.

    BTW: The term Final Five is very misleading, it suggests that they were the last 5 models made (which makes no sense considering Sharon is a model 8, and you'd think they'd go in numerical order), I think the Remaining Five would be more accurate because they are just the ones remaining as unknowns.

    My theory: Kara is either a full blown cylon, or some sort of hybrid. I wouldn't be shocked to see her in the final moments of the season. To make it more interesting, perhaps her model doesn't retain the information of her life as the others do, and she doesn't remember who or what she was before this time... Technically when they had her held captive on New Caprica, they could have tortured her and imprisoned her as they had the other humans, she got preferential treatment, and there has to be a reason why, besides "leoben has a crush on her."

    I dunno, but if she's gone for good, they can count me out as a viewer. She was one of my top reasons for watching the show, it'll be a lot duller without her, and frankly, we're running dangerously short on female characters. As much as #6 is great, Kara gave us normal girls someone to enjoy and relate to, I can't relate to a super-hot mind-frakker, but I can relate to someone who'd a little frakked in the mind.

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