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Syfy (ended 2010)

Discussion - "Maelstrom" (3/4/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of Sidewindr2

    Sidewindr2

    [101]Mar 6, 2007
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    ttoupal wrote:
    Baltar is most likely the Cylon. I have suspected this from the first episode where number 6 had first occupied his mind.


    Don't forget that Caprica 6 has her own Baltar in her head.
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  • Avatar of Mangalore

    Mangalore

    [102]Mar 6, 2007
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    trip31 wrote:
    I can't see them bringing in the ship of lights, it's a pure fantasy element and would detract from the drama of the series. If it happens the show might as some put it time after time after time "jump the shark"


    The ship of light appeared to justify yet another Naziepisode in a SF series. It was why original Galactica's season2 can be thrown out of the window.

    I also believe that given they portray all the mysticism more intimate it would be kind of crude to adopt this ship of light thing. However the final five could be what the light ship was in the original series or be similar (just thinking of the temple season there).
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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [103]Mar 6, 2007
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    Starbuck theory #1: One way she can come back is not as a Cylon, but in Lee's mind. She can be a subconscious guide to Lee, like Six is to Baltar, because of her death. Lee will be unnerved by her death and as a result he may notice something he normally wouldn't have, and they find something important. Kind of lame but it could work. Just something I thought up, and I hope it is better than that.

    Starbuck theory #2: As for the Final Five, I think they could have been failed models. The purpose of the humanoid Cylons was to infiltrate the human race. Maybe they made some models too human and they defected. Athena is an individual example. Six said they did not talk about them and that is a good reason, and it would explain why D'Anna wanted to find out who they are. That is the only way I would like to see Starbuck as a Cylon, or any of the other main charaters. They said we would rethink what a Cylon was, and that would do it. If one of the Adama's, Tigh, or the President turned out to be a Cylon that rejected their original programing and turned to aid the humans it would completely redefine what the Cylon race was. That said, I don't think they could have reached as high of a position as the Admiral and Lee before the war, so I think at best it would be a mid-level officer like Gaeta, Starbuck, or Tyrol.

    If Starbuck was one of the failed models maybe she erased her memory, and replaced it with the one she had for the duration of the show, but placed clues to her past in it so she knew the right time to return to the Cylons and try and stop them. Maybe Leoben defected also, but his job was to wait for Kara, and he was in the heavy raider to pick her up. Earlier he got impatient and started the whole stalkerish destiny thing. I'm not very sure about the Leoben part, but the Final five idea has some potential.

    PS. As for the whole ship of light thing, I hope they don't do it because it sounds way too much like Stargate, and it would cheapen the somewhat reality the show possesses.
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  • Avatar of trip31

    trip31

    [104]Mar 6, 2007
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    Jebus I could not stand another "virtual character" I think it's enough with 6 in baltars head and baltar in 6's head!
    Edited on 03/06/2007 2:39am
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  • Avatar of t_heger

    t_heger

    [105]Mar 6, 2007
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    Ok, so I don't want to draw any conclussions (you can draw them for your self), but around after 39:30 min into the episode, where there's, according to Gaeta "60 seconds untill they reach the hard deck", Apollo finally finds Starbuck in the clouds. But here's the interesting part: We see what he sees, from his perspective - and what Apollo sees for about one-two seonds is a Heavy Raider dissappearing into the clouds BEFORE he spots Starbuck's Viper, making him exclaim "Visual! Visual!" before he continues "Ok, Kara, I'm coming to get you...".

    We see him seeing the Heavy Raider, and we, from his perspective can also hear it. So there really was a Heavy Raider. Take a look for your self.

    (Fortunately, I can get pictureproof as of yet. I'm working with it).

    Edited on 03/06/2007 3:24am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of karvastor-br

    karvastor-br

    [106]Mar 6, 2007
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    Yep... confirmed... that really happened... it's very hard to notice that watching the episode one time only since it's there just for 2 seconds at most, but now that you've pointed it...

    The oracle say earlier in the episode "He's coming for you... soon... you can't stop him... and he will show you the way".. Now, she could be referring to the last scene where Leoben takes Kara to see her mom... all that becoming officer/mother with cancer thing... He came as a dream and showed her the way to be free (whatever it means) and of course there is still something else about it we'll have to wait a few more episodes to find out... But now that t_heger pointed that heavy raider, it could also mean that he was (physically) coming to get her... I don't know... but I'm excitedly confused
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  • Avatar of ScnJedi

    ScnJedi

    [107]Mar 6, 2007
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    whalenapp81 wrote:
    u know what would be the true twist, is when baltar goes on trial and gets executed, cause u know they will eventually shove him out the airlock, he will wakeup in a resurrection tank and he will see starbuck looking down at him and thats how the season will end, that would blow my mind

    Yeah, that would be one hell of a cliffhanger, but it won't happen. I read an interview that said that the drama in the last episode takes place aboard Galactica, so I'm guessing that's where the cliffhanger will be. Maybe the cliffhanger will be Baltar's sentencing?

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  • Avatar of Obaida

    Obaida

    [108]Mar 6, 2007
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    Clearly, I'm a part of a very small minority when I say, " Please, Please PLEASE keep her annoying ass dead!" Not only was Starbuck the character I hated the most on this show, she was the character I hated the most on ANY show EVER.

    Seriously, if it wasn't for how well this show is (generally) written and how great a lot of the other characters are, I would have kicked this show to the curb a long time ago. Frankly, I don't care how they retcon the whole "you're so special/destiny/bullseye drawing" crap, just so long as they don't bring her back. Ever. In any shape or form. Please.
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  • Avatar of hash1978

    hash1978

    [109]Mar 6, 2007
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    Very interesting...123's rebirth analysis makes sense since the cylons are heavy on the symbolism. The naming - instead of numbering - of a few special individual Cylons may be a hit towards Kara somehow being one herself. AthenaAurora already mentioned Leoben saying "Where is Kara Thrace, is she here?" on New Caprica, and I'm speculating here, but could this mean that there are other "Kara" models, like there's a Sharon Valerii, Sharon Agathon..?

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  • Avatar of bias-pitch

    bias-pitch

    [110]Mar 6, 2007
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    hurrah hurrah hurrah starbuck is dead,

    now lets bury her

    and move on!

    there is finally hope for better episodes on the horizon
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  • Avatar of ScnJedi

    ScnJedi

    [111]Mar 6, 2007
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    What if Katee was lying about her schedule wrapping with Maelstrom and appears at the end of Crossroads? Ron Moore practically gave away what was going to happen in Maelstrom, so maybe they are keeping a huge twist involving Starbuck for Crossroads?
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  • Avatar of NEPAKevin

    NEPAKevin

    [112]Mar 6, 2007
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    Mangalore wrote:
    trip31 wrote:
    I can't see them bringing in the ship of lights, it's a pure fantasy element and would detract from the drama of the series. If it happens the show might as some put it time after time after time "jump the shark"


    The ship of light appeared to justify yet another Naziepisode in a SF series. It was why original Galactica's season2 can be thrown out of the window.

    I also believe that given they portray all the mysticism more intimate it would be kind of crude to adopt this ship of light thing. However the final five could be what the light ship was in the original series or be similar (just thinking of the temple season there).


    Prior to the Premier episode, they aired a "the making of..."  feature where they discussed trying to use elements from the original series while making changes that would coincide with the darker more adult if you will feel of the new series and thus far have done so admirably.   If they choose to write in the "ship of lights" I have confidence the writters will do so in a manner that is appropriate and not anything like the disco era bleached uniforms and cheesey melodrama that was typical of the first BSG.  
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  • Avatar of onsloww

    onsloww

    [113]Mar 6, 2007
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    Don't get why everyone is so happy with kara's death. I myself think it's pretty risky and hope they will bring her back. Sure she is annoying and sure she isn't a role model.
    And that';s exactly why she is so great. She's human. You never know what het character is going to do because of her past she is so conflicted she can't make stable decisions. This way she remains a realistic and interesting character to see.
    I think it's great to have characters that aren;t perfect. Adds to the realism...
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  • Avatar of memevirus

    memevirus

    [114]Mar 6, 2007
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    Considering the amount of investment in Starbuck as a character and that fact that the suicide was positioned as a step towards her destiny - the only theory which makes sense so far is the "Kara is a cylon" theory.

    And I checked the scene where Lee says "Visual, Visual" - there is a heavy raider which disappears into the clouds.

    Assuming that she is a cylon and that she is going to wake up somewhere:
    I find it interesting how all the people who find out that they are cylons are usually going through a sense of "something is not right" - Remember Sharon and the wetness and her increasing paranoia that something was wrong.

    The only other person who exhibits some kind of unease is Baltar - but it will be too easy and glib if Baltar is cylon and that isnt like the BSG writers.

    All said and done, I am really pumped about the next set of episodes. This was a fantastic episode and I want more !

    I loved the Lee and Kara scenes in this - love the way Lee lets her know that he cares. Loved the last scene with the admiral - he is fantastic. Gimme more !

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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [115]Mar 6, 2007
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    onsloww wrote:
    Don't get why everyone is so happy with kara's death. I myself think it's pretty risky and hope they will bring her back. Sure she is annoying and sure she isn't a role model.
    And that';s exactly why she is so great. She's human. You never know what het character is going to do because of her past she is so conflicted she can't make stable decisions. This way she remains a realistic and interesting character to see.
    I think it's great to have characters that aren;t perfect. Adds to the realism...

    Well, half the people who are glad Kara is dead are the people that never got over RDM making Starbuck a female character (since Starbuck was male in the original BSG). The other half are people who probably liked her at one point in the series but lost interest when the whole "love rectangle" of Kara, Lee, Anders, and Dee got going. Alot of people (me included) thought that that whole drama was bringing the series down unnecessarily.

    Personally, I'm hoping Starbuck returns in some form (preferably as one of the Final Five) but doesn't return as a regular cast member. I wouldn't want her soap opera to start over again.

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  • Avatar of ScnJedi

    ScnJedi

    [116]Mar 6, 2007
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    They should have showed Lee putting her photo up next to Kat. Predictable, but emotional.
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  • Avatar of onsloww

    onsloww

    [117]Mar 6, 2007
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    copygeek wrote:

    Well, half the people who are glad Kara is dead are the people that never got over RDM making Starbuck a female character (since Starbuck was male in the original BSG). The other half are people who probably liked her at one point in the series but lost interest when the whole "love rectangle" of Kara, Lee, Anders, and Dee got going. Alot of people (me included) thought that that whole drama was bringing the series down unnecessarily.

    Personally, I'm hoping Starbuck returns in some form (preferably as one of the Final Five) but doesn't return as a regular cast member. I wouldn't want her soap opera to start over again.



    I agree. The love rectangle was stretched out to far... i did like the story about them on new caprica but the whol thing from "eye of jupiter" was too much.
    I'm not sure if I would want her as regular or as recurring.  We have so many recurring characters that i don;t know if it would be so great... same for the cylon theory. I don;t really like the idea.
    But I am very curious to how they will bring her back (if they bring her back).
    It's still possible that she's still human. After all there was a heavy raider nearby and she had her hand on the ejection handle. Who knows
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  • Avatar of AthenaAurora

    AthenaAurora

    [118]Mar 6, 2007
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    I was just thinking on a positive note. In order to pacify fans of both the new and old series why not tie them together in order to finish off the old series (while keeping the older fans respect). I was just a poor kid with no idea of what Star Wars was about intil 4years after it was released. I had whatever was on t.v. at the time. I loved the origional series thought it was fun and campy. I like the new series because it is more adult. Google Glen A Larson, he was the man during that time period. Who knew this series would last more than a year? Why not bring back Starbuck as a hot good looking pilot, cigar chomping, womanizing, card playing, sexist, kind hearted guy for a while(i.e. Kara) who has to save humanity? A Quantum Leap moment for sure. Can you just imagine a scene where Starbuck is trying to convince Lee that he is Kara? "I'll prove it just kiss me!" Then Adama,Tigh,and Dee walk in. Come on lighten up people it's just a great Scifi tv show, roll with it!
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  • Avatar of zzbeach

    zzbeach

    [119]Mar 6, 2007
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    SciFiGroupie wrote in his review of this episode:

    The writers of most Hollywood dreck think that by creating characters like Starbuck they're promoting the interests of women, but in reality they end up portraying them in the most negative ways. Strong successful women need not also be sexually indiscriminate, emotionally damaged deviants with no ethics or morals ... but that seems to be the way Hollywood views women these days.

    Pin a medal on this person! Starbuck was Anna Nichole Smith with a Viper! It amazes me how young women can relate to and even idolize Starbuck. Just let me ask you a question, if Starbuck was a man would you have admired his womanizing, drunken behavior and his destructive self pity?


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  • Avatar of aimers22

    aimers22

    [120]Mar 6, 2007
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    My apologies if this has already been brought up, but I have a couple thoughts.
    First, season four will probably reveal the members of the final five, so there has to be something after that if the writers want to have more than four seasons (assuming that once the mystery of the unknown cylons is revealed the show will go downhill)
    Second, We really know very little about the leap from stupid robots to skin jobs. Why haven't the cylons created more of them so they could continue to infiltrate the colonies. My theory is that the 7 known cylons don't know how because they were created by the 5.
    Third, we really have little idea what happened to starbuck in the OB/GYN factory from much earlier as well as when she was held captive by leoben. Therefore, my theory is that the 7 cylons found a way to copy starbucks conciousness and place it into a cylon body. Thus they have developed the ability to create new skin jobs.

    when Kara entered the big circle thing (can't remember its name) she was much more durable than a human, survived for a while in order to learn "what is between life and death" (unconcious of her being a cylon) then get resurrected as starbuck in a new shiny cylon body played by a different actor OR she downloads to a ressurection ship, they take a look at her experience and delete...empty recycle bin.

    I think the big thing the writers want us to get out of is the mindset that cylon= evil. They tried to show us with Athena  but cylon is just a body or vessel if you will, starbuck in a cylon body is still Kara and is still good.
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