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Discussion - "Maelstrom" (3/4/07 episode) (spoilers)

  • Avatar of ttoupal

    ttoupal

    [141]Mar 8, 2007
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    Maybe the final five are half human/half cylon beings.  They could be a rare occurance in nature and always take on the same 5 forms due to some limitations or precoded sequence in the cylone dna structure.
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [142]Mar 9, 2007
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    ttoupal wrote:

    They have already shown that they will rewrite the original plot lines to suit a more progressive story line; this much we can trust.  They will keep a name, an object and a few original plot details/facts and then rewrite the entire story.

    From the original series, remember the boy genious that charts the stars and paves the way to earth.  I believe he had some relationship with the ship of light.  I wonder if the half human/half cylon baby will adapt that plot line.

    One question I have is how did the temple have a link to the "final five"?  Also, the cylons did not exist when the temple was built, so how can the cylons be related to the final five.  The temple was created by the forefathers traveling to earth.  How did they have an understanding of the final five and their caprica brothers and sister did not?

    This is where the show gets interesting. 

    It was mentioned as a theory in the episode thread about the Temple of the Five that it seems unlikely that the 13th Tribe would travel PAST the planet with the Temple, see the Supernova lightyears away, then BACKTRACK to the planet and build the Temple as a clue to the path to Earth. By that theory (which I agree with), it is more likely that the 13th Tribe CAME FROM Earth, passed the Supernova, then continued to the planet where they built the Temple, before heading to Kobol, and eventually settling permanently on the 12 Colonies.

    As for the idea about Hera, in Maelstrom Helo mentioned that he and Athena were taking Hera to see a psychiatrist because she had been shaken up a bit by past events. How old is Hera, now? Can you possibly take a one or two year old to a psychiatrist? Hera has never been shown to even be walking, yet! Until she's capable of understanding verbal communication, it seems strange that Helo and Athena would send their daughter to a phychiatrist.

    Makes you wonder if hybrid babies have an accelerated growth pattern!

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  • Avatar of DrLar

    DrLar

    [143]Mar 9, 2007
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    I didn't like the way they killed her off, I was expecting she died in battle like a good soldier, but no, they have to pull out the suicide card, unless she's not dead. If she's really dead and never returns that will totally sux!

    Like, "hey you had this vision since a child of the eye of Jupiter, guess what you are going to kill yourself by flying into a look-a-like eye in your prime years, sorry"...
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  • Avatar of alex20020712

    alex20020712

    [144]Mar 9, 2007
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    DrLar wrote:
    I didn't like the way they killed her off, I was expecting she died in battle like a good soldier, but no, they have to pull out the suicide card, unless she's not dead. If she's really dead and never returns that will totally sux!


    If you listen to the commentary, it is clear she is dead. The "coming back" part is a very different story. The character/actress can come back in many ways.
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  • Avatar of bsj2099

    bsj2099

    [145]Mar 9, 2007
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    The more I think about the more I like this episode and Starbuck dying this way. I think it would've been sort of redundant to have die heroically like Kat did earlier this year.
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  • Avatar of tripping82

    tripping82

    [146]Mar 9, 2007
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    copygeek wrote:
    ttoupal wrote:

    They have already shown that they will rewrite the original plot lines to suit a more progressive story line; this much we can trust.  They will keep a name, an object and a few original plot details/facts and then rewrite the entire story.

    From the original series, remember the boy genious that charts the stars and paves the way to earth.  I believe he had some relationship with the ship of light.  I wonder if the half human/half cylon baby will adapt that plot line.

    One question I have is how did the temple have a link to the "final five"?  Also, the cylons did not exist when the temple was built, so how can the cylons be related to the final five.  The temple was created by the forefathers traveling to earth.  How did they have an understanding of the final five and their caprica brothers and sister did not?

    This is where the show gets interesting. 

    It was mentioned as a theory in the episode thread about the Temple of the Five that it seems unlikely that the 13th Tribe would travel PAST the planet with the Temple, see the Supernova lightyears away, then BACKTRACK to the planet and build the Temple as a clue to the path to Earth. By that theory (which I agree with), it is more likely that the 13th Tribe CAME FROM Earth, passed the Supernova, then continued to the planet where they built the Temple, before heading to Kobol, and eventually settling permanently on the 12 Colonies.

    As for the idea about Hera, in Maelstrom Helo mentioned that he and Athena were taking Hera to see a psychiatrist because she had been shaken up a bit by past events. How old is Hera, now? Can you possibly take a one or two year old to a psychiatrist? Hera has never been shown to even be walking, yet! Until she's capable of understanding verbal communication, it seems strange that Helo and Athena would send their daughter to a phychiatrist.

    Makes you wonder if hybrid babies have an accelerated growth pattern!

    If they're reading this out of a book. Then whoever wrote the book must have been on the trip to Earth from the 12 Colonies, right? Then the question is how or who brought the book/scripture from Earth back to the 12 Colonies?
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  • Avatar of myrmeman4

    myrmeman4

    [147]Mar 9, 2007
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    I don't think that they are going to kill her off. I was reading on a Sci Fi website an article that stated that she is under contract for 5 seasons. So maybe she punched out at the last second or the cylons were able to save her or something. But I don't think that we have seen the last of Kara Thrace. I don't know, but that is my opinion.
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  • Avatar of katmom13159

    katmom13159

    [148]Mar 9, 2007
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    katmom13159 wrote:

    Howdy all....I have loved reading your remarks about one of my fav shows....

    Looked, but didn't see the heavy raider that was chatted about....my DH keeps wondering why I keep going back and looking....lol

    BUT....I was going SLOW through those seconds when Kara's ship was exploding....then went back to JUST BEFORE the ship blew.....Kara was bathed in light...the ship was flying smoothly....unlike Lee, who was bouncing all over the place....

    THEN, just before the ship blew, there is a closeup of the cockpit.....NO KARA.....

    No clue how to get "screen shots", but someone else with TIVO, maybe you can confirm?

    Back to lurker mode.....



    Moving this over to the next page.....anyone else see, or actually NOT see, Kara in the cockpit?
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  • Avatar of ttoupal

    ttoupal

    [149]Mar 9, 2007
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    copygeek wrote:

    It was mentioned as a theory in the episode thread about the Temple of the Five that it seems unlikely that the 13th Tribe would travel PAST the planet with the Temple, see the Supernova lightyears away, then BACKTRACK to the planet and build the Temple as a clue to the path to Earth. By that theory (which I agree with), it is more likely that the 13th Tribe CAME FROM Earth, passed the Supernova, then continued to the planet where they built the Temple, before heading to Kobol, and eventually settling permanently on the 12 Colonies.

    As for the idea about Hera, in Maelstrom Helo mentioned that he and Athena were taking Hera to see a psychiatrist because she had been shaken up a bit by past events. How old is Hera, now? Can you possibly take a one or two year old to a psychiatrist? Hera has never been shown to even be walking, yet! Until she's capable of understanding verbal communication, it seems strange that Helo and Athena would send their daughter to a phychiatrist.

    Makes you wonder if hybrid babies have an accelerated growth pattern!



    Correct me if I am wrong, but, it is my understanding that the 13 tribes originated on Kobol. There was some catatophic event that forced them to leave. Let's call it a maganetic pole change that would have changed the physical location of the north and south poles and totally destroy all higher life forms on Kobol.

    12 of the tribes headed to what eventually becan known as Caprica and the other well known planets. The thirteenth tribe headed towards Earth. The Temple was a rest stop along the way to Earth for only the thirteenth tribe.
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  • Avatar of ttoupal

    ttoupal

    [150]Mar 9, 2007
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    I agree that it is very probable that cylon hybrid babies mature at an accelerated rate.  They will tend to be smart if not borderline genius.  Anybody think that mold might fit Baltar?
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  • Avatar of alex20020712

    alex20020712

    [151]Mar 9, 2007
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    myrmeman4 wrote:
    I don't think that they are going to kill her off. I was reading on a Sci Fi website an article that stated that she is under contract for 5 seasons.


    Maybe these contracts are biased in favor of the production. i.e., keeping the actors from walking out whenever they want, but leaving the production the option to get rid of them.

    Have you listened to Moore's commentary on this episode? She is dead.
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  • Avatar of ScnJedi

    ScnJedi

    [152]Mar 9, 2007
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    alex20020712 wrote:
    myrmeman4 wrote:
    I don't think that they are going to kill her off. I was reading on a Sci Fi website an article that stated that she is under contract for 5 seasons.
    Maybe these contracts are biased in favor of the production. i.e., keeping the actors from walking out whenever they want, but leaving the production the option to get rid of them. Have you listened to Moore's commentary on this episode? She is dead.

    Well, of course he's going to say that. He's not going to say "oh yeah, she's not permanently dead, we're bringing her back in the season 3 cliffhanger" is he?

    Apologies for the sarcasm.

    Edited on 03/09/2007 3:56pm
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  • Avatar of ttoupal

    ttoupal

    [153]Mar 9, 2007
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    [QUOTE="alex20020712"]
    myrmeman4 wrote:
    Have you listened to Moore's commentary on this episode? She is dead.


    Yes, but this may the literary answer to agree with the current story line and it's intented reaction.

    We may get a different answer later to agree with . . . .
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  • Avatar of ttoupal

    ttoupal

    [154]Mar 9, 2007
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    alex20020712 wrote:
    myrmeman4 wrote:
    Have you listened to Moore's commentary on this episode? She is dead.
    Yes, but this may the literary answer to agree with the current story line and it's intented reaction. We may get a different answer later to agree with . . . .
    I am listening to it now and Ron Moore says to the effect that Kara, as originally written, was to discover something that would eventually lead them to earth; ship of light, wink wink nudge nudge. They changed to ending to get a more slap in the face ending; killing her off. I believe the ship of light is out there in the alternate and final release ending.
    Edited on 03/09/2007 4:12pm
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  • Avatar of alex20020712

    alex20020712

    [155]Mar 9, 2007
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    ScnJedi wrote:
    Well, of course he's going to say that. He's not going to say "oh yeah, she's not permanently dead, we're bringing her back in the season 3 cliffhanger" is he?

    Apologies for the sarcasm.


    You were not listening very well. Moore called Katee Sackhoff, and "it was a difficult conversation." It did not sit well with her. The writers were shocked. The network had to be convinced. And so on. Would why everyone be so upset, if they were only going to make it look as if she was dead, and then bring her right back?

    Are you seriously suggesting Moore is just lying about all this, and setting up some kind of elaborate publicity stunt? What kind of credibility would he have left, afterwards? Absolutely none. No one would listen to him or believe him again.

    No, she is dead. Could they bring her back? Absolutely. I have already said that, but if she did come back, it would be under different circumstances. It would not be "oh, I was not really dead."
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  • Avatar of jaikeb

    jaikeb

    [156]Mar 9, 2007
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    katmom13159 wrote:
    katmom13159 wrote:

    Howdy all....I have loved reading your remarks about one of my fav shows....

    Looked, but didn't see the heavy raider that was chatted about....my DH keeps wondering why I keep going back and looking....lol

    BUT....I was going SLOW through those seconds when Kara's ship was exploding....then went back to JUST BEFORE the ship blew.....Kara was bathed in light...the ship was flying smoothly....unlike Lee, who was bouncing all over the place....

    THEN, just before the ship blew, there is a closeup of the cockpit.....NO KARA.....

    No clue how to get "screen shots", but someone else with TIVO, maybe you can confirm?

    Back to lurker mode.....

    Moving this over to the next page.....anyone else see, or actually NOT see, Kara in the cockpit?
    She was in the cockpit. http://bp0.blogger.com/_rkK2RkDDA5A/RfIFBIMUHOI/AAAAAAAAAAM/LIgpvFwi7XA/s1600-h/IMG_3724.JPG
    Edited on 03/09/2007 5:11pm
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  • Avatar of katmom13159

    katmom13159

    [157]Mar 9, 2007
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    Thanks, Squint.....I saw that one too....but just a couple of clicks beyond that one, the viper is closer and more perpendicular to the camera....and the seat looks empty....
    Edited on 03/09/2007 7:43pm
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  • Avatar of copygeek

    copygeek

    [158]Mar 9, 2007
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    tripping82 wrote:
    copygeek wrote:

    It was mentioned as a theory in the episode thread about the Temple of the Five that it seems unlikely that the 13th Tribe would travel PAST the planet with the Temple, see the Supernova lightyears away, then BACKTRACK to the planet and build the Temple as a clue to the path to Earth. By that theory (which I agree with), it is more likely that the 13th Tribe CAME FROM Earth, passed the Supernova, then continued to the planet where they built the Temple, before heading to Kobol, and eventually settling permanently on the 12 Colonies.

    If they're reading this out of a book. Then whoever wrote the book must have been on the trip to Earth from the 12 Colonies, right? Then the question is how or who brought the book/scripture from Earth back to the 12 Colonies?

    Well, that's part of the point. The book HAS TO get back to the 12 Colonies. Since it seems too difficult to imagine that the 13th Tribe said, "Hey Joe, now that we've made it to Earth, could you take this book and go ALL THE WAY BACK and find the other 12 groups and give this to them? Thanks so much!" the more logical assumption would be that the book was written while on the journey FROM Earth TO Kobol and the 12 Colonies. Over the last four thousand years, the order of the book somehow must have gotten mixed up. 

    The order getting mixed up seems slightly more realistic when you consider religious texts on Earth getting edited and changed over the centuries. There are at least a dozen books that were taken out of the contemporary Bible because religious leaders over the last millenium thought the books were heretical or presented Christianity in a light that was different from the way they wanted it presented (such as books showing women's roles in the Church as being equal to those of men). The religious leaders of the 12 Colonies probably rearranged the book at some point so that it seemed to be telling a story of prophesy rather than a story of history. Prophesy would have more potential to effect people's lives than history, since clearly (here on Earth) people choose to be ignorant of history.

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    dj_osiris

    [159]Mar 10, 2007
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    I don't read any spoilers or watch promos. I am still shocked Kara is dead. Unbelievable. I think we are going to look back and remember this as the beginning of the end for BSG.
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    goodgirltv

    [160]Mar 10, 2007
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    alex20020712 wrote:
    ScnJedi wrote:
    Well, of course he's going to say that. He's not going to say "oh yeah, she's not permanently dead, we're bringing her back in the season 3 cliffhanger" is he?

    Apologies for the sarcasm.


    You were not listening very well. Moore called Katee Sackhoff, and "it was a difficult conversation." It did not sit well with her. The writers were shocked. The network had to be convinced. And so on. Would why everyone be so upset, if they were only going to make it look as if she was dead, and then bring her right back?

    Are you seriously suggesting Moore is just lying about all this, and setting up some kind of elaborate publicity stunt? What kind of credibility would he have left, afterwards? Absolutely none. No one would listen to him or believe him again.

    No, she is dead. Could they bring her back? Absolutely. I have already said that, but if she did come back, it would be under different circumstances. It would not be "oh, I was not really dead."


    Yeah, like as a Cylon!
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