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Discussion - "No Exit" (2/13/09) (spoilers)

How would you rate this episode?

  • Avatar of scififan12921

    scififan12921

    [61]Feb 14, 2009
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    AMAZING episode!! I was glad to see Boomer go against Cavil. Not much mention yet of what people think of Adama allowing Chief to use cylon tech to save Galactica.

    I think the original Daniel survived(Ellen says the copies were corrupted) and he was Starbuck's father. Because she is half cylon she was somehow resurrected. I also agree with the post about Sam-I don't think he's dead, I think he's rebooting the programming.

    Things are going to get mighty interesting from here, especially since there's a colony of cylons out there as well.

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  • Avatar of Conundrum1911

    Conundrum1911

    [62]Feb 14, 2009
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    MrBovineOrdure wrote:

    That post of the URL; http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=280 showing Kara Playing piano with someone we've not met yet.

    I think your right that that's probably Daniel. It would explain one thing hanging. Kara's resurrection.

    From the point where Ellen woke up to the point she escaped, there was no mention of resurecting Kara. Kavil did however mention a base where there's still resurrection technology. My guess is that's where Daniel is, he's the one who resurrected Kara and may be orchestrating things...

    Mr BO



    Could be...but one other thought just crossed my mind as well. Remember how it was said that the final 5 had a resurrection ship/plant in orbit of Earth at the time of the bombing? Well if Kira's viper crashed on earth, maybe she was automatically downloaded into "earth's" resurrection system and copied (remember resurrection requires proximity, hence why the resurrection ship was always jumping to stay in range). The only things this doesn't explain is how she could be downloaded if she isn't a "final 5", how she got a new viper (since that is colonial tech), or how that viper got home, since vipers don't have jump capability...
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  • Avatar of starwolf99

    starwolf99

    [63]Feb 14, 2009
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    For me, it was all about the following moments:

    * Ellen's resurrection scene: The range of emotions going from "OMG, I'M A CYLON" to "I'm THE Cylon". This is no longer the pathetic Lady Macbeth character you knew in earlier seasons. She's the queen. She's Mother Mary. Etc.

    * The conflicting emotions in Cavil. He's the Prodigal Son. He's Roy Batty.

    * The scene in which the Centurion hesitates to help Ellen up. It sees the horror of its Cylon claws and reshapes them to provide a tender hand.

    * You really didn't know what side Boomer was going to be on until you saw the Raptor.

    * Tyrol being the Chief again. He was always the Chief. Adama no longer cares about party affiliation. He just wants Galactica to survive for a little while longer.

    * Lee's confirmation of what some of us have been saying all along: The Fleet cannot identify itself as of The Colonies anymore. There are no Capricans or Sagittarians, etc.

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  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [64]Feb 14, 2009
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    ummhaniyyah wrote:
    What I got from this episode - please clarifications and corrections. I'm trying to piece things together: Hybrids - Anders said that the Cylons (Centaurians) had already got as far with creating humanoids as creating the hybrids when the Final Five came along. Daniel - He died. His fetus' amniotic fluid was poisoned and his DNA corrupted - so his fate would have been more final than boxing. 13th Tribe - They were all humanoid Cylons who had learned how to reproduce? Why did they kill one another? How did the nuclear Holocaust on earth happen? Cavil - He's been aware of the Cylons' origins all along but kept it hidden from the other humanoid Cylons and wiped the memories of the Final Five before boxing and then regenerating them on Earth. Yes, there is some creepy Oedipal stuff going on with him and Ellen. We know it is the same Cavil who slept with her on New Caprica because when she is naked and asks for clothes he tells her that "I've seen it all already anyway." He must have enjoyed degrading her - making her beg and offer sex for Tigh's life and in fact it must have been him who created the regenerated Ellen as a promiscuous lush - when we see the 'real' Ellen is a much more formidable person. Reproduction - Does anyone think that the models the Final Five created may have been made to only be able to reproduce with humans or with the Final Five so that they would be more likely to integrate? It was so sad to have Sam die.

    13th tribe- they built their own centurions and treated them terrible and as a result they rebelled like the 13th did on Kobol. They destroyed the planet in their fight against the 13th with Ellen, Tigh, Tory, Tyrol and Anders only survivors because of the reinvented resurrection tech. The whole reason they journeyed to the colonies was so as to warn the 12 colonies to not make the same mistake and to coexist and treat their AI well, but they arrived too late but were able to get them to call a truce.

    A fact i havent seen anyone else raise- John (aka No.1) must have also put the centurians inhibators in at same time he wiped minds of other 7 models and killed Final 5; because i HIGHLY doubt final 5 did it seeing whole point was to bring peace and understanding. Its also reason the John was so adament against removing their inhabitants

    Edited on 02/14/2009 10:08pm
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  • Avatar of anthem47

    anthem47

    [65]Feb 14, 2009
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    Regarding the picture at You Will Know The Truth (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=280), something about the composition seems very dreamlike, almost similar to the realm where Kara saw her Head Leoben. I wonder if the original Daniel model is her father, died in the destruction of the 12 Colonies, then...and I know this might be pushing the show into a more spiritual direction than it usually goes...Daniel started appearing to different characters from the afterlife, appearing to them in a form they would find comforting, appearing to Baltar as Six, to Six as Baltar, to Kara as Leoben, in an effort to 'push' events in the right direction. So the picture from YWKTT is Daniel appearing to her, maybe just after she finds out the truth, for a father-daughter chat (and a bit of piano playing, apparently =P ).

    This also links up nicely with the first clue at http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=10 the quote 'You have heard my voice countless times, yet you do not know my name'. I think this was originally interpreted to be about the Fifth, but might relate to the Head characters instead.

    Regarding the clues at YWKTT, am I right in thinking Kara at the piano, the quote, and this shot http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=200 (which pretty clearly has to come from the next episode) are the only clues left unseen?

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  • Avatar of Orionova2

    Orionova2

    [66]Feb 14, 2009
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    I like the idea of Daniel being Kara's father. It fits so well. I also like the idea that there's a ressurection station near earth (possibly the same one the final 5 used). I'm thinking that in the episodes to come, Kara will have to choose to unplug Anders from life support and he may ressurect there too (I'm just grasping at a thread there). It would also fit that Daniel was able to have a child since only the latest cylon versions are able to procreate (6's, 7's, and 8's). It would also explain this picture http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=50

    Also, Tigh HAS aged. I remember when Adama was shot and Tigh was in charge, he had flashbacks to when the two first met, and Tigh had more hair back then.

    Important unanswered questions:

    1) How did Kara get her Viper back

    2) How does Baltar Fit into all of this and why does he have a 'head' 6?

    3) How does 'hera' fit into all of this, and whats with the opera house?

    4) How did the President get her 'visions'? ...Do only cylons get organic memory transfer?

    I also found one of the clues very ominous: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=20.

    Especially the part where the cylons will 'join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end but a beggining.'

    Anders mentioned something about Galatica being a gift from the 'angels.'

    Edited on 02/14/2009 11:42pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of mialza

    mialza

    [67]Feb 15, 2009
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    I like the idea that Danial is somehow responsible for all of the "Head" people, but ultimately I think he is just dead. I've gotten to the point where I'm taking the most reasonable excuse for everything, and Danial being the Head people is too confusing. He needs to be involved with something important or else they never would have introduced him, and I think he is simply Starbucks father. I think the picture cited earlier is Starbuck seeing a head version of Danial who will guide her like the other Head people. She will find out the truth and then have a vision of her father, then he will tell her her detany. As I said before the only Starbuck related revelation I am waiting for is the whole she died at point a, her body ended up at point C, but her resurrected self showed up at point B in-between the two. Since this has no rational explanation I'm just going to wait for them to reveal it. I'm sure it will be worth it, and it is refreshing to not obsess over something for a change. I put all of my trust in the writers hands to adequately solve this.
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  • Avatar of Invader_of_53

    Invader_of_53

    [68]Feb 15, 2009
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    You know, there's a fair part of me that thinks there's nothing more to Daniel than that he's just dead.

    Thinking about it, I come to the conclusion that when all of the original Cylons numbers were finally provided and since the Final Five didn't have numerical designations based on their origins, they took the opportunity to fit in a tidbit of backstory to explain why there was no Number Seven.

    Looking back, I really don't think they had things quite so thought out when they introduced the concept of 12 humanoid copies in the miniseries. I think things were gradually fleshed out and by the time they conceived of the Final Five, there was already a Number Eight, so since there was going to be a gap somewhere, they just rolled with it until they saw a way fit to explain the absent model to the audience. I think it did that and give an insight into Number One's character.

    Until I see reason to think otherwise, that's the mindset I'm sticking with.

    Edited on 02/15/2009 3:03am
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  • Avatar of expatriot

    expatriot

    [69]Feb 15, 2009
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    MrBovineOrdure wrote:

    BUURRRRPPPP!!!!! Ahhhhh that was a good meal!

    Lots of candidates for Daniel. I was thinking six's baby.



    My thoughts exactly. I'm thinking Kara is some sort of representative of this One God, 'created' by the centurions !!
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  • Avatar of moviebuff82

    moviebuff82

    [70]Feb 15, 2009
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    The episode was great, I had only one problem, what the HELL is this 13th cylon bit. It makes perfect sense though because now that we know the 5 are the creators of the other humanoid cylons they wouldn't have numbers which means Sharon as #8 refers to the fact that eight models were made, so 13 is logical. It just seems too easy to throw another cylon in and make it turn out to be someone else we may have suspected to be in the final five.
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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [71]Feb 15, 2009
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    Conundrum1911 wrote:
    Well if Kira's viper crashed on earth, maybe she was automatically downloaded into "earth's" resurrection system and copied (remember resurrection requires proximity, hence why the resurrection ship was always jumping to stay in range). The only things this doesn't explain is how she could be downloaded if she isn't a "final 5", how she got a new viper (since that is colonial tech), or how that viper got home, since vipers don't have jump capability...

    Just a couple of thoughts on this; In the Mini-Series Lee Adama linked the jump drive of his Viper into another ship (I think it was Colonial One) in order to save it from the Cylon attack. I don't know if it was a MKII versus the MKI Vipers deployed by Galactica, and I can't remember if we've seen any Viper use a jump drive since that one scene but it is worth mentioning.

    The more I think about it the more it looks like Kara Thrace has some sort of link to Daniel. It's very possible that the original Daniel was the first cylon capable of procreating sexually with humans. The comment Ellen made about his passionate artistic personality makes me believe he was able to experience the same kind of deep emotional love that triggered the conception of Hera between Sharon and Karl Agathon. So Kara could be some sort of first hybrid unknown to all but the as yet to be introduced inhabitants of the the original resurrection ship, which would be BSG(2003)'s analogue the the Ship of Light from the original series.

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  • Avatar of Daxx00004

    Daxx00004

    [72]Feb 15, 2009
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    MichaudMR wrote:

    Conundrum1911 wrote:
    Well if Kira's viper crashed on earth, maybe she was automatically downloaded into "earth's" resurrection system and copied (remember resurrection requires proximity, hence why the resurrection ship was always jumping to stay in range). The only things this doesn't explain is how she could be downloaded if she isn't a "final 5", how she got a new viper (since that is colonial tech), or how that viper got home, since vipers don't have jump capability...

    Just a couple of thoughts on this; In the Mini-Series Lee Adama linked the jump drive of his Viper into another ship (I think it was Colonial One) in order to save it from the Cylon attack. I don't know if it was a MKII versus the MKI Vipers deployed by Galactica, and I can't remember if we've seen any Viper use a jump drive since that one scene but it is worth mentioning.

    The more I think about it the more it looks like Kara Thrace has some sort of link to Daniel. It's very possible that the original Daniel was the first cylon capable of procreating sexually with humans. The comment Ellen made about his passionate artistic personality makes me believe he was able to experience the same kind of deep emotional love that triggered the conception of Hera between Sharon and Karl Agathon. So Kara could be some sort of first hybrid unknown to all but the as yet to be introduced inhabitants of the the original resurrection ship, which would be BSG(2003)'s analogue the the Ship of Light from the original series.


    Ellen never said what happened to the resurrection ship they had on Earth. She never mentioned who or what ran the ship. It wouldn't have been just floating in space unmanned. I am assuming the final five had centurions loyal to them running the ship. But where is this ship now? Is that where Kara was resurrected? Did the centurions duplicate her ship and jump to the fleet to return her there? In the process making sure she could find her way to Earth by modifying the new ship and making her obsessed with finding Earth again? Not sure why Chief, Sam and Tigh suddenly "knew" there was something on the ship that would lead to Earth.
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  • Avatar of purplepuddle

    purplepuddle

    [73]Feb 15, 2009
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    Daniel could be two things - i.e. both Starbuck's father (or Baltar) and the "ghost in the machine".

    Although not explicitly stated, I assume there was an original undamaged prototype Daniel, for Ellen to have favoured and John to become jealous of. He could have either escaped to the colonies, or have been mind-wiped and put there like the five.

    Meanwhile a duplicate of his concious would have been waiting in the system, for download into the "copies" that never arrived. How it got out - maybe with help, over time by itself or perhaps sadist John might have found it funny to transfer the Daniel concious into the hybrids?

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  • Avatar of lunachan01

    lunachan01

    [74]Feb 15, 2009
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    My money is on that the resurrecton ship of the five is somewhere close to Earth and it was there that Kara was brought back from the dead. Remember Cavil said that Ellens laboratory still exists and thats were the Cylons were going before Ellen espcapes with Boomer. It think the final 3 episodes named DAybreak will be the fight for Ellens laboratory or the fight will be where is located and we get the answers to Karas resurrection.
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  • Avatar of Mangalore

    Mangalore

    [75]Feb 15, 2009
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    I think given Kara was described as having a destiny already by her own mother that she must have some link to Daniel and some stuff must have been known back then. I hope she's not Daniel himself

    Someone complained about Tigh being younger earlier but imo that can be easily explained with resurrection technology. The default procedure might be to resurrect a body at the age the last one died but given they have to grow that goo somewhere before implanting someone's memories you could reasonably expect it not farfetched to introduce the memories to a younger host body. Tigh - by coincident/fate - simply happens to be as old as he was when he first died.

    This is by the way what Wikipedia says about Daniel as an angel:
    Daniel (angel)... was the 7th Watcher of the 20 leaders of the 200 fallen angels that are mentioned in an ancient work called the Book of Enoch. Enoch lists him as the seventh angel who taught the signs of the sun. The name is translated by Michael Knibb as "God has judged".

    This might be a simple crossreference (the writers agreed what the seventh model is all about and someone found that the name Daniel is associated with an angel associated with the number. Fitting name when above connections about Kara are correct.
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  • Avatar of hazelnut144

    hazelnut144

    [76]Feb 15, 2009
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    RDM said a little bit in the podcast about Daniel. Apparently Daniel WILL be important in Caprica, so the Daniel Greystone theory is looking possible (just because it would seem somewhat confusing to have two Daniel's walking around) As for the whole 13 cylons thing, it was definitely not planned. From what I have been able to piece together, they always knew that Ellen was a cylon...I think they always knew she would be the final one revealed. But the whole idea of the Final Five didn't come into existance until after Sharon was assigned #8. So they always had it in the back of their mind that there probably would have to be a 13th. But the reason that six in the miniseries said that there were only 12 models, was because the 234568's knew that there were seven of them, and then the mysterious final five. They didn't know about Daniel ever having existed.
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  • Avatar of MrBovineOrdure

    MrBovineOrdure

    [77]Feb 15, 2009
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    On a different note... Lee is thinking of assembling a new quorum. Perhaps having a representative from each ship.

    There are 35 ships (Not counting the Galactica). They're going to need a bigger room on Colonial 1.

    Wonder if the Demetrius will have a representative? What flag would a sewage ship choose? How would their national anthem sound? Inquiring minds want to know!

    Mr BO

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  • Avatar of abelav78

    abelav78

    [78]Feb 15, 2009
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    seantuck wrote:
    ummhaniyyah wrote:
    It was so sad to have Sam die.
    I dont think Sam is dead...........it seems that at the moment he is in a very vegitative state, whether this is forever or for just the time being seeing as he just got done with a major surgery, I don't know. I hope not for long!

    He has no brain activity!! He´s in the matrix like Neo! haha Seriously a great episode and we got some answers. Lets see how everything develops. I do agree with some people who say Kara is the daughter of Daniel and somehow some of his knowledge or "abilities" passed on to her maybe she did ressurect in the facility Elen left on earth but still who built the clone ship she was piloting?. and Anders, could his mind transfered to that same facility now?

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  • Avatar of Eric10301

    Eric10301

    [79]Feb 15, 2009
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    I'm curious what happened the the cylon centurions that destroyed Earth and the final five fled from? It's possible they are the ones that cloned starbuck and sent her back to Galactica.
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  • Avatar of mortaza2

    mortaza2

    [80]Feb 16, 2009
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    Much information has been released on this episode about the cylons and so forth. But I still can't understand one thing. Are the final five humans or are they cylons themselves? If they are cylons, who created them?
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